How Does the Arab World View the Roman Empire?
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- We journey into the Arabic media in search of portrayals of the Roman Empire. I also give some historical background on the events that are depicted in the shows and films.
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Footage:
The Message (1976)
• Video
The Imam (2017)
• Video
Faris Bany Marawan (2003)
• فارس بني مروان 01
Music
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Clemency of Titus
Andreas Waldetoft - Fate of Iberia Sountrack Track2
Andreas Waldetoft - Fate of Iberia Sountrack Track3
Andreas Waldetoft - Fate of Iberia Sountrack War Theme
Faris Bany Marawan Title Theme
Andreas Waldetoft - Saladin Besieges Jerusalem
Andreas Waldetoft - The Byzantine Empire
00:00 Intro
00:55 Heraclius
07:39 Nikephoros I
11:29 Leo III
18:00 Outro
The links to "The Message" (Eng. or Arabic with Eng. sub), "The Imam" (Eng. subs) and "Faris Bany Marawan" (sadly, no subs yet) are in the description
You forgot to link the Arabic version of The Message, sir.
DO look into the prophecies of the Quran and The Prophet Muhammad(sm), westerns have no idea the absurdly wild claims that came true and is to this day. The Quranic Prophecies made Nostredamus look like a Bricklayer layman.
Why is Roman Empire used in the title? This is in relation to the eastern Roman empire, not the Roman Empire. There were several Arabs that were emperors in the Roman Empire (caracala, severans, the deity invictus sol, etc etc)
@@rhetoric5173 100% byzantines aren't romans, the roman Arab Syrian emperors were elgabalus, alexander severus and philip the Arab
@ahmadbeik99 are you sure that you know what Roman meant?
Actually, the Patriarch of Alexandria's throne and staff being decorated with Ankhs in 'The Message' would be historically authentic.
The Ankh was obviously a symbol from Ancient Egyptian mythology. But it was later co-opted by the Coptic Christians because it coincidentally looks a lot like a cross. This stylized Ankh Cross became a very common local feature of Egyptian churches at the time and adorns many frescoes.
The depiction of this Egyptian is still anachronistic, as there were no pharaohs in late Roman Egypt. The face paint and the clothes are not Christian at all. The Patriarchs would be dressed similarly to the Cappadocian Church fathers.
Btw, Copt means Christian Egyptian. They are not different people.
@@Michael_the_Drunkard
I never implied a difference between Egyptians and Copts, so I don't know why you're making that observation.
Yeah. Mostly I see him as trying to be both Christian (robe and even Christian cross) and Egyptian (ankh and hairstyle)…like someone interpreting Coptic Christian literally.
@@Michael_the_Drunkard They never said it was a pharaoh. The word malik could be used for many things from kings to rulers in general.
@@Michael_the_Drunkard No, my friend, Copts are Egyptians, whether they are Muslims or Christians
Fun fact: one of the Roman emperors was Arab (Philip the Arab)
Fun fact: MULTIPLE Roman Emperors were Arab including Caracalla, Elagabalus and Nikephoros. Many more were of Amazigh and Phoenician descent.
@@poppinc8145 Very interesting. Even though the Roman Empire was established in Europe, many of its emperors were non-European.
@@reburn1479 1. The Roman Empire was a Mediterranean Empire that also incorporated Britain. It wasn't European in the modern sense. The Mediterranean societies were culturally close and interconnected to varying degrees. Northern and Northeast Europe was completely separate. Ancient Greeks borrowed heavily from Mesopotamia and Egypt to form their own society. The later Romans likewise took from the Greeks, Punic Phoenicians and Egypt to form their own. Alexander was an Iranophile and conquered much of West Asia and Egypt. His military successors formed dynasties in the region including Ptolemy Egypt.
Although pagan Romans and Greeks conveniently or selectively referred to North Africans, Semites and Iranians as barbarians, they consistently considered Germanic and Slavic peoples as barbarians and their physical features were often associated with slaves and prostitution, including blonde hair. Greeks also originally considered Romans barbarian and prior to the rise of Alexander, Athenian Greeks considered Macedonians barbarian. Between the Roman conquest and the Muslim conquest, Northwest Africa was culturally close to Southwest Europe. Early Christian scholarship and politics in Southern Europe was heavily intertwined with that of West Asia and North Africa. Although the Ancient Greeks hated the Medians and later Persians due to political rivalry, they actually considered the two descended from the same pantheon of deities and gave them mythological family trees, just as they did for the Greek states.
2. The word Europe comes from the name of a Phoenician princess in Greek mythology. Ancient Phoenicia is Lebanon, and the Phoenicians settled across the Mediterranean and were Semites.
@@poppinc8145Nikephoros was Arab... what will we hear next, Plato was Indian?
Wow didn't know that!!
I am not an Arab but here in Pakistan we depict the Eastern Romans at the Time of Islamic Conquests as the Cultured and Mighty Superpower of their Age against whom the Grit and Courage of the outnumbered and poorly equipped Arabian armies truly does shine.
The Sassanids are regarded as Mighty and more Brutal yet we also acknowledge the debt to Persian culture and learning that much of the Muslim world owes.
"Poorly equipped"
Whilst yes, their armor in the first few clashes was worse, once they started facing actually armies they had adequate equipment by then. The previous clashes shouldn't really qualify as major victories, as the army fighting only began after a duel between generals, in which time and time again the Arabs killed the commanders, and then the enemy force, without leadership crumbled. Once the really impressive battles like Yarmouk happened the bridge was closed.
Yeah cuz it makes the Arabs look more accomplished for defeating them
@@TheRatOnFire_ you probably don’t know about the battles preceding yarmouk
Muslim armies were rebel armies of total war
@@TheRatOnFire_ The Formidable strength of the Romans is clearly evident from their continued existence and later reconquests in the 300 years after the initial Islamic Expansion.
Equipment is more than just armor, logistically and economically the Eastern Romans still and always did outmatch the Rashidun Arabs in every metric.
The armies of Eastern Rome were no joke to simply crumple before foes, they were well known in their own time for their discipline even when clearly outnumbered and pinned down which often allowed them to often win against their foes.
If Arab generals were beating Roman generals in duels before the battles than they were facing the same risks of dying before battle as the Romans were except for the fact that they probably had better Backups to replace them unlike the Roman generals so the difficulties faced were the same for both.
@@jue3719 For poor desert herders and traders to unite and Conquer half of the most impressive empire of their time is an impressive accomplishment especially considering that the Romans and Persians did not just lie down but rather fought viciously to prevent their conquest.
Italian here so I obviously belong to the "Roman" side of the barricade .
While the history books up to high school ones rarely face the topic ( universitary ones obviously going very in depth but here are talking about "popular , common" knowledge ) the general vibe is one of mutual respect between both worlds . While during war time political games and the difference between religions and culture would play a major role...during peace times it was not uncommon for the two sides to interact with one another in a much more friendly manner than one'd normally think ; for example , Frederick II's teachers were arab and he used to be fluent in the language . Arab and "Roman" scholars would occasionally get to meet with one another to study and discuss about the most recent findings in regard to their disciplines such as medicine , philosophy , astronomy and so on . Fibonacci would start to implement the arabian's numeric system over the roman one , knights and merchants themselves would sometimes get to meet with their arab counterparts and end up feeling somewhat fascinated and curious towards the other one's culture , developing friendly relationships with one another , even ending up admiring some elements of their civilization ( for example , arabian medicine was considered to be better than european one for quite a long while during the middle ages ) .
It was a complicated and complex relationship for sure but not an entirely negative one as some people might think .
I can tell you and you probably already know that specially Italians are treated and admired beyond your expectations in the middle east for their kind hearts, when the pandemic hit Italy
I was and many throughout the middle east writing messages of encouragement, prayers, and traditional medicine, I think even Italians were. Shocked because this was not what they expected.
that sure by the way both of them was the greater civilizations in humanity history .
You might be interested to know that during the civil war in Benevento in southern Italy, the majority of soldiers on both sides were Arab mercenaries. In Sicily a civil war broke out among the Arabs in which alliances were regularly formed with Christians against other Arabs. Human interactions across cultures were complex even way back then.
That’s why Arabs love Italians 👏🏻 very good comment
Is it more lovely than the soviets and Amaricans or Chinese Amarican love hate relationship?
Arabian productions: *Depict the Eastern Roman Empire*
Hollywood: "WAIT. THAT'S ILLEGAL"
Sucks that there aren’t more good films that take place in antiquity coming out of Hollywood. It’s kinda a niche topic I suppose… not a guarantee box office hit unless a big name is attached to it too, and that’s all Hollywood cares about.
@@Notimportant253 It was recently announced that Roland Emmerich is making a tv show set in Ancient Rome called "Those About to Die", in which Anthony Hopkins will play Vespasian. Something is something
Kind of shocking theres never been a Belisarius sword and sandals epic.
The Eastern roman empire is more popular in the arab world and tradition.
@@Notimportant253 plenty of films in that take place in antiquity. The Roman Empire during the dark ages and Middle Ages is nonexistent
There is actually a mention of Roman Emperor Decius in the Quran. This is in Surah 18, “The Cave”. The story of the people in the cave is that they were 7 young men in Syria, circa 3rd century, and they were followers of the Abrahamic faith. The Surah mentions a Roman official named “Daqyanus”, who is persecuting non-pagans. These men retreat and hide in a nearby cave, to avoid being slaughtered, in which they will sleep for 300 years. When they wake up, it is already the 6th Century. The Surah details that these men exited the cave, and found that the paganism had been replaced by Abrahamic religion (Christianity). Then the men go to a market to buy provisions, but they find that the currency had changed from 300 years ago, and that their old Roman coins had been replaced. Unfortunately, there isn’t any Television or film on this, but as I recall, this is the earliest Roman Emperor that was documented in Arab writings.
Although I’m not 100% certain, the Daqiyânouz mentioned in Quran should be an officer during the Diocletianic Persecutions. In fact, there’s a guy called Dacianus, quite possibly a legate in Gaul, whose name can be found in the stories of many Christian saints/martyrs at the time as he is alleged to have burnt many Christians in braziers in Aquitania and Gallia Narbonensis, the famous Saint Faith aka Santa Fe among them. Yet, I’ve gotto check my sources on it.
I know this! There's like, a TV Reinactment of it, It's called "اصحاب الكهف"
Here's the link to it ;): ua-cam.com/video/pmNfLkMsEhE/v-deo.html
and in it, is shown a small clip of I think Decius, either way, it's an alright reinactment of the story shown in the Qur'an, But it does have its own goofs, Like the sound for the footsteps sounding MUCH louder than the character's voices themselves, and the voice acting is a little cheesy, but other than that, it's really good!
The surah doesn't mention any names, time period or even how many men there were it only mentions the story with no details and a point is made that the number of men or there names isn't important and the message from the story is what is important
Woah, so there are stories of ancient time travelers in the Quran? Thats so cool.
the earliest documented Arab writing about roman emperors is probably the new testament
This is the highest quality Roman history channel on the entire website. Well done.
Dovahhatty and Tomminus Maximus: 🗿
@@theodosiusii408 IDK about Tomminus and what Dovahhatty did was impressive, but it was still a meme. Three other good channels are Thersites the Historian, The Historian's Craft, and Maiorianus (if you like late Roman history).
Also Dovah has been taking a break from uploading (unless he’s uploaded recently). For me it’s Romabop, Spectrum and whenever Historia Civilis decides he wants to upload lol
Historia Civilis?
Toldinstone is quite good if you haven't heard of him.
“Instead of historical Theodora, we have Thedora the sexy scheming lady, who is responsible for all the trouble and betrays like half of the Emperors”
I’m glad to see that we’re keeping up with the Roman tradition of making all the women near power into evil seductresses in our media. All she’s missing is wicked eastern magicks. :p
It’s always really cool seeing how other cultures view people. I remember reading about Alexander the Great and how that history is taught in the Persian regions of the world. Needless to say he’s not ‘the great’, though still seen as a very competent military leader. Seeing things from a truly alternate perspective is fascinating, even if we can never capture a lifetime of education, media and cultural vibes.
Funny enough it seems like 🇮🇳 dislikes Alexander more than 🇮🇷 does
@@ManiacMayhem7256 That's mostly because of western historians peddling the myth that Alexander "could have" invaded India but we were saved just because his soldiers were fed up.
@@lorddarkstorm1354 … but he DID conquer some of India. He conquered bits of Punjab down the Indus river.
Could he have conquered ALL of India? No, clearly not, sheer numbers and distance would prevent that if nothing else. But he was taking chunks of India and turned around because he was facing mutiny (and suffered some costly victories), that’s just true.
@@legateelizabeth It is debatable whether he even won against Porus. Porus was such an insignificant figure among the kingdoms of the time that he wasn't even mentioned in Indian history.
@@lorddarkstorm1354 but, it's true, isn't it?
5:35
the word Sahih in Sahih al-Bukhari means truth, because al-Bukhari put so much effort investigating the truth of every word he wrote and all muslims agreed that nothing he wrote was wrong after investigating his writing and his ways of verifying
The verbal transmission of events among Muslims has 4 basic degrees of validity: Sahih "true", Hasan "good", Dae'f "weak" and Mawdoo’ "wrong or lie"
The story of the son in law of Abu Sufyan’s conversion to Christianity is Dae'f in terms of transmission and also contradicts what was stated in Sahih Al-Bukhari, so it is wrong
To collect information through verbal transmission among Muslims, you have to go to a fair, trustworthy person who has a strong memory and does not lie to tell you the information as he heard it from a just, trustworthy person who has a strong memory and does not lie before him, and so on until you reach the original, and this series is called “Sanad.”
Degrees of validity come in the reliability and honesty of these people, so they must be well-known people. Books have been written about the extent of reliability and honesty and how the life of these people was. This is not a single science among the muslems, but rather a whole bunch of sciences, each of which specializes in a part, and each one has its own scholars and books.
Usually, if the reliability of all these people is confirmed, the information is considered correct, but this was not enough for Al-Bukhari and Muslim (his name is Muslim), as they set additional conditions such as that they are strict in accepting the reliability of people in the Sanad, and also that we make sure that the two just, trustworthy, truthful and strong memory people lived in the same city at the same time to prove they have met, and here comes the difference between Bukhari and Muslim, where Muslim stops here while despite the proofs, Bukhari refuses to write unless it is proven to him that they met in that city and sat togather etc...
To the point that Bukhari traveled to get hear Hadith from someone and when he met the man he saw him actting like he will feed the horse so the horse will go back to the stable, Bukhari considerd this act a lie and traveled back home hearing
Thanks for the clarification, the information about degrees of validity is very useful
Adding to what you said: a (Sahih) Hadith in this context of Bukhari's book means: (of a valid chain of narration) i.e. it was narrated by a chain of pious and precise people without any issues anywhere in the chain (like issue of no proof of contact with one person in the chain saying a word that may not imply that this person met the other person in the chain, or mismatch in the date of birth and death, etc...).
Eventhough we consider this type of Hadiths as valid for consideration in our religious practices, but logically it is not necessarily accurate 100 percent. Thats why we do not take our religious creed from such Hadiths if they where not backed up by other proofs, because single people still may get things wrong albeit they are strong and pious. The Hadiths that we consider to be 100 percent true is the (Mutawatir) which is reported numerously by different narrators and through various chains of transmission in a way that make it impossible that these people were gathered on a lie which substantiates its authenticity (each level in the chain must have numerous narrators in it until the event discribed is reached). This occurs in the Quran and several Hadiths/Athars/Historical events.
I watch basically all the major YT History channels, partly because I'm interested in (more or less) all of history and partly because I like seeing interesting and differing takes on various historical topics. This video is probably the most interesting history video I've ever seen, because you offered some fascinating insight into what non-europeans think of Rome. Great job!
Its very Bi-Partial and I like how he Incorporates a different point of view on how most westerners view rome as the Romans themselves did not bind themselves to just a "Western Identity"
@@maddogbasil Yeah! I really enjoyed how thoughtful his approach was too. He could have easily dunked hard on the movies/tv shows that were modestly made but he didn't and still treated the whole thing with great respect and included the history that they got right and wrong. It was really fun
The truth is Syrians and North Africans are more related to roman empire more than what modern "Europeans" do.
Muslim Historian here. Great effort on getting the knowledge from our source literature!
I am currently doing a series on the Abbasids which were neighbouring the byzantine for all of their existence, some fascinating stories there!
Why do we Muslims respect Christian conquerors but Christians always hate our conquerors??
We Muslims are so stupid
May Allah increase your knowledge.
"Neighbouring". You mean constantly trying to invade them
@@WurrzagsMorkyMischeif Eh what were a bunch of Greeks doing in Syria? Yeah.
I am not an arab but Im turkish and here we dont really have any strong opinions on romans on either way but some people like myself really do admire what the romans(including byzantines) have accomplished and their legacy is still continuing in a sense with our lifestyles
Considering the Levant, Anatolia, and North Africa were all Roman territory for hundreds of years, it really is as much their history as it is for Europeans.
Back to urumqi
@@geoDB. Make me
@@geoDB. stupid racist
Strange how Turks don't think anything of Rome nowadays considering how the Ottomans claimed to be the Roman empire
There is also an Egyptian TV series called "Rogol Al Akdar" "رجل الأقدار" which covers the story of the conquest of Egypt by Amr ibn Al-As and his governorship period of Egypt, it shows interactions with the Romans who ruled Egypt at the time
And a movie called أصحاب الكهف (The people of the cave) which speak about the sleepers of Ephesus and is set in Roman anatolia in the dawn of Christianity era
thank you, great recommendations
Not roman Anatolia but roman Philadelphia - Amman today and its Iranian show
As a Muslim, I amire your research on this
I love your channel, keep this up
Are you Muslim, seriously 😂😂😂
I would love other episodes like this. Seeing more from Arab and Persian perspectives would be so cool!
As an Afghan, I can say that the Sassanian Empire was and is a very major part of our history, because although there was no Afghanistan in the 7th century, a lot of our culture is inherited from the Sassanian times.
It should also be pointed out that Khorasan and Khwarezm prior to Islam wasn't linguistically or ethnically Persian. It's actually under Islam that Persian language spread to these regions. There were no Tajiks pre-Islam, just other Iranic languages. Muslims additionally spread Persian culture throughout South Asia and Inner Asia.
@@poppinc8145 The funny thing is that Persian Islamic culture originally originated in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, not modern Iran.
After the Seljuk invasion of Iran, modern Persian was imposed on the Iranians, which led to the extinction of the Middle Persian language
In addition to other languages such as Sogdian and Bactrian
Leo III did a little trolling.
Btw, I really wanna do a 'historical fiction' book on Justinian II., as in, have all the history stay, but expand on the things we don't know about him, flesh him out as a person. He wasn't a good emperor by any means, but his 'concept' is interesting. His story just sounds like a fanmade CK3 character. And while I'm there, I think Leo III deserves one of his own. The dude is legendary and highly underrated.
If I spare a single one of them, may God drown me here!
@@andreascovano7742
> gets deposed and nose cut off
> retakes the throne
> cuts off the nose of his usurper and his usurper's usurper and then kills them
spared no one! just as God intended!
Such book exists called Justinian by H.B. Turtledaub or whatever his pen name is.
@@Panthius I think I heard about it. If it's the one I'm thinking about, it's about a fictional soldier recounting their experiences serving him.
@@christurner6330 that's the one, it does have justinians pov on some chapters
Most Arabs today see the Persian empire as much more evil than the Roman empire. However I think it's important to keep in mind that this may be particularly exacerbated today due to the political strife with Iran (most Arabs are Sunnis and Iranians are mostly Shia).
Persians today have a lot of hatred for Arabs especially umar ibn al khattab cuz he led the invasion of sassanid persia
I am arab and I am shia 😂 they hate us anyway( sunni and shia) ، many shia Muslims visit a holy places in Iran Imam Al Redha , they beat and push us in those places .
No we’ve always had a back and forth hate relationship with persians , mostly cause they tried many times to invade us where as the romans didn’t
Sassanid only. In Achaemenid Arab people is important to them
I don't speak Arabic or anything but I think by focusing on the Eastern Roman Empire so much you missed out on media depictions of other Roman-Arab interactions. There was a Syrian television series from the 90s about Queen Zenobia of Palmyra and Emperor Aurelian and Levantines (and most historians) consider the Palmyrenes as their direct ancestors.
I've only found it now thanks to your description. It's the one called "Al-Ababeed, I assume. It's tough to find those without specific directions. I didn't know that there was do much interesting stuff made in Syria.
@@RomabooRamblings syria is very well known when it comes to TV shows and movies. one of the most popular TV shows ever is a syrian show about life under French occupation called bab al hara
@@toweli9714 great show but only the first 3 seasons after that the directors and the producing company took the "i can milk you" road
Almost all media is made by Syrians, and then ruined by Egyptians.
@@RomabooRamblings Prior to the civil war, Syria was the leader scripted dramas and movies in Arabic. I think Egypt might be a very distant second.
Great video, can't believe there actually exists a series about the 20 years anarchy period
Great content, thanks for the research and all the effort put into this.
13:57 I can understand that many productions about Late/Eastern Rome were low budget and had to reuse uniforms from other products about Ancient Rome (being the sword-and-sandal movies of the 60s good examples of that), but there are also high-budget productions like the movie "Agora", in which the soldiers wear completely anachronistic armor, which is simply ridiculous. At least we have the BBC productions (like "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" and "Heroes and Villains: Attila") and the "Total War" games, which accurately depict roman armies during the last years of the Empire
I think there becomes a point where you can sacrifice authenticity for historical simplicity. Yes it's nice when tv shows have time accurate outfits and stuff on characters but frankly when general people think about Roman soldiers that ancient Romans outfit is what most people think. It's very easy to help viewers separate the 2 groups by using identifying characteristics.
So yes it is unfortunate that not all high budget productions are 100% accurate but also like, it's not "inexcusable" it's just whatever. These shows aren't made for history buffs they're made for the general public. Shows made for history bluffs will make sure they are more accurate rather than more identifiable
If I’m remembering the right rise and fall of an empire (there were two shows of the same name I think?) one wasn’t very accurate and mostly just used the same armor over and over again.
@@connorgolden4 You are referring to the History Channel show "Rome: Rise and Fall of an Empire"
agora is an antichristian film, that was the main point of the film and not historical accuracy
Wow. I thought most of the romaboos channels on UA-cam are quite one-dimensional, but you are something else with each video having something original.
@GH0ST_ A lot of Romaboos are stereotypically just some European larpers
@GH0ST_ Specifically Mediterranean part not Nordic nor Slavic.
@GH0ST_ Rome is Rome. Russia is another entity that claimed to be the successors of Rome which even the ottomans had a legitimacy of being the third Rome so stick the IQ cope to yourself.
@GH0ST_ Europe is a continent. Rome wasnt tied to just Europe for all Europeans exclusively which clearly you seem to be mad about.
@GH0ST_ are you mad the non Europeans of the middle East and North Africa get to acknowledge part of their history
From an Arab fan I think you did a really good job in this video!
This was great media analysis. Great combination of historical critique as well as review of these media as films separate from their historical context.
Many of the Arab historical works are produced by the Gulf and represented, written and directed by Syrians, and the rest are also Syrian productions, but with lower budgets.
There is also a series called Al-Hajjaj, which is translated. The series is really amazing, talks about the person who was the cause of the expansion of the Umayyad state in such a huge way
As a Syrian. I believe we should be more proud of our Roman and byzantine history. The Levant is the only place on earth revered by all 3 abrahamic religions
typical alawie
@@dirtyox6862
Fuck alawies, you don't have to be an alawie to be proud of your land's history
It's also maybe the most contested area on Earth. The earliest battles we have documented are there and we can assume that they've been fighting over that holy land for thousands of years.
As a Palestinian, I am more proud to learn about Romans paying tax to Damascus than Damascus paying tax Romans, I dont know about you but I see the world from Arab/Palestinian centric view
As a fellow Syrian I absolutely agree
I really enjoyed your latest videos. Really creative ideas and please keep making videos like this
It’s crazy to me how the Roman Empire was so influential that with all the major Abrahamic religions they occupy this sort of mythical status from being so omnipresent.
An empire so great god first sent christ to convert them to christianity and the turks to relight the candle of rome
This empire we must not forget was a superpower. Successively the best at trade, military and most important of all influence.
they were magnificent. For 2000 years they held on to the same identity
makes sense to me, at their prime they controlled what was essentially the center of the old world
There is nothing mythical in the Quran, it is all history and truth.
The incident he spoke about was a prophecy and a miracle that was fulfilled ,,,,
I support crowdfunding to give an image upgrade, sountrack change and English subtitiles for Faris Bany Marawan! (since it uses HP soundtrack.... IMPERIO!!!!!)
gonna look into those AI image upscalers
A better idea would be to try to license it for an international release.
This video was great! Please more like this
This is a great topic, one I’ve never thought of before. Thank you for opening my eyes to a non western pov of the eastern Roman Empire!
I never thought to ask this question, but it was fascinating, thank you for the new info :)
Another good movie worth checking out is Al-Ababeed. Its a Syrian soap opera centered around the fall of Queen Zenobia. It features the talented actress Raghda. And while the budget is small, the cast is filled with some of the best actors in all of Syrian cinema.
What a cool idea for a video! This and the one comparing Byzantine history and HOTD are much more interesting than the 1000th video about Roman military history (though I love that topic too)
This is a *really* awesome video. Well done.
Arab here, I absolutely love this video, you are doing great work, keep doing this bro
First time on this channel and I must say, you display a lot of resorct to our religion. Thanks.
This is a well done effort. I would love to see more videos like this . Keep it up
As a muslim and from the middle east I think I can give my thoughts on how we view rome
Growing up for a long time I viewed romans probably the same way most Christians in the medieval era viewed the ancient Egyptians.
Age old pagan conquerors from a past beyond a past, tried to Wrong one of God's Chosen and later had to suffer the wrath of the almighty.
Basic monotheistic bed time stories.
Regardless as I grew up and learnt more from classes I learnt of the rise of islam and how jt changed the middle east forever.
A tribe of arabs unified the peninsula and Conquered the words super-powers and beyond in less than a 100 years.
By then I saw romans as more of an ancient pagan enemy of Islam same as the zoroastrian persians and Axumite king Abraha that tried besiege makkah.
Finally after spending a long time revising alot of my ethno-cultural heritage and deep diving in the wonderful world of history I came upon the enigma of why much of the middle east and north Africa didn't view rome the same way as many western European and Christians did in general.
1) Race/Ethnicity
This was a tough one due to how anachronistic it is as race itself wasn't really a concept in the Greco-Roman world.
But due to modern influences of colonialism and nationalism.
The way many middle eastern and North Africans see romans was heavily influenced by colonialism. As Europeans strongly encompassed their religion and culture around there Roman heritage.
Roman culture itself is almost seen as European by the middle east.
(This is by the way strictly north african and middle eastern as I'm not sure how turks see Roman Ethnicity)
2) Religion
This is probably the biggest and most obvious reason, it's not surprising that most of the middle east is in fact muslim (of course with some amounts of Native Christian population)
Now if we get into the technicality, both Islam and Christianity are the only 2 religions on earth that accept the existence of Jesus and the role he played on this earth in his time.
Therefore when the crucifixion is brought into place, many Muslims feel both horrified and saddened that a Messenger of God was treated so Vile by the Pagans of the land and this has left a generational long Loathing towards Rome itself with even the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) having prophesies the Fall of Rome.
Adding on to this, the Christians had after centuries managed to occupy most of rome through proselytizing and building firm institutions across the Greco-Roman world an with the Fall of Western Rome and the rise of islam, the Germanic Barbarians had slowly began to spread the cross among their kin further into the European continent.
This gave rise the eventual crusades Kickstarting the generational long animosity Muslims had for Christians.
And the sad decline of the AL andalus and the Eastern Roman empire
(Again this is just mainly "Franks or western Christians as many eastern syriac, coptic or sometimes Orthodox were alot more welcome in many muslim households due to closer proximity)
The crusades are up there with colonialism and mongol conquests as one of the darkest moments in middle eastern history. (Apart from modern history unfortunately)
Thr mongols and crusaders were ruthless and this had broke alot of the more diverse and Accepting characteristics much if the middle east had towards other religions
Especially with the collapse of the enlightened Arab Caliphate and much of the hellenicz zoroastrian, Latin or foreign influences weren't looked as kindly upon as they once were.
This became alot worse with the Fall of Baghdad and the arrival of the mamelukes, turks, berbers.
The islamic world became subsumed in the chaos of the Mid - late medieval period and took on much more militaristic
Fashion as the turko-Mongol influences began to seep into the islamic word and the old era concept of Jihad became revitalized to better survive the violent rise of powerful states in the region.
3)
I've written aloto so I'll keep it sweet.
Overall the gap widened with thr Fall of both the western and Eastern rome and the rise of islam and the expansion of christendom.
Conflicting interests and cultural- Religious divide gave birth to a segregation that couldn't be easily fixed.
(Quick note - just like to add that there are multiple sources used to show the bipartisan outlook the muslim world had to Christianity.
Byzantine stone-mason and builders helped construct the Grand mosque of cordoba, one of the greatest architectural accomplishments of Al Andalus
Books could be written about the relationship between founder of the Carolingian dynasty and father of Western Europe Charlemagne and one of the Greatest islamif Caliphs of the islamic Golden age Harun Ar Rashid (Aaron the Righly Guided)
Before the mongols/turkic invasions and rise of the papacy and religious intolerance in general
The vestiges of the Greco-Roman world were still present to some degree as many across the Mediterranean would still not feel the divide as strongly as their later descendants would.
"This gave rise the eventual crusades Kickstarting the generational long animosity Muslims had for Christians."
That animosity started well before the Crusades. It began the moment the Arabs left the Arabian Peninsula and started conquering far-flung lands.
@@MrColuber well not really,
There was no consise order to wipe put Christianity.
It's all about taking advantage of opportunities, arabs saw the persians and greeks were weak and took the chance.
Same with the crusades, you didn't see any crusades when the great arab caliphates were ruling the world and raiding through the Mediterranean and traveling across the world.
But you did see crusades when the caliphate fell and the turks came to mess with the holy sepulcher.
It's all about opportunities at the end of the day, learning history helps to deal with the different forms of ignorance born out of propaganda.
@@maddogbasil Tell that to my ancestors.
@@MrColuber arabs didn't really do genocides
The most they did was banning pagan festivals and religions like zoroastrianism and other cults like that
Christmas and judaism was given alot more leeway
That's why 90% of judaism still exists today because many of them thrived in early islamic caliphates.
Also remember forced conversion is not allowed in islam no matter how many people try and say it does.
Even if a muslim administration tried to sneak this sin into a law there would muslims rebelling against that government for fear of Bi'dah or innovation of the faith.
Taxes is how it's always been done, even the ottomans later in their rule.
People don't know but Christians existed in the middle east for centuries.
Theirs well documented sources of pockets of Christian population still existing in North Africa all the way up until the 17th/18th century.
Making another one dimensional video doing the same old thing with no challenge? _Broke_
Making a new video from a new perspective to challenge both creator and audience? Woke
Making a response nearly a thousand words stepping up to the challenge? *Bespoke*
فيديو جميل صراحه
حلو ان الواحد يسمع وجهات نظر متعدده عن وقائع تاريخيه، استفدت اشياء كثيره منك استمر ياصاحبي
Thanks for posting very Informative.
Thank you for making this video. Wow.
Hell yeah. Not enough folks put out videos on the later / eastern empire.
Love your videos!
well done, I appreciate your research, and your effort. i very much enjoyed it
This is very well researched and measured. Excellent.
Am I the only one who expected a language learning sponsor? 😄
I really enjoyed watching this video! 👍
lol
"You know what kind of raid would give the Caliph more satisfaction? Raid: Shadow Legends!"
Great video and well done on the impressive amount of research you put into this. Further episodes on the depiction of the Eastern Romans from other countries would be brilliant. Turkish is a great idea. Perhaps there are also some interesting depictions from Bulgaria, Greece and Russia?
at that time bulgarians were settled northen of the black sea (in those days ephxinos pontos). Russians came up on Kiev a bit later on (Vladimir) as for the the greeks they had already imposed the lang to the area apart of members of the elit (as Normands and Saxons in england later on). Division - segregation between eastern and western roman empire was based on this. As evidence you may try any available " bysantine" -( german term) relic ikon anything applying to the eastern christian church . Max and Dacian Constantine conflict was the beging of a conflict that end up in 1453 as the fall of constantinople.
Brilliant work addressing the nuances and inconsistencies that have always been there (for those that read up on this subject).
Very cool, unique perspective. Thanks for making this video.
As a Muslim personally I admire the Romans and I see them as a proof that hard work and dedication is the strongest weapon men could have .
They're also proof that they just didn't die 😂
@@leigon. they even mention queen dahia aka kahina in the show after apsimar failer in 699 ad
بربري
@@leigon. there are no Romans now , the Roman empire ended in 1453.
@@M.Ghilas I'm saying for the time they were around, their survivability was higher than that of any other country
Seeing you talk about thus Syrian show made me so sad.
What Syria was and what it has become is seriously one of the greatest tragedies of the 2010s.
I really don't want to get all political here or blame the Americans for looking after their own interests but seriously I hope that Syria can get rid of Nato forces occupying over 1/3 of their territory and I hope they can conquer back their oil fields from american troops to hopefully one day rebuild their country and give us treats such as this show again.
Syria doesn't need the presence of foreign powers to dig itself into a hole. It's boundless love of autocrats and endless hatred towards Israel will keep it from ever becoming anything great. Blaming foreigner is just passing the buck. Syrians are the real problem with Syria, and until they learn to bury their grudges and create a functional democracy they will continue to suffer.
You have Syria and Iraq confused. The ones chopping up Syrians people to bits is the regime leader Bashar Al Assad and his Russian support.
@@IStevenSeagal of course. If that makes you happy my dear 19 year old friend.
It is literally Russia and Iran that are responsible for the destruction of Syria not the US or NATO.
I think you got Syria and Iraq mixed up?
Yes NATO is evil, yes America is a criminal country, but believe it or not the main cause of the Syrian tragedy are Iran, Russia and the dictator Bashar al-Assad regime
Thanks for the tv show recommendtions.
Very high quality video. Bravo
Nice video and I enjoyed it❤..But there is a series, almost the most famous historical Arab series, and the largest of them in terms of budget is the Omar series, and the Romans were present in it, and the character of Hercules was present
Very nice! I'm learning about history I hadn't known before! Thanks also for specifying that you're talking about the Eastern Roman empire (also known as Byzantium). I also notice you use the word "whomever" correctly - this is something most Americans cannot do. Very nice video overall.
what a fantastic video , combines eastern roman, islamic history and arab cinema . Fantastic !!
Fascinating work. Brilliant
You haven’t mentioned it; but Nikephoros was an ethnically Arab from the Levant, so he was always portrayed as a fierce rival to his own people by Arab historians.
Also he was in the same period of probably the most famous Caliph in Arab literature, Harun Al-Rasheed, so Arab writers portrayed him as the nemesis of Harun Al-Rasheed.
The two exchanged threats and messages for years, and one of the most famous quotes from Harun was a declaration of war to Nikephoros after the latter stopped paying tribute to the Abbasid's Caliph, where he said: "From Harun, the Commander of the Believers, to Naqfur the Dog of the Romans. I read your message; and my response to you is what you see and not what you hear, Salam (Peace) on you”.
The Abbasids would later beat The Romans in the Battle of Krasos, and Nikephoros was forced to pay tribute again to Harun Al-Rasheed.
Leo the Syrian and his dynasty were the same period as the Umayyads and theyre Arabs
@@Bibliotecanatalie And ?
He would've been Aramaic, not Arabic, as he was born before the Arabization of the Levant (especially given that he was literally a Roman Emperor)
@@Bluebanana2121_ He belonged to the Ghassanid tribe, if you don't know who they were; they were an Arab tribe whom were part of the Christian Arab federation in the Levant Pre-Islam. And the Ghassanids were fiercely loyal to the Roman empire, almost 1/3 of the Roman army on the battle of the Yarmouk was made up of Ghassanids and other Christian Arab tribes.
And the Arab presence in the Levant goes way back before Islam. The earliest mention of Arabs in the Levant is recorded around 800 BC. Arabs had many dynasties and civilizations in the Levant before Islam, you can look them up for yourself.
Here is an extra fun facts for you; One of the first Christian Kings was Abgar of Edessa, who had Nabataean Arab origin. It's said he even was the first king to exchange letters with Jesus. Moreover, the first Christian Roman Emperor was Philip the Arab, who like his name suggests, was an Arab from the Levant, specifically from the area between modern day south of Syria and the north of modern day Jordan.
Next time, don't expose your ignorance like this, because your ignorance about this matter is kinda embarrassing.
Nikiforos was Capadocean Greek, not Arab.
For the pre Islamic: you can find "العبابيد" "Al Ababid" covering Palmyra war with the Romans in details...... It's a Syrian production ao you can expect the same quality of the one you mentioned...... The point is that those are old TV series going back to late 90s and early 2000s so when those were made even HD (720p) was not a thing.
That depends on the camera and lens actually. 16mm is comparable to 2k, and 35mm is comparable to 4k, and 35mm IMAX is comparable to 8K, and 70mm is comparable to 16k. How do you think giant cinema screens projected them without getting blurry? TV shows that were recorded on 35mm don't even need to be remastered.
Very balanced and critical historical research. Great video!
great video thanks
Very interesting video, as always. Thank you!
Regarding the time period you've covered, I've seen documentaries and have read books on the Eastern Roman Empire, but I don't recall ever having seen a movie about it. English subtitles would be good.
Nikephoros I Had heritage tying back to the Ghassanids, a Arab Christian tribe from the Levant, a German king actually gave a physical description of him as having dark curly hair and “the skin of an Ethiopian”. People forget that there were Arab Christians long before there were Arab Muslims.
because of his arabic roots haroon al rasheed called him "the dog of rome " ☠
I highly doubt a German king knew what an ethiopian looked like
وأنا اوافقه على ذالك 😂@@tk-jl5dv
Fascinating history. Good stuff.
I love that you are using CK3 music soundtrack in the video and the historical detail there. You just get a subs.
Arabs in the middle ages had some respect to the romans especially the ones in spain and you can see that in their literature and historical books
But modern arabs they couldn’t care less about the romans
To them they are nothing but a classic enemies just like the greek and Persians
true, the early Arab empires and caliphates were successful because they took a lot of inspiration from the Romans
Lol which is basically how people in the west view the Arabs.
@@valtontony826 if you read the books of ibn khaldon , Al-Masudi , ibn battuta and others
You ll notice They all had love hate relationship to the romans and wish the arabs could learn from them
In fact many people don’t know this but in the house of wisdom many scientists like hunayn ibn ishaq were bought from the Byzantine because Baghdad and Cordoba had a higher quality of life
After every war between the arabs and the romans arabs usually ask for mew books to translate
Some of them like Yaqut al-Hamawi were a Christian roman (who had so much love to the islamic empire & culture ) immigrated and started his business in iraq and later married a woman from there
Greeks ?
@@prsimoibn2710 Byzantines maybe.
A really nice depiction of the media and the history great video. As a Muslim the message is my favorite movie and i can only recomend it to everyone
How?? It violated the most basic principle of Islam in form of depicting the prophet and his companion.
If you are still watching it then it's your secular right to do so, but don't call yourself a "Muslim" then.
@@bullymaguire8380The most basic principle of Islam is that (There is no God except Allah) and so no one deserves nor should be worshipped other than Him.
The Prophet (Peace be upon him) was not shown in the movie. To avoid that issue, the scenes were made in way where the characters were talking to him and mentioning what he said without depicted him in person.
I love old-fashioned historical epics. Will check out. Thanks
5:53 the narration is far more reliable than most of what we know from the dark ages and there was no son of Abu Sufyan who converted to christianity from islam, i couldn't find anything that would support this claim
Dude you are a freaking hero going down the rabbit hole. You just earned a ton of respect from me with this video, besides being an awesome video in itself the fact that you have brought to light this hidden jewel (Faris Bany Marawan) is blowing my mind. This is the shit for what I stalk the internet the other day had a whim about Qing dinasty China and I finded this yutuber guy that has an awesome channel about it and the images he uses to depict some characters are from obscure chinese tvshows about the lives of some emperors, so I tracked this shows and I've been binging the entire history of emperors Kangxi and Yongzhen. Now this you have brought is even better I'm gona dive right into it and find whats going on with those subs and ask to people, we need to tap into this...
What's the UA-camr called?
@@merlin8964 this one youtube.com/@historyofchina8303
enjoy
@@egillskallagrimson5879 thanks
What's the show called?
I speak arabic
Very good video 👍
Omg, I remember some of those series in my childhood, this is very nostalgic.
It's rare to come across an open and objective attempt to delve into Arabic media, especially when discussing themes of empire, religion and war.
Also, the remaster recommendation was funny af it caught me completely off guard.
This video and the HRE video has made me interested in this channel, as a Muslim myself, I respect the Romans, conquering that much land during that era is an impressive feat, and maintaining it for a long time is as well, well done to you, and I hope you reach high levels of success in the future.
Nice video brother
wouw bro just wouw. epic content. keep it up. new sub
During a period of chaos in the Arab-Islamic world,
You guys are just making your own history .
Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace, is higher than you and your God, Jesus
I think arabs from the arabian peninsula view romans as historical enemies, just like how german barbarians viewed them before.
Arabs from the levant (especially in Syria and lebanon) however view the roman empire as part if their history. We are even taught that in school to kind of embrace it as part of Syrian history. There is also a large christian population in both countries and they have a longing for Rome more than westerners, because its like their father who left them.
In syria they focus alot about syrian history to strengthen the syrian identity obviously. They teach us about the roman rebellion that happened in palmyra where queen Zenobia claimed alot of land for her own. We see that as the first true syrian empire.
Even when they teach us about islamic history they focus alot more on the umayyad caliphate which was established by Muawiyah I who was the governor of syria. He made Damascus the caliphates capital.
that probably varies. Some tribes (mostly christian tribes) had close ties with the romans.
correct, the Ghassanids were client state of theirs, the general who razed Carthage in 698 was Ghassdanid
The irony in Syrians romanticizing Zenobia is that she probably wasn't even all that Syrian. She likely had Hellenic heritage.
@@DovahFett I dont really know if that is genetically true. But culturally maybe, the known arab history kind of correlates with islamic history so at the times of zenobia the arab identity hasnt really been forged yet. Not even the arabic language had its own script(it was spoken, but written using other scripts like aramean, greek, thamudic and other ancient scripts).
So arab history comes from many different tribes in that area at that time. Thats why some scholars consider her as arab.
@@HP_lovecrafts_cat67 the average modern arab from the arabian peninsula would say that the romans are historical enemies since they were the enemies of muslims back then.
But I definitely agree with your point, my clan “Tayy” were christians and close to the Byzantines. Some other clans like “Thamud” even served as roman auxilia. Both of these clans are from the middle of the arabian peninsula.
Good stuff.
i did not know that, thank you !
I've thought a lot about this as well. I feel like there is a respect, but also a feeling of superiority.
There are many deferences between Arabs of Arabic peninsula and the arabized people of the Levant Syria, Lebanon Palestine Jordan. The levantines had contributed so much for the Roman empire even with emperors and royal families. Not to forget the Syrian- Greek greatest architect Apollodorus of Damascus who built a lot of famous places in Rome
There were Nabataeans, Ghassanids and tanukhids who lived in southern Syria before Islam ,so there were minority of Arabs living there.
The Semitic emperors contributed to Rome's downfall. Caracalla expanded Roman citizenship to non-Italians. Elagabalus wanted to be a woman, and was assassinated four years into his reign at the tender age of eighteen.
@@farooq3549 Nabataens were Mixed people who spoke Aramaic/ Syriac, even schoolers from the 9th century called everyone from Syria and Iraq Nabati. Syria gave so much to the ancient world like the first alphabet, first melody in Ugarit, first olive tree, first wheat..etc
@@ano03030 I call that b.s you need to learn more about the contributions between the regions of the Empire. Rome needed two regions to survive Egypt and the Levant! Even Aurelian led Rome's first army twice to eliminate Zenobia.
You can compare this action with the indifference that the Romans paid towards northern Europe (who today consider Rome part of their history, haha, because they have no real history).
@@maddatheist7254 You middle eastern populations are not the brightest tools in the shed. Your false claims over Northern Europe having no history is refuted by archaeology and DNA evidence, such as the Tarim Basin mummies, as well as various ancient art and depictions from Greeks, Romans and Asians describing Aryans with red or blond hair, green or blue eyes and light skin pigmentation.
Subscribed, high quality production that improves my vocabulary
It's verry interesting and amazing description..infortunatly i don't inderstend the English. Have you think to translate in Arabic or franch or italien..:) . Thanks for this job!
As an Arab and a history buff I really wish our period pieces had better historical accuracy and production quality. the classical arabic dialogue is fun though.
You Are Not Arab Just Arabized
Take A Dna Test
Mostly Arabized Are Genetic
Jewish/Amazigh/Turkmens/Coptic/Persian and other race
@@daniel_bart leave me alone Zionist.
@@Thesandchief Hahahah
I Am Proud Zionist Khazar Jews
If You Have Balls Take A Dna Test
Arabized Guy
@Daniel Bart you're literally harassing every arab in the comments section telling them the same thing. You're clearly a troll.
@@Thesandchief so its wrong what i say? why have arabs no arab dna?
mostly are arabized
1. Most of the Islamic movies and series are made in Iran and they are very good but are often overlooked because Iran is a Shia Muslim country. So there is a lot of descriminiation against Shia sect in the Muslim world even though most of the Shias are peaceful aside from politics and all of them are Muslims.
2. Anyways, Iran made a very memorable series featuring The Western Roman Empire called "The Men of Angelos". Its the story about the seven Christian sleepers which is mentioned in Jewish, Christian and Islamic relgion. It's very good series. The filmmakers of this series gifted the copy of this series to the pope of that time. Dont forget to check that out.
Yes, more of this. It's pretty interesting
This video is very interesting
Leo was known to be "saracen minded" and he also spoke arabic i think he definitely had origins from syria
His name is the dog, but he only has one feat. He killed the demon, show him
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j ????
@@jaif7327 Harun al-Rashid used to call the Roman emperor the dog because he was an Arab, but he helped the Romans
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j not the same emperor.
@@kay1057 The Roman emperor during the reign of Harun al-Rashid was a Christian Arab. This is mentioned in history, and the Romans had a system of government, which is for the ruler to be the commander of the army.
I really liked this video, and I am surprised that the Arabs have made an effort to depict the Eastern Romans well.
Now if only the west could depict the arabs well!
@@alisaood9445 If only. I mean Saladin was presented pretty well.
Well I wonder about the western empire ..
@@ironduke3780they didn’t depict them they actually were like that
@@ironduke3780 Hollywood films and television shows frequently depicted Arabs as villains, if not outright terrorists, and misogynistic brutes with backward and mysterious customs. Hollywood has also largely portrayed Arabs as Muslims, overlooking the significant number of Christian Arabs in the United States and the Middle East.
Wow that’s actually fun to watch
What I find amazing is that to the Arabs, the Eastern Roman Empire is simply THE Roman Empire. It's treated with substantially more care than, I would argue, in the west (except greece and turkey). Islam relatively young age at the time offers an interesting perspective on that matter. I hope in the future that we would see more TV shows whether dramatic or otherwise that would depict the Roman-Arab history with more moderation in bias.
It s not so much islam s age as much as it was the west s fixation that they are the “true” Christians ,then Romans and eventually even Greeks beginning with the renaissance.
Add onto that the idea that not having a strong state essentially makes a people subhuman taking primacy from 18th century onwards and really becoming mainstream during the 19th and “Byzantium” is canonised .
@@jdoc3118 yeh Hollywood definitely made that clear...almost no mention of eastern roman empire in their production...as if Roman stop to exist after the fall of western Rome lol
Who else could be said to be the true Roman Empire except for the one with a more or less unbroken lineage from the split?
'Byzantine' is a name give a century later. Before that, they were just the Romans.
@@jdoc3118 but they weren't really roman. They had their own language and culture. Roman spoke latin not greek and after the roman religion they became roman christian while greek orthodox...
@@ValeriusMagni Greek was the official language in Eastern Roman Empire, plus even the Romans of the West would speak Greek, Greek was like the English of today. It's not a coincidence that Bible was written in Greek to reach more people and more nations since the majority could understand the language compared to Aramaic or Jewish. The Orthodox and the Catholic Church were one church before the schisms. Eventually, the 2 churches excommunicated each other and here you have the Catholics in the West and the Orthodox in the East. The excommunication ended around 1962-1965......
أنا عربي و احترم الرومان جداً العرب كانوا شجعان و عظماء و الرومان أيضاً كانوا شجعان و عظماء ❤
و سفاكين للدماء
If you're going to look into Turkish stuff I think they're are some productions with Spanish language dubs out there. IDK how historical they are though.
Great video, I find middle eastern media fascinating. Still, would have liked to see some interviews of people on the street, asking them what they know about Rome. Would be interesting how this contrasts to other nations.
I love the CK3 music in the background :)