Two things: 1. You need to remove that glass lid to allow more gas exchange in the QT. Since medications deplete oxygen. You may also want to use a powerhead pointed towards the surface or an air stone cracked on high to draw more oxygen into the water. 2. Don’t follow the MFG directions when using General Cure (every 48 hours). Instead dose once, wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. While fish can handle metronidazole every 48 hours, they sometimes struggle when dosing praziquantel that frequently. General Cure contains BOTH medications.
@humblefish do you follow the dosage instructions in general cure in terms of one packet per 10 gallons? Also, I think I read a thread where you said don’t bring copper up to 2.5ppm unless totally necessary. You are the master and I appreciate your help in advance. I have three tangs in a 40 gal breeder qt’ing now.
@@josephpeck4315 I make my own "General Cure" using pharmaceutical grade prazi + metro; but I would follow API's directions for dosing their product. With one exception... I would use a small amount of DMSO to help dissolve General Cure before dosing: humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/use-dmso-to-dissolve-medications.4809/
So sorry for your loss. It’s heartbreaking to lose a fish. They are part of our family and many of us get attached to them very quickly. Please continue to make your vids even if the outcome isn’t good it’s something that we are learning about and appreciate all you do to inform us. This is how we learn and we can always come back to this if it happens to us or a friend or fellow reefer. 😪💔
Sorry for your loss. I never quarantine my fish. I do my best to have an established reef ready system for the type of tangs/fish that are going into my system. To each it’s own. I believe a well established system with proper feeding with vitamins added should give the boost of immunity that fish need to fight off ick or other parasites that may be of issue... UV sterilizer helps and just wish luck into researching on what went wrong with your quarantine process.
So, I have another possible cause that I’ve personally experienced. If your fish has severe internal parasites using general cure may kill them. It’s happened to me twice. My hypothesis is it kills all the parasites in the digestive tract and the fish isn’t able to pass them. After dosing they stop eating and start breathing heavy. You may see some swelling in the abdomen. At least I did in my experience. Edit: in both cases without question they had internal parasites which was why I was treating them.
It looks like you have an all glass top on your QT tank. That could effect gas exchange. I was dosing Prazipro with a glass top and killed my fish. I even had an airstone but didn’t help. I think you need a mesh top.
Sorry for your losses. It sucks when that happens. Don't beat yourself up. This is why I observe fish in a separate tank and only medicate if fish develops symptoms. I know it's a controversial subject but to me it's like giving a human chemotherapy if the don't have cancer. I've tried QT in many ways over the years. For ME I've had the best success observing for 6-8 weeks and only treating with copper if the fish breaks out in ich or velvet. Best of luck to do whatever you decide, going forward.
Been through this heartache. Lost thousands in fish not to mention my time and effort. My best advice, buy pre quarantined fish from TSM and marine collectors.
I think observation is key. Why medicate fish without any sickness? Would you use medicine if you are not sick, in first place? That's my opinion about quarantine fish, plants and animals in general. Observe them for one or two months, then make decisions.
I think a good air-atone would be a better choice. Tangs are bigger fish, more active, and require more oxygen. Is there a glass top on that tank? If so, it might be smart to make a DIY mesh top. All materials can be obtained from Lowe’s. The mesh is available at BRS. Best of luck 👍🏼
Is sad.I feel awful when my fish died too,could haf contributed lack of oxygen because the lid on your tank,too much medication and you didn't dip the fish 1 minute on tap water to kill parasites?
Do you have grounding probe in ur QT? Also did you do freshwater dip on dead fish atleast? Last thing I can think of is that they were caught using sodium cyanide blasting techniques. Fish show extreme symptoms after a few days.
Hello, I found this online. This was written by the owner of Marine Collectors. One major thing to look out for with tangs in general is copper poisoning. Unfortunately in recent years I’ve seen more and more of this, and most of the time it comes from overseas. It’s almost always caused by collectors (the people actually catching the fish) holding fish in high concentrations of copper treated water awaiting ship out. If you’ve ever had a perfectly healthy tang in quarantine, eating, behaving normally, and going great then suddenly dies out of the blue this is likely the cause.
Just finished my second set of quarantine running CP at 2.5 and dosed GC for ~3 weeks. I keep the water line in the tank relatively low so the HOB filter creates a lot of surface agitation along with a secondary power head near the surface. I’ve also treated bacterial infections (Furan-2 + Seachem Kanaplex + Metroplex) during CP treatment and haven’t had any issues *knock on wood* I assume you performed fresh water dips before starting quarantine (sorry if I missed that info)?
I've done tank transfer method for years and have had success every time. I do it with all new fish there is a velvet transfer schedule which also gets rid of ice. Complete pain in the butt making and transferring the fish every few days but works 100% if done correctly. In the past I've used copper and other meds and have lost fish. Have not lost a fish with the tank transfer method. You just have to set up two exact qt tanks with the same temp/salinity and same pvc pieces. Very little stress on the fish in my experience.
Sorry for your loss. Have you check the ammonia level? I had same experience in the past that apparently the ammonia badge just doesn't work. I tried to put it in the 'dirty' water, and the color doesn't change. After that, I always put thin layer of sand and some bioblock as nitrifying media and cycle the tank for at least a week before new fish in. (+ I stop using copper based med and change to Cloroquine)
I hate QT. I lost so many fish when I first started the hobby during the QT process. I even once ran my DT FOLWR for 3 months and when I transferred my fish back to DT, they got ich the second day. Next, I tried "reef-safe" medication, and almost lost my corals with those medications. I finally decided to get an 80 watt UV from BRS and run it 24/7. The recommended UV for my tank was 25 watts, but I purposely got 80 watts since I wanted a higher turnover rate with a bigger pump. All my fish got better within days and have never seen any sign of ich or other diseases since then. I have added more than 15 fish and all of them did great. I really wish someone told me not to waste fish lives with the QT process as it's very stressful for these fish. When we get them, they are in shock, so adding them to small QT tanks is not helping either. I know most of the people will disagree with me, but the fact is that I followed Humble Fish's advice for QT, read every blog, and watched every video out there. None of them helped. Providing a stress-free environment, with good food and a UV helped me never lose a fish again.
the only thing that i take away from this is the same message you had about your tank when you left for vacation. sometimes the more human intervention causes more problems than good. sorry for the losses.
My opinion on Quarantine is this: To many people on the internet especially preach to medicate everything! If you went to a Doctor and he gave you Medication without an exam or identifying a problem, and you took the meds and died, your family would sue him and the DA would have him arrested and charged for murder. Quarantine should be used to monitor new Animals to insure they do not have any problems. You should not play a Doctor unless you 1st see symptoms and then have a second tank set up to segregate that animal and treat only that animal. As someone who was once in the pet trade I learned to know who the "Good Vendors" are and that meant they knew their suppliers, and how they handled the animals. If you have a good vendor, they will be more than happy to tell you about their "QT" if any or their suppliers. If they tell you there is a QT With meds ANYWHERE in the supply chain then all you need to do is a QT tank...Better yet is a Exporter who QT with meds, the Importer who does a QT and even better if Meds. If they do then Order your animals directly and request they DO NOT open the bag and make arrangements to pick it up the day they get it, then you can simply add to your tank watch. If there is not a med qt in the supply train, do not assume the animals are sick when you get them, do the QT for a 14 to 30 period and if in that time the animal(s) show signs then QT it and treat for the symptoms, it shows specifically and only that. Sucks this happened, I feel the pain, we all have been there.
This sucks, I nearly wiped out my tank using reef putty. Apparently once the water goes cloudy its a sign there's talc suspended in the water and the oxygen level plummets. Managed to hand catch a few fish and put them in the sump thinking they had no chance. The other 50% died, did a massive water change and amazingly the fish in the sump made a full recovery. It's heartbreaking. You learn from the mistakes thougH, I'll never use reef putty in a stocked tank again. I'm not mad about QT'ing fish to be honest. I think the sterile empty tank does stress them and the medication definitely stresses them. Obviously there's a risk in putting them in the display but i think you can negate a lot of risk by buying from a good store you trust. A stress free fish is a hardy fish.
Sorry for the loss, I read somewhere that sometimes cyanide is used to catch some of this fish and it is causing death later on. Not sure if this might be the case but worth mentioning.
Been there man. That’s why I just have Adam at ocean devotion do the QT for me. I just got a gem tang from him. What salinity did you get the fish at and what salinity is your QT. I’ve had similar issues when I got fish at 1.020 and didn’t drip them long enough to get them to 1.026
Let me tell you what I do. I used to quarantine if the fish seems like it needs quarantining. But when I buy a Tang or sensitive fish from a local fish store that I trust he already put it through UV and copper treatment I just put them straight into my tank. I’ve never had an issue. Every time I quarantine them I have an issue. They come in looking perfect put them in quarantine and then they get Ich or something else or just die. The quarantine is just too stressful for the fish tank is too small and it’s too much changing from one water to another to another. That’s my opinion I’m sure Advanced reefers would disagree but that is what I’ve done and it’s been successful and I’ve had no problems. But I do buy my fish from reputable sources
Double meds are a definite no no. Even if someone says 'they've done it before' every tank and every fish is different. There was no need to do it at the same time.
I’ve had the same exact thing happen to multiple yellow tangs at separate times after dosing General cure, all other fish were fine. I think there is a problem with either a precipitate clogging the gills or perhaps some other organ failure from this combination specifically in tangs. I wish there was more information about general cure and tangs because there is definitely a connection
You could add a few more PVC pipes, where did you get the fish? Seems like velvet? I think a lot of them die by just stress, I just tried to do a QT for the first time and only 2 out of 5 fish made it and died the first 2 days and I just got tired and put them in the tank and after 1 week so good so far.
What's the point of quarantine if you loose almost all the fish then u dump the only survivor into the display, without knowing the cause. Don't quarantine man because u won't be able to handle the loss .....at the end your still risking everything by adding the fish not fully quarantine. Another issue is that u shouldn't quarantine so many fish in a confined small tank. Do one fish at a time like that if u do loose one it does not cause a domino effect on the rest, the point of a quarantine is to diminish the casualties. It sucks to loose fish brother I feel your pain.
5 years ago, I had 4 different reef tanks and never qt anything. I started back in the hobby in Jan and decided to qt like everyone says to do and I've already lost 2 fish 🤦♀️ I'm starting to think that only the strong will survive. Make sure the fish are eating and appear healthy visually before you purchase and you shouldn't have any issues. I'm not using qt anymore.
High stress environment....tangs don't do well without plenty of hiding spaces....so if they fight till theyre exhausted plus treatments may have actually attacked parasites ....could have been a combo....but I think it was territory disputes while you weren't around to see...
This makes alot of sense. It's not like the Tang came from an environment with no hiding places, live rock etc.. so clearly it will be stressed and on top, we know stress isn't something tangs deal with that well I wonder why QT tanks don't have a setup like an actual tank with hiding places, live rock, sand etc..is it cause that will lead to more cleaning?
@@rudra7615 you want to avoid things that can capture parasites and cancel out your QT process....like ick can drop cysts into the sand rocks etc and it just keeps getting worse....or ime I had Monti eating nudibranch and they're like impossible to dip kill....so bare bottom is really the only way....best thing you can do is use more PVC caves but I still wipe them inside and out so no parasites can latch on to anything
Sorry for the loss, worst thing as a pet owner.. I personally dont have the confidence to QT my fish.... I purchase through a LFS that does it for me. I definitely pay more but don't have the worry. I always suggest (if possible) to visually inspect their quarantine setup before purchasing unless they are highly recommended by reputable sources. Good luck!
Sorry man this sucks. I know that humble fish knows his stuff, but I’m always skeptical on overlapping medications. I run the humble fish Qt protocol, but I separate the general cure from the copper which makes qt run a little bit longer. But I know you ran your first round the same way with success. Any other garage projects going on that could be causing some fumes?
one thing I learned is that the sponge filter doesn't really add to much oxygen to the tank. I it's all about surface agitation. had a similar problem in my fish only tank, fish were breathing hard either on the sand bed or at the surface of the tank then found a video of a guy named majestic aquariumstv who made a video with the same problem got to say the guy really knows his stuff. Another reason is maybe your just dosing to much I'm not to sure. stuff like this happens for no reasons it could be one of those cases
I agree on the air stone not providing as much oxygen as proper surface agitation. Point powerheads up and make sure you have healthy surface ripples. You'll know it when you see an increase in evaporation.
Did you test for ammonia?? I know you had the amonia checker but those things 9/10 are faulty. I experience it first hand when it was saying safe but yet my amonia readings with a test kit were thru the roof. You might come back and say well my other fish are alive and the only 2 are the ones that got effected. Well. Small fish generally can sustain hatch ammonia environment. Your other tang that made had probably withstood it. This same experience happened to me before. I was using copper and general cure. Never had a problem till that one time my amonia spiked and killed everything! I would not rely only on an air stone in a quarantine set up btw. I put 2 little powered heads as well. One towards the tope for water agitation. And the other cycling water within.
I experienced more fish deaths while attempting to qt fish in copper for 30 days. I now keep fish in therapeutic levels of copper for 2 weeks and then move into a new tank without copper and observe for two weeks. You can dose GC or Prazi in this second tank.
I would recheck that in tank heater looks like it’s set at/above 82. High temperature, copper, additional meds plus low oxygen will definitely kill them. When running copper or any meds you don’t want a tank temperature above normal 75-78 80 at the highest my 2 cents.
If you used the same water from last batch of QT then likely you’ve overdosed on meds, every fish will gave different tolerances. This QT schedule is crazy, if there’s nothing wrong with the fish in the first place you’re forcing them with un-necessary medication. The best method of QT for me is using hyposalinity, it’s gentle on the fish and overtime if they have anything on them will fall off and anything internal will get flushed out. To help with the process i soak the food with a few drops of JBL Atvitol to boost their ammune system. If you discover any illnesses you can treat with the right meds.
Sorry Bro. I’m not even gonna lie, I teared up a bit. Thanks for sharing. A lot of us follow you Bc you put out great content and are honest. I personally follow your channel Bc I like your reefing methodology. I was going to mimic your qt regimen. I may reconsider adding GC w Copper. What are your thoughts on ceramic airstones? And do you think adding more air would’ve helped? Like 3 of those bubblers?
if the rest of the fishes are doing well, i would most likely attribute it to the fish itself and not the methods used. we know how unpredictable fishes can be with their personalities as well as their health reaction to chemicals we dose. it’s unfortunate losing a fish we’ve spent a good chunk of money on. but this video teaches us.
I followed Humblefish's plan last summer (2020) and the same exact thing happened to me. As soon as I added the praziquantel (PraziPro or GC) two of my fish turned south (Purple Firefish and Yellow Watchman Goby). I did all I could to nurse them back to health, but the firefish died before leaving QT. The YWG died two weeks after getting into the display. I really thought getting him in there and paired with his pistol shrimp (they were a great couple) was gonna be the salve for him. Nope. Both fish were good eaters and active. After the "event" they became lethargic, nipped at food and got real skinny. I was so bummed (and still am) that I have not gotten any other fish since. It's been 7 months at this point.
Just wanted to put some input in about 2.5ppm for coppersafe tangs can be copper sensitive so maybe it could have been a combination of copper and less oxygen? I’ve heard don’t use copper on tangs unless you absolutely know they have ich?
I am sure this stone didn't add many oxigen to the water. Use a big disc that is used in koi ponds. Also I would only use copper in a last effort. It's like chemo...
Similar to other commenters... so sorry for your loss. I will say that I also run copper power and general cure. I typically do general cure at the end of my QT process but I have also done it at the beginning and end before (2x’s). In all honesty, I’ve never lost a fish doing the same process. I did notice that your blond Tang had some white spots on him... maybe that was just an issue with the camera angle but did you see that too?
Sounds like then only thing not addressed is fish aggression between tangs. In such a small QT tank aggression can easily lead to high enough stress to stop those fish that died from eating completely. Sorry for your loss man.
This hurt way too much..... my 20+ yrs experience, I dont quarantine for this exact reason......its just too stressful for the fish period. You will not keep parasites out of your display period ( coral, snails, fish with parasites that treatment cant/didnt catch )
Far from an expert but my best guess would be adding too many new fish into too small of a tank. Especially with them all being tangs. Fish being transitioned into a new system is stressful on it's own. And only makes it harder when it's crowded with not too many places to swim or hide. 2¢ Sorry for your loss. I've also had several fish die in my system that left me scratching my head. 😔
Copper is a poison. Ultimately, some fish will not make it through poisoning, and that could be the case here. Profilactic poisoning (ie medication) is something I avoid. Treat them if you see something. Sometimes you don’t treat disease in time as a result, but this way you’re not poisoning literally every single fish you ever QT
No media, too many tangs in a 10 gallon, too many tangs for his waterbox when they eventually passed through qt, glass lid on a 10g with 4-5 fish, mixing meds should be ok but I personally wouldn’t. I appreciate eat sleep reef is enthusiasm for the Hobby is fantastic and he’s had some nice tanks in the past but he’s just learning like most of us out there.
He's got no where near enough media in the tank... he's got a hang on back filter for 4 tangs... that's just common sense he's got no where near enough media in that tank for those tangs the ammonia pad or whatever I wouldn't trust it for shit.
@@OA1998. that’s what I was thinking I don’t understand how his ammonia staying at zero him if he’s just running a hang on the back unless it’s got media in it that would be strange that he has no ammonia. And I’m not sure what size tank that is I thought he said it was a 29 someone mentioned 10 but that would be way too small
I'm sorry to say... this guy keeping corals he knows his shit. Keeping fish he knows fuck all. Sorry bud. Maybe don't buy anymore fish do more research cos its just so sad losing all these beautiful fish... First things first you need more media. Buy some and chuck them in your dt sumo for a couple months ready for the qt.
@@OA1998. unfortunately I think you’re right I always kept media inside my QT lots of it and you have to keep it cycled if you have no fish in it for a while you can’t just cycle it in two days. I don’t know how he cycling it but that’s hard to do without time. Not trying to say anything negative or bad we all make mistakes. But that was a sad mistake.
I have a 140 reef and I just lost my 3rd blue chin trigger in as many months. They do good for a couple of weeks then they hide. 2 days later dead. Have no clue. Thinking about giving up on fish..
Why dose medicines if they were not sick at all? Keep the fishes in QT to make sure they are healthy and do not have any disease. Only dose if there are any sign of diseases.
Really sorry for your losses. I’ve been quarantining my fish for about 7 years now and from experience these are a couple of thoughts: rarely put together more than 2 fish in QT to avoid cross contamination as well as any little Ammonia spikes. Tangs in particular seem very sensitive to even tiny ammonia spikes when copper is at full concentration. I also keep Copperpower at around 2.0ppm and finally, never mix medications. Also, every time I tried Cupramine instead of Copperpower on any tang they would die even with concentrations way lower than full therapeautic. Finally, i increase my dosage of Copperpower very slowly, taking 6 days to reach full therapeutic level. I measure the dose that will take me to 2.0ppm (in my case 24ml), pour into a small bottle hooked up to a doser and program it to dose that amount in 6 days splitting the daily dose in 4 to dose 1ml every 6h. Best of luck!
I went through the exact same thing only when I added cupramine slowly they all died 1 by 1 .. lost a mimic and a purple tang and I don’t know why ..I feel your pain mate very frustrating .. good luck with the next batch!
Sorry, this happened to you. I don't know enough to offer any suggestions that might be helpful. But, I thank you for the videos you put out. You do a great job and I continue to learn from you.
Honestly, people are suggesting so many things but it’s always hard to pin point what exactly is the cause. IMO some fish are just built different than others even within their own species. It’s possible it was the medication and not enough gas exchange. But then how did your other fish survive compared to these ones?
I agree with not using medication during quarantine. I don’t like different species of fish in the same quarantine ether as some are totally immune to pests your trying kill. I just do a daily visual inspection for 30 days. If your tangs get ick then I quarantine them and do a 60 day low sodium bath, Works every time. If that had been black velvet you would have killed them all, no treatment would have saved them. Patience in adding fish and corals is as important as patience in doing a new build... I don’t think the Rico approach “plop and drop” is right ether... sorry for your loss man tangs are so interesting in a tank.
Add live rock bacteria in the tank., Water change and make sure temp close to 79 don’t get shocked. 75 to 79 to 80 on 10 gallon to far apart, to many fish in quarantine, not enough oxygen and med didn’t help or you over dosed. Good call naso
Stress of so many fish in a little box for so long? I feel bad about my 10 gallon quarantine with two baby clowns and one fire fish but I think you had way too many fish in that little tight for way too long.
Don't run double meds. Not all Fish react the same. Double meds can be really hard on a fish. I don't medicate unless i see a problem in my Qt period. 30 days. If the don't show sings of someting they don't get meds. Meds are a last resort
Two things:
1. You need to remove that glass lid to allow more gas exchange in the QT. Since medications deplete oxygen. You may also want to use a powerhead pointed towards the surface or an air stone cracked on high to draw more oxygen into the water.
2. Don’t follow the MFG directions when using General Cure (every 48 hours). Instead dose once, wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. While fish can handle metronidazole every 48 hours, they sometimes struggle when dosing praziquantel that frequently. General Cure contains BOTH medications.
@humblefish do you follow the dosage instructions in general cure in terms of one packet per 10 gallons? Also, I think I read a thread where you said don’t bring copper up to 2.5ppm unless totally necessary. You are the master and I appreciate your help in advance. I have three tangs in a 40 gal breeder qt’ing now.
@@josephpeck4315 I make my own "General Cure" using pharmaceutical grade prazi + metro; but I would follow API's directions for dosing their product. With one exception... I would use a small amount of DMSO to help dissolve General Cure before dosing: humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/use-dmso-to-dissolve-medications.4809/
When I QT, I give each fish a freshwater bath and don't add any medication unless I notice symptoms. The water I use runs through a UV sterilizer
I do the exact same thing I feel if there's no visible parasites why risk it qt and UV feed heavily and water change heavily 90 days
@@reeftheseaforever Because if the parasites aren't visible but there; then you put all your healthy fish at risk. Not worth it.
@@jamesabaileyjr My fish survived almost every disease. The 2 fish I lost died from getting stuck in rocks.
So sorry for your loss. It’s heartbreaking to lose a fish. They are part of our family and many of us get attached to them very quickly. Please continue to make your vids even if the outcome isn’t good it’s something that we are learning about and appreciate all you do to inform us. This is how we learn and we can always come back to this if it happens to us or a friend or fellow reefer. 😪💔
Don’t run double meds. I don’t for this exact reason.... patience. Sorry for your loss man. Live and learn
Sorry for your loss. I never quarantine my fish. I do my best to have an established reef ready system for the type of tangs/fish that are going into my system. To each it’s own. I believe a well established system with proper feeding with vitamins added should give the boost of immunity that fish need to fight off ick or other parasites that may be of issue... UV sterilizer helps and just wish luck into researching on what went wrong with your quarantine process.
So, I have another possible cause that I’ve personally experienced. If your fish has severe internal parasites using general cure may kill them. It’s happened to me twice. My hypothesis is it kills all the parasites in the digestive tract and the fish isn’t able to pass them. After dosing they stop eating and start breathing heavy. You may see some swelling in the abdomen. At least I did in my experience.
Edit: in both cases without question they had internal parasites which was why I was treating them.
Was this in conjunction with Copper??
@@keithbratley6187 negative.
It looks like you have an all glass top on your QT tank. That could effect gas exchange. I was dosing Prazipro with a glass top and killed my fish. I even had an airstone but didn’t help. I think you need a mesh top.
Sorry for your losses. It sucks when that happens. Don't beat yourself up. This is why I observe fish in a separate tank and only medicate if fish develops symptoms. I know it's a controversial subject but to me it's like giving a human chemotherapy if the don't have cancer. I've tried QT in many ways over the years. For ME I've had the best success observing for 6-8 weeks and only treating with copper if the fish breaks out in ich or velvet. Best of luck to do whatever you decide, going forward.
Man this video hurt to watch. I feel your pain. Its hard when anything dies. Especially when you put soo much time and care to make them healthy
Been through this heartache. Lost thousands in fish not to mention my time and effort. My best advice, buy pre quarantined fish from TSM and marine collectors.
I think observation is key. Why medicate fish without any sickness? Would you use medicine if you are not sick, in first place? That's my opinion about quarantine fish, plants and animals in general. Observe them for one or two months, then make decisions.
Sometimes medicating does more damage than good. You never know you tried
I think a good air-atone would be a better choice. Tangs are bigger fish, more active, and require more oxygen. Is there a glass top on that tank? If so, it might be smart to make a DIY mesh top. All materials can be obtained from Lowe’s. The mesh is available at BRS. Best of luck 👍🏼
Is sad.I feel awful when my fish died too,could haf contributed lack of oxygen because the lid on your tank,too much medication and you didn't dip the fish 1 minute on tap water to kill parasites?
Do you have grounding probe in ur QT? Also did you do freshwater dip on dead fish atleast? Last thing I can think of is that they were caught using sodium cyanide blasting techniques. Fish show extreme symptoms after a few days.
Hello,
I found this online. This was written by the owner of Marine Collectors.
One major thing to look out for with tangs in general is copper poisoning. Unfortunately in recent years I’ve seen more and more of this, and most of the time it comes from overseas. It’s almost always caused by collectors (the people actually catching the fish) holding fish in high concentrations of copper treated water awaiting ship out. If you’ve ever had a perfectly healthy tang in quarantine, eating, behaving normally, and going great then suddenly dies out of the blue this is likely the cause.
Just finished my second set of quarantine running CP at 2.5 and dosed GC for ~3 weeks. I keep the water line in the tank relatively low so the HOB filter creates a lot of surface agitation along with a secondary power head near the surface. I’ve also treated bacterial infections (Furan-2 + Seachem Kanaplex + Metroplex) during CP treatment and haven’t had any issues *knock on wood* I assume you performed fresh water dips before starting quarantine (sorry if I missed that info)?
Why put perfectly healthy fish thru all those medicines?
I've done tank transfer method for years and have had success every time. I do it with all new fish there is a velvet transfer schedule which also gets rid of ice. Complete pain in the butt making and transferring the fish every few days but works 100% if done correctly. In the past I've used copper and other meds and have lost fish. Have not lost a fish with the tank transfer method. You just have to set up two exact qt tanks with the same temp/salinity and same pvc pieces. Very little stress on the fish in my experience.
Sorry for your loss, and thank you for show os the good and bad because everybody wants to show only the good, I can feel your sadness 😥
Who told you to QT 10 fish at a time in such a small tank?
Sorry for your loss. Have you check the ammonia level? I had same experience in the past that apparently the ammonia badge just doesn't work. I tried to put it in the 'dirty' water, and the color doesn't change. After that, I always put thin layer of sand and some bioblock as nitrifying media and cycle the tank for at least a week before new fish in. (+ I stop using copper based med and change to Cloroquine)
I hate QT. I lost so many fish when I first started the hobby during the QT process. I even once ran my DT FOLWR for 3 months and when I transferred my fish back to DT, they got ich the second day. Next, I tried "reef-safe" medication, and almost lost my corals with those medications. I finally decided to get an 80 watt UV from BRS and run it 24/7. The recommended UV for my tank was 25 watts, but I purposely got 80 watts since I wanted a higher turnover rate with a bigger pump. All my fish got better within days and have never seen any sign of ich or other diseases since then. I have added more than 15 fish and all of them did great.
I really wish someone told me not to waste fish lives with the QT process as it's very stressful for these fish. When we get them, they are in shock, so adding them to small QT tanks is not helping either. I know most of the people will disagree with me, but the fact is that I followed Humble Fish's advice for QT, read every blog, and watched every video out there. None of them helped. Providing a stress-free environment, with good food and a UV helped me never lose a fish again.
the only thing that i take away from this is the same message you had about your tank when you left for vacation. sometimes the more human intervention causes more problems than good. sorry for the losses.
My opinion on Quarantine is this:
To many people on the internet especially preach to medicate everything!
If you went to a Doctor and he gave you Medication without an exam or identifying a problem, and you took the meds and died, your family would sue him and the DA would have him arrested and charged for murder.
Quarantine should be used to monitor new Animals to insure they do not have any problems. You should not play a Doctor unless you 1st see symptoms and then have a second tank set up to segregate that animal and treat only that animal.
As someone who was once in the pet trade I learned to know who the "Good Vendors" are and that meant they knew their suppliers, and how they handled the animals. If you have a good vendor, they will be more than happy to tell you about their "QT" if any or their suppliers. If they tell you there is a QT With meds ANYWHERE in the supply chain then all you need to do is a QT tank...Better yet is a Exporter who QT with meds, the Importer who does a QT and even better if Meds. If they do then Order your animals directly and request they DO NOT open the bag and make arrangements to pick it up the day they get it, then you can simply add to your tank watch.
If there is not a med qt in the supply train, do not assume the animals are sick when you get them, do the QT for a 14 to 30 period and if in that time the animal(s) show signs then QT it and treat for the symptoms, it shows specifically and only that.
Sucks this happened, I feel the pain, we all have been there.
This sucks, I nearly wiped out my tank using reef putty. Apparently once the water goes cloudy its a sign there's talc suspended in the water and the oxygen level plummets. Managed to hand catch a few fish and put them in the sump thinking they had no chance. The other 50% died, did a massive water change and amazingly the fish in the sump made a full recovery. It's heartbreaking. You learn from the mistakes thougH, I'll never use reef putty in a stocked tank again.
I'm not mad about QT'ing fish to be honest. I think the sterile empty tank does stress them and the medication definitely stresses them. Obviously there's a risk in putting them in the display but i think you can negate a lot of risk by buying from a good store you trust. A stress free fish is a hardy fish.
Sorry for the loss, I read somewhere that sometimes cyanide is used to catch some of this fish and it is causing death later on. Not sure if this might be the case but worth mentioning.
Been there man. That’s why I just have Adam at ocean devotion do the QT for me. I just got a gem tang from him.
What salinity did you get the fish at and what salinity is your QT. I’ve had similar issues when I got fish at 1.020 and didn’t drip them long enough to get them to 1.026
Let me tell you what I do. I used to quarantine if the fish seems like it needs quarantining. But when I buy a Tang or sensitive fish from a local fish store that I trust he already put it through UV and copper treatment I just put them straight into my tank. I’ve never had an issue. Every time I quarantine them I have an issue. They come in looking perfect put them in quarantine and then they get Ich or something else or just die. The quarantine is just too stressful for the fish tank is too small and it’s too much changing from one water to another to another. That’s my opinion I’m sure Advanced reefers would disagree but that is what I’ve done and it’s been successful and I’ve had no problems. But I do buy my fish from reputable sources
Double meds are a definite no no. Even if someone says 'they've done it before' every tank and every fish is different. There was no need to do it at the same time.
I’ve had the same exact thing happen to multiple yellow tangs at separate times after dosing General cure, all other fish were fine. I think there is a problem with either a precipitate clogging the gills or perhaps some other organ failure from this combination specifically in tangs. I wish there was more information about general cure and tangs because there is definitely a connection
Adding the air bubbler might have increased the ph of the water too drastic and caused ammonia to be more toxic, burning the gills of the fish.
You could add a few more PVC pipes, where did you get the fish? Seems like velvet? I think a lot of them die by just stress, I just tried to do a QT for the first time and only 2 out of 5 fish made it and died the first 2 days and I just got tired and put them in the tank and after 1 week so good so far.
What's the point of quarantine if you loose almost all the fish then u dump the only survivor into the display, without knowing the cause. Don't quarantine man because u won't be able to handle the loss .....at the end your still risking everything by adding the fish not fully quarantine. Another issue is that u shouldn't quarantine so many fish in a confined small tank. Do one fish at a time like that if u do loose one it does not cause a domino effect on the rest, the point of a quarantine is to diminish the casualties. It sucks to loose fish brother I feel your pain.
5 years ago, I had 4 different reef tanks and never qt anything. I started back in the hobby in Jan and decided to qt like everyone says to do and I've already lost 2 fish 🤦♀️ I'm starting to think that only the strong will survive. Make sure the fish are eating and appear healthy visually before you purchase and you shouldn't have any issues. I'm not using qt anymore.
High stress environment....tangs don't do well without plenty of hiding spaces....so if they fight till theyre exhausted plus treatments may have actually attacked parasites ....could have been a combo....but I think it was territory disputes while you weren't around to see...
This makes alot of sense. It's not like the Tang came from an environment with no hiding places, live rock etc.. so clearly it will be stressed and on top, we know stress isn't something tangs deal with that well
I wonder why QT tanks don't have a setup like an actual tank with hiding places, live rock, sand etc..is it cause that will lead to more cleaning?
@@rudra7615 you want to avoid things that can capture parasites and cancel out your QT process....like ick can drop cysts into the sand rocks etc and it just keeps getting worse....or ime I had Monti eating nudibranch and they're like impossible to dip kill....so bare bottom is really the only way....best thing you can do is use more PVC caves but I still wipe them inside and out so no parasites can latch on to anything
@@Sammy31Dee makes sense
Sorry for the loss, worst thing as a pet owner.. I personally dont have the confidence to QT my fish.... I purchase through a LFS that does it for me. I definitely pay more but don't have the worry. I always suggest (if possible) to visually inspect their quarantine setup before purchasing unless they are highly recommended by reputable sources. Good luck!
Sorry man this sucks. I know that humble fish knows his stuff, but I’m always skeptical on overlapping medications. I run the humble fish Qt protocol, but I separate the general cure from the copper which makes qt run a little bit longer. But I know you ran your first round the same way with success. Any other garage projects going on that could be causing some fumes?
one thing I learned is that the sponge filter doesn't really add to much oxygen to the tank. I it's all about surface agitation. had a similar problem in my fish only tank, fish were breathing hard either on the sand bed or at the surface of the tank then found a video of a guy named majestic aquariumstv who made a video with the same problem got to say the guy really knows his stuff. Another reason is maybe your just dosing to much I'm not to sure. stuff like this happens for no reasons it could be one of those cases
I agree on the air stone not providing as much oxygen as proper surface agitation. Point powerheads up and make sure you have healthy surface ripples. You'll know it when you see an increase in evaporation.
I lost a few freshwater fish in a similar manner to what I believe was toxic shock from medication. Breathing was labored, died within a few days.
Did you test for ammonia?? I know you had the amonia checker but those things 9/10 are faulty. I experience it first hand when it was saying safe but yet my amonia readings with a test kit were thru the roof. You might come back and say well my other fish are alive and the only 2 are the ones that got effected. Well. Small fish generally can sustain hatch ammonia environment. Your other tang that made had probably withstood it.
This same experience happened to me before. I was using copper and general cure. Never had a problem till that one time my amonia spiked and killed everything!
I would not rely only on an air stone in a quarantine set up btw. I put 2 little powered heads as well. One towards the tope for water agitation. And the other cycling water within.
Maybe run hyposalinity so you will have more oxygen in quarintine , I do
I experienced more fish deaths while attempting to qt fish in copper for 30 days. I now keep fish in therapeutic levels of copper for 2 weeks and then move into a new tank without copper and observe for two weeks. You can dose GC or Prazi in this second tank.
Curious why are the mollies in your qt tank?
I would recheck that in tank heater looks like it’s set at/above 82. High temperature, copper, additional meds plus low oxygen will definitely kill them. When running copper or any meds you don’t want a tank temperature above normal 75-78 80 at the highest my 2 cents.
So sad 😔 Fair play for sharing not just the good side of reefing dude
You don’t take meds unless you’re sick. Why would you treat your fish differently?
Yikes. You have to have a powerhead on top of a bubbler for lots of surface agitation when using double meds.
would love to know your QT equipment list! Do you have a video on that? I'm setting up my first QT.
I would look up humble fish on reef2reef.com. he has it pretty laid out for you on proper QT set up.
I feel your pain. I just had that same thing happen to me it really sucks. And it’s like you said all parameters were good.
If you used the same water from last batch of QT then likely you’ve overdosed on meds, every fish will gave different tolerances. This QT schedule is crazy, if there’s nothing wrong with the fish in the first place you’re forcing them with un-necessary medication. The best method of QT for me is using hyposalinity, it’s gentle on the fish and overtime if they have anything on them will fall off and anything internal will get flushed out. To help with the process i soak the food with a few drops of JBL Atvitol to boost their ammune system. If you discover any illnesses you can treat with the right meds.
Sorry for your loss, sometimes medicine can be poison itself! Good luck moving forward!
Yeah medicine can definitely do it if you over dose it.
Sorry Bro. I’m not even gonna lie, I teared up a bit. Thanks for sharing. A lot of us follow you Bc you put out great content and are honest. I personally follow your channel Bc I like your reefing methodology. I was going to mimic your qt regimen. I may reconsider adding GC w Copper. What are your thoughts on ceramic airstones? And do you think adding more air would’ve helped? Like 3 of those bubblers?
if the rest of the fishes are doing well, i would most likely attribute it to the fish itself and not the methods used. we know how unpredictable fishes can be with their personalities as well as their health reaction to chemicals we dose. it’s unfortunate losing a fish we’ve spent a good chunk of money on. but this video teaches us.
I followed Humblefish's plan last summer (2020) and the same exact thing happened to me. As soon as I added the praziquantel (PraziPro or GC) two of my fish turned south (Purple Firefish and Yellow Watchman Goby). I did all I could to nurse them back to health, but the firefish died before leaving QT. The YWG died two weeks after getting into the display. I really thought getting him in there and paired with his pistol shrimp (they were a great couple) was gonna be the salve for him. Nope.
Both fish were good eaters and active. After the "event" they became lethargic, nipped at food and got real skinny. I was so bummed (and still am) that I have not gotten any other fish since. It's been 7 months at this point.
Just wanted to put some input in about 2.5ppm for coppersafe tangs can be copper sensitive so maybe it could have been a combination of copper and less oxygen? I’ve heard don’t use copper on tangs unless you absolutely know they have ich?
I am sure this stone didn't add many oxigen to the water. Use a big disc that is used in koi ponds. Also I would only use copper in a last effort. It's like chemo...
i feel your devastation - I lost 8 of 13 fish overnight, and I’ll never for sure know why. I suspect a low oxygen event, but I can’t ever be sure. 😢
Similar to other commenters... so sorry for your loss. I will say that I also run copper power and general cure. I typically do general cure at the end of my QT process but I have also done it at the beginning and end before (2x’s). In all honesty, I’ve never lost a fish doing the same process. I did notice that your blond Tang had some white spots on him... maybe that was just an issue with the camera angle but did you see that too?
Sounds like then only thing not addressed is fish aggression between tangs. In such a small QT tank aggression can easily lead to high enough stress to stop those fish that died from eating completely. Sorry for your loss man.
This hurt way too much..... my 20+ yrs experience, I dont quarantine for this exact reason......its just too stressful for the fish period. You will not keep parasites out of your display period ( coral, snails, fish with parasites that treatment cant/didnt catch )
Sorry for your loss, especially in yellow tang are hard to find
Far from an expert but my best guess would be adding too many new fish into too small of a tank. Especially with them all being tangs. Fish being transitioned into a new system is stressful on it's own. And only makes it harder when it's crowded with not too many places to swim or hide. 2¢ Sorry for your loss. I've also had several fish die in my system that left me scratching my head. 😔
Copper is a poison. Ultimately, some fish will not make it through poisoning, and that could be the case here.
Profilactic poisoning (ie medication) is something I avoid. Treat them if you see something. Sometimes you don’t treat disease in time as a result, but this way you’re not poisoning literally every single fish you ever QT
Sorry for your loss Bro. This hobby can suck at times 🥺
How is your tank through the nitrogen cycle I don’t see any media in your tank so how was it competing with the ammonia in nitrate and all that
No media, too many tangs in a 10 gallon, too many tangs for his waterbox when they eventually passed through qt, glass lid on a 10g with 4-5 fish, mixing meds should be ok but I personally wouldn’t. I appreciate eat sleep reef is enthusiasm for the Hobby is fantastic and he’s had some nice tanks in the past but he’s just learning like most of us out there.
He's got no where near enough media in the tank... he's got a hang on back filter for 4 tangs... that's just common sense he's got no where near enough media in that tank for those tangs the ammonia pad or whatever I wouldn't trust it for shit.
@@OA1998. that’s what I was thinking I don’t understand how his ammonia staying at zero him if he’s just running a hang on the back unless it’s got media in it that would be strange that he has no ammonia. And I’m not sure what size tank that is I thought he said it was a 29 someone mentioned 10 but that would be way too small
I'm sorry to say... this guy keeping corals he knows his shit. Keeping fish he knows fuck all. Sorry bud. Maybe don't buy anymore fish do more research cos its just so sad losing all these beautiful fish... First things first you need more media. Buy some and chuck them in your dt sumo for a couple months ready for the qt.
@@OA1998. unfortunately I think you’re right I always kept media inside my QT lots of it and you have to keep it cycled if you have no fish in it for a while you can’t just cycle it in two days. I don’t know how he cycling it but that’s hard to do without time. Not trying to say anything negative or bad we all make mistakes. But that was a sad mistake.
One thing I don’t do. Is mix meds. I do copper. Than remove it. Than prazipro than remove etc
Yeah that would be the correct way never do two meds at once
Agreed in principle, but Copper Power and GC are compatible unlike some other types of copper. Could be something else.
Hasn’t humblefish stated that copper becomes toxic with potassium in reef salts vs instant ocean type?
Sorry for your loss. When I see a fish having trouble breathing I lower the salinity to help them breathe.
I have a 140 reef and I just lost my 3rd blue chin trigger in as many months. They do good for a couple of weeks then they hide. 2 days later dead. Have no clue. Thinking about giving up on fish..
it sad to lose a yellow tang these days, you don’t get them easily now and it not cheap
Your right the yellow tangs use to be a 60 dollars fish now I seen them online up to 500 dollars
Why dose medicines if they were not sick at all? Keep the fishes in QT to make sure they are healthy and do not have any disease. Only dose if there are any sign of diseases.
Really sorry for your losses. I’ve been quarantining my fish for about 7 years now and from experience these are a couple of thoughts: rarely put together more than 2 fish in QT to avoid cross contamination as well as any little Ammonia spikes. Tangs in particular seem very sensitive to even tiny ammonia spikes when copper is at full concentration. I also keep Copperpower at around 2.0ppm and finally, never mix medications. Also, every time I tried Cupramine instead of Copperpower on any tang they would die even with concentrations way lower than full therapeautic. Finally, i increase my dosage of Copperpower very slowly, taking 6 days to reach full therapeutic level. I measure the dose that will take me to 2.0ppm (in my case 24ml), pour into a small bottle hooked up to a doser and program it to dose that amount in 6 days splitting the daily dose in 4 to dose 1ml every 6h. Best of luck!
I just roll with ich management only lost 2 fish. Fish that died both got stuck in a rock. UV sterilizer works great.
I went through the exact same thing only when I added cupramine slowly they all died 1 by 1 .. lost a mimic and a purple tang and I don’t know why ..I feel your pain mate very frustrating .. good luck with the next batch!
That sucks! When I need to heat up water quick I use the Microwave.
The Seneye has O2 monitoring and text alerts so you can rule out oxygen as the cause in the future. Sorry for your loss
QT is a stressful process for fish, some can take it some cant. Sorry for your losses
I've had yellow tangs die on copper treatment alone. DO was always above 90% but the necropsy revealed they had significant gill damage.
Why no ammonia burn? Sounds like it and those badges can be off.
Way to much fish in qt and in that size tank
Walking into that is just a shot to the gut. That sucks man.
Could the two treatments cause a reaction within the quarintine?
Sorry, this happened to you. I don't know enough to offer any suggestions that might be helpful. But, I thank you for the videos you put out. You do a great job and I continue to learn from you.
Sorry for your loss..try check if any electric leak flow in your system using test pen..
I've a similar problem, but I believe was brokinela. Cooper don't treat it. Lost all fish in quarantine.
The products you are advertising killed those fish.
Honestly, people are suggesting so many things but it’s always hard to pin point what exactly is the cause. IMO some fish are just built different than others even within their own species. It’s possible it was the medication and not enough gas exchange. But then how did your other fish survive compared to these ones?
Don’t quarantine nothing, throw everything in and it balances out
Transport Stress + copper + general cure + tank aggression + not enough places to hide = dead fish. heck i would die if I was put though all that.
Fish are being collected with cyanide. Coming in to us, basically dead fish swimming.
I agree with not using medication during quarantine. I don’t like different species of fish in the same quarantine ether as some are totally immune to pests your trying kill. I just do a daily visual inspection for 30 days. If your tangs get ick then I quarantine them and do a 60 day low sodium bath, Works every time. If that had been black velvet you would have killed them all, no treatment would have saved them. Patience in adding fish and corals is as important as patience in doing a new build... I don’t think the Rico approach “plop and drop” is right ether... sorry for your loss man tangs are so interesting in a tank.
Add live rock bacteria in the tank., Water change and make sure temp close to 79 don’t get shocked. 75 to 79 to 80 on 10 gallon to far apart, to many fish in quarantine, not enough oxygen and med didn’t help or you over dosed. Good call naso
It sucks.... Just got back from vacation to find 6 dead fishes...Lack of oxygen after a power break... It the life of reefers I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experience for all us reefers...best of luck moving forward 🙏
Unfortunately you missed something important and meds in such small tank with so many fish can be dangerous...
Unfortunate demise to the reef.
Stress of so many fish in a little box for so long? I feel bad about my 10 gallon quarantine with two baby clowns and one fire fish but I think you had way too many fish in that little tight for way too long.
That sucks, Yellows are not cheap anymore.
Don't run double meds. Not all Fish react the same. Double meds can be really hard on a fish. I don't medicate unless i see a problem in my Qt period. 30 days. If the don't show sings of someting they don't get meds. Meds are a last resort
This is a very tough scenario. Rip yellow tang.
Source where the fish came from. Where they were captured snd originated from.