The Ultimate Harley Davidson Pan America Dilemma
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2024
- Is Harley Davidson's new Pan America CVO a mistake? Some critics say yes, and in this video, we'll talk about why some say this bike is not living up to the Harley Davidson name.
The much-anticipated release of the Pan America CVO has caused quite a stir in the motorcycle world, with some saying it's not what they expected from the iconic brand. Join us as we dive into the controversy surrounding this new bike and explore why it may not be living up to its potential.
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OK, I'm old. I've had more Harleys than I can remember. I had 2 Buells and I've had an assortment of Adv motorcycles of almost every brand. I now have a 22 Pan America. I've got to say that I love this bike. It gets in the dirt but most importantly for a 71 year old dude it eats the highway up like a MF'er. Comfort, baggage, hauls ass and I could go on. I've had a couple of updates and 0 problems. But, having said that I get what this Bro is saying. Its a quirky looking fucker and they're growing cobwebs on the showroom floor. I knew when I bought it that it was already a dog on the resale market. I bought a 22 in 2023 and beat them up on the price because of it. This bike isn't for everybody but at the end of the day, maybe decades from now it'll be legendary. Like Knuckleheads and Panheads are today. I'm keeping mine. I'll just roll this fucker in the corner and throw a blanket over it when I get tired of it and ride something else. But I won't be selling it. Maybe my kid will, but I won't. LOL Semper Fi My Man. Good video.
@denniswhite905. Very interesting, I love Harleys and any other thing with 2 wheels. Grew up on dirt bikes and motocross/trails.
I've been on the fence about getting one. Not anymore, I'm buying one. You talked me into it.
Ok, confession time. I have 5 Harleys in my stable. My oldest one is the first Harley I ever owned and it's 25 years old. My newest one is the Pan Am. Since I bought the Pan Am 6 months and several thousand miles ago, it has become my everyday bike as well as my touring bike and, It will also be my Sturgis bike this year. I have already sold one of my other Harleys and another is on the market. I've had no issues with the Pan Am it's gone off-road and handled everything I've asked of it without complaint. Love the ride, love the bike and will never sell it either. In the end I will have only two bikes. My first Harley I ever owned and the Pan Am.
I agree with you. I sold my Road Glide and My Honda XR650R and bought a 22 PA. Mainly because I'm 65 and I am not the man I used to be. This thing is much lighter than the RG and not as capable off road as the XR. That makes it easier to ride on the street and keeps me from getting over my head on the dirt. Best cas for me! I understand what he is saying nd it is very much a personal decision. Best thing so far is smoking all my buddies who are still on baggers! tHE THING RIPS! LOL
Pan Am owner here. I got mine this past july, it was a '22. So presumably on the floor a while. They gave me a great deal with some nice add ons. Anyway, i am 90% on road and 10% "off" (maintained service roads basically). I went with it because i kept my sportster and i honestly did not like the feel of the 'glides. I test road everything a few times and never felt at home with them. So far i love the bike and plan on using it for touring mostly. I think with the CVO they are trying to show people that, hey..it can be a full-on road tourer. Most HD guys that i've met out on the road tell me "oh i loved the pan am, but im not an off road rider". I've heard that so much that it seems like HD has told them, "off road only use". That said, i still think the CVO was an odd choice, a lighter, 975 PA would have done well (as well as the bronx). I just want to see a rev max bagger at some point
I traded my 2019 RG for a 22 PA and on my way home from the dealer I was asking myself did I screw up? 5 miles later I was smiling from ear to ear and a year and a half later I’m still smiling.
Im a Streetglide guy and have test road the Pan America in 2021 and I was impressed with the motor but I wouldn't have bought one. In 2023 I bought a second hand PAN America as second bike and after some modifications like Arrows headers and TBR muffler (takes 40% of the heat out the exhaust.) I really love the PAN America, I'm every weekend on it and I never thought I would replace my Streetglide as favourite bike with the PAN America but I did. I love the PAN America ❤❤❤
That’s cool
I have a Road Glide and the Pan Am is way easier to ride, turn, etc.
I love my Pan America. This was my 1st HD afte riding for 30+ years,so I am not the typical customer. I've only had a couple minor issues, nothing leaving me stranded. My dealer seems to move them off the floor, but when I talk to the Service guys they tell me I'm only one of three they see regurally (HOG milage check ins). I do not see they out and about. I heard a lot of chatter about how long it was taking the Service guys to get trained but what about the sales team? Most do not even know how to tell if the bike has ARH or to use hill hold. If you walk into a power sports dealer they will have a "Ducati " or a "Triumph" specific sales person. Maybe they should try that. Personally I am glad to hear about the CVO option. If anything it shows they are truley trying to make this work. CVO is a Harley term. They should have went with a GT, or Rally Pro. Something that fits into the Adventure eco system.
I think they should have made the Bronx instead of the Pan America.
21 PAS owner here. As an individual who owns GS's and KTM adventure rides, the PA is the one the gets ridden most often - it is an amazing bike overall. That said, releasing a CVO version of the PA seems like a marketing Band-Aid. The way to improve PA sales (and meet the adventure market needs) is to release the mid-size PA (the heavily rumored 975). This would stimulate up line sales of the 1250 as well as show commitment to the ADV market - bringing a larger swath of the ADV focused buyers.
man I'd love to see that 975 one.
Well said, sir. I've been watching and waiting for the "updated, corrected, 'now we have the problems fixed'" version of the PAS. My Ultra Classic has reached 100,000 miles. It's not warn out because it's well maintained. However, I'm tired of it and I want something different. So, I'm waiting for a solid PAS. However, like you said, I'm not going to buy a CVO that will be used off-pavement. I'll keep the rocks on the road and not in my head, thank you. The new 1300 GS is looking better and better.
Cool. Now i love mine even more. Guess i am not a Harley guy. Oh well. Glad the brand let me in anyways.
First thing I said was, “that’s stupid.” A CVO Pan America- 🤦♂️, way to go Harley- yall missed it again.
I am road glide cvo st rider and I am currently negotiating for the cvo pan .. you just gave me ammo for the sales floor to get me a deal ..Thank you!! :)
Turns out the cvo versions are selling pretty quickly. Dealers gonna do what the dealers gonna do but I hope you get a Smokin deal
If Harley Davidson can fix the bugs (check engine light warning at high altitude, no start issues with the handlebar modules, defective handlebar welds, front ABS locking up and a defective fuel pump which imploded at 15,000 miles) it would have a better chance of selling the Pan American. I owned a 2022 Nightster which I loved, but after experiencing all the above, problems, I got rid of it and bought a 2023 Street Bob.
I loved my GS. I wanted something different. Everyone in UK has a GS. I LOVE my Pan Am. I’m my opinion it’s a better bike than my 1250 GS was and that was a great bike.
Harley riders are not Adventure riders....so it's hard to get the BMW, KTM etc crowd in...the PanAm has had electrical and other issues that has plagued them as well...solid bike but hard in the culture of Harley...
It's really hard. Pulling cruiser riders into an ADV bike is not a marketing strategy. HD needs to pull ADV riders from Triumph, KTM, BMW etc. I am one of them that bought a Pan Am and kept my Truimph Tiger as well. We are like unicorns. I never before owned a HD bike before the Pan America
Being a former owner of eleven HD era Buell motorcycles, I see history repeating itself here with the Pan America
Galf of the HD dealers dont want anything to do withthem and want them to go away.
I tour alot and I gave seen many dealerships that bury them in the rear of their showrooms.
There have been dealers that were positive about them and promote them but they are not in the majority.
This is how it went with Buells as well.
Also the motor company does not advertise them at all on tv at all it seems.
The trade in value is appalling.
My 2022 lost 10 g in trade in just the first year.
Now at 2 years old with 23,000 miles Since new its practically worthless for trade or resale.
I suspected this would be the case when I bought it.
Therfore I purchased the full extended tire to tire warranty for the duration of the loan period.
I love this bike.
I did not buy it as an investment.
I bought it to tour and daily ride the wheels off of it.
Its a freaking shame that it will not be around for very much longer.
Ive been riding HDs since 1987 along with other brands in my stable.
As a motorcycle its the best bike HD has ever produced.
But as you said to Harley only people its of no interest to them. What a pity
Maybe a regional thing. My next door neighbor is the local HD dealership owner. This past summer, he couldn't keep a new sportster or nightster on the floor. Sold them as fast as they came in.
They were hoping to get the BMW guy and such to come over to Harley and become a Harley for life boy! But the only people buying them are the people who walk into a Harley dealership already.
Just cant even believe that. And they take away the road king standard....wtf.
They need to scrap cvo pan am, and bring back the cvo road king....and the king standard...period.
I would love to see the return of the king standard
Very good video and I believe your comments were on point with respect to the CVO. I am not certain that it was needed, specifically considering how good of a tourer the Pan America Special is already. Unless Harley bring Apple carplay on the 2024 bike I don't see the need to deck the Pan America further in luxury. How many people are really buying a luxurious ADV, included in this category is the new GS1300 tramuntana, How many will buy this option of the GS? I have a 02 Pan America and I love the bike. I am not a Harley loyalist and have owned several other bikes including the BMW. What made me switch is the adjustable ride height. I am getting older (north of 55) and I have a short inseam, I hope to be riding another 25-30 years. So I did not want to lean my bike on my legs when stopping anymore. The one thing that I think needed to be mentioned, is that the Pan America puts a smile on my face everyday, even when comparing with the other ADV bikes, that Harley has nailed. Such a joy to ride, I live in Canada and ride typically early May to mid December this bike is perfect in all conditions, daily driver, tourer or mild off-road riding. Having said that, it is not for everyone, but take it from someone who turns about 15000 km (about 9300 miles) a year, LOTS of SMILES.
how many engines does Harley have now with the various displacements? Anybody?
Im seriously considering a pan am next year. My dream bike is a road king special. That's the comfy looking distance bike for me and the wife. But the pan am makes a lot of sense for life up here in northern alberta. Bad roads. But a ton of ATV trails and endless dirt roads to explore. Extend my ride season a couple months on either end.
This into should come in handy when it's time to negotiate lol
Interesting video, I basically don’t agree with anything in it because I love my Pan Am. I’ve had it for two years and I basically don’t even ride my road glide anymore.
And for all those Harley snobs that don’t wave to me on the road, well you better wake up because Harley needs to expand their customer base because the standard customer is dying off so I’m glad Harley Davidson expanded into the off-road market. I’ve put about 10,000 miles on my bike and almost 2 years and I love every minute of it, I’ll never NOT have a Pan-American in my garage. That’s how I feel.
Loving your pan america has nothing to do with the points in my video. In fact I praised the bike itself.
The Harley market dying off thing has been a myth for decades now btw.
Well part of my point( not expressed )is I have a 92 Fatboy, a 2007 road glide and the Pan Am and it’s amazing to me how many Harley riders/owners thumb their nose at the Pan Am…
you said in your video “Harley Davidson people don’t want them. It’s a fact “and that’s frustrating to me because they won’t give them a chance…
So I guess my frustration is misplaced so for that, I apologize!
Well, crap...the dealer i work at had 5 pan ams on the floor then we got a shipment of three enthusiast pan ams. Just this past Saturday, we took delivery of NINE, all of them black, pan ams. I don't know what the owner is thinking. But, it's not my problem...😂
Harley’s problem is that they are in a weird transition period where the og Harley guy cant ride anymore and the new guy only has 2 bikes to choose from. They need to commit to making new Harley guys that swear on their Rev Max engine, if they dont they will eventually die as a motorcycle brand and focus solely on merch. But for that to happen they need to both take a loss on their Rev Max engines for a bit, and double commit regardless and keep making new limited editions models and new category of bikes. The Rev Max engine could actually make for a very interesting sports bike, although thats not gonna happen any time soon, the brand is just not ready yet for such a commitment.
I owned a 21 PAS traded in once I hit 30,000 miles for 22PAS just hit 32,000 on it trade-in for a 23 heritage 120th anniversary edition. Love the Pan America.
It’s a great bike for what it is
Interesting to hear the RevMax motors are not selling. I thought that the Sportster S and the Nightster would be doing well. Maybe that's because I want a Nightster though (I just can't swing one right now).
I love the PA and did trade my Road Glide for it. No regrets at all. 300 lbs lighter, fast, nimble and this bike is more “me.” I also am trading in the PA for the CVO version as my breakdown goes. I like the changes made in the 24 year to the bike. It has the add ons that I wanted for roughly the same price if I added them on w labor through the dealer. The paint is an added bonus. I have no plans of making the bike a garage show bike. I ride my shit usually 4-5 ,000 miles a year. I will off road with this bike. I rode the bike to work today 35 degrees. I know I’m the exception probably but that’s what I like. Life is short and I’m going for it daily. If there is a Harley stereotype, I was never it.
Mr Bogator,I’d love to become a patreon member,but unfortunately I’m saving up for a new CVO Pan America!😂
The 2021, 22, and perhaps 23 all have a reputation of Gremlins with the engine. Too many "New Bike" problems. A smart consumer doing research will not want an early model Rev-Max Engine. Hopefully, the 2024, have fixed the issues.
Fingers crossed for Harley
Lockdown bikes are all a problem...French built Yamahas and Aprilias especially...Aprilia were having to replace 1000s of engines due to faulty con rods,21m/y bikes best avoided, like anything built just after a strike!
@@williamrae9954
That’s a very good point, I didn’t even think of that.
That a Bike built during the Age of Lockdown is most likely built half-Ass with no regard for quality Control.
@@elithegreat6463 My friend bought a John Deere forage harvester,built just after a strike in Germany, literally bankrupted him...he say,if he'd bought a New Holland the company would have probably survived!
I'm considering purchasing a PAS. I found your comments/opinions on the PA to be spot on. That said, it is high time for HD to get out of its rut. While I have no intention of trading in my 08 FXDF as it has served me well for 158,000 miles; the PAS makes sense to me. The Fat Bob was a bit challenged by rides to the North Slope of Alaska and other similar rides. I hope that HD will invest in a line of ADV bikes from small displacement and up. It might be tough to build and prove they are competitive but perhaps beneficial in the long run.
First problem with the Revmax engine is that it's new. Literally new, not air cooled tweeked for over a century. But they have to do that to continue in the future dealing with the EPA. I'll come back to the EPA. And the Revmax is exactly what it says, it revs. It's not the Torquemax. Probably something HD should consider for their future cruiser models. Ducati made liquid cooled torque monsters for years before they had the Panigale line. A CVO PanAm should not look like a dresser CVO. Fancy paint job, top of the line leather seat yes (and it better be standard with heating for his and hers). Then adorned with quality crash protection and aux lights, luggage and travel tools. Just my opinion. Getting back to the EPA. HD has no leverage or balls in this area, being a motorcycle company. It would take Ford, GM, and Chrysler, along with Japan, to tell the EPA to go fornicate themselves. As motorcycle companies, they produce what, maybe 1% of the vehicles on the road? And yet they are being heavily choked by emissions, which they have next to no effect on in the world. Nearly all vehicles of the past decade or more, intake dirtier air, than what comes out the tailpipe now. But the biggest issue with HD. Get rid of the foreigner that's CEO. The idea of HD being all electric, is far worse than any poor electrics PanAm, AMF year HD, that has ever been produced. This company will be brought down to ruins with this fool. HD around the world is known, and loved, for exactly what it is. You say HD, and everyone around the world says "Hell Yeah Brother!"
You are so right, between the dead wire, the Paris Dacar rally bike and the V-Rod 2.0 it's not working
Exactly the comment why the normies walk past H/D dealers...and I'm related to the Davidsons
New things take time to catch on. I got it as my second bike along side the 24 CVO ST. It’s faster, rides better and I’m not worried about it getting dirty. I’ll ride the CVO on Sunday afternoon when there’s 0 percent chance of rain. Since I’ve had mine and guys have seen it up close 2 of them have bought em for them. Im going to tail of the dragon next weekend. Which am I taking? PAN AMERICA. no question.
I have a Harley Pan Am ('22) and am an ADV rider who owns a 2020 Triumph Tiger 900 and have ridden the BMW GS 1250. The Pan Am is my first ever Harley. I have never ridden a Harley cruiser and don't want to. The Pan Am (after being in the shop on delivery for 40 days) is a great machine. I use it for touring and light off road. CVO? I would never buy it. Sadly, while I am happy with the Pan Am, I see Harley guys trying to make the Pan Am into a cruiser, adding highway pegs, etc etc etc. which tells me the Pan Am may not survive. I hope I am wrong. I am not looking to sell mine. It's a good ADV bike, it really is. It however, may be a flash in the pan.
After test riding a friend’s Pan Am last year I was dead set on trading in my Tiger 1200 Rally Pro for one. Got to the dealership and the sales manager actually talked me out of buying one, citing many of the same reasons you talked about. Reliability and poor resale value etc. Ended up buying a Lowrider ST, which has been awesome.
Common theme. They’re great bikes til it’s time to buy one
This is the problem that Unc points out. HD guys (the hell ya brother crowd) only like one style (baggers) and they will talk you out of anything different. Dealers included. Its nice seeing some dealers like Matt Laidlaw and Yaeger's Cycle championing these bikes, but thats in the minority unfortunately.
You sound like a crybaby, I swear man everyone just likes to run to social media and complain it’s so old & exhausting. No bike is perfect. My brand new $30k SG ST needed a new suspension, new seat, cam, etc etc. just enjoy the motorcycles man. The negative Nancy’s on social media are sad humans. Harley dealerships talking people out of something they want is wild. They should be selling pizzas and not someone’s hobby.
I am a staunch Harley supporter. I have a '22 PAS, and a '21 Street Glide. I love both bikes for what they are. By far, the PAS is a superior machine in every way. Suspension, motor , comfort and the fun factor. I use the Pan as intended, an Adventure Tourer - rode it 28 days straight last July to the Arctic Ocean. Mine was flawless, but I did a lot of prep. The problem is the dealers. They have to commit in sales, culture and service. Many treat the PA as a nuisance. Sad, because they could really build a loyal customer group. HD Corporate has given the Dealers the tools, now, they need to commit and execute or the best bike HD makes will be another Buell Ulysses cast off.
@ridewithhollywood8487
That is so true.
HD management better get their heads out into the sunlight soon.
@unclebogator I know my comment is a few weeks after your upload but I’d love your input here. I think I’m the perfect customer for a Pan Am. I’ve had lots of small displacement duals but I’m a tall rider. I live down lots of gravel and don’t want a cruiser for that reason.
My HD dealer has a new ‘21 PA base. With the deep discount on it, is the base worth it for mainly gravel roads or is it still better to go with the PA Special?
I honestly wouldn't know what to tell you man. That's a very individual question and answer. If you want it and it's a deal go for it
I think where you live depends on how well the sale of the bike is, bc from any metric I’ve seen it’s the best selling large adv bike on market. Not my style, but the cvo is their “custom”. Bc we’ve been so used to their typical cvo we view it as flashy. But all manufacturers do it, Yamaha with the teneré, the Nordon 901 etc., all have a “special or custom edition” with a flashier look.
You said Harley shouldn't have spent the resources on r&d for the cvo pan am. I argue they didn't spend anything and just had an intern take a parts catalog home for the weekend.
You're dead on. The only thing unique about the CVO is the paint and the seat. Everything else is straight out of the MOCO parts catalog for the PAS.
Maybe the pan am special should be abbreviated pOs. 🤪
Well if they make a P A in 650 cc I buy one I lime the looks of it but I have no use for a big bike I just ride back and forth to work.
The rumored 950 is still too big,700cc,285degree crank,parallel twin,shorter w/b...winner...and stick the battery/rectifier up out of harms way! Styling I have no issues with, prefer it over BMW/KTM
I traded my 19 Street Glide on my 22 Pan America it’s just about to hit 2 years old. I’ve had some issues which I figured I would being a second year on a new platform. Nothing real bad but the time it takes to get it repaired is what is killing me. I do agree with most of what you have stated about the Pan America. I’ve learned that I love adventure riding and this will be my last Harley Davidson I buy more than likely. Their new bike got me into adventure riding and Harleys inability to support it adequately had made sure I won’t buy another.
I love your videos man even when you rode the road glide.
Cheers bud appreciate it.
Yeah the slow support irks a lot of folks. Get 10 techs who work on Milwaukee 8s all day and throw a pan America at them it’s a tough transition.
I had the Pan America. LOVED IT. When it ran! Prior to the motor blowing and the 10 or so other issues it had in the year I owned it and Harley buying the bike back, I had a year of nothing but trouble. That being said, my back and specifically my tail bone loved the re-introduction to a non cruiser seating position. After years of my hands up in the wind and my feet forward I was finding it more and more difficult to ride long distances. Than I got the pan am and I rode that puppy with zero discomfort. Then it became a paperweight. Now I’m on the BMW R1250GSA. ALLS I CAN SAY IS, WOW. Loved my pan am. He’ll, I took that thing from NJ to Yellowstone and all around out west. It was amazingly comfortable. That all being said, my first BMW has been a truly amazing experience. Maybe one day the next generation of Pan Am will catch my eye. Or I’ll just pick up a Softail or road glide again and have the two completely different options to choose from.
Yeah lots of bikes in stock. Little support
Spot on brother! But next time we need more Uncle BoMomma too! She da bomb.
I would have been interested in one if they hadn't have been so tall.
I purchased a new pan America last year and I do love the bike but the earlier models where riddled with electrical gremlins, if you do buy a 21-23 make sure you have a warranty and not be shy to tell them if you notice anything off with it like error codes, check engine light etc.
It seems the name or term for this bike Pan America would be better categorized as a Sport Touring Motorcycle. And then HD would trim it out as such, lower seat height, may help sell more of them. I’m saying staying strictly street the Pan America, and calling it a Sport Touring Motorcycle.
Could go that way
the "sport" bags they sell for the PA are advertised as "street only" so i think they just need to be more explicit about it, like you mention
Might be regional. The dealership I bought from there wasn’t any on the floor. This is down in Arizona. Anecdotal but just a thought. Either way I’m still an air cooled fan.
LIKE TO SEE THAT REVMAX MOTOR IN A SOFTAIL FRAME... A Nwe super V-Rod. I would put that in my stable next to my 2023 FXST. just me. thanks for your insight
Traded a CVO RoadGlide limited for a PAS. It is a fun nimble bike. It was the best selling ADV bike last year?
Yeah it’s a great bike. But cvo? Why?
It was the # selling ADV bike ONLY in the USA, where not alot of ADV bikes are sold.
They got the lucky hit for having the bigger cult following in the US. Don't get it twisted into thinking the Pan Am compares to the rest of the ADV world.
Like he said, Harley was more concerned with pushing a new custom model for premium $$$ instead of simply fixing all the problems with the current ones and improving them.
It has its place but it's not for me. With 151 horsepower it is definitely on road also. Going CVO now they will be taking that bike out of price range. Don't need a custom paint for something that will go off road even now and then.
Common sense comment! Harley continues to toy with those dufus CVO guys that are trying to impress everyone with what they have!
HD was smart to make an Adventure bike, but not a CVO version! You are certainly right that the Pan America does not play to the existing HD base. It's a new market for HD, and HD needs to do the hard lifting to win in that market They will not win by expecting the existing HD owners to put a Pan America in their garage. The number of middle aged or older guys and gals that want to get into adventure riding (dirt roads, off the beaten path kind of adventures) is going to continue to grow for a while and HD is a very valid choice, but they need to do play to that non-HD market, and use their brand to position the benefits they offer this market.
Agree. And dealers need to not be so shy about them too in my opinion. I have a hunch and a short amount of experience that says the bikes are not being shown
I am fully with you on the view of how this bike is an issue for Harley. I also agree that with motorcycles but especially with Harley, other people judge you on what you ride. Sportster? Girls bike. Milwaukee 8? Not a Harley motor. Panamerica? WTF.
I often think, that being almost 50 years old sucks but there is one thing that I like about being an old guy. I do not give a shit what other people think of my bike. I currently ride a F850 GSA and it is not a beauty, it is not the "big one" and it is "too heavy to properly go offroad". I don't care, i test rode the thing, liked it mucho and bought it. I am happy with it. I will eventually test the Panamerica and the new 1300 GS and when I buy my next bike and I have the cash, I will buy the bike that rides the best and feels the best. I ride all year long, only stop when it snows, ride to work, do 2500 mile round trips to Croatia, and usually when the "pretty bike" boys come out of their garage end of march, not many of them frown uppon me after we have been out together.
So look forward to getting old and having that "i don't give a shit" attitude towards others, I know I am not cool and I don't need to be....but I can ride pretty well 😁
Wic.
Im 68 in excellent health and fitness.
Currently ride a 2022 PA, an 07 1200 Sportster and an 03 KLR 650 ( my winter bike) choice of ride is totally a personal choice and yes fuck anyone who doesnt like what I ride .
They didnt buy it for me..
I always find a compliment to say for everyones bike.
I kniw how much they love it as I do mine.
Amen
They will not sell 1000 PAS CVO
I just bought a new 22PAS with 102 miles on it for $12,000. They sold it as used to dump it
I rented one a year ago. I loved how it rode. But electronics were quirky.
i bought my second Pan America Special.this year.(The Netherlands) I trade in my pan america special 2021 i ride harley from 1986. Ihad the FXRsuper glide, electra glide sport and electra glide ultra, XR 1200 and XR 1200X , Low Rider s and the Electra glide Police. and i have a Harley Davidson MT 350 e.
Harley needs to break the Pan America out into it's own brand like they did with the Livewire, and really price them competitively. Slapping a CVO badge on it and charging even more is a classic corporate (and government) move LOL! Where if something is broke or not working, instead of stopping and figuring it out, they just double down and throw more money at it.
I had a 2022 Pan Am Special for 6 months and 18,000 miles and it was the worst bike I ever owned. Warranty covered a new engine due to a timing chain tensioner failure, 2 body control modules, a fuel pump, radiator hose, 2 stators, battery, and a right hand control module. Extremely fun, but utterly unreliable. HD as a corporation was exceptional to deal with a gave a full refund without having to use my state's lemon law. I have since moved to a less thrilling, but significantly more reliable and refined 1250GSA. The changes for the 2024 Pan Am should help, but the Pan's reputation has already been tarnished in the ADV world. The Pan Am is not the right tool for riders that put up big miles or ride in incredibly remote places.
When HD said it was coming out with off road bike Iwas thinking the 500 or 750 to try to get people interested in them to me think that would have been better
I think the PanAmerica would have been better advertise as a sport tour. 😅 I have a sport tour 2015 Kawasaki Concours I love that bike if I were to replace it, I would consider a PanAmerica set up as a sport tour.
Great video
See ya Uncle!🙋♂️
Maybe in Florida there's just not a big market for them. To me Florida is a cruiser market not a off road market. I bet they sell a lot of PA say out west and other parts of the country. I would love to have a PA one day once I get one of my Harley's paid off. I worked with a guy who has a PA he loves it rides it all year. Here in Ohio the winters can be kind of harsh at times but he still rides it.
I reckon their best use is high speed touring. 20 hp is plenty to spin tires in the mud. Why anyone would spend $25k for 150hp bike to do that seems a little over the top.
I think the 975 in the sport standard they were planning would be about perfect, but they gotta do something with the left side of that engine. The right side of the bikes looks pretty nice, but the left looks like something built in a shop class in a rush.
I don't think the point of these bikes is to appeal to old people who just want a comfortable bike. I'm sure the idea is to bring new people into their dealerships, but I think you're right. There is just way too much competition in the ADV market and there's not much that makes HD stand out there. IMO, the best feature they have over their competition is rarely mentioned, no valve adjustment requirements. Cheap, easy maintenance is the one of the best things about all Harleys.
If they can't get rid of em, they are allowed to sent me one. 😆With the paniards and a comfortable backseat and backrest maybe mounted to the top case for a passenger.
I think they're cool, would I go (heavy) off roading with it, nah, some easy tracks or just solid road riding, yes most definitely. 😆
Would I buy one myself? No, way better and cheaper options out there, for touring oriented purposes. Kawasaki's Versys and 1000SX, Yamaha's Tracer's Niken and FJR, Honda Africa Twin, Gold Wing and NT line for example. Suzuki's GSX-S 1000GT, BMW 1000 XR, GS's and F series, Ducati, KTM Adventure, Moto Guzzi all have those options as well.
Maybe a totally different type of bike say a cruiser/bagger are solid choices. You can tour on any bike, just some are better designed for it.
I think the CVO of the Pan Am will be more of limited buy, so makes people maybe want it more. idk this just came in my head as a possibility. 😆
😂 I love how you nailed why I have one. It's my fourth harley and I got it for 14k.
I’ll never trade in my Road Glide Limited. It’s an awesome bike, and my wife and I have traveled most of the country on it.
That being said, I will also have either a 1250/1300 GS or a Pan America in my garage eventually (got other unrelated priorities first).
BUT… if it’s a Pan America, it’s gonna be in a few years, after they’ve worked out more of the bugs. I think HD’s on the right track with the PA, but like you said, it’s gotta be able to handle a drop in a puddle to get my money, so it’s gotta show some improvement.
Semper Fi, bud!
amen
Nailed it
Cheers 🍻
My local dealer has a 22 special with 624 miles for 13k.
Good deal honestly
Heres one other thing i wanted to mention. As the dealer i have gone to knows i buy most always the highest end bikes. I notived that the same cvo have been sitting also. As a matter of fact they have not sold them. They have 8 as of now that have been sitting. I did note that this dealer only has one Pan left and they sold before the cvos?
Yeah Harley overloaded the dealers with leftover cvos near the end of the year. Very bad move. Too many on the floor takes the exclusive feeling away.
I like the PanAmerica. But I'm a Buell owner so my tastes are for odd or unusual bikes. With rare exceptions, if I like a model of HD it will have lousy sales and a short production life. Substantial price cuts, and BOGO deals would likely help sales but HD giving up any of their margins would tarnish their "premium brand". With as many used bikes as I saw listed by a certain spacey dealer and its related dealerships a couple months back, I wonder if it is '09 all over again. Hope you like things over here on the east side of the state.
Aaronfarnsworth7
I hear ya brother.
Im on a 2022 PAS and am loving it but concerned about the lackadaisical efforts by alot of dealers and the MOCO in supporting this machine.
Fortunately my home dealer is PA positive and the lead tech owns and rides one.
Like you I was a huge fan of the HD era Buells.
Owned eleven of them from 94 untill 2011..
I would hate to see the Pan America suffer the same fate.
Will keep my 2022 when its paid off and buy a 2025 .
That should keep me for the rest of my riding life. Im 68 and healthy so I expect a few more years on the road.
Ride on brother
@@paulwojnar2291 The PA looks like a useful machine for someone as a primary mode of transportation. Equipped with the panniers, as it should be, an owner has hauling capability greater than the baggers, street glide, road glide, etc.
It's not in my financial reach at this time but I do hope it sells enough to survive. I understand the criticisms of the CVO PA's attractive paint being counter to a hard use bike and a waste of money from that perspective, but it is the best looking paint scheme for those with the cash.
The olive drab G.I. version from 2022 was my previous favorite.
I would prefer the PA to have belt drive instead of chain. Then it could have been the liquid cooled son of Ulysses.
No entiendo por qué es una moto que no se mueve más en el mercado, quizá falta más publicidad o atraer a otro tipo de clientes. En cualquier caso tengo que decir que tengo una 2022, que es mi primera moto Harley Davidson y estoy encantado con ella. La uso para rutas de fin de semana con mi mujer y nunca falta gente que se acerca a mirarla. Para mí es una pasada de moto.😊
That is one of Harleys faults. They simply donrmt advertise this motorcycle enough.
I watch motorcycle racing from around the world and the US and see alit of advertising for many makes of bikes.
Where are the ads for the PA?
Nowhere to be found
@@paulwojnar2291 claro que sí, si quieres competir en el mercado de las trails tienes que invertir mucho más en publicidad, por supuesto.
Para mí es una pena, es una gran moto.
Love your humorous take on the PanAmerica CVO , couldn't agree more .
I can’t see myself on a PA or any ADV…. I just don’t like them. I rode one and it’s okay but not my cup of tea….they seem top heavy and I don’t like the seat height…
Pan America: "We're #1 because we can lower our ride height"
Tiger 1200: "neat trick"
Tiger 1200 - *updates software to do the same thing with pre-existing hardware*
Pan America: 😧
I like how we are referred to as "GS guys". Lol. Bro, I've got a Harley in the garage too. To answer the question, no I wouldn't trade my GSA for a PA.
Straight up. I think the Pan America is a great machine but at that price.... Uh no.
People buy Cadillac SUVs, so there will be someone who buys a PanAmerica CVO, but you are correct not many of them…
Harley has done a very good job of defining their brand and motorcycles for many decades. Unfortunately it seems that they are failing to attract new buyers while their long standing customers are aging out. Harley knows they need to do something different to survive. When I was looking at the various options in the market I chose a pan am because of the heritage that Harley has built while wanting a more modern bike. That isn't to say that road kings, softails etc. aren't awesome ( because they are) it's because it fits what I was looking for in a bike. A big factor in all this is that traditional Harley owners see the pan am as a threat to what HD stands for therefore they scoff at it rather than supporting a company trying to do something different. There are many examples of legacy companies that fail to adapt and change and ultimately go out of business. Sometimes change is a good thing and I think the pan am is a good step forward for Harley to be relevant in the future. I hope HD keeps all their products offerings and sprinkles in new ones that provide more options to different types of consumers.
Hope the PanAm is not the 2.0 version of the V-Rod! I am thinking hard about buying one. I am a different rider, I like the back dirt roads. That is why I ride a bare-bones Fatboy, like that wide front tire in the dirt! Non of my buddies will ride in the dirt willingly!
I take delivery of the Pan America CVO later today. This will be my second. I have also dropped my Pan America several times. It takes a drop. Your buddy is wrong. I have video of it all. Go look.
I think the pan America is a great bike and it’s gotten better/more electronically reliable in the 3 years it’s been out. CVO is definitely going to appeal to some people (clearly). I just think it’s a misplaced luxury when part of its function is to go off road.
@@UncleBogator Most of my heavy duty off road is done on my Ducati Desert X. This bike will be a travel/trail bike. Longer excursions. It’s like the G Wagon of motorcycles. My buddy trains ADV riders on his Pan Am.
@@ThePoisonDrummer I’d have one myself if I had room for it. I know you have several bikes in the stable.
My point wasn’t to bash the bike although I know some people will take it that way. It’s good that HD is looking at different things. Just that from my experience they just sit on the showroom floor when the primary audience for HD is on the “glides.” Pan America stands tall on its own. Just gets overlooked by most HD patrons.
Zeitz is so far out of touch. That guy has gotta go.
It’s not hard to figure out. People who buys Harleys are not looking for that style of bike.
Normies would be interested if it wasn't for H/D people hanging around their stores...stick them in a dedicated ADV part of the store away from the 'beards',attract a different customer, one who,longterm is important to the survival of the company...us people hate the H/D culture they developed since the 1980's, accountants to Hells Angels,not people you want to hang with!
@williamrae9954
You are so right.
Back in 2006 I was touring Florida on my Buell Ulysses and stopped in at Lakeland HD.
They had all Buells lined up outside in front of the dealership.
I asked the lead salesman who looked the part of a traditional Harley biker why the Buells were in the fore front.
He replied Because Ive got to sell them.
The Harleys sell themselves.
Note by that time most dealers were hiding Buells in dark corners of their showrooms. I really loved Buells and owned nithing but Buells for quite some time.
I really love my 2022 Pan Am and would hate to see it go the way Buells did.
Wake up HD
I'm a Honda guy first 2 bikes were new. an '73 SL125 $500 and '76 MR 250 $700. Ever since the first Goldwing came out I aways wanted one. I bought a 08 $6,000 used Goldwing (like new) because I wanted a bike that could hold my camera equipment and a Friend in comfort, as we ride back roads looking for pictures. I wanted the motorcycle so anytime I saw a picture I could pull off the road (it takes less room than a car). The Goldwing is NOT an off-road machine. Not even a shoulder of the road bike. The Pan American seems like the Perfect bike for storage and passenger and dual sport. I don't care for the price tag. A used KLR is less than $10,00 it is NOT the same but will do what I want.
Pan America is so heavy compared to a KLR. Great bike though
They could have at least tossed a tuner pipe big bore and custom bags on the sob
What is your opinion on the Sportster S?
i don't like sport bikes of any brand. I'm not comfortable in the least. but some people love them.
@@UncleBogatorCity riding only!
In my humble opinion, a Spot on assessment of the Pan Am.
I haven't seen a CVO mistake. A luxury "adventure" bike ,that 99% never take off pavement, def has a market. I've ridden the Pan Am for a few hundred miles and love the bike.
I think Harley needs more guys like you in the boardroom that understands its customers and what they want in a motorcycle !!
Cheers man
Amen Mike!!!
✨️ Wiping cheeto dust off my fingers✨️
I agree. Love my Pan Am, but CVO isn't the right direction for the Pan Am. It will sell at the right price since it already comes with common accessories, but its not right for the market.
You totally get it.
BMW has at least 2 CVOish GS models; the triple black and the 719 so good on Harley for offering an alternative. Many many people never take their GS’s off-road and use them as tourers, as do I with my Pan Am
Harley Davidson if they want to survive must get some bikers back in the board of directors and the design department.
I've still never seen one in stock. I've still never been able to test ride one before. I don't like that it only has 150 hp.
Oh yeah, I hate all Harley's except for the Pan America. The Harley Davidson might be the only Harley I would ever buy.
But I think I like the KTM Superduke GT or the Ducati Multistrada Pike's Peak power and turning ability. I don't want to part with the most powerful sport touring bikes in the world.
I don't think I would like the longer wheelbase and larger front tire.
I just ride what's under me!
I've been riding Harleys for 20 years and I agree the Harley-Davidson is completely out of touch. There's very little that Harley has made after 2017 that I would buy and nothing after 2022. The Moco has successfully eliminated me as a customer.
This countdown gives me anxiety
Ouch
@@UncleBogator I keep expecting the stuff to hit each other
You obviously know what you’re talking about but I feel Harley did well w this bike..it has its issues of course but All bikes do…you mentioned Ktm and it is known for reliability issues and they’ve been around forever…folks still buy em..I may be getting a ‘24 pas..I dig it. Thanks for the info here…
They’re great bikes. Just feels misplaced to me
@@UncleBogator they are misplaced..that’s a good thing. It’s just another option for different riders..I had a 48, then a lowrider s…maybe pas next..ride safe out there 🤙🏽
lol true that brother. Well said once again!!!
It's no different than the vrod and Buell Harley salesman want to sell 50,000 road glides that cruise up down city roads and most never tour on them. I have owned every Harley has made I loved the vrod and really love my pan America have rode it more than other Harley i have owned its to bad old bikers can't except a awesome motorcycle they more concern on how it sounds
Pan America is a really fun bike. Glad you enjoy yours.
I put an aftermarket slip on exhaust on mine and it sounds nasty now.
Pan Am CVO isn’t a traditional CVO. No extra performance… but it it a great bargain. If you add up the costs of all the accessories that are standard it’s cheaper than buying a Special plus the Accessories… I’ve spoken to a lot of people ”traditional” H-D owners at my dealership- I’m a high-ish profile Pan Am owner and there’s a lot of interest… its not a cheap bike tho…
Oh for sure there's a lot of interest. I'm interested in it. Just not enough to buy one. May have even mentioned in the video (been a while now) that people always were curious about it when I worked in sales. Just wouldn't pull the trigger.
I think they are cool, but over priced. Realizing it's almost always going to be a 2nd or 3rd bike, especially to a regular HD customer it's gotta cost less
The reason I don’t buy one is that I can only afford one Harley. I bought a 22 road glide and I would love to have a pan america but it is just not possible financially. I think they are amazing but I just can’t do it. Sigh.
that's one of the main points my man. you're not alone. Many of us love them and would have one... as another bike.
Part of the problem is to get new customers Harley needs to get beginner bikes to give them a way in that's not 15000 dollars or more
an under $10k bike at 350-750 cc would be killer. THey tried it with the Street Rods but they were hideous even when they were new.
They need to slap that motor in a cruiser and a baggar
Wonder how it would do with that weight
Agreed, big dumb company move on their part