I really don’t want to support the trend of everything costs over $100 today. I don’t need deluxification, I just need great games. Keep your minis and neoprene mats and unasked for expansions. Just give me a great game for less than $100 and I’m in.
@@user-ez5vq9fd2t When you grow up and start pulling in some real money, then quality tabletop games are a no brainer. Although I understand that seems crazy when coming from a world where you get a few bucks a week from your parents. If adults want to pay good monyfor games, there's no point in criticising them. Helps move the industry forward too. Variety.
Yeah, I just don't get it. I'm guessing they get some royalties off this, but maybe they licensed it for a lump sum? They are definitely shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to potential future deluxe versions. Who would want to collaborate with them knowing that for FCM they put the original on preorder for less than half the price during the kickstarter campaign for the deluxe game?!
@@nurseruben5431 I suspect this is largely it. I feel like they have always felt that their games were so good, they don't need to look pretty. And, while not wanting to turn down the money from this partnership, if it does too well, that kind of flies in the face of that. I think if they can sell out the next pre-order, while the deluxe version underperforms expectations, it will show that they were always right, that being pretty isn't needed.
@@RaduStanculescu to be fair the pre-order was up for months before the deluxe edition even got announced. The price drop though is kind of shocking and probably won't sit well with future deluxe publishers.
As a follow up there is now a Deluxe all in one option in the campaign without the minis at a lower price point. This might suit those who haven't bought the game before but don't want to go super crazy.
my 200€ copy of castles of burgundy already has more plays than a deluce 300-400€ copy of FCM would ever get. easy pass. at around 200€ i would have been interested.
the price is bananas. I've purchased a LOT of expensive big box miniatures games. I'm waiting on the gloomhaven/frosthaven reprint WITH the extra six HUNDRED minis.... I want my partner to be into games so if she sees something that grabs her interest, I'm buying it. I assumed there would be a lot of stuff with this... and for the price... there just isn't.
Almost 3200 people say "This is great!" and that is what crowdfunding is for. I think the primary reason that people are mad is because THEY are being denied something they want. The barrier is the justification of cost and honestly: this hobby was SEVERELY lacking in that. People dumping hundreds upon thousands of dollars every year to have games sit on the shelf and then sell and buy some more(i'm guilty of this). I believe the collective hobby cannot do that anymore and so you have the call for certain price points and "acrylic standees" instead of minis to help keep that train of spending going. It's a good time to reflect on your own situation and really BUY the games you want and stop just trying to buy every 'experience' that flashes a little plastic or metal coins at you. That delivery high only lasts a short time. :D
Yet another great video Alex! I really like these recent videos that you have been posting that are extremely thoughtful and about the board game business in general. I especially liked the one you posted on "5 Ethical Dilemmas For You To Consider - Board Game Related Of Course". Keep up with the good work.
At that price point (deluxe version), I require a solid solo mode. Without one, I just can't justify it. For a regular version it is probably still too pricey in regards to the amount of competitive plays I can realistically expect.
I agree! I mostly solo because no one has time to game as often I would like to. I also like to learn the game on my own through solo runs before attempting to teach and play with others.
One of the best examples of cost and value. I swear people think writing 50 to 100k words of lore and balancing the story to those rules costs zero dollars. Unless people see a shit ton of components no one cares. Show us more stuff.. I think we all decide whats worth premium money at first sight. That goes for outside of the hobby too. If we cant hold it, makes it hard to determine worth for someone whos not played it before.
@adukovski so basically...the basically part of this is a game that's already a premium price product. On top of it being premium priced in its current form they put plastic on top which comes with a cost. Does it all add up for me..nope but I can find all kinds of stuff in my life that means nothing to you that I would pay hundreds or thousands for.
you dont have to tank vote it on BGG, you dont have to spam the comments, simply vote no with your wallet if you dont want it. itll matter more than anything you say. im the target audience. not getting it. too much for me personally. not seeing that kind of value in it. i wanted Perseverance, didnt get it either. ill wait 2 years and buy it then. these are choices we make. theyll pay more attention to the numbers than the comments section.
Thematic immersion is a great point, Alex. I love Castles of Burgundy and am glad to have the deluxe version with the minis but it doesn’t provide quite the same increase in satisfaction as, say, the miniature version of The Great Wall vs the meeple version and who could imagine playing KDM with meeples or tokens vs miniatures?!
Another thing that I look at is "dual purpose." Not only am I a gamer, but I'm also a miniature painter/collector. A game system like Zombicide is going to be much more appealing to me, and I can much better justify the cost, because in my mind I'm getting basically a 2-for-1 deal: A good game to play, and a large collection of miniatures to paint. (Whether or not I ever actually will get around to painting them is something I don't want to talk about right now... :P ) Food Chain Magnate is only ever going to be a game. The 3D components are cool, but I don't see miniature people like myself getting excited about it or finding it collectible. And that ties into your point about whether or not the upgrades are actually going to improve the experience. Or rather, are they going to improve the experience ENOUGH. When I backed The Fox Experiment, the price difference between the retail version and the Kickstarter exclusive version was negligible, and the main thing the exclusive edition added was upgraded components from cardboard to metal and plastic. Will it change the game? Nope. But the improved tactile experience and durability of the pieces fully justified the small added cost of going for the upgrade. In short, it didn't feel like I was being taken advantage of to get an exclusive and upgraded version of the game.
Easy answer for me! Food Chain Magnate is sadly worth $0 to me because of (still!) no official solo mode. Now if they gave me an official solo mode, I would be tempted. :P
nope. even the gorgeous luxurious castles of burgundy doesnt cost this much. utterly ridiculous for what it is. to be honest, it's not even much of an improvement over the original, art wise. it still looks plain and bland.
I'm quite surprised the FCM campaign is doing so well; looks like it will easily break $1,000,000 USD upon conclusion. I think those who have classically been attracted to Splotter games are generally a more function over form crowd, but the success of this campaign and the CoB Special Edition perhaps indicates those old-school Euro lovers like me who wouldn't be caught dead mucking up our games with unnecessary, gawdy, board obscuring plastic toy pieces are a dying breed. Now, get off my lawn.
I’m about a year into the hobby and have a penchant for going head first into my passions. After fully backing Final Girl series 3, Dark Quarters, and most recently the Witcher I’m starting to see the insanity of constantly backing games on kickstarter and gamefound. The shiny beautiful games will never stop getting published so I’m going to TRY to limit myself to three backings a year. Ugh good points on the pre-orders costing half the price lol. Maybe I’ll try to limit to two 😂😂
This whole video is bizarre. The whole point of the video is to talk about why you don’t want to spend this much money for this specific game? Why? Your perceived value of the game that has nothing common with the type of games you mention, completely different genres, completely different types of gameplay, limited print vs not, a lot of these things have nothing in common. Your whole video just seems biased against Food Chain magnate specifically. You can get current version for $80 plus expansion at least $60, that’s 140$ for Current version. Instead you can pay 190$ for deluxe especially edition get all new pieces and improved box and limited print run. So you are complaining over extra $50 being an unreasonable value ?)) when you ok with spending 300$ for games that you can buy anywhere any time ? I’m confused.
The biggest let down for me was that they are offering unpainted minis. It doesn't feel true deluxe considering that the minis hurt reading the board state and most people will need to paint at least the numbers in the minis to improve the readability. The campaign got me interested in the game, but I will probably just preorder the original game from splotter and buy a few quality of life upgrades. Box size is also very important for me these days and the original game with expansion is the same box size as only the base game of the deluxe edition.
I have never played the game, but I have seen and heard so much about it that I did back it at first. I canceled not really cause of the price in and of itself, but because of the value. The game funded so clearly there is a desire. I think Lucky Duck can charge what they want, and really in this case looks like the amount is reasonable given the reality. I just know I will play Dceased more and even if I didn’t I could use the minis elsewhere. It is just a sad reality of economics. I am not mad at the price. And the FOMO isn’t enough for a game that while great, I have never played.
alex has played castled of burgundy 50 times in the last year (which i find mind boggling in itself). so for some people it wont be a 20th of the game content.
For me it’s an easy choice. I pay for the gameplay, not the plastic. IMO FCM is a fantastic game. Zombicide is not, and honesty has turned into an IP cash grab. I’ll pay $300+ for a great game, regardless of components. Just because CMON shoves minis down our throats, that doesn’t negate the subpar gameplay. Pay for the gameplay, not the components. Saying “$300 gets you more content.” Is a moot point. You’re getting more plastic for the same price, but you’re also getting a worse game. My two cents that no one asked for
I think it’s worth it… if you don’t already own it. I just can’t justify buying it again when I’ve already spent upwards of $200 for the game, expansion and insert. Also I increasingly value space so I’m happy keeping these smaller boxes.
Thank you for the video🤙 So there is two separate companies involved in this right? Kinda makes sense why it would be more expensive than usual if thats the case. Yeah it sucks but its also alot of work involved and they deserve to profit off of it. Also shipping seems to be getting scarier and less certain for the foreseeable future so perhaps they are marking it up a bit as a safety net. Idk 🤷♂️ i personally am very glad i backed castles and am now contemplating this deluxe version. Ill take shiny food tokens over zombies😁
Perception of value is a valid thing for campaigns to consider, but for myself I don't think it makes sense to make purchasing decisions based on pure perception when you know that perception does not match up with the actual value the game is providing to you. Frequency of play is the primary reason I don't find it valuable for me to bling out a bunch of these games.
As always, a fantastic talk about an important topic. Thank you! I went all in on Darwin and I still think that one was worth it to me. I have the nice, compact deluxe version of Unconscious Minds coming as well but since that, nothing looks worth the large price anymore. Even Elizabeth Hargrave’s Undergrove deluxe doesn’t tempt me. I am definitely backing the basic version, though. Sorry if that all sounds more “name dropping” than comparing. And speaking of Castles of Burgundy, am I alone in wishing there was some kind of “deluxe gameplay” version? One that has the acrylic tiles, the nice boards, metal coins, but no minis?
Who played FCM even once knows that these deluxe goodies break the game in terms of clarity and board oversight. People are being tricked into spending money on a broken product
I request a new video. It sounds like there were enough people that agreed with your sentiment that they added a way more reasonable pledge. Curious what your thoughts are
I'm sure I am the 1000th person to say this but I would have preferred some in between hybrid of deluxe version but with the original art & style. Paying a bit more than the regular version that's usually available.
i cant justify $400 for a euro which is paper and house minis. that's over three days of 8 hours work for a euro game. which you will play three times at most (be honest and take an average of how many time's you've played the same euro).
To be fair, I play Euros many, many more times than I play any Ameritrash, dice-chucking, random-fests, but gamers like me tend to fall into the function over form crowd. That is, we care a whole lot more about how a game plays than what it looks like. That said, I'm OK with occasionally spending slightly more to spruce up the components for some of my favorite games, but there's zero chance I'm going to spend 3 or 4 times the price of a game just to have more plastic pieces in the box.
he hasn't had any in over a year. Alex didn't like some aspects of how Quackalope worked; the whole controversy with Aeon Trespass: Odyssey and Quack seems to validate those concerns.
The most money I've spent on a Euro was the $130 deluxe edition of Rococo. It was a beautiful production with high quality components, and a great solo mode along with all of the previous expansion's. It's also become one of my favorite games. But even that $130 two years ago was something I almost didn't do given the price point. Money is more tight now too, so I'm less willing to spend for something that pricey nowadays. I looked at the campaign for Food Chain because I've seen a number of positive reviews, but immediately laughed and closed the tab when I saw the price point.
The strangest part of the conversation around this campaign is that people keep saying its a €300 game. It's not, €300 gets you the base game and the expansion. They're literally in two separate boxes. So in reality it's about $160 each. The base base game costs around $100, this version is clearly worth $60 more than the old version. You can argue that the base game is overpriced, sure. But if you're in the market for FCM and the expansion, this isn't that bad of a deal for a one off deluxe edition.
" this version is clearly worth $60 more than the old version" But it's not. The minis make the game worse. It's not worth 60$ for a less clear game that hogs more table space.
@@fy8798 Minis aside, there's plenty of value and QOL improvements in the storage system, trays, card management, upgraded cards, money, components, and dual and triple layer boards.
They may be 2 separate boxes but it’s still 1 game when the expansion is hidden behind a single print one no one is just buying the base bc they will never have access to the expansion thereafter that’s not horrendously priced on second hand market. Ergo it’s a 300€ game
@@mihalypentek180 That's totally fair, but then it should be compared to the current cost of the base game and the expansion total. In the US the deluxe edition not substantially more expensive. Other countries might be paying more for VAT and shipping though.
I must say that the initial hate on this deluxe editon online and in the comments on the Gamefound page towards Lucky Duck for simply making an optional, luxury and niche product that is expressly stated as being a one-time printing is nuts. As mentioned by other comments Castles of Burgundy did it BUT so did TSURO (to a crazy high extent) a few months ago. Too expensive? Don't buy it. Want a cheaper version? Buy the original. Is Lucky Duck forcing people to buy this? Of course not. Good on them for showing the total price right away rather than the add-on price creep of other campaigns. Sometimes you can't buy all the toys you want in the toy aisle, folks!
If you have a group that will play a game like FCM, then you will likely get far more value from it than something like Zombicide, when you figure out cost per play. And despite me agreeing that it's overpriced for me as well, a deluxe version WILL make it easier to table more often. But perceived value definitely reigns much higher than actual cost per play value. Kickstarter is pretty much predicated on people not thinking about the cost per play of games.
I definitely sit in the camp of “I would never spend $400 on a game”. In saying that, however, if I was going to back a game at that amount it would only be if I had already played that game before and I LOVED it. So if I loved Zombicide or FCM then I’d consider that price, maybe, for a deluxe game I love. One thing I would never do, and don’t understand why people do it, is backing hundreds of dollars for a game I have never played and don’t even know is good or bad. The value proposition for KS is almost always bad IMO. You pay an inflated price for all this extra content you will probably never touch. Sure the deluxe components are nice, but the retail versions are almost always more than adequate. You often don’t even get the game before it goes to retail. Some games don’t fulfil so there is a risk there. Then you factor in shipping and I don’t get why anyone backs kickstarters.
THEY CALL THAT PRICE GAUGING ON ANY LEVEL EVEN IF YOU BLINDLY BACK IT. JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WILLING TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY DOESN'T MEAN IT'S WORTH IT
The cost for Castles of Burgundy with 3d tiles is comparable to Food chain magnate. The difference is FCM does not give a choice for not having the minis where CoB did . If there was a "cheap" version of FCM with nice art on the tiles without minis, then people wouldn't gripe as much. For me the ability to get the game to the table matters. Heavy Euros are hard to table.
Hey Alex, good points, especially the last one. I see that you have a copy of Deliverance on your shelf. Do you have a review coming up on that one? After playing it 4 times in skirmish, a friend and I both concluded that we like it even more than Chtulhu Death May Die. I would be curious to hear you on it.
Are you planning to post a follow with your thoughts or care to leave them here as to the new Deluxe edition v the Special edition? PS: might want to update the description of this video now that there is an official difference between deluxe and special editions of the game.
I feel like the game thats worth it TO YOU is the game thats worth it TO YOU. Not you specifically Alex, the general you. I've got a couple of games that I've paid $300 or more for. Overall I've liked them. Even the one that comes to mind that I don't love the game play (Vindication Archive of the Ancients) I think the level of production in that box is worth the expense, but the game didn't resonate with me. I absolutely believe a game can be worth $300. But I don't love Food Chain Magnate so there is no version of it that I want to buy, but I especially don't want a $300 version. There is nothing wrong with a $300 version, its just not for me.
I have many of the same preferences in what I spend big money on. And one of the biggest issues being I have a large number of good heavy euros and they just don’t get played that often so it is hard to justify 300+
While I was thrown when i saw the price of this, i also went all-in on the most recent Foundations of Rome campaign, so I can actually see why they would feel comfortable setting the price that high, considering how much more depth there is to FCM
Cheaper than FCM in the comparable pledge, more content, a clear improvement in look compared to older versions (FCM doesn't look deluxe and also has usability issues), and will likely get played more often.
If the current game does the same thing, why bother to upgrade? I think they're relying heavily on FOMO here. I will definitely NOT be making the unnecessary leap!
For CoB the clear difference was the much improved look vs both older version. Plus acrylic hexes (and tiles if you want, and minis, though I think those detract from the gameplay). Plus all the boards that let several people play with the same board.
the most money I used so far are on unmatched and in marvel united so far I don't have any regrets the mini's are great! plus it's not too complicated to play ♥
Hm… though I don’t act like that as well… Shouldn‘t the best games deserve the highest invest in a collection? If you deluxify shouldn‘t you Start there?
The problem is that this version doesn't look deluxe at all. Some of the "deluxe" components seem downgrades in look AND usability. Yes, the best games deserve deluxe versions, but not just expensive versions.
The thing that gets me is that they started at too high a price point, tried to justify it by saying how small the print run was going to be, and by forcing it down to a smaller print run with no extra or retail sales, which would mean that the volume wouldn't be there to be able to produce it at a lower price. But if they had started at a lower price, and committed to selling extras afterward (I'm sure the deal with Splotter had some amount to say about this part), there would have been more volume to potentially reach the level necessary to justify the lower price point. So, they (both Lucky Duck and Splotter together) forced themselves into a price point that many people didn't want to pay, simply by forcing themselves into a price point that many people didn't want to pay. It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy.
I have no regrets on my Marvel Zombies expenditure because the game has already become one of the most played in my collection thanks to it being something my 7yo can play and enjoy with me. As much as I love a lot of other games I've spent a lot on, the same can't be said for them 😕
I maintain that for those that this game is their "big one", that this expensive version is fine. Wasn't too long ago I spent hundreds on my fancy Castles of Burgundy all-in. To each their own.
Game is expensive as it should be. I've backed a ton of kickstarters over the years and it's pretty common for people to complain about prices so nothing new going on here. I'm all for a great deal but there is something I like even more than a nice deal with crazy value and that is actually receiving it in my hands. Look at all those amazing kickstarter deals Mythic Games did. I got an absolute steal on that monsterpocalypse campaign. The value is so insane that I'm actually going to receive nothing but air...... In addition, cheaper prices means cutting corners. If you are going to make a deluxe game then do it right with all the right materials, bells and whistles. The price is correct, the market has determined it to be so and the market is always the one that is correct.
FCM Collectors Pledge is a drop kick in the face. It's at least $50 more expensive than anything else in its category (even TM Deluxe wasn't that expensive). Alo (and not talked about here) is the fact that Lucky Duck has a backlog of 5-6 games they haven't fulfilled yet. No thank you.
Lucky Duck Games are usually good deals but compared to FCM Deluxe, CMON campaigns are still better deals - especially when it comes to the amount of modular content, ease of play, and how much more often the games can be played. FCM can feel real bad when one player is basically out of the running early on and the player is stuck losing for the next 2 - 4 hours.
I really don’t want to support the trend of everything costs over $100 today. I don’t need deluxification, I just need great games. Keep your minis and neoprene mats and unasked for expansions. Just give me a great game for less than $100 and I’m in.
Blame the whales that are the small minority that spend big bucks on deluxe products
So much petty jealousy 😂
UA-cam comments are adorable
@@user-ez5vq9fd2t When you grow up and start pulling in some real money, then quality tabletop games are a no brainer. Although I understand that seems crazy when coming from a world where you get a few bucks a week from your parents.
If adults want to pay good monyfor games, there's no point in criticising them. Helps move the industry forward too. Variety.
You don’t “need” great games.
Man, Splotter is really kneecapping Lucky Duck Games.
Splotter's got an ego, unfortunately
Yeah, I just don't get it. I'm guessing they get some royalties off this, but maybe they licensed it for a lump sum? They are definitely shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to potential future deluxe versions. Who would want to collaborate with them knowing that for FCM they put the original on preorder for less than half the price during the kickstarter campaign for the deluxe game?!
@@nurseruben5431 I suspect this is largely it. I feel like they have always felt that their games were so good, they don't need to look pretty. And, while not wanting to turn down the money from this partnership, if it does too well, that kind of flies in the face of that. I think if they can sell out the next pre-order, while the deluxe version underperforms expectations, it will show that they were always right, that being pretty isn't needed.
@@RaduStanculescu to be fair the pre-order was up for months before the deluxe edition even got announced.
The price drop though is kind of shocking and probably won't sit well with future deluxe publishers.
As a follow up there is now a Deluxe all in one option in the campaign without the minis at a lower price point. This might suit those who haven't bought the game before but don't want to go super crazy.
my 200€ copy of castles of burgundy already has more plays than a deluce 300-400€ copy of FCM would ever get. easy pass. at around 200€ i would have been interested.
They've made a cheaper version that has wooden tokens instead of 3d minis
the price is bananas. I've purchased a LOT of expensive big box miniatures games. I'm waiting on the gloomhaven/frosthaven reprint WITH the extra six HUNDRED minis.... I want my partner to be into games so if she sees something that grabs her interest, I'm buying it. I assumed there would be a lot of stuff with this... and for the price... there just isn't.
Almost 3200 people say "This is great!" and that is what crowdfunding is for. I think the primary reason that people are mad is because THEY are being denied something they want. The barrier is the justification of cost and honestly: this hobby was SEVERELY lacking in that. People dumping hundreds upon thousands of dollars every year to have games sit on the shelf and then sell and buy some more(i'm guilty of this). I believe the collective hobby cannot do that anymore and so you have the call for certain price points and "acrylic standees" instead of minis to help keep that train of spending going. It's a good time to reflect on your own situation and really BUY the games you want and stop just trying to buy every 'experience' that flashes a little plastic or metal coins at you. That delivery high only lasts a short time. :D
Yet another great video Alex! I really like these recent videos that you have been posting that are extremely thoughtful and about the board game business in general. I especially liked the one you posted on "5 Ethical Dilemmas For You To Consider - Board Game Related Of Course". Keep up with the good work.
Castles of Burgundy 20th anniversary VS Special edition is a good argument to have as well.
At that price point (deluxe version), I require a solid solo mode. Without one, I just can't justify it. For a regular version it is probably still too pricey in regards to the amount of competitive plays I can realistically expect.
So true
I agree! I mostly solo because no one has time to game as often I would like to. I also like to learn the game on my own through solo runs before attempting to teach and play with others.
One of the best examples of cost and value. I swear people think writing 50 to 100k words of lore and balancing the story to those rules costs zero dollars. Unless people see a shit ton of components no one cares. Show us more stuff..
I think we all decide whats worth premium money at first sight. That goes for outside of the hobby too. If we cant hold it, makes it hard to determine worth for someone whos not played it before.
For a game that is basically a reprint, except for the art and the miniatures nothing is changed, this Lucky Duck cash grab is out of this World.
@adukovski so basically...the basically part of this is a game that's already a premium price product. On top of it being premium priced in its current form they put plastic on top which comes with a cost. Does it all add up for me..nope but I can find all kinds of stuff in my life that means nothing to you that I would pay hundreds or thousands for.
you dont have to tank vote it on BGG, you dont have to spam the comments, simply vote no with your wallet if you dont want it. itll matter more than anything you say.
im the target audience. not getting it. too much for me personally. not seeing that kind of value in it. i wanted Perseverance, didnt get it either. ill wait 2 years and buy it then. these are choices we make. theyll pay more attention to the numbers than the comments section.
Nemesis prices makes food chain look pathetic
Agreed. Being able to get three Nemesis games plus minis for a comparable price is just ridiculous.
Thematic immersion is a great point, Alex. I love Castles of Burgundy and am glad to have the deluxe version with the minis but it doesn’t provide quite the same increase in satisfaction as, say, the miniature version of The Great Wall vs the meeple version and who could imagine playing KDM with meeples or tokens vs miniatures?!
Another thing that I look at is "dual purpose." Not only am I a gamer, but I'm also a miniature painter/collector. A game system like Zombicide is going to be much more appealing to me, and I can much better justify the cost, because in my mind I'm getting basically a 2-for-1 deal: A good game to play, and a large collection of miniatures to paint. (Whether or not I ever actually will get around to painting them is something I don't want to talk about right now... :P )
Food Chain Magnate is only ever going to be a game. The 3D components are cool, but I don't see miniature people like myself getting excited about it or finding it collectible.
And that ties into your point about whether or not the upgrades are actually going to improve the experience. Or rather, are they going to improve the experience ENOUGH. When I backed The Fox Experiment, the price difference between the retail version and the Kickstarter exclusive version was negligible, and the main thing the exclusive edition added was upgraded components from cardboard to metal and plastic. Will it change the game? Nope. But the improved tactile experience and durability of the pieces fully justified the small added cost of going for the upgrade.
In short, it didn't feel like I was being taken advantage of to get an exclusive and upgraded version of the game.
Easy answer for me! Food Chain Magnate is sadly worth $0 to me because of (still!) no official solo mode.
Now if they gave me an official solo mode, I would be tempted. :P
nope. even the gorgeous luxurious castles of burgundy doesnt cost this much. utterly ridiculous for what it is. to be honest, it's not even much of an improvement over the original, art wise. it still looks plain and bland.
that's the problem, isn't it? it's not really a deluxe version, it's just an expensive version.
I'm quite surprised the FCM campaign is doing so well; looks like it will easily break $1,000,000 USD upon conclusion. I think those who have classically been attracted to Splotter games are generally a more function over form crowd, but the success of this campaign and the CoB Special Edition perhaps indicates those old-school Euro lovers like me who wouldn't be caught dead mucking up our games with unnecessary, gawdy, board obscuring plastic toy pieces are a dying breed. Now, get off my lawn.
100%
I’m about a year into the hobby and have a penchant for going head first into my passions. After fully backing Final Girl series 3, Dark Quarters, and most recently the Witcher I’m starting to see the insanity of constantly backing games on kickstarter and gamefound.
The shiny beautiful games will never stop getting published so I’m going to TRY to limit myself to three backings a year.
Ugh good points on the pre-orders costing half the price lol. Maybe I’ll try to limit to two 😂😂
This whole video is bizarre. The whole point of the video is to talk about why you don’t want to spend this much money for this specific game? Why? Your perceived value of the game that has nothing common with the type of games you mention, completely different genres, completely different types of gameplay, limited print vs not, a lot of these things have nothing in common. Your whole video just seems biased against Food Chain magnate specifically. You can get current version for $80 plus expansion at least $60, that’s 140$ for Current version. Instead you can pay 190$ for deluxe especially edition get all new pieces and improved box and limited print run. So you are complaining over extra $50 being an unreasonable value ?)) when you ok with spending 300$ for games that you can buy anywhere any time ? I’m confused.
The biggest let down for me was that they are offering unpainted minis. It doesn't feel true deluxe considering that the minis hurt reading the board state and most people will need to paint at least the numbers in the minis to improve the readability. The campaign got me interested in the game, but I will probably just preorder the original game from splotter and buy a few quality of life upgrades. Box size is also very important for me these days and the original game with expansion is the same box size as only the base game of the deluxe edition.
The board game is marketed similarly to what you do in the game itself.
I wonder how conscious that is XD
Lol fair
I have never played the game, but I have seen and heard so much about it that I did back it at first. I canceled not really cause of the price in and of itself, but because of the value.
The game funded so clearly there is a desire. I think Lucky Duck can charge what they want, and really in this case looks like the amount is reasonable given the reality.
I just know I will play Dceased more and even if I didn’t I could use the minis elsewhere. It is just a sad reality of economics. I am not mad at the price. And the FOMO isn’t enough for a game that while great, I have never played.
almost twice the price of frosthaven and a 20th of the actual game content and longevity.
alex has played castled of burgundy 50 times in the last year (which i find mind boggling in itself). so for some people it wont be a 20th of the game content.
An overrated game with player eliminations and ridiculous price: that's a hard pass for me.
For me it’s an easy choice.
I pay for the gameplay, not the plastic. IMO FCM is a fantastic game. Zombicide is not, and honesty has turned into an IP cash grab.
I’ll pay $300+ for a great game, regardless of components. Just because CMON shoves minis down our throats, that doesn’t negate the subpar gameplay.
Pay for the gameplay, not the components. Saying “$300 gets you more content.” Is a moot point. You’re getting more plastic for the same price, but you’re also getting a worse game.
My two cents that no one asked for
Ok Alex convince me I need this xD
I think it’s worth it… if you don’t already own it. I just can’t justify buying it again when I’ve already spent upwards of $200 for the game, expansion and insert.
Also I increasingly value space so I’m happy keeping these smaller boxes.
Thank you for the video🤙
So there is two separate companies involved in this right? Kinda makes sense why it would be more expensive than usual if thats the case. Yeah it sucks but its also alot of work involved and they deserve to profit off of it. Also shipping seems to be getting scarier and less certain for the foreseeable future so perhaps they are marking it up a bit as a safety net. Idk 🤷♂️ i personally am very glad i backed castles and am now contemplating this deluxe version. Ill take shiny food tokens over zombies😁
Perception of value is a valid thing for campaigns to consider, but for myself I don't think it makes sense to make purchasing decisions based on pure perception when you know that perception does not match up with the actual value the game is providing to you.
Frequency of play is the primary reason I don't find it valuable for me to bling out a bunch of these games.
Always love to see your opinion on these campaigns, well guess I will not back this for now
As always, a fantastic talk about an important topic. Thank you! I went all in on Darwin and I still think that one was worth it to me. I have the nice, compact deluxe version of Unconscious Minds coming as well but since that, nothing looks worth the large price anymore. Even Elizabeth Hargrave’s Undergrove deluxe doesn’t tempt me. I am definitely backing the basic version, though. Sorry if that all sounds more “name dropping” than comparing.
And speaking of Castles of Burgundy, am I alone in wishing there was some kind of “deluxe gameplay” version? One that has the acrylic tiles, the nice boards, metal coins, but no minis?
Actually i'm grateful for the price because it's so much easier to pass on.
Who played FCM even once knows that these deluxe goodies break the game in terms of clarity and board oversight.
People are being tricked into spending money on a broken product
My english is not so good. I would like if you speak a little bit faster. Maybe you can spit two or three words in the same time 😬
I request a new video. It sounds like there were enough people that agreed with your sentiment that they added a way more reasonable pledge. Curious what your thoughts are
Oh , and to answer the question of the title of the video...
NONE, PERIOD...
I was interested in the game and was following it pre-launch. As soon as I saw the price, I unfollowed it.
No way this is a good purchase. The industry has gone crazy with pricing and bloat.
I'm sure I am the 1000th person to say this but I would have preferred some in between hybrid of deluxe version but with the original art & style. Paying a bit more than the regular version that's usually available.
Definitely a common request
The Castles of Burgundy: Special Edition ;) ;)
I think the original Food Chain Magnate looks waaaaay better than the deluxe version.
I think parts are better in each
i cant justify $400 for a euro which is paper and house minis. that's over three days of 8 hours work for a euro game. which you will play three times at most (be honest and take an average of how many time's you've played the same euro).
I can as a possible investment, sell it a few years later for double. 😂😂 Terrible.
To be fair, I play Euros many, many more times than I play any Ameritrash, dice-chucking, random-fests, but gamers like me tend to fall into the function over form crowd. That is, we care a whole lot more about how a game plays than what it looks like. That said, I'm OK with occasionally spending slightly more to spruce up the components for some of my favorite games, but there's zero chance I'm going to spend 3 or 4 times the price of a game just to have more plastic pieces in the box.
no more co production with QUACKALOPE ... what happened ?
he hasn't had any in over a year. Alex didn't like some aspects of how Quackalope worked; the whole controversy with Aeon Trespass: Odyssey and Quack seems to validate those concerns.
The most money I've spent on a Euro was the $130 deluxe edition of Rococo. It was a beautiful production with high quality components, and a great solo mode along with all of the previous expansion's. It's also become one of my favorite games. But even that $130 two years ago was something I almost didn't do given the price point. Money is more tight now too, so I'm less willing to spend for something that pricey nowadays. I looked at the campaign for Food Chain because I've seen a number of positive reviews, but immediately laughed and closed the tab when I saw the price point.
My copy of Rococo is on the way! I also immediately laughed and walked away when I say the price point for FCM.
@@JenCamPlaysBoardGames I hope you enjoy it! I was very surprised by how much fun I had with a fancy French dress making euro!
I can't wait! @@morgaknightgames
The strangest part of the conversation around this campaign is that people keep saying its a €300 game.
It's not, €300 gets you the base game and the expansion.
They're literally in two separate boxes. So in reality it's about $160 each. The base base game costs around $100, this version is clearly worth $60 more than the old version.
You can argue that the base game is overpriced, sure. But if you're in the market for FCM and the expansion, this isn't that bad of a deal for a one off deluxe edition.
" this version is clearly worth $60 more than the old version"
But it's not. The minis make the game worse. It's not worth 60$ for a less clear game that hogs more table space.
@@fy8798 Minis aside, there's plenty of value and QOL improvements in the storage system, trays, card management, upgraded cards, money, components, and dual and triple layer boards.
They may be 2 separate boxes but it’s still 1 game when the expansion is hidden behind a single print one no one is just buying the base bc they will never have access to the expansion thereafter that’s not horrendously priced on second hand market. Ergo it’s a 300€ game
@@mihalypentek180 That's totally fair, but then it should be compared to the current cost of the base game and the expansion total. In the US the deluxe edition not substantially more expensive.
Other countries might be paying more for VAT and shipping though.
I must say that the initial hate on this deluxe editon online and in the comments on the Gamefound page towards Lucky Duck for simply making an optional, luxury and niche product that is expressly stated as being a one-time printing is nuts. As mentioned by other comments Castles of Burgundy did it BUT so did TSURO (to a crazy high extent) a few months ago. Too expensive? Don't buy it. Want a cheaper version? Buy the original. Is Lucky Duck forcing people to buy this? Of course not. Good on them for showing the total price right away rather than the add-on price creep of other campaigns. Sometimes you can't buy all the toys you want in the toy aisle, folks!
If you have a group that will play a game like FCM, then you will likely get far more value from it than something like Zombicide, when you figure out cost per play. And despite me agreeing that it's overpriced for me as well, a deluxe version WILL make it easier to table more often. But perceived value definitely reigns much higher than actual cost per play value. Kickstarter is pretty much predicated on people not thinking about the cost per play of games.
I definitely sit in the camp of “I would never spend $400 on a game”.
In saying that, however, if I was going to back a game at that amount it would only be if I had already played that game before and I LOVED it. So if I loved Zombicide or FCM then I’d consider that price, maybe, for a deluxe game I love.
One thing I would never do, and don’t understand why people do it, is backing hundreds of dollars for a game I have never played and don’t even know is good or bad.
The value proposition for KS is almost always bad IMO. You pay an inflated price for all this extra content you will probably never touch. Sure the deluxe components are nice, but the retail versions are almost always more than adequate. You often don’t even get the game before it goes to retail. Some games don’t fulfil so there is a risk there. Then you factor in shipping and I don’t get why anyone backs kickstarters.
Oh no now I want to back both Kickstarters 🙈
Are we forgetting The Castles of Burgundy with an all in pledge close to over $400? Including shipping...
THEY CALL THAT PRICE GAUGING ON ANY LEVEL EVEN IF YOU BLINDLY BACK IT. JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WILLING TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY DOESN'T MEAN IT'S WORTH IT
The cost for Castles of Burgundy with 3d tiles is comparable to Food chain magnate. The difference is FCM does not give a choice for not having the minis where CoB did . If there was a "cheap" version of FCM with nice art on the tiles without minis, then people wouldn't gripe as much. For me the ability to get the game to the table matters. Heavy Euros are hard to table.
Hey Alex, good points, especially the last one. I see that you have a copy of Deliverance on your shelf. Do you have a review coming up on that one? After playing it 4 times in skirmish, a friend and I both concluded that we like it even more than Chtulhu Death May Die. I would be curious to hear you on it.
I love Splotter games. They take my money because their product is so great value.
Also PT Barnum said, there is a . born every minute
Are you planning to post a follow with your thoughts or care to leave them here as to the new Deluxe edition v the Special edition?
PS: might want to update the description of this video now that there is an official difference between deluxe and special editions of the game.
I feel like the game thats worth it TO YOU is the game thats worth it TO YOU. Not you specifically Alex, the general you.
I've got a couple of games that I've paid $300 or more for. Overall I've liked them. Even the one that comes to mind that I don't love the game play (Vindication Archive of the Ancients) I think the level of production in that box is worth the expense, but the game didn't resonate with me. I absolutely believe a game can be worth $300.
But I don't love Food Chain Magnate so there is no version of it that I want to buy, but I especially don't want a $300 version. There is nothing wrong with a $300 version, its just not for me.
They just posted an update about another pledge tier coming based on community feedback. A cheaper version coming after all, probably without minis.
I have many of the same preferences in what I spend big money on. And one of the biggest issues being I have a large number of good heavy euros and they just don’t get played that often so it is hard to justify 300+
While I was thrown when i saw the price of this, i also went all-in on the most recent Foundations of Rome campaign, so I can actually see why they would feel comfortable setting the price that high, considering how much more depth there is to FCM
There are plenty of great games with $150 all in pledges available, like Colonial 1700. I’ll pass lol
Thanks. I'm bidding on them on Ebay. The Splotter preorder says sold out
I dont see anyone complaining about a digital knive skin for 1k on CSGO?
why wasnt this a big deal when castle of burgundy was out vs food chain magnate.
Cheaper than FCM in the comparable pledge, more content, a clear improvement in look compared to older versions (FCM doesn't look deluxe and also has usability issues), and will likely get played more often.
@@RaduStanculescu i see..thanks for the r eply
If the current game does the same thing, why bother to upgrade? I think they're relying heavily on FOMO here. I will definitely NOT be making the unnecessary leap!
For CoB the clear difference was the much improved look vs both older version. Plus acrylic hexes (and tiles if you want, and minis, though I think those detract from the gameplay). Plus all the boards that let several people play with the same board.
the most money I used so far are on unmatched and in marvel united so far I don't have any regrets the mini's are great! plus it's not too complicated to play ♥
Hm… though I don’t act like that as well… Shouldn‘t the best games deserve the highest invest in a collection? If you deluxify shouldn‘t you Start there?
The problem is that this version doesn't look deluxe at all. Some of the "deluxe" components seem downgrades in look AND usability. Yes, the best games deserve deluxe versions, but not just expensive versions.
The thing that gets me is that they started at too high a price point, tried to justify it by saying how small the print run was going to be, and by forcing it down to a smaller print run with no extra or retail sales, which would mean that the volume wouldn't be there to be able to produce it at a lower price. But if they had started at a lower price, and committed to selling extras afterward (I'm sure the deal with Splotter had some amount to say about this part), there would have been more volume to potentially reach the level necessary to justify the lower price point. So, they (both Lucky Duck and Splotter together) forced themselves into a price point that many people didn't want to pay, simply by forcing themselves into a price point that many people didn't want to pay. It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy.
If they start cheap and don't get enough copies they die like mythic games. If they start high and don't get many copies they win win
I have no regrets on my Marvel Zombies expenditure because the game has already become one of the most played in my collection thanks to it being something my 7yo can play and enjoy with me. As much as I love a lot of other games I've spent a lot on, the same can't be said for them 😕
interesting conversation
I wonder, if Splotter’s games weren’t priced like Splotter’s games, would this still be priced the same?
Can you explain what the deal is with splottter? How are they selling the new game for such a low price? I thought lucky duck was publishing this.
$30 shipping makes splotters sale something of a moot point
I maintain that for those that this game is their "big one", that this expensive version is fine. Wasn't too long ago I spent hundreds on my fancy Castles of Burgundy all-in. To each their own.
I agree. If Pandemic got a deluxe version like this I’d consider spending a bit on it.
If they had added a solo or cooperative mode, I think it would've drawn a lot more backers (including myself).
Foundations of Rome is the only game I've seen that is worth it's insane price tag.
Game is expensive as it should be. I've backed a ton of kickstarters over the years and it's pretty common for people to complain about prices so nothing new going on here.
I'm all for a great deal but there is something I like even more than a nice deal with crazy value and that is actually receiving it in my hands. Look at all those amazing kickstarter deals Mythic Games did. I got an absolute steal on that monsterpocalypse campaign. The value is so insane that I'm actually going to receive nothing but air......
In addition, cheaper prices means cutting corners. If you are going to make a deluxe game then do it right with all the right materials, bells and whistles.
The price is correct, the market has determined it to be so and the market is always the one that is correct.
FCM Collectors Pledge is a drop kick in the face. It's at least $50 more expensive than anything else in its category (even TM Deluxe wasn't that expensive). Alo (and not talked about here) is the fact that Lucky Duck has a backlog of 5-6 games they haven't fulfilled yet. No thank you.
Alex, you are too smart to keep leaving out the shipping cost of cmon base pledge vs retail. C'mon man.
Lucky Duck Games are usually good deals but compared to FCM Deluxe, CMON campaigns are still better deals - especially when it comes to the amount of modular content, ease of play, and how much more often the games can be played. FCM can feel real bad when one player is basically out of the running early on and the player is stuck losing for the next 2 - 4 hours.