As a mechanic in the 1960s I remember a similar problem with all sorts of cars, caused by the fuel tank vent being blocked. The fuel pump would suck fuel out of the tank faster than the air could get in, resulting in a vacuum building up in the tank so the fuel pump would not have enough suck to pull fuel through. After a few minutes with the engine stopped the vacuum would gradually go and the engine would start again, especially if you hand-primed the pump, and would run until it happened again. As a test for this you just try running it with the fuel tank cap off. If that cures it you need to check the tank vent or do what we used to do, drill a small hole in the cap to let the air in.
Hello mate, not sure if this will be of any help but a bad earth conection between the engin and the chassis can cause bad inconsistan running especially as the vehicle gets warm. Try putting a jump lead from the earth side of the battery to the engin block and that will eliminate that possibility. My second thought is Land Rover based and that's stick a disposable fule filter in line before the carb so you can see that fuel is still up to the carb, can help with vapour lock when hot but looks a bit naf! Love old cars but at times they just make you want to scream!!! Good luck.
I was seventeen in 1965 apprentice mechanic first vehicle was 100e occasionally it would only idle with choke out, problem was always blocked jet. While you were showing us inside car you you mentioned one jet being damaged now that might be a clue obviously it’s been taken out multiple times I can’t remember if that is the one that used to effect normal idle speed but you cannot clean it whilst still fitted you have to take it out. You really need compressed air to blast out muck,its easy to damage the jet if you push metallic objects into jet orifice as each jet is of a specific size for different engine loads/speeds. I fixed hundreds of fords for that same problem people during holiday travel sometimes taking fuel tank out because so much dirt inside some even with sugar in the tank or water n leaves. If it won’t run without choke indicates blocked main jet however if you operate the throttle matching engine speed now push choke back in, if engine dies then definitely blocked jet. Probably not possible but if borrowing a good carby you could prove it. I used to fit an inline fuel filter that you visibly see if fuel was clean. I wish I could pop round and help you but as I moved to NZ fifty year ago that’s not possible hey good on ya for persistence don’t give up. Kind regards........Robbo
My very first car was exactly the same model, it cost me £19:10s and I ran it for over thirty thousand miles in eighteen months. I was a theology student at the time and my fellow students were vastly amused by the registration number 6*7BMV which they quickly dubbed the Blessed Motor Vehicle! Most of my mileage was without a starter motor because a garage stripped the ring gear. Never failed to start with the starting handle and half a match! I made the huge mistake, eventually of trading it in for a 1958 Standard super eight, a car that did 30 to the gallon of petrol and fifty to the gallon of oil!! The joys of motoring in the sixties.
The fuel pipe from the car bowl seems to be very close to the engine block itself, I wonder wether it could be fuel evaporation , is there a decent thick insulating washer between the fuel pump and the block ?
For an engine to run, it needs three things: compression, fuel and air in the correct proportions and a healthy spark at the right time. If it has all these it must run. It has compression as it can run so it's deficient in either not getting fuel or not getting a spark (we know the timing must be near enough correct) so the thing to be done, when it stops, is find out which isn't happening. Drop the float chamber to see if there is fuel in it. If not, the problem lies in that area. If it's full, the problem is ignition. Is there 6V to the coil? Is there 6V leaving the coil with the points open? Is the 0V leaving the coil with the points closed? Is there a HT spark from the end of the coil (king) lead when the engine is spun over? Is there a spark from the king lead to the rotor when the engine is spun over (there shouldn't be)? When the engine stops, check to find what isn't happening and fix that. Don't just guess.
Just because you have spark fuel and air doesn't mean it will work,,,,What's wrong with this car is he vacume valve in the tank is blocked,forcing to much fuel and not enough air into the engine,,take the fuel cap off and it will run fine..
@@nightstorm9128 I said a while ago it needs fuel and air in the correct ratio and a healthy spark at the right time - basic stuff - and if it has these it has to run. There is no vacuum valve in the tank. What there is is an air vent through the cap to admit air to replace the fuel displaced by the pump to the carburettor. Without this, there would be a vacuum build up in the tank as the fuel level dropped which the pump could not overcome and fuel delivery would cease; it certainly would not force too much fuel through. When the engine stopped the float chamber was removed. It contained fuel to about the correct level so that eliminated fuel delivery as a potential problem. An air leak through the vacuum wiper system can seriously weaken the mixture but the leak tends to be either there or not: it doesn't come and go as the engine runs.
I do not if you cured the problem but I had problems with Anglia 100e. The problem was the diaphragm in the fuel pump was stretched.. You primed the carb. bowl fuel ran for awhile then it died the pump couldn't keep up. Temporary fix turn diaphragm over and reassemble.
I had a hillman minx that did what your pop is doing. The next owner drained the fuel tank which contained some water, He refilled it and the problem was over. Its worth a try.
Hello Dave. Not restarting with a bit of eezi start spray might indicate that fuel is not the problem. That said, never rule anything out. Is the coil designed to run on 6V without a ballast or should it have a ballast? Is it very hot? It might be worth setting 3 or more condensers up so the connection can be switched from one to another as soon as a problem starts to show. (2 condensers on a switch perhaps? - switch from the driver's seat). I have had problems with bad rotor arms and distributor caps. These problems come on when hot and "cure" when cold. But that is with the V8s. Not sure if 4 cyls have similar problems. The old fuel cap not venting is always worth a quick check, by loosening the cap. Rereading through, the rotor arm problem is worse when driving as the loads are higher on the ht side so the spark looks for an easier path to earth and exposes weak areas in the system. Hope you get to the bottom of it. Mart.
When it cuts out, undo the pipe to the carb, crank the engine and see if fuel is coming out. if not must be fuel related, pump or blockage. hope this helps.
Where is your feed for the coil coming from ? If via the ignition switch- take a feed directly from the battery to eliminate the ign' switch. Make sure the plastic ferrule in the distributor (where the wire connects) isn't cracked- often caused by over-tightening of the cable via the little nut. Run without the dynamo/charging system (dis-connect)- to eliminate a short- obviously don't disconnect the fan belt !! Make sure your engine earths are good- conking after lights are switched on might indicate this... It also sounds a tad advanced... but not a real issue right now ! :) If the fuel feed concerns you- gravity feed the carb from an elevated can... and put an in-line clear filter on your line- so you can monitor the feed... P.S- don't rule out a condenser- I've put three new ones on before I got a good one on a Cortina !!
How old is the fuel? I have a pre war Riley anything over 3 months old no chance! Have you had the petrol pump to bits and checked it is all ethanol friendly, Same with the pipe from the tank, it may be collapsing. Make sure it is not full of junk. Try and fashion a shield to protect the petrol pipe from the exhaust manifold. I have found on the Riley under bonnet temperatures have increased considerably. Take the bowl off the Zenith remove ALL the jets get a pan of water with some wood in the bottom and steam for a couple of hours. There will be a filter on the inlet make sure it is clear. If the tank is full of junk remove it get rid of all the rust and treat it with sealer. Once you have sorted that out and it still misbehaves you can then look at the electrics. Good luck!! Cheers John
Well Dave You tried the condenser swap and that was not the answer ! To eliminate fuel tank problems try rigging up an alternative fuel supply . Gallon petrol can on the floor a " clear" plastic pipe (so you can see any bubbles) to the lift pump , see what happens. It doesn't seem to run for long enough for vaporisation to be the issue , BUT If it's the Same Problem ,( electric pump 12 volt so you need a battery as well) and straight to the carb if that sorts it out then the problem is either vaporization or in the fuel tank .. Good Luck Don't Give up
Hello, Are the plug leads carbon or copper, better to use copper leads. Move the fuel inlet pipe away from the engine, the fuel could be vaporising before it gets to the carburetor, from the hot engine..cheers.
I am not sure if this will help but when I was young my father had a 1958 Anglia, ok a bit more modern than you 'sit up and beg' model, but a lot of the mechanics were the same. We found the back light circuit could link to the ignition through the brake circuit if you had a partially failed stop/tail light bulb. The dual filament had broken and dropped onto the other circuit. You switched off the ignition with lights on and foot brake on and the engine ran until you took your foot of the brake. That is not your problem except you mentioned the lights killed the engine. Do you have a short in a lighting circuit?? that could kill the coil.
Hi Dave, vapouration was a big issue with them old ford sidevalve engines. It is well known that immense heat would build up between the exhaust manifold and the fuel pump, the problem was fixed by putting in a heat-sink between both fuel pump and manifold (an aluminium plate) to absorb the heat away from the the fuel pump. I hope you get sorted out.
If it runs on choke but not when warm it must be a carb issue. What is that metal disc for screwed across the carb mouth, which appears to completely strangle the airflow?
These Fords don't have an airfilter , the disk sits proud of the throttle body, I believe its only purpose is to stop stuff fulling into the carburettor.
@@Daves_classics I just looked in to that which seems a cost saving too far, in post-war England. You said it runs on choke but not off and E10 effectively leans out mixture, further exacerbating any problems. Maybe find the idle mixture screw and wind it out a little? A downdraft single choke Weber could probably fit that manifold, gaining the ability to add an air filter and having plenty of spares available. Then rebuild the Zenith as time and parts allow.
Drain the fuel tank mate,I once had an old car with a dead bumble bee in the tank.When the engine was running it sucked the dead bee up to the tank, when the engine stopped the bee floated down,fuel supply restored.I expect the fuel is old so will need chucking and replacing anyway.
If it runs when it is cold but cuts out when it warms up it might be the coil that is at fault. I'm new to the channel so apologies if you've already tried this.
Happened to me once, it was a small oval stone in the fuel line. Have no idea how it got in there but once pushed out the car never gave another problem.
Your ammeter should return quickly to zero after a start and with that charge current showing. That modern Meter is jumping all over the show and misleading you.
As a mechanic in the 1960s I remember a similar problem with all sorts of cars, caused by the fuel tank vent being blocked. The fuel pump would suck fuel out of the tank faster than the air could get in, resulting in a vacuum building up in the tank so the fuel pump would not have enough suck to pull fuel through. After a few minutes with the engine stopped the vacuum would gradually go and the engine would start again, especially if you hand-primed the pump, and would run until it happened again. As a test for this you just try running it with the fuel tank cap off. If that cures it you need to check the tank vent or do what we used to do, drill a small hole in the cap to let the air in.
I had exactly the same problem with my Mk 1 Ford Fiesta!
Should be able to hear the vacuum release a you unscrew the cap.
Hello mate, not sure if this will be of any help but a bad earth conection between the engin and the chassis can cause bad inconsistan running especially as the vehicle gets warm. Try putting a jump lead from the earth side of the battery to the engin block and that will eliminate that possibility. My second thought is Land Rover based and that's stick a disposable fule filter in line before the carb so you can see that fuel is still up to the carb, can help with vapour lock when hot but looks a bit naf! Love old cars but at times they just make you want to scream!!!
Good luck.
I was seventeen in 1965 apprentice mechanic first vehicle was 100e occasionally it would only idle with choke out, problem was always blocked jet. While you were showing us inside car you you mentioned one jet being damaged now that might be a clue obviously it’s been taken out multiple times I can’t remember if that is the one that used to effect normal idle speed but you cannot clean it whilst still fitted you have to take it out. You really need compressed air to blast out muck,its easy to damage the jet if you push metallic objects into jet orifice as each jet is of a specific size for different engine loads/speeds. I fixed hundreds of fords for that same problem people during holiday travel sometimes taking fuel tank out because so much dirt inside some even with sugar in the tank or water n leaves. If it won’t run without choke indicates blocked main jet however if you operate the throttle matching engine speed now push choke back in, if engine dies then definitely blocked jet.
Probably not possible but if borrowing a good carby you could prove it. I used to fit an inline fuel filter that you visibly see if fuel was clean. I wish I could pop round and help you but as I moved to NZ fifty year ago that’s not possible hey good on ya for persistence don’t give up.
Kind regards........Robbo
Thank you Robo, 😊
My dad had one in the early 60,s, same colour, that used to break down as well 🤣🤣🤣
Lol
My very first car was exactly the same model, it cost me £19:10s and I ran it for over thirty thousand miles in eighteen months. I was a theology student at the time and my fellow students were vastly amused by the registration number 6*7BMV which they quickly dubbed the Blessed Motor Vehicle! Most of my mileage was without a starter motor because a garage stripped the ring gear. Never failed to start with the starting handle and half a match! I made the huge mistake, eventually of trading it in for a 1958 Standard super eight, a car that did 30 to the gallon of petrol and fifty to the gallon of oil!! The joys of motoring in the sixties.
The fuel pipe from the car bowl seems to be very close to the engine block itself, I wonder wether it could be fuel evaporation , is there a decent thick insulating washer between the fuel pump and the block ?
Try running it with the fuel cap removed. If the tank breather is blocked, the fuel system could vacuuming. Had this happen to me many years ago.
For an engine to run, it needs three things: compression, fuel and air in the correct proportions and a healthy spark at the right time. If it has all these it must run. It has compression as it can run so it's deficient in either not getting fuel or not getting a spark (we know the timing must be near enough correct) so the thing to be done, when it stops, is find out which isn't happening. Drop the float chamber to see if there is fuel in it. If not, the problem lies in that area. If it's full, the problem is ignition. Is there 6V to the coil? Is there 6V leaving the coil with the points open? Is the 0V leaving the coil with the points closed? Is there a HT spark from the end of the coil (king) lead when the engine is spun over? Is there a spark from the king lead to the rotor when the engine is spun over (there shouldn't be)? When the engine stops, check to find what isn't happening and fix that. Don't just guess.
Just because you have spark fuel and air doesn't mean it will work,,,,What's wrong with this car is he vacume valve in the tank is blocked,forcing to much fuel and not enough air into the engine,,take the fuel cap off and it will run fine..
@@nightstorm9128 I said a while ago it needs fuel and air in the correct ratio and a healthy spark at the right time - basic stuff - and if it has these it has to run.
There is no vacuum valve in the tank. What there is is an air vent through the cap to admit air to replace the fuel displaced by the pump to the carburettor. Without this, there would be a vacuum build up in the tank as the fuel level dropped which the pump could not overcome and fuel delivery would cease; it certainly would not force too much fuel through. When the engine stopped the float chamber was removed. It contained fuel to about the correct level so that eliminated fuel delivery as a potential problem.
An air leak through the vacuum wiper system can seriously weaken the mixture but the leak tends to be either there or not: it doesn't come and go as the engine runs.
I do not if you cured the problem but I had problems with Anglia 100e. The problem was the diaphragm in the fuel pump was stretched.. You primed the carb. bowl fuel ran for awhile then it died the pump couldn't keep up. Temporary fix turn diaphragm over and reassemble.
I had a hillman minx that did what your pop is doing. The next owner drained the fuel tank which contained some water, He refilled it and the problem was over. Its worth a try.
Hello Dave. Not restarting with a bit of eezi start spray might indicate that fuel is not the problem. That said, never rule anything out. Is the coil designed to run on 6V without a ballast or should it have a ballast? Is it very hot? It might be worth setting 3 or more condensers up so the connection can be switched from one to another as soon as a problem starts to show. (2 condensers on a switch perhaps? - switch from the driver's seat). I have had problems with bad rotor arms and distributor caps. These problems come on when hot and "cure" when cold. But that is with the V8s. Not sure if 4 cyls have similar problems. The old fuel cap not venting is always worth a quick check, by loosening the cap. Rereading through, the rotor arm problem is worse when driving as the loads are higher on the ht side so the spark looks for an easier path to earth and exposes weak areas in the system. Hope you get to the bottom of it. Mart.
Thank you 😊
Is there something occasionally plugging the fuel pick up tube from inside the tank?
Got that t-shirt. Small stones in pipe. (Kids no doubt) Ok till I overtook someone. Took me a year to figure it out.
When it cuts out, undo the pipe to the carb, crank the engine and see if fuel is coming out. if not must be fuel related, pump or blockage. hope this helps.
Where is your feed for the coil coming from ? If via the ignition switch- take a feed directly from the battery to eliminate the ign' switch. Make sure the plastic ferrule in the distributor (where the wire connects) isn't cracked- often caused by over-tightening of the cable via the little nut. Run without the dynamo/charging system (dis-connect)- to eliminate a short- obviously don't disconnect the fan belt !! Make sure your engine earths are good- conking after lights are switched on might indicate this...
It also sounds a tad advanced... but not a real issue right now ! :)
If the fuel feed concerns you- gravity feed the carb from an elevated can... and put an in-line clear filter on your line- so you can monitor the feed...
P.S- don't rule out a condenser- I've put three new ones on before I got a good one on a Cortina !!
How old is the fuel? I have a pre war Riley anything over 3 months old no chance! Have you had the petrol pump to bits and checked it is all ethanol friendly, Same with the pipe from the tank, it may be collapsing. Make sure it is not full of junk. Try and fashion a shield to protect the petrol pipe from the exhaust manifold. I have found on the Riley under bonnet temperatures have increased considerably. Take the bowl off the Zenith remove ALL the jets get a pan of water with some wood in the bottom and steam for a couple of hours. There will be a filter on the inlet make sure it is clear. If the tank is full of junk remove it get rid of all the rust and treat it with sealer. Once you have sorted that out and it still misbehaves you can then look at the electrics. Good luck!! Cheers John
Well Dave You tried the condenser swap and that was not the answer !
To eliminate fuel tank problems try rigging up an alternative fuel supply .
Gallon petrol can on the floor a " clear" plastic pipe (so you can see any bubbles) to the lift pump , see what happens.
It doesn't seem to run for long enough for vaporisation to be the issue , BUT
If it's the Same Problem ,( electric pump 12 volt so you need a battery as well) and straight to the carb if that sorts it out then the problem is either vaporization or in the fuel tank .. Good Luck Don't Give up
Have you done a comparison test?
If we ever get some decent weather, this will be first on my list
is the earth strap bolted onto clean metal and smeared with vaseline ?
Hello, Are the plug leads carbon or copper, better to use copper leads. Move the fuel inlet pipe away from the engine, the fuel could be vaporising before it gets to the carburetor, from the hot engine..cheers.
Could the carburettor be icing up , can the air cleaner take air from the outside of the exhaust manifold ?
I am not sure if this will help but when I was young my father had a 1958 Anglia, ok a bit more modern than you 'sit up and beg' model, but a lot of the mechanics were the same. We found the back light circuit could link to the ignition through the brake circuit if you had a partially failed stop/tail light bulb. The dual filament had broken and dropped onto the other circuit. You switched off the ignition with lights on and foot brake on and the engine ran until you took your foot of the brake. That is not your problem except you mentioned the lights killed the engine. Do you have a short in a lighting circuit?? that could kill the coil.
Hi Dave, vapouration was a big issue with them old ford sidevalve engines. It is well known that immense heat would build up between the exhaust manifold and the fuel pump, the problem was fixed by putting in a heat-sink between both fuel pump and manifold (an aluminium plate) to absorb the heat away from the the fuel pump.
I hope you get sorted out.
Cheers for your reply 👍,
My dads ford pop used to breakdown sometimes on hills and l thik it was fuel evaporation ,he put a metal plate by the manifold all those years ago
If it runs on choke but not when warm it must be a carb issue.
What is that metal disc for screwed across the carb mouth, which appears to completely strangle the airflow?
These Fords don't have an airfilter , the disk sits proud of the throttle body, I believe its only purpose is to stop stuff fulling into the carburettor.
@@Daves_classics I just looked in to that which seems a cost saving too far, in post-war England. You said it runs on choke but not off and E10 effectively leans out mixture, further exacerbating any problems. Maybe find the idle mixture screw and wind it out a little? A downdraft single choke Weber could probably fit that manifold, gaining the ability to add an air filter and having plenty of spares available. Then rebuild the Zenith as time and parts allow.
Drain the fuel tank mate,I once had an old car with a dead bumble bee in the tank.When the engine was running it sucked the dead bee up to the tank,
when the engine stopped the bee floated down,fuel supply restored.I expect the fuel is old so will need chucking and replacing anyway.
Had similar issue. It ended up in being broken hair spring in one of the one way valves in the inlet & outlet of the fuel pump
Thank you 😊
If it runs when it is cold but cuts out when it warms up it might be the coil that is at fault. I'm new to the channel so apologies if you've already tried this.
Thank you for your reply.
Try changing your rotor arm mine had the same problem when it got hot
Happened to me once, it was a small oval stone in the fuel line. Have no idea how it got in there but once pushed out the car never gave another problem.
Don’t see capacitor for points. Test cap to earth on megohn scale. Should be at least 2 meg ohms. I presume it is not electronic ignition
Definitely not electronic ignition.
See if you have crud in the tank. It might be clogging up the fuel line.
I had this issue in the 60s with one of there fords put a new pump on it was ok put a Electric pump see it helps.
Wire the ignition straight to the battery with jumper wires.
Need an analogue meter for dc measurements. I still have my Avo
I still have my old 250v wind up mega with the original leather case.
Your ammeter should return quickly to zero after a start and with that charge current showing. That modern
Meter is jumping all over the show and misleading you.
I had a same kind of problem turned out to be a cracked rotor arm
Thats got to be grubby fuel in that tank for sure .
Had one, air filter left off.
New Carb id say yeah
Replace fuel pump with electric fuel pump..
Improve your video.
I will try my best