@@bushranger729 i wouldnt say op just a very unexpected niche that worked well due to the metagame's top threats. overall after that one tourn win the set hasnt seen much play otherwise since yk... rock slide and heatwave exist. but its a pretty good set regardless. BRavo articone for opposing the steroetypes
Water shouldn’t resist ice. Water literally gets frozen. Also, if they made Ice resist dragon, they probably wouldn’t have needed to introduce fairy type in the first place.
It takes a lot of energy loss to turn water into ice. Water has a high heat capacity. Metals have low heat capacity which is why in winter metal cools much faster than water freezes. Aluminuim has less than 1/4 the heat capacity of Water while Iron and Copper have around a tenth the capacity.
IMO, there is no reason for ice to resist dragon. I do wish it would resist ground types though. What I take most issue with is that Gamefreak has just overall been unfair to Ice as a type. It's really only ever gotten nerfed in Gen 2 with the introduction of Steel and fire gaining a resistance to it, nerfing the one good trait it had of a high offense. Ice is also just the rarest type in Pokemon, even though it is as old as water or rock. Hail was introduced in Gen 3 and hail is just chip damage to non-ice types, which wouldn't work for you since you're never gonna build a full-ice team. Blizzard not missing in hail was also a Gen IV addition and the only mon to benefit from Hail in gen 3, AKA the release accompanied by hail, was Castform. From generations 1-8, there are very little actual things going on with ice types. I get that it was changed to a vastly better mechanic in 9, but still its rather insane to me it took this long to realize that Ice just needs a lot more going on than just "Spam ice beam" Also ice type moves are *super* widely accessible and fill important coverage, missing out on stab be damned when having Ice Stab means a super crippled defense.
We dont need to buff ice offensively. We need to buff it defensively. So Ice should resist Water. Scald can change to be a water move that is super effective against ice, like the inverse of Freeze Dry
Calyrex Ice Rider being part of the council is an interesting development. It implies that as long as you can be As One with a horse you can get on the council both figuratively and literally.
It’s ok though, it will be gen 10 that glaceon will finally have the utility, type resists update, and third ability that can allow me to survive more than 2 turns as a defensive sweeper. It will definitely happen… yeah…
I had some success early on with glaceon and abomasnow combo. I'd lead with them, abom was so slow I always got the weather set and would use it as a switch in if i suspected they were saving theirs, and would blizzard spam with max speed choice scarf glaceon while abomasnow set aurora veil. Surprisingly, when you have a 60% chance to land a freeze, and the defenses from snow+ aurora veil, they kinda work.
watching ice get worse and worse over the years and Cloyster the man the myth the legend not only hanging onto OU but achieving Uber status was inspiring to behold
The thing is that Cloyster was accidentally perfect. It is defensive enough that it can Shell Smash and it basically needs to Shell Smash to output the needed damage. It has almost all of the multihit moves so it can take advantage of Skill Link. With a White Herb it remains tanky; with a King’s Rock it becomes the premier flincher. And in earlier generations its tankiness meant something. Cloyster switched roles at the absolute correct time.
Electric, Fairy, and Ground resists would genuinely be the healthiest thing for the metagame. It's still almost always giving out a quad-weakness to Something, but it's also patching up weaknesses to some of the most spammable types in exchange for that.
Gotta love how gamefreak keeps making fat ice types without giving ice ANY OTHER RESISTANCES ASIDE FROM ICE ITSELF. Like even just making it resist water and ground on top of resisting itself would be a nice improvement.
Ice, Electric, Fairy, Ground would be a nice list of resistances. There's no type combo where that'd be broken, but it does create some interesting switch in opportunities, and also helps mitigate the spammability of those types.
This is literally the exact set of resistances I was thinking of. Either that or swap out either electric or fairy for a water resist. But what you've suggested is also perfect! Also, it would definitely help the fat ice types get some milage out of their typing defensively. Avalugg would probably get so much use at first lol
I feel like a very intuitive place to start would be to give ice type resistance to the at least some of the types that are weak to it. That kind of symmetry is very common on the type chart and could go a long way to making the type feel real defensively.
Typhlosion calling Macargo a snail after he worked so hard to rise to the top of the horse council is pretty mean. Think it's time to cancel Typhlosion
My absolute favorite Ice type is gen 5 Cryogonal. Free switch into EQ, and I love how it just barely outspeeds Garchomp. I used to run a boost set with Acid Armor to counter switch-outs. Definitely very gimmicky because it relies on the general ignorance of its speed stat, but it was fun to use.
Funny how many ice types have been getting banned to Ubers when they focus on the fact that it’s arguably the best attacking type (cloyster iron bundle G darm kyurem and more) the actual worst type is psychic which is a convo people need to have
Psychic is definitely struggling, but a legendary, a paradox Pokemon, and a Shell Smasher are aren't the best examples of Ice being busted, especially since they all also have the most powerful secondary types in the game with Water and Dragon. The Psychic/Water and Psychic/Dragon pokemon are also busted, and if any Psychic pokemon learned Shell Smash they would probably be busted as well. (Starmie with Shell Smash would be much stronger than Cloyster, for example.) There are also more Psychic Uber Pokemon than Ice Uber Pokemon. Ice has the misfortune of always making a pokemon worse defensively, and thus always being best used as a coverage option on non-Ice types. Psychic at least can help a Pokemon resist Poison and Fighting, which means you can use it to make a Fairy more well rounded defensively or have an easier time switching in on Fighting moves. Even if the actual moves need to be OP (Expanding Force) to be usable, at least the Pokemon themselves aren't especially suffering from having a Psychic type.
@@normal6483 what’s your opinion on psychic being weak to the ubiquitous knock off and u turn, that’s not something you can nullify with HDB, also I don’t see how being a paradox or legendary changes anything when lots of Pokémon are those and allowed in OU or tiered even worse lol, funnily enough psychic typing made another paradox mon in iron boulder drop off
@@jadonteino3438 Like I said, Psychic is still definitely in a bad place, it's just not worse than Ice. Knock Off and U-Turn weakness is really bad in singles for Psychic Pokemon that aren't also Fighting or Fairy. (Or that don't run an expendable item, since a bunch of secondary types can make U-Turn neutral and running a berry, sash, or other 1-use item makes Knock Off irrelevant.) And that's a lot of Pokemon. But Stealth Rocks is the worse weakness. Psychic types are neutral to it, and a good amount have Magic Guard or Magic Bounce to make hazards a non-issue. But Ice types have to run boots or have a dedicated teamslot for hazard removal, which is sometimes like running no item at all and other times like running with -1 Pokemon. You can counter Knock Off and U-Turn with good prediction, but Stealth Rocks has to be beat in the teambuilder, and at that point it's easier to just not run an Ice type.
Ice types can be busted, but given how bad Ice typing is it just means you made a very good Pokémon and slapped an Ice typing on it, not that Ice typing is inherently good. The exceptions are the Gen 1 meta where resistances to Ice are nonexistent nor are there super effective moves, and Alolan Ninetales who demonstrates the only advantage Ice type will ever have - the ability to set up both screens in one turn. Maybe at this point another advantage is that Ice types can increase their physical defense in Snow but most Ice types have pretty good physical defenses, but at least it provides something and is technically a counterpart to Sandstorm.
Game freak didn't have to nerf ice types in gen 2, they just needed to nerf blizzard and the freeze status effect. Making steel and fire types resist ice types was a masive mistake.
Fire resisting Ice makes sense to me, but I suppose an argument could be made that metals can be brittled down over time in extreme enough cold temperatures.
@@bdt2002gaming I get the Fire resistance. I think it makes more sense than the water resisting ice. My point is mainly that ice was a type that was good because only ice and water types resisted blizzard. adding more things that risist ice moves will undermine the type. I have a bigger isue with the steel type. Steel was a poorly tought out typeing that invalidated poison, rock and ice types, just to make fire and fighting types decent. it should have more weaknesses like electricity and water, it shouldn't have a normal resist and rock types shouldn't have a steel weakness.
I think there should be an ice move that is super effective against steel similar to freeze dry. If deep freezes and blizzards have taught me anything it’s that the cold can really F up infrastructure
@@usernametaken017there are a bunch of type interactions that should have always existed: Ice should resist Grass Poison should be super-effective vs Water Bug should be super effective vs and resist Fighting. Poison in water is pollution which kills marine life, and water pokemon = marine life. That's the biggest one, it'd be great for both logic AND balance, Water is OP and Poison needs buffs... Swarms of insects are the biggest counter to humans by far, no idea why fighting resists Bug, should be the other way around.
@@Jfrost9101 Furthermore, the better Ice type effectively are super effective against Water because of Freeze Dry meaning that conditionally Water is a weakness against Ice.
If we ever get an ice rock type that is even reasonably fast, it could become a complete nightmare to deal with. Been using a weavile rampardos fusion in infinite fusion, and it has hard carried my whole run, hits so many things super effectively
Honestly, I imagine Aurorus could be great in Sandstorm and Snow teams because it can take advantage of special defense and defense boosts so long as you max its speed. It’s a gimmick, but I feel it can work the same way fast Calyrex-Ice works in lower levels.
I have been having a blast with a (mostly) Ice team in both OU and UU (same team with slightly different EV spreads). Have gotten up to 1600-ish with it. Ninetales A - HP, Speed+ Slowking (Water) - HP, Balanced Def/Sp.Def Sandslash A - Attack+, enough speed to outspeed max speed Dragapult in Snow, HP Avalugg - HP, Def+ Frosmoth - Sp. Def+, enough speed to outspeed dragapult after 2 quiver dances, rest HP Chandelure - scarfed, Speed+, Sp Atk
Snow giving a defense boost is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of buffing Ice types. But what Ice types need is better type matchups. I've seen ideas being thrown around like Ice resisting Water, Ice resisting Flying, and even the idea of Ice dropping its weakness to Fighting. It would be neat if some resistances were given to Ice so it can develop a better defensive profile.
The funny thing is that the good special Ice-type attackers are already strong against Water because they have Freeze Dry. I would imagine Ice type could just be the type that could have unexpected super effective damage to all its weakness but it would be distributive amidst very few Pokémon since Ice types live on hitting things super effectively at this point or battering Pokemon with strong attacks. This is in addition to one or two resistances.
Trade evolution with the ice cream pokemon where the ice cream boi is actually in control, Lickitung is fully hypnotized by licking its new ice cream cone I'd name mine Patrick
Hello! Here as a Gen 4 enthusiast, adding a bit more about Abomasnow and Mamoswine. I'd say, Mamoswine first problem is really not even Stealth Rock, or it's weaknesses, it's really it's lack of Moves and SCIZOR. Offensive Steel types exist, but they don't really depend on their Steel STAB damage. Pokemon like Jirachi benefit from Serene Grace's Iron Head, but it would rather benefit from Psychic and Utility moves. And Metagross has the power to make Meteor Mash work, but focuses on other moves to finish off opponents or just Explode on them. Empoleon and Magnezone rely on their other types more for damage. That makes an environment that can fet caught off guard by Scizor and if youre not prepared, it can easily sweep your entire team. So Mamoswine doesn't have a lot of recourse besides a neutral Earthquake that may lower Scizor to red, but may never finish it off, and for that Mamoswine has to be at full health, and with Stealth Rock is a bit hard. Abomasnow: I've been trying to make it work and as Jimothy said, you CAN build a team around it, but its best asset is literally just setting Hail. Abomasnow can be a Sand team worst nightmare if played right. Ironically, I've been leaning into the Stealth Rock damage for a while. My set is: Item: Custap Berry Blizzard Substitute Wood Hammer Earthquake "That's a bit offensive for a frail, slow Pokemon, isn't it?" That's the Beauty of it. Abomasnow once hitting the field can lure enemy Heatrans, Jirachi and Metagross, which they get on a Substitute. Earthquake decimates Heatran, almost finishes off Offensive Jirachi, and does more than Half to Metagross. It can scare off most Tyranitar sets (except Fire Punch or Fire Blast) because most people are scared of taking the chance with Stone Edge. It's not meant to last long, and every switch in, drives it lower into that 25%, where it can drop a surprise attack. Did you say that a surprise Ice Shard could hurt Pokemon like Latias or Salamance? Imagine a full Priority Blizzard.
A single additionally resistance would go a long way to helping the Ice type. Fairy resistance would of course be fantastic but even something like a mutual resist with water or a bug or flying resist would open things up for ice mons a lot
I've been a big fan of Abomasnow since the beginning of gen 9 OU. It's in a low tier, but people get caught off guard by how bulky the new snow defense boost makes it, especially with Aurora Veil, and by how hard a leaf storm with SPA investment can hit. It can easily finish off a chipped Garganacl, Dondozo or Alomomola, or even OHKO them if they don't have much special bulk. Blizzard is also just a really nice big damage move that can be clicked repeatedly and isn't resisted by much. It's a solid switch-in to Ogrepon wellspring, provides a little counterplay to rain teams etc. I'm just really happy how the changes in the new generation made one of my favorite ice types playable.
Something worth pointing out: another thing that helped ice types in gen 1 is that fire didn't actually resist ice yet. So, for example, Charizard and Moltres were weak to blizzard.
Favourite Ice Type is Aurorus. Ice definitely needs some new resistances to help buff it a little more. Changing Freeze to Frostbite would be good, if they buffed the secondary effect rate on some moves that currently inflict freeze.The Snow change was definitely good for a start, but that's probably just a good general buff for Hail/Snow teams in general.
I think I’d like to see ice get water and dragon resists- this would help it check the offensive power of both and not leave it with some defensive identity
Ice type is the best type for one reason, possibilities, due to it having a single resistances and common weaknesses, it often needs an extra factor to make it better, and that is exactly what makes it good. Its what allows special abilities like thick fat and snow warning to help boost stats, its what allows Abomasnow and Alolan Ninetails to have great ways to increase their stats, or protect with aurora veil. Ice types have more lose restrictions for raw power, due to it being a glass canon, and when you find a team combo that helps get rid of the glass part of the canon, it dominates.
Jimothy when you finish the type's in competitive pokemon series, might I suggest doing the same thing but for little cup? I love these videos and I feel like you could do a similar concept there
I recently saw a video of someone attempting to argue that Ice type has a defensive identity because it has many defensively statted members (IIRC, it was about gym leader teams). I'm glad I'm not the only one that disagrees.
Hello your helpful gen 1 ou player here. Ice is actually not resisted by fire in gen 1 so there's also that nerf. Fire is still super effective it just doesn't resist. Hence zard and moltres have an ice weakness
I really wish Ice types had a way to influct a status that weakened special attack. Electric gets paralyze to weaken speed while being speedy, fire gets will o wisp to weaken attack while being attackers, poison gets toxic and poison to weaken sustain while having access to good sustain. It just seems odd that a type with an affinity to special attacking doesn't get access to a way for the more supportive or defensive skewed of their types to control the special attacking side of things. Other than that, giving it more resistances is tricky. Grass and bug each seem like good candidates for it to resist, but at that point it basically just becomes a more offensively skewed Steel type
I think Ice should resist a combination of Water Bug and grass. All of these things hate the cold in real life, especially bugs and grass. Can u imagine that behind A Veil 😩
Chein Pao had Higher attack before the game released. The Treasures of Ruin were all nerfed before release which is why the have base 570 instead of the usual legendary 580. Chien Pao had 130 base attack down to 120, Chi-yu had 145 base Special Attack down to 135, Ting Lu had 165 base HP down to 155 and Wo-Chien had 5 points removed from its offensive stats. Post Nerf Chien-Pao has the same base attack but an ability that effectively increases it.
If they want to keep making it the glass cannon type then I say they should go even further and make it super effective against fairy and bug. But honestly all I want is to resist water.
Weavile is my favorite. Gen 6 OU is my favorite tier and it functions something like a Gen 3 Aerodactyl with its great speed, powerful STAB, and cheese potential with Icicle Crash. Of course, it also gets priority Ice Shard and is one of the best users of Pursuit. But outside of its competitive viability, I just love its design; it's an Ancient-Egyptian looking entity with cat and jackal features and great color scheme. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Smoochum is adorable and I do like Jynx a lot, especially when they made her look less like a racist caricature. And then there's Avalugg. I think it deserves a mention. Yes, it's the epitome of the faulty defensive Ice-type archetype, but those physical defensive stats are still great. Even its bad SpDef helps it give off strong Mirror Coats. It has great utility in Rapid Spin, it gets Recover, and has Sturdy. It's a solid table. Anyway, I don't think Ice is the worst type just because offensively it's great. Defensively, no contest, it's the worst though.
It would be a nice rework if freeze could have weak or strong variants that conditionalize the RNG roll on thaw Just based on what you mentioned about early Ice meta, having an Ice type was important to counter an opponent with freeze. You want that kind of stage presence in a team member. The ability to pressure an opponent can swing the match. And in prior generations, a frozen pokemon may as well be dead weight I've implemented so many options to Ice, including changing primary of a monster to also be Ice. I attempted to balance it by making frozen mons more susceptible to critical hits from fighting type moves. Although the caveat was that fighting is not strong to Ice in my mod From what I can tell about Gamefreak, they don't like compound features in their programming. It would be nice to sort of stack successive Ice type moves to either clear the freeze condition or maintain it as it affects the roll That's why things like hail becoming snow is interesting. We're moving away from abilities or conditions that resemble others just because. It's better to find ways to promote opportunities to shine and lend into the unique profile of a favored mon For such a weak typing structure, it just sounds like more fun to set the stage for a win condition albeit a niche one. Chilly reception coming from mon that resists Ice as it is seems like a step in the right direction. Imagine an Ice type that defogs upon Sunny day or being hit by a fire type move. Anything that doles out some viability instead of making an Ice type a sitting duck or useless because the meta can't account for it
I believe snow should get damage from rock type attacks reduced and sand reduce Ice damage, much like Sun and Rain do to each other. Getting rid of a weakness is always appreciated and aurora veil teams won’t have to worry so much about stone edge crits. Rock types could definitely use the buff as well essentially giving them a 5th resist but also assisting ground type team members on Sand who are commonly 4x weak to ice.
Bruh, you are just absolutely pumping out great content, I have never patreon subbed or paid a content creator for stuff beyond twitch prime, but damn youre earning my money, you're gonna be my first one lol
I think something that i dont see talked about regarding ice is how its' defensive weaknesses are worse than they would already be because they overlap with steel. Pokemon already want to slot in fighting and fire moves as coverage to hit steel types and ice gets caught in the crossfire. In a similar vein, the ground types ice wants to threaten are worrier about flying types, and will run rock moves to hit them, which also threatens ice.
I say give Ice a resistance to Dragon and Normal moves. Punching (fighting) ice will break it but anything less it won't. & Maybe a resistance to Water too
Glalie was an under rated ice type. I always liked ice. I think ice is the worst type but big has the worst actual pokemon. Just got leveled with stuff. I could see ice being resistant to bug, water, ghost, dragon. I actually think it would be cool if ice was immune to ice not just resistant to it. That makes sense just with how hail work.
I always loved how in gen 1 Ice was one of the best type arounds that's why it got featured on the Elite Four. 1: Fire didn't resist it and wasn't a good type overall, yup Charizard and Moltres were weak to ice. 2: Fighting types were nonexistant as psychic mons were everywere, also the best fighting move around was submission. 3: Blizzard used to have 90% accuraccy and 30% chance to freeze, one of the most spammable moves on the format. 4: Freeze was the most, absolutely broken status that ever existed, as mons couldn't get rid of it by chance,. If one mon got frozen, that was deadweight the rest of the match. Again, blizzard had almost no counterplay, and the only type inmmune to freeze was the ice type itself. 5: Rock types were somewhat popular, mostly Rhydon and Golem (Before the second fell to the bottom lol), but since those two were also ground types they were weak to ice, also stealth rock didn't exist. 6: Steel wasn't a thing, that means ice had no relevant weaknesses beyond rock, and it had counterplay towards it. 7: Not many meta mons resisted ice beyond the water types (Mostly Starmie and Cloyster) , and there were important meta picks weak to ice like Zapdos, Exeggutor and Rhydon, also the big three were normal types and didn't like to risk getting frozen. The only two mons who weren't afraid to switch into a blizzard were Cloyster and Articuno, ice types themselves. Not sure if this is unpopular, but I think ice was the third best type around on that gen, behind normal and psychic, and surprise! The big three normal types and physic mons liked to have ice coverage! Definetly among the best types ever.
Honestly, the question of what is the worst Type in the series is an interesting one, since each generation is so different and some things are better in single player than in multiplayer and vice versa. There are a few types that come to mind that aren’t very good in both of those categories, though: -Gen 2 Grass minus Celebi, who tends to artificially inflate the Type whenever it shows up (this is also when Exeggutor started to fall off too) -Gen 4 Poison, but specifically in the Platinum era (only Type to not gain any new Pokémon from the Sinnoh Dex expansion, and Sinnoh is rough for Poison in general) -Gen 4 Normal (Snorlax and Togekiss aren’t even true OU anymore, but even then Sinnoh might be Normal’s worst region, and this was also around Fighting’s peak) -Gen 6 Ice (literally the only good thing here is maybe the Defog buff, which also helped Fire; the OU Ices aren’t even that good IMO) -Gen 9 Bug in the current meta (Bug is arguably the type hurt the most by the addition of Tera, and most of the best Bugs beside Volcarona are gone)
I think Bug is consistently the worst throughout all generations. Besides a few standouts like Heracross and Scizor, the next time Bugs were getting any success was Gen 5 onward but by then, the other types were also getting buffed. The other types you listed have good qualities on their own at some point (Grass gained powder immunity, has excellent utility in things like Leech Seed and Spore/Sleep Powder, the only type to resist Water, Electric, and Ground at the same time; Poison is a great defensive type, immune to poison status, absorbs T-Spikes, and can't miss toxic; Normal has the hardest hitting moves and widest movepools+Ghost immunity; Ice can't be frozen and is great offensively). Bug is immune to nothing, weak to 3 common types including Stealth Rock, and resisted by 6 types. They are strong against Grass, Psychic, and Dark but those aren't very difficult to hit supereffectively with other better types that you'll have anyway. And yes the Fighting and Ground resistances are useful but so many Bug types have such bad stats that these hardly matter and you're usually better off using a Flying type to handle those (esp since Bug is resisted by Fighting). The good Bug types are typically good bc of factors other than just being Bug type. One thing I think they do the best is setting Sticky Web and that's only bc they typically limit it to Bugs. STAB U-turn and First Impression are cool but when you're weak to rocks, that kind of limits how much you can do it. That said, Lokix does it well and is one of the few that actually wants to be Bug type. And that's only bc Tinted Lens means it bypasses the usual bug resists anyway so it can actually get KOs and solid chip. Overall, I'd say Bug is the worst. I considered Psychic bc of a lack of relevant resistances or offensive matchups but they were great in early gens, esp gen 1. Plus, they have several interesting moves and gimmicks associated with them that I think warrants their use more than Bug.
my honest opinion is that even though ice is an awful defensive type psychic is probably worse overall because at the very least being an ice type gives you stab on a super cracked offensive type. the best offensive benefit psychic gives you is probably stab on future sight and sometimes stored power. and while ice does have MORE weaknesses i think psychic's are actually worse because knock off and u-turn are some of the worst moves to be weak to whereas the worst weakness ice has (stealth rock) can be mitigated with boots. bax and bundle probably would not have been banned if they weren't ice types but the psychic type on calyrex-shadow almost exclusively exists to make it worse
I fear that Magcargo's rise to power may prove to be a more sinister development in the near future, folks. It would be wise to air on the side of caution here.
Also in the ORIGINAL gen 1 (Red/Green) Blizzard was 90% accurate with 30% chance to freeze. The gen 1 cheese is the only thing keeping it somewhat entertaining.
Gamefreak and their incredibly strange balance choices that persist to this day. Ice types being super slow and defensive, still no good physical or special moves for certain types that desperately need them, Fairy resisting Bug for no reason, and still no accurate Rock move. Ridiculous.
If a disagreement arises between Magcargo and Typhlosion, I propose Rapidash as a mediator. Rapidash is both a Fire type and a horse, thus it can be considered an adequate equine. However, Rapidash doesn't have hands, so it cannot sign the peace treaty.
Make ice resist electric! Personally I think hail should have still dealt damage over time or had a secondary effect. Sun, rain, sand all have two effects.
While i personally love the water type i think it would be fair to give the ice type a resistance to water. Buffing the weaker ice type giving it a slight defensive niche as water resist is somewhat rare while also nerfing the water type which was been consistently one of the best across all generations.
Humorous Hats:
jimothycool.com
Are you ever going to sell an iron mugulis cap or an iron fellow shirt
@@usernametaken017I second this. Funny mascots are good
This hats are so humorous they make me wanna laugh
Jimothy Cool when he becomes an Ice Type (Jimothy Cooler)
Jimothy Cold, even
Terrastralization and its consequences
Wow... I feel bad now for watching a video with people commenting who are obviously a bit.. "Special"...
And fire type is just Jimothy
jimothy cool used chilly reception
4 common weaknesses
Resists only to itself
Super effective against 4 important targets
Game freak: make it the slowest defensive blob
Kid named Weavile
Oh boy, I can't wait to watch an hour of Articuno falling off a cliff
articuno tera ice blizzard spam was OP in doubles in SV
@@bushranger729 i wouldnt say op just a very unexpected niche that worked well due to the metagame's top threats. overall after that one tourn win the set hasnt seen much play otherwise since yk... rock slide and heatwave exist. but its a pretty good set regardless. BRavo articone for opposing the steroetypes
But it can fly tho
Water shouldn’t resist ice. Water literally gets frozen. Also, if they made Ice resist dragon, they probably wouldn’t have needed to introduce fairy type in the first place.
They should resist each other since they're both water
But when you think about it, ice does melt into water eventually so it makes sense it resists
It takes a lot of energy loss to turn water into ice. Water has a high heat capacity. Metals have low heat capacity which is why in winter metal cools much faster than water freezes. Aluminuim has less than 1/4 the heat capacity of Water while Iron and Copper have around a tenth the capacity.
IMO, there is no reason for ice to resist dragon. I do wish it would resist ground types though.
What I take most issue with is that Gamefreak has just overall been unfair to Ice as a type. It's really only ever gotten nerfed in Gen 2 with the introduction of Steel and fire gaining a resistance to it, nerfing the one good trait it had of a high offense. Ice is also just the rarest type in Pokemon, even though it is as old as water or rock.
Hail was introduced in Gen 3 and hail is just chip damage to non-ice types, which wouldn't work for you since you're never gonna build a full-ice team. Blizzard not missing in hail was also a Gen IV addition and the only mon to benefit from Hail in gen 3, AKA the release accompanied by hail, was Castform. From generations 1-8, there are very little actual things going on with ice types. I get that it was changed to a vastly better mechanic in 9, but still its rather insane to me it took this long to realize that Ice just needs a lot more going on than just
"Spam ice beam"
Also ice type moves are *super* widely accessible and fill important coverage, missing out on stab be damned when having Ice Stab means a super crippled defense.
We dont need to buff ice offensively. We need to buff it defensively. So Ice should resist Water. Scald can change to be a water move that is super effective against ice, like the inverse of Freeze Dry
We're forgetting an important piece of information: Ice floats in water. Water should resist ice.
Calyrex Ice Rider being part of the council is an interesting development. It implies that as long as you can be As One with a horse you can get on the council both figuratively and literally.
they're cold
Poor ice. Such amazing cool designs like alolan sandslash and hisuian avalugg, and both absolutely destroyed by having not one, but two x4 weaknesses.
not even 5 seconds into the video and my boy avalugg has been bodied, im leaving 😭
See the problem was he didnt have stury
It’s ok though, it will be gen 10 that glaceon will finally have the utility, type resists update, and third ability that can allow me to survive more than 2 turns as a defensive sweeper. It will definitely happen… yeah…
Snow + aurora veil + ice body + leftovers
I had some success early on with glaceon and abomasnow combo. I'd lead with them, abom was so slow I always got the weather set and would use it as a switch in if i suspected they were saving theirs, and would blizzard spam with max speed choice scarf glaceon while abomasnow set aurora veil. Surprisingly, when you have a 60% chance to land a freeze, and the defenses from snow+ aurora veil, they kinda work.
I run a full ice ZU team with tera fairy Glaceon and its one of the least bad members of my team
watching ice get worse and worse over the years and Cloyster the man the myth the legend not only hanging onto OU but achieving Uber status was inspiring to behold
The thing is that Cloyster was accidentally perfect. It is defensive enough that it can Shell Smash and it basically needs to Shell Smash to output the needed damage. It has almost all of the multihit moves so it can take advantage of Skill Link. With a White Herb it remains tanky; with a King’s Rock it becomes the premier flincher. And in earlier generations its tankiness meant something. Cloyster switched roles at the absolute correct time.
My favourite Kanto mon becoming an ubers level threat is awe inspiring
To have only one resistance to itself is a fucking disgrace.
Seriously, Ice should at LEAST resist grass and water ffs
@@THEGREATMAXgrass does not need any nerfs
Its like...not even bug? It doesn't even resist BUG?! That's...impressively bad.
Electric, Fairy, and Ground resists would genuinely be the healthiest thing for the metagame. It's still almost always giving out a quad-weakness to Something, but it's also patching up weaknesses to some of the most spammable types in exchange for that.
Gotta love how gamefreak keeps making fat ice types without giving ice ANY OTHER RESISTANCES ASIDE FROM ICE ITSELF. Like even just making it resist water and ground on top of resisting itself would be a nice improvement.
Thermal Exchange or volt absorb would be a nice ability for extra switch in opportunities.
Id say make it resist fairy instead of ground
Crazy how when a x2-x4 damage mechanic exists it matters huh?
Ice, Electric, Fairy, Ground would be a nice list of resistances. There's no type combo where that'd be broken, but it does create some interesting switch in opportunities, and also helps mitigate the spammability of those types.
This is literally the exact set of resistances I was thinking of. Either that or swap out either electric or fairy for a water resist. But what you've suggested is also perfect!
Also, it would definitely help the fat ice types get some milage out of their typing defensively. Avalugg would probably get so much use at first lol
4:04 The premiere Gen 1 threat, blissey
Whats cooler than being cool?
Ice Cold
They might be questionable in battle but design-wise I love the Ice types.
I feel like a very intuitive place to start would be to give ice type resistance to the at least some of the types that are weak to it. That kind of symmetry is very common on the type chart and could go a long way to making the type feel real defensively.
Typhlosion calling Macargo a snail after he worked so hard to rise to the top of the horse council is pretty mean. Think it's time to cancel Typhlosion
Jimothy is so Cool he had to make a fridge to show how chill he really is.
Ice type is considered by many to be the worst type in all of Pokémon
This unfortunate type has four weaknesses to fire, fighting, rock and steel, and only a single resistance to itself.
Rock weakness is particularly damning because of their vulnerability to the common Stealth Rock entry hazard
The defensive advantages of ice typing are almost nonexistant.
And it comes with so many drawbacks, that simply having an ice typing, tends to plummet a Pokemon's viability.
Everything else about the Pokémon better be outstanding to make up for being an ice type.
My absolute favorite Ice type is gen 5 Cryogonal. Free switch into EQ, and I love how it just barely outspeeds Garchomp. I used to run a boost set with Acid Armor to counter switch-outs. Definitely very gimmicky because it relies on the general ignorance of its speed stat, but it was fun to use.
Funny how many ice types have been getting banned to Ubers when they focus on the fact that it’s arguably the best attacking type (cloyster iron bundle G darm kyurem and more) the actual worst type is psychic which is a convo people need to have
Psychic is definitely struggling, but a legendary, a paradox Pokemon, and a Shell Smasher are aren't the best examples of Ice being busted, especially since they all also have the most powerful secondary types in the game with Water and Dragon. The Psychic/Water and Psychic/Dragon pokemon are also busted, and if any Psychic pokemon learned Shell Smash they would probably be busted as well. (Starmie with Shell Smash would be much stronger than Cloyster, for example.) There are also more Psychic Uber Pokemon than Ice Uber Pokemon.
Ice has the misfortune of always making a pokemon worse defensively, and thus always being best used as a coverage option on non-Ice types. Psychic at least can help a Pokemon resist Poison and Fighting, which means you can use it to make a Fairy more well rounded defensively or have an easier time switching in on Fighting moves. Even if the actual moves need to be OP (Expanding Force) to be usable, at least the Pokemon themselves aren't especially suffering from having a Psychic type.
@@normal6483 what’s your opinion on psychic being weak to the ubiquitous knock off and u turn, that’s not something you can nullify with HDB, also I don’t see how being a paradox or legendary changes anything when lots of Pokémon are those and allowed in OU or tiered even worse lol, funnily enough psychic typing made another paradox mon in iron boulder drop off
@@jadonteino3438 Like I said, Psychic is still definitely in a bad place, it's just not worse than Ice. Knock Off and U-Turn weakness is really bad in singles for Psychic Pokemon that aren't also Fighting or Fairy. (Or that don't run an expendable item, since a bunch of secondary types can make U-Turn neutral and running a berry, sash, or other 1-use item makes Knock Off irrelevant.) And that's a lot of Pokemon.
But Stealth Rocks is the worse weakness. Psychic types are neutral to it, and a good amount have Magic Guard or Magic Bounce to make hazards a non-issue. But Ice types have to run boots or have a dedicated teamslot for hazard removal, which is sometimes like running no item at all and other times like running with -1 Pokemon. You can counter Knock Off and U-Turn with good prediction, but Stealth Rocks has to be beat in the teambuilder, and at that point it's easier to just not run an Ice type.
false
Ice types can be busted, but given how bad Ice typing is it just means you made a very good Pokémon and slapped an Ice typing on it, not that Ice typing is inherently good. The exceptions are the Gen 1 meta where resistances to Ice are nonexistent nor are there super effective moves, and Alolan Ninetales who demonstrates the only advantage Ice type will ever have - the ability to set up both screens in one turn. Maybe at this point another advantage is that Ice types can increase their physical defense in Snow but most Ice types have pretty good physical defenses, but at least it provides something and is technically a counterpart to Sandstorm.
i wont soon forget that jim chose to put articuno in a few of his recent videos. more can be done, and should, but i acknowledge his effort!
I wish I loved anything in my life as much as Jim loves Gen 5 Mamoswine
Good video
Game freak didn't have to nerf ice types in gen 2, they just needed to nerf blizzard and the freeze status effect. Making steel and fire types resist ice types was a masive mistake.
Fire resisting Ice makes sense to me, but I suppose an argument could be made that metals can be brittled down over time in extreme enough cold temperatures.
@@bdt2002gaming I get the Fire resistance. I think it makes more sense than the water resisting ice. My point is mainly that ice was a type that was good because only ice and water types resisted blizzard. adding more things that risist ice moves will undermine the type.
I have a bigger isue with the steel type. Steel was a poorly tought out typeing that invalidated poison, rock and ice types, just to make fire and fighting types decent. it should have more weaknesses like electricity and water, it shouldn't have a normal resist and rock types shouldn't have a steel weakness.
I think there should be an ice move that is super effective against steel similar to freeze dry. If deep freezes and blizzards have taught me anything it’s that the cold can really F up infrastructure
Ice type just needs resistance and frostbite ailment. That's really it.
I always make the same mistake when playing pokemon of thinking ice resist grass. I mean look at it. Surely right?
@@usernametaken017there are a bunch of type interactions that should have always existed:
Ice should resist Grass
Poison should be super-effective vs Water
Bug should be super effective vs and resist Fighting.
Poison in water is pollution which kills marine life, and water pokemon = marine life. That's the biggest one, it'd be great for both logic AND balance, Water is OP and Poison needs buffs...
Swarms of insects are the biggest counter to humans by far, no idea why fighting resists Bug, should be the other way around.
@@alyssarichardson2544 Ice not being super effective against and/or resistant to water has always baffled me too
@@Jfrost9101 Furthermore, the better Ice type effectively are super effective against Water because of Freeze Dry meaning that conditionally Water is a weakness against Ice.
@@alyssarichardson2544tbf I don’t think Grass needs more types to be resistant towards it
If we ever get an ice rock type that is even reasonably fast, it could become a complete nightmare to deal with.
Been using a weavile rampardos fusion in infinite fusion, and it has hard carried my whole run, hits so many things super effectively
Maybe a Lycanroc variant. Would love it but can’t imagine Gamefreak will do that with the two worst types they love to make slow for thematic reasons
Imagine a ice/fighting type with actual stats too, how good would that be?
@@et34t34fdf i mean, if delta scyther from insurgence is anything to go off of, lots of potential there
Honestly, I imagine Aurorus could be great in Sandstorm and Snow teams because it can take advantage of special defense and defense boosts so long as you max its speed. It’s a gimmick, but I feel it can work the same way fast Calyrex-Ice works in lower levels.
@@iantaakalla8180Does aurorus still not learn power gem, btw?
I have been having a blast with a (mostly) Ice team in both OU and UU (same team with slightly different EV spreads). Have gotten up to 1600-ish with it.
Ninetales A - HP, Speed+
Slowking (Water) - HP, Balanced Def/Sp.Def
Sandslash A - Attack+, enough speed to outspeed max speed Dragapult in Snow, HP
Avalugg - HP, Def+
Frosmoth - Sp. Def+, enough speed to outspeed dragapult after 2 quiver dances, rest HP
Chandelure - scarfed, Speed+, Sp Atk
Snow giving a defense boost is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of buffing Ice types. But what Ice types need is better type matchups. I've seen ideas being thrown around like Ice resisting Water, Ice resisting Flying, and even the idea of Ice dropping its weakness to Fighting. It would be neat if some resistances were given to Ice so it can develop a better defensive profile.
The funny thing is that the good special Ice-type attackers are already strong against Water because they have Freeze Dry. I would imagine Ice type could just be the type that could have unexpected super effective damage to all its weakness but it would be distributive amidst very few Pokémon since Ice types live on hitting things super effectively at this point or battering Pokemon with strong attacks. This is in addition to one or two resistances.
Wow. I had no idea there were Ice Types in Competitive Pokemon.
I assume we can expect the other worst type next (Horse)
Nightmare doing 1/4th hp is insane
Imagine if Lickitung was an ice type…
It would be licking lamp posts without fearing the consequences. That is unacceptable.
freakytung
I would like this. I liked when they made Ice Mr. Mime lol
Trade evolution with the ice cream pokemon where the ice cream boi is actually in control, Lickitung is fully hypnotized by licking its new ice cream cone
I'd name mine Patrick
Imagine if game freak gave lickitung 2 extra special defense...heck, imagine 3...
I was expecting Magcargo and Typhlosion to come to a mutually beneficial agreement, where neither rules over the other and both benefit
As a wise man once said "Ice type is considered by many to be the worst type in all of Pokemon."
Just subscribed! Don’t want to get caught up in the war between Magcargo and Typhlosion
It's ice to be here so early
Hello! Here as a Gen 4 enthusiast, adding a bit more about Abomasnow and Mamoswine.
I'd say, Mamoswine first problem is really not even Stealth Rock, or it's weaknesses, it's really it's lack of Moves and SCIZOR.
Offensive Steel types exist, but they don't really depend on their Steel STAB damage. Pokemon like Jirachi benefit from Serene Grace's Iron Head, but it would rather benefit from Psychic and Utility moves. And Metagross has the power to make Meteor Mash work, but focuses on other moves to finish off opponents or just Explode on them. Empoleon and Magnezone rely on their other types more for damage.
That makes an environment that can fet caught off guard by Scizor and if youre not prepared, it can easily sweep your entire team.
So Mamoswine doesn't have a lot of recourse besides a neutral Earthquake that may lower Scizor to red, but may never finish it off, and for that Mamoswine has to be at full health, and with Stealth Rock is a bit hard.
Abomasnow:
I've been trying to make it work and as Jimothy said, you CAN build a team around it, but its best asset is literally just setting Hail. Abomasnow can be a Sand team worst nightmare if played right.
Ironically, I've been leaning into the Stealth Rock damage for a while.
My set is:
Item: Custap Berry
Blizzard
Substitute
Wood Hammer
Earthquake
"That's a bit offensive for a frail, slow Pokemon, isn't it?"
That's the Beauty of it. Abomasnow once hitting the field can lure enemy Heatrans, Jirachi and Metagross, which they get on a Substitute. Earthquake decimates Heatran, almost finishes off Offensive Jirachi, and does more than Half to Metagross.
It can scare off most Tyranitar sets (except Fire Punch or Fire Blast) because most people are scared of taking the chance with Stone Edge.
It's not meant to last long, and every switch in, drives it lower into that 25%, where it can drop a surprise attack.
Did you say that a surprise Ice Shard could hurt Pokemon like Latias or Salamance? Imagine a full Priority Blizzard.
A single additionally resistance would go a long way to helping the Ice type. Fairy resistance would of course be fantastic but even something like a mutual resist with water or a bug or flying resist would open things up for ice mons a lot
I just think they are so chill
Everyone talks ganster about Ice but that STAB Ice Beam and Blizzard is insane
Another cool video from Mr. Cool. Crazy how information can help you beat the heat. Keep up the grand work Mr cool great content as always.
Don’t forget that fire does not resist ice in generation one
Zard and Moltres are very sad about that. At least the anime was accurate when Zard lost to the ice beam from the Poliwrath
I've been a big fan of Abomasnow since the beginning of gen 9 OU. It's in a low tier, but people get caught off guard by how bulky the new snow defense boost makes it, especially with Aurora Veil, and by how hard a leaf storm with SPA investment can hit. It can easily finish off a chipped Garganacl, Dondozo or Alomomola, or even OHKO them if they don't have much special bulk. Blizzard is also just a really nice big damage move that can be clicked repeatedly and isn't resisted by much.
It's a solid switch-in to Ogrepon wellspring, provides a little counterplay to rain teams etc.
I'm just really happy how the changes in the new generation made one of my favorite ice types playable.
I always thought a frostbite status ailment that works very similar as burn but halving damage on the special side would be really cool.
Something worth pointing out: another thing that helped ice types in gen 1 is that fire didn't actually resist ice yet. So, for example, Charizard and Moltres were weak to blizzard.
Favourite Ice Type is Aurorus.
Ice definitely needs some new resistances to help buff it a little more. Changing Freeze to Frostbite would be good, if they buffed the secondary effect rate on some moves that currently inflict freeze.The Snow change was definitely good for a start, but that's probably just a good general buff for Hail/Snow teams in general.
Jim I am disappointed in you, you have forgotten the gen 4 OU staple Walrein. For that he will seek vengence, not very ice of you…
I think I’d like to see ice get water and dragon resists- this would help it check the offensive power of both and not leave it with some defensive identity
Ice type is the best type for one reason, possibilities, due to it having a single resistances and common weaknesses, it often needs an extra factor to make it better, and that is exactly what makes it good. Its what allows special abilities like thick fat and snow warning to help boost stats, its what allows Abomasnow and Alolan Ninetails to have great ways to increase their stats, or protect with aurora veil. Ice types have more lose restrictions for raw power, due to it being a glass canon, and when you find a team combo that helps get rid of the glass part of the canon, it dominates.
Triple Axel missing is the reason I run min speed trick room Weavile with zoom lens. I shall never miss a triple axel hit again.
Jimothy when you finish the type's in competitive pokemon series, might I suggest doing the same thing but for little cup? I love these videos and I feel like you could do a similar concept there
They're very chill
I recently saw a video of someone attempting to argue that Ice type has a defensive identity because it has many defensively statted members (IIRC, it was about gym leader teams). I'm glad I'm not the only one that disagrees.
Ice not resisting water is actually insane to me. It's been insane to me since gen 1
Can't wait to have the infamous Ice Type on the fridge with jimothy cool
This video is pretty “cool”
Thank you I’ll be here all night 👋
Hello your helpful gen 1 ou player here. Ice is actually not resisted by fire in gen 1 so there's also that nerf. Fire is still super effective it just doesn't resist. Hence zard and moltres have an ice weakness
What does Ice and the Dallas Cowboys have in common?
The only thing atopping them from winning is themselves.
Cool video.
Still insane how GF thought a single hazard that brings some mons to half HP just for the crime of switching in was ok
We about to have no defensive profile with this one lads
I really wish Ice types had a way to influct a status that weakened special attack. Electric gets paralyze to weaken speed while being speedy, fire gets will o wisp to weaken attack while being attackers, poison gets toxic and poison to weaken sustain while having access to good sustain.
It just seems odd that a type with an affinity to special attacking doesn't get access to a way for the more supportive or defensive skewed of their types to control the special attacking side of things.
Other than that, giving it more resistances is tricky. Grass and bug each seem like good candidates for it to resist, but at that point it basically just becomes a more offensively skewed Steel type
Sad to hear that gen 5 ou has gotten a bad reputation, i had so much fun with it
I love ice types because they keep the drinks inside iron mugulis cool during the hot summer months
I think Ice should resist a combination of Water Bug and grass. All of these things hate the cold in real life, especially bugs and grass. Can u imagine that behind A Veil 😩
I'm always here for Jim's slander on the abominations that are the paradox pokemon
Chein Pao had Higher attack before the game released. The Treasures of Ruin were all nerfed before release which is why the have base 570 instead of the usual legendary 580. Chien Pao had 130 base attack down to 120, Chi-yu had 145 base Special Attack down to 135, Ting Lu had 165 base HP down to 155 and Wo-Chien had 5 points removed from its offensive stats. Post Nerf Chien-Pao has the same base attack but an ability that effectively increases it.
If they want to keep making it the glass cannon type then I say they should go even further and make it super effective against fairy and bug. But honestly all I want is to resist water.
Weavile is my favorite. Gen 6 OU is my favorite tier and it functions something like a Gen 3 Aerodactyl with its great speed, powerful STAB, and cheese potential with Icicle Crash. Of course, it also gets priority Ice Shard and is one of the best users of Pursuit. But outside of its competitive viability, I just love its design; it's an Ancient-Egyptian looking entity with cat and jackal features and great color scheme.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Smoochum is adorable and I do like Jynx a lot, especially when they made her look less like a racist caricature.
And then there's Avalugg. I think it deserves a mention. Yes, it's the epitome of the faulty defensive Ice-type archetype, but those physical defensive stats are still great. Even its bad SpDef helps it give off strong Mirror Coats. It has great utility in Rapid Spin, it gets Recover, and has Sturdy. It's a solid table.
Anyway, I don't think Ice is the worst type just because offensively it's great. Defensively, no contest, it's the worst though.
It would be a nice rework if freeze could have weak or strong variants that conditionalize the RNG roll on thaw
Just based on what you mentioned about early Ice meta, having an Ice type was important to counter an opponent with freeze. You want that kind of stage presence in a team member. The ability to pressure an opponent can swing the match. And in prior generations, a frozen pokemon may as well be dead weight
I've implemented so many options to Ice, including changing primary of a monster to also be Ice. I attempted to balance it by making frozen mons more susceptible to critical hits from fighting type moves. Although the caveat was that fighting is not strong to Ice in my mod
From what I can tell about Gamefreak, they don't like compound features in their programming. It would be nice to sort of stack successive Ice type moves to either clear the freeze condition or maintain it as it affects the roll
That's why things like hail becoming snow is interesting. We're moving away from abilities or conditions that resemble others just because. It's better to find ways to promote opportunities to shine and lend into the unique profile of a favored mon
For such a weak typing structure, it just sounds like more fun to set the stage for a win condition albeit a niche one. Chilly reception coming from mon that resists Ice as it is seems like a step in the right direction. Imagine an Ice type that defogs upon Sunny day or being hit by a fire type move. Anything that doles out some viability instead of making an Ice type a sitting duck or useless because the meta can't account for it
I believe snow should get damage from rock type attacks reduced and sand reduce Ice damage, much like Sun and Rain do to each other. Getting rid of a weakness is always appreciated and aurora veil teams won’t have to worry so much about stone edge crits. Rock types could definitely use the buff as well essentially giving them a 5th resist but also assisting ground type team members on Sand who are commonly 4x weak to ice.
Bruh, you are just absolutely pumping out great content, I have never patreon subbed or paid a content creator for stuff beyond twitch prime, but damn youre earning my money, you're gonna be my first one lol
I often wish we lived in the alternate reality where Articuno has 125 SpA in Gen2+ instead of SpD...
I believe that Mamoswine not getting Headlong Rush was a sin
Abomasnow should’ve been a psuedolegendary
I think something that i dont see talked about regarding ice is how its' defensive weaknesses are worse than they would already be because they overlap with steel.
Pokemon already want to slot in fighting and fire moves as coverage to hit steel types and ice gets caught in the crossfire. In a similar vein, the ground types ice wants to threaten are worrier about flying types, and will run rock moves to hit them, which also threatens ice.
I say give Ice a resistance to Dragon and Normal moves.
Punching (fighting) ice will break it but anything less it won't.
& Maybe a resistance to Water too
Glalie was an under rated ice type. I always liked ice. I think ice is the worst type but big has the worst actual pokemon. Just got leveled with stuff. I could see ice being resistant to bug, water, ghost, dragon. I actually think it would be cool if ice was immune to ice not just resistant to it. That makes sense just with how hail work.
The defensive advantages of ice typing are almost non-existent.
Fun fact- Chien-Pao is literally sword leopard in Chinese (剑豹)
Thematically and logically there's no reason ice doesn't resist more types. Make it resist water, bug, ground, and/or grass
No bug or grass. Why do people keep saying this?
to make it viable mr young munny
Bug does not need another resisted type. Make Ice resist Water. Make Bug super effective against Fairy.
@@Mechjeb661these two changes would literally fix the type chart almost single-handedly.
Should have resisted fairy instead of fire imo
Ice type should resist water and this pressing issue should be brought up at the next horse council meeting.
I always loved how in gen 1 Ice was one of the best type arounds that's why it got featured on the Elite Four.
1: Fire didn't resist it and wasn't a good type overall, yup Charizard and Moltres were weak to ice.
2: Fighting types were nonexistant as psychic mons were everywere, also the best fighting move around was submission.
3: Blizzard used to have 90% accuraccy and 30% chance to freeze, one of the most spammable moves on the format.
4: Freeze was the most, absolutely broken status that ever existed, as mons couldn't get rid of it by chance,. If one mon got frozen, that was deadweight the rest of the match. Again, blizzard had almost no counterplay, and the only type inmmune to freeze was the ice type itself.
5: Rock types were somewhat popular, mostly Rhydon and Golem (Before the second fell to the bottom lol), but since those two were also ground types they were weak to ice, also stealth rock didn't exist.
6: Steel wasn't a thing, that means ice had no relevant weaknesses beyond rock, and it had counterplay towards it.
7: Not many meta mons resisted ice beyond the water types (Mostly Starmie and Cloyster) , and there were important meta picks weak to ice like Zapdos, Exeggutor and Rhydon, also the big three were normal types and didn't like to risk getting frozen. The only two mons who weren't afraid to switch into a blizzard were Cloyster and Articuno, ice types themselves.
Not sure if this is unpopular, but I think ice was the third best type around on that gen, behind normal and psychic, and surprise! The big three normal types and physic mons liked to have ice coverage! Definetly among the best types ever.
TLDR: ice good in gen 1
Honestly, the question of what is the worst Type in the series is an interesting one, since each generation is so different and some things are better in single player than in multiplayer and vice versa. There are a few types that come to mind that aren’t very good in both of those categories, though:
-Gen 2 Grass minus Celebi, who tends to artificially inflate the Type whenever it shows up (this is also when Exeggutor started to fall off too)
-Gen 4 Poison, but specifically in the Platinum era (only Type to not gain any new Pokémon from the Sinnoh Dex expansion, and Sinnoh is rough for Poison in general)
-Gen 4 Normal (Snorlax and Togekiss aren’t even true OU anymore, but even then Sinnoh might be Normal’s worst region, and this was also around Fighting’s peak)
-Gen 6 Ice (literally the only good thing here is maybe the Defog buff, which also helped Fire; the OU Ices aren’t even that good IMO)
-Gen 9 Bug in the current meta (Bug is arguably the type hurt the most by the addition of Tera, and most of the best Bugs beside Volcarona are gone)
I think Bug is consistently the worst throughout all generations. Besides a few standouts like Heracross and Scizor, the next time Bugs were getting any success was Gen 5 onward but by then, the other types were also getting buffed. The other types you listed have good qualities on their own at some point (Grass gained powder immunity, has excellent utility in things like Leech Seed and Spore/Sleep Powder, the only type to resist Water, Electric, and Ground at the same time; Poison is a great defensive type, immune to poison status, absorbs T-Spikes, and can't miss toxic; Normal has the hardest hitting moves and widest movepools+Ghost immunity; Ice can't be frozen and is great offensively).
Bug is immune to nothing, weak to 3 common types including Stealth Rock, and resisted by 6 types. They are strong against Grass, Psychic, and Dark but those aren't very difficult to hit supereffectively with other better types that you'll have anyway. And yes the Fighting and Ground resistances are useful but so many Bug types have such bad stats that these hardly matter and you're usually better off using a Flying type to handle those (esp since Bug is resisted by Fighting).
The good Bug types are typically good bc of factors other than just being Bug type. One thing I think they do the best is setting Sticky Web and that's only bc they typically limit it to Bugs. STAB U-turn and First Impression are cool but when you're weak to rocks, that kind of limits how much you can do it. That said, Lokix does it well and is one of the few that actually wants to be Bug type. And that's only bc Tinted Lens means it bypasses the usual bug resists anyway so it can actually get KOs and solid chip.
Overall, I'd say Bug is the worst. I considered Psychic bc of a lack of relevant resistances or offensive matchups but they were great in early gens, esp gen 1. Plus, they have several interesting moves and gimmicks associated with them that I think warrants their use more than Bug.
i’m getting cold folks
no cryogonal mention, expected yet it still hurts
my honest opinion is that even though ice is an awful defensive type psychic is probably worse overall because at the very least being an ice type gives you stab on a super cracked offensive type. the best offensive benefit psychic gives you is probably stab on future sight and sometimes stored power. and while ice does have MORE weaknesses i think psychic's are actually worse because knock off and u-turn are some of the worst moves to be weak to whereas the worst weakness ice has (stealth rock) can be mitigated with boots. bax and bundle probably would not have been banned if they weren't ice types but the psychic type on calyrex-shadow almost exclusively exists to make it worse
I fear that Magcargo's rise to power may prove to be a more sinister development in the near future, folks. It would be wise to air on the side of caution here.
Its so weird that ice doesn't resist ANYTHING else. Like no grass or water resist feels so weird
Also in the ORIGINAL gen 1 (Red/Green) Blizzard was 90% accurate with 30% chance to freeze. The gen 1 cheese is the only thing keeping it somewhat entertaining.
whats cooler than being cool? ice cold! (shake it)
Grass should do 1/2 to Ice. Flying too.
Gamefreak and their incredibly strange balance choices that persist to this day. Ice types being super slow and defensive, still no good physical or special moves for certain types that desperately need them, Fairy resisting Bug for no reason, and still no accurate Rock move. Ridiculous.
If a disagreement arises between Magcargo and Typhlosion, I propose Rapidash as a mediator.
Rapidash is both a Fire type and a horse, thus it can be considered an adequate equine. However, Rapidash doesn't have hands, so it cannot sign the peace treaty.
Make ice resist electric!
Personally I think hail should have still dealt damage over time or had a secondary effect.
Sun, rain, sand all have two effects.
While i personally love the water type i think it would be fair to give the ice type a resistance to water. Buffing the weaker ice type giving it a slight defensive niche as water resist is somewhat rare while also nerfing the water type which was been consistently one of the best across all generations.
Ice type was also neutral towards Fire in Gen I. It got double nerfed in just one generation, showing just how powerful it could be if left unchecked.
pretty sure it was a bug