The thing that bothers me about Stolitz is how their relationship was retconned into "they knew each other as kids" and Stolas is now a sad uwu boy instead of a powerful, villainous demonic entity. I miss when both characters were awful people and awful to each other. There could've been so much nuance and character growth to these two.
My biggest issue is the way they made Stolas a completely innocent good guy. Even excluding the pilot he was morally wrong at times, like when he treated his daugther poorly, made that deal with Blitzo and cheated on Stella. They either retconned or ignored all of that up until now and it's tbh so annoying, I highly prefered the morally ambiguous Stolas rather than the "uwu poor angsty tragic boi" Stolas.
@@brianawong312 I mean, they DID do that. Kind of. Stolas was morally ambiguous, but then they just kinda retconned it or at the very least heavily excused it.
I don't like how they made Stolas be in his 30s just so the "love at first sight when they were kids" trope could happen. He's based on an actual demon from mythology that humans irl wrote about a long time ago, so I figured he'd be hundreds or maybe thousands of years old. I just got that vibe during the first season. Even Lucifer's daughter is supposed to be around 200 years old (unless that got retconned) so it feels kind of weird
@@Rey_Palpatine I agree! His age should have at least been explained. A popular fan theory is that Stolas isn't the only Stolas, but a legacy or a title in a sense. If you take on the grimoire and duties of Stolas you become "a Stolas". If they at least gave us some kind of explanation why he is so weirdly young it would have been great tbh. Also jeez, sorry for my harsh words, but screw the "Love at first sight as kids" trope. It sucks and it is kind of weird to me- I thought their relationship was supposed to be a "an awfully toxic relationship with weird power imbalances, but they actually fall in love and work on fixing it" and adding that "child love on first sight" angle adds nothing?? Come on, it was so unnecessary and just makes me cringe.
@@helion_ut I just remembered this, but Stolas being so young is also kind of funny bc some of the lyrics in his songs make it seem like he's supposed to be "over the hill" or something. Really bro, all your stories have been told, except for one, when you're not even middle aged by human standards yet?? And that song was in a flashback when Octavia was way younger so he was probably in his 20s there, if he's in his 30's currently. Even the song in season 2 episode 1 has lines about him showing his age, and things all of a sudden being exciting again. Imo, those feel more like sentiments that would be expressed by someone who has lived for _many_ years. And I agree, the dynamic was more interesting before it was revealed that Blitzø and Stolas met as kids. It seems like it was just an easy way out to make the relationship look more wholesome and tell the audience "see, it's not just freaky sex in exchange for the book, there's an innocent and cute foundation underneath, look at them being adorable little kids together"
Stolitz as a relationship lost me at them having met as kids, to a point I like to pretend that it never happened. Their dynamic was so much more interesting without that detail.
I honestly think it would've just been better that they met each other as adults making transaction contract for the book (permitted to enter the human world) etc. Sure, childhood to lovers trope is okay. But I just don't like it when it comes to Stolitz, yknow?
The worst thing is they shove it into our faces they're friends, no only STOLAS views it as that and that camera shot going in circles was a pitiful attempt to have me think they're having fun, Viv seriously thinks we're idiots if we cannot understand that Blitz was just using him to get the stash of expensive items in Paimon's Palace and didnt care for him and just because he says he'd hire him, does not mean it is a promise or would stay as that.
After watching hazbin, I thought this too, and it’s really strange that they coexist in the way they do, portrayed as they are by the same creator 😭???
@@samflood5631 no, Valentino has had zero scenes where Viz or the writers have tried to make him sympathetically (as of episode 4). Heck, in the old insta account he killed a dog and cracks vox's screen/face, he's a villain through and through who just happens to act whiny sometimes
I hate to say this, but I feel like the only reason people ignore the unbalanced power dynamic, sexual coercion, sexual harassment, and classism is because it’s a gay ship. It’s the same thing with the Catradora ship between Adora and Catra. People will excuse blatant physical and psychological abuse because it’s an LGBT ship. I get it, not a lot of representation is given to homosexual relationships in comparison to heterosexual. That shouldn’t excuse the ignorance towards these problems though. If this were a heterosexual pair partaking in one-sided sexual harassment and sexual coercion, people would be pointing out the obvious.
hm idk I still ship two characters from another show that ended up toxic and I probably shouldn't ship them but I still do and they are both straight so maybeee but not in my case. I got so used to LGBT relationships that I see nothing strange about them or anything more special from the standard straight couples. also the one that turned toxic was the woman so idk if that changes anything but now I am jumping on the topic of sexism 💀lol I am sleepy Imma sleep
I disagree tbh, there are plenty of straight relationships in other media that are also pretty toxic but are treated as normal, take the twilight saga for example. What I think actually happens is that most of the fans of helluva boss are still young, hormonal teens, that end up ignoring the obvious problematic behaviours because they find the way this pairing is framed 'hot', or whatever.
I agree with your point but disagree on Catradora, because, while it's not my OTP or anything, I do think that they handled the abuse and messiness with nuance and with all the cards on the table. Redemption os a loaded word so I will say growth and accountability. Catra was a victim and an abuser and its okay and good to depict her learning and changing. She isn't a Saint, but I do think that where they end up by the final season is a good place. If they got together before that, I would agree.
I agree, although there are still some m/f ships that exist and ARE toxic. BL ships still usually take the brunt of it e.g some people still think Killing Stalking is a gay romance when it’s literally just a straight man sexually and non-sexually abusing a gay man Edit: Grammar Edit Edit: I only brought up m/f ships because other people were saying they also had toxic ships
Fully agree. As a gay person it's lowkey gross and normalizes these unhealthy dynamics. Stolitz alone seems incredibly stereotypical and fetish-y as well.
I've created a writing rule: If changing the gender of characters makes your story seem weird and toxic, it may indicate that your story is already toxic. Imagine if Blitz were a girl facing constant discrimination , forced to have sex with a powerfull man to maintain her business and, in the same time, that man is cheating on his wife and neglecting his daughter because of you. Doesn't it resemble a toxic, Wattpad-like YA romance? While I enjoy Helluva Boss and Stolits, it's worth acknowledging that if the characters weren't a gay couple, less people would be rooting for them. Edit : After watching the last episode (season 2 episode 8) I wanted to say that I really liked what Viv did with Stolitz. They really needed that talk and to take some time appart to then maybe have a healthier relationship. I have hope that Stolitz will finaly become good
YES. THATS THE POINT. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE WEIRD AND TOXIC TO SHOWCASE THE GENUINE FLAWS THESE TWO CHARACTERS HAVE SO THEY CAN GROW. ESPECIALLY STOLAS. Like this kind of relationship is toxic either way and is only seen as good by people who haven't yet realized the IMPLICATIONS of what stolas is doing. like go watch season 1 again with this mindset and you will slowly see stolas going from constantly talking abt sex, to flirting and pet naming, to showing genuine care for blitz, to ACTUALLY REALIZING HOW FUCKED UP THIS ALL WAS when he basically blackmailed blitz into sex. This was never about it being a gay couple, its about the toxic environment and situations you get put in when blackmailed by someone of higher power than you, regardless of their motives.
That isn't too surprising since the creator probably grew up on watt pad fics and tumblr too, and probably never realized how weird and toxic some of it's themes were.
The show would be so much better if Stella wasn’t cartoonishly evil. Helluva Boss literally screams that she didn’t want this either. But why would a female/fem presenting character have any depth in a Vivziepop show?
Never thought about fem/female characters being not as filled with depth as others. I wonder if that's a personal trauma/issue with Viv herself if she struggles with it. It can be easier to work through problems if you do so through the lens of something less close to home. I don't think Luna is written in this way, but I know people have had issues with Moxxie. I think Charlie and Vaggie are interesting, but aren't a healthy dynamic as they're made out to be, though, they don't have to be, because they could grow and create a healthy one.
I thought it was cute and funny at first, and I hoped we could see how they first met and fell in love... but when the moment came, the writers kinda fumbled it a bit. The uncomfortableness for me came from how horny he was for blitzø when he was around his daughter.
-Okay I commented that stuff before I watched the whole vid, and now that I saw the whole video, I got some of those criticisms right, but I really didn’t realize how uh... bad the relationship actually was. I now realize I had rose tinted glasses on. 😭
We all need to accept that the only reason EVERYONE IN THE FANDOM ships and roots for stolitz is because its a gay ship. A man is cheating on his wife and neglecting his daughter but fans all normalize it because he's cheating with a man. If stolas was cheating with a woman, everyone would hate him and possibly the woman too and they wouldn't hate on his wife as much. As much as his wife is a villain and quite frankly a bitch, she has the right to be mad, people seem to ignore that...
For real though, I like Stolitz but when it comes to ships, it's nothing new when women are demonized for getting in a ship or she's labelled as the "b*tch" I'm a guy and I don't like the treatment about women when it comes to "Fujoshis".
Can we also talk about how the whole I.M.P business thing was completely replaced by this trash ? "Helluva Boss" makes no sense anymore, this is just a toxic relationship sitcom. "Helluva Bastard" would be more fitting imo.
exactly! it’s started to go down hill i mean yeah some of the episodes where it’s not focusing on the assassin business are kinda interesting but it would be fun if they made a couple more episodes of them doing their job
My main issue with this entire Stolas cheating on Stella situation is that Stolas is WAY more at fault for Stella’s rage and behavior than anything. But the show glosses over it and is all like “Oh look at this bitchy lady screaming 'cause her husband cheated on her”. I’m only saying this because we haven’t seen much of Stella (another writing issue) but Stella and Stolas seem to at least TOLERATE each other before Blitzo came in. She and Stolas had a child. The show in the first season made it look like they at least had cute moments together without romance, but they switched in the second season without explanation. From Stella’s perspective, she tried her hardest to be at least a decent wife and Stolas was trying to be a decent husband. Stolas cheating on her out of the blue ruined everything. It embarrassed the entire family and in her perspective, it’s a fate worse than death in the high-class world. And the writers could let us have empathy for her and her situation. This is how it could’ve been if the show stuck with the first-season portrayal. And it was thrown out the window in season 2 for a villain that the writers try too hard to make the audience dislike. She didn’t have much going for her in season 1 and they could’ve made her an interesting abusive character with justifiable anger but not behavior. But they want us to root for Stolas for the wrong reasons. Her writing issues connect to that of Blitzo and Stolas and it’s a shame a dynamic like this is so poorly written and mixed up. No matter who you root for or what your opinion is on these characters, you have to admit it feels very thrown together and rushed. All of these characters are made to either be disliked or liked by the audience and it makes them too simplified and/or predictable. EDIT I say this in the nicest way possible: For those of you talking about season 2, read my comment again carefully. I’m not saying that she isn’t abusive either. But her anger is justified. The way some of y’all are so mad about my opinion and personal take is crazy. If you don’t like the comment, just don’t reply. Dislike it for all I care.
Honestly, so true. I think it’s made even worse when you consider the fact that Stella was probably just as forced into marriage as Stolas was, and her entire job and purpose is to essentially just be a walking womb and birth an heir. Stolas, at least, has a job that he does, but Stella is very much relegated to just being high-class arm candy whose entire purpose has been already filled. It sucks that the writers aren’t even making an attempt to show things from her perspective and instead exaggerate her into a cartoony misinformed caricature of what they think an @bus3r is so that Stolas looks good in comparison. :’D
I totally agree with that, i would Just add that Stella was already a Bit behaving Like that, Like in Season 2 Episode 1 there is a Picture of Stella as a Kid where She is raging, and (i think in the Same Episode, could be a different one though) She is trying to Hit Stolas, right after he wanted the divorce and it Looks Like it was Not the First time, but thats Just speculation. Maybe She Just aged Out of the rage Thing mostly and Stolas cheating on her Unleashed that again.
Okay true but we all forget the elephant in the room Stella LIKES making stolas miserable even when he's gone out of his way to give them a comfortable life, as so put so elegantly by stolas "this women has never given 2 shits about me" and I highly doubt she cares about her own daughter. So let's not be so quick to dismiss the bad things Stella has done
That is true, but often in arranged mariage the married rarely love each other, plus we learned that in the episode '' the circus '' Stolas did not like Stella, neither did she, at the '' not divorced party '' SHE called him pathetic, and that was before he cheated on her, in other episodes, it is also mentioned by stolas "that this woman never gave two sh1ts about him or they're mariage" wich mae sme think that they never appreciated each other, and, that ''whole child'' wasn't born from their love or mariage but Octavia was born for one reason, to enhirit the lead of the Goetia's. I do like seeing Stella's character but i feel like fans really sugarcoat the whole situation, Stolas shouldn't have cheated on her, but she doesn't care, she just want to make him miserable, and if she always was like this, knowing that Stolas prefers men (especially Blitz) he has acte dlike everything was fine when she (Stella) seemed the same b4 the whole situation. So yes, it is partially true, but with all those elements we know that Stella was a bad person from the start, so yes we did see earlier "cute moments" such has family portraits, were neither of them smile, making me think they only tolerated each other but nothing more. Hope it's understandable haha, english isn't my first language
People call Stella a b!tch and a sh!tty wife, yet Stolas is literally the same thing as her. He cheats on his wife and more than half of the show thinks it’s okay. Like imagine being cheated and your husband/boyfriend doesn’t feel bad at all for it. I would be pissed just like Stella. Yes Stella trying to kill Stolas isn’t the best idea but he brought it down to himself. And he seems to be just as ignorant to his daughter as Stella (if she even is ignorant towards Octavia) Stolas literally broke his family and is making his daughter even more depressed. Like he literally made her uncomfortable at Loo Loo Land yet he still hasn’t learned his lesson. I don’t get why he has to do this. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an episode where Octavia actually lets out her anger at him.
i hate how they twisted stella, making her unredeemable asshole, even though in the start of the series she was genuinely upset at stolas cheating and octavia said in one of the earlier episodes that they didn't hate each other until stolas cheated. they completely retconned this in favor of making stolas a GOOD guy. look at him, he's right for cheating, she's awful and unhinged and dumb! this trope of "a horrible bad bad woman is in the way of cute little gay couple" already got old and is extremely misogynic.
When was it confirmed by the canon that Stella wasn't a horrible person? We were never shown anything other than her being angry/vindictive. In her first appearance it's clear that she isn't really mad about Stolas' betrayal (it wasn't "you cheated on me! how could you disregard our relationship?"; it was "you fucked an IMP and made us look bad"). Stella is a noble who wants to keep up appearances. Octavia's line about her parents not hating each other does not do Stella any favors because it's later confirmed that Stolas was actively bearing with Stella's abuse so that Octavia could have an illusion of peace/normalcy. If at some point Stella and Stolas genuinely didn't hate each other, then the writers would have SHOWN that dynamic via a flashback. It really wouldn't have been hard to include little scenes that made Stella more redeemable, but the writers didn't do that which clearly indicates they always intended for her to be a complete asshole. They had an arranged marriage and they were never emotionally commited to each other. So no, Stella isn't a retcon. It may not be the route you prefer, which is valid. I would definitely enjoy an alternate version of the show with Stella being more nuanced. But, simply preferring a different interpretation is not the same as claiming retconning. As for Stolas now being the unambiguous good guy, that's also not true. The show makes it clear that Stolas still made a mistake by cheating. It put strain on the household and negatively impacted Octavia. What he should have done was divorce Stella as soon as Octavia was born. Stella being a complete villain does not absolve Stolas of all blame, and the show knows that.
@@gigachad3925 in the flashbacks (which were shown later in the series, remind you), it's clearly shown that stella yelled at stolas and abused him from the very start, even in front of other people. how would octavia think that her parents didn't hate each other in that case? why would stella pretend if she's so evil and stupid? she never tried to hide it in the first place. it would be ooc for her to act nice to stolas in front of octavia, since in flashbacks she only thinks of her as an egg she needs to produce and clearly doesn't love her. stella and stolas even slept in the same bed in the start of the series, but after that one time they quickly made stolas sleep in a separate room with no explanation.
@@vodach3357 In said flashbacks, Stella was shown to have more of a blunt/dismissive attitude toward Stolas directly. It's clear she didn't like him but didn't really want too much time interacting with him. She didn't yell about him or get extremely mean until drunk while talking to other people, notably while Octavia wasn't present. She was always insulting and passive agressive, but she didn't become so extremely antagonistic to Stolas directly until he slept with Blitz, and thus threatened their reputation by having sex with an imp. Obviously she wasn't ever trying to pretend to be nice, but the more subdued dynamic we saw in the flashback isn't that hard for Stolas to mask for Octavia's sake. All he had to do was play off her insults and not escalate.
@@gigachad3925 so you're saying octavia saw her mother regularly insult her father and her reaction was "they get along so well!" only because stolas didn't say anything back?.. i don't see how it makes sense
Viv NEEDS more competent writing. I used to really love her stuff (die young fans rise up) but it genuinely feels like her leaning into fanservice territory is killing this series rapidly. I know fans will continue to eat this stuff up but more and more people are (rightfully) criticizing some of her dogwater character choices. I straight up couldn't finish some of the newer episodes just bc of the fact she backtracked HARD on characters personalities, experiences, and relationships. The whole loona thing gets on my nerves more than anything. There's also the issue of the overuse of vulgar humor in an attempt to seem more "mature" or "funny". Many ppl try to defend this by comparing it to family guy which.. doesn't work. FG doesn't take any stories or characters even an ounce seriously, it's there solely for comedy. Viv, on the other hand, *wants* you to care about these characters and flesh out their plots. But that doesn't work when you start retconning genuine developments for bs fan pandering nonsense.
To be fair, sometimes it's fun to watch a trash fire. Drama is entertaining. So even if it's not a healthy ship, it's fun to watch anyway. it is also possible that Viv or the writers themselves don't know what a healthy relationship looks like and/or it's not even their intent. You can ship two people or more who absolutely are toxic because it creates drama. Especially given that none of these people are real, it's relatively harmless, so long as people understand it's fantasy and there are so many red flags. Red is a fun color to look at from a safe distance where no one is actually being harmed.
@@vixxcelacea2778 The problem is when all the characters back stories and/or plots revolve solely around daddy issues and relationships. Problematic or flawed characters aren't really an issue in fictional media, in fact it's nice to see flaws in otherwise perfected spaces.. but when the creator is very clearly showing the fact she's never known a strong father figure & projecting it onto nearly EVERY character so far, that's an issue. It's only fun when it's occasional, not when it occupies the entire plot space and screen time of every. single. character. every. single. episode. Besides that, the characters that aren't rife with daddy and relationship issues (ie Millie) are made bland and boring bc Viv can't stand to write interesting and healthy characters lmao
one of my biggest criticisms of the show has been "stolas is exalted to be someone above criticism because he is a sad gay british boy and everyone is mean to him". i hate that both writers and fans alike want people to pity him and baby him so badly, when he isnt even a good person, husband, or father. he would be so much more interesting if the team LEANED INTO the fact that he's a bad person, instead of shaping the plot around how "sad good boy" he is. also im glad someone else sees what i saw from truth seekers. that dream sequence? i dont know how people watched that and thought "omg blitz loves stolas!!!" HUH??? hes in chains, on his knees, and frowns when stolas pulls him close. i also dislike how they kind of took stella and just made her abusive for no reason? just to make stolas look like the good guy ? ?? ? ? like im no stella sympathizer, but wouldnt she be more interesting with actual nuance..? i dont know. im all for exploring toxic or weird relationship dynamics. i love it, in fact. but the writers seem to want to justify stolas' abuse constantly.
Not to mention that Stolas has the nerve to abandon his royal responsibilities just so he can force himself on Blitz, or have Blitz force himself on the Prince. If Stolas was made King, the Pride Ring could be left in a terrible state since he would spend most of this time sleeping with Blitz instead of ruling Hell. At least Stella would have been a more competent queen since she’s the kind of person who would put her family aside and focus on what’s best for her demons. Sure she’s a stuck up noble, but so are most monarchs and aristocrats.
$10 says they pull a "Starco" and establish these new characters for them and make the relationships good for them, then completely undo everything in 1 episode so the 2 most people ship end up together.
I gotta be real, I think that the problems with Stolitz are as a result of inconsistent writing. Viv said herself that Stolas was written as a villain in the pilot and early episodes, but when she asked Brandon Rogers if Stolas and Blitz would be a cute couple, he said yes, thus it was changed. And because of this, I think that they didn’t really know how to accommodate for it going forward. I will say that the new music video does make some earnest attempts to clean up the writing, with Stolas acknowledging that he’s in the wrong for using Blitz in such a manner (hence the line ‘I know better now I must give you this choice’ and him asking Asmodeus for a crystal so Blitz won’t rely on his book), but it still feels cluttered. I just think that if you’re gonna change an important facet of a relationship, that transition should be more natural, not wedged into the plot last minute. And this is coming from someone who likes the show. I anticipate what they do in the next episode, one that’s supposed to be centered on their relationship.
I was wondering why exactly I felt a little iffy about Stolitz rather than invested in it like other fellow Helluva Boss enjoyers, and I think you've summed it up for me. I still had the idea of a morally grey Stolas that does some harmful things but genuinely wants to be closer to Blitzø, but the writing is just everywhere. Here's to Hazbin possibly being better.
this is what happens when you teach an amateur writer the words “i ship it” for the very first time. Really the whole show should’ve been confined to a couple loose Google docs and a proof of concept in ibispaint, but, such is life
this comment has the most sense put into it i feel. also the fact that they got such big names in so much of the first season who can't be around too long just even for their one recording session that they had to take what they got. they could probably honestly de-canonize a few of the earlier episodes at that rate
Stolitz was a fascinating dumpsterfire I was invested in. Pilot changes are normal; but it was with S2 that it felt so jarring to me. There were flaws in S1. But S1 at least was clear Blitzo was uninterested. He also felt trapped in this transaction. Stolas romanticized and sexualized Blitzo because of his loveless marriage. Both felt fascinating because Blitzo wants to push away, Stolas wants to pull. EP 7 made it clear they were not an uwu sweet relationship. S2 took a nosedive by pretending ep 7 didn't happen; and felt like they want to absolve Stolas of his faults by having him love Blitzo all this time cuz childhood crush. What bothered me is Stolas does not really feel like an ominous prince of Hell. He was so interesting! He had so much mystery that we could unravel through IMP. EP 6 was my favorite because we got to see how eldritch he is. He still could like Blitzo and have had his own hidden agenda as a villain. But nah, steamroll his character into uwu softboy who just wants Blitz to look his way.
I think Stoliz's main problem is that the writers changed their mind from wanted from Stoliz (and the show). At the beginning, Helluva Boss was just a serialized show that picked when and what continuity it used (and it still does that) and Stoliz was just two assholes exploiting each other. Pretty simple stuff. But than they changed their mind and suddenly wanted Stoliz to be something more series and complex, but they haven't yet taken the time to acknowledge the inherent problems with the relationship. These problems didn't matter as much when the show wasn't as serious and complex. They were just two assholes. I think that's part of why The Circus exists. It's a giant retcon. That's not inherently bad, but it is something to take note off. On the quick topic of Stella, some fans say they ruined her to make Stolas seem better. And while I don't think that's 100% true (lets be honest here, not only did Stella not have much of a character to begin with, but we also had no idea what their dynamic was actually like before the affair), I can DEFINITELY see why fans thought that, as that's what it feels like. The show also hasn't really explored her side of the arraigned marriage (I do like how Stolas says a couple times in both The Circus and Western Energy how he would feel bad for cheating on her if it did actually hurt her. I think that was really good idea). They could still have Stella be a villain while still giving her some nuance. But, so far, they haven't really given her that. And that's a problem for the show that Helluva Boss wants to be.
I do believe that they changed their minds on the kind of character that they wanted Stolas to be. In the early episodes, he's treated more like an annoying sex pest that Blitzo has to put up with to keep his business, and Blitzo is always shown as being irritated whenever he has to deal with him. The first season also emphasized how toxic and manipulative their arrangement was, the second season treats them like they're a genuine couple and the only things keeping them from being together are Blitzo's insecurities and outside factors.
And all of this is inherently as symptom of a much larger problem: the whole show is a giant retcon, and incomplete in a lot of areas. Like, the pitch we were given was 'demons work together in squad-dynamic to assassinate target, get big money and big respect'. More or less the premise were we shown n' told up front. While the show has retained the slapstick, crass humor, and violence...it's barely about the squad at all. So many episodes end up being laser focused on some combination of exes or dad issues, or *both*, and the squad dynamic isn't even fleshed out, which is *bizarre* going into Season 2 and onwards. Blitz interacts with Loona, Moxie interacts with Blitz, Millie interacts with Moxie, and that's...about it. The interactions are obviously a two way street, but it's so binary that the squad feels like it's composed of weird cliques that are together out of narrative convenience than a genuine bond or comradery. And as you've said with the retcons, a lot of characters feel like they're being heavily favored and pampered by the creator, ambiguity being written out after-the-fact, drawing attention instead to how sad and wronged or guilty they feel...only to do nothing with the emotional weight of the feelings they're dealing with in the next episode and pretend like it hardly even happened (see: Blitz's exchange with Stolas over text and in person after Season 1's finale). They don't change, or grow, or learn from their struggles. Hell, Loona talks to Octavia about how important her dad's genuine love is...how much his attempts to be there for her MEANS to her. And she racks his fucking balls the moment he tries to hug her and its time for the show to be funny again (emotional pacing/whiplash being another glaring problem). I don't mind goofy slap-stick shoot team. I don't mind melodrama demon cry sesh. I don't even mind crude humor hee hee toss puppy in fire. But the series trips over itself trying to juggle all of these facets on incomplete characters with anemic or straight up absent character dynamics, and worst of all: there's really not much of an over-arching story. That's what I find truly most damning about all this effort to seem complex and drama filled, and teasing plot threads like they'll amount to much more than what we've scene. None of it is truly contributing to an over all goal or conflict that the squad is facing, individually or otherwise. And as much as I love the art, the music, the hypnotic way the show sucks you in...I find it almost pointless to keep watching for yet another episode about relationships issues.
To Stolitz fans: I get it… I really do. I sincerely want to like it as well. It has all the elements that I crave in romances. It’s about two flawed people struggling at life, in a toxic relationship, making mistakes, and eventually making it out stronger and better. It’s a scenario where both of them end up stronger as individuals AND a duo. But… it just doesn’t feel right to me. Blitz really seems genuinely uncomfortable in MOST encounters. It really doesn’t seem like a man in love who is afraid to get hurt. It’s more of a worker that feels that his livelihood depends on entertaining the sexual whims of his boss. While Stolas is significantly more affectionate, I often wonder what he likes in Blitz aside from the taboo nature of it and the sense of freedom he gets. Would Stolas feel the same love if he encountered a different sexy male imp? Blitz is right to feel insecure because I’m also unsure what Stolas likes that is Blitz-specific On top of that, the shows addressing of the cheating also feels shallow. Instead of adding the drama of “I did something bad. It was wrong of me to cheat on my spouse… what should I do???”, the show really tries to justify the relationship by making Stella an abusive monster, “forcing” him into a situation where the cheating has to happen. I wish Stella was a realistic antagonist. She is a noble that wants to keep up appearances, does not like Stolas in the slightest, and just had a kid, again, to keep up appearances. If she was also morally grey, it would’ve added so much more conflict and nuance in the relationship. I personally wished that Stella was ironically the better parent while Stolas was spending more and more time with Blitz. It would’ve introduced some interesting contrast. Even if Stella only acted purely to keep up appearances, being in front of guests would mean that Stella would have to at least PRETEND to like Stolas and Octavia. She would want Octavia to be well educated and well groomed. She may be both emotionally distant and controlling, but could’ve been the comparatively better parent than Stolas who might not be emotionally or even physically present for her. (That would also add interesting conflict to Octavia’s story who isn’t someone who “hates her loving dad”, but someone who “hates her unknowingly neglectful dad who is conflicted and remorseful about it” But that’s just me making up scenarios. Ultimately the writers can write the story they want. What’s the point of art if they’re not allowed to write that they have in mind? I doubt I could write something better. Even if I could, that’s what fanfics are for lol
I also want to see Octavia and Stella interact more- maybe even have an episode together. There's actually not really any sign that Stella dislikes her daughter. Actually, in one episode where Stella is on the phone with stolas and stolas says "No, I'm not turning her against you!" Implying that Stella got angry at stolas for trying to make her daughter dislike her. In one clip stolas also says "Octavia is with her mother this weekend." So they do actually spend time- we just never see what their relationship is actually LIKE. I would REALLY like an episode with the two of them- it might even maybe make Stella more likable (if she is a good mother) and is just extremely mad at her father. Octavia never actually INSULTS her mother or insinuates that she treats her badly. They could have a good relationship but we just never get to see it.
I completely agree, they could have had her be at least slightly more manipulative considering she is a noble, maybe not feel much anymore, like Dennis, THE GOLDEN GOD.
@@acequeenofthedeck8431Maybe Stella would try to comfort Octavia on her feelings with Stolas cheating. I think Via is just as upset with Stolas as Stella is.
I know right? It's like Vivzie has no idea how to write for women in this show! Millie gets shafted, Loona is a snark and a swear, Octavia is so rare to talk, and Stella was changed to be a angry woman straight from a yaoi.
14:45 "Not many imps start their own business" Fizzarolli is the most famous person in Hell, Moxxie's father runs the mafia... it's not just the characters the world building is all over the place
The key phrase being "not many" meaning that Blitz isn't the only one, but there are few. Being able to name 2 others isn't really a contradiction when it's stated that there's multiple.
@@syniimon-stix4022 still if you wanna write a story where class/cast struggle is something real having two characters from supposedly oppressed groups ruling over other "superior" class demons is something that breaks the tone of oppresion, as far as we've seen anyone can have a good life in hell if they work hard enough
@@guilhermeteodosio40 it's still not a contradiction. And we know very little about the pasts of these characters. How would you know that they worked hard to get where they are? As far as we know, Crimson could have been born into the Mafia just like Moxxie. And we know that Fizz is only famous because Mammon took advantage of his talent, not because of his own work but because Mammon is greedy and mass produced products to get the most amount of money possible. I'm not trying to say that this show is perfect, but I am saying that seeing a few imps who are firstly characters of interest and also relevant to the plot being a little more well off doesn't mean that the show is contradicting itself.
Fizzarolli didn't start any business, he works for Mammon's business as a mascot, and literally ONE imp rising up in organised crime, a system which is often the only place oppressed minorities can get a proper foothold (America fucking hated Italians at the time the Mafia was established) contradicts nothing.
13:07 I agree. You see, I was a victim of sexual coercion not that long ago. It’s so heartbreaking seeing these two portrayed as “lovers” when in reality it would be far better for them to not get together at all. I hate seeing shit like this, it makes me angry.
This is the exact reason I feel so uncomfortable about fans of the show (let's be real mainly teenagers) loving this ship so much. Like I get it fiction is fictional but it still feels like a romantaciaztion of a person in power taking advantage of someone else. Like fans of this ship will fight tooth and nail to defend it, and I don't want to be the guy who calls every toxic pairing as normalisation but with the amount of people saying this is completely normal and the audience being mostly teenagers I can't help but worry that this could have a real effect on people. This isn't a case of people not having media literacy this is a case of the show itself saying everything is fine and bending over backwards to show stolas as just a little guy who doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. I'm really sorry that happened to you and I hope you're doing well now, I know sexual coersion isn't taken as seriously as other forms of SA mostly because of how it's glorified. It makes me feel so wrong to see it used here as just a meet cute for the love interests TLDR: I don't like how the power dynamic stolas has over blitz is forgiven and even romatacized
@@garbageenthusiasm4588 Sorry but that argument is always laughable when we talk about helluva where literally all characters are criminals, bad people, should be badly judged so there should not be any ship in hell and lovers would also not exist. they ended up in hell for a reason. so if you guy would simp for ANY CHARACTER would make you just as bad because you literally simp at an ex-criminal . but people discussing about an abusive relationship between 2 criminals in hell...
@@glasperle77not all of the characters are bad people. For example, there's Moxxie Yes, he kills and murders, but it's only because he was born in a mafia family and works as an assassin in I.M.P. Im fairly sure if he didn't have those experiences in the show, he would actually be sorta saint. Also, they are Hellborn, not sinners. Just because they are born in hell doesn't mean that they will all be terrible people. Like literally the Princess of Hell Charlie is one of the most kindest and saint character of the franchise, yet she was born in hell
This s**t happens a lot in most Yaoi fan fiction like Tokyo Ghoul, Naruto, Durarara, Attack on Titan, Fire Emblem, Dragon Age, Baldur’s Gate 3, Persona, Bungou Stray Dogs and so much more. I shudder if there are any Yaoi fanfics of Spy x Family, Chainsaw Man, Hell’s Paradise and Zom 100 Bucket List of the Dead.
Honestly, I would have prefered if Stella wasn't evil and the reason she wants to kill Stolas is because of resentment built upon years of being stuck in a political marriage where both spouses are as unfit for each other as possible. Even for comedy purposes, it would have been funnier that way. Just imagine if instead of the episode where Stolas is kidnapped both him and his wife end up in a Mr and Mrs Smith style fight, pointing every flaw they can think of. And Octavia watching everything.
As a fan of the show, I was afraid at first that you'd just use the opportunity to list everything you dislike about it, but you were so incredibly respectful and made very good points. Most of the fans have also come to the conclusion that their relationship isn't very healthy for either of them and I'm very glad you brought up the situation with Stella as well, as many fans - including myself - are mad about that. They could've made Stolas such an interesting morally grey character, but instead of showing Stella as someone who was just as unhappy in their set-up marriage, as someone who had to fulfill the duty to produce an heir just like him, they decided to retcon the whole thing and instead go the "Oh, Stella has always been a bad person, so Stolas is totally in the right to cheat on her"-route. Maybe they were afraid people wouldn't like Stolas as much in that case, as most people dislike cheating, I dunno. It's still just such a shame because that decision came at the cost of Stella's entire character. Oh, well. Anyways, great video, great arguments. Would love to see more content like this from you in the future 👌🏻
Definitely agree and really missed Stolas being an interesting morally grey character as that had potential to be interesting and iconic but it got thrown out for him into being a sad uwu woobie. Kinda wished they stuck with the original plan or idea that they had before the Stolitz ship got popular and Stella had to get no character at all to justify Stolas which honestly they could have kept them both morally grey and complex if they want both to be in the wrong but still get nuanced as that could have worked
My ex was like "omggg we are so like stolas and blitzo!" And idk what he meant (as i havent watched the show) but sense im now like 99.99% sure that these two have a toxic relationship so- confirms my therory that he was a shitty guy i shouldnt have dated-
Personally, I seriously thought that Stolas was the Main Villain of the show when I first watched it. Yes, he loves Octavia and Stella isn't a saint herself, but I've seen villains, who would destroy an entire village, genuinely care for their kids (Mandrake from Epic for example) and have gotten hurt by a partner/potential partner (The Phantom in the novel version of The Phantom of the Opera). So when I saw season 1, I was looking at their relationship in a toxic light (Which is toxic to begin with, even if unintentional). For example, in the episode"Truth Seekers", I thought the trip scene was implying that Blitz was slowly developing some form of Stockholm Syndrome for Stolas, slowly poisoning his already damaged mental health and that his team would have to get him out of the toxic situation. So when I saw the last episode of season one and the rest of season 2, I was extremely confused. (Side note: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the writers actually wanted to make Stolas the villain of the show at one point, but scrapped the idea for Stella instead.)
I'm so happy you're so honest about this😭😭 I was beginning to feel like I'm insane for thinking this beloved ship is actually a toxic shitshow. Like, there's potential for an interesting, deep dynamic, but Vivienne is allergic to making her pure sad baby boys anything than morally right and it's infuriating. Especially paired with how every woman in her shows is either a cardboard cutout with no flavor or an evil, irredeemable cardboard cutout with no flavor.
Honestly Stolitz started off very unhealthy even in the non-canon pilot you could tell Stolas didn't really think of Blitz as any more than a sex toy, but somewhere along the first season I feel like that changed? Still don't think it's healthy especially because after Stolas saved Blitz from the demon hunters, Blitz tried to use sex as a "thank you" method?? Idk seems kinda messed up to me.
well that’s mainly because in the pilot stolas and blitz had a different type of relationship where stolas was originally a villain while in the first episode it completely changed off to how stolas just cheated
The “met as kids and reconnected later” trope is something i like (purely bc i have ocs who are like that) but i think it has to be something that the writers had solidly in place since the START.
Also, the show focuses too much on Stolitz, especially in season 2. Like, remember when this show was about I.M.P., now it's just the Blitz and Stolas show, and Moxxie Millie and Loona are barely there.
I just wanna mention the story built up in the Pilot is a very different one than what we got. Yes it’s a pilot, but pilots are suppose to pitch the series. In the pilot Stolas is set up as an ANTAGONIST, he is written as a future obstacle for Blitzo to overcome. Yet all the setup from the pilot eventually gets ignored, it’s not a show about imp assassins, it’s the stolitz show. I like Stolas and it fucking sucks the shows not self aware enough to realise he’s an antagonist, he’s in the wrong. This show man… it’s hard to watch
Stolas being changed is normal pilot thing. But Helluva Boss going from IMP shenanigans to the Stolitz show? Nah. Blitzo was my hook to watch the show. But I also really loved Stolas. He felt mysterious in both the pilot and EP 1. He is a Prince of Hell who might have other reasons for helping IMP. We got him in the pilot with Blitz going about a political candidate warning folks about global warming. It felt like he also hires IMP for his own gains. He could still be an antagonist AND like Blitzo through careful writing. What I dislike so much is they absolve Stolas of so much, now it feels like his entire character is just being horny or sad over Blitzo.
It feels like the show is gaslighting me into thinking that Stolas wanting their relationship to be more than just sex which he literally hasn’t yes now we see that he wants more but at the beginning he didn’t show any signs that he wanted more
@@SeinIshamiado I know but stolas now is trying to act like that he’s always wanted something more than this just be about business but when in fact in the beginning he didn’t show any signs or anything
@Moonholic. Haven't you ever spent time with someone that you had no romantic feelings for but then as you spend time with them, you find that you may like them To be more than friends?
@@SeinIshamiado But this isn't real life, it's a story. You need to see the progression not dump it in one episode at the end of the season and say " deal with it, this is what we're doing now ". Foreshadowing is a literary device ....
It was a great example of showing a dark and morally complicated pairing. Then it became a gross depiction of what the tone seems to think is a messy but wholesome pairing.
I used to like helluva boss till they started trying to make Stolas more sympathetic and shove stolitz down my aching throat. I thought it would be nothing more than a gag at first, I was fine with that. Then all of a sudden it turns into some tragic forbidden love plot. I was never into Stolitz, so it sort of sucked to have it turn out the way it did. I still watch helluva boss, but I don’t love it as much as I used to. I’m just sorta there for Blitz since he’s my comfort character.
Honestly, I stopped watching Helluva Boss all together after the little car scene that Blitzo and Stolas had since it felt so incomplete and uncomfortable. Not the kind of uncomfortable that means you wanna see what else happens, or the kind where you hope they can get past it; but the one where you feel like it should genuinely stop trying. Like God, Loona and Octavia had more (sisterly) chemistry than these two and they've known each other for like 5 minutes plus a cigarette session. I just want to see these two be happy because their dynamic COULD work, someone needs to give Stolas a reality check and Blitzo a bit of group therapy already.
It's uncomfortable to watch because it was designed to be. Everyone in it is uncomfortable. It's incomplete because neither knows what to do in the moment or has the spoons to continue after such a rough night. But it's very direct and accomplishes what is meant to. Stolas gets a big dose of reality and comes to necessary conclusions. Then he spends the first part of season two trying to get a solution to the coercion that he didn't realize was in play since he was knee deep in fantasy
@@zoenesin520 Then suddenly going straight to make it "Work normally" makes it bad, as it should be either a toxic relationship, or a Broken yet not toxic relationship trying to fix itself, not both
i was so convinced that ozzie’s was gonna start the beginning of the end for their relationship and have stolas actually seeing how he forces blitz’s hand but NoOoOoOoO it’s just a misunderstanding
I think if they wanted to make Stolas seem like he wasn’t just coercing Blitzø into sexual favors without changing anything that was shown on screen before Ozzie’s was by making Stolas talk back to Blitzø when he was saying Stolas was only using him. He could tell Blitzø about how he always tried to talk to him about regular stuff going on in his life but anytime he tried Blitzø never listened. By making Stolas say this to Blitzø it shows the audience that their transactions weren’t just sex and then Blitzø would leave. It would show that Stolas was genuinely trying to make his stay enjoyable and he was trying to deepen their bond because he loves him. I still don’t think that fixes everything because regardless if Stolas’ intentions were good or not, sexual coercion should never be justified but it at least shows that everything he was doing (even if it was in a very twisted way) was out of love but instead of doing something like that they proceeded to make him an uwu sad boi who has done nothing wrong when they could’ve made him morally grey with good intentions
tbh I think the reason Stolitz never bothered me as a ship all too much is that I never took the show that seriously. The problem with that is, that the show wants you to take it seriously. Despite how it started in the earlier episodes it's very clear that with the direction it's going the ship as well as other parts of the show are going to get more serious. I think that's why I do like the fact we aren't focusing on stolas and the ship all too much and the most recent shit has been about Fizz, the M&M's, etc because at least when it gets serious, it's not with the relationship. Their new music video is nice, I personally wish that the ship doesnt end up happening and what we get is stolas and blitz learning to love themselves since that's the most major personal troubles with their characters. Unfortunately I dont think we are gonna get it. I wanna have hope that the ship CAN work and become healthy but genuinely I don't think it can be
Honestly, really good video! As a fan of the show, I'm really happy to see people criticizing it out of genuine care and not just because "I don't like it so I have to find something that makes it so liking it is morally bad!". I think most of the problems with this ship and HB in general is the fact that the creators don't really know how to create a show, lol. Morally gray/immoral characters are so interesting to create and explore and it makes me so sad people feel like if their characters do bad things then they have to either try their damndest to justify it, or act like the characters are tainted and horrible and could never be redeemed. I actually created one of my current characters (his name is Vorricall) because of this exact frustration. My idea with him was "create a heavily flawed character and try to still make them sympathetic and redeemable without ignoring or minimalizing their faults." And I find developing and exploring characters like that incredibly fun and intriguing! it makes me wish other people were bold enough to try that as well. Of course, you don't have to write flawed characters if you don't want to. But if you are going to create flawed characters and make them the main focus of your show, at least put effort into portraying them correctly. I think all creations deserve a place to exist, but it's clear the creators of HB are trying to make Stolas seem like he has done nothing wrong and like Blitzø is being an ass for not reciprocating his feelings. I do think that when it comes to Blitzø, the writers aren't trying to portray him as a tsundere and more as someone who hasn't really figured out how he feels yet. The show is still ongoing, so there's still a chance to see the characters of Blitzø and Stolas develop and grow, and maybe we will even get to see Stolas (and the show in general) acknowledge his wrongs and apologize for them. I do think the whole question of "why do they even like each other??" Is usually pretty stupid because love doesn't always have a clear, definite reason. But when it comes to stolitz, I think it's a really valid thing to ask. I understand Stolas Liking Blitzø, but Blitzø liking Stolas just seems kinda stockholm-y. I have other theories, but I do think from the way it's portrayed in the narrative, it's the only explanation that really works. He at first showed no interest in him and even seemed genuinely uncomfortable to be around him, and then suddenly we're supposed to believe he loves him? I feel like the things leading up to him realizing his feelings for Stolas should have been clearer and actually portrayed in the narrative. Again, I don't think any of the genuinely problematic aspects of this relationship were done out of malice, just out of poor writing. I do hope to see the show improve, as I think it has a lot of potential and is really enjoyable most of the time!
That's said soso well and I totally agree!! I really like analyzing their relationship and I don't think it was the writer's intentions to make Blitz' feelings stockholm-y and it's fitting for his character to not be so obvious about them, however it really should've been made clearer how he actually feels about him. It's made pretty clear how Stloas feels, but for Blitz you really have to do a lot of analysing to even see that there is something.
God I am so grateful someone finally broke this down. I was flabbergasted at the "forlorn heartbroken song" Stolas sang. Their entire "ship" read like shitty rp partners from my teens that tried to force romance
See, I never liked the ship to begin with, but I could never quite put my finger as to why. You put the words I couldn’t find in my mouth. And for that I thank you. This also made me realize how much I really don’t like Stolas. He’s been kind of an entitled prick yet we’re supposed to sympathize with him throughout the entire series. One thing that really irks me though, is the fact that he doesn’t spend any time with his daughter, despite the fact that he promises that he will. The girl is already 17 and she doesn’t know how to conjure spells. At this point, she’ll be perfect for manipulation on Stella‘s end. From what I understand, there will be conflict between her and Stolas later on however, it’ll only be because she finds out he’s over using his prescription. Which honestly isn’t a good enough reason. I’ve been in her shoes with a emotionally neglective, and I would’ve been much more pissed about the fact that he broke his promises to me.
This video is honestly so well done. Tbh I do hate blitz and stolaz all together but this video went into detail abt how Toxic they really are! I love it
Apparently the story was that Stolas was one of the main villians, but then Viv asked Brandon Rodgers if these two would be cute together and he said yes. Then when they recasted Bryce as Stolas it changed Stolas’s story a lot
I can't believe Vivzie crammed three "tolerating sexual abuse power imbalance reliant on keeping the job" story arcs on top of their "oops all daddy issues, all the way down" the universe.
It’s honestly a shame. They’d have such an interesting dynamic if they were written well. I really did love the way things were portrayed in the new music video, they could be cute if they were, yknow, allowed to grow. And blitz actually liked him 💀. I think they’re both good characters on their own and COULD have a lot of chemistry.
I would've preferred if this dynamic stayed how it was in the pilot. The show wasnt taking itself too seriously which is what made their original dynamic so funny. They were both horrible people exploiting off of eachother. The stolas phone calls were hilarious and could've made a perfect running gag. I really wished this showed stayed episodic and wasn't storydriven
Yeah I kind of wish they end this ship and have them in seperate relationships because I hate how dragged out it is now. Like I thought it was a kind of intresting pair at first but after season 1 it just grinded to a halt this is especially sad seeing how well they paced Fiz and Ozzy's relationship was.
im glad someone is FINALLY talking about this, ive always hated this ship, its incredibly toxic and its very,, uhh. theres way too much casual sexual harrassment and borderline assult? its just so odd its looked over so much and treated as like "theyre just like that!!!!!!" nobody should 'just be like that' its weird asl
Yeah I also hate how they watered down Stolas's character to be uwu soft boy in recent episodes. Dont even get me started on the misogynistic writing surrounding Stellas character.
@@zoenesin520 because the female villains in helluv boss have had something bad happen to them by the main characters like Verosika and blitz or stolas and Stella and despite stolas and blitz having done bad things to them the writers treat stolas and blitz like they didn’t do anything wrong and that the audience is supposed to hate the victims like verosika and Stella. And the female charcters who ARENT villains rarely get shined upon and even when Millie did get her own episode, it felt overshadowed by Barbie wire and blitz and she was overshadowed by Sallie may in the mini episode. That’s how the misogyny shows
I do like the ship but I can see why people dislike it. It is really toxic and problematic. There are a lot of times where I dislike it. I honestly wouldn't care if they got together, became good friends or just flat out stopped talking to each other. I think the character's should talk about the power dynamic and if blitzø wants to be with him. In the show it seems like there is something not mutch but something. It may work if on the next episode they talked ( the next episode is named full moon so its possible) It would work then but otherwise shouldn't really be happening.
I personally never really cared for stolitz I was always more interested in the assassins and business part of the show so it’s just breaks my heart how they’ve taken a new direction that has so many flaws and I agree stolitz has many issues that show wants us to ignore at least of stolas’s side which is frustrating because the show is actively victim blaming blitz and making us feel bad for the worser person in this situation. But if you are into suggestions could you by chance talk about how the writers sorta failed Moxxie he’s one of my favorite characters who the writers like to bring up and down and make him this incompetent baby who can’t do anything without his wife. He actually has skill and brains yet they take that away from him whenever they wanna humiliate him. I just wanna say I enjoyed this video and you respecting while also criticizing something is a breath of fresh air especially in the helluva fandom. All in all great video and I hope to see more commentary videos from you😊.
First of all, thank you very much for the kind comment. :] Second of all, if I ever make another video about HB, I’d likely talk about the misogyny in the show, and though Moxxie is a male character, a lot of his treatment (i.e. being bullied and put down for being less traditionally masculine in personality and interests) is very misogynistic so I’d likely discuss how the writers treat him. Not sure if and when I’d make that video, but it would be cool to!
@@rottika hey we’ll take your time no pressure and if your really not up for it that’s okay as well. Also for how queer helluva boss is I find it weird when they fall back into toxic stereotypes and things as humor or jokes when they’re not
Personally I lost interest in their relationship after season two started cause of the inconsistencies. Never really shipped them but I thought their dynamic was kinda interesting to watch at first.
Stolas x Blitz reminds me a lot of those anime Yaoi couples like Naruto x Sasuke, Kaneki x Hide from Tokyo Ghoul, Shizou x Izaya from Durarara and Eren x Levi from Attack on Titan. Most of them are bad, barely make any sense and a bit uncomfortable to get into. These shippers tend to make a lot of disturbing and disgusting fanfiction and fanart which leads to the two of them having sex which looks and sounds like rape as Sasuke, Izaya, Hide and Levi tends to be on the top and more dominant. Plus a lot of these shippers tend to hate female characters like Hinata, Touka and Varona for getting in the way of their “precious Yaoi”. Some Naruto fans accuse Hinata of being a Stalker with an unhealthy obsession with Naruto when both Sakura and Karin are way worse than her seeing how they lust over Sasuke whose a wanted terrorist that started World War 4. Some Tokyo Ghoul fans tends to think that Touka is abusive towards Kaneki without getting to know her at all. Plus they accused Touka of raping Kaneki in Re: Chapter 125 when Kaneki consented to sex along. Do they not know that other characters like Tsukiyama, Jason, Arima and Mitsuki have done way worse to Kaneki than Touka? I mean when Tsukiyama kidnaps Kimi and breaks Kaneki’s arm, he gets a free pass. But when Touka hits Kaneki for abandoning when she needed him the most, the fans think that she’s worse than Hitler. Some Durarara Fans think that Varona is mentally 10 years old when really she’s 20. At least Varona and Shizou had a way healthier relationship that his relationship with Izaya, a sociopath who tries to kill him every other time, breaks the law just to piss him off and tried to frame him for murder but letting Shizou kill him during the series finale. At least Varona was mature enough to kill Izaya so she could take the blame for Shizou since he just got out of the slammer for a crime he did not commit. About Eren x Levi. That’s basically pedophila since Eren was 15 and Levi was 30 during the start of the series.
I’m glad that stolas is giving him the crystal because then the relationship won’t be just transactional like they can develop together without having that kinda of shit in the way.
People who ship Stolitz either want to live vicariously through a messy and heavily fetishised "relationship"...Or they no framework for what a healthy relationship actually is.
I will say this, at least it looks like Stolas is realizing he fucked up and is going to give Blitz the crystal and let him run his business without the arrangement. It proves he does have consent.
Gosh, finally I’ve found my people after years. I’ve always disliked this ship bc oh how unhealthy it is, it made me extremely uncomfortable, and everytime I said a word abt their toxic relationship, the fans have always send me death threats and called ME toxic. I really hope that stolitz won’t be canon and suddenly be a super healthy relationship , cause for 2 seasons there’s no so much progress. I very hope that Stolas will move on from Blitzø 💔 I have analysed both Stolas and Blitzø’s character, I understand them cause I can relate to them sometimes (especially Blitzø) , but their relationship is just..damn. They both have lots of problems and I just think that they aren’t meant for each other. 2 Bros need therapy😭
Sincerely thank you SOO MUCH, I was in an abusive relationship with someone like Stolas and seeing not only the fans but the literal SHOW ITSELF frame it as cutesy. AUGHHHH it has no bounds for how much it pisses me off. The fact that Millie even said Stolas is Blitzo's boyfriend too like I've had ppl irl say that about me and the person abused me like shipping us and my reaction was the same as Blitzo's. I empathize with Blitz so much in the episode where they go to Ozzie's. The general feeling of disgust when that coercer tries to make it romantic is actually SHOWN there in him, even if the show makes it out to be just "oh he's shy 😢😢" (which again.. pisses me off because that's what people thought about me and my coercer 😐) Though I used to love the show, the constant babying and "but he... 🥺" behavior and exceptions to Stolas makes me just hate it. Hopefully Hazbin Hotel doesn't do the same thing, I have high hopes for it.
At least Stolas is acknowledging his faults and his going to let Blitz go because he feels ashamed about how he treated him. That’s at least something right?
Lots of good points here! I really liked Stolitz in Season 1, but so far season two has a bit of an ick factor. I think a lot of that does come from the fact that they've taken the teeth out of Stolas, and made Stella...well dumb. Not even in an interesting way just.....bimbofied. I've heard that when Helluva Boss was initially made, Stolas was supposed to be the antagonist before the Shipping Happened. I'm so curious to know what the script would have looked like for that.
Wow this video is really insightful. Stolas and Blitzo have been my favorite characters from any media for quite some time and Vivienne actually inspired me to be an animator (so much so that I had been considering applying for Spindlehorse.) But I am an enjoyer of content that goes against my personal views or challenges them. And I actually agree with this video. I knew that there was a problematic nature to the Stolitz relationship the whole time but would just forget about the problematic parts whenever I watched the show. Hearing it being talked about in a video made me revisit the problematic nature of their relationship as whenever I questioned why I liked it myself I just pushed it under the rug. As much as I do like Stolas, I think it really puts me in a tough spot when the show is trying to frame it in a way where we are supporting the abuser. The Full Moon is going to come out soon, and I think that will ultimately be Vivienne's last opportunity to clean up some of these problems with the ship.
yeah The streak of fantastic episodes needs to continue with the full moon, I have faith in season 2 getting on the right track from now on since oops.
Well, first of all, everything you've just said from 0:51 to 1:56 has me respecting you on such a level I don't think many people will get like... damn, you shot down like six different groups of people and said, "Hey, you don't have to watch me talking bad about a show, and I don't mind that, and I don't hate you for wanting to watch people speak well about a show you like. I hope you have a good day." (Seriously, where the hell has this type of critique and analysing in my life been- BECAUSE I WANT MORE, GOD DAMN IT.) (I mean it, holy crap, I'm at a loss for words on how much I respect you at this moment.) Sorry, I just wanted to say that off the bat. Now, with that out of the way, everything you said in this video is such a good critique of the whole ship, a ship I'm kind of on board with (forgive me, I've seen a lot of art of them in white suits at a wedding, can you blame me), you did such a fantastic job of going over every problem with this ship, why they're a problem, why ONE (Sudo-Grappy) aspect is a massive problem and how you could fix it and make it better is so welcoming to see after the same, "This is bad, so it's overall bad" or "Why would anyone like this." Moreover, you being a previous fan of the show helps as well because you (I assumed) loved the show at one point, and therefore, you can see what people liked about it and why people would see it as a good ship helps with your view and why it’s not a good ship, and not come off as, bad faith or hate. I can't write much more because of how happy you've just made me with the whole video (I mean it. I have an ear-to-ear grin writing this.) Keep up the brilliant work, my friend, as a fan of Viv and her shows. I can safely say this is one of, if not the best critiques of a major aspect of Helluva Boss I have and will ever see. Have a good one, bye! (I'm sorry if this makes no sense I'm just in a good mood. :D )
@@BlackMoonOwl Fr like Octavia mentions that they didn't completely hate each other before Stolas went for Blitz, but then suddenly??? make her as shitty and hateable as you possibly can???
I can't help but agree a lot in this, and I am willing to open even why: (This next text will go through my own personal experiences, heavily) I have been before in same kind of situation as Blitzo, it is terrifying and leaving such relationship was the hardest thing for me personally than anything in my life by far. I started to feel bad for my "Stolas" in this case because they wanted more out of our relationship but no matter what - It was never fulfilled. Our relationship was toxic, abusive and I was stuck in it for whole 2-3 years. When I was in this relationship, I became more colder and less concidering being altogether. I didn't know what true affection in normal platonic relationships was anymore and often my negative feelings regarding on my relationship formed into me either pushing people away or be harsh worded with people... Just like what Blitzo is doing in the show. The whole cause of me getting into that point was the relationship with "Stolas" in my case and I am so angry even nowadays to myself why I didn't leave the relationship sooner - But then I remembered how pressured I felt of even concidering it. I was pleaded and quilt-tripped by "Stolas" to stay with them or else I woule be the "bad guy" for leaving them behind. I am horrified how much us audience is wanted to sympathize with Stolas, which I always feel super icky about. He is being put in pedestal where we want to feel bad for him for wanting Blitzo even after seeing how badly he has been treating Blitzo all this time. I don't want Stolitz to become actual couple unless they actually resolve any of the abusive and power dynamic relationship shenanigans.
Thank-you for this,and especially for your first point. I also strongly agree with your views on how this ship could have been written better. It was like you were in my brain for those. I like Stolas, but I have despised this ship from the beginning. The execution of it as a romance we are supposed to be rooting for has never made sense to me. It has always felt like she THINKS she's writing two broken people who only true issue is miscommunication,but then they will ultimately find romance in each other arms. When in ACTUALITY she's writing a deconstruction of one. Stolas: A Disney prince who has always kinda felt like he's in the wrong show. Who is also SEVERELY delusional about the KIND of person he's in love with. And it's a love that came out of nowhere in the episode Ozzie's in the first place. Blitz: A toxic, psychopathic,vulgar,highly aggressive,football field worth of red flags,jerk. Who for the majority of TWO seasons has been written like he strongly dislikes Stolas, and also only barely tolerates him on a good day. Then she suddenly remembers opps this is supposed to be my main ship so then precedes to write him a blink and miss romantic scene once a season that he forgets for the rest of it. She thinks she wrote a tsundere , but seems to have forgotten to write an EQUALLY dere part. Even the most hardcore shippers don't deny this ship is written very one-sided,but we're still supposed to root for them anyway. These two bring out the worst in each other.They are toxicity personified when they are together. The Full Moon episode in particular put the final nail in the coffin on why these two should NOT be together not why they should. What she has ACTUALLY written is two star crossed lovers who's own severe mental health issues, core personality differences, and societal and familial problems mean they DO NOT ultimately end up together. Also I've always thought that shippers should be wary the creator is very fond of Bojack Horseman. Because the main character does NOT end up with their love interest. They acknowledged they were just two lonely broken people who found solace with each other; but ultimately realized they were lying to themselves and are not compatible. So therefore they go there separate ways in the end. I truly think that's what the creator is going to do with these two. IF she is indeed writing a Bojack deconstruction that is. If not,and we are truly suppose to be rooting for these two to be endgame, then this is some of the most egregious romantic writing I've seen in a while. Theory if deconstruction is the endgame: She uses these last four episodes to have them talk, apologize, and tentatively see if they can become something romantic. Four episodes are not enough to get into the meat of these two's trauma,but anyway... Stolas loses his title,status,home,money and now has to live with his tentative boyfriend Blitz. Bonus in that he gets to see first hand how the lower class lives. That sweet,sweet character development. However the episode 12 storyboard leaks happen showing even more the star crossed nature of their relationship. Basically they truly can't be together because of what happens in general and by who the final nail comes from. She can circumset this by keeping them together to trauma bond,but that comes with it's own horrible issues. However they still realize they shouldn't be together. They part ways heartbroken but pining and understanding. Blitz then realizes he has been trying to find his first love Fizz in both his friend and romantic relationships, and they end the series together. Blitz actually acts like a sympathetic person around Fizz instead of an jerk, they have true history, were real friends, and she has been throwing ship teases even when they were enemies. As for the Ozzie issue I have my theories on why Fizz was wiping his mouth directly after the Blitz asking to make out scene. It's heartbreaking for Ozzie, but leaves the door open for Blitz. Stolas ends the series with his real life prince charming that his romance novels always promised. If he doesn't turn out to be his brother then this probably will be Vassago. He is the first person who shows Stolas what a healthy relationship is supposed to look and feel like because Stella and Blitz for sure weren't it. Stolas can then show up again in the season 4 epilogue in the sloth ring( I like the sky) enjoying a picnic with his husband Vassago,and beloved daughter Via. Since Stolas has no ties to Blitz anymore he gets written out of the show, but not before they have one final heart to heart. Stolas tells Blitz he helped him to have the courage to chose his own happiness after a lifetime of his choices being taken from him. Blitz tells Stolas he broke through the sea of his self hate and showed him that he was worthy of love, and that all royal demons should not be tared with the same brush. Basically as a deconstruction this ship works, but played straight it's horrendous. I know shippers are going to bring up the lovey dovey merchandise as proof of their inevitable endgame. All I will say to that is merchandise does not mean canon,and creators are allowed to change their mind if a story beat is not working.
People at this point only like Stolitz because it’s gay. If this was a straight ship, people would not be liking it as much. Especially if Stolas was the male and Blitzø was a female. And either way, gay or not, the ship is still poorly written and extremely forced. Also, Stolas pretty much manipulated Blitz into sleeping with him. Stolas kind of forced it, by saying that he won’t let Blitz have the book unless they have sex every month. The ship is also uncomfortable. Every single interaction is always sexual. It’s kinda gross. I really, really hope this ship doesn’t work out. But it probably will, unfortunately.
Okay, so I find your framing of the Stolitz relationship as abuse quite interesting precisely because it's so obvious that it can practically be considered explicit. I think what this shows is that there is a double standard when it comes to people who take the submissive role in the bedroom (like Stolas does). The relationship dynamic we have with Stolitz is actually not too far off from Fifty Shades of Grey, a narrative which I think most Helluva Boss fans would rightly criticize for romanticizing abuse - but because Stolas takes the submissive role in the bedroom, we cut him a lot more slack than we would a Christian Grey-type sadist. He's also less aware of what he's doing than Grey and doesn't really seem to _get_ that Blitzo isn't as much into it as he is, and thus comes across more innocent, I guess - but I do think him being a sub in the bedroom plays a huge role in their relationship being accepted by the fandom as much as it is. Stolitz being an abusive relationship wasn't really a secret to me, it's kind of plain to see in Season 1 and then gets glossed over in Season 2 without any development to justify it - but for some reason, it's also a relationship that fans (myself included) genuinely want to see develop and get better over time. But maybe that's not a good thing to want, idk. What makes it worse is that I don't think the show is going to address this in a meaningful way, because Viv is actually not that good of a writer.
As much as I hate Stolitz as well, I will say that there was one pretty decent moment of banter between them that I actually liked in the Season 2 Episode "Seeing Stars". "What, you can't memorize your fuckin spells?" "Oh, your memory's so great?" (gestures to Moxxie) "What's HIS phone number?" "Fuck you." "Eeeexactly!" First of all, they had a clear opportunity for a sex joke where Stolas could've given a flirtatious response to the words "fuck you", but they just... didn't. He doesn't say "well, if you insist", or "take me out to dinner first", or anything like that whatsoever, we just get him smugly smiling and going "exactly!" Second of all, it doesn't feel like Stolas is talking down to Blitz at all in this exchange. He doesn't insult Blitz or call imps idiots and/or imply that they have bad memories or anything like his usual behavior, he's just replying to what Blitz implied about him first. Third of all... it gives married couple energy and I lowkey love it. Blitz giving him a little side eye, Stolas putting his hands on his hips and giving Blitz a little annoyed look over(finally, an emotion besides sexual desire or depressed longing!), Stolas' smug satisfaction over proving his point, it's almost perfect. If they just added a bit more to it, like just a bit more playful energy, and put moments like this in more often... I might still be on board.
Stolas seems to be talking down less to Blitz as episodes go. Maybe he is learning to avoid calling people of lower class and especially Blitz nicknames
Blitz is honestly the worst character I’ve ever seen, they tried to go for a Richie tozer character but it was poorly done, I always find it hard to feel bad for whom even if it’s obvious you should, he’s so creepy, having a fantasized 3-way with his employed friends who are married, being entirely creepy and manipulative towards SEVERAL characters, verosika, stolas, and everyone tbh
Yeah tbh Blitzo feels like a poorly written crass character that was created by a 15 year old edgy teen on the internet thinking that his character would be funny.
Reminder: THERE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT ON YOUR PARTNER. EVEN IF SAID PARTNER IS HORRIBLE TO YOU THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO GET CLOSURE THAT DOESNT INVOLVE CHEATING!!!
I think the reason so many people dont see any issue is due to the common issue of people seeing men being uncomfortable in a relationship as a haha funny thing and not an actual issue so they dont pick up on the fact that the Blitz is like never happy in this relationship basically. Idk if you end up saying this later in the video but yeah
This video opened my eyes, because... I had never stopped to think about their "relationship" in this way. Like, everything you said is right (in my view at least) and now, I don't think they're a good couple.
I feel the same way about Stolis's love for Blitzo that I felt about Sakura Haruno's love for Sasuke Uchia way back in the day. "Wait was this meant to be true love this whole time? I thought this was meant to be an arc of self discovery, where the character eventually realizes they've been projecting onto their crush instead of seeing them for who they really are, figure out that their needs won't ever be met by this person, who has always been honest that they've never reciprocated their romantic attraction, accept the truth, break things off, and then finally move on to find a more healthy relationship with someone else. Everything that's happened so far has convinced me that's where this was going. Why is the story telling me now that this love is genuine?"
I really dislike the kid section, it is much more interesting for an ancient demon that makes deals every tuesday to fall in love with an imp and try to understand his feelings and than convince the other side his feelings are real and not a manipulation tactic
PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT Just so everyone knows, Rottika is done with Helluva Boss. He told me on one of his streams that he doesn’t want to watch this show anymore. He hasn’t even seen the Mammon episode so don’t make any comments asking if he’s seen Full Moon or Apology Tour.
When you mentioned how it sounds good in premise but had a poor execution, it particularly resonated with me. A lot of the show has really good ideas that they end up butchering in the second season through retconning or various shenanigans in the plot. I've always had a problem with this ship but couldn't find the words to define it except for the fact that the show focuses on it way too much. It makes me laugh how they changed Stella to be evil and abusive when I previously found him interesting because of that moral ambiguity in their dynamic. I think it would've been a more interesting dynamic to show Blitz learning to get out of a toxic dynamic without any of the romantic attraction that the show tries to push him hiding, especially with the more impressionable audience that Helluva Boss naturally attracts due to the overly vulgar nature. It would be a good lesson on how to stand up properly to an abuser, but that's just my take.
As someone who’s followed HB since the pilot and Instagram accounts, the show really suffers from pacing. Viv, Brandon, and Adam don’t allow themselves to take a moment to pause and focus on a specific moment, topic, or theme. They throw things too much at the audience and forget that build up matters in writing. For example, Fizz and Blitzø relationship is resolved in one episode despite years of hostility. But also in the same episode it’s presented as a the fallout of their relationship is a result of misunderstanding and we’re given background as to what the fallout was. These episodes have a lot going on with the two and all also other characters that matter such as Blitzø sister Barbie, Crim, Striker, Asmodeous, and Stolas. They presented several storylines in the episode and don’t give the audience to absorbs what’s happening nor time to flesh out what themes they’re trying to present. This is the same issue with the Stolas and Stella relationship because it’s clear they tried to portray their relationship as an example of reactionary abuse, but they completely speed run their presentation which lead to misunderstandings of the twos dynamic. Stolas sleeping with Blitzø is supposed to be an example of a victim trying to get back at his abuser. However, Stella isn’t written seriously as an abuser till S2E1, which is bad because they had all the pieces but they choose to focus on something else or cheapen how bad the relationship was for gags which leads to misinterpretation of the relationship between the two. LO also has this issue with Minthe and Hades but for a different reason. Stolas and Blitzø has all the potential but because the team speeds runs the characters issues with themselves and each other, it doesn’t feel deserved. Nor is executed well because the important moments between the two are so far presented as texts. Like we don’t get Blitzø side of things unless it’s through message or photos, which is not what build attachment main pairing. Makes me curious of HH, because Huskerdust may be canon in S1 as hinted in trailers and there’s only 8 episodes as stated by Brandon and Adam in a recent interview.
Remarkable I’m still a fan of the show although season two was really rough there for a while (I swear Fizzy is the only thing that saved it for me and he’s not even part of the main cast). Even though I like the show I acknowledge that there’s some serious writing flaws especially when it comes to Stolitz. It’s fairly clear to me at least when I watch the show the writers intended to show exactly what he talked about in the video but more often than not it gets brushed to the size. Ozzie’s was a really important moment in their relationship but it hasn’t been properly acknowledged since then. Just by what we’ve seen about Stolas getting the Amosedian Crystal for Blitz and the title of the next episode I’m guessing it will be talked about then, at least glanced over, but we really shouldn’t have have to wait until the season finale to FINALLY show us the results of the last finale. Like, in Seeing Stars they’re basically just dicking around the whole time and the emotional whiplash is awful. I think your point of Blitz never actually being shown liking Stolas back is further supported by the fact after Blitz and Fizz make up (which happens a bit to quick for my tastes) Blitz asks Fizz to make out like bro. Blitz is repeatedly shown sleeping with and flirting with other characters which by itself isn’t an issue but the show isn’t helping it’s case when Blitz shows more attraction to literally some random guy at a party than Stolas, the character he’s supposed to end up with.
lazy enemies to lovers writing has led to way too many ships where the two characters magically harass each other into becoming endgame as if their quirky banter isn't just plain toxic and realistically they'd never work as anything more than friends with benefits. can't have toxic yaoi if it's not written in a way that makes actual sense
Not to mention (iirc) in the first episode Bliztø made the full moon deal with Stolas while the imp was running away/being shot at. Blitzø wasn’t in a position to fully think things through/refuse when he was running/hiding in order to not die. Stolas could probably hear what was happening over the phone/see what was happening with his powers and took advantage of the situation. Otherwise, I’m sure Blitzø would’ve made a different deal (one not involving sex) had he gotten the time to think things through.
I'll never understand why the writers want us to side with Stolas when you clearly see how bad of a person Stolas really is like, i've seen people defending Stolas in way that the only thing i was able to say were "really?", "are you for real?" And "you gotta be joking, right?" This is terrible writting
Honestly it reminds me of rebornica’s purple/phone, one agressively flirting, or even just sexually harassing someone, and the other being entirely uninteressted and agressively rejecting the other’s advances. Think this might be a trope actually. Potentially with yaoi origins.
I’m glad that you brought all of this up about their relationship. I never felt like they were meant for each other or were ever even romantically interested in each other. Every time I saw them shipped, it felt so wrong and I couldn’t put my finger on it and you really made the mark on me why it doesn’t work. You made a super reasonable and respectful video bringing the light on the other side of the “shipping” discussions. Wonderful video!
Even though I dislike Stolitz like immensely I try to avoid any video on them, whether positive or negative. I just have a hard time listening to people talk about them in general, but your video was really interesting. It was very inline with how I felt about Stolitz but couldn’t verbalize, cus I’m very much media illiterate. From a behind the scenes kind of thing, Stolitz just seems like it’s trapped in writing hell. Like their relationship is very clearly not thought story wise. The coercive part is definitely from the pilot where Stolas was originally intended to be a villain and when they decided to change that they never changed or try to remedy the coercive part of their “relationship”. From what I understand some time during production a staff member headcanon Stolitz as childhood friends and Viv was like “oh yeah, let’s do that.” Stella being abusive feels like it was included to just so Stolas doesn’t look like a bad guy for cheating on Stella. I’ve people post evidence that Stella was always intended to be abusive in a very old post on the Stolas Instagram account but like, most people watching the show probably don’t even know those accounts exist. It would’ve been nice to see that in the show prior to the cheating. There’s one scene where Stella says she’s glad that she can stop trying to sleep with Stolas and that she does all the work in bed, some people say that’s indicative of abuse. I honestly just feel that’s very grey, it’s proof Stolas wasn’t interested in her but it doesn’t scream abuse to me. Honestly my dislike comes from a very personal place as a queer person who was in an abusive relationship. I never cheated on my abuser, so Stolas cheating on Stella will never sit right with me. It’s just gross seeing so many people go “well Stella’s bad so it’s ok if Stolas cheats cus Stella deserves it.” Even in the show Stolas just doesn’t care about the cheating cus “it was an arranged marriage so it’s ok.” I wouldn’t mind if Blitz’s hang up about Stolas was his willingness to cheat. I am a huge Huskerdust fan tho, they don’t have the class difference that Stolitz has but it is similar in that it’s two damaged people coming together. It even has that tsundere thing they’re trying to do with Blitz but better. Idk if you plan to talk about Stolitz more but it would be interesting to see a video comparing the two relationships.
I think that in s2e6, the scene where fizzaroli and blitz are talking and blitz says that he believes that stolas doesn't care about him and looks genuinely upset about it (“hey! stolas only cares about having a rugged peasant [that line is p explicit] it’s nothing… you know… sigh it’s nothing else.”) also, the new music video, asmodius's interaction with stolas in s2e6, ozzies and the text messages shared in s2e4 show that stolas has strong romantic feelings as well as sexual i agree that the ship has a lot of problems and is written in a very toxic way but i think it's making room to improve, i for one am very excited for the stolitz episode coming up (the full moon)
Agreed! They may have issues now but maybe that's the point! They're beating it down only for the ship to be rising above the ashes after we all think it's over between them. I hope that's the case because I'd love for Stolas and Blitz to work things out
Honestly, I have felt the same way sense this show started trying to become more romantic: Everyone has kept talking about their romance like its this thing that has been around sense the start, but honestly I have never seen that. I always felt an episode has been missing because all of a sudden, Stolas is madly in love with Blitz and wants him to "look his way". Like there is only one (possible two) moments when Blitz blushes at Stolas. There was no slow burn or outright moment of affection that they BOTH shared and loved, all ive seen is just Stolas being a fanboy over this guy hes fucking. Thats it.
In my opinion, Stolitz Romance suffers from the "fanfiction" syndrome: people who have no idea about relationships (and especially healthy relationships) write about their personal ideal of a relationship. Result: sex, sex, sex (Blitz and Stolas never had a real everyday life as a couple) and lots of drama (kidnapping, divorce, attempted murder) to illustrate the supposed depth of a relationship, but when you take all that away, there's nothing left of this "ideal relationship". Vivziepop, as a creator, belongs to that generation of relationship ineptitude, which is why it goes down well with Gen Z people. People who have had real relationship experiences, on the other hand, won't feel much addressed by the Stolitz romance.
This is a perfect explanation of why this ship is so bad for me. Like, Valentino and Angel Dust have an extremely similar dynamic but in Hazbin it’s actually portrayed as abusive by the show. I have no idea what happened with Helluva Boss to lean into this ship so hard but it’s making the show way less enjoyable because of it.
I know they're gonna be endgame, but i think it would be so funny if they brought in a new characters for stolas and blitz to be with 💀 The writing for their relationship just kinda screams Fujoshi 😭 like making stolas' wife a bitch for no reason just so it makes it okay for stolas to cheat on her, you know?? and their whole relationship based on sex alone, idk anyone else see what i see 😅??
I really wish the show stuck to the original premise of being an episodic dark comedy about a rag-tag team of assassins and Stolas was just the annoying, horny owl guy that Blitz had to put up with. Now, it just turned into a fanfiction of itself which I didn’t even think was possible for a show to do before I started watching Helluva Boss.
I just found an article on how to write a romantic relationship, and one of the things that has stated is that Sexual Attraction Does Not Mean Love. And by that I mean it doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to write a romantic relationship, it has to be more than that.
As much as I do love this I would have to agree because I feel like most of us the fans go with off of off of like comics or fanfiction that and sometimes it can be hard between what the reality of the show and what the fanfiction actually give
Tbh, I agree. Iirc, I mentioned in the video, I used to be in the fandom and I used to read a lot of comics of the NSFW variety featuring Stolas and Blitz, and they way they’re portrayed in fanon is usually quite nice and often SO much different than in canon material fr.
@@rottika indeed, I read lots of fanfic and I binge rewatched HB to remember the plot to watch the new episodes. I can confirm: Stolitz in fanon: 🥺❤😍💖✨️ Stolitz in canon: 👿🗑😱☠️ ⛓️
I was honestly scared to say that I "disliked Stolitz" because I thought I might get attacked, or something. Glad to hear that somebody's talking about it tbh.😥
The Stolizt ship literally remind me of those m/m fanfics where they’ll make the female love interest into either an idiot, a mega bitch, or sometimes even both. But the different between fanfics and this show is that. Hellva Boss is way more professional than fanfics. Anyone can create a fanfic by using their phone, computer, and etc and MAJORITY of the time they don’t earn any money from it. But with Hellva Boss, not only are they’re getting money for it. But it also have a sister show that is now on Amazon. Btw I’m not saying fanfics are never good. I’m just saying it’s mostly written by people who never written anything before or are literally children. Again not dissing fan fic.
The thing that bothers me about Stolitz is how their relationship was retconned into "they knew each other as kids" and Stolas is now a sad uwu boy instead of a powerful, villainous demonic entity. I miss when both characters were awful people and awful to each other. There could've been so much nuance and character growth to these two.
That wasn`t a retcon, just a actual backstory. Nah he is still a flawed person. They still are awful people.
When was it previously confirmed that they didn't meet as kids?
@@gigachad3925 fitting name ngl
@@Jdudec367 lmao thanks. nice to see someone else here with genuine media literacy.
@@Jdudec367 Awful just like the show's creator
My biggest issue is the way they made Stolas a completely innocent good guy. Even excluding the pilot he was morally wrong at times, like when he treated his daugther poorly, made that deal with Blitzo and cheated on Stella. They either retconned or ignored all of that up until now and it's tbh so annoying, I highly prefered the morally ambiguous Stolas rather than the "uwu poor angsty tragic boi" Stolas.
Stolas being morally ambiguous is such a good concept!!
@@brianawong312 I mean, they DID do that. Kind of. Stolas was morally ambiguous, but then they just kinda retconned it or at the very least heavily excused it.
I don't like how they made Stolas be in his 30s just so the "love at first sight when they were kids" trope could happen. He's based on an actual demon from mythology that humans irl wrote about a long time ago, so I figured he'd be hundreds or maybe thousands of years old. I just got that vibe during the first season. Even Lucifer's daughter is supposed to be around 200 years old (unless that got retconned) so it feels kind of weird
@@Rey_Palpatine I agree! His age should have at least been explained. A popular fan theory is that Stolas isn't the only Stolas, but a legacy or a title in a sense. If you take on the grimoire and duties of Stolas you become "a Stolas". If they at least gave us some kind of explanation why he is so weirdly young it would have been great tbh.
Also jeez, sorry for my harsh words, but screw the "Love at first sight as kids" trope. It sucks and it is kind of weird to me-
I thought their relationship was supposed to be a "an awfully toxic relationship with weird power imbalances, but they actually fall in love and work on fixing it" and adding that "child love on first sight" angle adds nothing?? Come on, it was so unnecessary and just makes me cringe.
@@helion_ut I just remembered this, but Stolas being so young is also kind of funny bc some of the lyrics in his songs make it seem like he's supposed to be "over the hill" or something. Really bro, all your stories have been told, except for one, when you're not even middle aged by human standards yet?? And that song was in a flashback when Octavia was way younger so he was probably in his 20s there, if he's in his 30's currently.
Even the song in season 2 episode 1 has lines about him showing his age, and things all of a sudden being exciting again. Imo, those feel more like sentiments that would be expressed by someone who has lived for _many_ years.
And I agree, the dynamic was more interesting before it was revealed that Blitzø and Stolas met as kids. It seems like it was just an easy way out to make the relationship look more wholesome and tell the audience "see, it's not just freaky sex in exchange for the book, there's an innocent and cute foundation underneath, look at them being adorable little kids together"
Stolitz as a relationship lost me at them having met as kids, to a point I like to pretend that it never happened. Their dynamic was so much more interesting without that detail.
it was so visible it was a last minute idea as well lol
@@torpid5092 YEAH the first one is worse and probably true lol
I honestly think it would've just been better that they met each other as adults making transaction contract for the book (permitted to enter the human world) etc.
Sure, childhood to lovers trope is okay. But I just don't like it when it comes to Stolitz, yknow?
The worst thing is they shove it into our faces they're friends, no only STOLAS views it as that and that camera shot going in circles was a pitiful attempt to have me think they're having fun, Viv seriously thinks we're idiots if we cannot understand that Blitz was just using him to get the stash of expensive items in Paimon's Palace and didnt care for him and just because he says he'd hire him, does not mean it is a promise or would stay as that.
Sameeee i wish they would just say u know what this is not cannon anymore 😭😭
Stolas is just angelval if Viv made Valentino sympathetic
After watching hazbin, I thought this too, and it’s really strange that they coexist in the way they do, portrayed as they are by the same creator 😭???
Viz wants us to feel sorry for Valentino despite the fact that he abused Angel Dust both physically and emotionally?
@@samflood5631 no, Valentino has had zero scenes where Viz or the writers have tried to make him sympathetically (as of episode 4). Heck, in the old insta account he killed a dog and cracks vox's screen/face, he's a villain through and through who just happens to act whiny sometimes
@@greyblueme9711 Sorry, that was just some of the fans who ship Angel Dust with Valentino as a part of their sick and disturbing Yaoi fanfic.
Valentino is anything but sympathetic
I hate to say this, but I feel like the only reason people ignore the unbalanced power dynamic, sexual coercion, sexual harassment, and classism is because it’s a gay ship. It’s the same thing with the Catradora ship between Adora and Catra. People will excuse blatant physical and psychological abuse because it’s an LGBT ship. I get it, not a lot of representation is given to homosexual relationships in comparison to heterosexual. That shouldn’t excuse the ignorance towards these problems though. If this were a heterosexual pair partaking in one-sided sexual harassment and sexual coercion, people would be pointing out the obvious.
hm idk I still ship two characters from another show that ended up toxic and I probably shouldn't ship them but I still do and they are both straight so maybeee but not in my case. I got so used to LGBT relationships that I see nothing strange about them or anything more special from the standard straight couples.
also the one that turned toxic was the woman so idk if that changes anything but now I am jumping on the topic of sexism 💀lol I am sleepy Imma sleep
I disagree tbh, there are plenty of straight relationships in other media that are also pretty toxic but are treated as normal, take the twilight saga for example. What I think actually happens is that most of the fans of helluva boss are still young, hormonal teens, that end up ignoring the obvious problematic behaviours because they find the way this pairing is framed 'hot', or whatever.
I agree with your point but disagree on Catradora, because, while it's not my OTP or anything, I do think that they handled the abuse and messiness with nuance and with all the cards on the table.
Redemption os a loaded word so I will say growth and accountability. Catra was a victim and an abuser and its okay and good to depict her learning and changing. She isn't a Saint, but I do think that where they end up by the final season is a good place. If they got together before that, I would agree.
I agree, although there are still some m/f ships that exist and ARE toxic.
BL ships still usually take the brunt of it e.g some people still think Killing Stalking is a gay romance when it’s literally just a straight man sexually and non-sexually abusing a gay man
Edit: Grammar
Edit Edit: I only brought up m/f ships because other people were saying they also had toxic ships
Fully agree.
As a gay person it's lowkey gross and normalizes these unhealthy dynamics. Stolitz alone seems incredibly stereotypical and fetish-y as well.
I've created a writing rule: If changing the gender of characters makes your story seem weird and toxic, it may indicate that your story is already toxic. Imagine if Blitz were a girl facing constant discrimination , forced to have sex with a powerfull man to maintain her business and, in the same time, that man is cheating on his wife and neglecting his daughter because of you. Doesn't it resemble a toxic, Wattpad-like YA romance? While I enjoy Helluva Boss and Stolits, it's worth acknowledging that if the characters weren't a gay couple, less people would be rooting for them.
Edit : After watching the last episode (season 2 episode 8) I wanted to say that I really liked what Viv did with Stolitz. They really needed that talk and to take some time appart to then maybe have a healthier relationship. I have hope that Stolitz will finaly become good
YES. THATS THE POINT. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE WEIRD AND TOXIC TO SHOWCASE THE GENUINE FLAWS THESE TWO CHARACTERS HAVE SO THEY CAN GROW. ESPECIALLY STOLAS. Like this kind of relationship is toxic either way and is only seen as good by people who haven't yet realized the IMPLICATIONS of what stolas is doing. like go watch season 1 again with this mindset and you will slowly see stolas going from constantly talking abt sex, to flirting and pet naming, to showing genuine care for blitz, to ACTUALLY REALIZING HOW FUCKED UP THIS ALL WAS when he basically blackmailed blitz into sex.
This was never about it being a gay couple, its about the toxic environment and situations you get put in when blackmailed by someone of higher power than you, regardless of their motives.
I mean you said it yourself, it resembles a ya wattpad fic. So it would definitely have a lot of fans
That isn't too surprising since the creator probably grew up on watt pad fics and tumblr too, and probably never realized how weird and toxic some of it's themes were.
@@FlowersAreCoolTake your meds kiddo.
@@KyllingThyme I'm going to defend the things I like from blatant misinformation and twitter echo chambers until I die, Bite me.
The show would be so much better if Stella wasn’t cartoonishly evil. Helluva Boss literally screams that she didn’t want this either. But why would a female/fem presenting character have any depth in a Vivziepop show?
Never thought about fem/female characters being not as filled with depth as others. I wonder if that's a personal trauma/issue with Viv herself if she struggles with it. It can be easier to work through problems if you do so through the lens of something less close to home.
I don't think Luna is written in this way, but I know people have had issues with Moxxie.
I think Charlie and Vaggie are interesting, but aren't a healthy dynamic as they're made out to be, though, they don't have to be, because they could grow and create a healthy one.
Just ignoring Hazbin hotel per the norm.
@@vixxcelacea2778I doubt it's trauma. I think she just likes watching men kiss a little bit too much.
@@somethingclever4297so a fujoshi with a lot of money to kill?
@@BriarPatchNyrawhat female in Hazbin hotel has any depth be so forreal
I find Stolitz a very uncomfortable ship
@@Wenoe3your whole personality is uncomfortable
I thought it was cute and funny at first, and I hoped we could see how they first met and fell in love... but when the moment came, the writers kinda fumbled it a bit. The uncomfortableness for me came from how horny he was for blitzø when he was around his daughter.
-Okay I commented that stuff before I watched the whole vid, and now that I saw the whole video, I got some of those criticisms right, but I really didn’t realize how uh... bad the relationship actually was. I now realize I had rose tinted glasses on. 😭
@@superfan24 LMFAO THEY DELETED THEIR COMMENT
@@tweettweetyweety well i still see it
We all need to accept that the only reason EVERYONE IN THE FANDOM ships and roots for stolitz is because its a gay ship. A man is cheating on his wife and neglecting his daughter but fans all normalize it because he's cheating with a man.
If stolas was cheating with a woman, everyone would hate him and possibly the woman too and they wouldn't hate on his wife as much. As much as his wife is a villain and quite frankly a bitch, she has the right to be mad, people seem to ignore that...
Misogyny, its gross asf
For real though, I like Stolitz but when it comes to ships, it's nothing new when women are demonized for getting in a ship or she's labelled as the "b*tch" I'm a guy and I don't like the treatment about women when it comes to "Fujoshis".
Can we also talk about how the whole I.M.P business thing was completely replaced by this trash ?
"Helluva Boss" makes no sense anymore, this is just a toxic relationship sitcom. "Helluva Bastard" would be more fitting imo.
Helluva Loss
@@SpoopySquid Fair take.
“Helluva lost in the plot”
@@fall_tea8857 "helluva lostwave/lost media"
exactly! it’s started to go down hill
i mean yeah some of the episodes where it’s not focusing on the assassin business are kinda interesting but it would be fun if they made a couple more episodes of them doing their job
My main issue with this entire Stolas cheating on Stella situation is that Stolas is WAY more at fault for Stella’s rage and behavior than anything. But the show glosses over it and is all like “Oh look at this bitchy lady screaming 'cause her husband cheated on her”. I’m only saying this because we haven’t seen much of Stella (another writing issue) but Stella and Stolas seem to at least TOLERATE each other before Blitzo came in. She and Stolas had a child. The show in the first season made it look like they at least had cute moments together without romance, but they switched in the second season without explanation. From Stella’s perspective, she tried her hardest to be at least a decent wife and Stolas was trying to be a decent husband. Stolas cheating on her out of the blue ruined everything. It embarrassed the entire family and in her perspective, it’s a fate worse than death in the high-class world. And the writers could let us have empathy for her and her situation. This is how it could’ve been if the show stuck with the first-season portrayal. And it was thrown out the window in season 2 for a villain that the writers try too hard to make the audience dislike. She didn’t have much going for her in season 1 and they could’ve made her an interesting abusive character with justifiable anger but not behavior. But they want us to root for Stolas for the wrong reasons. Her writing issues connect to that of Blitzo and Stolas and it’s a shame a dynamic like this is so poorly written and mixed up. No matter who you root for or what your opinion is on these characters, you have to admit it feels very thrown together and rushed. All of these characters are made to either be disliked or liked by the audience and it makes them too simplified and/or predictable.
EDIT
I say this in the nicest way possible: For those of you talking about season 2, read my comment again carefully. I’m not saying that she isn’t abusive either. But her anger is justified. The way some of y’all are so mad about my opinion and personal take is crazy. If you don’t like the comment, just don’t reply. Dislike it for all I care.
Honestly, so true. I think it’s made even worse when you consider the fact that Stella was probably just as forced into marriage as Stolas was, and her entire job and purpose is to essentially just be a walking womb and birth an heir. Stolas, at least, has a job that he does, but Stella is very much relegated to just being high-class arm candy whose entire purpose has been already filled. It sucks that the writers aren’t even making an attempt to show things from her perspective and instead exaggerate her into a cartoony misinformed caricature of what they think an @bus3r is so that Stolas looks good in comparison. :’D
I totally agree with that, i would Just add that Stella was already a Bit behaving Like that, Like in Season 2 Episode 1 there is a Picture of Stella as a Kid where She is raging, and (i think in the Same Episode, could be a different one though) She is trying to Hit Stolas, right after he wanted the divorce and it Looks Like it was Not the First time, but thats Just speculation. Maybe She Just aged Out of the rage Thing mostly and Stolas cheating on her Unleashed that again.
Okay true but we all forget the elephant in the room Stella LIKES making stolas miserable even when he's gone out of his way to give them a comfortable life, as so put so elegantly by stolas "this women has never given 2 shits about me" and I highly doubt she cares about her own daughter. So let's not be so quick to dismiss the bad things Stella has done
That is true, but often in arranged mariage the married rarely love each other, plus we learned that in the episode '' the circus '' Stolas did not like Stella, neither did she, at the '' not divorced party '' SHE called him pathetic, and that was before he cheated on her, in other episodes, it is also mentioned by stolas "that this woman never gave two sh1ts about him or they're mariage" wich mae sme think that they never appreciated each other, and, that ''whole child'' wasn't born from their love or mariage but Octavia was born for one reason, to enhirit the lead of the Goetia's. I do like seeing Stella's character but i feel like fans really sugarcoat the whole situation, Stolas shouldn't have cheated on her, but she doesn't care, she just want to make him miserable, and if she always was like this, knowing that Stolas prefers men (especially Blitz) he has acte dlike everything was fine when she (Stella) seemed the same b4 the whole situation. So yes, it is partially true, but with all those elements we know that Stella was a bad person from the start, so yes we did see earlier "cute moments" such has family portraits, were neither of them smile, making me think they only tolerated each other but nothing more. Hope it's understandable haha, english isn't my first language
People call Stella a b!tch and a sh!tty wife, yet Stolas is literally the same thing as her. He cheats on his wife and more than half of the show thinks it’s okay. Like imagine being cheated and your husband/boyfriend doesn’t feel bad at all for it. I would be pissed just like Stella. Yes Stella trying to kill Stolas isn’t the best idea but he brought it down to himself. And he seems to be just as ignorant to his daughter as Stella (if she even is ignorant towards Octavia) Stolas literally broke his family and is making his daughter even more depressed. Like he literally made her uncomfortable at Loo Loo Land yet he still hasn’t learned his lesson. I don’t get why he has to do this. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an episode where Octavia actually lets out her anger at him.
i hate how they twisted stella, making her unredeemable asshole, even though in the start of the series she was genuinely upset at stolas cheating and octavia said in one of the earlier episodes that they didn't hate each other until stolas cheated. they completely retconned this in favor of making stolas a GOOD guy. look at him, he's right for cheating, she's awful and unhinged and dumb! this trope of "a horrible bad bad woman is in the way of cute little gay couple" already got old and is extremely misogynic.
When was it confirmed by the canon that Stella wasn't a horrible person? We were never shown anything other than her being angry/vindictive. In her first appearance it's clear that she isn't really mad about Stolas' betrayal (it wasn't "you cheated on me! how could you disregard our relationship?"; it was "you fucked an IMP and made us look bad"). Stella is a noble who wants to keep up appearances. Octavia's line about her parents not hating each other does not do Stella any favors because it's later confirmed that Stolas was actively bearing with Stella's abuse so that Octavia could have an illusion of peace/normalcy. If at some point Stella and Stolas genuinely didn't hate each other, then the writers would have SHOWN that dynamic via a flashback. It really wouldn't have been hard to include little scenes that made Stella more redeemable, but the writers didn't do that which clearly indicates they always intended for her to be a complete asshole. They had an arranged marriage and they were never emotionally commited to each other. So no, Stella isn't a retcon. It may not be the route you prefer, which is valid. I would definitely enjoy an alternate version of the show with Stella being more nuanced. But, simply preferring a different interpretation is not the same as claiming retconning.
As for Stolas now being the unambiguous good guy, that's also not true. The show makes it clear that Stolas still made a mistake by cheating. It put strain on the household and negatively impacted Octavia. What he should have done was divorce Stella as soon as Octavia was born. Stella being a complete villain does not absolve Stolas of all blame, and the show knows that.
@@gigachad3925 in the flashbacks (which were shown later in the series, remind you), it's clearly shown that stella yelled at stolas and abused him from the very start, even in front of other people. how would octavia think that her parents didn't hate each other in that case? why would stella pretend if she's so evil and stupid? she never tried to hide it in the first place. it would be ooc for her to act nice to stolas in front of octavia, since in flashbacks she only thinks of her as an egg she needs to produce and clearly doesn't love her. stella and stolas even slept in the same bed in the start of the series, but after that one time they quickly made stolas sleep in a separate room with no explanation.
@@vodach3357 In said flashbacks, Stella was shown to have more of a blunt/dismissive attitude toward Stolas directly. It's clear she didn't like him but didn't really want too much time interacting with him. She didn't yell about him or get extremely mean until drunk while talking to other people, notably while Octavia wasn't present. She was always insulting and passive agressive, but she didn't become so extremely antagonistic to Stolas directly until he slept with Blitz, and thus threatened their reputation by having sex with an imp. Obviously she wasn't ever trying to pretend to be nice, but the more subdued dynamic we saw in the flashback isn't that hard for Stolas to mask for Octavia's sake. All he had to do was play off her insults and not escalate.
@@gigachad3925 so you're saying octavia saw her mother regularly insult her father and her reaction was "they get along so well!" only because stolas didn't say anything back?.. i don't see how it makes sense
when does Octavia say that? cuz I thought they never loved eachother because it was an arranged marriage /gen
Viv NEEDS more competent writing. I used to really love her stuff (die young fans rise up) but it genuinely feels like her leaning into fanservice territory is killing this series rapidly. I know fans will continue to eat this stuff up but more and more people are (rightfully) criticizing some of her dogwater character choices. I straight up couldn't finish some of the newer episodes just bc of the fact she backtracked HARD on characters personalities, experiences, and relationships. The whole loona thing gets on my nerves more than anything.
There's also the issue of the overuse of vulgar humor in an attempt to seem more "mature" or "funny". Many ppl try to defend this by comparing it to family guy which.. doesn't work. FG doesn't take any stories or characters even an ounce seriously, it's there solely for comedy. Viv, on the other hand, *wants* you to care about these characters and flesh out their plots. But that doesn't work when you start retconning genuine developments for bs fan pandering nonsense.
To be fair, sometimes it's fun to watch a trash fire. Drama is entertaining. So even if it's not a healthy ship, it's fun to watch anyway.
it is also possible that Viv or the writers themselves don't know what a healthy relationship looks like and/or it's not even their intent. You can ship two people or more who absolutely are toxic because it creates drama. Especially given that none of these people are real, it's relatively harmless, so long as people understand it's fantasy and there are so many red flags. Red is a fun color to look at from a safe distance where no one is actually being harmed.
@@vixxcelacea2778 The problem is when all the characters back stories and/or plots revolve solely around daddy issues and relationships. Problematic or flawed characters aren't really an issue in fictional media, in fact it's nice to see flaws in otherwise perfected spaces.. but when the creator is very clearly showing the fact she's never known a strong father figure & projecting it onto nearly EVERY character so far, that's an issue. It's only fun when it's occasional, not when it occupies the entire plot space and screen time of every. single. character. every. single. episode.
Besides that, the characters that aren't rife with daddy and relationship issues (ie Millie) are made bland and boring bc Viv can't stand to write interesting and healthy characters lmao
one of my biggest criticisms of the show has been "stolas is exalted to be someone above criticism because he is a sad gay british boy and everyone is mean to him". i hate that both writers and fans alike want people to pity him and baby him so badly, when he isnt even a good person, husband, or father. he would be so much more interesting if the team LEANED INTO the fact that he's a bad person, instead of shaping the plot around how "sad good boy" he is. also im glad someone else sees what i saw from truth seekers. that dream sequence? i dont know how people watched that and thought "omg blitz loves stolas!!!" HUH??? hes in chains, on his knees, and frowns when stolas pulls him close. i also dislike how they kind of took stella and just made her abusive for no reason? just to make stolas look like the good guy ? ?? ? ? like im no stella sympathizer, but wouldnt she be more interesting with actual nuance..? i dont know. im all for exploring toxic or weird relationship dynamics. i love it, in fact. but the writers seem to want to justify stolas' abuse constantly.
I see we have the same mind seats
Saaaaammme
Not to mention that Stolas has the nerve to abandon his royal responsibilities just so he can force himself on Blitz, or have Blitz force himself on the Prince. If Stolas was made King, the Pride Ring could be left in a terrible state since he would spend most of this time sleeping with Blitz instead of ruling Hell. At least Stella would have been a more competent queen since she’s the kind of person who would put her family aside and focus on what’s best for her demons. Sure she’s a stuck up noble, but so are most monarchs and aristocrats.
That’s honestly a super good rule
@@superfan24SEATS???? ☠️☠️☠️☠️
$10 says they pull a "Starco" and establish these new characters for them and make the relationships good for them, then completely undo everything in 1 episode so the 2 most people ship end up together.
I gotta be real, I think that the problems with Stolitz are as a result of inconsistent writing. Viv said herself that Stolas was written as a villain in the pilot and early episodes, but when she asked Brandon Rogers if Stolas and Blitz would be a cute couple, he said yes, thus it was changed. And because of this, I think that they didn’t really know how to accommodate for it going forward. I will say that the new music video does make some earnest attempts to clean up the writing, with Stolas acknowledging that he’s in the wrong for using Blitz in such a manner (hence the line ‘I know better now I must give you this choice’ and him asking Asmodeus for a crystal so Blitz won’t rely on his book), but it still feels cluttered. I just think that if you’re gonna change an important facet of a relationship, that transition should be more natural, not wedged into the plot last minute. And this is coming from someone who likes the show. I anticipate what they do in the next episode, one that’s supposed to be centered on their relationship.
I was wondering why exactly I felt a little iffy about Stolitz rather than invested in it like other fellow Helluva Boss enjoyers, and I think you've summed it up for me. I still had the idea of a morally grey Stolas that does some harmful things but genuinely wants to be closer to Blitzø, but the writing is just everywhere. Here's to Hazbin possibly being better.
this is what happens when you teach an amateur writer the words “i ship it” for the very first time. Really the whole show should’ve been confined to a couple loose Google docs and a proof of concept in ibispaint, but, such is life
this comment has the most sense put into it i feel. also the fact that they got such big names in so much of the first season who can't be around too long just even for their one recording session that they had to take what they got. they could probably honestly de-canonize a few of the earlier episodes at that rate
Stolitz was a fascinating dumpsterfire I was invested in. Pilot changes are normal; but it was with S2 that it felt so jarring to me.
There were flaws in S1. But S1 at least was clear Blitzo was uninterested. He also felt trapped in this transaction. Stolas romanticized and sexualized Blitzo because of his loveless marriage. Both felt fascinating because Blitzo wants to push away, Stolas wants to pull. EP 7 made it clear they were not an uwu sweet relationship. S2 took a nosedive by pretending ep 7 didn't happen; and felt like they want to absolve Stolas of his faults by having him love Blitzo all this time cuz childhood crush.
What bothered me is Stolas does not really feel like an ominous prince of Hell. He was so interesting! He had so much mystery that we could unravel through IMP. EP 6 was my favorite because we got to see how eldritch he is. He still could like Blitzo and have had his own hidden agenda as a villain. But nah, steamroll his character into uwu softboy who just wants Blitz to look his way.
I think Stoliz's main problem is that the writers changed their mind from wanted from Stoliz (and the show). At the beginning, Helluva Boss was just a serialized show that picked when and what continuity it used (and it still does that) and Stoliz was just two assholes exploiting each other. Pretty simple stuff. But than they changed their mind and suddenly wanted Stoliz to be something more series and complex, but they haven't yet taken the time to acknowledge the inherent problems with the relationship. These problems didn't matter as much when the show wasn't as serious and complex. They were just two assholes. I think that's part of why The Circus exists. It's a giant retcon. That's not inherently bad, but it is something to take note off. On the quick topic of Stella, some fans say they ruined her to make Stolas seem better. And while I don't think that's 100% true (lets be honest here, not only did Stella not have much of a character to begin with, but we also had no idea what their dynamic was actually like before the affair), I can DEFINITELY see why fans thought that, as that's what it feels like. The show also hasn't really explored her side of the arraigned marriage (I do like how Stolas says a couple times in both The Circus and Western Energy how he would feel bad for cheating on her if it did actually hurt her. I think that was really good idea). They could still have Stella be a villain while still giving her some nuance. But, so far, they haven't really given her that. And that's a problem for the show that Helluva Boss wants to be.
I do believe that they changed their minds on the kind of character that they wanted Stolas to be. In the early episodes, he's treated more like an annoying sex pest that Blitzo has to put up with to keep his business, and Blitzo is always shown as being irritated whenever he has to deal with him.
The first season also emphasized how toxic and manipulative their arrangement was, the second season treats them like they're a genuine couple and the only things keeping them from being together are Blitzo's insecurities and outside factors.
And all of this is inherently as symptom of a much larger problem: the whole show is a giant retcon, and incomplete in a lot of areas. Like, the pitch we were given was 'demons work together in squad-dynamic to assassinate target, get big money and big respect'. More or less the premise were we shown n' told up front. While the show has retained the slapstick, crass humor, and violence...it's barely about the squad at all. So many episodes end up being laser focused on some combination of exes or dad issues, or *both*, and the squad dynamic isn't even fleshed out, which is *bizarre* going into Season 2 and onwards. Blitz interacts with Loona, Moxie interacts with Blitz, Millie interacts with Moxie, and that's...about it. The interactions are obviously a two way street, but it's so binary that the squad feels like it's composed of weird cliques that are together out of narrative convenience than a genuine bond or comradery.
And as you've said with the retcons, a lot of characters feel like they're being heavily favored and pampered by the creator, ambiguity being written out after-the-fact, drawing attention instead to how sad and wronged or guilty they feel...only to do nothing with the emotional weight of the feelings they're dealing with in the next episode and pretend like it hardly even happened (see: Blitz's exchange with Stolas over text and in person after Season 1's finale). They don't change, or grow, or learn from their struggles. Hell, Loona talks to Octavia about how important her dad's genuine love is...how much his attempts to be there for her MEANS to her. And she racks his fucking balls the moment he tries to hug her and its time for the show to be funny again (emotional pacing/whiplash being another glaring problem).
I don't mind goofy slap-stick shoot team. I don't mind melodrama demon cry sesh. I don't even mind crude humor hee hee toss puppy in fire. But the series trips over itself trying to juggle all of these facets on incomplete characters with anemic or straight up absent character dynamics, and worst of all: there's really not much of an over-arching story. That's what I find truly most damning about all this effort to seem complex and drama filled, and teasing plot threads like they'll amount to much more than what we've scene. None of it is truly contributing to an over all goal or conflict that the squad is facing, individually or otherwise. And as much as I love the art, the music, the hypnotic way the show sucks you in...I find it almost pointless to keep watching for yet another episode about relationships issues.
To Stolitz fans: I get it… I really do. I sincerely want to like it as well. It has all the elements that I crave in romances.
It’s about two flawed people struggling at life, in a toxic relationship, making mistakes, and eventually making it out stronger and better. It’s a scenario where both of them end up stronger as individuals AND a duo.
But… it just doesn’t feel right to me.
Blitz really seems genuinely uncomfortable in MOST encounters.
It really doesn’t seem like a man in love who is afraid to get hurt. It’s more of a worker that feels that his livelihood depends on entertaining the sexual whims of his boss.
While Stolas is significantly more affectionate, I often wonder what he likes in Blitz aside from the taboo nature of it and the sense of freedom he gets. Would Stolas feel the same love if he encountered a different sexy male imp? Blitz is right to feel insecure because I’m also unsure what Stolas likes that is Blitz-specific
On top of that, the shows addressing of the cheating also feels shallow.
Instead of adding the drama of “I did something bad. It was wrong of me to cheat on my spouse… what should I do???”, the show really tries to justify the relationship by making Stella an abusive monster, “forcing” him into a situation where the cheating has to happen.
I wish Stella was a realistic antagonist. She is a noble that wants to keep up appearances, does not like Stolas in the slightest, and just had a kid, again, to keep up appearances. If she was also morally grey, it would’ve added so much more conflict and nuance in the relationship.
I personally wished that Stella was ironically the better parent while Stolas was spending more and more time with Blitz. It would’ve introduced some interesting contrast.
Even if Stella only acted purely to keep up appearances, being in front of guests would mean that Stella would have to at least PRETEND to like Stolas and Octavia. She would want Octavia to be well educated and well groomed. She may be both emotionally distant and controlling, but could’ve been the comparatively better parent than Stolas who might not be emotionally or even physically present for her. (That would also add interesting conflict to Octavia’s story who isn’t someone who “hates her loving dad”, but someone who “hates her unknowingly neglectful dad who is conflicted and remorseful about it”
But that’s just me making up scenarios. Ultimately the writers can write the story they want. What’s the point of art if they’re not allowed to write that they have in mind? I doubt I could write something better.
Even if I could, that’s what fanfics are for lol
I also want to see Octavia and Stella interact more- maybe even have an episode together. There's actually not really any sign that Stella dislikes her daughter. Actually, in one episode where Stella is on the phone with stolas and stolas says "No, I'm not turning her against you!" Implying that Stella got angry at stolas for trying to make her daughter dislike her. In one clip stolas also says "Octavia is with her mother this weekend." So they do actually spend time- we just never see what their relationship is actually LIKE.
I would REALLY like an episode with the two of them- it might even maybe make Stella more likable (if she is a good mother) and is just extremely mad at her father. Octavia never actually INSULTS her mother or insinuates that she treats her badly. They could have a good relationship but we just never get to see it.
It needs development I agree with all your points I really like Stolitz however it like NEEDS more for other people to like it
I completely agree, they could have had her be at least slightly more manipulative considering she is a noble, maybe not feel much anymore, like Dennis, THE GOLDEN GOD.
@@acequeenofthedeck8431Maybe Stella would try to comfort Octavia on her feelings with Stolas cheating.
I think Via is just as upset with Stolas as Stella is.
I know right? It's like Vivzie has no idea how to write for women in this show! Millie gets shafted, Loona is a snark and a swear, Octavia is so rare to talk, and Stella was changed to be a angry woman straight from a yaoi.
14:45 "Not many imps start their own business"
Fizzarolli is the most famous person in Hell, Moxxie's father runs the mafia... it's not just the characters the world building is all over the place
fizzarolli as much as he is the most famous, majority of his money goes to mammon. rewatch mammons episode!
The key phrase being "not many" meaning that Blitz isn't the only one, but there are few. Being able to name 2 others isn't really a contradiction when it's stated that there's multiple.
@@syniimon-stix4022 still if you wanna write a story where class/cast struggle is something real having two characters from supposedly oppressed groups ruling over other "superior" class demons is something that breaks the tone of oppresion, as far as we've seen anyone can have a good life in hell if they work hard enough
@@guilhermeteodosio40 it's still not a contradiction. And we know very little about the pasts of these characters. How would you know that they worked hard to get where they are? As far as we know, Crimson could have been born into the Mafia just like Moxxie. And we know that Fizz is only famous because Mammon took advantage of his talent, not because of his own work but because Mammon is greedy and mass produced products to get the most amount of money possible. I'm not trying to say that this show is perfect, but I am saying that seeing a few imps who are firstly characters of interest and also relevant to the plot being a little more well off doesn't mean that the show is contradicting itself.
Fizzarolli didn't start any business, he works for Mammon's business as a mascot, and literally ONE imp rising up in organised crime, a system which is often the only place oppressed minorities can get a proper foothold (America fucking hated Italians at the time the Mafia was established) contradicts nothing.
13:07 I agree. You see, I was a victim of sexual coercion not that long ago. It’s so heartbreaking seeing these two portrayed as “lovers” when in reality it would be far better for them to not get together at all. I hate seeing shit like this, it makes me angry.
I’m sorry that happened to you
This is the exact reason I feel so uncomfortable about fans of the show (let's be real mainly teenagers) loving this ship so much. Like I get it fiction is fictional but it still feels like a romantaciaztion of a person in power taking advantage of someone else. Like fans of this ship will fight tooth and nail to defend it, and I don't want to be the guy who calls every toxic pairing as normalisation but with the amount of people saying this is completely normal and the audience being mostly teenagers I can't help but worry that this could have a real effect on people. This isn't a case of people not having media literacy this is a case of the show itself saying everything is fine and bending over backwards to show stolas as just a little guy who doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. I'm really sorry that happened to you and I hope you're doing well now, I know sexual coersion isn't taken as seriously as other forms of SA mostly because of how it's glorified. It makes me feel so wrong to see it used here as just a meet cute for the love interests
TLDR: I don't like how the power dynamic stolas has over blitz is forgiven and even romatacized
@@garbageenthusiasm4588 Sorry but that argument is always laughable when we talk about helluva where literally all characters are criminals, bad people, should be badly judged so there should not be any ship in hell and lovers would also not exist. they ended up in hell for a reason. so if you guy would simp for ANY CHARACTER would make you just as bad because you literally simp at an ex-criminal . but people discussing about an abusive relationship between 2 criminals in hell...
@@glasperle77not all of the characters are bad people. For example, there's Moxxie
Yes, he kills and murders, but it's only because he was born in a mafia family and works as an assassin in I.M.P. Im fairly sure if he didn't have those experiences in the show, he would actually be sorta saint. Also, they are Hellborn, not sinners. Just because they are born in hell doesn't mean that they will all be terrible people. Like literally the Princess of Hell Charlie is one of the most kindest and saint character of the franchise, yet she was born in hell
This s**t happens a lot in most Yaoi fan fiction like Tokyo Ghoul, Naruto, Durarara, Attack on Titan, Fire Emblem, Dragon Age, Baldur’s Gate 3, Persona, Bungou Stray Dogs and so much more. I shudder if there are any Yaoi fanfics of Spy x Family, Chainsaw Man, Hell’s Paradise and Zom 100 Bucket List of the Dead.
Honestly, I would have prefered if Stella wasn't evil and the reason she wants to kill Stolas is because of resentment built upon years of being stuck in a political marriage where both spouses are as unfit for each other as possible. Even for comedy purposes, it would have been funnier that way.
Just imagine if instead of the episode where Stolas is kidnapped both him and his wife end up in a Mr and Mrs Smith style fight, pointing every flaw they can think of. And Octavia watching everything.
That sounds like it would easily be one of the best episodes of the whole series in another universe
Yeah, the way it's done comes off more as just plain misogyny.
As a fan of the show, I was afraid at first that you'd just use the opportunity to list everything you dislike about it, but you were so incredibly respectful and made very good points.
Most of the fans have also come to the conclusion that their relationship isn't very healthy for either of them and I'm very glad you brought up the situation with Stella as well, as many fans - including myself - are mad about that.
They could've made Stolas such an interesting morally grey character, but instead of showing Stella as someone who was just as unhappy in their set-up marriage, as someone who had to fulfill the duty to produce an heir just like him, they decided to retcon the whole thing and instead go the "Oh, Stella has always been a bad person, so Stolas is totally in the right to cheat on her"-route. Maybe they were afraid people wouldn't like Stolas as much in that case, as most people dislike cheating, I dunno. It's still just such a shame because that decision came at the cost of Stella's entire character. Oh, well.
Anyways, great video, great arguments. Would love to see more content like this from you in the future 👌🏻
Definitely agree and really missed Stolas being an interesting morally grey character as that had potential to be interesting and iconic but it got thrown out for him into being a sad uwu woobie. Kinda wished they stuck with the original plan or idea that they had before the Stolitz ship got popular and Stella had to get no character at all to justify Stolas which honestly they could have kept them both morally grey and complex if they want both to be in the wrong but still get nuanced as that could have worked
My ex was like "omggg we are so like stolas and blitzo!" And idk what he meant (as i havent watched the show) but sense im now like 99.99% sure that these two have a toxic relationship so- confirms my therory that he was a shitty guy i shouldnt have dated-
Hhjjhkjkhl oh my god. The red flag to end all red flags right there.
Jesus
I would off myself from this planet if my s/o said that to me 😭
@@rottika that made me laugh- and yeah I should have seen it. These rose tinted glasses are really rose tinted /hj😅
@@hazzahannah my s/o and I happily cosplay as them together ❤
Personally, I seriously thought that Stolas was the Main Villain of the show when I first watched it. Yes, he loves Octavia and Stella isn't a saint herself, but I've seen villains, who would destroy an entire village, genuinely care for their kids (Mandrake from Epic for example) and have gotten hurt by a partner/potential partner (The Phantom in the novel version of The Phantom of the Opera). So when I saw season 1, I was looking at their relationship in a toxic light (Which is toxic to begin with, even if unintentional). For example, in the episode"Truth Seekers", I thought the trip scene was implying that Blitz was slowly developing some form of Stockholm Syndrome for Stolas, slowly poisoning his already damaged mental health and that his team would have to get him out of the toxic situation. So when I saw the last episode of season one and the rest of season 2, I was extremely confused.
(Side note: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the writers actually wanted to make Stolas the villain of the show at one point, but scrapped the idea for Stella instead.)
You’re correct
@@OpalGemstone33
Okay. Thanks for cleaning that up for me.
I love hearing people with opposing ideas
It helps me grow as a person
I'm so happy you're so honest about this😭😭 I was beginning to feel like I'm insane for thinking this beloved ship is actually a toxic shitshow. Like, there's potential for an interesting, deep dynamic, but Vivienne is allergic to making her pure sad baby boys anything than morally right and it's infuriating. Especially paired with how every woman in her shows is either a cardboard cutout with no flavor or an evil, irredeemable cardboard cutout with no flavor.
Honestly Stolitz started off very unhealthy even in the non-canon pilot you could tell Stolas didn't really think of Blitz as any more than a sex toy, but somewhere along the first season I feel like that changed? Still don't think it's healthy especially because after Stolas saved Blitz from the demon hunters, Blitz tried to use sex as a "thank you" method?? Idk seems kinda messed up to me.
well that’s mainly because in the pilot stolas and blitz had a different type of relationship where stolas was originally a villain
while in the first episode it completely changed off to how stolas just cheated
"Fun" fact, that's called the fawn response and is sometimes used by rape victims to make their abusers hurt them less.
The “met as kids and reconnected later” trope is something i like (purely bc i have ocs who are like that) but i think it has to be something that the writers had solidly in place since the START.
Also, the show focuses too much on Stolitz, especially in season 2. Like, remember when this show was about I.M.P., now it's just the Blitz and Stolas show, and Moxxie Millie and Loona are barely there.
I just wanna mention the story built up in the Pilot is a very different one than what we got. Yes it’s a pilot, but pilots are suppose to pitch the series. In the pilot Stolas is set up as an ANTAGONIST, he is written as a future obstacle for Blitzo to overcome.
Yet all the setup from the pilot eventually gets ignored, it’s not a show about imp assassins, it’s the stolitz show. I like Stolas and it fucking sucks the shows not self aware enough to realise he’s an antagonist, he’s in the wrong. This show man… it’s hard to watch
It really does suck cause Stolas was a villain, but they changed it because they wanted Stolitz.
tbf hardly anything from a pilot actually stays in the final show, it's just a common thing that tends to happen
@@Zoxiry Same cannot be said with Hazbin Hotel though.
Stolas being changed is normal pilot thing. But Helluva Boss going from IMP shenanigans to the Stolitz show? Nah.
Blitzo was my hook to watch the show. But I also really loved Stolas. He felt mysterious in both the pilot and EP 1. He is a Prince of Hell who might have other reasons for helping IMP. We got him in the pilot with Blitz going about a political candidate warning folks about global warming. It felt like he also hires IMP for his own gains.
He could still be an antagonist AND like Blitzo through careful writing. What I dislike so much is they absolve Stolas of so much, now it feels like his entire character is just being horny or sad over Blitzo.
Prob why Hazbin is stronger than Helluva Boss lol @@ShinGhidorah17
It feels like the show is gaslighting me into thinking that Stolas wanting their relationship to be more than just sex which he literally hasn’t yes now we see that he wants more but at the beginning he didn’t show any signs that he wanted more
Because it was a business thing.
@@SeinIshamiado I know but stolas now is trying to act like that he’s always wanted something more than this just be about business but when in fact in the beginning he didn’t show any signs or anything
@@Moonholic. You do know that people can change over time. Right? There's a thing called developing feelings?
@Moonholic. Haven't you ever spent time with someone that you had no romantic feelings for but then as you spend time with them, you find that you may like them To be more than friends?
@@SeinIshamiado But this isn't real life, it's a story. You need to see the progression not dump it in one episode at the end of the season and say " deal with it, this is what we're doing now ". Foreshadowing is a literary device ....
It was a great example of showing a dark and morally complicated pairing.
Then it became a gross depiction of what the tone seems to think is a messy but wholesome pairing.
I used to like helluva boss till they started trying to make Stolas more sympathetic and shove stolitz down my aching throat. I thought it would be nothing more than a gag at first, I was fine with that. Then all of a sudden it turns into some tragic forbidden love plot. I was never into Stolitz, so it sort of sucked to have it turn out the way it did. I still watch helluva boss, but I don’t love it as much as I used to. I’m just sorta there for Blitz since he’s my comfort character.
Honestly, I stopped watching Helluva Boss all together after the little car scene that Blitzo and Stolas had since it felt so incomplete and uncomfortable.
Not the kind of uncomfortable that means you wanna see what else happens, or the kind where you hope they can get past it; but the one where you feel like it should genuinely stop trying.
Like God, Loona and Octavia had more (sisterly) chemistry than these two and they've known each other for like 5 minutes plus a cigarette session.
I just want to see these two be happy because their dynamic COULD work, someone needs to give Stolas a reality check and Blitzo a bit of group therapy already.
It's uncomfortable to watch because it was designed to be. Everyone in it is uncomfortable. It's incomplete because neither knows what to do in the moment or has the spoons to continue after such a rough night. But it's very direct and accomplishes what is meant to. Stolas gets a big dose of reality and comes to necessary conclusions. Then he spends the first part of season two trying to get a solution to the coercion that he didn't realize was in play since he was knee deep in fantasy
@@zoenesin520 Then suddenly going straight to make it "Work normally" makes it bad, as it should be either a toxic relationship, or a Broken yet not toxic relationship trying to fix itself, not both
i was so convinced that ozzie’s was gonna start the beginning of the end for their relationship and have stolas actually seeing how he forces blitz’s hand but NoOoOoOoO it’s just a misunderstanding
I think if they wanted to make Stolas seem like he wasn’t just coercing Blitzø into sexual favors without changing anything that was shown on screen before Ozzie’s was by making Stolas talk back to Blitzø when he was saying Stolas was only using him. He could tell Blitzø about how he always tried to talk to him about regular stuff going on in his life but anytime he tried Blitzø never listened. By making Stolas say this to Blitzø it shows the audience that their transactions weren’t just sex and then Blitzø would leave. It would show that Stolas was genuinely trying to make his stay enjoyable and he was trying to deepen their bond because he loves him. I still don’t think that fixes everything because regardless if Stolas’ intentions were good or not, sexual coercion should never be justified but it at least shows that everything he was doing (even if it was in a very twisted way) was out of love but instead of doing something like that they proceeded to make him an uwu sad boi who has done nothing wrong when they could’ve made him morally grey with good intentions
tbh I think the reason Stolitz never bothered me as a ship all too much is that I never took the show that seriously. The problem with that is, that the show wants you to take it seriously. Despite how it started in the earlier episodes it's very clear that with the direction it's going the ship as well as other parts of the show are going to get more serious. I think that's why I do like the fact we aren't focusing on stolas and the ship all too much and the most recent shit has been about Fizz, the M&M's, etc because at least when it gets serious, it's not with the relationship. Their new music video is nice, I personally wish that the ship doesnt end up happening and what we get is stolas and blitz learning to love themselves since that's the most major personal troubles with their characters. Unfortunately I dont think we are gonna get it. I wanna have hope that the ship CAN work and become healthy but genuinely I don't think it can be
Perverted Bird and Imp Hookup GONE WRONG
Helluva boss be like:
Pretty much the series in a nutshell
Perverted bird and Imp hookup GONE WRONG(THE WIFE FOUND OUT AND CALLED A HITMAN)
Honestly, really good video!
As a fan of the show, I'm really happy to see people criticizing it out of genuine care and not just because "I don't like it so I have to find something that makes it so liking it is morally bad!".
I think most of the problems with this ship and HB in general is the fact that the creators don't really know how to create a show, lol.
Morally gray/immoral characters are so interesting to create and explore and it makes me so sad people feel like if their characters do bad things then they have to either try their damndest to justify it, or act like the characters are tainted and horrible and could never be redeemed.
I actually created one of my current characters (his name is Vorricall) because of this exact frustration.
My idea with him was "create a heavily flawed character and try to still make them sympathetic and redeemable without ignoring or minimalizing their faults." And I find developing and exploring characters like that incredibly fun and intriguing! it makes me wish other people were bold enough to try that as well.
Of course, you don't have to write flawed characters if you don't want to. But if you are going to create flawed characters and make them the main focus of your show, at least put effort into portraying them correctly.
I think all creations deserve a place to exist, but it's clear the creators of HB are trying to make Stolas seem like he has done nothing wrong and like Blitzø is being an ass for not reciprocating his feelings.
I do think that when it comes to Blitzø, the writers aren't trying to portray him as a tsundere and more as someone who hasn't really figured out how he feels yet.
The show is still ongoing, so there's still a chance to see the characters of Blitzø and Stolas develop and grow, and maybe we will even get to see Stolas (and the show in general) acknowledge his wrongs and apologize for them.
I do think the whole question of "why do they even like each other??" Is usually pretty stupid because love doesn't always have a clear, definite reason. But when it comes to stolitz, I think it's a really valid thing to ask.
I understand Stolas Liking Blitzø, but Blitzø liking Stolas just seems kinda stockholm-y. I have other theories, but I do think from the way it's portrayed in the narrative, it's the only explanation that really works. He at first showed no interest in him and even seemed genuinely uncomfortable to be around him, and then suddenly we're supposed to believe he loves him? I feel like the things leading up to him realizing his feelings for Stolas should have been clearer and actually portrayed in the narrative.
Again, I don't think any of the genuinely problematic aspects of this relationship were done out of malice, just out of poor writing.
I do hope to see the show improve, as I think it has a lot of potential and is really enjoyable most of the time!
That's said soso well and I totally agree!! I really like analyzing their relationship and I don't think it was the writer's intentions to make Blitz' feelings stockholm-y and it's fitting for his character to not be so obvious about them, however it really should've been made clearer how he actually feels about him. It's made pretty clear how Stloas feels, but for Blitz you really have to do a lot of analysing to even see that there is something.
A lot of criticism of Hellaverse also seems to arise less from actual flaws and more from "Vivzie dared to be female on the internet".
God I am so grateful someone finally broke this down. I was flabbergasted at the "forlorn heartbroken song" Stolas sang. Their entire "ship" read like shitty rp partners from my teens that tried to force romance
See, I never liked the ship to begin with, but I could never quite put my finger as to why. You put the words I couldn’t find in my mouth. And for that I thank you.
This also made me realize how much I really don’t like Stolas. He’s been kind of an entitled prick yet we’re supposed to sympathize with him throughout the entire series. One thing that really irks me though, is the fact that he doesn’t spend any time with his daughter, despite the fact that he promises that he will. The girl is already 17 and she doesn’t know how to conjure spells. At this point, she’ll be perfect for manipulation on Stella‘s end.
From what I understand, there will be conflict between her and Stolas later on however, it’ll only be because she finds out he’s over using his prescription. Which honestly isn’t a good enough reason. I’ve been in her shoes with a emotionally neglective, and I would’ve been much more pissed about the fact that he broke his promises to me.
This video is honestly so well done. Tbh I do hate blitz and stolaz all together but this video went into detail abt how Toxic they really are! I love it
I read somewhere stolas was supposed to be the villain, but the fan seem to like him so viv change thier dynamic and roles
Given the early stuff about him, that makes a lot of sense.
Apparently the story was that Stolas was one of the main villians, but then Viv asked Brandon Rodgers if these two would be cute together and he said yes. Then when they recasted Bryce as Stolas it changed Stolas’s story a lot
Every single word of this video is exactly how i feel. EVERY WORD, EXACTLY HOW I FEEL.
I can't believe Vivzie crammed three "tolerating sexual abuse power imbalance reliant on keeping the job" story arcs on top of their "oops all daddy issues, all the way down" the universe.
It’s honestly a shame. They’d have such an interesting dynamic if they were written well. I really did love the way things were portrayed in the new music video, they could be cute if they were, yknow, allowed to grow. And blitz actually liked him 💀. I think they’re both good characters on their own and COULD have a lot of chemistry.
I would've preferred if this dynamic stayed how it was in the pilot. The show wasnt taking itself too seriously which is what made their original dynamic so funny. They were both horrible people exploiting off of eachother. The stolas phone calls were hilarious and could've made a perfect running gag. I really wished this showed stayed episodic and wasn't storydriven
Yeah I kind of wish they end this ship and have them in seperate relationships because I hate how dragged out it is now. Like I thought it was a kind of intresting pair at first but after season 1 it just grinded to a halt this is especially sad seeing how well they paced Fiz and Ozzy's relationship was.
im glad someone is FINALLY talking about this, ive always hated this ship, its incredibly toxic and its very,, uhh. theres way too much casual sexual harrassment and borderline assult? its just so odd its looked over so much and treated as like "theyre just like that!!!!!!" nobody should 'just be like that' its weird asl
Yeah I also hate how they watered down Stolas's character to be uwu soft boy in recent episodes. Dont even get me started on the misogynistic writing surrounding Stellas character.
For real..the misogyny is so bad...
I do not understand this take. Why does an abuser need to have positive qualities depicted and how does that equal misogyny?
@@zoenesin520 because the female villains in helluv boss have had something bad happen to them by the main characters like Verosika and blitz or stolas and Stella and despite stolas and blitz having done bad things to them the writers treat stolas and blitz like they didn’t do anything wrong and that the audience is supposed to hate the victims like verosika and Stella. And the female charcters who ARENT villains rarely get shined upon and even when Millie did get her own episode, it felt overshadowed by Barbie wire and blitz and she was overshadowed by Sallie may in the mini episode. That’s how the misogyny shows
I do like the ship but I can see why people dislike it.
It is really toxic and problematic.
There are a lot of times where I dislike it.
I honestly wouldn't care if they got together, became good friends or just flat out stopped talking to each other.
I think the character's should talk about the power dynamic and if blitzø wants to be with him.
In the show it seems like there is something not mutch but something.
It may work if on the next episode they talked
( the next episode is named full moon so its possible)
It would work then but otherwise shouldn't really be happening.
they be singing 👀 and from the other character/romantic duets that we had in the show I think that they might sing their thoughts out.
I personally never really cared for stolitz I was always more interested in the assassins and business part of the show so it’s just breaks my heart how they’ve taken a new direction that has so many flaws and I agree stolitz has many issues that show wants us to ignore at least of stolas’s side which is frustrating because the show is actively victim blaming blitz and making us feel bad for the worser person in this situation. But if you are into suggestions could you by chance talk about how the writers sorta failed Moxxie he’s one of my favorite characters who the writers like to bring up and down and make him this incompetent baby who can’t do anything without his wife. He actually has skill and brains yet they take that away from him whenever they wanna humiliate him. I just wanna say I enjoyed this video and you respecting while also criticizing something is a breath of fresh air especially in the helluva fandom. All in all great video and I hope to see more commentary videos from you😊.
First of all, thank you very much for the kind comment. :]
Second of all, if I ever make another video about HB, I’d likely talk about the misogyny in the show, and though Moxxie is a male character, a lot of his treatment (i.e. being bullied and put down for being less traditionally masculine in personality and interests) is very misogynistic so I’d likely discuss how the writers treat him. Not sure if and when I’d make that video, but it would be cool to!
@@rottika hey we’ll take your time no pressure and if your really not up for it that’s okay as well. Also for how queer helluva boss is I find it weird when they fall back into toxic stereotypes and things as humor or jokes when they’re not
Personally I lost interest in their relationship after season two started cause of the inconsistencies. Never really shipped them but I thought their dynamic was kinda interesting to watch at first.
Stolas x Blitz reminds me a lot of those anime Yaoi couples like Naruto x Sasuke, Kaneki x Hide from Tokyo Ghoul, Shizou x Izaya from Durarara and Eren x Levi from Attack on Titan. Most of them are bad, barely make any sense and a bit uncomfortable to get into. These shippers tend to make a lot of disturbing and disgusting fanfiction and fanart which leads to the two of them having sex which looks and sounds like rape as Sasuke, Izaya, Hide and Levi tends to be on the top and more dominant. Plus a lot of these shippers tend to hate female characters like Hinata, Touka and Varona for getting in the way of their “precious Yaoi”.
Some Naruto fans accuse Hinata of being a Stalker with an unhealthy obsession with Naruto when both Sakura and Karin are way worse than her seeing how they lust over Sasuke whose a wanted terrorist that started World War 4.
Some Tokyo Ghoul fans tends to think that Touka is abusive towards Kaneki without getting to know her at all. Plus they accused Touka of raping Kaneki in Re: Chapter 125 when Kaneki consented to sex along. Do they not know that other characters like Tsukiyama, Jason, Arima and Mitsuki have done way worse to Kaneki than Touka? I mean when Tsukiyama kidnaps Kimi and breaks Kaneki’s arm, he gets a free pass. But when Touka hits Kaneki for abandoning when she needed him the most, the fans think that she’s worse than Hitler.
Some Durarara Fans think that Varona is mentally 10 years old when really she’s 20. At least Varona and Shizou had a way healthier relationship that his relationship with Izaya, a sociopath who tries to kill him every other time, breaks the law just to piss him off and tried to frame him for murder but letting Shizou kill him during the series finale. At least Varona was mature enough to kill Izaya so she could take the blame for Shizou since he just got out of the slammer for a crime he did not commit.
About Eren x Levi. That’s basically pedophila since Eren was 15 and Levi was 30 during the start of the series.
I’m glad that stolas is giving him the crystal because then the relationship won’t be just transactional like they can develop together without having that kinda of shit in the way.
People who ship Stolitz either want to live vicariously through a messy and heavily fetishised "relationship"...Or they no framework for what a healthy relationship actually is.
I will say this, at least it looks like Stolas is realizing he fucked up and is going to give Blitz the crystal and let him run his business without the arrangement. It proves he does have consent.
Gosh, finally I’ve found my people after years.
I’ve always disliked this ship bc oh how unhealthy it is, it made me extremely uncomfortable, and everytime I said a word abt their toxic relationship, the fans have always send me death threats and called ME toxic.
I really hope that stolitz won’t be canon and suddenly be a super healthy relationship , cause for 2 seasons there’s no so much progress. I very hope that Stolas will move on from Blitzø 💔
I have analysed both Stolas and Blitzø’s character, I understand them cause I can relate to them sometimes (especially Blitzø) , but their relationship is just..damn. They both have lots of problems and I just think that they aren’t meant for each other. 2 Bros need therapy😭
Sincerely thank you SOO MUCH, I was in an abusive relationship with someone like Stolas and seeing not only the fans but the literal SHOW ITSELF frame it as cutesy. AUGHHHH it has no bounds for how much it pisses me off. The fact that Millie even said Stolas is Blitzo's boyfriend too like I've had ppl irl say that about me and the person abused me like shipping us and my reaction was the same as Blitzo's. I empathize with Blitz so much in the episode where they go to Ozzie's. The general feeling of disgust when that coercer tries to make it romantic is actually SHOWN there in him, even if the show makes it out to be just "oh he's shy 😢😢" (which again.. pisses me off because that's what people thought about me and my coercer 😐) Though I used to love the show, the constant babying and "but he... 🥺" behavior and exceptions to Stolas makes me just hate it. Hopefully Hazbin Hotel doesn't do the same thing, I have high hopes for it.
At least Stolas is acknowledging his faults and his going to let Blitz go because he feels ashamed about how he treated him. That’s at least something right?
Lots of good points here! I really liked Stolitz in Season 1, but so far season two has a bit of an ick factor. I think a lot of that does come from the fact that they've taken the teeth out of Stolas, and made Stella...well dumb. Not even in an interesting way just.....bimbofied.
I've heard that when Helluva Boss was initially made, Stolas was supposed to be the antagonist before the Shipping Happened. I'm so curious to know what the script would have looked like for that.
Wow this video is really insightful. Stolas and Blitzo have been my favorite characters from any media for quite some time and Vivienne actually inspired me to be an animator (so much so that I had been considering applying for Spindlehorse.) But I am an enjoyer of content that goes against my personal views or challenges them. And I actually agree with this video. I knew that there was a problematic nature to the Stolitz relationship the whole time but would just forget about the problematic parts whenever I watched the show. Hearing it being talked about in a video made me revisit the problematic nature of their relationship as whenever I questioned why I liked it myself I just pushed it under the rug. As much as I do like Stolas, I think it really puts me in a tough spot when the show is trying to frame it in a way where we are supporting the abuser. The Full Moon is going to come out soon, and I think that will ultimately be Vivienne's last opportunity to clean up some of these problems with the ship.
yeah
The streak of fantastic episodes needs to continue with the full moon, I have faith in season 2 getting on the right track from now on since oops.
Well, first of all, everything you've just said from 0:51 to 1:56 has me respecting you on such a level I don't think many people will get like... damn, you shot down like six different groups of people and said, "Hey, you don't have to watch me talking bad about a show, and I don't mind that, and I don't hate you for wanting to watch people speak well about a show you like. I hope you have a good day."
(Seriously, where the hell has this type of critique and analysing in my life been- BECAUSE I WANT MORE, GOD DAMN IT.)
(I mean it, holy crap, I'm at a loss for words on how much I respect you at this moment.)
Sorry, I just wanted to say that off the bat. Now, with that out of the way, everything you said in this video is such a good critique of the whole ship, a ship I'm kind of on board with (forgive me, I've seen a lot of art of them in white suits at a wedding, can you blame me), you did such a fantastic job of going over every problem with this ship, why they're a problem, why ONE (Sudo-Grappy) aspect is a massive problem and how you could fix it and make it better is so welcoming to see after the same, "This is bad, so it's overall bad" or "Why would anyone like this." Moreover, you being a previous fan of the show helps as well because you (I assumed) loved the show at one point, and therefore, you can see what people liked about it and why people would see it as a good ship helps with your view and why it’s not a good ship, and not come off as, bad faith or hate. I can't write much more because of how happy you've just made me with the whole video (I mean it. I have an ear-to-ear grin writing this.) Keep up the brilliant work, my friend, as a fan of Viv and her shows. I can safely say this is one of, if not the best critiques of a major aspect of Helluva Boss I have and will ever see. Have a good one, bye!
(I'm sorry if this makes no sense I'm just in a good mood. :D )
Hdjsfsjsgsjdvhdvd this is seriously one of the best comments I have ever gotten, thank you so much!! 😭😭😭
I completely agree!
I remember feeling SO bad for Stella,. only to stop liking the show when they butchered her character, really ruined it for me :(
Same, they basically ruined her character to justify Stolas' shitty actions
Yeah, same, I was kinda disappointed about that honestly.
Yeah, they really went, 'eh she's a woman so who cares what she says or wants!'
@@Carol-cr6sw Exactly, i didn't need her to be 100% justified and a good person, but this was too much
@@BlackMoonOwl Fr like Octavia mentions that they didn't completely hate each other before Stolas went for Blitz, but then suddenly??? make her as shitty and hateable as you possibly can???
I can't help but agree a lot in this, and I am willing to open even why: (This next text will go through my own personal experiences, heavily)
I have been before in same kind of situation as Blitzo, it is terrifying and leaving such relationship was the hardest thing for me personally than anything in my life by far. I started to feel bad for my "Stolas" in this case because they wanted more out of our relationship but no matter what - It was never fulfilled. Our relationship was toxic, abusive and I was stuck in it for whole 2-3 years.
When I was in this relationship, I became more colder and less concidering being altogether. I didn't know what true affection in normal platonic relationships was anymore and often my negative feelings regarding on my relationship formed into me either pushing people away or be harsh worded with people... Just like what Blitzo is doing in the show. The whole cause of me getting into that point was the relationship with "Stolas" in my case and I am so angry even nowadays to myself why I didn't leave the relationship sooner - But then I remembered how pressured I felt of even concidering it. I was pleaded and quilt-tripped by "Stolas" to stay with them or else I woule be the "bad guy" for leaving them behind.
I am horrified how much us audience is wanted to sympathize with Stolas, which I always feel super icky about. He is being put in pedestal where we want to feel bad for him for wanting Blitzo even after seeing how badly he has been treating Blitzo all this time.
I don't want Stolitz to become actual couple unless they actually resolve any of the abusive and power dynamic relationship shenanigans.
Thank-you for this,and especially for your first point.
I also strongly agree with your views on how this ship could have been written better. It was like you were in my brain for those.
I like Stolas, but I have despised this ship from the beginning.
The execution of it as a romance we are supposed to be rooting for has never made sense to me.
It has always felt like she THINKS she's writing two broken people who only true issue is miscommunication,but then they will ultimately find romance in each other arms.
When in ACTUALITY she's writing a deconstruction of one.
Stolas:
A Disney prince who has always kinda felt like he's in the wrong show.
Who is also SEVERELY delusional about the KIND of person he's in love with.
And it's a love that came out of nowhere in the episode Ozzie's in the first place.
Blitz:
A toxic, psychopathic,vulgar,highly aggressive,football field worth of red flags,jerk.
Who for the majority of TWO seasons has been written like he strongly dislikes Stolas, and also only barely tolerates him on a good day.
Then she suddenly remembers opps this is supposed to be my main ship so then precedes to write him a blink and miss romantic scene once a season that he forgets for the rest of it.
She thinks she wrote a tsundere , but seems to have forgotten to write an EQUALLY dere part.
Even the most hardcore shippers don't deny this ship is written very one-sided,but we're still supposed to root for them anyway.
These two bring out the worst in each other.They are toxicity personified when they are together.
The Full Moon episode in particular put the final nail in the coffin on why these two should NOT be together not why they should.
What she has ACTUALLY written is two star crossed lovers who's own severe mental health issues, core personality differences, and societal and familial problems mean they DO NOT ultimately end up together.
Also I've always thought that shippers should be wary the creator is very fond of Bojack Horseman.
Because the main character does NOT end up with their love interest.
They acknowledged they were just two lonely broken people who found solace with each other; but ultimately realized they were lying to themselves and are not compatible. So therefore they go there separate ways in the end.
I truly think that's what the creator is going to do with these two.
IF she is indeed writing a Bojack deconstruction that is.
If not,and we are truly suppose to be rooting for these two to be endgame, then this is some of the most egregious romantic writing I've seen in a while.
Theory if deconstruction is the endgame:
She uses these last four episodes to have them talk, apologize, and tentatively see if they can become something romantic.
Four episodes are not enough to get into the meat of these two's trauma,but anyway...
Stolas loses his title,status,home,money and now has to live with his tentative boyfriend Blitz.
Bonus in that he gets to see first hand how the lower class lives.
That sweet,sweet character development.
However the episode 12 storyboard leaks happen showing even more the star crossed nature of their relationship.
Basically they truly can't be together because of what happens in general and by who the final nail comes from.
She can circumset this by keeping them together to trauma bond,but that comes with it's own horrible issues.
However they still realize they shouldn't be together.
They part ways heartbroken but pining and understanding.
Blitz then realizes he has been trying to find his first love Fizz in both his friend and romantic relationships, and they end the series together.
Blitz actually acts like a sympathetic person around Fizz instead of an jerk, they have true history, were real friends, and she has been throwing ship teases even when they were enemies.
As for the Ozzie issue I have my theories on why Fizz was wiping his mouth directly after the Blitz asking to make out scene. It's heartbreaking for Ozzie, but leaves the door open for Blitz.
Stolas ends the series with his real life
prince charming that his romance novels always promised.
If he doesn't turn out to be his brother then this probably will be Vassago.
He is the first person who shows Stolas what a healthy relationship is supposed to look and feel like because Stella and Blitz for sure weren't it.
Stolas can then show up again in the season 4 epilogue in the sloth ring( I like the sky) enjoying a picnic with his husband Vassago,and beloved daughter Via.
Since Stolas has no ties to Blitz anymore he gets written out of the show, but not before they have one final heart to heart.
Stolas tells Blitz he helped him to have the courage to chose his own happiness after a lifetime of his choices being taken from him.
Blitz tells Stolas he broke through the sea of his self hate and showed him that he was worthy of love, and that all royal demons should not be tared with the same brush.
Basically as a deconstruction this ship works, but played straight it's horrendous.
I know shippers are going to bring up the lovey dovey merchandise as proof of their inevitable endgame. All I will say to that is merchandise does not mean canon,and creators are allowed to change their mind if a story beat is not working.
this opinion isn't subjective, its OBJECTIVE change my mind
True and i sincerely agree with you
People at this point only like Stolitz because it’s gay. If this was a straight ship, people would not be liking it as much. Especially if Stolas was the male and Blitzø was a female.
And either way, gay or not, the ship is still poorly written and extremely forced. Also, Stolas pretty much manipulated Blitz into sleeping with him. Stolas kind of forced it, by saying that he won’t let Blitz have the book unless they have sex every month. The ship is also uncomfortable. Every single interaction is always sexual. It’s kinda gross.
I really, really hope this ship doesn’t work out. But it probably will, unfortunately.
Okay, so I find your framing of the Stolitz relationship as abuse quite interesting precisely because it's so obvious that it can practically be considered explicit. I think what this shows is that there is a double standard when it comes to people who take the submissive role in the bedroom (like Stolas does). The relationship dynamic we have with Stolitz is actually not too far off from Fifty Shades of Grey, a narrative which I think most Helluva Boss fans would rightly criticize for romanticizing abuse - but because Stolas takes the submissive role in the bedroom, we cut him a lot more slack than we would a Christian Grey-type sadist. He's also less aware of what he's doing than Grey and doesn't really seem to _get_ that Blitzo isn't as much into it as he is, and thus comes across more innocent, I guess - but I do think him being a sub in the bedroom plays a huge role in their relationship being accepted by the fandom as much as it is. Stolitz being an abusive relationship wasn't really a secret to me, it's kind of plain to see in Season 1 and then gets glossed over in Season 2 without any development to justify it - but for some reason, it's also a relationship that fans (myself included) genuinely want to see develop and get better over time. But maybe that's not a good thing to want, idk. What makes it worse is that I don't think the show is going to address this in a meaningful way, because Viv is actually not that good of a writer.
As much as I hate Stolitz as well, I will say that there was one pretty decent moment of banter between them that I actually liked in the Season 2 Episode "Seeing Stars".
"What, you can't memorize your fuckin spells?"
"Oh, your memory's so great?" (gestures to Moxxie) "What's HIS phone number?"
"Fuck you."
"Eeeexactly!"
First of all, they had a clear opportunity for a sex joke where Stolas could've given a flirtatious response to the words "fuck you", but they just... didn't. He doesn't say "well, if you insist", or "take me out to dinner first", or anything like that whatsoever, we just get him smugly smiling and going "exactly!"
Second of all, it doesn't feel like Stolas is talking down to Blitz at all in this exchange. He doesn't insult Blitz or call imps idiots and/or imply that they have bad memories or anything like his usual behavior, he's just replying to what Blitz implied about him first.
Third of all... it gives married couple energy and I lowkey love it. Blitz giving him a little side eye, Stolas putting his hands on his hips and giving Blitz a little annoyed look over(finally, an emotion besides sexual desire or depressed longing!), Stolas' smug satisfaction over proving his point, it's almost perfect. If they just added a bit more to it, like just a bit more playful energy, and put moments like this in more often... I might still be on board.
Stolas seems to be talking down less to Blitz as episodes go. Maybe he is learning to avoid calling people of lower class and especially Blitz nicknames
Blitz is honestly the worst character I’ve ever seen, they tried to go for a Richie tozer character but it was poorly done, I always find it hard to feel bad for whom even if it’s obvious you should, he’s so creepy, having a fantasized 3-way with his employed friends who are married, being entirely creepy and manipulative towards SEVERAL characters, verosika, stolas, and everyone tbh
Yeah tbh Blitzo feels like a poorly written crass character that was created by a 15 year old edgy teen on the internet thinking that his character would be funny.
@@MysteryMan788 fr
Reminder: THERE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT ON YOUR PARTNER. EVEN IF SAID PARTNER IS HORRIBLE TO YOU THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO GET CLOSURE THAT DOESNT INVOLVE CHEATING!!!
I think the reason so many people dont see any issue is due to the common issue of people seeing men being uncomfortable in a relationship as a haha funny thing and not an actual issue so they dont pick up on the fact that the Blitz is like never happy in this relationship basically. Idk if you end up saying this later in the video but yeah
This video opened my eyes, because... I had never stopped to think about their "relationship" in this way. Like, everything you said is right (in my view at least) and now, I don't think they're a good couple.
I feel the same way about Stolis's love for Blitzo that I felt about Sakura Haruno's love for Sasuke Uchia way back in the day.
"Wait was this meant to be true love this whole time? I thought this was meant to be an arc of self discovery, where the character eventually realizes they've been projecting onto their crush instead of seeing them for who they really are, figure out that their needs won't ever be met by this person, who has always been honest that they've never reciprocated their romantic attraction, accept the truth, break things off, and then finally move on to find a more healthy relationship with someone else. Everything that's happened so far has convinced me that's where this was going. Why is the story telling me now that this love is genuine?"
I really dislike the kid section, it is much more interesting for an ancient demon that makes deals every tuesday to fall in love with an imp and try to understand his feelings and than convince the other side his feelings are real and not a manipulation tactic
PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT
Just so everyone knows, Rottika is done with Helluva Boss. He told me on one of his streams that he doesn’t want to watch this show anymore. He hasn’t even seen the Mammon episode so don’t make any comments asking if he’s seen Full Moon or Apology Tour.
Who's Rottika?
@@kharijordan6426the person who made this video.
What makes this worse is that vivziepop said the pilot isn’t canon anymore…☠️
When you mentioned how it sounds good in premise but had a poor execution, it particularly resonated with me. A lot of the show has really good ideas that they end up butchering in the second season through retconning or various shenanigans in the plot. I've always had a problem with this ship but couldn't find the words to define it except for the fact that the show focuses on it way too much. It makes me laugh how they changed Stella to be evil and abusive when I previously found him interesting because of that moral ambiguity in their dynamic. I think it would've been a more interesting dynamic to show Blitz learning to get out of a toxic dynamic without any of the romantic attraction that the show tries to push him hiding, especially with the more impressionable audience that Helluva Boss naturally attracts due to the overly vulgar nature. It would be a good lesson on how to stand up properly to an abuser, but that's just my take.
As someone who’s followed HB since the pilot and Instagram accounts, the show really suffers from pacing. Viv, Brandon, and Adam don’t allow themselves to take a moment to pause and focus on a specific moment, topic, or theme. They throw things too much at the audience and forget that build up matters in writing. For example, Fizz and Blitzø relationship is resolved in one episode despite years of hostility. But also in the same episode it’s presented as a the fallout of their relationship is a result of misunderstanding and we’re given background as to what the fallout was. These episodes have a lot going on with the two and all also other characters that matter such as Blitzø sister Barbie, Crim, Striker, Asmodeous, and Stolas. They presented several storylines in the episode and don’t give the audience to absorbs what’s happening nor time to flesh out what themes they’re trying to present.
This is the same issue with the Stolas and Stella relationship because it’s clear they tried to portray their relationship as an example of reactionary abuse, but they completely speed run their presentation which lead to misunderstandings of the twos dynamic. Stolas sleeping with Blitzø is supposed to be an example of a victim trying to get back at his abuser. However, Stella isn’t written seriously as an abuser till S2E1, which is bad because they had all the pieces but they choose to focus on something else or cheapen how bad the relationship was for gags which leads to misinterpretation of the relationship between the two. LO also has this issue with Minthe and Hades but for a different reason.
Stolas and Blitzø has all the potential but because the team speeds runs the characters issues with themselves and each other, it doesn’t feel deserved. Nor is executed well because the important moments between the two are so far presented as texts. Like we don’t get Blitzø side of things unless it’s through message or photos, which is not what build attachment main pairing.
Makes me curious of HH, because Huskerdust may be canon in S1 as hinted in trailers and there’s only 8 episodes as stated by Brandon and Adam in a recent interview.
Remarkable I’m still a fan of the show although season two was really rough there for a while (I swear Fizzy is the only thing that saved it for me and he’s not even part of the main cast). Even though I like the show I acknowledge that there’s some serious writing flaws especially when it comes to Stolitz. It’s fairly clear to me at least when I watch the show the writers intended to show exactly what he talked about in the video but more often than not it gets brushed to the size. Ozzie’s was a really important moment in their relationship but it hasn’t been properly acknowledged since then. Just by what we’ve seen about Stolas getting the Amosedian Crystal for Blitz and the title of the next episode I’m guessing it will be talked about then, at least glanced over, but we really shouldn’t have have to wait until the season finale to FINALLY show us the results of the last finale. Like, in Seeing Stars they’re basically just dicking around the whole time and the emotional whiplash is awful. I think your point of Blitz never actually being shown liking Stolas back is further supported by the fact after Blitz and Fizz make up (which happens a bit to quick for my tastes) Blitz asks Fizz to make out like bro. Blitz is repeatedly shown sleeping with and flirting with other characters which by itself isn’t an issue but the show isn’t helping it’s case when Blitz shows more attraction to literally some random guy at a party than Stolas, the character he’s supposed to end up with.
oh shit for the last time fr, lets make Blitzo drunk next to Stolas and see how they interact
lazy enemies to lovers writing has led to way too many ships where the two characters magically harass each other into becoming endgame as if their quirky banter isn't just plain toxic and realistically they'd never work as anything more than friends with benefits. can't have toxic yaoi if it's not written in a way that makes actual sense
Not to mention (iirc) in the first episode Bliztø made the full moon deal with Stolas while the imp was running away/being shot at. Blitzø wasn’t in a position to fully think things through/refuse when he was running/hiding in order to not die. Stolas could probably hear what was happening over the phone/see what was happening with his powers and took advantage of the situation. Otherwise, I’m sure Blitzø would’ve made a different deal (one not involving sex) had he gotten the time to think things through.
I'll never understand why the writers want us to side with Stolas when you clearly see how bad of a person Stolas really is like, i've seen people defending Stolas in way that the only thing i was able to say were "really?", "are you for real?" And "you gotta be joking, right?"
This is terrible writting
Honestly it reminds me of rebornica’s purple/phone, one agressively flirting, or even just sexually harassing someone, and the other being entirely uninteressted and agressively rejecting the other’s advances. Think this might be a trope actually. Potentially with yaoi origins.
I never thought about it but shipping Stolitz is basically shipping Weinstein with the women he harassed
FINALLY BRO SOMEONE FUCKING SAID IT. SOMEONE HAD THE BALLS TO SAY THAT STOLITZ IS ASS....
I’m glad that you brought all of this up about their relationship. I never felt like they were meant for each other or were ever even romantically interested in each other. Every time I saw them shipped, it felt so wrong and I couldn’t put my finger on it and you really made the mark on me why it doesn’t work.
You made a super reasonable and respectful video bringing the light on the other side of the “shipping” discussions. Wonderful video!
I was about to write a whole paragraph on how you are wrong, but after listening, you changed my mind..
Even though I dislike Stolitz like immensely I try to avoid any video on them, whether positive or negative. I just have a hard time listening to people talk about them in general, but your video was really interesting. It was very inline with how I felt about Stolitz but couldn’t verbalize, cus I’m very much media illiterate. From a behind the scenes kind of thing, Stolitz just seems like it’s trapped in writing hell. Like their relationship is very clearly not thought story wise. The coercive part is definitely from the pilot where Stolas was originally intended to be a villain and when they decided to change that they never changed or try to remedy the coercive part of their “relationship”. From what I understand some time during production a staff member headcanon Stolitz as childhood friends and Viv was like “oh yeah, let’s do that.” Stella being abusive feels like it was included to just so Stolas doesn’t look like a bad guy for cheating on Stella. I’ve people post evidence that Stella was always intended to be abusive in a very old post on the Stolas Instagram account but like, most people watching the show probably don’t even know those accounts exist. It would’ve been nice to see that in the show prior to the cheating. There’s one scene where Stella says she’s glad that she can stop trying to sleep with Stolas and that she does all the work in bed, some people say that’s indicative of abuse. I honestly just feel that’s very grey, it’s proof Stolas wasn’t interested in her but it doesn’t scream abuse to me.
Honestly my dislike comes from a very personal place as a queer person who was in an abusive relationship. I never cheated on my abuser, so Stolas cheating on Stella will never sit right with me. It’s just gross seeing so many people go “well Stella’s bad so it’s ok if Stolas cheats cus Stella deserves it.” Even in the show Stolas just doesn’t care about the cheating cus “it was an arranged marriage so it’s ok.” I wouldn’t mind if Blitz’s hang up about Stolas was his willingness to cheat.
I am a huge Huskerdust fan tho, they don’t have the class difference that Stolitz has but it is similar in that it’s two damaged people coming together. It even has that tsundere thing they’re trying to do with Blitz but better. Idk if you plan to talk about Stolitz more but it would be interesting to see a video comparing the two relationships.
I think that in s2e6, the scene where fizzaroli and blitz are talking and blitz says that he believes that stolas doesn't care about him and looks genuinely upset about it (“hey! stolas only cares about having a rugged peasant [that line is p explicit] it’s nothing… you know… sigh it’s nothing else.”)
also, the new music video, asmodius's interaction with stolas in s2e6, ozzies and the text messages shared in s2e4 show that stolas has strong romantic feelings as well as sexual
i agree that the ship has a lot of problems and is written in a very toxic way but i think it's making room to improve, i for one am very excited for the stolitz episode coming up (the full moon)
Agreed! They may have issues now but maybe that's the point! They're beating it down only for the ship to be rising above the ashes after we all think it's over between them. I hope that's the case because I'd love for Stolas and Blitz to work things out
yeah that Blitz's line from s2ep6 always makes me raise an eyebrow because of the way he says it and the context.
Honestly, I have felt the same way sense this show started trying to become more romantic:
Everyone has kept talking about their romance like its this thing that has been around sense the start, but honestly I have never seen that.
I always felt an episode has been missing because all of a sudden, Stolas is madly in love with Blitz and wants him to "look his way". Like there is only one (possible two) moments when Blitz blushes at Stolas. There was no slow burn or outright moment of affection that they BOTH shared and loved, all ive seen is just Stolas being a fanboy over this guy hes fucking. Thats it.
In my opinion, Stolitz Romance suffers from the "fanfiction" syndrome: people who have no idea about relationships (and especially healthy relationships) write about their personal ideal of a relationship.
Result: sex, sex, sex (Blitz and Stolas never had a real everyday life as a couple) and lots of drama (kidnapping, divorce, attempted murder) to illustrate the supposed depth of a relationship, but when you take all that away, there's nothing left of this "ideal relationship".
Vivziepop, as a creator, belongs to that generation of relationship ineptitude, which is why it goes down well with Gen Z people.
People who have had real relationship experiences, on the other hand, won't feel much addressed by the Stolitz romance.
This is a perfect explanation of why this ship is so bad for me. Like, Valentino and Angel Dust have an extremely similar dynamic but in Hazbin it’s actually portrayed as abusive by the show. I have no idea what happened with Helluva Boss to lean into this ship so hard but it’s making the show way less enjoyable because of it.
You can tell Hazbin has a different crew lol. Viv is still involved but it seems her bad ideas are tempered by a professional writing team.
I know they're gonna be endgame, but i think it would be so funny if they brought in a new characters for stolas and blitz to be with 💀
The writing for their relationship just kinda screams Fujoshi 😭 like making stolas' wife a bitch for no reason just so it makes it okay for stolas to cheat on her, you know?? and their whole relationship based on sex alone, idk anyone else see what i see 😅??
How tf is the LITERAL KING OF LUST AND A JESTER have a more wholesome relationship than blitz and stolas
I really wish the show stuck to the original premise of being an episodic dark comedy about a rag-tag team of assassins and Stolas was just the annoying, horny owl guy that Blitz had to put up with. Now, it just turned into a fanfiction of itself which I didn’t even think was possible for a show to do before I started watching Helluva Boss.
I just found an article on how to write a romantic relationship, and one of the things that has stated is that
Sexual
Attraction
Does
Not
Mean
Love.
And by that I mean it doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to write a romantic relationship, it has to be more than that.
As much as I do love this I would have to agree because I feel like most of us the fans go with off of off of like comics or fanfiction that and sometimes it can be hard between what the reality of the show and what the fanfiction actually give
Tbh, I agree. Iirc, I mentioned in the video, I used to be in the fandom and I used to read a lot of comics of the NSFW variety featuring Stolas and Blitz, and they way they’re portrayed in fanon is usually quite nice and often SO much different than in canon material fr.
@@rottika indeed, I read lots of fanfic and I binge rewatched HB to remember the plot to watch the new episodes. I can confirm:
Stolitz in fanon: 🥺❤😍💖✨️
Stolitz in canon: 👿🗑😱☠️ ⛓️
@@aquabluerose7734any recommendations?
I was honestly scared to say that I "disliked Stolitz" because I thought I might get attacked, or something. Glad to hear that somebody's talking about it tbh.😥
The Stolizt ship literally remind me of those m/m fanfics where they’ll make the female love interest into either an idiot, a mega bitch, or sometimes even both. But the different between fanfics and this show is that. Hellva Boss is way more professional than fanfics. Anyone can create a fanfic by using their phone, computer, and etc and MAJORITY of the time they don’t earn any money from it. But with Hellva Boss, not only are they’re getting money for it. But it also have a sister show that is now on Amazon.
Btw I’m not saying fanfics are never good. I’m just saying it’s mostly written by people who never written anything before or are literally children. Again not dissing fan fic.
Not the bitch ex trope 😂
Personally, they COULD work… but they have SERIOUS SHIT to work out.
LIKE… SOME SERIOUS SERIOUS SHIT.