Well deserved like, thanks for this review! I was looking for a budget friendly zigbee option, I couldn't come across a better resource. Exactly the info I needed!
Great overview. The one thing that is missing with all these valves is the link to an OpenTherm boiler control. The benefits of them are lost unless you have some smart method to send this info to your boiler. For those in apartments with always on heating supply, or city provided this is not an issue, but for those of us with our own high efficiency boiler we still need to control the actual supply of hot water to the radiator. This is where Tado has the advantage. Also, it would be useful to be able to link the valve to an external temperature source for more accurate room heating control.
I do have tado im by setu and it's using eBus connection with boiler. But check out Better thermostat integration - there is also one additional one that I haven't tested. It allows some intelligence that you usually pay to tado/nest/... on your local setup. Including external temp, heating calibration,...
Thank you alwys for the reviews you make, It has been a year since you posted this video, i wonder how long the batteries lasted. I have Moes old version and they are terrible, one of them lose power in only 4 days, the others last for about 3 weeks to one month before the low battery indicator shows-up.
Thank you for your comment. They lasted that heating season. I replaced them because I was doing some testing last summer not because they died but I needed full charge for testing. Unfortunately I had to abandon the testing number of cycles per charge and this is still something I want to do in future.
It's quieter than tado, not using proprietary protocol for communication and cloud is not needed. Other than that, in terms of performance, I haven't noticed any difference. Oh yeah, it has also "screen" rotation. I don't think I can do that on tado.
@@BeardedTinker thank you. Are there any use stats in the app to see how much energy one room uses (or how much time each radiator is open) compared to others? I saw Tado had this and found it very usefull for my use case.
@@muresansergiubohdan if you are using Sonoff app (eWeLink), I didn't see so many stats there as with tado. With Home Assistant integration and other sensors (for example meter or electricity) you cold potentially do that, but I haven't tried so far. But also tado stats are not as accurate as I would like. For example. for one of my room where there is a lot of heat loss, it shows constant heating for the room, even when temperature reaches or goes over required temp. Also boiler at that time so not heating. In stats it show as if boiler was running all the time. It actually makes educated guess for m3 or kWh of energy used when you enter total number from your meter. But it estimate, not something that it really tracks.
I love this showcase. I might buy couple of them around the house just because it does not make any noise. I only use the Aqara E1 Thermostat in my room but I know that other family members would not be able to sleep when the motor would run. The only thing that bothers me is that it doesn't have any child lock exposed like my Aqara. Hopefully it will be available in future and then it will be worth for me :)
Great I bought some sonoff smart TRV, but how do I control my combi boiler to work with them. How about a full installation guide and what thermostat is needed to control the combi boiler that works with the smart TRV
That is not that easy to answer. Are you using for example Home Assistant or something similar? If yes, you can get Zigbee thermostat to replace your existing thermostat. Or you could try using plain relay (wifi/zigbee) to control it. If you're using home assistant, you'll need automation that would when TRV triggers, also trigger that relay or smart thermostat. That's short answer. Hope it points you in right direction.
I know most TRV's temperature accuracy isn't good, I use Tado TRV's at the moment and each TRV is parried to a wall thermostat temperature accuracy. Is it possible to pair the Sonoff TRV to an external wall temperature sensor?
Depends on the setup you have. If you're using Home Assistant for example, you can use an integration called Better Thermostat that mimics the tado system. It has the option to pair external thermostats with valves
I bought some of these and have paired to Home Assistant. However I’ve no idea what the TRVZB auto : manual modes do. There’s nothing to describe the function in the Sonoff docs. If I set to auto by single press on top of TRVZB I notice that the controls in home assistant are disabled. Any help would be appreciated!
@@BeardedTinker OK, but I’m not sure what auto lock means. In auto mode there’s a small Clock symbol that lights up, which suggested there’s some time based control in auto mode. I could understand if Auto mode behaved like a normal mechanical TRV and the dial on TRVZB set the temperature, but dial seems to do nothing in auto mode. I’m confused
Does che valve has an offset parameter to adjust real temp vs. the one the valve mesure? I'm using moes valve with an automation that push a new offset value each time the vale temp or the separated ambient temp sensor change. It works great but moes valve are weak, on 2 radiator i need to make a reset each week to reset the closing point, already boke 2 caps changing battery, moreover seems they drain quite a lot of battery.
No, it's currently not exposed to Home Assistant. Did you try by any chance Better Thermostat (did video on it a year or more ago) - this will allow you to calibrate TRV without actully calibrating it - it uses external temperature sensor and also bunch of other stuff like learning the curve for heating the room.
Great video, thank you for that! I have bought these radiator valves and added them into homeassitant via Zigbee (Conbee II stick). I've added them into home assistant without a problem, but within a day they become unavailable. I have to add them all over again and then they work for a couple of hours and then the same problem occurs. Do you have any idea what I can do to fix this?
Really not sure - what software are you using? But it may be due to Conbee II or due to other routers on the network. These should be able to connect both directly and to routers. Check LQI - signal strength. That could also be issue.
Thanks for the review. I was wondering what your experience has been during the winter months. I'm thinking about installing some over the summer. (I'm using HA with Z2M)
I have them on test system, not as part of my standard heating environment. But performance there was really nice. Battery is still holding up. And I had 0 issues with connectivity
has anyone else had any noise issues? ive got three that ive fitted this week, 2 needing adaptors and 1 that fitted without. All 3 make the same loudness of motor noise as when you do the initial set up ("in" and "ad" flashing) every time they switch between heating and idle. I can probably live with it but on the hall way one but if i cant solve it it is too much for bedroom or my partners office and they will have to be removed. Ive tryed rechargable batteries of two diffetent brands and none rechargables and there is no difference in noise. any body have any ideas?
Thanks for the review. I had been waiting for some quiet TRVs, so ordered the bundle of six after watching this. Have to say I'm a little disappointed after fitting this weekend. Mine aren't silent and I can hear the motor on all of them. They aren't much quieter than the Aqara E1 I have. Hopefully won't be too loud for people to sleep, guess we'll see. Appreciate you can only review what you are sent, but I do wonder if you were sent a quieter unit to review.
@@BeardedTinker Regarding the noise level, did you mount the valve on a real radiator during the noise level test or just hold it in your hand as shown in the video? In my opinion, it makes a big difference to the volume whether the valve is operated with or without load.
@N-sx4pi you can't operate it without a valve (or can't finish the config procedure). It was mounted on a valve during recording and testing. But I've also just got a sound level meter and will in the new video compare that between all the valves I have.
I am also searching for a silent TRV, but these valves definitely make noise, which is frustrating because everything else about them is great. The quietest valve I've found is the TuYA TV02, but it is only ON or OFF (it also has some hysteresis issues that need a small HA script to get around). Still searching...
I bought Sonoff TRVZB thermostatic radiator valves after watching your video. I tried to paired them with a dongle of the same brand via Zigbee2mqtt Unfortunately I have a problem, they do not want to enter pairing mode and remain blocked with an alternation of “FA” codes " and “12”. I tried a factory reset but I’m still stuck on this configuration. Has anyone had the same setbacks?
Did you first install them on valves or are you trying to pair them first? They need to be installed on the Radiator and after that pairing should work.
@@kaandurgut these are first ones I didn't try and test with rechargeable batteries. But actually, that's problem with a lot of devices. Normal batteries are 1.5V while rechargeable are around 1.2V . So instead of 4.5V with 3 AA batteries, device ends with 3.6V For some, it may not be the issue, for others it can as it's significant voltage drop. That's not first device I've seen that has this problem, but first TRV I've seen so far.
Hi, apologies if you have answered this, but I can't see your long term test video (as referenced in the video). Has that been published? If so, could you share the link, please? Please excuse me if it is there and I can't find it. Keep up the great work, you have thought me so much already.
@@BeardedTinker Thanks for the reply. That's very interesting that some have died, so it'll make the review very informative and helpful for all of us viewers. Thank you.
As you enter winter, we enter summer and I start looking at new cooling ideas :). Hydronic heating is not common in Australia, but I still like watchign these sort of videos. I wonder what mechanism this valve uses.... Maybe it is not using a motor? I think a thermostatic valve needs to open and close slowly so you don't get sudden pressure changes in the system and avoid noise from the pipes.
That's correct - called something like water hammer - it can be dangerous. I do believe it's using motor but it is really silent. Hydronic heating is what we actually have (but it's not called that way). We heat water in pipes with gas and circulate it in radiators (or underfloor pipes).
Hello, thank you for the video. Can you tell me please is it possible to add independent temperature sensor to this TRV in Home Assistant and is it possible to add schedule in HA? I am quite new to this, just try to understand, which TRV is better for me
Check out Better Thermostat in HACS (I did video on it too). It allows you to add a lot more than just external thermostat for easier and more comfortable temperature control. Schedule can be done but you need calendar for it or just create automation that get triggered at specific times to set temperature. (plus for example your location to stop heating if not at home).
Nice video and very informative. Can you set the requested roomtemperature, based on specific time in a HA automation if the TRV is paired with ZHA? I only see switch on/off and 'change HVAC modus' (off/heat) as actions to choose from.
Not directly - and though I do have GHome device, I've never created any routine on them as I use Home Assistant for that - so that even when Google bricks devices and kills support, they still work, locally. But you could try using Sonoff him with sonoff app to expose devices to Google Home
Yes (if we are talking about one hooked up to boiler/heater?). I have that setup. And BTW (spoiler) - not sure when but looks like they'll be releasing one later this year, probably Q3/Q4.
The bigger question is whether this valve is just az ON/OFF valve, or is it capable of setting the valve to any position in order the regulate the heating more efficiently.
www.zigbee2mqtt.io/devices/TRVZB.html#valve-opening-degree-numeric Although this all depends if you have constant heating (utility company providing hot water) or not. If not, there is no need actually to got for anything besides 0/100% as it will command boiler to stop heating and it will close the valve. To have ANY effect on energy used to heat, you would need to have smart thermostat too with eBUS connection to boiler to also regulate how much it needs to heat the water inside the system, etc.
@@BeardedTinker Well if you own a house and can control your heater, and have a perfectly tuned system than you don't really need a thermostatic valve. You need a thermostatic valve if you want a higher temp in the baby's room for example, or you live in an apartment, where you have a central system, and everybody needs to regulate themselves how much heating they want in each apartment/room. For these cases you definitely need a proper thermostatic valve, not just an on/off thing.
Thanks for the video. Question, have you been able to get these to work with the SMLIGHT SLZB-06M and Zigbee2MQTT? I installed one today and it says "unsupported" after the pairing. Can't get any further.
I wish these were Z-Wave, but if they were, they wouldn't cost $26 I guess. These are clearly the best choice I've spotted so far, time to buy a dozen or so.
Hi mate! I'm just wondering - in connection to not being able to control valve position in % - how can it be controlled by other temperature sensor? For example HASS automation - open valve 100% if temp for other room sensor is below 21 degree? If it's not possible then we will need some fancy mapping if even possible. Also, I don't have radiators but underfloor heating with manifolds, wondering if I can replace dumb flow controling "rotameters" with smart TRV's (27$ for Zigbee, OMG so cheap!!)
Hey! That's an awesome question. I've talked a bit about this in few videos and streams - but that's not easy. If temperature is measured by TRV - it just opens valve 100% and when it reaches desired temperature, it closes the valve. This is the most simple but also dumb solution. Problem with external temperature sensors is that it takes time for heat from radiator to reach it - so you may have overshoot temperature near radiator by the time sensor detects desired temp. There is HACS integration Better Thermostat - it among other things has temperature calibration, where it learns a bit more about your heating by using sensor data and with this, it can close valve before temperature reaches desired one, if it knows that residual heat from radiator (floor) will keep increasing room temperature. 3D printers works like that, also Tado and other "commercial" solution for heating. Sorry for long post :) Hope it helped and pointed you where to look ;)
@@BeardedTinker Radiator is the easy one to control I think with this TRV (but I'd dispute if temperature sensor in valve, so close to radiator gives you true info about ambient room temperature!). With underfloor heating you have long system "delay" because first system has to heat properly floor which is a lot of concrete-like material. Not sure if better thermostat does support such a heating system with some manually controlled delay value or it calculates some parameters together like external temp + time of valve on/off + temperature sensor hysteresis and then learns how to properly control room temp , I have to check doc's ;) 1st - it seems like I need dumb valve controlled by ext temperature sensor as for me there is no point to have one with built in thermometer 2nd - calculate delays by observation how fast the room reacts to full valve open or close (obviously if I'll get my hands on some dumb valve or commercial one with more control) A-ny-way: great video as usual, real pleasure to watch!!
Check Better thermostat documentation - I think this is something that can help you there. Of course, valves for underfloor heating is a different beast, but in reality it's the same. You never have same temperature in the room (unless it's micro room) on two different measuring spots. Learning heating curve for space and heat source is really a must for those applications as it knows when to start or stop flow of water to get temperature you want.
I also have floor heating. I would also like to know if there is a valve, where you can set the position of the valve. Obviously you don't change it to often, but sometimes my wife wants a room to be a little warmer than the other. Did you find a solution for this?
Have you disassembled these heads and can you confirm whether they have feedback (optical encoder etc.) of the position of the pushing pin? I have Moes heads (in z2m visible as TS0601) and they are terrible. They have no feedback and overregulate the temperature in the rooms by 2 degrees Celsius. They also show the opening degree over the entire operating range, even though the valve travel range is a half of operating range of the head.
Haven't disassembled it - so can't tell you if there is a feedback sensor or not. As far as over-regulating temperature in room. Where are you measuring the temperature? Try Better Thermostat form HACS and pair Moes valve with external temperature sensor. It should learn heating curve for room and you should see less of those problems.
When smart TRVs are installed they usually probe for maximum and minimum position of the pin. My Danfoss LC13s certainly do that. Hopefully, they then set/report the percentage across that probed range. I think they usually have a servo style feedback mechanism (a potentiometer, or an optical or hall effect sensor maybe) that senses position. If these SONOFFs are on/off only, they don't need that sensor. If that is the case, that explains why they are so cheap but the lack of modulation makes them a poor choice for fine-grained temperature regulation.
I too have bought the Sonoff TRV and would be great to see you Home Assistant automation setup for these devices. Also have you implemented a stand alone smart screen to allow family members to change the heating temp without the need to be a home assistant guru ?
Right now this isn't supported in deConz. Tested it. Maybe I will swap the stack to ZHA. Also, you can hear them very clearly! They sound similar to a vibrating phone when moving the valve. Not sure how one can miss that sound, it's really rather loud. And they seem to be 100%/0%, but nothing in between. I think I will return them, as a mechanical device clearly is better in regulation. 2-Point regulation just does not cut it for heating, P or even PI is the minimum (which even 50 year old mechanical devices do)
Hi, Greetings from Slovenia. Very nice introduction of Sonoff valve. I'm curently using custom integration better termostat in HA and Moes valves. I wonder, if Sonoff valve would be better choise with this integration, what do you think? Bok brate :)
Hej, bok! If it ain't broken, don't fix it :) Not really sure. While Sonoff ones are newer, I don't think Moes are bad ones. Also, Moes has a lot of types of valves, so the question, which one do you have. If it's the one I've done video 2-3 years ago, that's maybe best one out of all the Moes had so far. So - not sure you should need to go and changed them.
I @@BeardedTinker I have model BRT-100, it's ok but... :), they dont have off option and from my opinion they are not in best relation with integration of better termostat. AlsoI agree with you, if it ain't broken just leve it as it is. But I'm looking for perfection ;) Did you maybe test does two valves with this integration and what is your opinion which is best option for this integration?
Hey BeardedTinker, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but do I need to buy a Sonoff Zigbee Bridge for the TRVZB to get all the functions, or is Sonoff Zigbee Dongle Plus and ZHA enough? Also I think for my usecase I need 4 TRV instead of 1. I have 2 rooms that i want to control: Livingroom/kitchen (3 radiators) and Home office (1 radiator). If I got home in the evening and only will be in the office I want to heat the office alone, but since the Nest Thermostat is in the Livingroom, I will always need to heat the Livingroom as well if I only have 1 TRV in my house. Is this true? Thanks in advance for the help!
As stated in video, it can work with ZHA - so if you already have a stick there, you should be good to go. As for scenario, you would need to create script or automation that triggers Nest thermostat to start heating when any of the valves requests heat, and to stop Nest heating when TRV's don't need heating anymore. Check Better Thermostat HACS integration as this may help you. And that should solve part of the automation. Other one of course is to decided how the system will know what room it needs to heat - based on presence sensor, time schedule or just switch you want to use. One additional recommendation from me - create a fail-safe - if for example, TRV (any) is in heating state for 90 minutes, send notification to mobile phone and/or send Nest command to stop heating. To prevent any possible overheating situations.
@@BeardedTinker thanks for the elaboration! I found out in the meantime that I cannot use TRV's on my radiators yet, since it are standard radiator valves, and not thermostatic valves. In the documentation I mostly see online, it does not seem that standard, but it still is in 1998 'social rent houses' I found out. The fact is, the social renting company needs to place thermostatic valves before this solution comes into play, unfortunately. I am not sure if they want to invest in that, but on the other hand, in the Netherlands measures involving saving the environment/sustainability are highly subsidised, so I gave it a try and asked if the social renting company wants to invest in thermostatic valves :) If positive, I will buy some Sonoff TRV's, since it seems to be the best buy, especially when you're running HA with ZHA already :) I was positively surprised about it is possible to automate the Nest Thermostat (Nest E) this much, since it did not feel as a super smart thermostat in my opinion, although it really helps to turn it automatically off when I forhget when leaving the house, and I can turn in off in my bed and not have to go downstairs to check again... Thanks for the advice, hope it works out for me!
Concerning valve position... some heating tubes resonate (and it can be VERY noisy) when the water is flowing at a certain speed. :( Easiest solution is if you do not fully open the valve. A bit slower heating, but at least you can sleep at night :)
I'll be doing some testing on 6-7 various valves to see how they work, noise levels etc. But yes, unfortunately resonating tubes or radiators is something valve can't fix easily.
Hey @beardedtinker, love your channel and you have really helped me on my HA journey. One (probably stupid!) question I have always wondered on these valves. How does the valve control the thermostat, I have a smart (nest) heating but it is not always on, and triggers all radiators to turn on. How does the valve trigger the heater?
That's not that easy to explain, but yes, you do need a smart thermostat for that. Nest should probably do, but I have 0 experience with it. It should look like this - TRV requests the heat (turns to heating state). Automation than triggers thermostat (for example, Nest, tado, or any smart Tuya or similar wall thermostat) to turn on. Same, when TRV finishes heating cycle and changes to idle/off state, automation should trigger end issue same command to thermostat on the wall. Some have used simple Shelly relays for that, but IMHO, that's bad idea - it should work, but there are not as many fail-safes it should have (stuck open etc). Hope I managed to explain this - tried to be as short as I can. :)
@@BeardedTinker thanks for the response. Off the back of that my head is trying to get around the logic required to isolate and only turn on certain valves when required. The use case is that you only want one room to be warmer. To me that seems as if you would need to reduce the temperature on all of the tvrs I'll put them into a state of idle. I guess the default position on tvrs is that they all come on because the valve is open and as soon as the room reaches that temperature they will turn off. Not your problem but I wonder how others have got around this. I will hunt the blueprints in HA maybe to see what exists. Thanks again
I think it's the opposite. It's off by default, but please don't quote me on that. It only opens when it needs to heat, so they are keeping valves closed if it's not required to heat the room.
Can you please help me? I have 5 of these TRV and a a nest thermostat for the boiler. I am struggling to make each TRV call heating from the nest thermostat and only turn on the trv calling heat to warm any room that is below 16.4°C 2nd Automation will be to turn of any TRV in a room that has reached 18.8°C alias: Turn on heating if any radiatos calls for heat description: "" trigger: - platform: template value_template: >- {% set therms = [ states.climate.my_bedroom_heater, states.climate.isabelle_s_bedroom_heater, states.climate.olivia_s_bedroom_heater, states.climate.living_room_heater, ] %} {% set climates = namespace(under= [ ]) %} {% for therm in therms %} {% if therm.attributes.current_temperature < therm.attributes.temperature %} {% set climates.under = climates.under + [ therm.entity_id ] %} {% endif %} {% endfor %} {{ climates.under | length > 0 }} condition: - condition: state entity_id: climate.living_room attribute: hvac_action state: "off" action: - service: climate.set_temperature target: entity_id: climate.living_room data: hvac_mode: heat temperature: 16.4 mode: single alias: Turn on heating if any radiator calls for heat description: "" trigger: - platform: template value_template: >- {% set therms = [ states.climate.my_bedroom_heater, states.climate.isabelle_s_bedroom_heater, states.climate.olivia_s_bedroom_heater, states.climate.living_room_heater, ] %} {% set climates = namespace(under= [ ]) %} {% for therm in therms %} {% if therm.attributes.current_temperature < therm.attributes.temperature %} {% set climates.under = climates.under + [ therm.entity_id ] %} {% endif %} {% endfor %} {{ climates.under | length > 0 }} condition: - condition: state entity_id: climate.living_room attribute: hvac_action state: "off" action: - service: climate.set_temperature target: entity_id: climate.living_room data: hvac_mode: heat temperature: 18.8 mode: single
Does this thermostat automatically "exercise" the valves like say Danfoss does? I think its an important feature - but I cannot find the data to support it. In advance thanks for your reply. PS Good video!
Not that I know of - I haven't seen that in documentation. But that also shouldn't be a problem - create automation if valve hasn't moved in 10 or 30 days, open and close it to prevent calcification.
@@BeardedTinkerthat a good idea; so simply have an automated setup where temp is reduced to lowest temp. .. and then highest. Maybe repeat it a couple of times. Thank you for video and hint. Appreicated.
As I've answered on another of your comments - I've not teste these ones with 3 AA rechargeable batteries as I didn't have any spare or fully charged and available when I was testing. But it can be issue - for example tado reports low batteries on fully charged rechargeable batteries - due to big difference in voltage between normal (1.5V) and rechargeable (1.2V)
@@SmileyVideography This is good news, I don't want to harm the environment or my pocket, thank you very much for your answer, my friend. greetings from Turkey.
@@BeardedTinker I only have the thermostat head for the radiator. From what I've read, it can't be added to the application only it needs something Gateway Hub Is it true?? Because only the thermostat head does not find any application.
@@adriantunaru5877 if you have only thermostat, you'll need additional device/hub from Sonoff to connect it to Google system. This one is not directly support via Zigbee protocol on Google devices.
I just switched to a Tado thermostat, thanks to your amazing videos. And seeing this now, i also want to order these 😂. A question i have, is it possible to use them with a Tado thermostat via Home assistant?
It should be possible. You just need to create automation that would trigger tado to on state when TRV gets in heating state.Not 100% sure, but I think again, Better Thermostat can help you with that too.
Hi. I just bought 4 units of Sonoff TRVZB's. You say in your video and also record that it is silent when closing and opening. But my units do a loud bzzz sound when closing or opening the valve. I tried to open and close when NOT on the radiator so it doesnt resonate but its the same problem. Did i get faulty units? Its the same sound as here: ua-cam.com/video/GpaYHzFWR5s/v-deo.html
Not really sure - you've made second post about sound I've seen. Mine is still very quiet. I'll be getting my hands soon on sound measuring device and will test all of them again and measure sound level.
Too bad it does not have manual control of valve, even just 0/100% like in some other TRVs (mine GTZ04) :/ I do not like to use temperature controller from device itself because it is as much inacurrate as with normal valve. I could switch just for lower noise lever, but can't :(
Why don't you try Better Thermostat (did video on it about a year ago) and use (current) valve with that. It nicely ties TRVs with extermal temperature sensors and also uses learning curve to figure how your rooms are heating up. As for the valve %, you shouldn't care about valve state at the end - if everything works as it should, it should be handled automatically. I have tado working for years now and only important thing is - does it heat/open TRV when it needs.
Your pricing of the tado TRV's was slightly misleading, the price you showed was for a starter kit, including a bridge. But even so, they are more expensive.
Check clip again, price of single valve was also on the same page. - Still about 3 times the price of this one. But you do need bridge for it to work as it's proprietary protocol..
The Sonoff TRVZB is just as noisy as Shelly TRV and Danfoss Living, so it it is properly not better than other TRV's Also the Sonoff TRVZB don't change the valve position, it is only ON or OFF, which is no good if you want a stabil temperature and it also uses a lot more power from the batteries. If TRVZB just would ajust the valve position instead of ON/OFF then it would properly be the best TRV I have tried.
Are you sure the noise is not from the valve? Also radiators can sometimes amplify the sound level. As for on/off - yes. If you are using modern eBus controlled heating system, it can bring much more savings than those that keep valves open all the time, no matter if 10% or 90%. On the other hand, if you have a utility company supplying hot water for heating, then these are not suitable for that case. It depends on your setup and system.
@@BeardedTinker Yes, the noise comes from the valve. Shelly and Danfoss Living TRVs on the same radiator makes the same sound level when the valve is moving.
Is it valve sound or sound amplification coming from radiator? When you fit it on valve but not on radiator, it's silent. When on radiator, depending on what type it is, does it have air inside and how it's mounted, it can resonate the motor sound.
Does any valve have options to only open it to a certain position? AliExpress has these dummy batteries and one real one that is connected with a wire to a USB plug - so you can replace your batteries with a power adapter. Works great, the only downside that you have to make a small hole for the wire and you obviously need a power outlet. But you save three AA batteries.
Just to add something. Don't buy trv's with only 25% or 50% position control. Almost always this means on/off control in practice. Use 5% precision trv's.
@@BeardedTinker By having control I don't mean customer to force the valve at precise position. As a customer I need feedback for the position. Without knowing the position there is no way to understand whether there is a kind of algorithm implemented in TRV for temperature control. ON/OFF valves for heating systems is almost pointless if the heater itself needs time to follow the water volume changes. In many systems this may lead to over-regulation. For some reason the manufacturers don't give an information how precise is the position control that is implemented. Regarding the 25% and 50% . Buying TRV coupled with valve itself that comes from the same manufacturer is vary rare. Initial setups of TRV gives information for the two endpoints but if movement is not precise (5% for example) very often 25% open the valve fully or too much - same as on/off. I am using smart TRVs for 3 years. The ones with 5% are regulating fine. But mine are very noisy. The others (25%) I am going to change in few weeks because they are acting as on/off. Actually they are quiet. Now I am waiting for TRVs that are described to have PID regulator implemented and are very quiet... But who knows. I am not a blogger or vlogger or whatever :) I participate in discussions very rare as this needs a lot of knowledge. But I am always not happy when manufacturers or advertisers or whoever don't give enough information regarding the product presented. For example ON/OFF valve is the easiest thing in the world... Having tons of options (weekly, daily programming, open door detection et cetera ) in most cases are 100% unusable. What if door for opened for 15 minute for example.... radiator will stop... good... and what after that... more energy to heat it again... so... where is the balance... OK, if this does not bothering me - I don't care :) but the most important things are missing from presentation of the products. Sorry for bothering you. And sorry if my bad English makes me looks like unmannerly person... This is another reason I don't participate in forums :)
Thank you for awesome comment and time to write it - really appreciate it! You are right, but, you really don't need it at the end. Most of professional (let's pretend those are close heating systems like tado) do that in backend (cloud for example), where they learn how your system works. They take your location, current outside temperature, time it takes to reach desired temperature, time it takes to cool down the space etc and create PID for your home or room (depends if it's just thermostat or TRVs). Others (stand alone valves) use simple math - open valve to reach temperature and close valve when close, at or over desired temperature. HA has nice (HACS) integration that tries to mimic commercial solutions, locally - Better Thermostat - it does most of the things it should - use alternative temp sensor, outside temperature sensors, door window sensor, to better heat the space. But, also you have to take a look at boilers (gas) - modern one, with eBUS/OpenTherm control. They are the ones that regulate the temperature and not valves/TRVs. For example, when my kids room needs to heat from 20.5 to 22.0 and outside temp is 19oC, it will request heat - 13% and that will be enough to heat the room while using only 13% of energy. (there are additional logics here for example, if it will be sunny, don't heat to 22, instead heat to 21.5 as room wil be heated by sun). Past are the times when boilers had just on/off state using as much gas as they could. That's why I said you don't need to care about valve position, as it needs to open to max when there is call to heat, as boiler is providing heat to that specific room (and maybe others that don't have smart TRVs) - and it will stop when room temperature is reached (or almost reached). BUT - on with my question. I've tested so far 6 different valves. Some report state, most don't but I haven't found any that would allow you to control them. Also looked at specs for others that I didn't test and still couldn't find them. Back to TRVs - don't expect to much from them - they are dumb valves, with very little logic on them. They need some kind of backend system to give them brain. And this is where you should (IMHO) focus your attention, as it should learn about you, your home - and give you always pleasant home. Again, thank you very much for your comment!!!
@@BeardedTinker How is the return temp on the radiator with this system? I am afraid that a fully open/closed thermostat will increase return temp. Can you elaborate on this? The reason I ask is, that I will be charged a fee (% of my heating expense) by my district heating, if I do not cool down the return temp. To desired levels (at least 28° celsius)
@@SsCLIQUE that's a different problem. It will completely shut off the valve, so everything will bypass the radiator and yes, your return temp will be too high. The only way for this to "work" is to have some radiators open while 1 or 2 have TRV to control the temp.
I just spent my money on the Aqara brand TRV and the Temperature and Humidity Sensor. Not impressed with the temperature accuracy of those, 2.5C higher than everything else.
@@BeardedTinker I had to come back to apologies to Aqara, checked them with two different 2 point calibrated thermometers. The five devices differ by 0.1C. The other devices are the temperature sensors in the Philips Hue motion senor and the worst reads 3C under. This is the one that told me my office was 29C this summer.
Hey, don't want to be a D.... but why you try to overcomplicate the test setup ?! just send an open command, next minute send a close command. A minute shall be enough to fully close / open the valve - and you will get 1440 cycles per day, which should be pretty good indication.
Excellent question - I want to measure and track close/open state - that way I can be sure that commands are received and carried out. Also this helps with determining the speed of the valve and also battery longevity.
@@BeardedTinker Weeeellll, in software circles we call it "overthinking" ;) But on serious note your valve after finishes it's movement it updates it's status to the zigbee coordinator as open / close (or idle / heating ) - this could be a basis for measurement. And thanks for the vid, I did buy two noname brands from china hoping that those will replace my tado, but those were loud as heck. Sonoff arrived today for testing and IT IS QUIET ! Actually less audible than tado!
Don't buy trv's without position control and without some advanced regulation. PID for example. If the trv is only on/off ....don't use it in heating system that is not constant on or constant off.
@@lukasskymuh5910 I have 2 types of TRVs. Now I am waiting one more (may be next week I'll have it). All are relatively cheap (approx. EUR 30). First type I got is wit 5% valve control and the other is with 25% and actually works as ON/OFF (I don't know whether some algorithm is implemented on it because in my case it works as ON/OFF). I'll try to find the exact models (Home Assistant recognize them as TS0601 (5%) and BRT-100-TRV (25%) but I guess TS0601 is very common and many models are recognized as TS0601). The one I am waiting for is TRV602. I am satisfied by the temp regulation with TS0601 but my model is old and I can't find it anymore. The problem with my model is that they are a little but noisy and fragile. For 2 years I changed 2 pcs and now 3rd is waiting to be changed. There are plenty of TS0601 but the with different shape and mechanics and I don;t know how they will behave. BRT-100-TRV is less noisy. I got it for 1 year and for until now I don find problem with mechanics. But I am not satisfied from temp regulation with it. I'll place a post after I receive the new one and after I find the exact models. I'll find a way to show you graphics how temperature is regulated by both types TRVs I got. I believe for small systems ( mine has 8 radiators ) smooth control is very important and ON/OFF TRVs are not suitable. Even for large systems this may be a problem but there is less chance many radiators will be closed/opened more or less simultaneously .
Doesn't look like it - GTZ looks like most of Tuya based TRVs, like ones from Moes and others that use Tuya web services. And it also looks like GTZ is some regional only TRV not available in a lot of areas. Just check display, it's same as Moes display on TRV.
Super useful, thank you. Great to know there's a quite / silent Zigbee TRV option. I have two on their way to test!
Great to hear!
How did the testing go? thanks
Well deserved like, thanks for this review! I was looking for a budget friendly zigbee option, I couldn't come across a better resource. Exactly the info I needed!
Hello, this is a very nice update for TRV, and more features have emerged for mqqt.
Great overview. The one thing that is missing with all these valves is the link to an OpenTherm boiler control. The benefits of them are lost unless you have some smart method to send this info to your boiler. For those in apartments with always on heating supply, or city provided this is not an issue, but for those of us with our own high efficiency boiler we still need to control the actual supply of hot water to the radiator. This is where Tado has the advantage. Also, it would be useful to be able to link the valve to an external temperature source for more accurate room heating control.
I do have tado im by setu and it's using eBus connection with boiler. But check out Better thermostat integration - there is also one additional one that I haven't tested. It allows some intelligence that you usually pay to tado/nest/... on your local setup. Including external temp, heating calibration,...
Always very usefull video! Thanks a lot.
Glad to hear that!
Thank you alwys for the reviews you make, It has been a year since you posted this video, i wonder how long the batteries lasted. I have Moes old version and they are terrible, one of them lose power in only 4 days, the others last for about 3 weeks to one month before the low battery indicator shows-up.
Thank you for your comment. They lasted that heating season. I replaced them because I was doing some testing last summer not because they died but I needed full charge for testing. Unfortunately I had to abandon the testing number of cycles per charge and this is still something I want to do in future.
How does this compare to the Tado radiator valves?
It's quieter than tado, not using proprietary protocol for communication and cloud is not needed. Other than that, in terms of performance, I haven't noticed any difference. Oh yeah, it has also "screen" rotation. I don't think I can do that on tado.
@@BeardedTinker thank you. Are there any use stats in the app to see how much energy one room uses (or how much time each radiator is open) compared to others? I saw Tado had this and found it very usefull for my use case.
@@muresansergiubohdan if you are using Sonoff app (eWeLink), I didn't see so many stats there as with tado. With Home Assistant integration and other sensors (for example meter or electricity) you cold potentially do that, but I haven't tried so far.
But also tado stats are not as accurate as I would like. For example. for one of my room where there is a lot of heat loss, it shows constant heating for the room, even when temperature reaches or goes over required temp. Also boiler at that time so not heating. In stats it show as if boiler was running all the time. It actually makes educated guess for m3 or kWh of energy used when you enter total number from your meter. But it estimate, not something that it really tracks.
I love this showcase. I might buy couple of them around the house just because it does not make any noise. I only use the Aqara E1 Thermostat in my room but I know that other family members would not be able to sleep when the motor would run.
The only thing that bothers me is that it doesn't have any child lock exposed like my Aqara. Hopefully it will be available in future and then it will be worth for me :)
As an entity - yeah, it's not available in HA (it is if I remember in eWeLink app, but, we don't use that ;) ) Thanks for th comment!!!
Great I bought some sonoff smart TRV, but how do I control my combi boiler to work with them. How about a full installation guide and what thermostat is needed to control the combi boiler that works with the smart TRV
That is not that easy to answer. Are you using for example Home Assistant or something similar? If yes, you can get Zigbee thermostat to replace your existing thermostat. Or you could try using plain relay (wifi/zigbee) to control it.
If you're using home assistant, you'll need automation that would when TRV triggers, also trigger that relay or smart thermostat. That's short answer. Hope it points you in right direction.
I know most TRV's temperature accuracy isn't good, I use Tado TRV's at the moment and each TRV is parried to a wall thermostat temperature accuracy. Is it possible to pair the Sonoff TRV to an external wall temperature sensor?
Depends on the setup you have. If you're using Home Assistant for example, you can use an integration called Better Thermostat that mimics the tado system.
It has the option to pair external thermostats with valves
@@BeardedTinker I use home assistant will look at better integration something I wasn't aware of.
Check in HACS - better-thermostat.org/
Hello, does anyone know if the white led can be turned off? I dont like to have many lights in the room during sleeptime :(
On valve? I haven't found a way...
I bought some of these and have paired to Home Assistant. However I’ve no idea what the TRVZB auto : manual modes do. There’s nothing to describe the function in the Sonoff docs. If I set to auto by single press on top of TRVZB I notice that the controls in home assistant are disabled. Any help would be appreciated!
If not mistaken, these are for auto lock.
@@BeardedTinker OK, but I’m not sure what auto lock means. In auto mode there’s a small Clock symbol that lights up, which suggested there’s some time based control in auto mode. I could understand if Auto mode behaved like a normal mechanical TRV and the dial on TRVZB set the temperature, but dial seems to do nothing in auto mode. I’m confused
Does che valve has an offset parameter to adjust real temp vs. the one the valve mesure? I'm using moes valve with an automation that push a new offset value each time the vale temp or the separated ambient temp sensor change. It works great but moes valve are weak, on 2 radiator i need to make a reset each week to reset the closing point, already boke 2 caps changing battery, moreover seems they drain quite a lot of battery.
No, it's currently not exposed to Home Assistant. Did you try by any chance Better Thermostat (did video on it a year or more ago) - this will allow you to calibrate TRV without actully calibrating it - it uses external temperature sensor and also bunch of other stuff like learning the curve for heating the room.
Great video, thank you for that!
I have bought these radiator valves and added them into homeassitant via Zigbee (Conbee II stick). I've added them into home assistant without a problem, but within a day they become unavailable. I have to add them all over again and then they work for a couple of hours and then the same problem occurs. Do you have any idea what I can do to fix this?
Really not sure - what software are you using? But it may be due to Conbee II or due to other routers on the network. These should be able to connect both directly and to routers. Check LQI - signal strength. That could also be issue.
Hi! Can i connect this smart valve to my Mi smarthome hub (v1)? Thanks!
I would say no, but haven't tested it.
No, you can connect to XiaoMi Multi-Mode Gateway on Home Assistant when set it to ZHA mode.
But not when using with Aqara app without HA?
Thanks for the review. I was wondering what your experience has been during the winter months. I'm thinking about installing some over the summer. (I'm using HA with Z2M)
I have them on test system, not as part of my standard heating environment. But performance there was really nice. Battery is still holding up. And I had 0 issues with connectivity
has anyone else had any noise issues?
ive got three that ive fitted this week, 2 needing adaptors and 1 that fitted without. All 3 make the same loudness of motor noise as when you do the initial set up ("in" and "ad" flashing) every time they switch between heating and idle.
I can probably live with it but on the hall way one but if i cant solve it it is too much for bedroom or my partners office and they will have to be removed.
Ive tryed rechargable batteries of two diffetent brands and none rechargables and there is no difference in noise.
any body have any ideas?
Awesome video, thanks!
Thank you!!!!
Thanks for the review. I had been waiting for some quiet TRVs, so ordered the bundle of six after watching this. Have to say I'm a little disappointed after fitting this weekend. Mine aren't silent and I can hear the motor on all of them. They aren't much quieter than the Aqara E1 I have. Hopefully won't be too loud for people to sleep, guess we'll see. Appreciate you can only review what you are sent, but I do wonder if you were sent a quieter unit to review.
Sorry to hear this. While some companies do sometimes send rigged review units. not sure that this was the case here. Or I hope that's not the case.
@@BeardedTinker Regarding the noise level, did you mount the valve on a real radiator during the noise level test or just hold it in your hand as shown in the video? In my opinion, it makes a big difference to the volume whether the valve is operated with or without load.
@N-sx4pi you can't operate it without a valve (or can't finish the config procedure). It was mounted on a valve during recording and testing. But I've also just got a sound level meter and will in the new video compare that between all the valves I have.
I am also searching for a silent TRV, but these valves definitely make noise, which is frustrating because everything else about them is great. The quietest valve I've found is the TuYA TV02, but it is only ON or OFF (it also has some hysteresis issues that need a small HA script to get around). Still searching...
Would this be good for underfloor heating that use electric trv?
I don't think so. Underfloor heating is a different beast... I think you need for that different type of valves and valve controls. But not 100% sure.
I bought Sonoff TRVZB thermostatic radiator valves after watching your video. I tried to paired them with a dongle of the same brand via Zigbee2mqtt Unfortunately I have a problem, they do not want to enter pairing mode and remain blocked with an alternation of “FA” codes " and “12”. I tried a factory reset but I’m still stuck on this configuration. Has anyone had the same setbacks?
Did you first install them on valves or are you trying to pair them first? They need to be installed on the Radiator and after that pairing should work.
Just checking to see if you tried it by first installing them and then pairing
Problem solved, it seems that these thermostatic heads do not work with rechargeable batteries!
I'm sorry to hear this, I ordered 3 units and I was very upset that they didn't work with rechargeable batteries.
@@kaandurgut these are first ones I didn't try and test with rechargeable batteries. But actually, that's problem with a lot of devices. Normal batteries are 1.5V while rechargeable are around 1.2V . So instead of 4.5V with 3 AA batteries, device ends with 3.6V For some, it may not be the issue, for others it can as it's significant voltage drop.
That's not first device I've seen that has this problem, but first TRV I've seen so far.
Hi, apologies if you have answered this, but I can't see your long term test video (as referenced in the video). Has that been published? If so, could you share the link, please? Please excuse me if it is there and I can't find it.
Keep up the great work, you have thought me so much already.
Unfortunately - no. I sitll haven't finished that one.
Problem is some of the valves just died. And I also got some new ones to test.
@@BeardedTinker Thanks for the reply. That's very interesting that some have died, so it'll make the review very informative and helpful for all of us viewers.
Thank you.
As you enter winter, we enter summer and I start looking at new cooling ideas :).
Hydronic heating is not common in Australia, but I still like watchign these sort of videos. I wonder what mechanism this valve uses.... Maybe it is not using a motor? I think a thermostatic valve needs to open and close slowly so you don't get sudden pressure changes in the system and avoid noise from the pipes.
That's correct - called something like water hammer - it can be dangerous. I do believe it's using motor but it is really silent.
Hydronic heating is what we actually have (but it's not called that way). We heat water in pipes with gas and circulate it in radiators (or underfloor pipes).
Can you add an external temp sensor to it ?
Did you see and try HACS Better Thermostat? Try that one - it "replaces" internal thermostat with external one.
No I have not heard about that one. Will have to look in to that one. Thanks@@BeardedTinker
Hello, thank you for the video. Can you tell me please is it possible to add independent temperature sensor to this TRV in Home Assistant and is it possible to add schedule in HA? I am quite new to this, just try to understand, which TRV is better for me
Check out Better Thermostat in HACS (I did video on it too). It allows you to add a lot more than just external thermostat for easier and more comfortable temperature control.
Schedule can be done but you need calendar for it or just create automation that get triggered at specific times to set temperature. (plus for example your location to stop heating if not at home).
Nice video and very informative. Can you set the requested roomtemperature, based on specific time in a HA automation if the TRV is paired with ZHA? I only see switch on/off and 'change HVAC modus' (off/heat) as actions to choose from.
You can create schedule or use schedule in HA to create automation and based on that set specific temperature.
Can these work with Google home ? So routines can be set up?
Not directly - and though I do have GHome device, I've never created any routine on them as I use Home Assistant for that - so that even when Google bricks devices and kills support, they still work, locally.
But you could try using Sonoff him with sonoff app to expose devices to Google Home
Would you recommend a modulating controller to go with this setup?
Yes (if we are talking about one hooked up to boiler/heater?). I have that setup. And BTW (spoiler) - not sure when but looks like they'll be releasing one later this year, probably Q3/Q4.
@@BeardedTinker thank you.
3:30 you could use Infrared Break Beam Sensors. These can easily be hooked up to an esp 8266 or 32
Awesome Idea! Thanks!!!
I was thinking the same principle but using a Light dependent resistor (LDR) and an led. Either should work fine
The bigger question is whether this valve is just az ON/OFF valve, or is it capable of setting the valve to any position in order the regulate the heating more efficiently.
www.zigbee2mqtt.io/devices/TRVZB.html#valve-opening-degree-numeric
Although this all depends if you have constant heating (utility company providing hot water) or not. If not, there is no need actually to got for anything besides 0/100% as it will command boiler to stop heating and it will close the valve. To have ANY effect on energy used to heat, you would need to have smart thermostat too with eBUS connection to boiler to also regulate how much it needs to heat the water inside the system, etc.
@@BeardedTinker Well if you own a house and can control your heater, and have a perfectly tuned system than you don't really need a thermostatic valve. You need a thermostatic valve if you want a higher temp in the baby's room for example, or you live in an apartment, where you have a central system, and everybody needs to regulate themselves how much heating they want in each apartment/room. For these cases you definitely need a proper thermostatic valve, not just an on/off thing.
Thanks for the video. Question, have you been able to get these to work with the SMLIGHT SLZB-06M and Zigbee2MQTT? I installed one today and it says "unsupported" after the pairing. Can't get any further.
Hi, awesome video, question can I connect this TRV to the Sonoff NSPanel pro?
Oh, I just watched the video again you have mentioned that it is compatible with NSPanel Pro. THANKS!!!
It should be fully supported. While I do have NSPanel pro with stock firmware, didn't try it so far.
Great and helpful video. Have you done the longer term test with renewable batteries? Thanks
Still not finished unfortunately. Always something getting in the way.
Thanks for you videos. What the Trv do you recomende?
This one is good, but also plain old Moes TRV too. (Not boxy or with a glass display).
I'll do a comparison video but it will take a bit more time.
I wish these were Z-Wave, but if they were, they wouldn't cost $26 I guess. These are clearly the best choice I've spotted so far, time to buy a dozen or so.
Unfortunately yes - ZWave and devices like this is probably a lot higher price.
Can it work with tuya hub? Like neo tuya zigbee 3.0 hub ?
Not sure - haven't tested. It could potentially work, but it depends on Tuya/Smart Life app to recognise it or not.
Hi mate! I'm just wondering - in connection to not being able to control valve position in % - how can it be controlled by other temperature sensor? For example HASS automation - open valve 100% if temp for other room sensor is below 21 degree? If it's not possible then we will need some fancy mapping if even possible. Also, I don't have radiators but underfloor heating with manifolds, wondering if I can replace dumb flow controling "rotameters" with smart TRV's (27$ for Zigbee, OMG so cheap!!)
Hey! That's an awesome question. I've talked a bit about this in few videos and streams - but that's not easy. If temperature is measured by TRV - it just opens valve 100% and when it reaches desired temperature, it closes the valve. This is the most simple but also dumb solution. Problem with external temperature sensors is that it takes time for heat from radiator to reach it - so you may have overshoot temperature near radiator by the time sensor detects desired temp.
There is HACS integration Better Thermostat - it among other things has temperature calibration, where it learns a bit more about your heating by using sensor data and with this, it can close valve before temperature reaches desired one, if it knows that residual heat from radiator (floor) will keep increasing room temperature.
3D printers works like that, also Tado and other "commercial" solution for heating.
Sorry for long post :) Hope it helped and pointed you where to look ;)
@@BeardedTinker Radiator is the easy one to control I think with this TRV (but I'd dispute if temperature sensor in valve, so close to radiator gives you true info about ambient room temperature!). With underfloor heating you have long system "delay" because first system has to heat properly floor which is a lot of concrete-like material. Not sure if better thermostat does support such a heating system with some manually controlled delay value or it calculates some parameters together like external temp + time of valve on/off + temperature sensor hysteresis and then learns how to properly control room temp , I have to check doc's ;)
1st - it seems like I need dumb valve controlled by ext temperature sensor as for me there is no point to have one with built in thermometer
2nd - calculate delays by observation how fast the room reacts to full valve open or close (obviously if I'll get my hands on some dumb valve or commercial one with more control)
A-ny-way: great video as usual, real pleasure to watch!!
Check Better thermostat documentation - I think this is something that can help you there. Of course, valves for underfloor heating is a different beast, but in reality it's the same. You never have same temperature in the room (unless it's micro room) on two different measuring spots.
Learning heating curve for space and heat source is really a must for those applications as it knows when to start or stop flow of water to get temperature you want.
I also have floor heating. I would also like to know if there is a valve, where you can set the position of the valve. Obviously you don't change it to often, but sometimes my wife wants a room to be a little warmer than the other. Did you find a solution for this?
@@romulusvictorcighir2729 Nope, I think I'll go with full open / full close, much easier.
Have you disassembled these heads and can you confirm whether they have feedback (optical encoder etc.) of the position of the pushing pin? I have Moes heads (in z2m visible as TS0601) and they are terrible. They have no feedback and overregulate the temperature in the rooms by 2 degrees Celsius. They also show the opening degree over the entire operating range, even though the valve travel range is a half of operating range of the head.
Haven't disassembled it - so can't tell you if there is a feedback sensor or not. As far as over-regulating temperature in room. Where are you measuring the temperature? Try Better Thermostat form HACS and pair Moes valve with external temperature sensor. It should learn heating curve for room and you should see less of those problems.
When smart TRVs are installed they usually probe for maximum and minimum position of the pin. My Danfoss LC13s certainly do that. Hopefully, they then set/report the percentage across that probed range. I think they usually have a servo style feedback mechanism (a potentiometer, or an optical or hall effect sensor maybe) that senses position. If these SONOFFs are on/off only, they don't need that sensor. If that is the case, that explains why they are so cheap but the lack of modulation makes them a poor choice for fine-grained temperature regulation.
I too have bought the Sonoff TRV and would be great to see you Home Assistant automation setup for these devices. Also have you implemented a stand alone smart screen to allow family members to change the heating temp without the need to be a home assistant guru ?
Right now this isn't supported in deConz. Tested it. Maybe I will swap the stack to ZHA.
Also, you can hear them very clearly! They sound similar to a vibrating phone when moving the valve. Not sure how one can miss that sound, it's really rather loud.
And they seem to be 100%/0%, but nothing in between. I think I will return them, as a mechanical device clearly is better in regulation. 2-Point regulation just does not cut it for heating, P or even PI is the minimum (which even 50 year old mechanical devices do)
I'm using TRVs from Earu Auto, battery last for close to 2 years.
That's awesome! Although since I moved to rechargeable batteries everywhere I can, that doesn't have that much impact on me - except button batteries.
Hi, Greetings from Slovenia. Very nice introduction of Sonoff valve. I'm curently using custom integration better termostat in HA and Moes valves. I wonder, if Sonoff valve would be better choise with this integration, what do you think? Bok brate :)
Hej, bok! If it ain't broken, don't fix it :)
Not really sure. While Sonoff ones are newer, I don't think Moes are bad ones. Also, Moes has a lot of types of valves, so the question, which one do you have. If it's the one I've done video 2-3 years ago, that's maybe best one out of all the Moes had so far. So - not sure you should need to go and changed them.
I @@BeardedTinker I have model BRT-100, it's ok but... :), they dont have off option and from my opinion they are not in best relation with integration of better termostat. AlsoI agree with you, if it ain't broken just leve it as it is. But I'm looking for perfection ;) Did you maybe test does two valves with this integration and what is your opinion which is best option for this integration?
Hey BeardedTinker, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but do I need to buy a Sonoff Zigbee Bridge for the TRVZB to get all the functions, or is Sonoff Zigbee Dongle Plus and ZHA enough? Also I think for my usecase I need 4 TRV instead of 1. I have 2 rooms that i want to control: Livingroom/kitchen (3 radiators) and Home office (1 radiator). If I got home in the evening and only will be in the office I want to heat the office alone, but since the Nest Thermostat is in the Livingroom, I will always need to heat the Livingroom as well if I only have 1 TRV in my house. Is this true? Thanks in advance for the help!
As stated in video, it can work with ZHA - so if you already have a stick there, you should be good to go.
As for scenario, you would need to create script or automation that triggers Nest thermostat to start heating when any of the valves requests heat, and to stop Nest heating when TRV's don't need heating anymore.
Check Better Thermostat HACS integration as this may help you. And that should solve part of the automation. Other one of course is to decided how the system will know what room it needs to heat - based on presence sensor, time schedule or just switch you want to use.
One additional recommendation from me - create a fail-safe - if for example, TRV (any) is in heating state for 90 minutes, send notification to mobile phone and/or send Nest command to stop heating. To prevent any possible overheating situations.
@@BeardedTinker thanks for the elaboration! I found out in the meantime that I cannot use TRV's on my radiators yet, since it are standard radiator valves, and not thermostatic valves. In the documentation I mostly see online, it does not seem that standard, but it still is in 1998 'social rent houses' I found out. The fact is, the social renting company needs to place thermostatic valves before this solution comes into play, unfortunately. I am not sure if they want to invest in that, but on the other hand, in the Netherlands measures involving saving the environment/sustainability are highly subsidised, so I gave it a try and asked if the social renting company wants to invest in thermostatic valves :) If positive, I will buy some Sonoff TRV's, since it seems to be the best buy, especially when you're running HA with ZHA already :) I was positively surprised about it is possible to automate the Nest Thermostat (Nest E) this much, since it did not feel as a super smart thermostat in my opinion, although it really helps to turn it automatically off when I forhget when leaving the house, and I can turn in off in my bed and not have to go downstairs to check again... Thanks for the advice, hope it works out for me!
Concerning valve position... some heating tubes resonate (and it can be VERY noisy) when the water is flowing at a certain speed. :(
Easiest solution is if you do not fully open the valve. A bit slower heating, but at least you can sleep at night :)
I'll be doing some testing on 6-7 various valves to see how they work, noise levels etc. But yes, unfortunately resonating tubes or radiators is something valve can't fix easily.
Hey @beardedtinker, love your channel and you have really helped me on my HA journey. One (probably stupid!) question I have always wondered on these valves. How does the valve control the thermostat, I have a smart (nest) heating but it is not always on, and triggers all radiators to turn on. How does the valve trigger the heater?
That's not that easy to explain, but yes, you do need a smart thermostat for that. Nest should probably do, but I have 0 experience with it.
It should look like this - TRV requests the heat (turns to heating state). Automation than triggers thermostat (for example, Nest, tado, or any smart Tuya or similar wall thermostat) to turn on.
Same, when TRV finishes heating cycle and changes to idle/off state, automation should trigger end issue same command to thermostat on the wall.
Some have used simple Shelly relays for that, but IMHO, that's bad idea - it should work, but there are not as many fail-safes it should have (stuck open etc).
Hope I managed to explain this - tried to be as short as I can. :)
@@BeardedTinker thanks for the response. Off the back of that my head is trying to get around the logic required to isolate and only turn on certain valves when required. The use case is that you only want one room to be warmer. To me that seems as if you would need to reduce the temperature on all of the tvrs I'll put them into a state of idle. I guess the default position on tvrs is that they all come on because the valve is open and as soon as the room reaches that temperature they will turn off. Not your problem but I wonder how others have got around this. I will hunt the blueprints in HA maybe to see what exists. Thanks again
I think it's the opposite. It's off by default, but please don't quote me on that. It only opens when it needs to heat, so they are keeping valves closed if it's not required to heat the room.
@@BeardedTinker Closing the valve by default makes a lot of sense. Cheers.
i can't find this on amazon :-(
you have to order from their website from china
Yes, for now they are not available on Amazon.
Can you please help me?
I have 5 of these TRV and a a nest thermostat for the boiler.
I am struggling to make each TRV call heating from the nest thermostat and only turn on the trv calling heat to warm any room that is below 16.4°C
2nd Automation will be to turn of any TRV in a room that has reached 18.8°C
alias: Turn on heating if any radiatos calls for heat
description: ""
trigger:
- platform: template
value_template: >-
{% set therms = [
states.climate.my_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.isabelle_s_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.olivia_s_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.living_room_heater,
] %}
{% set climates = namespace(under= [ ]) %} {% for therm in therms %} {%
if therm.attributes.current_temperature < therm.attributes.temperature %}
{% set climates.under = climates.under + [ therm.entity_id ] %} {% endif
%} {% endfor %} {{ climates.under | length > 0 }}
condition:
- condition: state
entity_id: climate.living_room
attribute: hvac_action
state: "off"
action:
- service: climate.set_temperature
target:
entity_id: climate.living_room
data:
hvac_mode: heat
temperature: 16.4
mode: single
alias: Turn on heating if any radiator calls for heat
description: ""
trigger:
- platform: template
value_template: >-
{% set therms = [
states.climate.my_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.isabelle_s_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.olivia_s_bedroom_heater,
states.climate.living_room_heater,
] %}
{% set climates = namespace(under= [ ]) %} {% for therm in therms %} {%
if therm.attributes.current_temperature < therm.attributes.temperature %}
{% set climates.under = climates.under + [ therm.entity_id ] %} {% endif
%} {% endfor %} {{ climates.under | length > 0 }}
condition:
- condition: state
entity_id: climate.living_room
attribute: hvac_action
state: "off"
action:
- service: climate.set_temperature
target:
entity_id: climate.living_room
data:
hvac_mode: heat
temperature: 18.8
mode: single
Struggling with this. Mine says .n not off
Maybe it’s because it’s not fitted to the plumbing yet?
What does it say? And when?
@@BeardedTinker it just says ,n if I turn it, it goes to F5 but reverts to ,n shortly. No option to turn it off if I rotate it.
Did you install it already on the valve? Looks like it wasn't calibrated.
@@BeardedTinker no it’s not on the valve yet. I wanted to set it up first in case there is a problem, but assume I can’t.
Does this thermostat automatically "exercise" the valves like say Danfoss does? I think its an important feature - but I cannot find the data to support it. In advance thanks for your reply. PS Good video!
Not that I know of - I haven't seen that in documentation. But that also shouldn't be a problem - create automation if valve hasn't moved in 10 or 30 days, open and close it to prevent calcification.
@@BeardedTinkerthat a good idea; so simply have an automated setup where temp is reduced to lowest temp. .. and then highest. Maybe repeat it a couple of times. Thank you for video and hint. Appreicated.
Hello. Does this really work with rechargeable batteries? This is very sad.
As I've answered on another of your comments - I've not teste these ones with 3 AA rechargeable batteries as I didn't have any spare or fully charged and available when I was testing. But it can be issue - for example tado reports low batteries on fully charged rechargeable batteries - due to big difference in voltage between normal (1.5V) and rechargeable (1.2V)
@@BeardedTinker thank you soo much
I am using all my TRVzb with rechargeable Energiser batteries so yes it works fine.
@@SmileyVideography This is good news, I don't want to harm the environment or my pocket, thank you very much for your answer, my friend. greetings from Turkey.
Why i kant find mi device ??
It's hiding somewhere? Does display on the device work and have you put it in pairing mode?
@@BeardedTinker I only have the thermostat head for the radiator. From what I've read, it can't be added to the application only it needs something Gateway Hub Is it true?? Because only the thermostat head does not find any application.
@@BeardedTinker I have only this Sonoff TRVZB Zigbee
@@adriantunaru5877 if you have only thermostat, you'll need additional device/hub from Sonoff to connect it to Google system. This one is not directly support via Zigbee protocol on Google devices.
@@BeardedTinker tHANK YOU
I just switched to a Tado thermostat, thanks to your amazing videos.
And seeing this now, i also want to order these 😂.
A question i have, is it possible to use them with a Tado thermostat via Home assistant?
It should be possible. You just need to create automation that would trigger tado to on state when TRV gets in heating state.Not 100% sure, but I think again, Better Thermostat can help you with that too.
@@BeardedTinker thanks for the quick reply, I will take a look at the different options.
Hi@@justinfer9371 , have you tried this combination?
Hi. I just bought 4 units of Sonoff TRVZB's. You say in your video and also record that it is silent when closing and opening. But my units do a loud bzzz sound when closing or opening the valve. I tried to open and close when NOT on the radiator so it doesnt resonate but its the same problem. Did i get faulty units?
Its the same sound as here:
ua-cam.com/video/GpaYHzFWR5s/v-deo.html
Not really sure - you've made second post about sound I've seen. Mine is still very quiet. I'll be getting my hands soon on sound measuring device and will test all of them again and measure sound level.
That's sad that it's not possible to see the percentage of opening valve.
That shouldn't be an issue as most work in such a way that they open or shut completely.
Too bad it does not have manual control of valve, even just 0/100% like in some other TRVs (mine GTZ04) :/ I do not like to use temperature controller from device itself because it is as much inacurrate as with normal valve. I could switch just for lower noise lever, but can't :(
Why don't you try Better Thermostat (did video on it about a year ago) and use (current) valve with that. It nicely ties TRVs with extermal temperature sensors and also uses learning curve to figure how your rooms are heating up.
As for the valve %, you shouldn't care about valve state at the end - if everything works as it should, it should be handled automatically. I have tado working for years now and only important thing is - does it heat/open TRV when it needs.
Your pricing of the tado TRV's was slightly misleading, the price you showed was for a starter kit, including a bridge. But even so, they are more expensive.
Check clip again, price of single valve was also on the same page. - Still about 3 times the price of this one. But you do need bridge for it to work as it's proprietary protocol..
The Sonoff TRVZB is just as noisy as Shelly TRV and Danfoss Living, so it it is properly not better than other TRV's
Also the Sonoff TRVZB don't change the valve position, it is only ON or OFF, which is no good if you want a stabil temperature and it also uses a lot more power from the batteries.
If TRVZB just would ajust the valve position instead of ON/OFF then it would properly be the best TRV I have tried.
Are you sure the noise is not from the valve? Also radiators can sometimes amplify the sound level.
As for on/off - yes. If you are using modern eBus controlled heating system, it can bring much more savings than those that keep valves open all the time, no matter if 10% or 90%. On the other hand, if you have a utility company supplying hot water for heating, then these are not suitable for that case. It depends on your setup and system.
@@BeardedTinker Yes, the noise comes from the valve.
Shelly and Danfoss Living TRVs on the same radiator makes the same sound level when the valve is moving.
They most definitely do make a noise when fitted. 🧐
Is it valve sound or sound amplification coming from radiator? When you fit it on valve but not on radiator, it's silent. When on radiator, depending on what type it is, does it have air inside and how it's mounted, it can resonate the motor sound.
I'll summarize some of the shortcomings here: does not work with rechargeable batteries, noise is there on most units, only on/off positioning,
Does any valve have options to only open it to a certain position?
AliExpress has these dummy batteries and one real one that is connected with a wire to a USB plug - so you can replace your batteries with a power adapter. Works great, the only downside that you have to make a small hole for the wire and you obviously need a power outlet. But you save three AA batteries.
very good video. i have moes valves and they are not very good
Moes TRV are ok considering they are now 2-3 years old. But a lot has changed and improved in the last few years in terms of quality of components.
Just to add something. Don't buy trv's with only 25% or 50% position control. Almost always this means on/off control in practice. Use 5% precision trv's.
Good tip, can you name few that have this and that you can actually control % open/closed?
@@BeardedTinker By having control I don't mean customer to force the valve at precise position. As a customer I need feedback for the position. Without knowing the position there is no way to understand whether there is a kind of algorithm implemented in TRV for temperature control. ON/OFF valves for heating systems is almost pointless if the heater itself needs time to follow the water volume changes. In many systems this may lead to over-regulation. For some reason the manufacturers don't give an information how precise is the position control that is implemented. Regarding the 25% and 50% . Buying TRV coupled with valve itself that comes from the same manufacturer is vary rare. Initial setups of TRV gives information for the two endpoints but if movement is not precise (5% for example) very often 25% open the valve fully or too much - same as on/off.
I am using smart TRVs for 3 years. The ones with 5% are regulating fine. But mine are very noisy. The others (25%) I am going to change in few weeks because they are acting as on/off. Actually they are quiet. Now I am waiting for TRVs that are described to have PID regulator implemented and are very quiet... But who knows. I am not a blogger or vlogger or whatever :) I participate in discussions very rare as this needs a lot of knowledge. But I am always not happy when manufacturers or advertisers or whoever don't give enough information regarding the product presented. For example ON/OFF valve is the easiest thing in the world... Having tons of options (weekly, daily programming, open door detection et cetera ) in most cases are 100% unusable. What if door for opened for 15 minute for example.... radiator will stop... good... and what after that... more energy to heat it again... so... where is the balance... OK, if this does not bothering me - I don't care :) but the most important things are missing from presentation of the products.
Sorry for bothering you. And sorry if my bad English makes me looks like unmannerly person... This is another reason I don't participate in forums :)
Thank you for awesome comment and time to write it - really appreciate it!
You are right, but, you really don't need it at the end. Most of professional (let's pretend those are close heating systems like tado) do that in backend (cloud for example), where they learn how your system works. They take your location, current outside temperature, time it takes to reach desired temperature, time it takes to cool down the space etc and create PID for your home or room (depends if it's just thermostat or TRVs).
Others (stand alone valves) use simple math - open valve to reach temperature and close valve when close, at or over desired temperature.
HA has nice (HACS) integration that tries to mimic commercial solutions, locally - Better Thermostat - it does most of the things it should - use alternative temp sensor, outside temperature sensors, door window sensor, to better heat the space.
But, also you have to take a look at boilers (gas) - modern one, with eBUS/OpenTherm control. They are the ones that regulate the temperature and not valves/TRVs. For example, when my kids room needs to heat from 20.5 to 22.0 and outside temp is 19oC, it will request heat - 13% and that will be enough to heat the room while using only 13% of energy. (there are additional logics here for example, if it will be sunny, don't heat to 22, instead heat to 21.5 as room wil be heated by sun). Past are the times when boilers had just on/off state using as much gas as they could.
That's why I said you don't need to care about valve position, as it needs to open to max when there is call to heat, as boiler is providing heat to that specific room (and maybe others that don't have smart TRVs) - and it will stop when room temperature is reached (or almost reached).
BUT - on with my question. I've tested so far 6 different valves. Some report state, most don't but I haven't found any that would allow you to control them. Also looked at specs for others that I didn't test and still couldn't find them.
Back to TRVs - don't expect to much from them - they are dumb valves, with very little logic on them. They need some kind of backend system to give them brain. And this is where you should (IMHO) focus your attention, as it should learn about you, your home - and give you always pleasant home.
Again, thank you very much for your comment!!!
@@BeardedTinker
How is the return temp on the radiator with this system? I am afraid that a fully open/closed thermostat will increase return temp. Can you elaborate on this?
The reason I ask is, that I will be charged a fee (% of my heating expense) by my district heating, if I do not cool down the return temp. To desired levels (at least 28° celsius)
@@SsCLIQUE that's a different problem. It will completely shut off the valve, so everything will bypass the radiator and yes, your return temp will be too high. The only way for this to "work" is to have some radiators open while 1 or 2 have TRV to control the temp.
I just spent my money on the Aqara brand TRV and the Temperature and Humidity Sensor. Not impressed with the temperature accuracy of those, 2.5C higher than everything else.
Haven't tried Aqara one - TBH trying to avoid Aqara as much as I can for videos, although I to use stuff from them a lot. Can you calibrate them?
@@BeardedTinker I had to come back to apologies to Aqara, checked them with two different 2 point calibrated thermometers. The five devices differ by 0.1C. The other devices are the temperature sensors in the Philips Hue motion senor and the worst reads 3C under. This is the one that told me my office was 29C this summer.
@user-uk4se5jp1s nice to know it - thank you very much for taking the time for this update!!!
Hey, don't want to be a D.... but why you try to overcomplicate the test setup ?! just send an open command, next minute send a close command. A minute shall be enough to fully close / open the valve - and you will get 1440 cycles per day, which should be pretty good indication.
Excellent question - I want to measure and track close/open state - that way I can be sure that commands are received and carried out. Also this helps with determining the speed of the valve and also battery longevity.
@@BeardedTinker Weeeellll, in software circles we call it "overthinking" ;) But on serious note your valve after finishes it's movement it updates it's status to the zigbee coordinator as open / close (or idle / heating ) - this could be a basis for measurement. And thanks for the vid, I did buy two noname brands from china hoping that those will replace my tado, but those were loud as heck. Sonoff arrived today for testing and IT IS QUIET ! Actually less audible than tado!
Don't buy trv's without position control and without some advanced regulation. PID for example. If the trv is only on/off ....don't use it in heating system that is not constant on or constant off.
Do you know some valves with this feature?
@@lukasskymuh5910 I have 2 types of TRVs. Now I am waiting one more (may be next week I'll have it). All are relatively cheap (approx. EUR 30). First type I got is wit 5% valve control and the other is with 25% and actually works as ON/OFF (I don't know whether some algorithm is implemented on it because in my case it works as ON/OFF). I'll try to find the exact models (Home Assistant recognize them as TS0601 (5%) and BRT-100-TRV (25%) but I guess TS0601 is very common and many models are recognized as TS0601). The one I am waiting for is TRV602. I am satisfied by the temp regulation with TS0601 but my model is old and I can't find it anymore. The problem with my model is that they are a little but noisy and fragile. For 2 years I changed 2 pcs and now 3rd is waiting to be changed. There are plenty of TS0601 but the with different shape and mechanics and I don;t know how they will behave.
BRT-100-TRV is less noisy. I got it for 1 year and for until now I don find problem with mechanics. But I am not satisfied from temp regulation with it. I'll place a post after I receive the new one and after I find the exact models. I'll find a way to show you graphics how temperature is regulated by both types TRVs I got.
I believe for small systems ( mine has 8 radiators ) smooth control is very important and ON/OFF TRVs are not suitable. Even for large systems this may be a problem but there is less chance many radiators will be closed/opened more or less simultaneously .
@@lukasskymuh5910 Here is how temp regulation looks like: drive.google.com/file/d/1VlhWOY53egMJAQO2OUL5WWqR6Hb5PFFz/view?usp=sharing
@@lukasskymuh5910 netatmo, for example
Would be also interested in alternatives or in a why?
looks like clone of Tuya GTZ-08
Doesn't look like it - GTZ looks like most of Tuya based TRVs, like ones from Moes and others that use Tuya web services. And it also looks like GTZ is some regional only TRV not available in a lot of areas. Just check display, it's same as Moes display on TRV.
sorry meant GTZ06 i have have exact same display and functions@@BeardedTinker
Yes, that one is very similar in functions and display.
Dont buy they suck, does not close the valve completely and gets too hot
Did you try to recalibrate the valve? Maybe it was not too tight. I've had it running for 6+ months and haven't noticed any issue like that.
@@BeardedTinker yes I did, only closes the valve completely while calibrating but not when normal using it even tho it says that the valve is 0% open
@@BeardedTinker i read about other people having the same issue
@@BeardedTinker So the batteries lasted 6 months? Do you have any update about battery life?
Is this thermostat compatible with the Philipp Hue Bridge?
Good question, but can't help you - not using anything from Philips.