Star Wars The Acolyte "Destiny" Episode 3 REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- You gotta make the most of your Trinity.
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Sol to Osha: (the most lgbt community thing I've seen xD)
"I was only four, but I knew I was different from my family. The Jedi saw how special I was. And I can see that in you, Osha. But when I joined the Jedi, I found out there were many other children like me. "
"There are other children there?"
"Thousands like us."
"But you must have the courage to say what you want and you must have the courage to tell the truth."
This episode is the "Osha perspective" version of events. We're going to see different points of view, Rashomon style. There indeed a lot of big questions, and I expect we're going to learn the truth alongside Osha.
It seems very much such the unreliable narrator that we see in The Last Jedi
@@bemasaberwyn55Yeah. But more in the incomplete perspective sense like when we see the events from Kylo’s perspective, he’s not lying but he’s also missing some context.
Damn I'm listening to Jessie and Rashomon comes to mind then I look at the screen and see your comment scroll up 😂
@@Mr-RinnI think that will be the same here. The way it seems like things are going Mae's perspective will involve the Jedi killing the coven but what she will miss is that the coven (probably Mother Coral) will escalate the situation in a confrontation.
Kurosawa was unknown to SW fans until yesterday. Now I've heard Rashomon a dozen times this morning? When did this hit the press?
I hope they watch Hidden Fortress first. Rash is great but the clone wars generation won't take to it.
I do wish we got to know Osha and the Jedi for at least two more episodes of screen time before the flashback episode. However that last scene seeing Sol cry with Osha really hit me. It’s very rare to see the Jedi be this emotionally vulnerable and it’s a nice change of pace from either always being wise and stoic or stoic and uptight
I think the way that Mae was possessive of Osha is what led to her flip to wanting to kill Osha, because we know that possessiveness can lead to the dark side. I think that's what they were going for even if it didn't translate on screen very well.
I think of other hints of the darkness within her such as her holding that butterfly creature and having to be told to let it go( Which could very well be an unreliable narrator as If we are viewing things from Osha's perspective). And I think that we are going to see an episode in the future.That is going to be split between how Mae perceived things and how things actually went down. Kinda like TLJ
They were raised to be unhealthily codependent, told they were the exact same person who must never be separated, and throughout the episode Mae reacts badly and even violently to Osha not going along with that. And then after all that Osha tries to leave? No wonder she freaks out.
@@bemasaberwyn55 So, Osha restricted a butterfly before Mae did (2:03 in the episode). Osha became upset with her for doing the same thing. Interestingly, the music and perspective emphasize when Mae did it but not when Osha did.
@@prosperoeaton8201 I noticed that too! I rewound to make sure. I'm hoping that it was meant to signify that these events are heavily filtered by Osha's perspective, but I suppose we'll see.
Some good points raised. Maybe the fire scene was implausible on purpose and we later find out the Jedi did kill the witches
I love that Jessie is giving the series a fair shake. I feel like a lot of people on the internet right now are using this show as an outlet for their frustration with the Star Wars brand and not taking the show on its own merits
Yes
They're rage baiting because they have nothing else. If I don't like something I don't watch it or talk about it. I just do things I like.
Some are but I’ll be honest even some of the cool headed ones are pretty upset with this episode. Just the writing for this show is pretty terrible. Like how does the fire spread everywhere? Don’t know it just does.
Yes I feel the same and would like to say what George Lucas said to prequel haters , that they have grown older now as to when they first watched star wars when they were kids. So therefore these are resistant to change and being open minded. I think that episode 3 was the best of the series yer with much needed depth in its plot.
The creators openly provoked the fan base, if you would like a level headed response, you shouldn't do that.
I wonder if anyone else felt this, the idea of being pushed to participate in a religious commitment ritual felt very similar to the pressure to get a Bar/Bat Mitzvah, especially the weird pressure to go through with it regardless of what characters want. Not sure if the witches were meant Jewish-inspired force users but I kinda appreciated reading it that way.
I was honestly getting mormon baptism vibes from it, especially since the twins were eight years old at the time. I would imagine that sort of religious pressure is near universal though.
A very good read
Not an exclusively Jewish thing at this given that Catholic First Communions and Mormon baptisms are around that age as well
@@ismaelmullorruiz3556I got conformation into the Catholic Church vibes too. That’s my background though.
@@goosie8207 also mine as well!!
I have a theory on what actually happened. Mae started the fire in anger at Osha leaving and it spread. At the same time the Coven and the Jedi had a confrontation over Osha leaving with the Jedi. I suspect that both the Coven Mother and Sol were focusing on what Osha wants. She loves Osha and wants her to be Happy and Sol does not want Osha to be were she feels different. But someone else starts a fight, either the Jedi Padawan or their other mother andvit spirals out of control. Mae shows up distracts the coven leader who is killed by one of the Jedi, while during this Sol rushes off the save Osha sensing she is in danger. He misses the fight because of this, so he can only suspect what happened and may be in denial on the Jedi's role in it all.
I think this is probably the closest to what is going to turn out to be true. Although I cannot discount that the nameless Sith may be a part of the entire thing.
Nope. Its a fight club sixt sense twist. Osha and Mae is just 1 kid. Remember me please. I feel im alone calling this.
Can you give me props later on if i got it right?
When we see 2 kids, its a representstion of osha's mind. Everyone else sees one kid.
Maybe its 1 kid, 2 destinys.
When they use they/them pronouns, its to mislead is to think its 2 girls. But its nonbinary pronouns.
See how Mae is always hovering around. How is only OSHA pass the test they take Both girls. Why isnt MAE tested?
When Mae tells osha "ill have to kill you" she means the side that wants to be a jedi.
I mean RE: The ending issues brought up, and the immediate genocide of the coven. Leslye Headland mentioned that one of the inspirations for the show was Rashomon, so I’m inclined were still going to see quite a bit of that same event from different perspectives in one way or another, so not all a one and done.
I don't really think the coven is dead. I think they did a ritual to make the illusion for Osha and the Jedi so they would leave and have no reason to come back. I think that it worked on Sol but not on the others and they did something or they were involved in a different illusion that led to the death of Mei and/or some of the other witches. the part at the end with the tree will end up being part of Mei's illusion. It is possible that it is actually some of the remaining witches using the guise of the Jedi's biggest boogie men to enact their revenge.
That would be really clever
Yeah! I’m not clear on details, but I feel like there’s a whole dark side manipulation flashback episode coming where we see the dark sisters were used by the sith as well, and both them and the Jedi don’t know the whole story. Like there’s a third perspective or something. Everyone is an unreliable narrator sort of thing.
I would love to see some strong dark side magic but would prefer Star Wars to stay away from redcons I think
I like it, at least the first part of your theory, cause all of the community being sorta instantly-deaded despite, err, *all the witchcraft powers they got* doesn't seem to scan. Doesn't seem any scenario would have them going down so quickly and easily unless maybe 'magically' exhausted covering for some survivors, say. Can't imagine we won't see more flashbacks to explain a bit more as we go though.
Ooh, something like that would be cool! As I recall, Mother Talzan's group did a lot of illusion, which may or may not have been informing this group. It would kinda explain why the bodies looked like someone opened the console and typed killall
The power of one! The power of two! The power of maneeeeee!
(plz note, this is not a criticism of Jessie Gender or her role in pop-culture, it is just a semi-drunken rant- plz take it as such)
I can't believe the avalanche of vitriol this show is getting. This episode was f*cking RIVETING.
Yes, the acting is a bit stilted. Yes, some scenes drag on. Yes, messages about real world polly-tix are encoded in there. But, the story ITSELF has me intrigued as f*ck, you could swap out the race and/or gender of any single character (or group of characters) and I'd still be interested in the story. Just disappointed there wasn't a cool kung-fu fight sequence in this episode, but other than that I loved it. They're clearly trying to say BOTH SIDES ARE AT FAULT. The coven was paranoid, perhaps justifiably so, and the Jedi overreached, abusing their position of power/authority. If both sides had been more honest with each other (and, more importantly, *WITH THEMSELVES* y'see), the disaster could've been averted. THAT'S the IRL "political" message they're trying to tell here, IMO. "Maybe if everyone relaxed a little we could work this out".
I just wish ppl could distance their personal politics a little and evaluate the story-as-told without being distracted by who-played-who and which-character-is-which-race/gender/sexual orientation/offscreen individual human being. I know there's a lot of crossover (the venn-diagram can almost seem like a perfect circle sometimes) but this show is legit telling a VERY interesting story in the worldbuilding of Star Wars as a whole. I just wish more people could see that instead of just popping off with hottakes about IRL politics (as valid/prescient as those hottakes can be when made in good faith). Sometimes, **just sometimes,** we all gotta step back and remember these ppl are trying to tell **an interesting story** while also commenting on the "real world", y'know? We all need to maintain a balance, just like a Force User. Our personal politics and life experience can all too easily blind us to the human experience as a whole, to include something as "simple" as a good story. And perhaps the things that story might **REALLY** be trying to say.
If you read this entire rant, I thank you. Discuss if you'd like.
I've been looking everywhere for someone who likes the show and was able to word its actual qualities.
@@deadreset Hey thanks. It isn't "Andor" by any means, but it certainly isn't the "disaster" its detractors are making it out to be.
@@deadreset Some other places to look include Force Center, Star Wars Explained, and the following podcasts: Children of the Watch, Star Wars Sessions, Skytalkers, and Scoundrels Inc.
@@prosperoeaton8201 Generation Tech is also excellent, perhaps *the* most level-headed SW content creator out there. I highly recommend his channel.
If they really pull some kind of "oh, it looks like the Jedi were responsible for what happened to the witches but it was the Sith the whole time!" BS, I'm going to be so pissed with this show.
Do you really want the Jedi to be the bad guys or something?
@@KRobinson-ko1ne They kind of have to be. Since that one meditating guy was so guilt stricken he drank the poison willingly. He clearly did something terrible, otherwise it's just inconsistent writing.
Of course they’re going to be
@@CrabCrow Yes probably did & most likely under influence of Possession by Witchcraft 🤔 He still felt responsible so deeply that took his own life. So in literal terms it wasn't his fault, but felt deep guilt that was too much to handle. 😬 Enjoy streaming beautiful The Acolyte via D+ & share good word 🙂
@@KRobinson-ko1neThe Jedi don’t have to be mustache twirling super villains to be the “bad guys.” Like, you can be well intentioned and benevolent and still make mistakes.
That’s what happened in KotOR. The Republic was at war and the Jedi didn’t join in because something was fishy. They were right that there were machinations at play, but their hesitation got a lot of people killed.
But the Jedi literally said they aren’t there to snatch children and gave them a choice.
Honesty in old lore it was an honor but if the parents said no that was fine because without training the child’s connection to the force kinda atrophied for the most part.
Under the Disney rules where the force is just a mutant power with no training required there would have to be some kinda of regulation for empathetic , telepathic and telekinetic individuals that are hyper susceptible to losing control of these powers
THIS x1000. People don't realize that even Anakin, someone extremely powerful in the force only had somewhat superhuman instincts/reflexes when podracing. But his aptitude in the force basically stopped there without any ACTUAL Jedi training. If shmi would have said no, Quigon what be disappointed but he wouldn't and couldn't take a child that 1. didnt have permission from the family and 2. didn't want to be a jedi.
Well the issue is Every untrained Force user is a WMD one trauma away from destruction on a grand scale. In Swtor one of the main villains As a kid gets hits by a training sword too hard and she accidentally crushes the skull of 10+ guards in her moment of rage.
@@gamedude412 None of the TOR stuff is technically canon; it's just so far back it hasn't been contradicted yet. Nor is Force Unleashed or any more of the OP stuff from legends.
Force users aren't like Psykers in Warhammer 40K. If they were, the Jedi wouldn't refuse to teach anyone over 4 years old. What makes characters like Anakin and Mae/Osha dangerous is that they are trained to the point where their capacity to use the Force is dangerous but they have developed emotional attachments that makes them susceptible to the dark side.
@@joncarroll2040 I won't say that it's their emotional attachments that make them susceptible to the dark side. It's the fact that they weren't taught proper coping mechanisms or any ability to really reflect/become aware of how their emotions were affecting them. All I'm saying is that Anakin probably wouldn't have fallen if he'd been assigned a damn therapist!
@@gamedude412 that kid is literally being trained to use the force under the direction from the evil emperor.
This was a big improvement. I wish they had led with this episode, having a flashback feels unnecessary. Just start your story at the beginning. I was hoping Abi would have a more substantial role but hey, I'm sure we'd still be jumping for joy if she was a featured extra lmao
And yeah I agree that there's more than meets the eye here. There's no way that little fire Mae started burned down the whole place and killed everyone. Particularly since we already know from the previous episode that the Jedi have something to be guilty about.
Also side note, kids being told they're special their whole lives and having their entire future chosen for them definitely hits a nerve with me. At least Sol had the decency to ask Osha what she wanted.
It does finally feel like this is a show doing its own thing rather than being narrative filler like so many other Star Wars shows.
Loved the Identiteaze trailer, and YES PLEASE plug that shit whenever and whereever you can haha
See you next video,
Miranda
🔥🏹⚔🌩🤼♀🏳⚧
Getting the actual names right is important, if you care about the subject and content. I have always used flash cards to help whenever not sure of the details.
It really is important to get names correct and I am disappointed that this is a pattern but is always dismissed as no big deal.
BLACK LESBIAN WITCHES PARENTING AND LEADING A COVEN ON THE RUN FROM JEDI FORCE-COPS WOOOOOO!
No joke I fking love this for Star Wars. Our understanding of the Jedi was forced to evolve when we saw the Prequels and the Clone Wars, and this fits perfectly into the established universe.
Woohoooooooo 🥳🥳🥳🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
It's cool that they're doing that, but that's no excuse for the awful writing and acting. Just because they're doing a representation doesn't mean it's good.
My algorithm seems to love suggesting toxic SW reaction content. Glad you’re in there to balance it out.
That said, this wasn’t a great episode. I really want this concept to work though.
Yes! I'm using "don't recommend this channel" a lot!
In my quest to make myself explore alternative viewpoints I fully watched this video to understand various perspectives 👍
Hello, @Jessie. I have seen this week's episode and thought it was a little better IMHO than the first two, yet neither bad nor good still. Keep up the good work!
Honestly, I was most surprised that this is where the flashback episode is placed, so I wasn't surprised that certain things were obfuscated, because it feels too early to give us all those answers, given the type of show we are watching. It did feel weird to do this, but at least it did better fill out Osha's feelings, to better contextualize her confrontation with Mae in the previous episode.
I liked this episode, the tone and the look at Dathomiri-like (if not actually Dathomiri) coven, and I think Jodie Turner-Smith did a great job as Mother Aniseya, really emphasized for me that she'd be perfect as Storm, if she wants to be. It was really interesting to see the Jedi played off as less of the paragons of virtue (even if they don't go incredibly dark here), and to see more of the way they used to be. I think the twins were pretty good, but I had a hard time really differentiating the two for a while (which was Osha, which was Mae), though I did get it by the end of the episode. Sadly, I didn't notice Abigail Thorn, she was much less of a character than I'd hoped (which I guess is fair, she's not yet a big actress so she's gotta start somewhere, but it felt like there was hype/promotion suggesting something more).
That ending is definitely meant to give us just Osha's perspective, we're definitely going to get more sometime later (maybe when we'd normally get this flashback, near the end of the season). I won't be surprised if Mae or Mother Koril were involved in a conflict with the Jedi that led to a massacre (not saying they instigated, but that either or both characters were likely part of it), though I wouldn't rule out some of that "power of many" causing an issue (they attempted to use it and then Jedi did a thing which accidentally killed most/all of the witches in one fell swoop?). I am definitely left with questions, but I am not frustrated by it.
In fairness, the Republic most likely made the law that the Jedi could take force-sensitive children and train them in the Jedi arts so they couldn't become Dark-side/Sith. Didn't work, but I can understand the reasoning.
It's what it would be like if all babies in real life were tested to see if they would become a murderer/genocidal maniac. If babies could be tested for that then you can bet that governments would want them to be put on a different path.
Force sensitive children can never become Dark-side/Sith without training from a Sith or Jedi.
The Jedi accept force sensitive babies and they will never take children by force because of the trauma this will cause.
Trauma and attachment to family can lead to the dark side of the force.
Both of these children were older than Anakin Skywalker and they were not suitable to become Jedi due to their age and upbringing.
The Jedi Council did not accept the training of Anakin Skywalker until Obi-Wan Kenobi threatened to leave the Jedis and train him himself.
They thought Anakin was far too old and attached to his mother.
This would be a great series to release as a full season for binge-watching.
So far, it seems to be better than the buzz on social media suggests.
I agree with your criticism of the flashback nature of this episode while not showing what actually happened. If this was episode one or episode 6 (for example), I wonder if it would have felt better for flow. Time will tell once we see everything play out, though. Im personally really enjoying the show. It's not Andor, but it's better than Kenobi and Ashoka for me so far.
I was very disappointed with this episode, mostly due to the frustration that the events of this episode were already implied or outright stated in the previous two episodes. The Jedi child-snatchers could have been a more interesting concept but it was carried out with no subtlety at all. The idea is the Jedi think they're the good guys so you can't frame child abduction as overtly as they did without it making the jedi seem entirely unself-aware.
also the coven's force powers seem to come from speaking in rhyme, which once I noticed it made them seem like baddies from a cartoon.
I would guess that writing the Jedi as entirely un-self-aware is the point. Remember that line from the first episode, "The Jedi live in a dream that they believe everyone shares."
I agree that not everything that happened that night was shown in this episode, and I absolutely agree that it is confusing. Not in a good way; I'm not confused about the intent of the episode, nor about the sequences of events shown in it, but rather by the framing of it. If it was Osha telling her side of the story and then going to the flashback, that would frame it much better. But being presented as a stand alone episode, it just felt so out of place.
the comic is still cannon as far as I know but it was a vision vader had to manipulate him and it did not happen the way he saw in the vision so the actual event of the force making anikin is not really explained, but it is also cannon he is the ONLY one so adding 2 more force babies does break cannon anyhow
Got around to watching the episode finally, now my feed is getting populated by recommendations for 'review' videos with thumbnail blurbs that are all variations of, "And now 'The Wokes' have Finally destroyed Star Wars Forever and Ever and Ever and Ever."
In all honesty, I wish this should've been the very first episode of the series. I can understand the confusion of seeing the point of view of Osha, but later episodes will see the point of view of Mae. But for now, the theory it seems that the Jedi's did something to the convent.
I think that could have been much better. Maybe include the death scene from the first episode before cutting to the flashback episode.
yep the kids were twins IRL: the young versions of Mae (Leah Brady) and Osha (Lauren Brady),
You know the old saying: a rolling Moss gathers no knives...or something.
I don't think they are Dathomirans the Dathmiran sister hood was already a thing and kind of been a thing for. at least a 1000 years even before this. I think this is a separate sect. Part of Dathomiran practice is having male warriors around as breeding partners. I think the Dathomirans where inspired by Amazonian warriors from Greek mythology in.
I think so too. It felt like a different sect of force users that had similar vibes. The seen references in legends to other groups that were similar but not Jedi or Sith.
I feel like this coven is a predecessor to the Nightsisters in the same way that the Zensunni are a predecessor to the Fremen in Dune.
The Zabrak doesn’t look like she’s from Dathomir either; she looks Iridonian.
Agreed. Headland explicitly said in an interview that they are not Dathomiran.
THANKS for this!!!! It's getting better!!!!
I, too, enjoyed the good/bad vs. power comment!!!
(Thanks for explaining how queerness is multifaceted.)
And yes, ultimately last night's ep did feel like a battle of cults!!!
#RIPBenPotter #RIPComicstorian
I feel like im going insane reading all the commentry on this episode. We dont know how the fire spread and killed everyone? Yes, that is how television works. You watch and the answers are revealed as the story continues.
I actually loved this one but perhaps im biased as living in a commune of witches and threatening cops who want to ruin that with a bow and arrow is basically my anarchist dream.
My guess is one of the jedi overstepped thinking the twins were the ones from the stupid prophecy and tried to take them. That caused the witches to retaliate with something that went terribly wrong. Torbins guilt definitely points to the jedis being responsible for something that caused the deaths.
I liked the episode. I think it has some really good concepts but I think the execution might have suffered a little with the episode not having enough length for us to learn more about the witches.
Edit: thank you for giving this show a fair shake. I agree that this episode definitely has some presentation problems but there's some interesting ideas on display
They should have started with this episode. It would have made episodes 1 and 2 more impactful in terms of our connection to the characters and our understanding of the shows themes. It was a perfect introduction to those things while not telling you everything. Obsfucate as you said.
I think the show has been hindered by waiting till episode 3 to show us the emotional and thematic core of this show.
Also, personally I hope these aren't the Dathomir witches, one the Dathomir witches should already be a well established thing. We're only about 100 years before the original films. And two, I would like more diversity of dark side users, especially covens.
I think they were either a spinoff of the night sisters or just another group using similar language. I believe The night sisters are much older than this timeframe.
Is there a reason why this reivew (and episode 4) are not on Nebula?
The way Mother Quorel (sp?) says to her daughters "We just want what is best for you" is queer coding in the opposite direction: how heterosexual parents try to talk their queer children out of living openly
I'm glad I was suggested this video 😄
Great episode, the kids were great
I did have the obvious impression they're Dathomiri witches but not , it seems, the Nighsisters order/group per se. Like we saw in the Tales of the Empire bits. (their metaphor being 'threads' rather than 'ichor.' Also seemingly more earthy-crunchy than necromantic and aggressive. )
(Also the choice the High Priestess Mom offered didn't seem to be about a real binary view of the world at all, but they were basically presented with an ultimatum. Or felt they were. And the only choice for Osha was whether to go or expect everyone to defy those Jedi, that they expected to force a fight about it. Mae probably would have made the opposite choice even if she wasn't already oathbound. )
Reminds me of when Michelle Yeoh was killed off early on in Star Trek: Discovery.
Im pretty confident the coven is a completely different sect of witches, given that they all died. Also as per Ashoka there are nightsister ruins that predate this series. They could still be related to them but they seem pretty different, even if there are several Zabraks among them
The Jedi did something, Torbin's life was so affected that he eventually committed suicide. I like this show so far but it will suffer from the same thing other Star Wars shows suffer from, they don't give themselves enough time to tell the story.
I disagree that that's what is wrong with star wars. I tend to think it has to do with a bit of carelessness in the story telling. Sometimes it's lack of detail. Or too much filler time. Or, as you said, too little story time.
Maybe, but maybe not. If this mystery is all about perspective than what Torbin "thinks" happened may not even be how the actual events played out.
There no saber wounds And So far none of the jedi team have shown actual powerful force powers. Indara One force grip for the sake of the plot. Like there setup up Torbin gets taken over with the black eyes but I doubt Its going to be that much of a payoff. Like It seems like there going for " your killing him" no trust us everything pop off while Mae burns her sister to death in a locked room.
Which is why I’ll probably wait until the show finishes to hear what people think of the other episodes and if it’ll end good enough for it to be an overall satisfying experience.
This could go downhill where we’ll just end up with an overly numbing extended battle with the anonymous Master as our designated bad guy to fight against to avoid the interesting conflict we are seemingly setting up.
Or they can go hard with the conflict and explore in-depth how morally dubious Jedis can be and how our characters react to their organization’s shady history if done well.
Damn I wished we had a Movie called Torbius 2: It's Torbin Time
I don't think Abigail Thorne's character's dead though. Because she has a name, which suggests she has some level of importance. And considering the amount of screen time she had, I think we will see her again.
Not sure, she has a name on youtube and the queer community and this appearance could be seen as enough to capitalize on her cloud. I personally would love it to see more of her but don’t think so in this series
Having a name doesn't necessarily mean you live in Star Wars. Characters with dialog generally have names in order to be obvious to actors reading the script.
I think she's very much dead, but we will get to see her again in further flashbacks. As many other commentators have mentioned, we're going to see these events again from different perspectives.
Personally, I like my flashbacks to be spread throughout a series. Full flashback episodes just feel like they grind the plot I was invested in to a halt.
Especially as a weekly release. I was excited to see what happens next, and now I have to wait yet another week.
The incomplete flashback stuff wasnt a problem for me considering its only episode 3 of all things. I dont think there is a lot of sense to be made to spelling everything out now. Course I also watched a lot of flashback heavy shows like Veronica Mars, Arrow, The Leftovers, Once Upon A Time Etc so im very used to the story being teased but not fully fleshed out but I can get why that might seem frustrating to some people. Also personally enjoyed there was no framing device for the flashbacks that always seemed kinda silly to me anyways. This is also the first episode with a one word title and focuses on Osha so im sure later in the series, probably the penultimate episode as they share a director with this one, we'll get Mae's focus. Unsurprising the all female tribe that had fatherless births is getting review bombed to heck, the kid acting getting viciously insulted, and there's racially charged language a plenty so yeah pretty much any day in the Star Wars fandom
My issue with this episode (besides that it mostly reiterates what we already knew without framing it differently) is that there're so many things where I'm not sure whether it's the setup for a later reveal or just lazy writing/budget constraints. I'm sure at least *some* of those are setups, but since there already were some questionable chains of events in the first episodes, it just feels like choppy writing :/ I hope it will get better in retrospect.
Loved what we saw of the coven tho
I suspect this flashback had an unreliable narrator (Osha), idolising the Jedi and setting Mae up as the 'evil' twin.
I'm now expecting a second flashback from Mae's POV with the Jedi slaughtering everyone and with the truth being somewhere in between these extremes.
Amanda Sternberg plays both OSHA & Mai. she's a great actress.
This was the first time I felt a Star Wars show called out the Jedi for being gatekeepy over the Force, that they were the only ones able to wield the Force for good (of course I haven’t seen all SW properties). It’s interesting to see in the High Republic era the Jedi were so high on their own farts, that children couldn’t be taught to use the Force outside of the Jedi council, which implies they look down on all other religions.
As for the story at hand, yeah it was obvious that something had happened to the Coven, if they were fighting a fire they wouldn’t have all been so bunched up. Plus the framing on the ship hid Torbin’s face, even though you could catch a glimpse that this was when he was scarred, which I assumed. And while I kind of see what the writers are trying to set up it all feels a bit clunky, here’s hoping there are still a couple surprises/ secrets yet to be discovered (even though that dealer is 1000% Mae’s teacher).
Partly my observations, partly my own fanon filling in the cracks, YMMV...
1) Pre-Republic. The Jedi are just some obscure religious sect off in their monasteries in the Space Himalayas contemplating 'The Force' and figuring out you can do cool stuff with it. A sub-sect gets pissy about all the naval-gazing and wanna go out and do cool space-wizard shit, they get excommunicated and go on to find the homeworld of the Sith where they take over elevating themselves to god-kings and calling themselves 'Sith', the Jedi start their 'no attachments' rule presumably to prevent this happening again.
2) Old Republic. The Sith have started an Empire and are in conflict with The Republic. The Jedi have come-out of their temples to counter the Sith Empire's force-users, being granted authority under The Republic as 'Knights'.
3) High Republic. The Sith Empire has snuffed it, but the Jedi didn't go back to their monasteries and are still 'Knights of the Republic'. Presumably them being given monopoly over training of force-sensitive individuals is to prevent another Sith Empire from cropping up and wrecking house again, seems reasonable don't it?
4) Prequel era. The Jedi have been 'Knights of the Republic' for centuries now, still teaching the dogma of 'No Attachments'... buuuut, they're basically the Republic's military, police, diplomatic-corps and intelligence service now. How the hell is that NOT an immensely huge attachment?
The Jedi are obviously out to suppress non-Jedi force use because they think their training and philosophy are the only ways to cultivate the latent abilities of the Force Sensitive without them becoming drunk with power and falling to 'The Dark Side'... but the Jedi and Sith at a glance both Individualist philosophies, seeking the fulfilment of personal enlightenment or personal ambition respectively. The Force-Witch Coven has a more communal outlook and, like most tight-knit communities where everyone knows and trusts each other and thus encoded law is unnecessary, distinctions between light and dark are pointless to them.
I want a spice cream now. Spice side is way better than the dark and light sides.
I sort of grew up more reading the Jedi and Sith being Shaolin & Wutang🤷♂
had no idea this group existed until this week as some kind of other force user convent type group.
This episode was a little better than the last two. Still have some issues with the show itself, but I’m a little more on board. I might need to watch it again cause Abigail Thorn’s part felt very blink and you’ll miss it to me. As far as I know, she’ll have a bigger role to play in Identiteaze at least. 😅🩷 Yeah, Carrie Anne Moss is cool, despite the little screen time she’s had. Osha and Mae being twins is fine, even though I liked the idea they went with early on when it seemed like Osha had a spilt personality between being the Acolyte and former Jedi. Either way, I’ll still watch to see where it goes. How they’re portraying the Jedi as villains almost is what intrigues me the most.
I also rewound wondering what I missed about how the everything got on fire and exploding, but it seems like the show is nuanced enough that things are going to fall into place in an interesting and satisfying way I think. I just keep coming back to how there were all sorts of pacing and plot complaints early in Andor and then it ended up being so great. I'm really hopeful this will be similar. The way both sides manipulate the kids really resonates for me too with just how toxic and awful religion is.
I found the episode dragged on a little a could has worked better if the backstory was interspersed with the main story. My first thought was that May killed them but I’m not sure, and I think that’s the point.
I'm starting to think Mae is the future Darth Tenebrous, the master of Plagueis. She's in the right age range and her origin could've been the inspiration for his attempts to create and extend life with the Force. Yes, Tenebrous is a male Bith in the EU but they could easily charge that part.
It was awesome to Abigail. Hopefully we can get the truth on who did what with the fire and genocide in the next few episodes
Oh no here I go being a nerd but, this coven is NOT dathomir right??
If I’m not wrong the Dathomir witches have been around for a good while so this couldn’t be any kind of proto-version of them
Correct! The Zabrak looks Iridonian, as well. But yeah, this group wouldn’t be a predecessor, they’d be a contemporary. of the Dathomiri witches.
I had initially thought they were a precursor but I don't think the timing works as the Dathomiri were a lot older. More likely it's a case where the coven and the Dathomiri are two separate splinter sects of the same idea.
Since the EU was stopped so they could use aspects of it. There were other Force sects in existence. I would categorize this as non-dathomiri unless there is some information somewhere. As a zaberak force user or "thread user\weaver" doesn't instantly mean dathmerian origin.
If I am mistaken and there is an interview or screen info please let me know.
Good review, Jessie! I'm left with more questions after seeing this episode. I agree that it's weird to have a flashback episode
so soon. The toxicity of the Star Wars community is out in full force (no pun intended) regarding this episode."This is horrible.
This isn't Star Wars" etc. I liked the episode. My only complaint is that I felt it was out of place.
This review is probably as bad as the episode itself, and that's really saying something.
Internet outrage industry over The Acolyte is so annoying. Love this review.
No it’s justified
It’s Leslie headland trying to ride the wave that is this bullshit narrative of how Star Wars was somehow “saved in the editing” and therefore a masterpiece in spite of him. Its all so she can basically do what she wants regardless if her ideas conflict with George’s
Additionally, that comic panel is canon. It's from the 2016 Darth Vader series and that is part of current canon. The panel is about anakin viewing his past and all that happened. It doesn't necessarily mean that Palpatine made anakin. It could just mean that once palpatine learned about anakin, he had his eyes set on turning anakin into Darth Vader. Really I think you could interpret it as anakin seeing he had no choice but to become Darth vsder
Probably should point out the Witches aren’t related to the Dathomiran Witches (Night Sisters, Mountain Witches). Cause the Night Sisters already exist at this point, we even see mention of them in the High Republic comics (or it may have been the books.)
This Coven appears to be an entirely new creation. And I do find their views interesting…but I got a hard time trusting them given how most of them aside from Mother Aniseya keep treating the girls, especially Koril. Consistently deflecting Osha’s desires to leave, to do something else, her lack of interest in continuing the traditions of the coven. Trying to groom the girls to become the next leaders without regards to their own desires.
(Also the mention of how Mae and Osha were born…feels like there’s a chance a certain other Force group was potentially involved)
Loved getting to see Abigail though! And the view of the Force as a network of threads was interesting.
Great Job
I believe anywhere with fire was Mae's fault. Anywhere with no fire, the Jedi killed those Force Witches.
Even though the Jedi don’t kill people unless it’s an immediate life or death situation
George was practically breaking the fourth wall having characters like Luke and Anakin point that out
I enjoyed the episode. I do agree weird place to put it, was not expecting to see it as the third episode. Also Kudos to your friend for being the show. I definitely felt those queer vibes as I watched this. Much more to learn and understand. Good discussion on this.
the Darth Vader comic actually is canon, but the writer has said that the panels have been misinterpreted. the idea is more that the force itself created Anakin, and Palpatine and plageus (palpatines master) took advantage of that. in the panel itself you can even see that Anakins mother is already pregnant by the time palpatine starts messing with things.
Could we see Nightsister resurrection which triggers the Jedi to erase the abomination??? Also - I'm guessing this in an episode we'll need to re-assess when we've finally got the whole story. I think you're right that there's a lot of good ideas here, but they failed to 'hit it out of the park'. They didn't nail the 'binary sunset' moment, like Luke Skywalker ain't going to be farmer, Osha ain't going to be a witch. And she was a little to quick to want to become a Jedi. I wonder if it iwould have been better if curious Osha had discovered the Jedi and had a positive interaction with them....??
So we aren't going to talk about the [Darth Plagueis] Lore-break here; and what it implies?
I admit I am more of a Trekkie, but still love Star Wars too, and so maybe when I watch these shows I can just enjoy the story. I am interested in seeing how it progresses and sometimes people need not to complain about everything. Even in Trek when people do it I’m like come on. But when people say how it is the death of Star Wars and things like that it really is not necessary. If you don’t like it then you don’t have to watch. Go back to the shows you did enjoy and rewatch them. I haven’t loved all of the new Trek but I know I am gonna watch it. Not every slice of pizza is the best but if I am offered a slice I am gonna eat it ❤🖖
I like this new series, all the other reviews seem intentionally negative. This show is not perfect but it’s worth trying! I’m still interested
I thought this episode to be ok - which, for 20 million an episode, should count as a fail.
And I agree, everybody was pulling on the girls without much regards for their interests.
And I like the idea of a third party being responsible for most of the deaths in the Coven.
But I also must disagree, Jessie. Star Wars was always binary in their Good versus Bad approach. Read again the Film Crawl for A New Hope. It's full of words like "evil Galactic Empire", "Empire's sinister agents" and "restore freedom". The original movie was carefully designed to stiffle any discussion on who were the good guys and who were the bad guys.
Yes; Star wars has always had a good versus bad binary - thats why I like thsi show for breaking that binary down.
@@jessiegenderafterdark5287 Fair enough.
But I think the credit for first breaking away from this good/ bad polarizatioin should go to Andor.
Maybe Mandalorian?
This episode is a great one whole flashback episode at once nazordielx from Book of Boba Fett.
Where everything necessary is well illustrated, especially for those SW noob fans.
They understood about Mae and Oshia, their past, their opinions, their destinies and their beliefs that drive them.
The comic panel was never strictly canon. The author has said it was Vader wondering about his own origins.
I believe that the canon story is that the Force spontaneously creates Anakin becaus of Plaguis' (not Palpatine's) experiments with using the Force to influence the Midichlorians to create life.
It does feel like there is a connection here. Assuming that Mae's master is an authentic Sith, you can draw the line between them and Plaguis.
Living for all the witch rep
Who were the other trans characters in Star Wars? Hell I wouldn’t have known Abigail Thorne was trans and who she was until you’ve mentioned her… whether that’s a tribute to how cis she looks to me… really doesn’t matter! Good for her for getting even a minor part in something Star Wars! I would love a minor role speaking or non in anything nerdy like this haha!
The animated show Tales of the Empire shows that there were other covens of Dathomir other that the Night Sisters, They briefly show a Nomadic group of woman that reside in the Moutains of Dathomir. They are a pacifist group from what it seems and they use defensive force abilities to protect themselves and not witchcraft.
This episode really game me the Ick. I just found the subtle manipulation from Sol to Osha where he was telling her what she wanted to hear was very uncomfortable, it felt like a Religious Leader Manipulating and child for indoctrination. This just made me Dislike the Jedi Order way more then I've already have.
Mantlepiece for the mantlepiece god!
I don't really like episodes that are flashbacks in their entirety, especially when they put the forward momentum of the story so far to a halt. I think this episode had good ideas but wasn't executed very well.
I don't think the show really made us understand why Osha wanted to become a Jedi. It was clear she didn't want to be a witch in the coven but what specifically drew her to want to be a Jedi so badly? It would've been nice if they had her express admiration for the Jedi ways or had her try to reason like a Jedi when opposing Mae.
I believe it was stated that they have the right to test, not to take. Though i disagree that the Jedi Order are an arm of the Republic. They sre generally aligned yes, until the clone wars, bit the Jedi Order is a separate thing.
I never believed that Mae killed her family. I felt like the Jedi did
This will violate how the force works.
Jedi cannot do evil things like this without being drawn to the dark side of the force. They would either become dark Jedi or Sith like Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) and Count Dooku.
She probably didn't. Zabrak woman / Entity / Possessed Jedi(s) killed the Witches. 🤔 Good times when streaming beautiful The Acolyte via D+ 🧘♂
I do think it's great that they, the show-runners, are giving critical fans like me something we've been asking for since Rise of Skywalker: an objective look at the Jedi as they existed within the political landscape of the Republic. I think the thing that this series does well (that coincidentally is the source of some of the vitriol) is that it challenges the reduction of the Force to Jedi vs. Sith, and deals with the colonial elements inherent to how the Jedi are represented in earlier works, particularly the Prequel Trilogy.
Thank you! I know your content because you help enlighten me to the LGBTQ elements I miss. I missed every bit of the coding, the "Queerness" and "Otherness" of the coven.
I’ve enjoyed the show so far, though I did wonder a bit how OSHA knew about the Jedi, none of the training or speeches seemed to mention them directly, so why did OSHA want to be with them so much?
Also, the way they said “many” in the ceremony was weird.
But I have liked it so far, I feel like a lot of the complaints have come from people who don’t understand how mysteries work.
Who does Abigail play in this show?
She played one of the coven. I missed her too until I saw a picture on Twitter from her account. Honestly, I thought she'd have some lines, unless I missed them. Bit of a shame there. Hopefully we''ll see her again in the show ;)
She had like 6 or 7 Lines, after the twins and the mothers, she had the most lines of any coven member. @@jeremyadler9620
I went back to find her. She had one line urging Sister Koril to calm down. That may have been it, but I might have missed more.
She had 6 or 7 lines
@@jessiegenderafterdark5287 Apparently I did miss more. Oops! Sorry about that.
I’ve really liked the show so far. Something tells me it’s what Sol said in ep.1, you cannot trust your eyes. Are the witches dead? And Sol…where did he come from in the first place during the “fire”. The fire started and the next thing, he’s there trying to save the girls. Back in episode 2 he tells OSHA not to give up on Mae. Why would he say that? Then in ep.1 he tells his padawan he saw Mae die but believes OSHA immediately when she tells him that she’s alive. And for the certain “UA-cam SW channels” that are hating on this show because it’s not George Lucas SW, I guess you hate Mara Jade, Thrawn, Yuuzhan Vong and Mando as well. I started out as a Jedi fan back in ‘77 but… The Clone Wars show and Mace Windu🤬. The absolute bullshit he and the Council told Ahsoka about it being her Jedi “Trial”when they accused her of blowing up the temple. From that point on, they were known as “Jedi scum” to me. So now you can see all the prequel nerds having a fit over “The Acolyte” because, “they’re ruining my childhood”🤓. I don’t read a book with 30 chapters in it and stop 3 chapters in saying, I know the whole story. Let the show and it’s story play out. Love your reviews Jesse! Best of luck with Identiteaze. And remember, the Jedi scum don’t believe in luck either.
with this series the jedi come off as child abducting groomer police and id say the series upholds that haha
I more read that group as more of some kind of Force Convent thing. Since the jedi were sort monks and stuff, but not being all male and stuff.
also was not aware this was set up for some other group. Haven't seen the Ashoka series yet. 😅
I think i sort of recall hearing about some group called The Sisters in the Legends run from either The Thrawn Trilogy or that sequel Duology. I think there was some character that was part of some sort of group that was supposed to kill off one of the main characters, but joined in on the action and maybe got a few of her sisters to help out or something. i forget the details, it's been years since i listened to that book. 😅
I think it’s hard to really review a mystery series as it’s airing. So many things that are frustrating now could lead to satisfying payoff by the end or could completely go no where. I’m trying to keep as much of an open mind about storytelling elements until the finale where I can judge the story as a whole.
Don’t want to break bubbles but there’s been other mysteries shows take Sherlock or even Stranger things (had mystery in season 1) which kept us on our toes while giving us consistent and good reasoning how and why happened.
It sucks but I don’t think this is going to be good or great. Maybe okay in the end, I hope, but I’ll admit as a mystery lover this is pretty disappointing :-/
@@zarbonianClaims that you can make a good serialized mystery,
Cites Sherlock and Stranger Things.
@@fionn_mac_ribs …. While you were being rude…Reptile, Netflix. (Drops mic)
@@fionn_mac_ribs but also I named things top of my head. Bad with names so forgot about reptile. Great movie btw
Another possibility is a Jim Jones kind of situation.
Having been raised in the Mormon church, I have an instinctive distrust of how cults use persecution complexes to isolate the people within them, claiming that they were oppressed just for believing differently while sweeping the actual reasons under the rug. There are plenty of Force religions in the galaxy, even dark side religions like the Nightsisters, which are allowed to exist without Jedi interference. So why are the Brendok coven the exception? Why did they get "exiled" in the first place? We see them as innocent because Osha does, but she was raised on the inside.
Also it may be a coincedence, but Aniseya's "this isn't about good or bad, it's about power and who is allowed to use it" kinda reminds me about Thrawn's "Who deserves it doesn't matter. What matters is who has power." line from the Rebels finale. I don't trust anyone who claims that power is more important than morality.
Couldn't find review of ep 3 or 4 on nebula so am just letting you know.
I think the Jedi were “tricked” into killing the Coven but it didn’t take much for them to commit genocide because they clearly already believe their cult is the only right way of the Force and all other ideas of the Force are inferior or need to be destroyed. I wouldn’t be surprised if they convinced themselves that the Coven was just evil and needed to die without agitation from a provocateur. I also believe one of the witches was already more agreeable to Sith style dark side Force use. Or maybe even a Sith infiltrating the Coven. Light and Dark is all just the different religions of the Force perspective
The Jedi don’t wipe out other force users
They keep tabs on them so they don’t do anything destructive but that’s it
There’s no monopoly on the force: the Jedi simply serve the force
Maybe they lost their way serving the Republic but essentially serving the force is what they essentially do
No "rage" postings on your site. I am happy.
Yeah, the 'choice' the mother was offering is going to be shown to be false in the final reveal, I think. To me It's pretty clear that, rather than due to the fire Mae started, the destruction of the coven was caused by witches and the Jedi clashing over the taking of Osha. I'm pretty sure it will be shown to have been the coven who attempted to murder the Jedi to make the whole thing go away.
I hope I'm wrong about this though. What I hope the 'big reveal' is going to be is that the coven actually agreed to let Osha go, but felt pushed to take action due to the Jedi trying to take BOTH girls. The seeds for this have already been sown - Carrie Ann Moss's character already told them that training children was forbidden, so it stands to reason the Jedi would want to shut the whole thing down regardless of Osha's personal choice.
To be remotely satisfying, this show needs to end with the Jedi having a lot of blood on their hands due to their own actions and choices.
The sith have been around for thousands of years at this point, but they’ve been in hiding for about 900 years. It possible, I guess, this group believes they’re reviving the order.
But given that they seem to believe in not manipulating the force (even though they clearly do manipulate events) I don’t think they’re related to the sith.
Following the queer allegory, the removal of kids from their parents is very on the nose too.