Porsche 997 Battery Cable, AOS, Starter, Alternator Replacement
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 сер 2018
- The Porsche 996 and 997 have an issue with resistance building in the battery cable that connects to the alternator and starter, when the engine is warm the starting begins to weaken to a point where you have to wait a few seconds-minutes between starts. This video covers the replacement of the battery cable with a new OEM unit. This video also covers the removal of the alternator, starter, and air oil separator (AOS) since you are in there already. This is a costly job if you take it to your mechanic, with some patience, you can save some $$$. While the alternator is out, you can take it in to get tested.
- Авто та транспорт
Porsche dealer told me this needed replacement which I never heard of so thank you for this video.Great hearing a professional explanation of how to do this.
Fantastic, hope the video will save you some $$ and it's good summer/winter fun.
Thanks for demystifying this project - I'll give it a go in the next weeks
Thanks Chris, hope it will help:)
great video, thx! This looks massively complex with so many parts to pull off to get to the starter.
If you are just changing just the starter, it's not as bad, but it's more convenient if many of the surrounding parts are removed first. Porsche essentially buries the starter because it doesn't need service that often and I designed the video to change "most" of the stuff on top of the engine so you won't have to revisit for a while. Please take your time and take pictures along the way so you can install the new parts in the right order. Save $$, good luck.
Hello Dan, I wanted to thank you for the video, I saved a lot of money and learned a lot doing this job. I replaced the cable and starter on my 03 996. Mostly the same layout as your video. She fired right up zing zing zing! The key to finishing was the plenum install trick, I had to come back and rewatch that part cause I was not doing it right. Anyway, thank you for helping the porsche community.
Josh, I'm glad this worked out for you and happy that you were able to save on labor costs (which can be quite high with these cars.)
Hey, Dan. Just did the AOS this weekend. This was invaluable. Thank you very much! This made it easier, although I had to look into some other DIY articles to help dealing with the damned rear A/C bolt. But other than that, thanks.
Yes, agree, that's probably the most challenging part aside from making sure the bellows for the intake are properly seated before clamping them down. Thanks for pointing that out, it will help others to focus on that bolt when removing and installing.
Thanks for a excellent video!
Great video! I love your instructional commentary throughout. Thank you, I'm subscribed.
Thanks for the kind words Tom. I have sold the 997 and now have a 981 Cayman, a lot of the same procedures occur there, just from a different angle. I also now have a camera that doesn't make focusing noises ;) I don't monetize my videos, just make them when the vehicle requires maintenance.
Thanks a lot man! Your tutorial was a great help form me during the last two days when I replaced the starter and the battery cable.
Glad it helped, hope your starting issue improved...
@@SirFixAlotAutos It did, thanks man!
Thanks for the video. I completed this procedure this weekend and everything was just as you said. I always thought the slow start was normal. Now with the new battery cable and new starter the car starts as quickly as it should. I took a picture of the old battery cable and the rubber boot that covers the terminal was actually melted. That's how hot that voltage drop was getting. I'd post the picture here but don't see a way to do that. Thanks again for the great video!
John, thanks for the note, The battery cable that I removed didn't look that bad but I did have some metal creep as well. This wasn't so much of a problem on my air-cooled 911s, but when the 996 came along they designed in a much larger high amperage battery (like 928-sized.) My car had ~120k miles on it, but I think one should change it more often if there's a lot of ignition starts going on.
Subscribed. Great DIY Video.
Thanks Dan! Great video. And perfect timing, my new cable arrived a couple days ago.
Thanks Rich, hope the procedure goes well. The main thing is to pull back the AC Compressor (for line of site reasons) it's a little tricky in getting to one of the mounting bolts so know that going in. Everything will become clearer as you to that. Take pictures of how the current cable routes near the alternator area and you should be good.
You are a legend!
Thanks, not legend, just want to provide how to videos so other enthusiasts can enjoy their Porsches and save a few bucks.
excellent video thank you
Perfect ! Text book, i have done exactly the same operation, i was also able to "fish" the wiring harness, but WITHOUT removing the servo-reservoir and the ac-pump
Phew, great job, that save a lot of time.
You make it look easy! Recently my mechanic (dealership) replaced my alternator cable. I went in two days later to replace the serpentine belt and the three belt rollers. Removing the upper left one (which is bolted to the alternator mount) I discovered that the alternator bolt tab was fractured. The mechanic said he didn’t see anything wrong with it but it was clearly broken off. Fortunately, when reasonable torque is applied to the torx bolt that secured the upper belt wheel, it holds everything together, but it’s not right. I suspect the dealership broke the alternator mount tab on the 1 o’clock position, but didn’t want to say anything. I don’t understand the use of a mallet to push the mount towards the front of the car. That threaded part is clearly an insert to the alternator mount/alternator. If frozen, and no lube was applied first to help break that part free, could using the mallet in your manner break that tab? TIA.
Thanks, just trying to encourage enthusiasts to do this on their own to save some money. I think you are talking about the locating sleeve? Using a mallet to move it shouldn't break that sleeve. You need to move it towards the front of the car in order to more easily remove the alternator from the bracket. If the dealer took out the bolt and then didn't thread it back in it could have been cocked and fractured it or if they dropped the alternator with the sleeve exposed it could have cracked it. If in the past a remanufactured alternator was used, sometimes these sleeves are already damaged. As long as it can move into position the fracture won't jeopardize the function of the alternator. No lubrication is needed here, it's supposed to be a very firm slide fit. Let me know if I am talking about the wrong part of the alternator.
Truly excellent. Thank you.
Thanks for the supportive words, I don't monetize my videos, just trying to help others save $$.
@@SirFixAlotAutos I am just doing the starter replacement because the mechanic says everything else checks out, and I'm on a tight budget. Any tips on getting the bottom bolt back on the starter as it attaches to the firewall? Used a 24" extension and wobble connection on my socket to get it out. I'm guessing that installation is a similar process but I expect the bolt to want to fall out of the socket before I can get it attached.
Well done DAN congrulations ... Job well done ...
Very nice instruction. Thank you. But !!! Today i fought 8 hours, and end of day i gave up. I say it is impossible to change the Y-cable without lowering the engine. I have a tiptronic, not manual gear. It is little bit different. Absolutly impossible to disassemle the cable in the automatic Transmission Area. All this happen over 30 degree outside temperature. I am really fed up for today. Thank again, sharing your video in any case.
@Dr Jeep, sorry to hear the Automatic is a little different. Have you removed all of the under-trays under your car? In order to get a full view of the most rear terminal mounted to the transmission, that's what you'll need. Snaking things past the AC unit will require moving the AC unit up and out of the way. For this replacement of the battery cable, Porsche usually won't require you to move the engine down. If you have some photos to share, that would be a good starting point.
@@SirFixAlotAutos Hi Dan, for sure. All possible things i have removed or disassembled. Above the alternator, very easy. Same the connection where the Y starts. Cable Lug rubber was worn by the way, due to heat and high resistance. Air Oil separator as well as the middle of the manifold on top with the 4 clamps. Even the AC compressor was loosen and pulled to the back to get access. The 2 brackets of the cable i had loosen then. Down at the body under the car, the connection was disassembled too. All fine. But the plastic housing piece was not possible. 2 each plastic plugs and no way to remove them. But at least i scotch brited all connection surfaces and in a few days i go to Porsche. In the Video i can see, the mounting points at manual gear are much easier to see and deal with. Thanks again. Rick
can you show how did you diag the problem???
My 997 had this issue. Make sure you get the revised version of the cable. btw I think there was also issues with coil packs, and newer coil pack version came out,and something around maybe 50K-70K miles should replace the coil packs.
Porsche issued a “Service Bulletin” for the Coil Packs for the 997... Just had my 2006 997.1 plugs/coils replaced@80K miles.
Apparently, Porsche was still using the 996 Coil Packs for the first few years of the 997(2005)(2006)..maybe the 2007, not sure.
My shop saved the old parts. You can REALLY see the difference between to “old style” vs. “ new style Coil Packs.
Much more robust and sturdy. One sleeve on mine was split. Believe the Service Bulletin said replace at 50K or 5 years.
Mine went WAY past that with no issue. It does run much better and smooth with the new coils/plugs. Amazing better.
Best DIY video I’ve ever seen. Dan, please tell me you are in SoCal and that you are willing to work on my 997.1 S.
Thanks Arbi. I'm in Northern California and am just an enthusiast/hobbyist. Hope the video encourages you to DIY, Save $$
Damn. I just moved to SoCal from the Bay Area. Keep up the amazing work brother. I will try and do it myself. Be well.
Thank you for the video. I am going to tackle replacing the AOS this week. I have a 997.1 4S. Is there anything else I should know that could help a DIY beginner?
Main thing is allow yourself time and take your time. Anytime you rush you end up forgetting something and then have to return to fix it. They are actually pretty friendly cars to work on. Porsche generally has a place for everything. Use OEM parts and it'll come together well.
Were there any issued with the AOS hoses you removed or did you replace them while you were in there? I'm debating whether to just replace my failed AOS unit or replace the unit and the hoses. Did the connections feel brittle at all?
Yes the connections did feel brittle, they usually get that way with all the heat, it's really a rather poor design. I would recommend new hoses especially if you are going to disconnect while the engine is in the car, it's difficult to get to some of the connections and that's when they tend to snap. As you know, leakage in any of these hoses doesn't allow the car to run properly. Better safe than sorry, good luck.
Thanks for an awesome video. I used it to replace my alternator and install a IPD plenum while I was at it. On restart engine was rough and wouldn’t idle. The only thing I did different was accidentally disconnect the silver pipe/hose that runs vertically in front of the alternator. It unhooked up above the alternator and sounded pressurized? I connected it back, but I think it was a vacuum line. Any ideas?
There are two rubber sleeves (they look like a large hoses with hose clamps) on each end of the plenum and it's very difficult to see if they are sitting correctly, especially in the back. If those sleeves are a little off, they will let air bleed into the intake and the car won't run properly. There is very little tolerance on these and even if you over tighten the hose clamps it can cause them to unseat. If you remove the IPD plenum, mark the back with a yellow paint marker in the back and then use bright light and mirrors to make sure the hoses are sitting square. You are on the right path with regards to a vacuum leak. Also make sure the hoses that connect to the Air Oil separator are not cracked.
Thank you@@SirFixAlotAutos!
This is pure gold. Im taking this on next week and really appreciate the time you took to make it. One question. Would a slight engine drop make this easier?
Vincent, for sure it would help. The air-oil separator tubes would have benefitted from more room. Even gaining an inch of clearance would help. Great suggestion, let us know how it goes,. Good luck.
So in the end a slight drop was not at all beneficial. Your directions were spot on. Ty.
@@puopolvj2 Thanks for trying it that way. Most shops do this with the engine out (for IMS or other reasons,) our challenge is to save $$. Congrats, you got it done.
Great video ... I think my 2007 C4S has the same heat soak issue. For those on this thread that have replaced the starter cable, has this resolved the issue long-term? I’m on my 3rd battery in 4 years.
James, great question. Because the current has to travel from the battery upfront to the starter in the back you have multiple variables that you need to check including junctions, and finally the starter. The other thing is the cables and junctions are exposed under the car and do not run inside the 911, so you have to revisit them from time to time. I took a large-scale replacement approach and it fixed whatever issue there was and don't expect the issue to come back for a while. 3 batteries in four years could be due to other parasite leakages within your car, but let's assume that's not the case and you are just not passing enough current through to the starter as corrosion or resistance is building up somewhere along the path including the starter. Suggest doing a voltage drop test across the junctions and across the starter. www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm. Once your battery is not strong enough to overcome that resistance (line or starter) it will cease to crank over. Oh yes, the temperature just makes things worse with resistance: www.electricalexams.co/effect-of-temperature-on-resistance/. The voltage drop test will help you determine if you have an issue with the line, junction points, starter, or a combination. Test first before replacing parts, it will save $$. Good luck!
Nice video as usual , what was your reason to replace all the AOS pipes , I've done an AOS job twice now and the hardest part of the job was squeezing and removing the plastic pipes with your fingers from the AOS .... DID REPLACING THE EARTH CABLE solve your problems in the end, did you consider the positive cable from the battery to the bulkhead, it normally suffers from corrosion too causing starting problems. ...
My 911 had over 125k miles on it and it's 13 years old, the original Air Oil Separator pipes I noticed were quite brittle and some of the ends (the expansion tabs) were cracked. Since I was replacing them, I was able to use pliers to help open them up. One of the pipes cracked open when I was removing it with light handling, so I think they just get brittle. When installing new AOS pipes, they just click right in, it's wonderful using new OEM parts. Replacing the cable as shown did solve the warm start issue. I actually changed the starter when I went back in a second time so I know the starter wasn't the issue. Good point on the bulkhead cable, I have had to do this on 996 and it seems to be this design, but clean those connections. I'm just hoping this commercial free video will help other 997 and 996 owners.
Great video thank you. I'm guessing there was no recoding required after the battery was reconnected?
On my 997, it was only resetting the clock. I hope manufacturers will allow us DIYers to continue to work on our cars. These cars are expensive enough as is ;)
Thanks I'm change my started too🤫🤫🤫
If you're going in there and you have some miles, it's good to change out the starter too.
@@SirFixAlotAutos no the started is good I'm clean the cable and started screw and is better than ever perfect
@@freedivingmiami237 Glad things worked out
Excellent ....there is ALOT more to changing the starter than I thought.....think I’ll get my Indi shop to do this.
Do you recommend replacing the battery cable while you are there? Seems logical.
Thanks....
I would, you or the shop will have everything disconnected and cleared out of the way. The starter cable is just a little routing near the air conditioning compressor and a couple of anchor points. You'd be kicking yourself if 10k miles later you had to return just for one thing. If you plan to keep the car and you're going that deep, change everything around it. The Air Oil Separator (AOS) hoses are the most fragile and changing those whenever in there is a good thing to do. Good Luck.
Hi , i do have 997.1 i dropped the car to the agent as the car switched off while on idel and A/C on , however the agent still unable to find the cause any suggestion?
Sounds like you might have an intermittent short or an intermittent open circuit. You'll want to take the car to either an electrical specialist or Porsche dealer to chase it down. Good Luck.
Yeah I'm not gonna do this. Great video though
Thanks Dan! How similar will the process be for my 996 c4s?
It should be similar, now the AOS is a different design and located in a different spot, but it's still on top of the engine, so to speak. The hoses and the connections to the AOS are the most delicate. The routing of the battery cable will essentially be the same and the starter and alternator did not change much. If you're going to lower the engine a little to get access to the AOS, make sure you also loosen up the differential mounts so you aren't stressing those mounting points as the motor tilts down. Go slow and take your time plus recheck everything as you are putting it back together. Good Luck.
@@SirFixAlotAutos Wow, I did not expect such a quick reply. Thank you! I just have the slow to crank issue when the engine is warm... I think I just need to replace the cable harness. Do I still need to lower the engine? That sounds a little past my level of expertise!
Actually it wasn't the starter cable at all (Rennlist recommendation for starting issues). It was the starter itself which makes more sense since the heat would affect it in the engine compartment. I rebuilt it and you should have seen the commutators on the armature. I also installed a new brush plate assembly. It runs like new now. photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Porsche-Technical-Stuff/Porsche-997-Starter/i-JNhFMdt/1/8446afdd/XL/Armature%20-%202-XL.jpg
Here is the armature all cleaned up.
photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Porsche-Technical-Stuff/Porsche-997-Starter/i-j6kqD9F/0/1bbb5451/XL/Armature%20-%204-XL.jpg
Some say it's the cable and some say it's the starter. Glad you figured it out. Hope the video helped either way. In these cars, it's best to replace everything (if you have some mileage on it) because going back in there is time consuming.
Dan, when removing the "blind" A/C compressor bolt, are you using a !/2 inch drive ratchet and U-joint? I can't get a good bite with my 3/8 drive....too wiggly.
Hey Chris, make sure you a using an E-12 Torx socket, not a 12 mm regular hex socket, those are Torx-headed bolts. I am not using a half-inch drive, it's just a 3/8" drive. You're going to need a wobbly joint (double joint) in between to get the right angle and get some clearance back there as you need to come in at 45 degrees from the firewall. Experiment with different length extensions and go slowly here, you don't want to strip anything. www.amazon.com/Lisle-26830-E-12-Torx-Socket/dp/B000P0TZ60/ref=asc_df_B000P0TZ60/?
@@SirFixAlotAutos ...thanks, the front two were difficult to break loose. I'm off to the tool store to try and find an E-12 wobble socket to get more grip/leverage.
@@SirFixAlotAutos I wrapped electrical tape around my swivel and that helped. A short and then medium wobble extension was key to removal. While assembling the tape helped ensure that I wouldn't drop a any part of the tools in the abyss back there. All went well...about 3.5 hours from start to finish for the AOS ! Thank YOU!
great great video, i watched 98% of vid and might have skipped around or missed it, how much did the parts run?
Hi Javan, parts pricing changes a lot over the years so I don't speak about parts costs as pricing becomes outdated, I hope you understand. Please check online dealer sites like Gaudin or Sunset, you'll not only find assembly diagrams but the parts will be OEM as well. For the Starter and Alternator, those were Bosch parts and you can source those outside the dealership. Good Luck!
Great video. I'm soooo not looking forward to this job
I hear ya, Kevin, recommend taking your time and complete it over a couple days
Don't forget to clean the engine to chassis ground while you are at this.
Great point John, this is the one that comes off the engine near cylinder #6. Good time to also check/clean the battery ground.
Doesn’t explain how to get A\C pump off , load of crap about clip at back loose , never removed pump and put new oil separated as destroyed it to get cable out , yeah some bits are helpful but FFS be honest , I’ve actually done this job as I own a 997 Carrera S . And the rear A/C bot is a nightmare
Are you sure the "slow start when it is warm" is the result of the cable? My friend who owns a 997 got suckered in by a RENNLIST forum recommendation that it was the cable. Sure, a high resistance joint can be the problem and I have seen cables where the ends at the crimp had turned blue (due to the high resistance and high current during starting), but that was not the case in my friend's 997. By the way, the accepted maximum voltage drop in a 12V system is 0.5V from the source (the battery) to the load (the starter). In his case, it was the starter which I fully rebuilt. You should have seen the commutator on the starter. www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-k4hmS4/
Thanks for the acceptable voltage drop clarification. I think the point of this video was to show that you might as well change out everything including the starter, its cable, AOS and associated tubing, alternator, and anything else that looks old while you're in there with new (not rebuilt) parts. I discovered that halfway through and that's why the video is augmented with those additional changes. This car had over 100k miles on it and had no history of when the other components were changed. It's a lengthy job just to get to the starter, the less we enthusiasts have to go in there, the better. Let's not disparage Rennlist, authors provide advice/viewpoints with no expectation of compensation.
I would never disparage Rennlist IF the advice coming members on it or advice coming from members on any forum is accurate based on an understanding of the issue, meaning they have technical knowledge instead of just spewing information that they read somewhere without an understanding of it. That would be a dis-service to forum members. Sort of like the old wives tale of never leaving a battery on a concrete floor. At one point a very very very long time ago, it made sense, but today, nobody knows why.
Thank you for the video. I am going to tackle replacing the AOS this week. I have a 997.1 4S. Is there anything else I should know that could help a DIY beginner?
Have all your parts on hand, even overbuy on the ancillary stuff, you can always return it if you don't open the packaging. Make sure you are using OEM parts, aftermarket AOS tubing is kind of weak. Lower the motor a little to get some extra space and have really good lighting you can place back there so you can see what you are doing. Something like: www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/650-Lumen-Rechargeable-LED-Slim-Light-w-Top-Flash-Light-P307279.aspx?NTW+-+Smart+Shopping+-+BOOST+Items+Only+-+200&gclid=CjwKCAiA-_L9BRBQEiwA-bm5fjCDklAHiUk8lldmBUlwTELMGbcSnQrKeUPnshQM-utt6JZb_IG3YxoCdBUQAvD_BwE. Finally, take your time. Good luck!