They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality
They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality
They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie propagated on purpose by a sick barbarian author who seeks personal and financial gain, can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality. Keep living in your fantasy proof-less world.
But that's from Madeline's book which was released in 2010. I think things are different in the iliad since it's basically the original and it's from where madeline took inspiration
Achilles: *Orders his men to mingle his ashes with Patroclus' in a single urn upon his death so that they can be together for eternity* Historians: "As friends should."
@@HazelCat09 That's right, i asked my teacher about it Here in Greece we study mythology, in middle school and high school they weren't cousins or related at all But it was common for relatives back then to get married with eachother (cousins siblings and so on) indeed as Zeus very well did Patroclus and Achilles were not cousins as many many people say or think and that's how i believed too The mistake was mine, though Thanks so much 😊
THEY WERE GAY. THEY WERE LOVERS. WHY CANT HISTORIANS ACCEPT THAT? “They were close friends, they had an unbreakable bond” NO. THEY WERE GAY, THEY WERE LOVERS!!!
I accept and fully understand that they were lovers, i can't describe a friendship like that also It's not the historians' problem It's the world's, that they don't understand their relationship Actually, Homer was very familiar with the human psychology and in that age historians have found it impossible for him to know so much generally about this He was writing words in greek of course to describe things on some chapters even we couldn't understand My teacher once showed which words he used and we, Greeks, - my class, couldn't understand them or their meaning He was so different from the rest of the epic writers and we could see the difference in the other writers' writing I think he wanted to explain and express their love without letting people focus only on that part in the Iliad so that's why Patroclus is killed and Achilles seeks for revenge and blah blah blah They were lovers, i believe that ...
@@HazelCat09 History can't accept the homosexuality not the love (though in ancient times that wouldn't be a problem, you could love and sleep (with) whoever you liked, back then...there were also so many stories about people that were both males Stories such as Alexander the Great's relationship with a soldier, Apollo's with a mortal (possiblly Icarus and other ones) Zeus' relationshipwith Ganymede, and i think many more !) Here in Greece, for your information, now these kind of things are not fully supported... In our schools Patroclus' and Achilles' relationship would be described as "friends" or "cousins" They weren't related at all and historians as well as teachers (back then and now) try to hide this fact
The ancient sources specifically mention they were straight. Also *they are fictitious characters so they didn’t ever actually exist.* Modern fiction love-story books like the “song of Achilles” present the mythological characters as gay however the book was written by a fiction novelist not a historian.
@@mrxxin Historians were never sure if the characters were fictional... What I want to say is that the war never happened as in The Iliad but people (the characters and many others, Achilles or Hector, even Patroclus) could have inspired Homer, not with the same names but he was well known for his knowledge in psychology so he kind of knew the spirit or the personality of the people around him, and he could have been inspired by some specifically That doesn't mean they existed ! But they were the inspiration for the story (the Iliad) So that means only one thing, but not for sure again... that's also for their relationships with each other (Hector with Andromache, Helen with Paris...and many other couples, including Achilles and Patroclus without knowing for sure if they were together)
I mean during ww2 a dutch homosexual burnt down a large archive office so that n*zi wouldn't be able to identify the jews in the city and was later executed for it. During his death he said that even gays can be brave.
Well, i don't know if we should call them homosexual, because Greeks were really "sexually active"; many historians define them as friends, but they were much more closer. In fact Greeks saw homosexual intercourse for pedagogical purposes. Oh and one other thing- Paris only held the bow, the one that shot the arrow was the god Apollo.
@@chhavisoni7509what facts? You mean the original story, the Iliad, written by Homere that never made any explicit mention of a romantic relation between the two. Because if you knew what a fact is, you would understand that the idea of them being lovers can never be a fact but an interpretation of the story. What y'all fail to realize is that the concepts of gay or straight did not exist in ancient greece (which in itsemf is a very long period but I'll come back to it later). Those notions are modern concepts that you try to apply to a different time period. In most cases of "gay" greeks, you'll find that they were also having heterosexual relations because the barrier between the two was not as distinguished as today. Further, you can't just say that homosexual relations were common in ancient greece so them being close means they're gay. Ancient greece is 1000 years of history. The period for which we have sources mentioning gay relationships is the classical period, which happened centuries after the Iliad that comes from the archaic period, which itself talks about an event that happened 400 years prior in the bronze age. Sure, some authors and thinkers from the classical period argued that achilles and patroclus had a romantic relationship, but that was them transposing their bias onto a much older story. And even then, they never treated their interpretation as facts but as interpretation. So you can keep your "facts" to yourself
"unbreakable platonic bond" bro they were gayer than all the people i know combined even plato says they were in love dont tell me they werent in love just dont
Yea cuz i toooootally have this relationship with my homies. Ya know the bestest of friends who hug and kiss and fuuu… but its totally platonic, its over the covers, theyre wearing socks
@@Euro.Patriot Because Agamemnon insulted his honor when he took Brisias (who was Achilles' spoils of war) and publicly humiliated him. So Achilles refused to fight until Patroculus saw that the war was not progressing and that they were losing, and went out to fight in his place, wearing his armor. When he died, Achilles was enraged, he went and killed Hector, and was killed too
@@Euro.Patriot This is a woman, she was a prisoner of war (Most of my information comes from the book Song Of Achilles) P. S I apologize if my grammar is wrong, English is not my native language and I use Google Translate...)
Yes.....his......friend
Right
His....friend
Just friends 😁
@@ChalkyRP totally dude. Totally
@@ChalkyRPcould not agree more….
@Uncuriousness yeah, nothing else there... just extremely close friends...
@@HazelCat09extremely close friends
Historians will call them anything but lovers 💀
They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality
They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality
They were together since children the same as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion you decadent barbarians. They went thru everything together, they were philophers and real men bound by the institution of friendship which was sacred in Ancient Greece. No disgusting lie propagated on purpose by a sick barbarian author who seeks personal and financial gain, can ruin their image. Keep believing lies so you feel good about your abnormality. Keep living in your fantasy proof-less world.
Fr
Fr i all because of that stupid book
Dont forget the cave scene and the fact Achilles wakes Patroclus up by booping his nose. Bros are being bros.
But that's from Madeline's book which was released in 2010. I think things are different in the iliad since it's basically the original and it's from where madeline took inspiration
Although I believe they were surely more than friends
And they sleep in the same room in the illiad.... Like best buds
@@DaylightPianosame tent, each one with a woman..
@@silvervd5675 we have different translations, mine didn't mention any women but I'll trust that yours did
Achilles: *Orders his men to mingle his ashes with Patroclus' in a single urn upon his death so that they can be together for eternity*
Historians: "As friends should."
@@sariii2541ooh god that makes the book make me wanna puke more then when i hot to THAT scene
@@lavenderblooming976 The song of Achilles you mean ?
@@sariii2541that doesn't mean that they weren't lovers. After all, Zeus married his sister and greek gods had ___ with eachother all the time.
It was common for relatives including siblings to marry
@@HazelCat09 That's right, i asked my teacher about it
Here in Greece we study mythology, in middle school and high school they weren't cousins or related at all
But it was common for relatives back then to get married with eachother (cousins siblings and so on) indeed as Zeus very well did
Patroclus and Achilles were not cousins as many many people say or think and that's how i believed too
The mistake was mine, though
Thanks so much 😊
Yeah…. The “man he loved above all others”… his close friend.
“Friend” wow love your pronunciation of boyfriend
Achilles had a son
@@Jotaro_joestar615but anyways that doesnt mean anything
@@Jotaro_joestar615and?
@@Jotaro_joestar615 Uhhhh you do know that gays too can eject sperm. They CAN get a woman pregnant. 😂😂😂😂
@@Jotaro_joestar615yeah- but you know- Greeks didn't really care about that...
These comments passed the vibe check
Real
Friends, best bros, buddies, homies, bsf- definitely
"Friends" yes I see...🗿
And historians will call them~
close friends,
besties,
roommates,
collegues,
anything but lovers
History hates LOVERS.
SIDEKICKS
FAMILY
GOOD PALS
BUDDIES
ANYTHING BUT LOVERSSS
and the friends keep kissing and sacrifices each others emotion for the sake of other
ahh wish i had that kinda friend
“The death of his friend” Where’s the rest of the word? We know full well that there’s three missing letters 🤨
Wait wait let me guess
B? O? And.... Andddd uhmm Y?
"Closest companion and friend" ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
wow. they were such good friends, what good friends. such close friends. the best of friends.
“Friends” surrrrreeeee
That's friendship yea they're just good friend ig💀👍
The fact that achilles indriectly choose his pride over both of thier lives😢
Bros being bros
THEY WERE GAY.
THEY WERE LOVERS.
WHY CANT HISTORIANS ACCEPT THAT?
“They were close friends, they had an unbreakable bond” NO. THEY WERE GAY, THEY WERE LOVERS!!!
I accept and fully understand that they were lovers, i can't describe a friendship like that also
It's not the historians' problem
It's the world's, that they don't understand their relationship
Actually, Homer was very familiar with the human psychology and in that age historians have found it impossible for him to know so much generally about this
He was writing words in greek of course to describe things on some chapters even we couldn't understand
My teacher once showed which words he used and we, Greeks, - my class, couldn't understand them or their meaning
He was so different from the rest of the epic writers and we could see the difference in the other writers' writing
I think he wanted to explain and express their love without letting people focus only on that part in the Iliad so that's why Patroclus is killed and Achilles seeks for revenge and blah blah blah
They were lovers, i believe that ...
And historians will call then
Close friends
Besties
Roommates
Colleagues
Anything but lovers
History hates lovers
@@HazelCat09 History can't accept the homosexuality not the love (though in ancient times that wouldn't be a problem, you could love and sleep (with) whoever you liked, back then...there were also so many stories about people that were both males
Stories such as Alexander the Great's relationship with a soldier, Apollo's with a mortal (possiblly Icarus and other ones) Zeus' relationshipwith Ganymede, and i think many more !)
Here in Greece, for your information, now these kind of things are not fully supported...
In our schools Patroclus' and Achilles' relationship would be described as "friends" or "cousins"
They weren't related at all and historians as well as teachers (back then and now) try to hide this fact
The ancient sources specifically mention they were straight. Also *they are fictitious characters so they didn’t ever actually exist.*
Modern fiction love-story books like the “song of Achilles” present the mythological characters as gay however the book was written by a fiction novelist not a historian.
@@mrxxin Historians were never sure if the characters were fictional...
What I want to say is that the war never happened as in The Iliad but people (the characters and many others, Achilles or Hector, even Patroclus) could have inspired Homer, not with the same names but he was well known for his knowledge in psychology so he kind of knew the spirit or the personality of the people around him, and he could have been inspired by some specifically
That doesn't mean they existed ! But they were the inspiration for the story (the Iliad)
So that means only one thing, but not for sure again... that's also for their relationships with each other
(Hector with Andromache, Helen with Paris...and many other couples, including Achilles and Patroclus without knowing for sure if they were together)
"Closest companion"
…friiieeeend…😑 sure, he had no other reason to want his ashes mixed with Patroclus so they could spend all eternity together
Achilles had a son
@@Jotaro_joestar615this doesn't really mean anything
@@Jotaro_joestar615 Gays can reproduce
Ahhh yes….friends.
Just shows that gays can still kick some ass.
I mean during ww2 a dutch homosexual burnt down a large archive office so that n*zi wouldn't be able to identify the jews in the city and was later executed for it.
During his death he said that even gays can be brave.
Help-
and they were roommates
Colleagues!
Anything but lovers
Cuz history hates lovers
Not friends definitely not friends
Friend right
The closest friends... yeah... friends...
Ah, yes. Friends. Absolutely nothing else. Nope, nothing else whatsoever! Just straight dudes being bros completely platonically.
Yeah “friend”
Bestie goals 😍✨
oh yes… friend.
Well, i don't know if we should call them homosexual, because Greeks were really "sexually active"; many historians define them as friends, but they were much more closer. In fact Greeks saw homosexual intercourse for pedagogical purposes.
Oh and one other thing- Paris only held the bow, the one that shot the arrow was the god Apollo.
Ah yes... Friend...
*YOU GOT A FRIEND IN ME*
They were lovers!
COMPANION. MHM, COMPANION. NOTHING BUT BEST BROS.
"He WaS a FrIeNd-"
Oh get ur facts together hooman
We literally not just ship them like dat
Accept it they were in love and very hardcore at that
What proof do you have of this?
@@benamend8965 and what proof do YOU have that they were just friends other than ppl claiming just to deny those facts
@@chhavisoni7509 the story?
@@chhavisoni7509what facts? You mean the original story, the Iliad, written by Homere that never made any explicit mention of a romantic relation between the two. Because if you knew what a fact is, you would understand that the idea of them being lovers can never be a fact but an interpretation of the story.
What y'all fail to realize is that the concepts of gay or straight did not exist in ancient greece (which in itsemf is a very long period but I'll come back to it later). Those notions are modern concepts that you try to apply to a different time period. In most cases of "gay" greeks, you'll find that they were also having heterosexual relations because the barrier between the two was not as distinguished as today.
Further, you can't just say that homosexual relations were common in ancient greece so them being close means they're gay. Ancient greece is 1000 years of history. The period for which we have sources mentioning gay relationships is the classical period, which happened centuries after the Iliad that comes from the archaic period, which itself talks about an event that happened 400 years prior in the bronze age. Sure, some authors and thinkers from the classical period argued that achilles and patroclus had a romantic relationship, but that was them transposing their bias onto a much older story. And even then, they never treated their interpretation as facts but as interpretation.
So you can keep your "facts" to yourself
Just homies things
"Friend"...?🤨🤨
Oh my god they were roommates
"unbreakable platonic bond" bro they were gayer than all the people i know combined even plato says they were in love dont tell me they werent in love just dont
And historians will call them ...
"CLOSE FRIENDS "
“BESTIES”
He was his roommate
Yea cuz i toooootally have this relationship with my homies. Ya know the bestest of friends who hug and kiss and fuuu… but its totally platonic, its over the covers, theyre wearing socks
Oh, they were More than just friends my dude
"Friend"
Such close friends they shared a bed!
As someone who read The Song Of Achilles,,, the word "friend" is ..impressive..
That book was written in this century so it's not credible.
They were lovers mahn❤. Accept it🥺
Lol "friends" Yes I too would go into a blind rage over losing a friend..
Friends… yeah…
Friends? Cough. Sir, what?
And they were roommates…
Mhmmmm… friend.. that’s right, nothin more
🎶AND HISTORIANS WILL CALL THEM….. CLOSE FRIENDS💅 BESTIES👯♀️ROOMMATES 🎀COLLEGES 🤝AnYthING bUt LOVERS❤️HISTORY HATES LOVERSSSSS🎶🎶
Didn’t Achilles call him ‘most beloved by far’ in the actual Iliad?
Totally not gay for each other
A Friend... at least you didn't make them cousins in this one
Ah.. True... Friends 😂
.... So close they shared bed... And bodies
1:02
History hates lovers ig
They were lovers
Why did Achilles stop fighting?
@@Euro.Patriot Because Agamemnon insulted his honor when he took Brisias (who was Achilles' spoils of war) and publicly humiliated him. So Achilles refused to fight until Patroculus saw that the war was not progressing and that they were losing, and went out to fight in his place, wearing his armor. When he died, Achilles was enraged, he went and killed Hector, and was killed too
@@user-gm4bh8kb2q He took what? What's a Brisias?
@@Euro.Patriot This is a woman, she was a prisoner of war (Most of my information comes from the book Song Of Achilles)
P. S I apologize if my grammar is wrong, English is not my native language and I use Google Translate...)
@@user-gm4bh8kb2q Song Of Achilles is a fanfiction. Read the Iliad, it's literally the source material.
i think you mispronounced boyfriend..!
Bruh if you think they are gay read the Iliad. Anything else is fanfic
What?
@@berserkerOMipOyautjaAchilles stopped fighting because he lost his SECOND WOMAN.
@@Euro.Patriot i didn't talked about Achilles
@@berserkerOMipOyautja Original comment.
@@Euro.Patriot I'm German what do you mean by that?