I allways thought the best path in terms of making a Dinosaur design would be this: 1: Make the creature *baseline* realistic. By that I mean correct limbs, same basic body shape, same recognisable features, respectable plumage if needed, and no mammalian roars. this will mostly please the nerds. 2: Add unique elements to it. This includes unique feather formations, lack of plumage on certain parts, cool colouration and patterns, messing with osteoderms, fat, and skin ornaments like small crests or spikey dorsal thingies. This will set your design apart from others. 3: Make sure all of these fits into the game's artstyle. No matter how cool you make a Dinosaur if it doesn't fit in with the rest. For a moment I thought the video was about realism servers lol.
4:10 this segment is what i like to Call “the spinosaurus dilemma” people want spinosaurus, but they also want spinosaurus, but this wont please the people who want spinosaurus (if you know you know)
If they want spinosaurus they should play PoT, if they want spinosaurus they should play the isle if, and only if, the isle is the only somewhat playable dinosaur survival game with spinosaurus in it. It’s not that hard of a conundrum tbh. Although now that I think about it, those two games have the opposite spinosaurus that they should have based on what direction their games are intended to go. For example: the isle has the spinosaurus in spite of its “cram every realism mechanic in the game we can (except the ones that would improve the game feel, like feathered dromeosaurs and humans that can actually sprint for a long while.)”, that probably has something to do with whatever possessed the isle devs to implement the hypos and all that other sci-fi crap that nobody who plays the isle gives a shit about. Meanwhile, path of titans has the spinosaurus in it, despite being the most gamified dinosaur survival game ever to the point where it might just go into primal carnage extinction’s territory with its alternate game modes, which might have something to do with whatever possessed the PoT team to put a lot of emphasis on semi aquatics. All of that to say, spinosaurus is a good fit for both of those games because it’s as big of a mess, and breeds controversy as much, as the games it’s in are with the more recent of the two being only somewhat toned down in comparison to it’s predecessor.
Just gonna say that realism servers in dinosaur survival sucks. The rules are never truly realistic, the server mods watch one scene of disney dinosaur and make rules based on those movies from nostalgic dinosaur media, those rules exist more to protect players feelings than anything else.
Like why a tyrannosaurus rex needs to contest for the carcass when its opponents are ominiraptors? Modern predators bully and kill smaller ones from carcasses without warning, just watch male lions doing that with hyenas. Only when the predators are of equal size they give warnings towards one another.
I enjoy playing realism a lot, in fact it’s the only thing I play, but you are correct in that lots of servers seem to ignore actually realistic scenarios for “fairness!!!”. Like, take assriding for example, people throw a fit because their dino died to it, and the mods go “have to make sure it’s fun 🥺🥺🥺” ignoring the fact that A, dying is a part of the game and especially on realism servers where you’re kinda not meant to get too attached, and B, assriding is possibly the most realistic hunting technique I can think of. I have to switch servers all the time for dumb rules that extend way beyond this one too. It’s harder still to find a community that aren’t elitists because *their* server is just soooo much better than everyone else to the point where most of those end up pretty toxic themselves lol (*cough* walking with dinosaurs *cough*)
I think that's more true for semi-realism servers honestly. At least when it comes to Project Genesis, which I play on a lot and I personally think they always put a lot of thought into their profiles.
5:11 I mean, I think The Isle made them pretty good so far, everything with feathers look amazing, and if anything it made them look even more unique. I'm not saying it's because it's "realistic" it just looks cool. Like I'd absolutely hate seeing a featherless Ovi, Hypsi, Beipi, Austro etc, and like I said in my other comment, omni looks so ugly without feathers.
I do find it interesting how even though they went the more creative route with austro, it’s still feathered in a fairly realistic manner for what it is, minus the shoulder feathers (I don’t hate them, but not all that realistic)
I prefer realism in these games but I can see why other people would rather not, I just like trying to replicate loosely how these animals would’ve behaved in real life. Great video
I like what PoT's going for overall actually. they seem to be making the dinosaurs (mostly) visually accurate at the time they were made, which I appreciate. hurray for feathered raptors ! buuut, making the gameplay and abilities 1:1 realistic isn't super the goal, and this is something I also appreciate :) I've always tried to go into it with the understanding that for Good game, realism should not be prioritised over fun, especially when PoT isn't going for a full immersive survival experience and instead trying to be an mmo with survival stuff in it
I think there's an importent balance that needs to be struck between realism and fiction, with the right balance you will get immersion and immersion to me is the most importent aspect of a dino game together with balance. In my opinion the isle Evrima strikes this balance (for now). Counting the new stress test that is.
The only necessary realism is just enough to believe that something is the dinosaur its supposed to be. For example, a Rex should be bulky, tall, and hit hard. It should be, at least at a glance, recognizable as a Rex. Past that, its honestly unnecessary to add any other realistic features. Make them hiss, grumble or roar. Make them super colorful. Make them scaly or feathered. As long as every other dinosaur is treated the same way then anything is believable. If every dinosaur in the game is shrink-wrapped, scaly, and roars like mammals or screeches like demons, then it doesn't matter if its unrealistic, its believable in that game's universe. And of course having fun is the most important thing in any game. In real life a sauropod could go weeks without water, so realism demands that I only need to drink every 2-3 real life weeks in this video game where food and water is a core mechanic.
I’ve said it before but I actually really like a feathered Utahraptor being an addition even with Omni in the picture. For one, there’s still very much a divide with people who like jp raptors vs those who like realistic raptors, so having an option for both groups is nice, and I don’t think austro will fulfill that just for how specific its niche is. It’d also be fun to watch Utah vs Omni pack wars in game lol And two, Utahraptor is so much more than just a scaled up raptor according to current understanding. It’s more robust than a typical raptor and has a huge head. In game it could function as a slower, more tanky raptor. And its pounce could behave something like raptor prey restraint. In the end I think there’s a lot on the table for Utah to be unique
Also someone could take inspiration from reality, and putting it on fictional dinos, and that would not only be fine, but could add immersion more than the model of the dino itself. Ex beipi, cera, and teno
Honestly? I think realism matters when it comes to the design of the creatures themselves than anything. Cause tbh there never really isn’t a point to depict these prehistoric creatures as anything other than how they realistically would’ve looked like! Now it is fine for games to want to take creative liberties and if a hyper realistic Rex doesn’t fit the vibe of the game then that’s fine 🤷♀️ But in games like the isle or path especially the isle! really have no excuse to make a unrealistic looking creature :/ (now I know about hypos and stuff but like come on? Those are mutated Dino’s I expect them to look a little funky it’s the whole point of making something mutated!)
I honestly believe that Ark Primal Survival would have killed PoT and The Isle has Wildcard actually finished it before moving in to the crazy alien plot. They had the best formula for a Dino survival mode already in place but gave up on it.
I'm fine with devs being creative with their design choices as long as it's not changing the original animal so much that it takes away from the original or almost makes it into a completely different thing, like most of The Isle's designs are not really accurate, but they don't turn the animals into weird monsters either, except the ones that are clearly meant to be fictional like strains in the isle and also spino... Man I really dislike monster spino designs... But like, Tenonto is fine, Rex is fine, I even think chunky Acro is cool. Though I'd still prefer realistic Utah over Omni because Omni is just plain ugly in my opinion, I dislike it so much that I spent countless hours in both evrima and legacy just killing armies of em, well in legacy it was mostly because they were stupidly overpowered thanks to dinos not being able to perform basic functions like turning around so I just wanted to get rid of them to spare everyone else from the headache.
Oh I thought at first you were talking about the realism that people love to roleplay, like, playing like a real animal and such xD and not the dinos in the game and how they are. So I agree with you, I do enjoy more fantasy in it. In the end, no one knows how one actually looked, it can only be guessed through finds and studies
I think ppl confuse what they mean by realism. I just want it to feel like I'm actually trying to survive a hostile environment. And it not feel like a team death match. And for me, the isle achieves that.
3:03, I will say this is quite a misconception, Dinosaurs especially tyrannosaurus we’re fully capable of roaring, They had huge resonating chambers to do this they just didn’t do it in the normal conventional way that most creatures do so it may sound slightly deeper or way higher pitched, Adding realism to a game doesn’t break it, It can be realistic but have character, That’s why I don’t like path of titans but like the isle, It has character but a fair bit of realism
Very true. What I was getting at was the more infamous roars and JP type sounds when realistically they would've been more of a deep drone, which in my opinion isn't as exciting, and there's much less room for creativity in that department when differentiating species.
@@goldfishmentality I fully agree, I want to make a dinosaur game that has realistic designs but not reconstructions, Have realism but be creative and have character, I don’t want a simulator from it I want a video game And sound design that isn’t tacky or fully realistic but epic and cool to listen to
I imagine I’m not alone in this where I only play The Isle because there’s no better alternatives (Dont bring up BoB or PoT please it’s all the same). Realism is a factor to me but more so in the natural ‘vibe’ like I can’t stand how all these games are just combatcombatcombat with no time to vibe as a dinosaur. It’ll be impossible to achieve the natural vibes because everyone wants something different from these games (Most people just want to fight). Games like Saurian are all well and good but unfortunately being developed by one person isn’t very conducive to frequent updates
Saurian is just depressing. The most realistic Dino game ever made that will never come out because the people behind it either ran with the money or are just egotistical assholes. I’m pretty half of them blocked me on Twitter years ago after criticising their game so much when I used to be on that awful site.
Great Video! Immersion will vary from person to person. The more the game interacts with the player, the more the game will be potentially immersive for the player. Realism CAN help, but its not a very strong factor. The graphics can look like real life, but it would still only seem like a game. It's the moment the game interacts with the player in meaningfull ways, that the game will be at its highest potential to be immersive.
If it helps to resolve it, i think i can strike a balance? Have a fuzzy variant of each dino with a smattering of quills and feathers on the back, neck and shoulders, while keeping a more shrink-wrapped version available. As for abilities like in path of titans, it just makes sense the things that would debuff your opponent. You see a carch below you raging and snapping and barking and chomping at the bit to pull chunks out of your argentinosaur ankles, you’re gonna be scared and want to leave rather than fight it off, so you do less damage as a sauropod if you hear the scream. Or with rex’s roar, other Rexes fighting with you would be inspired to your call to action and fight harder, but that implies a higher degree of communication that dinosaurs only may have had, but Rex *was* really smart…
This has given me an idea (that I will likely never do anything with, cause 0 game development knowledge): a dinosaur/animal survival game that's just unapologetically unrealistic, preferable with a stylized aesthetic to boot. Ark's amarga can shoot spikes like missiles, Cenozoic Survival's dodo could walk on water last I played (water in general worked weird there), and whatever BoB is doing. But now pull away the "realism" they all seek to attain, and just go nuts with silly abilities.
When I’m writing a dinosaur novel, my animals aren’t meant to be 100% scientifically accurate, but since this is a science fantasy book, I designed these creatures to be more fantasy aesthetic and aligned with nature while blending in with scientific accuracy, like adding feathers, correct wrists, lips and they never roar but they can make ghostly hisses, screeching and bellowing, and all treated like animals. And for the sake of storytelling, themes and character development, I treated herbivores as a bit more aggressive and territorial, including the Ankylosaurus that is the main Dino antagonist, while the carnivores are neutral and patient even when they hunt, and the only benevolent dinosaur is the Tyrannosaurus as I compare this to modern-day orcas that are beneficial to humans and prefer to hunt large bodied prey, because when it comes to dinosaur movies, we’ve seen how carnivores are portrayed as aggressive and bloodthirsty while herbivores are benevolent and gentle, which felt unrealistic compared to real-life herbivores that have killed loads of people and animals than predators, so I decided to play their roles in reverse.
All I want in the Isle is variety, and not “grow for several hours, fight, die one day and start all over again.” Or if you play as small ones, then just die from one hit. People consider the game more like a fight to the death rather than real survival like wild animals do
Like most things in life not all is black not all is white but in the end its grey and in these games the same can apply i think :/ i love dinosaur ever since im a kid , had watched lots of dinos docs , jurassic park made me dream and so on , then years later when i was able to have a laptop and got the isle it was a dream come true just being a dinosaur ! now since evrima camed out i just left the isle behind and went to play path of titans and yeah as a dino passionate i like realism but mostly on a semi level when i play solo i act as how an animal does , if im a predator i pay more close attention to my surroundings for food etc and i love to hunt while being sneaky while when i play herbi im more aware of dangers and i just take it chill by moving around and eat food but all those things i do is for my own likings and im fine with this ! realism servers sure sounds good on paper but the amount of rules are insane and complicated to learn sometimes plus your right since all we know about dinosaurs can change so quick in even like a few years only yeah its becoming outdated aside from rare informations that arent changed or proved worng until it is thats why if i want realism for myself i just do my own lil dino act stuff or go on semi realism server that does have profile behavior for dinos BUT its not obligatory to act like this its only if you want to and thats fine ! and just with basic rule such simply as no Kos (kill on sight) but yeah its not suited for everyone.
Technically, you are right about the difference between immersion and realism. The Isle dinosaur game thinks it's realism, but it's not. However. It is immersive and that is why we play it. But at beast, it's just immersively enjoyable. We know from studying fossils, just the bones, how dinosaurs probably walked. Gone are the victorian days when they thought that the Brontosaurus walked with splayed legs like a croc has. If the Brontosaurus had legs like a croc, then it would have to have walked around with it's chest in a 6 foot furrow. As though it was on tracks. But back in victorian days, that's how the scientists thought it's legs would have been. We know absolutely nothing about how they sounded. How could we? That's purely speculation as all the soft tissue has now gone and probably been gone a few years after the dino succumbed to whatever it succumbed to. The only dino we could possibly think sounded anything like it did 65 million years ago are crocodilians. The Deinosuchus and Sarcosuchus _(OK! We know it's NOT in The Isle!)._ But that's only because Crocs and Gators are still around today. We know the colours of some of the very late _"dinos"_ if you could even call them dinos. I'm talking about the small bird like ones. But there is still no real proof of any skin colours of those that lived 65 million years ago. Though the Chinese believed they had come up with some plan from a fragment of found skin. But when it comes to The Isle. Again, it's all speculation. Science is still divided as to whether the T-Rex did or did not have feathers. Some say it did. Others say it didn't. We can surmise that dinos may have run at XX mph from studying bone structure, where muscles attached to bones, how big those muscles might have been and from studying present day reptiles. But again, it's well thought out speculation as to how they got about from place to place. But how the dino's actually acted and lived like they do in The Isle game? The answer is, we just don't know. That's all 100% speculation. For all we know every predatory dinosaur could have acted alone and were adverse to seeing another of its species unless it was just for breeding. Just look at how some of the larger lizards, monitors for instance, react when spotting another one. They always seem to fight for dominance and the larger ones will chase the smaller ones away. Did they herd together like cows do? Who knows? Did they run in packs like Wolves do? Who knows? Which ones hunted by chasing like Wolves and which one's hunted by ambush like a Tiger might? Who knows? Which one's were purely scavengers as they were to big and bulky to really hunt something unless it was severely injured? Again. Who knows? All the above aside. The Isle is still a good game. It's not a great game _(Yet!)_ and it certainly is not as realistic as Dondi would like us to believe it is and it never will be.
Authenticity is what matters in a game, not realism. The Isle devs should focus on their game feeling authentic, not "as close to realism as possible" for a bunch of reasons.
@@goldfishmentality thank you, i will continue working on it, (will take time tho, i'm only helped by one of my friends and we are still on the writting and scripting, i don't have a pc good enough to properly start) but i'm quite young so i have plenty of time (sorry for my messy english, i speak french)
I agree with the feather comment when talking about games like Path or the Isle. Their attempts at feathers look kinda…shit. They look more like playdoe shaped to look like feathers without having the actual texture of feathers. It’s the same when devs try to do fur in video games so it’s not even a Dino exclusive issue. Ark managed to make them not look like ass though so that’s why I still encourage feathers. Plus they could potentially make some cool mechanics like gliding or wing assisted climbing.
While i do agree with a lot of this, there are issues to be found. I apologize for the incoming college essay 1: it very much feels as though youre attempting to refer to *paleontological accuracy* rather than actual *realism.* These two concepts are different, but still kinda the same. Accuracy is staying true to the real animal, defyimg it would be like making a lion hot pink and giving it a unicorn horn and still calling it Panthera leo. Realism is different, as (i at least) see it as looking at something and going "yeah, that could maybe exist if it didnt get ass fucked by square cube law or smth". You can make animals realistic but not accurate, but you CANNOT make animals accurate but not realisitic. Take The Isle's Carnotaurus, for instance. Carno isnt accurate or realistic, as it is visually not equivalent to the real animal and it would realistically shatter its skull and neck if it tried to slam its head into smth at 55 km/h 2: accuracy ABSOLUTELY matters, ESPECIALLY for figuring out what a game wants to be. Of course, it is as you said, dependent on the material at hand, but it still matters. Issues can arise if this formula isnt followed, such as The Isle's (really, really bad) design philosophy, for instance look at Deinocheirus then look at Tenontosaurus then look st Spinosaurus. They dont even look like theyre from the same game, which is an issue that can be solved if they were all accurate OR if they were all under the same design style. 3: that entire "we'll never find a fully accurate dinosaur so accuracy/realism doesnt matter in dinosaur games" is extremely mute. Borealopelta is quite literally all i have to say. Yes, it is ONE of thousands of taxa, BUT it directly conflicts with your argument of us never being able to know what dinosaurs looked like. A particular Borealopelta specimen is mummified to the COLOR. It has massive rperesentation of flesh, tissues, and skin cells enough for us to know the damn color of the thing (scarlety red on the top and white on the bottom, for anyone wondering). Borealopelta isnt even the only example, with us having mummies of Brachylophosaurus and Edmontosaurus (just part of an arm containing a hoof-like structure tho), alongside of us having well preserved yet not mummified specimens of dinosaurs like Sinosauropteryx and Microraptor, two animals which we also know the color and patterning of. We can also find the behavior of prehistoric animals (particularly feeding, but also reproductive and combative and feeding behaviors). Dents and smashes on ceratopsian skull suggest multiple ways of combat between the species, recovering Edmontosaurus and Triceratops bones imply damage from Tyrannosaurus rex encounters, Deinocheirus had not only stones but fish in its body upon death as well, keying us in on its piscivory. Deinonychus surrounding a Tenontosaurus, a Velociraptor and Protoceratops literally locked in combat (same goes for a juvenile Tyrannosaurus and Triceratops as well), massive sauropod nests full of eggs, hadrosaur parents discovered next to their eggs and young. These are real scientific discoveries that key us in on the lives of these animals. Note: accuracy and realism for designs are NOT equivalent for accuracy and realism in behaviors and gameplay
I agree with you but only when it comes to the role play aspect of things. The game servers shouldn't have rules that enforce role play realism, cause it just limits what the player can do in-game and people just abuse those rules all the time anyway. However... a dinosaur simulator being more realistic will always be a win for me. It's a dinosaur simulator, that's it's job... There were plenty of non-realistic dinosaur games before the isle and those were fun too (I'll just throw fossil fighters out there as an example) That game sets out with a certain task in mind and it succeeds in it. A dinosaur simulator not trying to be as realistic as it can be, is failing to be what it was advertised to be, and what drew people in to begin with. For example I like the Isle better than path of titans. Fundamentally Path of Titans is the more polished game with less bugs, but I still prefer the isle because if you're playing an apex dinosaur you FEEL like one, whereas on Path of Titans a raptor can bite a rex like 20-30 times in the foot and kill it, which just wouldn't happen. Meanwhile you can bite the raptor in the HEAD AS A REX, and it lives. Mind you this is a 10 lb creature surviving 35,000 NEWTONS of crushing bite force from a 20,000 pound creature. Just simply stepping on the raptor with your foot as rex would kill it if we're talking realism, but there's no such mechanic in the game (there's trample but it does not work unless you're sprinting and doesn't one shot the raptor anyway). If you play for a good amount of time you can learn to fight raptors easily enough as Rex on PoT, but the fact that a solo raptor is even a threat for the rex at all... is like suggesting a house cat could run down a rhino and kill it. I can't speak for everyone but even after I got used to fighting off raptors, it sapped all the fun out of playing larger dinosaurs on that game for me. It wasn't giving me that definitive Rex experience. The larger carnivores just feel like a joke. Luckily for me my favorite dinosaurs are actually on the smaller side, so I don't really run into that problem on PoT anyway. I realize not everyone has that preference, but me and many other players would say it DOES matter. For me, getting to live the life (as we understand with current scientific knowledge) of my favorite dinosaurs is the whole point of playing a dinosaur simulation game. We wanna nerd tf out! If you want a game who's goal is (fun over everything else) there's already plenty of dino games that do that already, and you'd just be molding these currently unique dinosaur simulator games into something that already existed many many years prior.
I agree that realism doesn't matter in video games, and especially dinosaur games. Being playable and fun should be the priority. I love scientifically accurate dinosaurs, but unless the game is intended to be educational, I don't care if the dinosaurs aren't accurate. Otherwise, just make it look cool and interesting.
It matters sometimes. If the game's goal is realism and immersion, it matters a lot. Thing is only Saurian is realistic to begin with. The Isle is sci fi, borderline fantasy. Path of Titans is straight up supposed to feel like an MMO. And to be fair PoT knows this, they don't add realism for realism's sake. The Isle seems conflicted in its goals. But frankly if you take creatures from different time periods and locations and stick them all in one spot you basically instantly forfeit a lot of the need for realism. Because the game is inherently unrealistic. And the roster will likely force you to implement unrealistic features just to get them to function properly in the ecosystem you have built. That's why only Saurian can succeed with pure realism. It's working with a real ecosystem, which means the balancing has basically already been done for them. I think every game can benefit from a few realistic features though. Sometimes real life is just more fun, and taking elements from real life can increase immersion even in a fantasy setting. It's about picking the right times to be realistic versus unrealistic.
The way I see it, some people want real dinosaurs (which is probably moreso 'Dinosaurs with a modern artstyle' than actual rigorous accuraccy), some people want a specific outdated depiction of dinosaur (Shoutout to my Carnivores fans for being into Burian et al but lets be real, this is mainly just the Jurassic Park fanboys), and some people want monsters inspired by dinosaurs; again, based on different eras of dinosaur art. The Isles problem here isn't that it's not realistic, it's that it is an incoherent mess, where we have Jurassic Park knockoffs, Modern Dinosaurs and monstrous designs inspired by aspects of both coexisting. All this makes the game lack artistic cohesion. And speaking as a monster design appreciator, their monstrous designs are quite whelming. Actually, let me go through them in the readmore. Hypsi is fine, fills its imeediate goals. It is "accuraccycore" inspired in a way that makes it feel animalistic and reasonable speculativeness-wise; even if for an Ornithopod it really isn't. It fails as a monster, as it is neither scary, nor mysterious, nor awesome, and it just kinda looks like they made a small Paravian but decided it should be something else instead. However, it is meant as a small colorful jungle creature that is good at escaping but easy prey if it doesn't, and well, the design does that quite well. If it was part of a dinosaur game where everything was a tropical bird knockoff, it would fit right in. Magy, Tenonto and Anky have strange armor that deforms their entire appearance. They look clunky and weird, sluggish even next to animals like Deinosuchus and Ceratosaurus; having oddly hefty armor on a comparatively dainty body. It makes them look more fearsome, which fits with "monstercore", but it also makes them stand out like sore thumbs next to sleeker designs like the JP Raptors or the modern Carnotaurus. Minmi and Beipi look like Pokemon. They're babied way up, have exagerrated but dulled features, are shrunk down, and removed so far from the context of the original animal that the names barely match; though unlike the prior chunk at least the changes reached their skeleton. They do both match the "friendly sort-of-animal you can have adventures with" designs these types of monsters go for, so, I guess it kinda sucks that they're stuck in a horror game instead. Whoops. Troodon is a monster design, but a pretty interesting one, in that it is actually within the bounds of a Jurassic Park knockoff, but also clearly designed to be a monster, what with its various features and behaviours and design eccentricities. Similar to the Dino Crisis Therizinosaurus or the Jurassic Park The Game Troodon that gave them the idea, whoops. Well, it fits, and I guess it can be considered an homage, especially since the design is different enough. If it was original, this would be a pretty funky attempt to introduce a proper horror monster into a horror game, but unoriginality aside, "a horror monster who happens to be a (Jurassic Park style compliant) dinosaur" is a pretty serviceable niche, which honestly, more animals should really be filling, but I guess Troodon only got here because they ripped something off that happened to be a good idea, instead of them putting it in because they had a good idea. ...Seriously why do like none of the animals weird ludicrous abilities enable them to be more effective horror antagonists, come on Dondi your roster is dying Dondi Spinosaurus and Acrocanthosaurus are big Theropods, and they got made beefier so the fanboys would cream their pants over them. Pure armor and concentrated muscle, performative masculinity distilled into a saurian shape. These two lift, and they want you to know it. These two are meant to convey power, which just wouldn't be done if they were either the slender JP or modern Spinosaurus, or "Giganotosaurus with a taller back and a bit shorter". These two are here to sell you on the idea of waiting hours for them, and that they will grant you the power to wrestle those around you in the mud in return, kiss their biceps, and pose for the cameras. These are sexy monsters, for sexy guys, to make you feel as sexy playing a dinosaur as you feel either while being in the middle of a workout while being watched by a partner or never ever before in your life ever. While I'm not sure their gameplay will live up, the designs themselves definitely succeed at what they're doing, and I almost want to draw them making out now, but they don't really fit either the Jurassic Park knockoff nor the Accuracycore aesthetics. Though, if everything in the game looked like them, Magy, Teno and Anky would stand out far less, being sorta less well executed takes on vaguely similar ideas. Alright! After that somewhat uncomfortably naked look at psyche:tm:, let us close out with the strains (didn't think I'd forget those, did ya?) The magnas and hypos are more of that last point. Powerful creatures, whatever. The revealed dinosaurs all do this well so far, the weird cannibal thing fails hard, whatever. The tissos and neuros are weirdos, and I don't remember what they were meant to be doing anymore, but they were clearly meant to look alien and not fit the usual artstyle, and well, they do, so, kudos there. No notes. Necro cyborg Quetz can go here, and well, it sure conveys that it is a dead animal that was forced into a robot shell to do something nefarious. Quetzy, get in the robots. No further notes, again, most of the strains benefit from being deliberately strange and artstyle-buckling. The magnas and hypos are massively neutered by there being other randomly beefy armored dinosaurs. Whatever, not sure strains are still happening anyway. Necrorg Quetz is only a design for now, but its an easy concept, so chances are they won't manage to drop the ball on it. Honorary mention to Cerato and Herrera. The dewlap and stout posture make the former work in tandem with the accuraccy-happier style and be reasonable for the JP knockoff one, while the latters features delineate it nicely as a "that other one" type of mid carnivore, which isn't the main mid carnivore, and is thus getting random spikes and frills and strange abilities to set it apart comfortably and allow it to work in specifically with the JP knockoff designs. Cerato is a fun ugly animal that can show up to remind the audience that nature isn't just butterflies and parakeets, and Herrera is a nice fourth carnivore to have alongside the three mandatory JP knockoff carnivores, taking the role Dilophosaurus usually would as the bad boy of the group. Dishonorary mention to Austroraptor, who, I guess is an "accuraccycore" design, as much as I wanted to pick it apart for how atrociously they mangled its wing alone. Also dishonorary mention to Allosaurus because I don't even know anymore what they want that one to look like. Also also dishonorary mention to Suchomimus and Baryonyx for being weirdly ugly but fitting either accuraccycore or JP knockoffism.
That's why paleo accurate in media doesn't exceeds in fame than stylized Dinos in the public because people will always choose the "cooler" choice. Example people would choose Jurassic Park 3 Spino designs than Paleo accurate updated designs because it's "cooler" and can "kill rex". Lol
Is this video about dinosaur designs in videogames? Because when it comes to gameplay there better be at least some realism because if your playing as a trex or giga spent 8-10 hours growing it only to get killed by something half your size because it takes you 6 to 7 bites to kill it (when it should only take 1 or 2 especially as trex) is bs freaking pot it gives the small creatures to many chances to mess up when a single mess up should be punished extremely harshly like i get it trex has had the limelight for over 100 years but just because people want change doesn't mean trexes bite gets weaker
i died to a facetanking deinonychus in pot as an adult pycno once lmao i just stared at the menu for a good 2-3 minutes flabbergasted i would've won but they kept fucking rubberbanding, finally got a few of them and one facetanked me until i died (had a bit under quarter health)
imo ppl that argue realism in a dino games are the same ppl that try scientifically explain why a Pegasus couldn't biologically exist in the real world, no one gives a shit. Ppl mainly care if the damn things are balanced and look cool. Plus until the pelo nerds can give us the true accurate form the the dinos, by the time any "accurate" dino game is finished, those dinos could be out of date. SO until we stop finding new shit, these dinos are gonna keep changing and being outdated.
Tbh i do think we need more accurate dinosaur media (and Jurassic World should improve aswell, since when a dinosaur appears in there, the design becomes the public's idea of the dinosaur, and the original tried to be realistic aswell) but that doesn't mean everything should
it would be real and realism if pachyrhino was added, but what do i know, realism doesnt matter but i think pachyrhino would also not be realism so it should be added yea yea yea
I think realism is good to "an extent" in terms of graphic style but once you breach into things like insane silly rules, then its just dumb and silly. but thats why community servers exist
To be honest, I don't care how realistic dinosaurs looks are. I care about immersion. I wan the game, where I can feel like I'm playing as real dinosaur. And that's where PoT is failing. Insted of focusing on simulator aspects, as The Isle did, they focuset on RPG. And that game is a bad RPG. You don't play there as dinosaur. You play as a collector of flowers and pine cons. And animations fail there too. The Isle is much better, but it's development is too slow
I allways thought the best path in terms of making a Dinosaur design would be this:
1: Make the creature *baseline* realistic. By that I mean correct limbs, same basic body shape, same recognisable features, respectable plumage if needed, and no mammalian roars. this will mostly please the nerds.
2: Add unique elements to it. This includes unique feather formations, lack of plumage on certain parts, cool colouration and patterns, messing with osteoderms, fat, and skin ornaments like small crests or spikey dorsal thingies. This will set your design apart from others.
3: Make sure all of these fits into the game's artstyle. No matter how cool you make a Dinosaur if it doesn't fit in with the rest.
For a moment I thought the video was about realism servers lol.
Yeah I agree. The standard for me is that it's accurate enough to tell at least what family it's in.
4:10 this segment is what i like to Call “the spinosaurus dilemma”
people want spinosaurus, but they also want spinosaurus, but this wont please the people who want spinosaurus (if you know you know)
I agree
If they want spinosaurus they should play PoT, if they want spinosaurus they should play the isle if, and only if, the isle is the only somewhat playable dinosaur survival game with spinosaurus in it.
It’s not that hard of a conundrum tbh. Although now that I think about it, those two games have the opposite spinosaurus that they should have based on what direction their games are intended to go. For example: the isle has the spinosaurus in spite of its “cram every realism mechanic in the game we can (except the ones that would improve the game feel, like feathered dromeosaurs and humans that can actually sprint for a long while.)”, that probably has something to do with whatever possessed the isle devs to implement the hypos and all that other sci-fi crap that nobody who plays the isle gives a shit about. Meanwhile, path of titans has the spinosaurus in it, despite being the most gamified dinosaur survival game ever to the point where it might just go into primal carnage extinction’s territory with its alternate game modes, which might have something to do with whatever possessed the PoT team to put a lot of emphasis on semi aquatics.
All of that to say, spinosaurus is a good fit for both of those games because it’s as big of a mess, and breeds controversy as much, as the games it’s in are with the more recent of the two being only somewhat toned down in comparison to it’s predecessor.
Saurian is such a relaxing casual experience compared to the other dinosaur games, props for mentioning it!
W
Just gonna say that realism servers in dinosaur survival sucks.
The rules are never truly realistic, the server mods watch one scene of disney dinosaur and make rules based on those movies from nostalgic dinosaur media, those rules exist more to protect players feelings than anything else.
Like why a tyrannosaurus rex needs to contest for the carcass when its opponents are ominiraptors? Modern predators bully and kill smaller ones from carcasses without warning, just watch male lions doing that with hyenas. Only when the predators are of equal size they give warnings towards one another.
I enjoy playing realism a lot, in fact it’s the only thing I play, but you are correct in that lots of servers seem to ignore actually realistic scenarios for “fairness!!!”. Like, take assriding for example, people throw a fit because their dino died to it, and the mods go “have to make sure it’s fun 🥺🥺🥺” ignoring the fact that A, dying is a part of the game and especially on realism servers where you’re kinda not meant to get too attached, and B, assriding is possibly the most realistic hunting technique I can think of. I have to switch servers all the time for dumb rules that extend way beyond this one too. It’s harder still to find a community that aren’t elitists because *their* server is just soooo much better than everyone else to the point where most of those end up pretty toxic themselves lol (*cough* walking with dinosaurs *cough*)
I think that's more true for semi-realism servers honestly. At least when it comes to Project Genesis, which I play on a lot and I personally think they always put a lot of thought into their profiles.
jesus
5:11 I mean, I think The Isle made them pretty good so far, everything with feathers look amazing, and if anything it made them look even more unique. I'm not saying it's because it's "realistic" it just looks cool. Like I'd absolutely hate seeing a featherless Ovi, Hypsi, Beipi, Austro etc, and like I said in my other comment, omni looks so ugly without feathers.
Factual. I will say the isle has done a solid job
I do find it interesting how even though they went the more creative route with austro, it’s still feathered in a fairly realistic manner for what it is, minus the shoulder feathers (I don’t hate them, but not all that realistic)
I like omni, its so iconic if you give it feathers it would look very strange
@@NeovenatorGuy Honestly I prefer dromaeosaurs with feathers, I think they look really cool but fair enough.
@@goldfishmentalitywe do not care
I prefer realism in these games but I can see why other people would rather not, I just like trying to replicate loosely how these animals would’ve behaved in real life. Great video
I like what PoT's going for overall actually. they seem to be making the dinosaurs (mostly) visually accurate at the time they were made, which I appreciate.
hurray for feathered raptors !
buuut, making the gameplay and abilities 1:1 realistic isn't super the goal, and this is something I also appreciate :)
I've always tried to go into it with the understanding that for Good game, realism should not be prioritised over fun, especially when PoT isn't going for a full immersive survival experience and instead trying to be an mmo with survival stuff in it
I think there's an importent balance that needs to be struck between realism and fiction, with the right balance you will get immersion and immersion to me is the most importent aspect of a dino game together with balance. In my opinion the isle Evrima strikes this balance (for now). Counting the new stress test that is.
people only want the game to be realistic when that benefits their favorite dinosaur or playstyle
I want it to be realistic so I don’t get slaughtered everyday
The only necessary realism is just enough to believe that something is the dinosaur its supposed to be. For example, a Rex should be bulky, tall, and hit hard. It should be, at least at a glance, recognizable as a Rex. Past that, its honestly unnecessary to add any other realistic features. Make them hiss, grumble or roar. Make them super colorful. Make them scaly or feathered. As long as every other dinosaur is treated the same way then anything is believable. If every dinosaur in the game is shrink-wrapped, scaly, and roars like mammals or screeches like demons, then it doesn't matter if its unrealistic, its believable in that game's universe. And of course having fun is the most important thing in any game. In real life a sauropod could go weeks without water, so realism demands that I only need to drink every 2-3 real life weeks in this video game where food and water is a core mechanic.
Yeah. While real life can sometimes be a valuable inspiration, it doesn’t really work for dino surv games all that well. With this take I agree.
I’ve said it before but I actually really like a feathered Utahraptor being an addition even with Omni in the picture. For one, there’s still very much a divide with people who like jp raptors vs those who like realistic raptors, so having an option for both groups is nice, and I don’t think austro will fulfill that just for how specific its niche is. It’d also be fun to watch Utah vs Omni pack wars in game lol
And two, Utahraptor is so much more than just a scaled up raptor according to current understanding. It’s more robust than a typical raptor and has a huge head. In game it could function as a slower, more tanky raptor. And its pounce could behave something like raptor prey restraint. In the end I think there’s a lot on the table for Utah to be unique
Also someone could take inspiration from reality, and putting it on fictional dinos, and that would not only be fine, but could add immersion more than the model of the dino itself. Ex beipi, cera, and teno
Honestly? I think realism matters when it comes to the design of the creatures themselves than anything. Cause tbh there never really isn’t a point to depict these prehistoric creatures as anything other than how they realistically would’ve looked like! Now it is fine for games to want to take creative liberties and if a hyper realistic Rex doesn’t fit the vibe of the game then that’s fine 🤷♀️ But in games like the isle or path especially the isle! really have no excuse to make a unrealistic looking creature :/ (now I know about hypos and stuff but like come on? Those are mutated Dino’s I expect them to look a little funky it’s the whole point of making something mutated!)
True
Fr
I like the length of this video
I honestly believe that Ark Primal Survival would have killed PoT and The Isle has Wildcard actually finished it before moving in to the crazy alien plot. They had the best formula for a Dino survival mode already in place but gave up on it.
I'm fine with devs being creative with their design choices as long as it's not changing the original animal so much that it takes away from the original or almost makes it into a completely different thing, like most of The Isle's designs are not really accurate, but they don't turn the animals into weird monsters either, except the ones that are clearly meant to be fictional like strains in the isle and also spino... Man I really dislike monster spino designs... But like, Tenonto is fine, Rex is fine, I even think chunky Acro is cool. Though I'd still prefer realistic Utah over Omni because Omni is just plain ugly in my opinion, I dislike it so much that I spent countless hours in both evrima and legacy just killing armies of em, well in legacy it was mostly because they were stupidly overpowered thanks to dinos not being able to perform basic functions like turning around so I just wanted to get rid of them to spare everyone else from the headache.
Oh I thought at first you were talking about the realism that people love to roleplay, like, playing like a real animal and such xD and not the dinos in the game and how they are. So I agree with you, I do enjoy more fantasy in it. In the end, no one knows how one actually looked, it can only be guessed through finds and studies
Utahraptor could could be reworked into basically a mini T rex since it was much larger than omniraptor anyway
I think ppl confuse what they mean by realism. I just want it to feel like I'm actually trying to survive a hostile environment. And it not feel like a team death match. And for me, the isle achieves that.
I agree tho id add on to that by saying balancing needs to be a priority for that kind of style
3:03, I will say this is quite a misconception, Dinosaurs especially tyrannosaurus we’re fully capable of roaring, They had huge resonating chambers to do this they just didn’t do it in the normal conventional way that most creatures do so it may sound slightly deeper or way higher pitched, Adding realism to a game doesn’t break it, It can be realistic but have character, That’s why I don’t like path of titans but like the isle, It has character but a fair bit of realism
Very true. What I was getting at was the more infamous roars and JP type sounds when realistically they would've been more of a deep drone, which in my opinion isn't as exciting, and there's much less room for creativity in that department when differentiating species.
@@goldfishmentality I fully agree, I want to make a dinosaur game that has realistic designs but not reconstructions, Have realism but be creative and have character, I don’t want a simulator from it I want a video game
And sound design that isn’t tacky or fully realistic but epic and cool to listen to
@@GEK0dev couldn't have said it better myself
I still hope saurian Can save itself…
I imagine I’m not alone in this where I only play The Isle because there’s no better alternatives (Dont bring up BoB or PoT please it’s all the same). Realism is a factor to me but more so in the natural ‘vibe’ like I can’t stand how all these games are just combatcombatcombat with no time to vibe as a dinosaur. It’ll be impossible to achieve the natural vibes because everyone wants something different from these games (Most people just want to fight). Games like Saurian are all well and good but unfortunately being developed by one person isn’t very conducive to frequent updates
Saurian is just depressing. The most realistic Dino game ever made that will never come out because the people behind it either ran with the money or are just egotistical assholes. I’m pretty half of them blocked me on Twitter years ago after criticising their game so much when I used to be on that awful site.
Sauriuan: What you say?
Great Video! Immersion will vary from person to person. The more the game interacts with the player, the more the game will be potentially immersive for the player. Realism CAN help, but its not a very strong factor. The graphics can look like real life, but it would still only seem like a game. It's the moment the game interacts with the player in meaningfull ways, that the game will be at its highest potential to be immersive.
me personally, i like more realistic designed dinosaurs but i dont mind Jurassic world/ park style dinosaurs. both are cool in their own ways
I so desperately need saurian to get somewhere so I can taste something different, I’m tired of everything else.
Also I agree
It is quite possible some feathered Dino’s could mimic stuff like the lyre bird
If it helps to resolve it, i think i can strike a balance?
Have a fuzzy variant of each dino with a smattering of quills and feathers on the back, neck and shoulders, while keeping a more shrink-wrapped version available. As for abilities like in path of titans, it just makes sense the things that would debuff your opponent. You see a carch below you raging and snapping and barking and chomping at the bit to pull chunks out of your argentinosaur ankles, you’re gonna be scared and want to leave rather than fight it off, so you do less damage as a sauropod if you hear the scream. Or with rex’s roar, other Rexes fighting with you would be inspired to your call to action and fight harder, but that implies a higher degree of communication that dinosaurs only may have had, but Rex *was* really smart…
This hurts me to my soul but I kinda agree, just have fun in the game
BUT NO FIRE BREATHING GIANT JP RAPTOR WITH A TIGER ROAR
This has given me an idea (that I will likely never do anything with, cause 0 game development knowledge): a dinosaur/animal survival game that's just unapologetically unrealistic, preferable with a stylized aesthetic to boot. Ark's amarga can shoot spikes like missiles, Cenozoic Survival's dodo could walk on water last I played (water in general worked weird there), and whatever BoB is doing. But now pull away the "realism" they all seek to attain, and just go nuts with silly abilities.
When I’m writing a dinosaur novel, my animals aren’t meant to be 100% scientifically accurate, but since this is a science fantasy book, I designed these creatures to be more fantasy aesthetic and aligned with nature while blending in with scientific accuracy, like adding feathers, correct wrists, lips and they never roar but they can make ghostly hisses, screeching and bellowing, and all treated like animals.
And for the sake of storytelling, themes and character development, I treated herbivores as a bit more aggressive and territorial, including the Ankylosaurus that is the main Dino antagonist, while the carnivores are neutral and patient even when they hunt, and the only benevolent dinosaur is the Tyrannosaurus as I compare this to modern-day orcas that are beneficial to humans and prefer to hunt large bodied prey, because when it comes to dinosaur movies, we’ve seen how carnivores are portrayed as aggressive and bloodthirsty while herbivores are benevolent and gentle, which felt unrealistic compared to real-life herbivores that have killed loads of people and animals than predators, so I decided to play their roles in reverse.
Id prefer realism in my dinosaur game. I want them to seem as accurate as possible, because theyre gorgeous.
All I want in the Isle is variety, and not “grow for several hours, fight, die one day and start all over again.” Or if you play as small ones, then just die from one hit. People consider the game more like a fight to the death rather than real survival like wild animals do
just came here to say FEATHER SUPREMACY
Thanks for shutting up all of the isle Stan’s who think a crazy realistic game is a good game
I love rain world
thats what i allways said! Highfleet is an amazing example of realism
Like most things in life not all is black not all is white but in the end its grey and in these games the same can apply i think :/ i love dinosaur ever since im a kid , had watched lots of dinos docs , jurassic park made me dream and so on , then years later when i was able to have a laptop and got the isle it was a dream come true just being a dinosaur ! now since evrima camed out i just left the isle behind and went to play path of titans and yeah as a dino passionate i like realism but mostly on a semi level when i play solo i act as how an animal does , if im a predator i pay more close attention to my surroundings for food etc and i love to hunt while being sneaky while when i play herbi im more aware of dangers and i just take it chill by moving around and eat food but all those things i do is for my own likings and im fine with this ! realism servers sure sounds good on paper but the amount of rules are insane and complicated to learn sometimes plus your right since all we know about dinosaurs can change so quick in even like a few years only yeah its becoming outdated aside from rare informations that arent changed or proved worng until it is thats why if i want realism for myself i just do my own lil dino act stuff or go on semi realism server that does have profile behavior for dinos BUT its not obligatory to act like this its only if you want to and thats fine ! and just with basic rule such simply as no Kos (kill on sight) but yeah its not suited for everyone.
Ah yes “learning and unlearning things about dinosaurs”
Technically, you are right about the difference between immersion and realism.
The Isle dinosaur game thinks it's realism, but it's not. However. It is immersive and that is why we play it. But at beast, it's just immersively enjoyable.
We know from studying fossils, just the bones, how dinosaurs probably walked. Gone are the victorian days when they thought that the Brontosaurus walked with splayed legs like a croc has. If the Brontosaurus had legs like a croc, then it would have to have walked around with it's chest in a 6 foot furrow. As though it was on tracks. But back in victorian days, that's how the scientists thought it's legs would have been.
We know absolutely nothing about how they sounded. How could we? That's purely speculation as all the soft tissue has now gone and probably been gone a few years after the dino succumbed to whatever it succumbed to.
The only dino we could possibly think sounded anything like it did 65 million years ago are crocodilians. The Deinosuchus and Sarcosuchus _(OK! We know it's NOT in The Isle!)._ But that's only because Crocs and Gators are still around today.
We know the colours of some of the very late _"dinos"_ if you could even call them dinos. I'm talking about the small bird like ones. But there is still no real proof of any skin colours of those that lived 65 million years ago. Though the Chinese believed they had come up with some plan from a fragment of found skin. But when it comes to The Isle. Again, it's all speculation. Science is still divided as to whether the T-Rex did or did not have feathers. Some say it did. Others say it didn't.
We can surmise that dinos may have run at XX mph from studying bone structure, where muscles attached to bones, how big those muscles might have been and from studying present day reptiles. But again, it's well thought out speculation as to how they got about from place to place.
But how the dino's actually acted and lived like they do in The Isle game? The answer is, we just don't know. That's all 100% speculation.
For all we know every predatory dinosaur could have acted alone and were adverse to seeing another of its species unless it was just for breeding. Just look at how some of the larger lizards, monitors for instance, react when spotting another one. They always seem to fight for dominance and the larger ones will chase the smaller ones away.
Did they herd together like cows do? Who knows?
Did they run in packs like Wolves do? Who knows?
Which ones hunted by chasing like Wolves and which one's hunted by ambush like a Tiger might? Who knows?
Which one's were purely scavengers as they were to big and bulky to really hunt something unless it was severely injured? Again. Who knows?
All the above aside.
The Isle is still a good game. It's not a great game _(Yet!)_ and it certainly is not as realistic as Dondi would like us to believe it is and it never will be.
Authenticity is what matters in a game, not realism. The Isle devs should focus on their game feeling authentic, not "as close to realism as possible" for a bunch of reasons.
First video i ever watched from you and i loved it :D
Thank you :)
so does that mean that my future semi realism mesozoic survival game, will never work?
It could absolutely work! As long as the semi-realism is rather timeless and allows for fun gameplay it's perfect
@@goldfishmentality thank you, i will continue working on it, (will take time tho, i'm only helped by one of my friends and we are still on the writting and scripting, i don't have a pc good enough to properly start) but i'm quite young so i have plenty of time (sorry for my messy english, i speak french)
I mean venom, mimicry and communicative vocalizations are all real things...
There is no hard proof for them but they are totally possible.
yaaaaaaaaay new vid im da biggest fan
Realism or belivability?
I agree with the feather comment when talking about games like Path or the Isle. Their attempts at feathers look kinda…shit. They look more like playdoe shaped to look like feathers without having the actual texture of feathers. It’s the same when devs try to do fur in video games so it’s not even a Dino exclusive issue. Ark managed to make them not look like ass though so that’s why I still encourage feathers. Plus they could potentially make some cool mechanics like gliding or wing assisted climbing.
Oh my god… I’m the thousandth subscriber!
While i do agree with a lot of this, there are issues to be found. I apologize for the incoming college essay
1: it very much feels as though youre attempting to refer to *paleontological accuracy* rather than actual *realism.* These two concepts are different, but still kinda the same. Accuracy is staying true to the real animal, defyimg it would be like making a lion hot pink and giving it a unicorn horn and still calling it Panthera leo. Realism is different, as (i at least) see it as looking at something and going "yeah, that could maybe exist if it didnt get ass fucked by square cube law or smth". You can make animals realistic but not accurate, but you CANNOT make animals accurate but not realisitic. Take The Isle's Carnotaurus, for instance. Carno isnt accurate or realistic, as it is visually not equivalent to the real animal and it would realistically shatter its skull and neck if it tried to slam its head into smth at 55 km/h
2: accuracy ABSOLUTELY matters, ESPECIALLY for figuring out what a game wants to be. Of course, it is as you said, dependent on the material at hand, but it still matters. Issues can arise if this formula isnt followed, such as The Isle's (really, really bad) design philosophy, for instance look at Deinocheirus then look at Tenontosaurus then look st Spinosaurus. They dont even look like theyre from the same game, which is an issue that can be solved if they were all accurate OR if they were all under the same design style.
3: that entire "we'll never find a fully accurate dinosaur so accuracy/realism doesnt matter in dinosaur games" is extremely mute. Borealopelta is quite literally all i have to say. Yes, it is ONE of thousands of taxa, BUT it directly conflicts with your argument of us never being able to know what dinosaurs looked like. A particular Borealopelta specimen is mummified to the COLOR. It has massive rperesentation of flesh, tissues, and skin cells enough for us to know the damn color of the thing (scarlety red on the top and white on the bottom, for anyone wondering). Borealopelta isnt even the only example, with us having mummies of Brachylophosaurus and Edmontosaurus (just part of an arm containing a hoof-like structure tho), alongside of us having well preserved yet not mummified specimens of dinosaurs like Sinosauropteryx and Microraptor, two animals which we also know the color and patterning of. We can also find the behavior of prehistoric animals (particularly feeding, but also reproductive and combative and feeding behaviors). Dents and smashes on ceratopsian skull suggest multiple ways of combat between the species, recovering Edmontosaurus and Triceratops bones imply damage from Tyrannosaurus rex encounters, Deinocheirus had not only stones but fish in its body upon death as well, keying us in on its piscivory. Deinonychus surrounding a Tenontosaurus, a Velociraptor and Protoceratops literally locked in combat (same goes for a juvenile Tyrannosaurus and Triceratops as well), massive sauropod nests full of eggs, hadrosaur parents discovered next to their eggs and young. These are real scientific discoveries that key us in on the lives of these animals.
Note: accuracy and realism for designs are NOT equivalent for accuracy and realism in behaviors and gameplay
Another great video!
I agree with you but only when it comes to the role play aspect of things. The game servers shouldn't have rules that enforce role play realism, cause it just limits what the player can do in-game and people just abuse those rules all the time anyway. However... a dinosaur simulator being more realistic will always be a win for me. It's a dinosaur simulator, that's it's job... There were plenty of non-realistic dinosaur games before the isle and those were fun too (I'll just throw fossil fighters out there as an example) That game sets out with a certain task in mind and it succeeds in it. A dinosaur simulator not trying to be as realistic as it can be, is failing to be what it was advertised to be, and what drew people in to begin with.
For example I like the Isle better than path of titans. Fundamentally Path of Titans is the more polished game with less bugs, but I still prefer the isle because if you're playing an apex dinosaur you FEEL like one, whereas on Path of Titans a raptor can bite a rex like 20-30 times in the foot and kill it, which just wouldn't happen. Meanwhile you can bite the raptor in the HEAD AS A REX, and it lives. Mind you this is a 10 lb creature surviving 35,000 NEWTONS of crushing bite force from a 20,000 pound creature. Just simply stepping on the raptor with your foot as rex would kill it if we're talking realism, but there's no such mechanic in the game (there's trample but it does not work unless you're sprinting and doesn't one shot the raptor anyway). If you play for a good amount of time you can learn to fight raptors easily enough as Rex on PoT, but the fact that a solo raptor is even a threat for the rex at all... is like suggesting a house cat could run down a rhino and kill it. I can't speak for everyone but even after I got used to fighting off raptors, it sapped all the fun out of playing larger dinosaurs on that game for me. It wasn't giving me that definitive Rex experience. The larger carnivores just feel like a joke. Luckily for me my favorite dinosaurs are actually on the smaller side, so I don't really run into that problem on PoT anyway.
I realize not everyone has that preference, but me and many other players would say it DOES matter. For me, getting to live the life (as we understand with current scientific knowledge) of my favorite dinosaurs is the whole point of playing a dinosaur simulation game. We wanna nerd tf out! If you want a game who's goal is (fun over everything else) there's already plenty of dino games that do that already, and you'd just be molding these currently unique dinosaur simulator games into something that already existed many many years prior.
I agree that realism doesn't matter in video games, and especially dinosaur games. Being playable and fun should be the priority. I love scientifically accurate dinosaurs, but unless the game is intended to be educational, I don't care if the dinosaurs aren't accurate. Otherwise, just make it look cool and interesting.
It matters sometimes. If the game's goal is realism and immersion, it matters a lot. Thing is only Saurian is realistic to begin with. The Isle is sci fi, borderline fantasy. Path of Titans is straight up supposed to feel like an MMO. And to be fair PoT knows this, they don't add realism for realism's sake. The Isle seems conflicted in its goals. But frankly if you take creatures from different time periods and locations and stick them all in one spot you basically instantly forfeit a lot of the need for realism. Because the game is inherently unrealistic. And the roster will likely force you to implement unrealistic features just to get them to function properly in the ecosystem you have built. That's why only Saurian can succeed with pure realism. It's working with a real ecosystem, which means the balancing has basically already been done for them.
I think every game can benefit from a few realistic features though. Sometimes real life is just more fun, and taking elements from real life can increase immersion even in a fantasy setting. It's about picking the right times to be realistic versus unrealistic.
Not every dinosaur is feathered so it’s not that big of a problem for the majority
The way I see it, some people want real dinosaurs (which is probably moreso 'Dinosaurs with a modern artstyle' than actual rigorous accuraccy), some people want a specific outdated depiction of dinosaur (Shoutout to my Carnivores fans for being into Burian et al but lets be real, this is mainly just the Jurassic Park fanboys), and some people want monsters inspired by dinosaurs; again, based on different eras of dinosaur art.
The Isles problem here isn't that it's not realistic, it's that it is an incoherent mess, where we have Jurassic Park knockoffs, Modern Dinosaurs and monstrous designs inspired by aspects of both coexisting. All this makes the game lack artistic cohesion. And speaking as a monster design appreciator, their monstrous designs are quite whelming. Actually, let me go through them in the readmore.
Hypsi is fine, fills its imeediate goals. It is "accuraccycore" inspired in a way that makes it feel animalistic and reasonable speculativeness-wise; even if for an Ornithopod it really isn't. It fails as a monster, as it is neither scary, nor mysterious, nor awesome, and it just kinda looks like they made a small Paravian but decided it should be something else instead. However, it is meant as a small colorful jungle creature that is good at escaping but easy prey if it doesn't, and well, the design does that quite well. If it was part of a dinosaur game where everything was a tropical bird knockoff, it would fit right in.
Magy, Tenonto and Anky have strange armor that deforms their entire appearance. They look clunky and weird, sluggish even next to animals like Deinosuchus and Ceratosaurus; having oddly hefty armor on a comparatively dainty body. It makes them look more fearsome, which fits with "monstercore", but it also makes them stand out like sore thumbs next to sleeker designs like the JP Raptors or the modern Carnotaurus.
Minmi and Beipi look like Pokemon. They're babied way up, have exagerrated but dulled features, are shrunk down, and removed so far from the context of the original animal that the names barely match; though unlike the prior chunk at least the changes reached their skeleton. They do both match the "friendly sort-of-animal you can have adventures with" designs these types of monsters go for, so, I guess it kinda sucks that they're stuck in a horror game instead. Whoops.
Troodon is a monster design, but a pretty interesting one, in that it is actually within the bounds of a Jurassic Park knockoff, but also clearly designed to be a monster, what with its various features and behaviours and design eccentricities. Similar to the Dino Crisis Therizinosaurus or the Jurassic Park The Game Troodon that gave them the idea, whoops. Well, it fits, and I guess it can be considered an homage, especially since the design is different enough. If it was original, this would be a pretty funky attempt to introduce a proper horror monster into a horror game, but unoriginality aside, "a horror monster who happens to be a (Jurassic Park style compliant) dinosaur" is a pretty serviceable niche, which honestly, more animals should really be filling, but I guess Troodon only got here because they ripped something off that happened to be a good idea, instead of them putting it in because they had a good idea.
...Seriously why do like none of the animals weird ludicrous abilities enable them to be more effective horror antagonists, come on Dondi your roster is dying Dondi
Spinosaurus and Acrocanthosaurus are big Theropods, and they got made beefier so the fanboys would cream their pants over them. Pure armor and concentrated muscle, performative masculinity distilled into a saurian shape. These two lift, and they want you to know it. These two are meant to convey power, which just wouldn't be done if they were either the slender JP or modern Spinosaurus, or "Giganotosaurus with a taller back and a bit shorter".
These two are here to sell you on the idea of waiting hours for them, and that they will grant you the power to wrestle those around you in the mud in return, kiss their biceps, and pose for the cameras. These are sexy monsters, for sexy guys, to make you feel as sexy playing a dinosaur as you feel either while being in the middle of a workout while being watched by a partner or never ever before in your life ever.
While I'm not sure their gameplay will live up, the designs themselves definitely succeed at what they're doing, and I almost want to draw them making out now, but they don't really fit either the Jurassic Park knockoff nor the Accuracycore aesthetics.
Though, if everything in the game looked like them, Magy, Teno and Anky would stand out far less, being sorta less well executed takes on vaguely similar ideas.
Alright! After that somewhat uncomfortably naked look at psyche:tm:, let us close out with the strains (didn't think I'd forget those, did ya?)
The magnas and hypos are more of that last point. Powerful creatures, whatever. The revealed dinosaurs all do this well so far, the weird cannibal thing fails hard, whatever. The tissos and neuros are weirdos, and I don't remember what they were meant to be doing anymore, but they were clearly meant to look alien and not fit the usual artstyle, and well, they do, so, kudos there. No notes. Necro cyborg Quetz can go here, and well, it sure conveys that it is a dead animal that was forced into a robot shell to do something nefarious. Quetzy, get in the robots. No further notes, again, most of the strains benefit from being deliberately strange and artstyle-buckling. The magnas and hypos are massively neutered by there being other randomly beefy armored dinosaurs. Whatever, not sure strains are still happening anyway. Necrorg Quetz is only a design for now, but its an easy concept, so chances are they won't manage to drop the ball on it.
Honorary mention to Cerato and Herrera. The dewlap and stout posture make the former work in tandem with the accuraccy-happier style and be reasonable for the JP knockoff one, while the latters features delineate it nicely as a "that other one" type of mid carnivore, which isn't the main mid carnivore, and is thus getting random spikes and frills and strange abilities to set it apart comfortably and allow it to work in specifically with the JP knockoff designs. Cerato is a fun ugly animal that can show up to remind the audience that nature isn't just butterflies and parakeets, and Herrera is a nice fourth carnivore to have alongside the three mandatory JP knockoff carnivores, taking the role Dilophosaurus usually would as the bad boy of the group.
Dishonorary mention to Austroraptor, who, I guess is an "accuraccycore" design, as much as I wanted to pick it apart for how atrociously they mangled its wing alone.
Also dishonorary mention to Allosaurus because I don't even know anymore what they want that one to look like.
Also also dishonorary mention to Suchomimus and Baryonyx for being weirdly ugly but fitting either accuraccycore or JP knockoffism.
1000th subscriber! For some reason yt had decided to unsubscirbe
I remember a video of yours where you were saying that we need a better dinosaur game.
What about 2nd part?
That's why paleo accurate in media doesn't exceeds in fame than stylized Dinos in the public because people will always choose the "cooler" choice. Example people would choose Jurassic Park 3 Spino designs than Paleo accurate updated designs because it's "cooler" and can "kill rex". Lol
W video!?
I partially disagree. Regular T. rex already looked so cool it would easily fit in with a sci fi GMO world hahaha
Is this video about dinosaur designs in videogames? Because when it comes to gameplay there better be at least some realism because if your playing as a trex or giga spent 8-10 hours growing it only to get killed by something half your size because it takes you 6 to 7 bites to kill it (when it should only take 1 or 2 especially as trex) is bs freaking pot it gives the small creatures to many chances to mess up when a single mess up should be punished extremely harshly like i get it trex has had the limelight for over 100 years but just because people want change doesn't mean trexes bite gets weaker
Yes common sense should still apply. Pot is kind of goofy
@@goldfishmentality thank you
i died to a facetanking deinonychus in pot as an adult pycno once lmao
i just stared at the menu for a good 2-3 minutes flabbergasted
i would've won but they kept fucking rubberbanding, finally got a few of them and one facetanked me until i died (had a bit under quarter health)
why dont we give a burrow ability to a rex? bc its unrealistic and makes no sense so i think realism does count
Believability and realism are different. If you can make somethign seem real then it doesn't matter if it is or not
imo ppl that argue realism in a dino games are the same ppl that try scientifically explain why a Pegasus couldn't biologically exist in the real world, no one gives a shit. Ppl mainly care if the damn things are balanced and look cool. Plus until the pelo nerds can give us the true accurate form the the dinos, by the time any "accurate" dino game is finished, those dinos could be out of date. SO until we stop finding new shit, these dinos are gonna keep changing and being outdated.
Tbh i do think we need more accurate dinosaur media (and Jurassic World should improve aswell, since when a dinosaur appears in there, the design becomes the public's idea of the dinosaur, and the original tried to be realistic aswell) but that doesn't mean everything should
Prehistoric planet and life on our planet have been fantastic for that
@@goldfishmentality and if i'm honest, i think grunting dinosaurs are scarier than ones who roar all the fricking time
it would be real and realism if pachyrhino was added, but what do i know, realism doesnt matter but i think pachyrhino would also not be realism so it should be added yea yea yea
Ah yes. The pachyrino comment saga continues. I'm right here with ya man xD
all i wish for the isle is the omniraptor getting feathers. im sorry but it looks ugly af rn
Realism is completely useless in game design. Make it fun.
I think realism is good to "an extent" in terms of graphic style but once you breach into things like insane silly rules, then its just dumb and silly. but thats why community servers exist
As a highly knowledgeable paleonerd, I literally don't care I just want to be a dinosaur
I think you have some very good points but I find the conclusions you draw just slightly too radical and somewhat oversimplified.
Blub
To be honest, I don't care how realistic dinosaurs looks are. I care about immersion. I wan the game, where I can feel like I'm playing as real dinosaur. And that's where PoT is failing. Insted of focusing on simulator aspects, as The Isle did, they focuset on RPG. And that game is a bad RPG. You don't play there as dinosaur. You play as a collector of flowers and pine cons. And animations fail there too. The Isle is much better, but it's development is too slow