How I Solved Furrion Chill RV Roof A/C Design Failure for Free
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2023
- I am finally finishing this unintentional series on the Furrion Chill RV Roof A/C. Almost exactly one year ago, I replaced a broken Carrier roof A/C with what, I thought at the time, would be a reliable and quiet roof A/C, the Furrion Chill. While the A/C cooling was never the problem, the thermostat control was awful. Furrion installed the temperature sensor inside the air box and no matter how I tried, the A/C would suck in its own cold air and satisfy the temperature setting very quickly. I relocated the sensor outside the box temporarily while I researched the problem and brought everyone along the way. Thanks to many viewers and commenters on the channel, I discovered that Furrion's "upgraded" tstat does not solve the problem either, it only solves the furnace temperature problem. So today I permanently relocate the sensor to the wall by running a new harness and testing the system out. Hopefully this video helps others with the same issue.
Thanks for watching!!
FLIR phone camera: a.co/d/7u3JMrn
Micro Air Easy Touch: www.microair.net/ - Авто та транспорт
This is why I watch this man's videos... Gets his teeth in something and won't let go until it's right. 👍
Lippert is quickly becoming a monopoly in the RV industry. Not only is this bad for economics, anyone who knows anything about RVs can tell you that’s a bad thing for the RV industry.
Bad for goverments too ,eventually
And all the crap they sell now comes from overseas, mostly china. The metals are of very poor quality.
I absolutely would thank you for doing this Furon AC. I installed one in my Food truck and it’s never worked right and now I know the problem. Thanks again for putting out great videos.
James, you went the extra 10 miles, instead of just one extra mile! 🏃♂️ Great job!🏆
I recently picked up a stand-alone Furrion 15K A/C to replace a 12 year old Dometic unit. I reused the Plenum and the relay box. THe Furrion plugged directly into the Dometic relay box and bolted to the plenum without the use of the kit or any modifications. I think the Furrion A/C with Dometic controls is the best way to do it- best of both worlds.
yes that is a great option!
You truly are the epitome of a great Technician. I just wish I was closer to you, as I can not find anyone near me that care a rats butt about getting a job done right. Thank you for your work ethic!
Great follow up video! Surprised that Furrion didn’t use this as an opportunity to do the right thing….
You and me both!
@@AZExpert everyone knows lippert doesn't care. look at all the broken frame videos
What you lost in time and dollars, you made up in Goodwill; James, You the Man, Tech Extraordinaire!
Not only goodwill with his current customer base (pretty sure it wasn't needed with them) but future demand on James which is going to be problematic - there's only one of him.
Thanks very much for taking the time to make these videos. I always learn something new from each of your videos. I know first hand how much time it takes to make one video, I gave up after the first 30 minutes. Trying to do a job, explain what you are doing, moving the camera, editing after the job is complete is massive. I so much appreciate you and your detailed explanations. Thanks for showing us the out takes, and the parts where you don't take life too seriously and make jokes about yourself. Once again, Thank you for the info.
I have been trying to switch from two Dometic 13.5k to (2) Furrion 15.5K, and believe me it has been a nightmare. I am also using the Micro-Air thermostat, but I can't seem to get it to recognize the second zone.
Thank you so much for the kind words and understanding. :)
You are a man of integrity who will redo the work even if it's the manufacture fault. You are a rare man in today's world who still believes the way a real man warranties his work. Thank you so much for what you do and showing us how things should be done. Your truly a rare find in today's world of RVs. You are appreciated. Stay safe and have a great year.
I spent 5 decades in automotive repair. More than once I had engineers and service people at the manufacturer level upset(?) when I used their words and product design to show them where they were functionally Incorrect. They never hung up the phone , but I bet they wanted to. Good video and you kept it cordial . thanks
Thank you for making so many videos to educate us. I always search your videos first when I need to do anything on my RV. What I really appreciate is that you do everything with integrity and explain your thinking process and re-engineering behind your solutions for the manufacturers screw ups.
Kudos to you for being tenacious enough to figure out the appropriate solution instead of doing a half 🍑 job just to get things done. If Furrion were innovative and humble, they would view your video in a perspective of improving their products they offer. Being critiqued is not a bad thing but a journey to improvement. I'd gladly travel the distance from Utah to AZ to have you work on my motor coach to have you inspect it or work on it . I've had the same vehicle mechanic for 27 yrs. The reason is he is just as like minded as you. Safe travels and walk in peace and with God.
I haven't seen a single piece of Furrion equipment that I've been happy or impressed with.
Thank you for calling out Furrion on their poor engineering, service and management.
James, I appreciate your integrity stand behind your work and doing what you can to make things, right
This defines a true technician that stands behind his work. God bless have a good day.
When James is discouraged and broken, you've got a real problem. I would have thought every thermostat measures the air temp. Furrion should have redesigned the whole system. What a mess. Bonus being able to use the MicroAir BT thermostat. Nice work!
I did exactly what you did with my furrion AC unit. put a 10k thermister above the thermostat and solved all the problems with the unit. mercifully grand design had a couple of extra wires in the run to the thermostat.
works great
I love watching you. I will forever pull extra wire or string or something when I pull wires in the future!! 😂😂
I would love to see you install a mini-split AC in an RV. These roof AC units are just terrible. They are located as close to your head as you can get, and they are so loud because they use the entire roof as a speaker cone, shaking it in the middle like that. My Winnebago routes the AC ducting in the roof which is heated by the sun. I couldn't engineer a worse installation than that.
Once you go with the mini split, you won't miss the rooftop. It's so quiet and efficient. I decided to permanently remove my rooftop unit and install a skylight instead.
Well said and by removing the rooftop ones there's less wind resistance, I'm with you
Thank you for the three part series. I have been following since the get go. I appreciate you and your work!
A monopoly is a game being played in the Rv Industry. Have you heard about the Lippert trailer frame problems! One reported thru UA-cam had 17 broken welds... Grand Design. From the hitch support thru thr living space. The floor was caving.
I know that whole process was a pain but the customer I bet is really happy with the setup and glad you went the extra extra mile to make it right. Plus look at all the content it gave you 😂. Good job.
James I found your videos recently and I have to confess that I'm very pleased with your content.. Appreciate for your efforts and somewhat I admire you for your integrity.. Thanks again from Greece
Much appreciated!
Bummer, this install was so much trouble. I have the microair system on my Alfa, really like it and they were very helpful. They make a great baseplate for the thermostat that really finishes the install nicely. Nice work!
Thank you for these videos! I hope you're able to recoup your losses in the future from lessons learned on this repair.
Nice work. Shame on Furrion for not properly engineering their system properly.
Spoke to Furrion last year about the same situation. They told me to leave the fan set to on, year round. They warned me that if I modified anything, it would void the warranty. Running the fan nonstop helps. However, it's gonna wear out soon. Nice work
You need to compliment yourself for sticking with the problem and solving it. Now all you need to do is to get the manufacturer to address the problem and solve it as you did. Diagnosing the problem is most of the battle. Solving it is the smaller part of it. Good Job.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember amateurs built the ark, but professionals built the titanic. "
thanks, did you get your bike? email me if you didn't
@@AZExpert You bet! It's sitting at my parents house waiting on me! Dad got it put together and has been giving it a good test ride until I return from the PNW! Many Thanks to you and Peter with Hovsco !
We bought one of the Atwood AC/Heat Pumps in 2014, before Dometic bought them out and I must say that we also replaced our old Carrier unit which had started falling apart from AZ sun exposure and the Atwood was even better than the Carrier unit. So quiet, so effecient. Low current draw (we could run the enitre 30A Class A unit on a 15A extension cord). In a class C you can simply leave the thermostat on the plenum (where it is default installed on the non ducted units) and the unit will work. Only thing I would do differently is get teh smaller unit as the 13,5 was too big- it cooled the whole rig down in about 15 minutes and tended to not be able to draw enough moisture out down here in FLA where we now are most of the time. For a Class A, the 13,5 would be great IMO. We sold that rig last year and we really miss the Atwood - we simply set the temp and mounted the remote control (not thermostat) on the wall with some velcro. One more thing- you can start the generator with the Atwood unit on and it will wait for the gen output to settle before starting and only draws about 10A max. The Atwood would've worked perfectly here and is an easy non-ducted solution. Only rub: since Dometic bout them, you can no longer get the NON ducted unit from them and must buy the Houghton brand (Atwood was private label- same as the Lippert/Furrion). There is no point getting upset with Lippert- they actually have no engineers- the engineers are in China. Houghton is in Australia (though their equipment is also China sourced). When our new Class A needs units- we'll be going with Houghton 100%. There are no real American makes left (including GE branded units). RIP Carrier.
Yup. Our job it to make it work in Arizona. Commercial HVAC Mechanic. Factory Systems often have to be modified for our unique high ambient environment. Well done.
Great Job, J. We've been having the same issues with these Furion units coming on the brand new units. Very poor engineering for location placement of the thermistor. What is really sad is how little concern LCI has about this poor design and fixing the problem for the customer. This becomes extremely problematic when working on new units still under warranty. Our hands are basically tied. Embarrassing. At least on extended warranty and customer pay we can often do the thermistor extension. Keep up the great Videos 👍🏼
Thank you. I feel dumbfounded by the lack of understanding with the design, and I say that knowing I know very little, LCI did not have any better recommendations for me either other than to blame me and check voltages.
You are amazing, most techs would have given up after the first trip and said its not there problem. Keep it up.
That's commitment and good information for all of us to know. Good job sticking with it!
Aaannnd I for one am very glad you made this video and that I watched this video.
Why ?
Because I am going to be replacing a carrier air v and after watching the first video am giving serious consideration to the furrion AC unit you installed.
Now I feel like I know everything I need to know to get the job done.
Thank you very much for your due diligence !!!
When we bought the $225k 2015 🍋diesel pusher I had to do a ton of research on this RV & RV quality issues in general. I came to the conclusion that back around 2013 Lippert really took over the supply chain market for RV manufacturers, buying up other smaller parts manufacturers, & quality control took a major dump. There are only 2 components to building a quality RV - quality of parts & quality of builders. None of that has happened since 2013, imho & gotten even worse during the last 3 years. I have a 2022 tank now! She's dated & needs a few updates here & there but gets the job done.
Lol your a good man ! Ageeed on mixing components! Even as a havac tech I have to go back and fix things I didn't for see . Sucks!!!!
Well. This was interesting and very informative. And it is clear now why my Furrions and thermostat are so disfunctional. And now I know how to fix it and can safely state that it may be beyond my capacity.
You're a good man James, way to go. Thank you for this follow up video. Happy trails!
We are RV noobs and bought a 2016 29RKP. It has a few issues here and there but it’s videos like this that are helping us make it a G2G camper. Thanks!
I knew you would not let it go! Nice job! Anyone can edit out all the pain and truth but that’s not real life. Real life is new things don’t always work as advertised. Thanks for showing the real world struggles and walking through how to work around them.
Very good!!! This is something I've been trying to fix with a new Daikin 2 Ton Mini-Split Heat Pump installed by a HVAC friend in my 700 sf garage that has 12 foot ceilings. The indoor unit was installed at about 10 feet high, and when it was put in in July, I noticed the cooling mode worked constantly, which really didn't bother me since my PV system was giving me 150% of my usage. But when winter came, I then noticed I couldn't get the heat to get above 71*. It finally dawned on me that it was because the thermistor was located inside the head unit. I tried to get my friend to come up with a solution, but I did find a Cielo Breeze Max thermostat that somewhat corrects the room temp issue, but the interface isn't easy to program or control. Over the last couple of months, I've just resigned myself to turning off the breaker when we leave, because re-programming the Cielo is just a PITA (you have to use the Daikin remote pointing at the Cielo AND the head unit to make any changes, because another thing that pisses me off is that all Mini-Split manufacturers use IR instead of RF in their remotes!!) . For years, my friend nicknamed me "Mr. Gadget" because I LOVE automation- and put in Google Home years ago, but still can't get the Cielo to operate the way I want it to (like a normal programmable t-stat!!!) and its pissing me off. Daikin has a solution for interconnectivity, but their solution costs about $500. But now that I've seen you were successful at extending the thermistor, I will get my HVAC friend to try that!!!
BTW...just about 2 weeks ago I did find Micro-Air and bought one to replace the t-stat in our 2023 GD Reflection 320MKS. LOVE IT, although it's a bit pricey!!!! And it works just like a t-stat should!
Hey AZ. Awesome REMEDY!! Had same experience 3 years ago. Installed additional wire and thermostat for furnace. New furrion unit was way too loud considering price. In my opinion.
Thanks for sharing.
GOD BLESS.
James, really admire your transparency and integrity. FYI... my MicroAir has a temperature offset feature that may have calibrated for the wire resistance differential you theorized.
Great video. I think if I was the smart thermostat maker I would watch this video and upgrade our product really quick. Lippert is becoming a cheaply made company. I've bought 2 different slide toppers from them. One was made great, the second one they changed the arms and they bent just to save a few dollars.
thank you so much for your advice just hooked up my new furrion chill 13.5 and relocated the room temperature sensor working beautiful. thanks to you....😊
James glad you figured it out! Would have drove me crazy. Wondering if I could replace my old thermostats with the newer one like you did , for my old Coach ? Coleman/Mach a/c . As always great video!
Glad to help
Based on comments I've gotten from other owners Furrion has a thermistor relocation kit that provides a new thermistor with 10 ft of wire and a bubble cover. They were provided free under warranty to resolve short cycling.
I installed a Furrion 14.5 kbtu AC last year on my motorhome that we live in FT. To keep it simple and avoid all the problems you had I got the model with the control unit on the AC. If it gets too cold, you just turn the knob warmer. Too hot and turn it cooler. My furnace is on a separate, inexpensive thermostat from Lowes. My initial complaint with the Furrion is that the fan runs all the time, unlike my old Dometic. However, this new Furrion produces so much cooler air than my old 13.5 kbtu Dometic that if it's not very warm outside, like at night, the coils will freeze up if the fan is on low, so I just leave it on high. I really like that it blows air through my AC ducts as well as directly through the vents on the AC unit itself, unlike my old Dometic, for a much faster cool. In fact, this Furrion cools so well that I haven't had to run my rear AC in over a year.
Now you can find some 6 wire conductors and make up some harness to sell or My RV Works will be selling them on his site. 😂😂😂😂😂 good Job James what a learning curve 😊
I’m surprised that the RV air conditioning units aren’t ecobee or nest compatible.
I have 2 carrier units in my RV and used Cielo controllers, but the intent of using them at the time, as I was parked in one spot for an extended period, where I had WiFi.
Good work on coming up with an acceptable solution, based upon the limitations of the Furion equipment!
A great troubleshooting video.......WELL DONE !!!
James your awesome. There is still decent people in this world. And you are definitely one of them. Thank you
Nice follow up! Your a real hero and committed to excellence !!!!!!!!
I run a furrion ac with a dometic 3316230.014 kit. It runs like a champ. 35 systems installed and no call backs
Thank you James for continuing to show this AC issue and I am glad you are able to solve the issue.
Thanks for the update ! Glad you solved the problem. In doing this video series you have helped many people I'm sure !
This video was very informative for me because I am experiencing the short cycling with my furion AC. I talked to Grand Design and they said Furion definately has a desgin problem but Grand Design has a thermistor relocation kit I can install to fix the problem. Now I have to pay someone to do what you did or figure out how to run the wires in the celing myself. Really burns my butt.
Another excellant job,lots of good info. David Russell
Thank you for the follow-up and hopefully for you, final episode!
Great follow-up video.
Great work on this!!
I installed an Ecobee thermostat in my toyhauler for the exact same reason. So happy I watched your videos as I just upgraded my Dometic to a 14.5 Furrion Chill yesterday and as this point haven't swapped them out. Always looking to expand my knowledge, Thanks
Good to know info, thanks for sharing the solution.
Do it right the first time is a phrase i learned a long long time and it saved me a ton of headache
Great job and thanks for the great information!
Thanks, That answers why my AC short cycles and was never able to freeze you out 🥶
Than you James, I have the same furion AC, and the same isue
Glad you got it fixed up :)
Hey James - don’t forget the software update for the Micro Air. It changes the user interface, but really works well.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
great vid and great customer thanks
Good job James, just maybe the the furrion company might pay attention. Sorry about the pay and time. But you did make the rv customer happy. And look at the knowlege you gained. Good job
I'm buying a furrion, I think .. still worth it to me . Good Video !!!
Oh, that AC?! it's been a year already huh! Great fix James!
Another
Super job…boy I wish I lived closer …need advice in nj!!!
Not arguing but every A/C I've looked up has the thermistor in the upper unit where Furrion has theirs. We've installed a Furrion and I thank you for your efforts. I may need to run that thermistor line that you did but in going to school off your efforts I may just 'test' the system before I commit it to the wall. Thank you Sir! Subscribed!
They have a freeze switch but that is different from the temp sensor for the ambient air
@@AZExpert I understand fully, Sir! In our Dometic, we have both the thermistor and the anti-freeze sensor. Freeze sensor is of course on the evap side, and the temp is on the intake side. We're going to test and see but I like your idea of running new sensor wires. We're also upgrading to the Easy Touch as well. Thanks again!
Well done my friend.
Thank you kindly
Nice work James, To bad furion cannot figure it out!.
Another Cool video !!!
Cool video James 😎
Nice job!
As one who works on HVAC systems, you need both temperature probes. The one in the AC unit is to prevent evaporator coil from freezing up. The wall one should also control ac/heat to try and get room temperature correct.
the freeze switch is in the coil above and still there
I added a Furrion Chill He 15K and actually used the Carrier V air box and using the old controls and remote and works excellent.
James, I worked in the truck refrigeration industry for over 30 years. We had thermistors that was 30 to 40 feet away from the thermostat. We always soldered the connections and heat shrink to keep water out of the connection cause water will effect the resistance. You may not be done with this project with the Waco connectors in the wet environment in the AC. Been watching your videos for a long time. Enjoy everyone of them.
I find soldering to make the wiring too rigid and without robust support , the connection tends to break. I suppose I could have added dielectric grease but there are likely a hundred crimped connections in the air box included the plug in connection for the sensor onto the board.
When hauling precious cargo in a refrigerated trailers . Sometimes the load is worth more than $1 million dollars you do everything in your power to make sure it gets there at the right temp. We also used gold plated terminals in some of the plugs to make sure they didn’t corrode.
By the by I replace my carrier a/c with a 15k Brisk air. There are adapter cables so no interior changes are need. I use the carrier remote for heat and cool and the Brisk air works great even in San Antonio 118 degree heat
Sounds great!
Like you said they need to incorporate the thermistor in the thermostat or develop a thermostat that has the temperature sensor built in with a wiring harness/ thermostat wiring. Like you said through years of trial and error no sense to try to reinvent the wheel when it turns smoothly from past failures and corrections.
Lippert, the first word in RV heartaches.
You saved my wallet!!! My 8yr old Coleman Mach 10 just quit over memorial Day. I was looking at Furion today as a replacement. I slammed my wallet shut on Furion. Seems Leopard has a lot of engineering issues lately: lack of QA and QC on their U.S. frames for example.
So what brand did you go with. Only reason I keep looking at Furion is some of the functions it has.
@@stevemacedo771I took the easy way out since it was a plug and play andI installed another Coleman Mach 10 heat pump. I also installed the KoolRV air duct device which routes air directly into my ducts... Dramatically increased air flow throughout the Navion and significantly cut the noise which is a plus. I also have the Coleman soft start. I had the microair soft start on my old AC, but switched since this one is tailored to Coleman and it's significantly less expensive.
love your videos!!
You definitely went extra for the customer. I didn't have options like that at a dealership most of the time, hut if i had a choice i always went with the RVP. I had far less problems with them over the years. When the furrion came out we had nothing but warranty issues with them, and Dometic is a warrenty waiting to happen. I always hated talking to factory reps as they pretty much all were as you said. Since atwood is gone now and the new GE system was just taking off when i retired the only choice is to stay with RVP since you had to run a wire anyway. Btw, i just found your channel and will subscribe to it so i can stay up on the happenings in the RV world.
The dealer told me it is set up this way to circulate the air throughout the rv better, but when running the furnace at night, I have to set the temp to about 50 degrees to have a 68 degree temp inside the rv.
Great Job !!
Hey, I stop using foam and use rockwool insulation it works just as good.
James if/when I purchase an RV, I am coming to AZ to have you repair/solve any issues. TY!!!
I just installed a Houghton, 3 wires to connect; line, neutral and ground. Easy.
Let me guess no more furioun promotions 😂
Nice work, James. I hate problems like that. I know it was driving you crazy.
What you did for the customer was first class!! I am sure they realized that it was a manufacturer issue but you solving the issue for a year in your time shows a lot. As far as Lippert is concerned I have no faith in their products. They are just a company trying to monopolize the rv parts industry!! They also make that slide you had to replace. Their leveling system controller sucks in two years , the screen is fading out. Their Chinese refrigerator also sucks.