The Assassination of Domitian: How Much Paranoia is Too Much?
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- One of my favourite chapters of Roman history, the assassination of the emperor Domitian. I didn't btoher citing sources as pretty much everything has been drawn from one text, Suetonius' Twelve Caesars. Hope you enjoy!
music: Bensound.com
A video on Domitian's paranoia that doesn't mention the "dinner party where he made everyone sit on gravestones with their name on it in a dark room" thing?
For one thing, that probably didn’t happen. Most likely that whole story was made up by his enemies. There also is mentioned that Caracalla decimated the entire population of Alexandria, and oddly enough, there’s no other mention of that event in any other histories. A huge city getting decimated is a pretty big event, and no one else but Roman senatorial historians ever mention it. It’s fiction.
Domitian was a solid emperor.. the fact that the soldiers forced the punishment of his assassins is proof to me it wasnt a universal decision.
He was also likely slandered like crazy by his successors and the Senate.
"He left the empire no worse and no better than he found it."
Far from being a historian myself, but from various documentaries and podcasts and discussions I've seen, listened to, read and participated in, I was under the impression that Domitian left Rome better off than what it was when he got it. Some historians even consider his reign the foundation upon which the prosperity of the 2nd century has been built.
One of only 2 emperor's to fix inflation. And the only one to do a good job of it. For that alone he's at least top 10%
Yeah, I heard he had attempted to bring more of the provincial hyper wealthy elites into the fold of the central government, creating much more buy-in from provincial magnates of other ethnic groups and subcultures, but much of his progress was undone after his reign as the senatorial patrician families reinvigorated their grasp on power.
@@jtzoltanthis invigoration was carefully orchestrated via an "interim" puppet emperor Nerva. Some say Nerva was a military intelligence agent based on his miraculous ability to be just in the right place at the right time, nearly always to his benefit. 🥷🏻⚔️👑
I tend to think so too. I think he was a brutal but effective Emperor. I think his biggest flaw seems to be wanting to micromanage everything and of course like this video suggests - his paranoia. Which you can’t really blame him for.
He was one of *extremely* few people in history to solve inflation. This is such an insurmountable feat, I only know of one other who's accomplished it. It's such a multi-faceted issue, I consider it far more impressive than any of the conquests of his brother or father. In fact, this alone puts him up in the same league as the more famous Caesar's, imo.
The tyrannical reputation he is remembered for was given by the senate, who hated him, partially because the inflation was a symptom of a process from which they benefited, and I can't think of any noble senators during his time. He was good to the people, and was a great emperor for it.
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you" - Kurt Cobain
Another fantastic entry from my favorite growing youtube channel! I hope you keep selecting topics you are passionate about, regardless of era.
I thought exhausted the UA-cam algo looking for fresh history... Then I find this channel, I cannot believe you're not more popular. Insane.
Past few months I've massively got into a weird celtic/Welsh folklore and Celtic history/pre roman British (and Post roman) stuff it's great to find quality on here with you it's hard to find and with references(!!!!!!)
Really enjoyed an older video of yours, on homosexuality in ancient Greece too.
Your videos are better than so many shitty books I've had to read just to get a nugget of what I was looking for, so diolch o galon, thanks!
Glad you Enjoyed it!
I applaud the straight forward factual information our homie shares, with just the right dose of down home apple pie personal smatterings of a good natured lads humor and AND but there's more...how about a bit of an extra large serving of some serious brownchickenbrowncow styling vibes that I'll bet are keepin' em wetter than a Bangladeshi Monsoon Season hmm?? (note: If our boy ever takes the highway ALL THE WAY to the danger zone and unveils a shiny chest addition, I take full responsibility starting right effing now). That said, I love the guys educational offerings and I vow (with relish) to watch every pitch he can throw at us, I thank you in advance. Sincerely, Your bloody mate, The Yank (ee).
I had to read this several times to understand it but thank you
@@generichistoryit's the thought that counts
hidden gem of a channel
I love the video, I'd highly recommend Brian Jones' book 'The Emperor Domitian'. Its a true rehabilitation of Domitian's reputation using modern evidence gathered over the last century or so, it questions many of the stories told about Domitian, and gives him much of the credit that was taken from him by ancient sources with a grudge who's narratives live on. To me the wildest story is Dominus et Deus, Domitian insisting to be called Master and God, the most obvious part of Roman logic that makes this questionable is that we know Domitian was very religious, he would have known that the best he could hope for was to be considered Divus, not Deus, why would someone so strict on Roman religion believe something so outlandish to the point of enforcing it on everybody else? The only evidence to back the claim were statues of Domitian that did indeed refer to him as Dominus not never Deus, although when Domitian died, the senate condemned his memory, which would mean the statues of Domitian would have been destroyed along with inscriptions and all other public signs of his legacy, the statues that refer to Domitian as Dominus were instead likely made not by Domitian, but by former slaves who defied the will of the senate to remember Domitian and still referred to Domitian as the master, which says a lot about how the Senatorial class who wrote the history books view Domitian, compared to how everybody else must have viewed him
His reform of the coinage, his handling of taxes and building programs truly laid the groundwork for the 5 good emperors, for example Suetonius credits Nero for much of the rebuilding of Rome after the fires, when really much was still left to build, then with all the civil wars plus the fires during Titus' reign, most of the work that went into rebuilding Rome should be credited to Domitian. The key to understanding Domitian's reign was not through his relationship with the senate, because Domitian did not rule through the senate, he ruled through Imperial Courts, making him the first Roman Emperor, to act as though the Republic was truly dead.
To sum up most of the senate back then, their attitude was "this emperor is so crazy and paranoid, he thinks we are plotting to kill him" but if you followed up by asking "have you been trying to kill him?" the answer would be "yes, non stop for his entire reign, we even got close once but that only made him more crazy and paranoid towards the end of his reign". you'd think maybe if you survived more assassination attempts from the senate than any emperor before you, your paranoia is justified.
Thank you for the recommendation
As a fan of Lindsey Davis's comedy mysteries set in the Flavian dynasties from Vespasian to Domitian, concerning the cases of Marcus Didius Falco and his adopted Britannic daughter Flavia Albia, I watched your lecture with enjoyment.
Davis wrote a standalone fictional novel based on Domitian's reign called 'MASTER AND GOD' including a believable description of his how his death could have been managed when it inevitably went wrong.
I recommend Davis's books as she described many aspects of the Roman Empire from the standpoint of a Republican plebian with a skeptical attitude. Very funny and often outraging.
I thank you for your lecture, so I subscribed and hit the like button in gratitude for your efforts.
We usually think of the mafia as something negative that arose long after the Roman Empire fell, but the more I learn, the more I realize Rome was always gangsters, even back to its founding times. 😮
At the start of filming "I, Claudius", the great BBC series, the actors didn't know how to portray those famous Romans. As nobility? Warriors? Then the author, Robert Graves, told them: "They're the Mafia."
practically all ruling families through history scheme for and hold power similarly.
Fantastic video! I loved how you put yourself in Domitian's shoes! I hope your channel keeps growing and you find a larger audience. Are you aware of the podcast "Let's Talk about Myths, Baby"? It's mostly about Greek myths and literature, but lately it has been branching out into History and as well. I think you would make a great guest.
Thanks! It’s interesting seeing things from Domitian’s perspective because he was undoubtably a brutal and arbitrary man. But reading about how his childhood and adolescence shopped him does make him quite sympathetic. I’ve never heard of the podcast but will certainly give it a listen
23:39 wow you read my mind here lol. I was thinking about the similarities between Domitian and Stannis throughout the video and you drop that at the end. Amazing. I wonder if GRRM took any inspiration from Domitian in his writing?
Just found your channel and I am hooked I love history and study it every day, but Roman history especially the Roman empire has always seemed so daunting to me you’re Roman emperors video was very well put together it’s been a long time since I’ve learned so much new information from a history video keep up the good work
"Relatively short" for Titus' reign? It was only two years. It was extremely short for peacetime.
Nice, I've been curious about Domitian's paranoia since you mentioned the mirrors in your Roman Emperors speedrun. And if you're thinking about branching out into medieval history, I'd be interested in anything about the governance of Great Britain after the Romans left and before William the Conqueror arrived: the remaining Celts, the Angles/Saxons/Jutes, the Norse, and anyone else I've missed. Or how the parts of Europe outside the empire got Christianized.
Post-roman Britain is certainly in the making
Hey. Decent video. I liked it. However I have some complaints about the sources you used. All those stories saying that Domitian was downplayed by his father are the results of later propaganda. In truth, Domitian was appointing officials even before Vespasian came back to Rome in 70. And during his father's rule, he always got one less consulship than his brother, which in turn got two less than Vespasian himself. Domitian even got granted his own rights to mint coins with his own image.
And when he was a child it would have been difficult for him to join his brother or father in their military career. We have to remember that they were following orders and they couldn't just go where they pleased. Their lives belonged to the emperor.
As for Stephanus, I wouldn't say his mistress Domitilla was involved in the conspiracy. Stephanus joined the conspiracy because he was just charged with embezzlement and that was his way of escaping justice.
And he was avenged by the praetorians. Early in 97 the truth got out who really was the main conspirator. Two in fact. Parthenius, the head chamberlain of Domitian and Petronius Secundus, the praetorian prefect. So months after Domitians death it was still a very hot topic among praetorians and they rushed to kill both of them. Which tells us that Domitian really was missed. Anyway praetorians hold Nerva hostage and demand execution of Parthenius and Petronius. Emperor didn't agree but they went and kill them anyway.
And as for leaving the nation in the better state, I can see your point, but we can't forget that Domitian laid down all bases for the future rules of Trajan and Hadrian, and those two took a lot of his work to their credit.
My favourite part of this video is the just in frame plug sockets
Loving your channel! Would you consider doing a video on Thermisticles? He's one of my favourite historical figures and I'd love to hear your take on him.
Either way, keep up the great work - I'm learning so much 😊
Thanks! I’ll probably get to Themistocles and the Persian wars at some point I reckon
Great like the delivery and the chill nature of the video, can use more objectivity of both sides tho.
Fascinating and expertly written - a great little video essay :)
I recently checked how much views your shorts were getting, and then got sad because surely you wouldn't bother making longer vids anymore. But here you are :D
aye the shorts were a fun experiment, but now i have more time ill probably do more of the longform stuff that I enjoy
@@generichistory Yay!
Wasn't much of the damage left by the Great Fire repaired by the time of Domitian' reign?
Awesome video!
Please keep making them!
Very relatable.
@generic ONE OF MY FAVORITE CHANNELS!!!
I see you with the Loeb edition
Awesome! Keep ‘em coming!
Domitian: solid 2.5/5 emperor
I think Domitian might have been one of the best emporers. The sentaros hated him and they were the historians of the time, so they wrote of him...unfavourably.
But in terms of for the greater good of the Roman Empire, he might have been one of the best. He centralised everything quite efficiently and a lot was achieved in his reign.
Even though I'm Irish I don't like that he recalled Agricola from Britain but considering the context of the time and Agricola's popularity, it makes sense. The senetorial class probably would have rallied around Agricola to have Domitian killed and replaced.
Generally people don't blame others for wanting to survive. Domitian found himself in a situation as Emperor where no one wanted him as Emperor and he didn't have a network/group of allies as a base. They wanted Agricola as emperor, but that doesn't mean they were correct. I would think Agricola would have been the better general by far and maybe the better emperor, but tbh I suspect a trusted Domitian would have achieved more as emperor than Agricola, as much as I respect Agricola (even if he severely underestimated my countrymen at the time).
I love your videos on history😅
Seems to me every ancient Roman had good reason to fear someone wanted to kill them. It's not paranoia if it's true.
You'd be safer as a German warrior who caught spears for sport than the Roman emperor.
Learnt alot, thanks
1) Vestal virgins didn’t have a choice when they get chosen to be one and focused to leave the family
2) it was a punishment unused, and barbaric - what if they decimated the army again? It was tradition and still around even the time of Galba . Still insane to do it (assassinated by the way)
3) Domitian had affair left and right while he told others not to. Hypocrite
I’m a fan of his actually but this point of yours about the vestal virgin I disagree and think it too harsh and barbaric
Shut up😂😂
Nice bass
Journalist: Is the USA paranoid?
Kissinger: .... .... Even paranoiacs have enemies 😂
Wow great video, lovely people them Romans 😂😂😂
You're not paranoid if you're right.
Good video 10/10
Why the last part of your vid under blanket? 😅
Stannis is good too, I like Domitian, and Stannis. It's actors I don't like.
SO WHAT ABOUT HIS RELATIONS WITH THE CHRISTIANS?? there was a lot going on there still. he must have had some good inside information that we would love to have now..