Harry has done some really cool stuff. In particular, I'm a fan of Lights Up. The melody, harmony, "bridge" section are all super interesting and really well executed! These are just some thoughts about how this one could've been tweaked a bit to be even better. What are your thoughts on the song??
Crucify me for this...but i think i kinda like the ninth and that pre chorus is my favourite part of the song. The chorus itself is pretty bland tho i agree.
That’s so interesting how people hear things differently. My favorite parts of the song are the ones that got you frustrated because they sounded so interesting. And when it was “fixed” it became so basic to me. loved the theory parts though
Austin Shoupe yea wtf nothing wrong with learning music theory i do it my self. But there is no wrong or right in music . If something sound nice it sound nice who cares whats within bounderies
It sounds plain because it removes all the tension from the progression. The f note he's talking about takes you further away from "home" which results in greater relief later. Good song writing choice in my insignificant opinion. "Fixing" it just removes all the spice lol
@@Julius_Smith he's actually doing the opposite. The original is remarkably devoid of tension or direction. It's also just a bit clunky. The 'fixed' version adds tension and smooths out the clunkiness, but that brings it closer to cliches that already exist.
Nobody can make a critic, from any point, cause is "hate". This guy makes sense in every point he made, and he wasn't rude or disrespectful, that's his opinion.
Thing is, doesnt it matter wheter people can vibe with the Song like, whats the Point telling people the notes are false, If they still enjoy the Song? Theres also Songs that give a certain vibe because a false or unusual Note ist played in the Beat And you can find that in many genres. And btw i dont even Like the watermelon song
I love this comment section No one is yelling saying “UR AN IDIOT AND U SUCK” It’s a very peaceful discussion and it’s very inspiring for someone who enjoys learning more about music. Point is Music people have big wrinkle brain energy
it's interesting because harry himself talked about how they worked on this song for over a year and that it was a really frustrating song to complete, and for a long time he really hated it. when you look at this song alone it seems like a standard pop song with nothing to it, yet I think that it actually shows the variety that harry has in his music, considering the other songs on fine line and his first album explore many ideas that are not typical mainstream pop, and you find that his favorite songs he's made are those less mainstream ones
Great insight! I think it's unfortunate that sometimes the best material from an album is the least broadcast because maybe it gets deemed less marketable. It's hard to say where the line is between it being our fault as consumers or labels' fault for just money grabbing and manufacturing "hits." I made this in part because I know Harry has made some really cool stuff and this is nowhere near what he can do!
@@CharlesCornellStudios it's also important for fans to realize that videos like this are not attacks on harry as an artist, but rather an insight to what is happening musically. I totally agree with you and enjoyed what you had to say, even as a fan of his.
@Sam Maloney Despite the fact i can see your point in some ways and respect your opinion, you more than likely needed to be briefed on Charles' opinion of this song's structure as you more likely than not would have applied your stubborn persona to never giving Harry's music the benefit of the doubt.. My point is you should not immediately judge Harry's abilities as a songwriter/composer, based on what you hear here, genuine artists will write many songs, not all necessarily hits, with 9/10 of the results proving to go nowhere and end up as mistakes. These artists also have their own personal taste and will create and base their on music on what inspires them, nothing wrong with this whatsoever and in fact Harry's confidence in his abilities should be applauded. I urge you to look upon your own musical idols and, without bias, consider the possibility that they're not all Godlike and do in fact make bloopers.
With ear training it's reasonable for a musician to develop a good relative ear. Many musicians play by ear after years of practice, it's not too outlandish
Its not nessiserily perfect pitch, thats what music students go to music school to do. Some noodle around, some struggle and cant get there, and some get there easier than others, some struggle and do get there over time. Its called music theory and aural skills it isnt just music talent. Musicians have to work at it too. Especially the ones that dont have perfect pitch, but the thing is, its learnable with effort.
its surprisingly easy with practice and knowledge of theory. Genres have very defining harmonic "stereotypes" that, once you know em, you can replicate them easily. Music school gave me endless headaches, but fuck if I cant pick up on stuff I hear in a moment.
@@leightonvanderesch277 you can get to this level it just takes a little bit of time each day. 15 minutes a day makes a huge difference over the years. You might not be as young as him when you reach that level, but you started later anyways.
@@arthurhaag9434 I can play, I can play quite good actually. But I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I can just pick out that song. I practice an hour 3 days/week
I love how he forgets what the heck he's doing halfway through and just starts going to town on the keys. And I was like, "I think he's on to something".
"So it's in C, right?" In that moment, he wasn't the only one disappointed and frustrated. Edit: Before replying with new criticism, please do read what has already been said or debunked before. Thank you! :D
@@Sh-ws5jd There's nothing necessarily wrong with C. It's just very basic and I personally associate children's songs for example with it, since a lot of children's songs were in C major when I first learned my instrument. Personally I think the key in which a song is played has a lot of influence on a song. For example there's a big difference between c minor and a minor (c minor sounds a lot darker than the milder a minor, and c sharp minor for example sound a lot more aggressive). So I feel like picking C major is being a bit lazy. Of course I understand that he has to be able to sing in that key and it has to sound good, I'm just a bit judging of C major (and apparently 77 other people agree).
@@freshpinkapples7618 I don't understand your point, at least in equal temperament, which is the one more or less all keyboardists use. The "color" you're talking about, is that inherent to the key or just related to your memories? Also, I don't really get like, why C would be lazy... Ok it's only white keys on a keyboard, but that does not predetermine what you gonna do with them.
@@link1628 Maybe it is just what I associate with memories and I sound like a crazy person. I was trying to think of a time that my piano teacher told me something like that, but now I'm struggling. I didn't mean to sound snobbish if I did. I think it's just an illogical opinion. Sorry, man, if I offended you.
Honestly, I personally appreciate your honesty, Charles. Thanks for being willing to share your unique perspective of this song with us, it's quite refreshing to hear.
“The lyrics don’t make sense!!” *Harry stroking a watermelon* Me: this makes perfect sense Edit: wow I can’t believe how viral this went thank you everyone!
As a person who has practiced classical music for more than ten years, is a jazz fan and enjoys pop music, I think people who know strong music theory are sometimes stuck in the ideal chords combination. Sometimes jump outside the box bring more surprise, at least; that is what I felt when I heard the intro of this song.
I think it's pretty rich to suggest that an _improvisational jazz_ musician doesn't like something because he's "stuck in an ideal chord combination" and needs to "think outside the box." I mean, if you watch any of his other videos, one of the things he does _constantly_ is pause a composition and go "whoa, did you hear that?" and explain how unexpected and unusual it is. Charles Cornell _loves_ to be surprised and _loves_ it when pieces go outside the box. It's kind of the core of Jazz as a genre. To a trained ear, there is a huge difference between something that is unusual or unexpected, and something that just sounds sloppy and doesn't work. This piece is the latter.
Yeah I feel like sometimes people who study too much music theory are stuck in ideas how things should be and what is correct. But there is not actual right or wrong.
Honestly think Watermelon Sugar is a bop, and I never had an issue with the 4th over the tonic chord. It seems like tension that gets resolved. Granted, I wasn't even thinking much of the effect of a F over a C chord. I think it sounded fine. Love the breakdown tho! Had me thinking differently about a song I like.
Big fan of Harry here and just want to mention one thing: this song was released in December and wasn't lazily made to be a summer hit... so yeah. Fair points otherwise
True, but it’s only being released as a single off the album now, in time for summer. So there was some planning behind it being for summer, not necessarily lazy tho
I actually, weirdly enough, enjoy the incompleteness of the song. It kind of gives the song this lazy, unfinished summer project vibe. And frankly makes a generic pop song a bit more unique.
i agree - sometimes something that doesn't make perfect musical sense can be very sonically interesting and get across a certain vibe - to me it does communicate the aimlessness of summer
Exactly. There are things I personally think this song could do better but Charles absolutely fixates on that pre-chorus 'breathe me in...' melody and clearly doesn't get how that section and the first chorus sets up the following verse where the groove kicks in. I personally enjoy how that melody there, as simple as it is, builds some tension without moving the song away from the 'vibe' (I know it's a bollocks word but it'd kinda useful sometimes) that's set in the first verse. The chorus melody is ridiculously simple but the harmonies that get stacked on it as the song builds end up making it quite enjoyable to my ear. The big pop 'we've arrived' moment is definitely the 'I just wanna taste it...' section anyway. I'd be interested to see what he'd actually offer up as an alternative. The noodling in the video may have offered up some 'technically' stronger melodic movement but it just sounded a bit Disney (kinda dramatic and obviously with both feet in one place emotionally) to me and really wouldn't fit the vibe (again, sorry) of the song. I think any argument that it was cynically written as a last-minute summer tune is completely undermined by the fact it was released last year. The musical choices made make sense to me and there's a clear sense of where the song's moving to, not just what's best for the section if you cut it out of the song and view it alone. I think the changes Charles (sort of) suggests would completely change the song and make it feel very disjointed. I think when you can't pinpoint exactly what isn't working for you, musically, you just have to admit that it's just a case of it not being your personal preference.
@Michael B Indeed, in jazz surcles it's considered good practice to replace all F's with F#'s, as the note F just doesn't cut it in more sophisticated music.
as a die hard harry fan, i'm so upset that this song had to be the one getting all this hype when his entire first album was a zero-skip classic rock album and there are so many fantastic songs on fine line as well... i guess that's how music business works, release all the mainstream pop songs from your album (literally, every single one, and that was the entirety of the singles for fine line) and you'll get a bloody grammy nomination when your first album was entirely slept on by the general public.. i'm just upset that due to this, we've now come to the point where Charles has to make a video about how this huge hit single doesn't make sense, when we could've had him be amazed by other songs that NOBODY KNOWS bc they're not singles. i'm mad. that's it lol. i agree Charles, you did what you had to
The issue seems to be right here, yet people look right past it. The reason Charles doesn't get the hits like this 'bad' song is precisely because it tastes bad to him. It's like serving salad and wondering why everyone is buying the ice cream next door, 'dont they know ice cream is bad for you?' They don't care it's bad for them. They like it because it's an ear worm that sets a relevant mood. They don't care it's simple, 'doesnt make sense', or anything else.
I think the answer to your query is simple, it's personal preference. His first album was not a super hit cause people didn't enjoyed it as much, on the other hand I would assume that most people loved listening to watermelon sugar and thats why it's a hit song. At the end of the day music is a personal preference and all of us have got their own taste and we should not judge people on the basis of their palette
Sam Maloney Think I agree. Sure, it isn’t good to be an asshole, but it seems to me that ensuring at all times that the person(s) you’re speaking to aren’t offended just accomplishes the obscuring of truth. Often times, the truth hurts. Take the above’s point with constructive criticism, for example.
A Toilet It’s not just that. Charles is aware that he’s talking about music, not theoretical physics. Besides the theory, everything always reduces to personal taste, and you can feel that every time he’s tempted to impose his own view on something so subjective, he feels genuinely remorseful. It’s funny and a bit frustrating to watch him squirm this much, but I personally prefer it to the average cynical “I know it all”. UA-cam is already full of them.
When he said harry styles released new songs watermelon and sugar i was like wasnt it released earlier?? Then checked youtube to see that it was his official Video that he launched... The song was out 6 months ago..
It was released in the album but now it’s being rereleased as a single to be played on the radio etc, which isn’t all that uncommon :) it makes sense as a “summer hit” so that’s probably waited so long to release the music video and the single
The official music video came out 2 days ago as you search watermelon sugar it's the first result. Now you're just being willfully ignorant to make a joke.
imma push back for a second. when i heard it the first time, i was just as confused as you were, trying to find the tonic and make the melody make sense. but one day, it clicked that the song isn’t in C major but D minor. If you hear it in that key, the melody makes 100% sense. Now, that E minor chord has no business belonging in a song in D minor. The G major works fine as a major six. I love that it adds a sound that we don’t hear in everyday pop music. But that E minor is what throws the whole song for a loop. So yeah I understand your frustration, but it’s much better to listen to when the D is a repeated tonic note instead of a repeated ninth.
I’m a bit confused. There’s no E minor in this song. The chords are Dm Am C G... and the G is actually a major four, not sixth. But I do agree with you, the song is not in C. D dorian makes more sense.
1. There's no Eminor in the song, are you talking about the C? 2. I really don't think it's in Dminor, it might sound like it for a few seconds in the pre-chorus but the melody for most of the song clearly suggests Cmajor/Aminor as the key center.
Disclaimer: I’m not a fan of this song, but I think it sounds clear to me that this isn’t in C Major but D Dorian. D is definitely the central note and it makes more sense when you analyse it relative to D, not C. I’d be interested in Charles’ thoughts and if this changes anything.
This is such a pleasing song to hear, I love the brass at the end... I really like the song, it’s okay being simple, not all songs need to be super complex. I actually love how to “pre-chorus” breathe me in breathe me out sounds, it’s good for a pre-chorus
The really cleaver thing is it fits because if you listen to the lyrics he’s literally saying “I couldn’t ever go without” the sound reinforces the feeling that something isn’t quite right an something is missing, it’s actually a sad breakup song
Rafael Santos the songs off a production line, I doubt the laptop that randomised this sequence of lyrics even knows what the hell its about! There is a thing called irony, it's very subtle
@@sacredgeometry Dissonnance is cool, and there's nothing wrong with it, but there are weak and strong decisions. Now the defiition of weak and strong may vary according to the individual, but to me that F sounds very much underwhelming and weak as a decision. My ear just perceives it as something that doesnt add anything to the melody and instead kinda makes it annoying. I am dissonance's strongest advocate I love me some crunchy chords and lines, and the use of Major triads with the added fourth is something im familiar with HOWEVER it needs to done a certain way for it to really add the color of the fourth and in that context my ear doesnt perceive it as an "intentional use of dissonance" This is all obviously my opinion and take on it, I just think its a very underwhelming song melody wise
@@charles-antoinepouliot6675 Always choosing strong decisions makes music boring. I am definitely someone that does that. My music favours consonance and strong decisions and as a result is utterly mundane an uneventful.
@@sacredgeometry Strong decision does not mean consonant tho, Hard dissonance can be a strong decision, I agree that music that is too safe lacks emotional content and is mundane and uneventful. I love me some dissonance, but some decisions feel stronger than others, those can be consonant or dissonant, it's just that this particular dissonance, I thought was a very weak choice. But I completely understand your point.
The whole point behind the song is that he’s singing in a vibe that gives off the impression of D minor. the way you’re looking at it is a song in the key of C that’s supposed to resolve in C. That’s why you’re getting so frustrated. EDIT: as many have pointed out, D Dorian is actually a better fit. Thanks for the likes!
from my understanding of music theory, its all about explaining how different styles of music work. Analyzing a pop song from a jazz theory perspective wont make sense in the same way that analyzing a jazz song from a baroque theory perspective wont make sense either. I remember freaking out about the I-V-IV progression (all root position) in baba o'riley bc my teachers said that almost never happens in chorales. But then i realized baba o'riley isnt a chorale. Its a rock song. Completely different from a theory perspective. Since a rock song isnt a chorale, you cant analyze it like it is one.
Agreed! I'm a classical pianist and I've done some arranging for a soul/r&b/jazz/gospel/pop acapella group and it took time to come to terms with having parallel fifths and octaves in the arrangements lol
Yes, but even across genres, physics and harmonics still work the same way. Sitting on the fourth degree of the major scale when you're playing a I (one) chord doesn't work in classical, jazz, or pop music because the overtones of the fourth scale degree are going to clash with the third of the chord. The third of the chord is the fifth harmonic of the root of the chord. If we're in C, like the song is, the eleventh overtone is closer to an F# than an F, which is why a #11 works as a chord extension, even though it's not in the key. In this case, the reason why the part of the melody that Charles was the most irritated by sounds bad doesn't have to do as much with style or conventions as it does with clashing harmonics.
@@michaellasfetto5810 I think you're missing the point. I get what you're saying, but this song is about texture, not notes. The timbre of the voice is very distinct from the guitar. The voice has a floating quality, singing many 9ths and 6ths against the grounded guitar, which sticks to basic triads. It's really brilliant if you think about it. And then in the chorus, the vocals and the accompaniment align, and it sounds so solid compared to the ethereal quality of the verse.
Bruh, y'all are putting words into his mouth. He is just explaining how a pop song isn't that good from a musical theory standpoint, not that it completely ruins the song or that y'all should hate it. Maybe take your own advice: "If you don't want to listen to him, just ignore it and move along."
This comment deserves so much more likes, i hate when people say things like “lol he’s just mad he can’t do it himself” or “XD he’s just jealous of Harry styles!!”. Whenever the hardcore stans see an alternative opinion they gotta take out their “you’re just jealous of their success” moves. Annoys me so much.
I don't care for the song really but he did say that the song is "musically useless" right after he said he doesn't like tearing down music other people like. That's a direct quote and is not valid criticism in any way. It would be fine if he just went full harsh with it, thats at least honest. But when you tip toe around it and say pretty harsh stuff and then play coy, you look bad and invite your own harsh criticism.
Yes, however you could argue that that is a part of the song’s appeal. It’s about a good summer time on a beach. No one’s trying to go somewhere on a beach - they want to stay and relax in the sun/atmosphere.
I feel that these are all great points but I also think a part of music is making “mistakes” and allowing change. Musicians need to be able to step outside of the norm and see what works. Love the videos!
I agree but at the same time the mistakes that Harry should be making should be more about the stylistic choices in the songs he makes and not on a basic musical level. Emphasizing the perfect 4th on a major chord (really the only note in the major scale that sounds bad on the chord) is almost objectively bad sounding and I don’t think music being produced with an audience that large with likely multiple songwriters and people who heard the song before it was released should be making errors like that. But I totally agree that artists should be allowed to try new and unusual things in their music in order to grow.
@@rileytanner4476 But it isn't - the fourth over a major chord is a pleasingly empty and strangely dissonant sound - and some people like that sense of suspense, rather than a cheesily smooth and behaved jazzy drivel littered with 7ths and flattened 9nths, ^oo^
It's noodling if you need it to "be going somewhere", rather than do something elaborate where it is. Schenkerian thinkers might like you to consider the entirety of Hindustani classical music to be "noodling". I, for one, disagree.
@@KnzoVortex Most music builds intensity gradually and releases it abruptly. Better music ramps multiple parameters of intensity and releases them out of phase with each other. Beethoven is pretty good at that, for example. The "going somewhere" in Hindustani music just tends to be an informationally denser version of where you start. In western tonal music, it tends to be where you first implied you were going, but after a collection of various sequential detours. Western listeners often complain that Hindustani music doesn't really go anywhere, but just makes a mess of where it begins. Nonwestern musicians from places like Bali sometimes complain that western music treats transposition, itself, as a meaningful form of elaboration. I have always been more sympathetic to the second kind of complaint.
As a huge Harry fan, I completely agree with you that this isn’t a great song. He has some incredibly good ones, but this one is just a basic “fabricated -for- radio” song. And as a pianist I was frustrated with the chord progression as well. Love your vids Charles!! :)
The song is about giving head not about the summer. It's pretty clear if you watch the video. Also, I don't really think he was trying to get a summer time hit out of this; the song came out like a year ago.
I liked the groove. And the melody. One thing - the purposed Charles version of the melody sounds sort of 'safe'. Harry Styles version sounds with a bit of a tension. And I love that. It is not that the music has to always adhere to the rules. Make interesting melodies - break the rules!!! 😎😎😎🤘
Here is the issue when a person knows to much about something. That thing that you know to much, you basically stop enjoying and start criticizing. I believe, in music, there is no right or wrong, but what your ears understand and get used to it. All the issues you pointed about the notes not fitting in places, comes down to personal taste. Popular hits are not made for experts musicians, but for general public that just want to enjoy a new sound. Usually, music made by experts musician, rarely became a huge hit, because an expert want to put all their knowledge to the song, and it get so complicated, that regular ears don’t understand.
I partially agree, but I think it comes down to what kind of musician the person is as well. Just look up Jacob Collier’s process and his approach to music. He knows so much but yet isn’t restricted by conventions. He experiments and makes music that sounds good to him even if it challenges musical conventions.
Even then too, good musicians are always learning. My old professor back when I was a classical music major was always striving to learn more or change her views on things day to day. This kind of narrowminded elitist look you get from some music majors isn't a good look. Some people get boxed in with theory, others don't, but this guy clearly does.
You're not musically deaf for liking parts that someone more experienced liked. It means you have different tastes and a different understanding of music. Both you and Charles' opinions are completely valid, if you liked the music then that's great.
I kinda like when songs don’t fit the standard melodic sequences. Sure, they may sound a bit strange, and you don’t always know why, but it gives it a certain something.
Pleaseeee lmfao name 2 other songs then that ‘don’t fit standard melodic sequences.’ Unless of course you’re just saying this because you need to say literally anything justify stanning Harry Styles
but it does follow standard melodic sequences, its kinda the hole point of the video, it follows without thought and somethings end up not sounding great
to be fair his team did wait until now to really push it as a single and give it a mv in a clear attempt at making it a summer hit. nothing wrong with that, it’s a smart move
I am a really big fan of Jazz. But this song is really nice, even though it is simple. There are just some songs that do the job and sound fun, they don't have to sound delightful every time. It just fits
hahaha factssss but like there’s literally no reason for this dude to be hating on watermelon sugar like bruh if u don’t like it stfu harry is literally a mega star and prolly doesn’t give a fuck abt common sense
I mean... What sounds good, just sounds good... When you put theory it can work but there are outliers that don't have an explanation in theory. For example: 8:18 he gives an example of a chord sequence in "I don't know if I could ever go without" with theory... And it sounds bad. Not as in it's unpleasant but it's not in the same ballpark as Watermelon Sugar
It starts on the 2 chord not the 4. There's no F chord in this song. It's 2 6 1 5... It's a D Dorian progression. How did you decide this song is rooted on the 4 chord?? Very confused here.
Anita Shuller Piano I’m an advanced musician, and I think it’s pretty good. The thing here is that people expect it to sound a specific way and follow “the rules” and be like any other song, he’s taking risks, and it turned out pretty well in my opinion
1:03 Agreed. If many pop stars went this sort of acoustic/bar sound they would be more appealing to even more people. Just take a look at LP - Lost on You, everyone remembers that live version more than the original
not to necessarily be a downer, but I don't think that's necessarily what he's talking about. it's not the style of watermelon sugar that bothers him, it's the strange / uninteresting melodic choices
I would say the "not memorable" opinion doenst really match with me having the song stuck in my had for a week when it first appeared in SNL. But that might be just me.
The word “Memorable” is referring to over a long period of time. We still remember some of Mozart’s melodies and some of Beethoven’s and Vivaldi’s and it’s been 2 to 300 years. I think that he means that this melody won’t last that long.
Here's my perspective: With the vocal line, Harry's deliberately trying to resolve to the 9th, which sounds like a resolution but with a yearning for something more (which the lyrics could suggest). I personally am a fan of resolving with extensions in the vocal line in pop music. Or y'know, he's secretly implying that he wants to give the D.
The thing for me is: it changes the sentiment of the song... every note he sings has a meaning or it communicates something, so if you change the melodies, it ultimately changes the song...
The same melodic pattern and behavior is not only used within the song for different lyrics, but across songs about completely different things. The melody is mostly pentatonic and a safe bet on any song - the notes were likely not chosen for any special meaning at all.
a main part of the video was him explaining how he didnt use any melodic devises to deepen his lyrics, he could've, but he didn't. different progressions, harmonies, intervals convey emotion and that's a huge part of music analysis to recognise small things like that.
@@ericssonhatfield3252 I think they were chosen because they thought the feeling of that sequence was right for the song. It gives "meaning", a sentiment to the song. Besides, you can tell lots of different "stories" with the same pentatonic scale. I think it's a cool sequence of notes that makes the song special and catchy. But it's ultimately like colors on a painting. Some people like it, some don't.
It was written on the guitar, and I enjoy that eclecticism with that f over c major. It's a saccharin pop song, but I love it. It's not shine on you crazy diamond, it's a summer pop song.
@@abhinavajith92 I think I started to understand some bits here and there after consuming so many YT music content. I never had a music class in my entire life.XD
I disagree- I think he created the exact sound that he wanted. He was going for a really fun, vibey and happy summer sound, which he achieved and executed (imo) perfectly. His music is so unique in comparison to what is being released right now and I absolutely LOVE what he's doing
I understand what ur saying, and its hard to marginalize any type of music to one genre or “rule”. But I think Charles was going for something that was more sonically pleasing. (explaining on how Harry using the F on a cMaj) which isn’t wrong. It just doesn’t feel right. I feel that he would benefit from making his music more “unique” if he used the c Lydian scale which is using the sharp F. Sorry for ranting lmao but i understand where ur coming from.
Can't a fun summer song also be a little more creative? I don't really know Harry's songs that well, but this one in particular doesn't seem to be any different from other artists and songs released today... Four chord structure (I-V-vi-IV), heavy production, repetitive melody... That said, there's nothing wrong in liking songs like this. Is just that it could be MORE, and the potential is, as the video title puts it, frustrating.
Love you Charles but gotta disagree with you here. In my opinion the “off” notes in this sound make it sound refreshing and new. Not every song needs to follow conventional rules! Personally this is one of my favorites from the album^
I totally agree, I think the melody going back to the 4 a bunch adds some interest. I think the song in general is mostly just vibes, like put it on in the background at a BBQ or something. The melody is not what makes this song sorta meh.
The first chord is not really an F, Harry’s using a Dm7, if you had used D minor, most of the melodic lines are pretty coherent. Actually the entire song is in D dorian (even if it shares the same notes as C major, it’s not c major), Harry only uses the D minor pentatonic as his melody, with an added 9th, which is pretty common (notice how he never uses any B’s and only uses two F’s). The only really difficult thing about the song is the melody at the end of the bridge, but other than that it’s not at all incoherent or weird.
John Balke the thing is the song doesn’t feel like c major. You know how people often say that sweet home alabama is in G major, when it really feels more like a D mixolydian? The same goes for this song, even if the notes the song uses are in the key of c major, the song doesn’t have that feel.
Personally, I find the shift from traditional patterns and structured music refreshing. Hearing music that makes unexpected moves and changes is new and I like that.
Thank goodness I’m not the only one who felt so! Sure it’s a fun song but that’s exactly what I felt when I was trying to play it. After phenomenal songs like Lights up, this was a drop. He still won a Grammy for this one haha.
Harry has done some really cool stuff. In particular, I'm a fan of Lights Up. The melody, harmony, "bridge" section are all super interesting and really well executed! These are just some thoughts about how this one could've been tweaked a bit to be even better. What are your thoughts on the song??
Omg 2 long vids in a row!!!!!
same LOL-
What training did u do for jazz pls?! Lessons and grades of anything to get where u are now ?
What's good. Love your music theory stuff. Thank you!
I replied
Cool
Why not take his isolated vocal track and make your own music to it. I'd love to hear what you do with it and compare the two!
Copyright issues
Stop being mean u came here to watch the video
That would be so cool!!
We all wanna see this.
@@chelseachepkoech9104 I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I'd actually love to hear him remake this song!
I just saw “Jazz pianist reacts to water” and decided it was worth a watch
I would assume the water was laced with something... In which case I'd so be down to watch that 😳🎶
True for me too
NaK like, I presume?
Sounds like a clickhole video
😂
*Jazz:* Pop needs more spice.
*Pop:* Adds ninth
*Jazz:* No no no let me explain...
lmaooo this made me laugh way more than it should've
Adding 7ths = no prob
Adding 9ths - wait wut
Charles Cornell your the best!
Morgan Wallace Tremillo _exactly_ i enjoy playing billie eilish’s music the most of any pop music on piano since she adds 7ths
Crucify me for this...but i think i kinda like the ninth and that pre chorus is my favourite part of the song. The chorus itself is pretty bland tho i agree.
To be fair, drawing random notes from a hat seems like a fun composition game.
We did something like that in music class at my school. It was dope
YES I THOUGHT SO TOO
Look up "Aleotoric Music". Some composers like John Cage and Stockhausen experimented with things like that.
i actually made a whole song this way, with a midi guitar solo drawn from the hat, ended up being a horribly boring I V vi IVsong
If you don’t do any work to make it sound good, it’s basically a twelve note row and bam it’s abstract
I think you should present an entire “fixed” version of these songs at the end of the video!
YES I would love of a full song of Charles version!
Yesssssssssss
Yeeeee
Yes please! This is such a good idea!
THIS.
I love watching people passionately talk about things that they have great knowledge about.
And Charles is no exception.
Wise words should be shared
That’s so interesting how people hear things differently. My favorite parts of the song are the ones that got you frustrated because they sounded so interesting. And when it was “fixed” it became so basic to me. loved the theory parts though
That's the problem with trained musicians of a certain type. Everything has to be pulled closer to the genre they are most familiar with.
I felt this! The "fixed" parts sounded actually more plain to me
Austin Shoupe yea wtf nothing wrong with learning music theory i do it my self. But there is no wrong or right in music . If something sound nice it sound nice who cares whats within bounderies
It sounds plain because it removes all the tension from the progression. The f note he's talking about takes you further away from "home" which results in greater relief later. Good song writing choice in my insignificant opinion. "Fixing" it just removes all the spice lol
@@Julius_Smith he's actually doing the opposite. The original is remarkably devoid of tension or direction. It's also just a bit clunky. The 'fixed' version adds tension and smooths out the clunkiness, but that brings it closer to cliches that already exist.
Nobody can make a critic, from any point, cause is "hate". This guy makes sense in every point he made, and he wasn't rude or disrespectful, that's his opinion.
For those who also read this upwards of 5 times trying to decipher it, I think he meant 'critique'.
@@baronvonbeandip I'm so sorry, English is not my first language, I don't express myself properly.
@@Death6man It’s okay, I got what you meant, and you made a really good point.
fans are toxic and basic
Thing is, doesnt it matter wheter people can vibe with the Song like, whats the Point telling people the notes are false, If they still enjoy the Song? Theres also Songs that give a certain vibe because a false or unusual Note ist played in the Beat And you can find that in many genres. And btw i dont even Like the watermelon song
I love this comment section
No one is yelling saying “UR AN IDIOT AND U SUCK”
It’s a very peaceful discussion and it’s very inspiring for someone who enjoys learning more about music. Point is
Music people have big wrinkle brain energy
I'm gonna use big wrinkle brain energy to refer intellectuals from now on.
Phoebe Amadore this is a big wrinkle brain energy moment
✨ᵇⁱᵍ ʷʳⁱⁿᵏˡᵉ 𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝑒 𝓃 𝑒 𝓇 𝑔 𝓎 ✨🤟😌
yeah I like that everyone is discussing this in as mature way.
Same
it's interesting because harry himself talked about how they worked on this song for over a year and that it was a really frustrating song to complete, and for a long time he really hated it. when you look at this song alone it seems like a standard pop song with nothing to it, yet I think that it actually shows the variety that harry has in his music, considering the other songs on fine line and his first album explore many ideas that are not typical mainstream pop, and you find that his favorite songs he's made are those less mainstream ones
thank u!! someone had to say itttt
he also mentioned the lyrics didn’t make sense LOL it’s because they’re mostly sexual innuendos hahahaha
Great insight! I think it's unfortunate that sometimes the best material from an album is the least broadcast because maybe it gets deemed less marketable. It's hard to say where the line is between it being our fault as consumers or labels' fault for just money grabbing and manufacturing "hits." I made this in part because I know Harry has made some really cool stuff and this is nowhere near what he can do!
TOTALLY AGREE😍👏🏼
@@CharlesCornellStudios it's also important for fans to realize that videos like this are not attacks on harry as an artist, but rather an insight to what is happening musically. I totally agree with you and enjoyed what you had to say, even as a fan of his.
"I'm not mad, just disappointed" sorry dad
Sorry Alex Turner
Sam Maloney if this was twitter, you would have started a war by saying this lmfao
👁👄👁
@@camille1368 He probably already started a war right here, we just haven't seen the replies yet.
Sam Maloney I strongly disagree, but I respect your opinion.
@Sam Maloney Despite the fact i can see your point in some ways and respect your opinion, you more than likely needed to be briefed on Charles' opinion of this song's structure as you more likely than not would have applied your stubborn persona to never giving Harry's music the benefit of the doubt.. My point is you should not immediately judge Harry's abilities as a songwriter/composer, based on what you hear here, genuine artists will write many songs, not all necessarily hits, with 9/10 of the results proving to go nowhere and end up as mistakes. These artists also have their own personal taste and will create and base their on music on what inspires them, nothing wrong with this whatsoever and in fact Harry's confidence in his abilities should be applauded. I urge you to look upon your own musical idols and, without bias, consider the possibility that they're not all Godlike and do in fact make bloopers.
4:30 "not completely devoid of definition."
Hey Charles, I've been trying to work out lately. Glad you noticed the improvements.
Name checks out
Nice
Why is no one talking about how he can literally listen to the song and then figure out the chords like that I wish I could do that
Cause we don't need another perfect pitch meme
With ear training it's reasonable for a musician to develop a good relative ear. Many musicians play by ear after years of practice, it's not too outlandish
That’s what I was thinking???
Its not nessiserily perfect pitch, thats what music students go to music school to do. Some noodle around, some struggle and cant get there, and some get there easier than others, some struggle and do get there over time. Its called music theory and aural skills it isnt just music talent. Musicians have to work at it too. Especially the ones that dont have perfect pitch, but the thing is, its learnable with effort.
its surprisingly easy with practice and knowledge of theory. Genres have very defining harmonic "stereotypes" that, once you know em, you can replicate them easily. Music school gave me endless headaches, but fuck if I cant pick up on stuff I hear in a moment.
The way he played the song by ear
Fam
You dropped this
👑
Right, I wish I could play like that but I never could even start piano until I was like 15 and by then I could never get to this level
I don't know why I said dang, but just, yeah. lol
@@leightonvanderesch277 you can get to this level it just takes a little bit of time each day. 15 minutes a day makes a huge difference over the years. You might not be as young as him when you reach that level, but you started later anyways.
@@leightonvanderesch277 wtf bro there is no age to learn piano, stop making excuses, and if you want to play, just practice
@@arthurhaag9434 I can play, I can play quite good actually. But I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I can just pick out that song. I practice an hour 3 days/week
I love how he forgets what the heck he's doing halfway through and just starts going to town on the keys. And I was like, "I think he's on to something".
I read this as it happened. Awesome.
Hearing the song on the piano makes me realize how similar it sounds to every other summer hit song.
as he was playing the chords I realised it fit with blinding lights by the weekend
He sounds like a dad when he says "I'm not mad just disappointed"
MY dad, specifically
im not dad, just misappointed
Sounds like a Diary of a Wimpy Kid line too...
My friends and family say the same thing.
Hey, 2k views in 10 minutes is pretty close to 12 million overnight.
30k views in an hour is pretty close to 12.5 million views overnight
Hey, 42k views in two hours is pretty close to 12.5 million overnight.
Hey, 70k views in 3 hours is pretty close to 12.5 million overnight.
Hey, 80k views in 4 hours is pretty close to 12.5 million overnight.
1 view In one year is pretty close to 12 million overnight
"The summer song for 2020" lol I know he said he's not looking into lyrics, but................... the song is NOT about fruit Charles
sadly
Watermelon sugar is shit tho
Wait what? 😳
a confused person LMFAOO yeah we’re not really sure whay it’s about but we know it’s not fruit w sugar
Zahria Spencer are we not sure tho?
"So it's in C, right?"
In that moment, he wasn't the only one disappointed and frustrated.
Edit: Before replying with new criticism, please do read what has already been said or debunked before. Thank you! :D
What's wrong with C?
@@Sh-ws5jd There's nothing necessarily wrong with C. It's just very basic and I personally associate children's songs for example with it, since a lot of children's songs were in C major when I first learned my instrument.
Personally I think the key in which a song is played has a lot of influence on a song. For example there's a big difference between c minor and a minor (c minor sounds a lot darker than the milder a minor, and c sharp minor for example sound a lot more aggressive). So I feel like picking C major is being a bit lazy.
Of course I understand that he has to be able to sing in that key and it has to sound good, I'm just a bit judging of C major (and apparently 77 other people agree).
@@freshpinkapples7618 you can do a glissando on the piano if you're using c major scale lol.
@@freshpinkapples7618 I don't understand your point, at least in equal temperament, which is the one more or less all keyboardists use. The "color" you're talking about, is that inherent to the key or just related to your memories? Also, I don't really get like, why C would be lazy... Ok it's only white keys on a keyboard, but that does not predetermine what you gonna do with them.
@@link1628 Maybe it is just what I associate with memories and I sound like a crazy person. I was trying to think of a time that my piano teacher told me something like that, but now I'm struggling.
I didn't mean to sound snobbish if I did.
I think it's just an illogical opinion. Sorry, man, if I offended you.
Who else thinks Charles should do a long livestream of “noodling”
Me man
@@龙金-g4z Meeeee
Was just about to say this exact same thing.
Id literally just watch him practice scales for 9 hours
noodling one time in the band room ended in one of my pals dropping his pants in the piano
epic day
7:49 “C major scale contains ‘F’! Sure does!” Me: “Finally some theory I can understand!” 😂
Exactly. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I read this the exact time he said it perfectly
Loooolll same
Best comment on the video:
Harry: Breathe me in, breathe me out
Corona: That’s what I’m talking about
😂😂😂😂😂
Haha lmao
🤣🤣🤣
Ha ha ha
Honestly, I personally appreciate your honesty, Charles. Thanks for being willing to share your unique perspective of this song with us, it's quite refreshing to hear.
“The lyrics don’t make sense!!”
*Harry stroking a watermelon*
Me: this makes perfect sense
Edit: wow I can’t believe how viral this went thank you everyone!
Elizabeth Axler he’s not just stroking a watermelon, he is having a stroke
Hahaha
@@KalpagniLantern its a very sexual song about 69-ing
Still doesn't really 💀
Bg Jimy It makes perfect sense once you know what it’s about, and the mv gives plenty of hints.
When he just starts jamming, I can't even tell if he is still using the song as reference, it just sounds so much better
Charles having manic twitches while telling me he’s disappointed is giving me “conversations with my dad” vibes.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who got dad vibes from him. It sparks memories of my dad trying to teach me math lmao
Manic?
He'll be like Zizek in 20 years
Random but I think I've seen your comments on his other videos😂
Y'all have conversations with your Dads?
As a person who has practiced classical music for more than ten years, is a jazz fan and enjoys pop music, I think people who know strong music theory are sometimes stuck in the ideal chords combination. Sometimes jump outside the box bring more surprise, at least; that is what I felt when I heard the intro of this song.
Yeah, it’s pretty silly to critique a song just for experimenting with different note progressions and whatever.
Right! The unexpected movement of it is what makes it an earworm! He's totally missing the point.
Absolutely, thank you
I think it's pretty rich to suggest that an _improvisational jazz_ musician doesn't like something because he's "stuck in an ideal chord combination" and needs to "think outside the box."
I mean, if you watch any of his other videos, one of the things he does _constantly_ is pause a composition and go "whoa, did you hear that?" and explain how unexpected and unusual it is. Charles Cornell _loves_ to be surprised and _loves_ it when pieces go outside the box. It's kind of the core of Jazz as a genre. To a trained ear, there is a huge difference between something that is unusual or unexpected, and something that just sounds sloppy and doesn't work. This piece is the latter.
Yeah I feel like sometimes people who study too much music theory are stuck in ideas how things should be and what is correct. But there is not actual right or wrong.
Honestly think Watermelon Sugar is a bop, and I never had an issue with the 4th over the tonic chord. It seems like tension that gets resolved. Granted, I wasn't even thinking much of the effect of a F over a C chord. I think it sounded fine. Love the breakdown tho! Had me thinking differently about a song I like.
Seems to have worked for a lot of composers historically, ^oo^
Same. I think most of this opinion based and I’m kind of disappointed with him that he would make such a judgy opinionated video :S
@@FreaquedeMusique Its called criticism.
It's not judgy and opiniated. He's just analyzing it musically.
@@vampy22693 constructive criticism
Idk, I personally like it as is. It has a different and specific vibe. Not everything needs to be perfect on a technical level, in my opinion.
Yeah I totally agree!
Sure, but again, he keeps saying that it's his opinion, that's also backed by technical knowledge.
Big fan of Harry here and just want to mention one thing: this song was released in December and wasn't lazily made to be a summer hit... so yeah. Fair points otherwise
True, but it’s only being released as a single off the album now, in time for summer. So there was some planning behind it being for summer, not necessarily lazy tho
It still be sounding sucky tho
smokee1325 True true. I think it was more of a -they wrote and then realised the summer hit potential-! 👌🏼
As a Harry stan, I really don't understand why his stuff like Watermelon Sugar goes viral when he has so much else that is so interesting!!
I agree Harry is talented, but this song wasn't for me, it was try hard as was the video.
I actually, weirdly enough, enjoy the incompleteness of the song. It kind of gives the song this lazy, unfinished summer project vibe. And frankly makes a generic pop song a bit more unique.
I'm enjoying your description, and a fair point, ^oo^
Yeah, kinda got a point there
Yeees~ thank you. I wasn't sure how to describe it. :D
i agree - sometimes something that doesn't make perfect musical sense can be very sonically interesting and get across a certain vibe - to me it does communicate the aimlessness of summer
Exactly. There are things I personally think this song could do better but Charles absolutely fixates on that pre-chorus 'breathe me in...' melody and clearly doesn't get how that section and the first chorus sets up the following verse where the groove kicks in. I personally enjoy how that melody there, as simple as it is, builds some tension without moving the song away from the 'vibe' (I know it's a bollocks word but it'd kinda useful sometimes) that's set in the first verse. The chorus melody is ridiculously simple but the harmonies that get stacked on it as the song builds end up making it quite enjoyable to my ear. The big pop 'we've arrived' moment is definitely the 'I just wanna taste it...' section anyway.
I'd be interested to see what he'd actually offer up as an alternative. The noodling in the video may have offered up some 'technically' stronger melodic movement but it just sounded a bit Disney (kinda dramatic and obviously with both feet in one place emotionally) to me and really wouldn't fit the vibe (again, sorry) of the song.
I think any argument that it was cynically written as a last-minute summer tune is completely undermined by the fact it was released last year. The musical choices made make sense to me and there's a clear sense of where the song's moving to, not just what's best for the section if you cut it out of the song and view it alone. I think the changes Charles (sort of) suggests would completely change the song and make it feel very disjointed. I think when you can't pinpoint exactly what isn't working for you, musically, you just have to admit that it's just a case of it not being your personal preference.
TL;DR: Harry Styles should have used an F#
TL;DR: Don't use F, F is a bad one.
Yes he should've used the F so he could F off with his magnolianic pop by numbers
@Michael B Indeed, in jazz surcles it's considered good practice to replace all F's with F#'s, as the note F just doesn't cut it in more sophisticated music.
Ahhhhhhh. Music to my ears
No, because first of all F# is not in the key of C, in fact, it’s literally the farthest you can be from the key of C.
This was the longest version of, "E and F sound weird together," I've ever heard.
as a die hard harry fan, i'm so upset that this song had to be the one getting all this hype when his entire first album was a zero-skip classic rock album and there are so many fantastic songs on fine line as well... i guess that's how music business works, release all the mainstream pop songs from your album (literally, every single one, and that was the entirety of the singles for fine line) and you'll get a bloody grammy nomination when your first album was entirely slept on by the general public.. i'm just upset that due to this, we've now come to the point where Charles has to make a video about how this huge hit single doesn't make sense, when we could've had him be amazed by other songs that NOBODY KNOWS bc they're not singles. i'm mad. that's it lol. i agree Charles, you did what you had to
I also really liked the first album!
I agree so much
The issue seems to be right here, yet people look right past it. The reason Charles doesn't get the hits like this 'bad' song is precisely because it tastes bad to him. It's like serving salad and wondering why everyone is buying the ice cream next door, 'dont they know ice cream is bad for you?' They don't care it's bad for them. They like it because it's an ear worm that sets a relevant mood. They don't care it's simple, 'doesnt make sense', or anything else.
I think the answer to your query is simple, it's personal preference. His first album was not a super hit cause people didn't enjoyed it as much, on the other hand I would assume that most people loved listening to watermelon sugar and thats why it's a hit song. At the end of the day music is a personal preference and all of us have got their own taste and we should not judge people on the basis of their palette
All three of his albums have been great, but I preferred his first two over his latest one.
Who else loves it how Charles doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings?
Sam Maloney welp thats you.
Sam Maloney there’s one thing with going to the point, and it’s another thing to be rude. When trying to do the former, we end up doing the latter
He's apologizing too much. It's constructive criticism. No reason to feel guilty, especially if you're right.
Sam Maloney Think I agree. Sure, it isn’t good to be an asshole, but it seems to me that ensuring at all times that the person(s) you’re speaking to aren’t offended just accomplishes the obscuring of truth. Often times, the truth hurts.
Take the above’s point with constructive criticism, for example.
A Toilet It’s not just that. Charles is aware that he’s talking about music, not theoretical physics. Besides the theory, everything always reduces to personal taste, and you can feel that every time he’s tempted to impose his own view on something so subjective, he feels genuinely remorseful. It’s funny and a bit frustrating to watch him squirm this much, but I personally prefer it to the average cynical “I know it all”. UA-cam is already full of them.
When he said harry styles released new songs watermelon and sugar i was like wasnt it released earlier?? Then checked youtube to see that it was his official Video that he launched... The song was out 6 months ago..
it came out in the winter lmao
It was released in the album but now it’s being rereleased as a single to be played on the radio etc, which isn’t all that uncommon :) it makes sense as a “summer hit” so that’s probably waited so long to release the music video and the single
The official music video came out 2 days ago as you search watermelon sugar it's the first result. Now you're just being willfully ignorant to make a joke.
he explicitly said music video
imma push back for a second. when i heard it the first time, i was just as confused as you were, trying to find the tonic and make the melody make sense. but one day, it clicked that the song isn’t in C major but D minor. If you hear it in that key, the melody makes 100% sense. Now, that E minor chord has no business belonging in a song in D minor. The G major works fine as a major six. I love that it adds a sound that we don’t hear in everyday pop music. But that E minor is what throws the whole song for a loop. So yeah I understand your frustration, but it’s much better to listen to when the D is a repeated tonic note instead of a repeated ninth.
Reading this is like trying to read another language like I’m in awe you’re like a genius to me how do people understand these things woah
Wouldn't that make it Dorian, and not minor?
I’m a bit confused. There’s no E minor in this song. The chords are Dm Am C G... and the G is actually a major four, not sixth. But I do agree with you, the song is not in C. D dorian makes more sense.
1. There's no Eminor in the song, are you talking about the C? 2. I really don't think it's in Dminor, it might sound like it for a few seconds in the pre-chorus but the melody for most of the song clearly suggests Cmajor/Aminor as the key center.
lol i’m dumb y’all are right it is Am. But yeah Dorian would make a lot of sense.
Disclaimer: I’m not a fan of this song, but I think it sounds clear to me that this isn’t in C Major but D Dorian. D is definitely the central note and it makes more sense when you analyse it relative to D, not C. I’d be interested in Charles’ thoughts and if this changes anything.
I absolutely agree
WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT MODES ARE NOT KEYS ;-;
@@Ragplayzz So we just say Dorian? Without the D or C? How do you know which Dorian it is if it's in the key of F?
@@OfoeNelson no it's in the key of C but the mode could be anything . But the key doesn't change
@@OfoeNelsonehh sure be d Dorian would be more specific
“watermelon on the table... tastes like strawberries?” oh honey. he’s not talking about the watermelon lmao 😳
That’s just what I was about to comment😂
Still lame haha
@@TheClevelandSteamer just like your useless comment hun
Aint nobodys vag taste like strawberries either lets be honest
Lauren B there's plenty of lame shit on UA-cam with millions of views lol
Did he just rhyme “strawberries” and “more berries”??
truly a poet.
also with "your belly"
It might be mulberries
@@soriasoda4038 just as bad
At least it's not the same exact word, technically...?
This is such a pleasing song to hear, I love the brass at the end... I really like the song, it’s okay being simple, not all songs need to be super complex. I actually love how to “pre-chorus” breathe me in breathe me out sounds, it’s good for a pre-chorus
The really cleaver thing is it fits because if you listen to the lyrics he’s literally saying “I couldn’t ever go without” the sound reinforces the feeling that something isn’t quite right an something is missing, it’s actually a sad breakup song
Alternative title: *Charles being a frustrated dad for 14 minutes and 12 seconds*
Thank you, VeganFunnyCat.
You mean "Dumb Meme title for Dumb Internet Kids".
2:20 oh you precious little soul honey sweetheart. The song isn't about literal fruit
Hahahahaha
Rafael Santos the songs off a production line, I doubt the laptop that randomised this sequence of lyrics even knows what the hell its about! There is a thing called irony, it's very subtle
mono lith oh honey, no. It’s really about... just watch the video...
Maria Del Castillo I did honey
It is about the joys of mutually appreciated oral pleasure is it really hard to understand lyrics? Even after seeing the mv? 😭
Me, a jazz major: Oh yeah I know that F note my god. *Continues to enjoy the song secretly*
The F works fine. It's deliberate dissonance ... its funny seeing a jazz pianist get so worked up about a little dissonance.
@@sacredgeometry Dissonnance is cool, and there's nothing wrong with it, but there are weak and strong decisions. Now the defiition of weak and strong may vary according to the individual, but to me that F sounds very much underwhelming and weak as a decision. My ear just perceives it as something that doesnt add anything to the melody and instead kinda makes it annoying.
I am dissonance's strongest advocate I love me some crunchy chords and lines, and the use of Major triads with the added fourth is something im familiar with HOWEVER it needs to done a certain way for it to really add the color of the fourth and in that context my ear doesnt perceive it as an "intentional use of dissonance"
This is all obviously my opinion and take on it, I just think its a very underwhelming song melody wise
@@charles-antoinepouliot6675 Always choosing strong decisions makes music boring.
I am definitely someone that does that. My music favours consonance and strong decisions and as a result is utterly mundane an uneventful.
@@sacredgeometry Strong decision does not mean consonant tho, Hard dissonance can be a strong decision, I agree that music that is too safe lacks emotional content and is mundane and uneventful. I love me some dissonance, but some decisions feel stronger than others, those can be consonant or dissonant, it's just that this particular dissonance, I thought was a very weak choice. But I completely understand your point.
@@charles-antoinepouliot6675 I know which is why I specified both.
"Musically *USELESS* !"
Damn Charles, you *harsh* as heck boiiii
NII T. I think he was being kind, considering...
mono lith ok Sherlock
The whole point behind the song is that he’s singing in a vibe that gives off the impression of D minor. the way you’re looking at it is a song in the key of C that’s supposed to resolve in C. That’s why you’re getting so frustrated.
EDIT: as many have pointed out, D Dorian is actually a better fit. Thanks for the likes!
indeed. just reeks of [ii] lol
welcome to jazz lol
Exactly! It was frustrating to watch him get frustrated lol
THANK YOU
Exactly. AND also it's boring.
Charles: but do *all* the notes fit in the chord they're supposed to be in?
*Jacob Collier has entered the chat*
Imants Smidchens 😂
Remember when he sang hallelujah in C but then 5 min later he do black key gliss 🤣🤣🤣
💀💀💀
Yeah, but you know that Jacob would take better responsibility of the notes. Each single one would have a place to go :)
@@RRDio because he wasn't in C by then..
We all got this recomended 8 nonths later
9 months for me lmao
@@guadalupe3759 same
What is a nonth
@Zapping Gaming same
I think youtube and the music industry are working together to rob us all lol
This “summer hit” was released in December Sir
but the video was just released, and money pushed into it being a single now. keep up
That's summer for me :)
Phoebe Takarua australien?
Argentina people like me, in summer: S U M M E R H I T
@@dantenavoni summer hit y eso ni se escucha aca, ponen cualquier cosa 😔
from my understanding of music theory, its all about explaining how different styles of music work. Analyzing a pop song from a jazz theory perspective wont make sense in the same way that analyzing a jazz song from a baroque theory perspective wont make sense either.
I remember freaking out about the I-V-IV progression (all root position) in baba o'riley bc my teachers said that almost never happens in chorales. But then i realized baba o'riley isnt a chorale. Its a rock song. Completely different from a theory perspective. Since a rock song isnt a chorale, you cant analyze it like it is one.
Agreed! I'm a classical pianist and I've done some arranging for a soul/r&b/jazz/gospel/pop acapella group and it took time to come to terms with having parallel fifths and octaves in the arrangements lol
Yes, but even across genres, physics and harmonics still work the same way. Sitting on the fourth degree of the major scale when you're playing a I (one) chord doesn't work in classical, jazz, or pop music because the overtones of the fourth scale degree are going to clash with the third of the chord. The third of the chord is the fifth harmonic of the root of the chord. If we're in C, like the song is, the eleventh overtone is closer to an F# than an F, which is why a #11 works as a chord extension, even though it's not in the key. In this case, the reason why the part of the melody that Charles was the most irritated by sounds bad doesn't have to do as much with style or conventions as it does with clashing harmonics.
Yes!!!
@@michaellasfetto5810 I think you're missing the point. I get what you're saying, but this song is about texture, not notes. The timbre of the voice is very distinct from the guitar. The voice has a floating quality, singing many 9ths and 6ths against the grounded guitar, which sticks to basic triads. It's really brilliant if you think about it. And then in the chorus, the vocals and the accompaniment align, and it sounds so solid compared to the ethereal quality of the verse.
I had a fellow in the Conservatory that quitted his rock band because he realized they were doing a lot of parallel fifths and octaves 😂
Bruh, y'all are putting words into his mouth. He is just explaining how a pop song isn't that good from a musical theory standpoint, not that it completely ruins the song or that y'all should hate it.
Maybe take your own advice: "If you don't want to listen to him, just ignore it and move along."
Yes
This comment deserves so much more likes, i hate when people say things like “lol he’s just mad he can’t do it himself” or “XD he’s just jealous of Harry styles!!”. Whenever the hardcore stans see an alternative opinion they gotta take out their “you’re just jealous of their success” moves. Annoys me so much.
thank you!
I don't care for the song really but he did say that the song is "musically useless" right after he said he doesn't like tearing down music other people like. That's a direct quote and is not valid criticism in any way. It would be fine if he just went full harsh with it, thats at least honest. But when you tip toe around it and say pretty harsh stuff and then play coy, you look bad and invite your own harsh criticism.
Exactly!
I always say about songs like this- “It just doesn’t *go* anywhere”. He spams that one melody note so damn much it gets super old.
Yes, however you could argue that that is a part of the song’s appeal. It’s about a good summer time on a beach. No one’s trying to go somewhere on a beach - they want to stay and relax in the sun/atmosphere.
I feel that these are all great points but I also think a part of music is making “mistakes” and allowing change. Musicians need to be able to step outside of the norm and see what works. Love the videos!
Yes!!!
100000%
I agree but at the same time the mistakes that Harry should be making should be more about the stylistic choices in the songs he makes and not on a basic musical level. Emphasizing the perfect 4th on a major chord (really the only note in the major scale that sounds bad on the chord) is almost objectively bad sounding and I don’t think music being produced with an audience that large with likely multiple songwriters and people who heard the song before it was released should be making errors like that. But I totally agree that artists should be allowed to try new and unusual things in their music in order to grow.
@@rileytanner4476 But it isn't - the fourth over a major chord is a pleasingly empty and strangely dissonant sound - and some people like that sense of suspense, rather than a cheesily smooth and behaved jazzy drivel littered with 7ths and flattened 9nths, ^oo^
@@rileytanner4476 Sorry but you lost me when you used the word 'objectively' lol
Dad’s out here being disappointed meanwhile I’m lookin at that saxophone in the back wonderin when we’re gonna get a taste of it
Mhmmmmmm
Peep the bone too
No one's talking about the "aimless noodling..." sir, I could listen to that noodling for HOURS
It's noodling if you need it to "be going somewhere", rather than do something elaborate where it is. Schenkerian thinkers might like you to consider the entirety of Hindustani classical music to be "noodling". I, for one, disagree.
@@joshuabroyles7565 I’m probably One of the worst people to talk about Hindustani music, but doesn’t in build in intensity over time?
@@KnzoVortex Most music builds intensity gradually and releases it abruptly. Better music ramps multiple parameters of intensity and releases them out of phase with each other. Beethoven is pretty good at that, for example. The "going somewhere" in Hindustani music just tends to be an informationally denser version of where you start. In western tonal music, it tends to be where you first implied you were going, but after a collection of various sequential detours. Western listeners often complain that Hindustani music doesn't really go anywhere, but just makes a mess of where it begins. Nonwestern musicians from places like Bali sometimes complain that western music treats transposition, itself, as a meaningful form of elaboration. I have always been more sympathetic to the second kind of complaint.
You may also enjoy: online.ucpress.edu/mp/article-abstract/10/1/83/61797/The-Ramp-Archetype-and-the-Maintenance-of-Passive?redirectedFrom=fulltext
I was like noodle on loop please!
I love it when musicians just get lost in the music they're playing
As a huge Harry fan, I completely agree with you that this isn’t a great song. He has some incredibly good ones, but this one is just a basic “fabricated -for- radio” song. And as a pianist I was frustrated with the chord progression as well. Love your vids Charles!! :)
Agree
@Angel Cruz basically the song has an unnecessary sounds repeated and overused .
alternative title: charles cornell gets enraged over an "f" for 14 and a bit minutes
14 minutes of Cornell obliquely confessing that he has somehow never heard any Celtic or Slavic music.
@@joshuabroyles7565 I get the feeling that Harry Styles wasn't inspired by the celts and slavs for a song about tropical fruit ^^;
@@sammy3212321 Perhaps he was inspired by the experience of being British during the Summer. Have you heard ANY folk music from Britain?
just don't watch it then :/
Pretty sure an ”f” isn't the ninth in the key of ”c”. Just sayin’.
The song is about giving head not about the summer. It's pretty clear if you watch the video. Also, I don't really think he was trying to get a summer time hit out of this; the song came out like a year ago.
True - it was never meant to be a summer hit
You’re microanalysing. That’s not the main point of the video. The main point of the video is that the musicality of it is kinda bad
Vanillama728 The comment meant that he didn’t get the point of the lyrics in the video.
Mistinity the lyrics have nothing to do with the intention of a summer hit
I liked the groove. And the melody. One thing - the purposed Charles version of the melody sounds sort of 'safe'. Harry Styles version sounds with a bit of a tension. And I love that. It is not that the music has to always adhere to the rules. Make interesting melodies - break the rules!!! 😎😎😎🤘
I would love to see you tear apart “Girls Like You” if you haven’t already. Can’t stand that song
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THISS
YES!
I thought it was just way too repetitive and it got boring
i hate that one so much
Here is the issue when a person knows to much about something. That thing that you know to much, you basically stop enjoying and start criticizing. I believe, in music, there is no right or wrong, but what your ears understand and get used to it. All the issues you pointed about the notes not fitting in places, comes down to personal taste. Popular hits are not made for experts musicians, but for general public that just want to enjoy a new sound. Usually, music made by experts musician, rarely became a huge hit, because an expert want to put all their knowledge to the song, and it get so complicated, that regular ears don’t understand.
well said!
I partially agree, but I think it comes down to what kind of musician the person is as well. Just look up Jacob Collier’s process and his approach to music. He knows so much but yet isn’t restricted by conventions. He experiments and makes music that sounds good to him even if it challenges musical conventions.
my ears tell me it sounds decent but there is zero substance to this song
Even then too, good musicians are always learning. My old professor back when I was a classical music major was always striving to learn more or change her views on things day to day. This kind of narrowminded elitist look you get from some music majors isn't a good look. Some people get boxed in with theory, others don't, but this guy clearly does.
Kaila Karns Yup, I couldn’t have said any better.
i mean maybe i'm musically deaf or something but those parts that he disliked are my favourite lmao
You're not musically deaf for liking parts that someone more experienced liked. It means you have different tastes and a different understanding of music. Both you and Charles' opinions are completely valid, if you liked the music then that's great.
Yeah I liked that they're kinda different
5:28 I love how he casually gets carried away of what he’s playing
I kinda like when songs don’t fit the standard melodic sequences. Sure, they may sound a bit strange, and you don’t always know why, but it gives it a certain something.
Same here! In a way it’s refreshing to hear
Pleaseeee lmfao name 2 other songs then that ‘don’t fit standard melodic sequences.’ Unless of course you’re just saying this because you need to say literally anything justify stanning Harry Styles
@@nicvermin1550 😐
but it does follow standard melodic sequences, its kinda the hole point of the video, it follows without thought and somethings end up not sounding great
He didn't hold back this time...
I mean he's not wrong 🤔
I don’t really agree with him, but I respect his opinion.
it's just different
charles: “it was released at the perfect moment for summer!”
so... are we telling him the song was released on november 16th or...
Ahahaha nah let him have this one
to be fair his team did wait until now to really push it as a single and give it a mv in a clear attempt at making it a summer hit. nothing wrong with that, it’s a smart move
I mean technically if you lived in the southern hemisphere, it would've been almost summer when the song came out soooo
Bia Oliveira jeez learn to take a joke. not everything has to be literal and taken seriously, love.
I am a really big fan of Jazz. But this song is really nice, even though it is simple. There are just some songs that do the job and sound fun, they don't have to sound delightful every time. It just fits
**does a majestic representation of the song**
“something like that”
ah uh yeh this entire video is probably longer than it took to write the song. I hope so anyway
Damn y’all are weak. Hear one critique of a pop song you like and you’re like “this is why theory takes the fun out of music”
hahaha factssss but like there’s literally no reason for this dude to be hating on watermelon sugar like bruh if u don’t like it stfu harry is literally a mega star and prolly doesn’t give a fuck abt common sense
Anfernee Manansala he's just making a video lol
@@abm8249 dude this is just a video click away if you dont like it damn he's a jazz musician just having fun
I mean... What sounds good, just sounds good... When you put theory it can work but there are outliers that don't have an explanation in theory. For example: 8:18 he gives an example of a chord sequence in "I don't know if I could ever go without" with theory... And it sounds bad. Not as in it's unpleasant but it's not in the same ballpark as Watermelon Sugar
(And then again at 9:04)
"I'm not mad, I'm just dissapointed."
That hit a bit too close to home
Your name is Don't eat me...
Me and my tik tok overdosed mind:
cAnNiBaL, i'Ll EaT yOu Up😂
@@bruhitslily5404 ok....
@@bruhitslily5404 very cool kanye :thumbs_up:
Yup ughhhh.
@@bruhitslily5404 um..ok
It starts on the 2 chord not the 4. There's no F chord in this song. It's 2 6 1 5... It's a D Dorian progression. How did you decide this song is rooted on the 4 chord?? Very confused here.
I love watching people rant about things I have no idea about.
Like cords... and stuff...
not to be that annoying person but
chords*
@@reaganb6013 pretty sure that was the joke
@@andytrox well he DOES have no idea what he's talking about
@metronomband ikr I can't believe people still make that mistake
I find it lyrically repetitive, and not my favourite of his songs, BUT IT’S SO CATCHY. I think it’s genius in that sense?
It’s not catchy at all, for advanced musicians this is very shallow in the actual music 🎶
@@anitashullerpiano1211 good that normal people buy his music and album
Anita Shuller Piano to each their own. Still stuck in my head HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Anita Shuller Piano I’m an advanced musician, and I think it’s pretty good. The thing here is that people expect it to sound a specific way and follow “the rules” and be like any other song, he’s taking risks, and it turned out pretty well in my opinion
Sounds great to me. It adds an anxious flavor to the melody that, to me, pushes the piece forward.
Also this song came out months ago.
I actually love watermelon sugar, but I also loved the analysis of the song, thank you for expanding my knowledge.
1:03 Agreed. If many pop stars went this sort of acoustic/bar sound they would be more appealing to even more people. Just take a look at LP - Lost on You, everyone remembers that live version more than the original
I read it as pop tart
not to necessarily be a downer, but I don't think that's necessarily what he's talking about. it's not the style of watermelon sugar that bothers him, it's the strange / uninteresting melodic choices
He was more indie pop inspired with the album
@@ryans6741 true, it's just some random thought
I would say the "not memorable" opinion doenst really match with me having the song stuck in my had for a week when it first appeared in SNL. But that might be just me.
The word “Memorable” is referring to over a long period of time. We still remember some of Mozart’s melodies and some of Beethoven’s and Vivaldi’s and it’s been 2 to 300 years. I think that he means that this melody won’t last that long.
To be honest I don’t know I also would say “not memorable” isn’t a good phrase to describe it. I would’ve said something like “mediocre” or “generic”.
@@swiftsword6489 I get what you mean but 'generic' doesn't describe it either if it is uncommon to use a certain note over a certain key.
@@MAGNUSERNST Yea I agree with that. That was my mistake. Idk what other word would describe it.
Magnus Music honestly I kinda agree with you with the fact that the melody is memorable. That’s how pop music works I guess
The only sugars I want from Charles are these sweet music breakdowns
Is it wrong, that Im vibing with his Aimless Noodling?? 😂😂
We all bro we all
No Way
Here's my perspective: With the vocal line, Harry's deliberately trying to resolve to the 9th, which sounds like a resolution but with a yearning for something more (which the lyrics could suggest). I personally am a fan of resolving with extensions in the vocal line in pop music.
Or y'know, he's secretly implying that he wants to give the D.
No replies to this?? Fine I'll be the first: LMAO that 'the D joke' was great
Underrated comment, man
LMAAAAAAOOOOOOO
I’m really not sure if Harry Styles is focused on text painting.
Only trained musicians will get the “D” joke lol
His frustration gives me life
I KNOWW
The thing for me is: it changes the sentiment of the song... every note he sings has a meaning or it communicates something, so if you change the melodies, it ultimately changes the song...
The same melodic pattern and behavior is not only used within the song for different lyrics, but across songs about completely different things. The melody is mostly pentatonic and a safe bet on any song - the notes were likely not chosen for any special meaning at all.
a main part of the video was him explaining how he didnt use any melodic devises to deepen his lyrics, he could've, but he didn't. different progressions, harmonies, intervals convey emotion and that's a huge part of music analysis to recognise small things like that.
@@ericssonhatfield3252 I think they were chosen because they thought the feeling of that sequence was right for the song. It gives "meaning", a sentiment to the song. Besides, you can tell lots of different "stories" with the same pentatonic scale. I think it's a cool sequence of notes that makes the song special and catchy. But it's ultimately like colors on a painting. Some people like it, some don't.
It was written on the guitar, and I enjoy that eclecticism with that f over c major. It's a saccharin pop song, but I love it. It's not shine on you crazy diamond, it's a summer pop song.
I still can't find the F on the progression, it's Dm7 to Am?
@@legnaleama He referring to the F in the melody over the c major chord
As the film “Brassed Off” taught me: “You’ve got all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order”
They got it from morcambe and wise who did it a couple a decades before!
me: a non-intellectual who doesn't understand music theory
👁👄👁
I feel u
It's like a whole other language
Okay this is the biggest mood mmm
I did not understand one bit of what he said. Or for that matter any of his videos but i still watch it through😂😂 Anybody?
@@abhinavajith92 I think I started to understand some bits here and there after consuming so many YT music content. I never had a music class in my entire life.XD
Please put your “aimless noodling” of this song on Spotify 😭
Lamao
@@michaelmoss267 Laughing ass my ass off?
@@tuhmater2985 xD
@Tuh Mater bro it’s 4:29 everyone’s asleep, and the walls are thin. I’m on the toilet reading this comment, I’m trying to hold my laugh.
@@tuhmater2985 laughing ass off mein
now imagine me, the schools resident harry styles stan who is also enrolled in the jazz program. it's been rough
this is the fastest i’ve ever clicked for a Charles video
Okay but same
same
you always have to click fast when he uploads
Fastest ever closed Pub
Jk I actually don't own a Pub sadly
Same
I disagree- I think he created the exact sound that he wanted. He was going for a really fun, vibey and happy summer sound, which he achieved and executed (imo) perfectly. His music is so unique in comparison to what is being released right now and I absolutely LOVE what he's doing
I’m totally with you on this
I understand what ur saying, and its hard to marginalize any type of music to one genre or “rule”. But I think Charles was going for something that was more sonically pleasing. (explaining on how Harry using the F on a cMaj) which isn’t wrong. It just doesn’t feel right. I feel that he would benefit from making his music more “unique” if he used the c Lydian scale which is using the sharp F. Sorry for ranting lmao but i understand where ur coming from.
Can't a fun summer song also be a little more creative? I don't really know Harry's songs that well, but this one in particular doesn't seem to be any different from other artists and songs released today... Four chord structure (I-V-vi-IV), heavy production, repetitive melody...
That said, there's nothing wrong in liking songs like this. Is just that it could be MORE, and the potential is, as the video title puts it, frustrating.
I believe he is coming from a professional musicians point of view not only just a listener or fans view.
This dude would most likely go into cardiac arrest if he was to listen to Bob Dylan.
Lmao
UNDERRATED COMMENT LMAOO
Vov Dylan? meh confused
I think this is an example of letting your brain get in the way of having a good time. Sometimes things don't have to be that deep.
Love you Charles but gotta disagree with you here. In my opinion the “off” notes in this sound make it sound refreshing and new. Not every song needs to follow conventional rules! Personally this is one of my favorites from the album^
I totally agree, I think the melody going back to the 4 a bunch adds some interest. I think the song in general is mostly just vibes, like put it on in the background at a BBQ or something. The melody is not what makes this song sorta meh.
Klara Jurcic he is very original. i- have you heard his entire fine line album & self titled album?
TOTALLY AGREE ☺️
Klara Jurcic I mean it’s more original than most of the music I’ve heard out there,, ofc everyone has their own opinions but still lol
totally agree
The first chord is not really an F, Harry’s using a Dm7, if you had used D minor, most of the melodic lines are pretty coherent. Actually the entire song is in D dorian (even if it shares the same notes as C major, it’s not c major), Harry only uses the D minor pentatonic as his melody, with an added 9th, which is pretty common (notice how he never uses any B’s and only uses two F’s). The only really difficult thing about the song is the melody at the end of the bridge, but other than that it’s not at all incoherent or weird.
You're right about one thing, it's a Dm7 not an F
Every website I found showed the key of the song as C. It also has a Camelot value of 8B which also means that it is in the key of C major.
John Balke the thing is the song doesn’t feel like c major. You know how people often say that sweet home alabama is in G major, when it really feels more like a D mixolydian? The same goes for this song, even if the notes the song uses are in the key of c major, the song doesn’t have that feel.
And thats on perfect pitch
This conversation looks so interesting even if i don't understand a word
Personally, I find the shift from traditional patterns and structured music refreshing. Hearing music that makes unexpected moves and changes is new and I like that.
Totally! Even better is that we all hear it differently and will likely come up with totally different results as to what we prefer and don't prefer.
Hey if you want something unexpected check out old Genesis stuff, King Crimson, Yes, and Tony Banks
Thank goodness I’m not the only one who felt so! Sure it’s a fun song but that’s exactly what I felt when I was trying to play it. After phenomenal songs like Lights up, this was a drop. He still won a Grammy for this one haha.