Interesting about HDR 10. I have noticed the latest Disney stuff looks so good that Dolby Vision is just marketing at this point. I’m glad you brought that up.
4K physical arrived for me yesterday. I’m glad the grain has been stripped out. This film looks almost brand new, and is revealing details I’ve never seen before. Awesome job Jim
I am still using a 15 year old Pioneer KRP-500M plasma and have it paired with the Panasonic UB9000. I have not managed to get 4K discs looking as good as regular BD discs with HDR - SDR conversion so I just buy the 4K versions and play the BD discs. Excuse me if was mentioned in the video but has the Blu-ray disc been remastered too or is it the one from the 2011 release?
Dude I had a Pioneer Plasma too - if you 15 years out of you've definitely got your monies worth and more. Time to upgrade to OLED, you won't be disappointed - I wasn't. And you can then actually enjoy your 4K discs!
I did try out the LG G2 and S95C back last year for a few weeks but I ended up returning them. 4K UHD discs, gaming and screen real estate was superb but for everything else I simply preferred my Plamsa. Mostly nostalgia and build quality I guess if I am honest. I am planning on getting the A95L when its discounted later on in the year.
Carl, I think if you change output resolution on your Panasonic UB9000 to 1080p, it actually will output source direct and the player will not upscale, then the TV will do the upscale. That's my understanding anyway but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I saw a technical analyze and it seems they never went back to the camera negative and instead used the old 2K scan because lining up the BURAY image with the 4K image and overlapping them they line up perfectly which is not possible since every time the camera negative is scanned the position will be slightly different than the previous scan and they did the same test with Alien between the BLURAY and 4K and they didn't perfectly lineup!
@@hdmoviesource I assume not but I only learned about this recently! You might want to checkout this video! (ALIENS 4K Blu-ray TEST: In-depth technical analysis of a controversial release)
Great review. One criticism though, the way you spoke about Dolby Vision and HDR10 towards the end there makes it sound like you don’t totally understand the difference between the formats. It’s not just the bit depth. Dolby Vision utilizes dynamic metadata so the brightness/tone mapping can be adjusted in post per each and every scene. HDR10 uses static metadata so it only uses one brightness/tone map for the entirety of the content. Sure some content can look close, but to compare one screen shot from one format to another isn’t a valid argument since the Dolby Vision tone mapping can change from scene to scene. You’d have to critique each scene next to each other. Also, yes, you could say that newer tv’s and players have settings that can take the static HDR10 grading and apply some dynamic adjustments to make HDR10 look nicer, but it’s still not the same DV dynamic metadata that shows the creators intent for how each scene should look and feel. A person dialed in that grading scene by scene, in post, with the dp, show runner, director, producers, etc. signing off on it. From my experience a lot of HDR10 looks great but DV is still much better. And DV usually requires little to no tweaking, vs HDR, so I believe it’s the better option for the average plug and play consumer.
The creator shouldn't be using Dolby Vision, they should be using a display that's capable of displaying 1000 nits, which costs $40,000 from Sony. Dolby Vision is on the authoring and encoding side. Dolby Vision does require tweaking depending on how your display implemented Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision isn't like a free calibration, it's not perfect out of the box unfortunately.
You need look no further than James Cameron's enclosed endorsement he placed in his original Pan & Scan laser discs for Abyss and T2 where explains the benefits of full resolution from the Laserdisc on a 4:3 screen allows more detail. It is a composition image and not the full wide aspect ratio but knowing that no one of the day back in '92 or '93 had a wide screen set. I guess he went with a mass audience option and that could be argued here on the bit rate needs for streaming. This is fascinating as I certainly never considered the bit rate needs in order to (I suppose) "animate" the film grain. Really cool video :-)
Carl what a review. You have put a lot into this must have taken ages to complete. I watched Aliens as soon as it arrived I did notice some of the issues you have drew attention to but I did enjoy it i always thought the special edition looked ropey in parts. The scence when newts about to be taken by the alien in the water looked poor then it gets better again. So what can we look forward to when Warner issue The Terminator 40th anniversary 4k in the coming months. Hopefully we won't see Piranha 2 on 4k lol. Fantastic Review Carl.
I'm not a person who hates grain. There has to be a lot of grain for me to complain. For me, an ideal 4k restoration does keep some grain. Even though this 4k restoration, removed nearly all the grain, I was impressed with the amount of detail that is in the picture. I was very impressed with the 4k of Aliens and The Abyss. I would have been even more pleased with a little more grain but enjoyed the 4k movies a great deal. I definitely feel that they are a significant upgrade over the bluray, or DVD in the case of The Abyss.
Apparently True Lies source material is one of the reasons it looks worse than the others. I have Spanish Blu-ray which looks better though or more authentic look
I hate heavy gran in films but i also hate dnr smoothness like you said shame there isn't a technology out yet that keeps the detail without the gran that causes the smoothness in the imagery due to scrubbing. Gran for me is like watching a film on a tv that the signal isn't tuned into the picture like the old days where you had to tune in the tv back in the 70's and early 80's and you get the back ground noises of the radiation your picking up
Curious to have you do a deep dive on the LOTR 4K set release as this was the same post house that did all the work on the Cameron discs. Insightful video btw
I watched Aliens 4K. Transfer 8/10. Could be better and sharper. Too much grain taken out which reduces some sharpness and detail. They needed to increase grain detail slightly.
If you want grain watch it on video. Whats the point in having tech nearly 40 years in advance of available tech at time it was made, and still want it to lean towards it looking like its made in 1986
Interesting comments - I actually think the opposite with regards to the sharpness - it’s over sharpened in a lot of areas. In Ripley’s room on the space station, the objects in the room have edge enhancement due to over sharpening.
Film grain is part of what makes the picture you see on film! Its not just noise. You remove grain from a movie recorded on film and you're removing part of the image itself. That being said, i was still able to thoroughly enjoy watching Aloens on 4K UHD disc.
Watching this I felt like I had been transported back to my early 20s, when I did document review and worked on litigation at BigLaw in bright white flourescent lighted rooms. I prefer the blu-ray look. I may rip my 4K and burn it on a BD-66 disc, see how that looks.
Film grain arguments are akin to black level arguments, in that, I've heard them all of my life. I really don't get it. Movies are escape vehicles from reality for 2-3 hours. In real life if we can see well, we see things in crystal clear color, so I don't get this vinyl record pop noise mentality, and don't get me wrong, I still like vinyl records and Laserdiscs, but, escaping into a good movie is best when the color pops out, the sound is impressive and the picture is free from grain. My opinion, with all due respect to the snap, crackle and pop crowd.
Its funny i remember watching this at film school being told the graininess was intentional to give it a more gritty feel lol. But yeah it just doesnt look right . too smooth and sharp also too bright in some places. Its horror film its supposed to be dark.
Don't get me wrong I like your videos, you go into a lot of details but I honestly think people like you are way too obsessed with every little detail. And I'm not surprised you like film grain. I hate it. I like a crystal clear picture. Murder on the Orient Express I think was shot on film but it looks so clear it looks like it was shot digitally.
For me it doesn't matter whether it's film grain or shot digitally. I want something that represents the source perfectly. The image here has obviously been altered, and now looks digital. This is something I despise, not because it's digital, but because it's been altered.
I love grain in film, James Camaron has done a great job with this transfer. This is to much, see the picture, don't analyse it to much. I have a Sony projektor 570 ,and a panasonic 850. I've got Aliens bluray and 4k. 4k is the best way to see this movie in My choice is the 4k
From what I understand Avatar 1 has a 2K master. I have seen screencaps of CGI scenes at 2K. As to this remastering I don't like what they have done. 4K HDR bad remaster is still a bad remaster. I wish someone with a brain had looked at this and realised how much of the 'soul' they have removed from the movie. A.I. when used well can do wonders. But this is overdone. I noticed in other screenshots in another video that things like depth of field on faces are lost (blur from nose to eye etc). It looks so wrong. Also hairs on face and arms are totally false looking (like Hudsons hair arms or Hicks stubble).
Unless the walls are made of wood or metal, it probably looks like plastic. Thats probably what they used to build the sets. DUH. You need to get your eyes checked, because the actors look fantastic
It's like the 4K of Tim Burton's Batman, it's inconsistent and the new sound effects are an insult, completely ruined the movie, check it out if you haven't already.
I dont care what anyone says. Im buying all three movies in 4K Blu-ray when i can. In Search of Physical Media loved Aliens and Titanic. And i wasnt disappointed by Titanic
Titanic? Titanic is ment to be very good yes. Only really bad one is True Lies. Too much digital noise reduction. Waxy faces. Looks a bit better if turn off HDR.
For the average individual, it is considered rude and offensive to engage in such behaviour, simply because it is not feasible to progress to a film with a superior visual quality in 4K. Move on, this is the future of films. Film grain is noise and blocks out what you can see on screen.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Interesting about HDR 10. I have noticed the latest Disney stuff looks so good that Dolby Vision is just marketing at this point. I’m glad you brought that up.
Thanks Adam.
Amazing review. Thanks for going into this much depth!
Thanks Scruffy.
4K physical arrived for me yesterday. I’m glad the grain has been stripped out. This film looks almost brand new, and is revealing details I’ve never seen before. Awesome job Jim
Some may like it for sure, others like me don't love but I can still enjoy this great movie.
I am still using a 15 year old Pioneer KRP-500M plasma and have it paired with the Panasonic UB9000. I have not managed to get 4K discs looking as good as regular BD discs with HDR - SDR conversion so I just buy the 4K versions and play the BD discs.
Excuse me if was mentioned in the video but has the Blu-ray disc been remastered too or is it the one from the 2011 release?
Dude I had a Pioneer Plasma too - if you 15 years out of you've definitely got your monies worth and more. Time to upgrade to OLED, you won't be disappointed - I wasn't. And you can then actually enjoy your 4K discs!
I did try out the LG G2 and S95C back last year for a few weeks but I ended up returning them. 4K UHD discs, gaming and screen real estate was superb but for everything else I simply preferred my Plamsa. Mostly nostalgia and build quality I guess if I am honest. I am planning on getting the A95L when its discounted later on in the year.
@davieslm Yeah I missed my plasma for a little while after I upgrading but you will soon enjoy the abilities of the new TV. A95L - nice!
The blu ray disc in the 4K combo pack is the 1080p SDR version of the new AI enhanced remaster.
Carl, I think if you change output resolution on your Panasonic UB9000 to 1080p, it actually will output source direct and the player will not upscale, then the TV will do the upscale. That's my understanding anyway but please correct me if I'm wrong.
It will yeah. That is one workaround for this test yes. Luckily, I have a Reavon also to test this, and it worked out well. Thanks Mark.
I saw a technical analyze and it seems they never went back to the camera negative and instead used the old 2K scan because lining up the BURAY image with the 4K image and overlapping them they line up perfectly which is not possible since every time the camera negative is scanned the position will be slightly different than the previous scan and they did the same test with Alien between the BLURAY and 4K and they didn't perfectly lineup!
Really? Couldn't they just fix that though after?
@@hdmoviesource I assume not but I only learned about this recently! You might want to checkout this video! (ALIENS 4K Blu-ray TEST: In-depth technical analysis of a controversial release)
@@entertainmentwizard2703 I saw it. really good video.
@@hdmoviesource Yeah a lot of great information and technical analyze!
Yeah, loved it.
Great review. One criticism though, the way you spoke about Dolby Vision and HDR10 towards the end there makes it sound like you don’t totally understand the difference between the formats. It’s not just the bit depth. Dolby Vision utilizes dynamic metadata so the brightness/tone mapping can be adjusted in post per each and every scene. HDR10 uses static metadata so it only uses one brightness/tone map for the entirety of the content. Sure some content can look close, but to compare one screen shot from one format to another isn’t a valid argument since the Dolby Vision tone mapping can change from scene to scene. You’d have to critique each scene next to each other. Also, yes, you could say that newer tv’s and players have settings that can take the static HDR10 grading and apply some dynamic adjustments to make HDR10 look nicer, but it’s still not the same DV dynamic metadata that shows the creators intent for how each scene should look and feel. A person dialed in that grading scene by scene, in post, with the dp, show runner, director, producers, etc. signing off on it. From my experience a lot of HDR10 looks great but DV is still much better. And DV usually requires little to no tweaking, vs HDR, so I believe it’s the better option for the average plug and play consumer.
The creator shouldn't be using Dolby Vision, they should be using a display that's capable of displaying 1000 nits, which costs $40,000 from Sony. Dolby Vision is on the authoring and encoding side. Dolby Vision does require tweaking depending on how your display implemented Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision isn't like a free calibration, it's not perfect out of the box unfortunately.
What a thorough and expertly done review!
Thanks.
Is it the blu ray from 2011 or 2014?
It's from the Alien 6-Film Collection.
You need look no further than James Cameron's enclosed endorsement he placed in his original Pan & Scan laser discs for Abyss and T2 where explains the benefits of full resolution from the Laserdisc on a 4:3 screen allows more detail. It is a composition image and not the full wide aspect ratio but knowing that no one of the day back in '92 or '93 had a wide screen set. I guess he went with a mass audience option and that could be argued here on the bit rate needs for streaming. This is fascinating as I certainly never considered the bit rate needs in order to (I suppose) "animate" the film grain. Really cool video :-)
Thanks Jefffan.
Carl what a review. You have put a lot into this must have taken ages to complete. I watched Aliens as soon as it arrived I did notice some of the issues you have drew attention to but I did enjoy it i always thought the special edition looked ropey in parts. The scence when newts about to be taken by the alien in the water looked poor then it gets better again. So what can we look forward to when Warner issue The Terminator 40th anniversary 4k in the coming months. Hopefully we won't see Piranha 2 on 4k lol. Fantastic Review Carl.
Thank you Phil, much appreciated.
I'm not a person who hates grain. There has to be a lot of grain for me to complain. For me, an ideal 4k restoration does keep some grain.
Even though this 4k restoration, removed nearly all the grain, I was impressed with the amount of detail that is in the picture.
I was very impressed with the 4k of Aliens and The Abyss.
I would have been even more pleased with a little more grain but enjoyed the 4k movies a great deal. I definitely feel that they are a significant upgrade over the bluray, or DVD in the case of The Abyss.
I know a lot of people that don't like grain, and that's why they like watching newer movies. I just don't want old movies to look like new movies.
Excellent review, thank you!
My pleasure!
The Abyss and Aliens 4K discs are pretty good to me but True Lies is the real disaster in many scenes.
Yeah True Lies is absolutely terrible.
Apparently True Lies source material is one of the reasons it looks worse than the others. I have Spanish Blu-ray which looks better though or more authentic look
Interesting, I'd like to see that.@@ps5andstuffhere
Channel called twin flix says he talked to some people involved in the remaster
Really? I'd be interested in knowing what they talked about.@@ps5andstuffhere
I hate heavy gran in films but i also hate dnr smoothness like you said shame there isn't a technology out yet that keeps the detail without the gran that causes the smoothness in the imagery due to scrubbing. Gran for me is like watching a film on a tv that the signal isn't tuned into the picture like the old days where you had to tune in the tv back in the 70's and early 80's and you get the back ground noises of the radiation your picking up
Thats fine, I think they could offer two versions, one with grain and one without. But the one without shouldn't look like DNR, it should look clean.
Ordered my copy the other day. Can not wait to experience this new transfer. Great review by the way👍👍
Thanks.
Amazing review, and couldn't agree more. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Curious to have you do a deep dive on the LOTR 4K set release as this was the same post house that did all the work on the Cameron discs. Insightful video btw
I was making videos back then, but they suffered from similar issues.
I watched Aliens 4K. Transfer 8/10. Could be better and sharper. Too much grain taken out which reduces some sharpness and detail. They needed to increase grain detail slightly.
8/10 is way too high in my opinion.
If you want grain watch it on video. Whats the point in having tech nearly 40 years in advance of available tech at time it was made, and still want it to lean towards it looking like its made in 1986
Need a proper remaster like Arrow etc would do. Minimal grain. It looks like CGI now the characters
Agreed.
Interesting comments - I actually think the opposite with regards to the sharpness - it’s over sharpened in a lot of areas. In Ripley’s room on the space station, the objects in the room have edge enhancement due to over sharpening.
Film grain is part of what makes the picture you see on film! Its not just noise. You remove grain from a movie recorded on film and you're removing part of the image itself.
That being said, i was still able to thoroughly enjoy watching Aloens on 4K UHD disc.
PS All this endless talk about light is just nit picking
I really enjoyed watching it again.
@@CDubya.82 How do you mean?
Watching this I felt like I had been transported back to my early 20s, when I did document review and worked on litigation at BigLaw in bright white flourescent lighted rooms. I prefer the blu-ray look. I may rip my 4K and burn it on a BD-66 disc, see how that looks.
haha yea.
Peter Jackson and Cameron use the same people to remaster there 4ks. Park Circus. Park Circus remastered Raging Bull 4K which looked very good though
Park is probably just doing what the director wants him to do.
That's interesting. Raging Bull was good.
You might be right.
Have you actually watched it in 4K yet?
Yes.
Thank you Carl. 🙏🏻
You are very welcome
@@hdmoviesource 🤝
Thanks.
Film grain arguments are akin to black level arguments, in that, I've heard them all of my life. I really don't get it. Movies are escape vehicles from reality for 2-3 hours. In real life if we can see well, we see things in crystal clear color, so I don't get this vinyl record pop noise mentality, and don't get me wrong, I still like vinyl records and Laserdiscs, but, escaping into a good movie is best when the color pops out, the sound is impressive and the picture is free from grain. My opinion, with all due respect to the snap, crackle and pop crowd.
Fair point Mark.
Very informative.
Thank you.
👍
Thanks.
Its funny i remember watching this at film school being told the graininess was intentional to give it a more gritty feel lol. But yeah it just doesnt look right . too smooth and sharp also too bright in some places. Its horror film its supposed to be dark.
haha, yeah. I agree.
Very interesting account. P.s your mouth sounds very wet when you talk - not great for my misphonia 😂
Ill work on it.
I want true 4k not this UHD BS.
Me too Alpha.
Don't get me wrong I like your videos, you go into a lot of details but I honestly think people like you are way too obsessed with every little detail. And I'm not surprised you like film grain. I hate it. I like a crystal clear picture. Murder on the Orient Express I think was shot on film but it looks so clear it looks like it was shot digitally.
For me it doesn't matter whether it's film grain or shot digitally. I want something that represents the source perfectly. The image here has obviously been altered, and now looks digital. This is something I despise, not because it's digital, but because it's been altered.
I love grain in film, James Camaron has done a great job with this transfer. This is to much, see the picture, don't analyse it to much. I have a Sony projektor 570 ,and a panasonic 850. I've got Aliens bluray and 4k. 4k is the best way to see this movie in My choice is the 4k
Okay.
From what I understand Avatar 1 has a 2K master. I have seen screencaps of CGI scenes at 2K. As to this remastering I don't like what they have done. 4K HDR bad remaster is still a bad remaster. I wish someone with a brain had looked at this and realised how much of the 'soul' they have removed from the movie. A.I. when used well can do wonders. But this is overdone. I noticed in other screenshots in another video that things like depth of field on faces are lost (blur from nose to eye etc). It looks so wrong. Also hairs on face and arms are totally false looking (like Hudsons hair arms or Hicks stubble).
Agreed, it's definitely an issue. I would love them to start over again.
Unless the walls are made of wood or metal, it probably looks like plastic. Thats probably what they used to build the sets. DUH. You need to get your eyes checked, because the actors look fantastic
Well you can't see what we see. Maybe like wax dnr look? That's fine if do
I can see the DNR on the walls, my eyes are fine thank you.
It's like the 4K of Tim Burton's Batman, it's inconsistent and the new sound effects are an insult, completely ruined the movie, check it out if you haven't already.
Thanks James.
I dont care what anyone says. Im buying all three movies in 4K Blu-ray when i can.
In Search of Physical Media loved Aliens and Titanic. And i wasnt disappointed by Titanic
He did not really do a proper video about them. Abyss looks very good though
@@ps5andstuffhere He watched it three times. Ill take his word for it over yours
Titanic? Titanic is ment to be very good yes. Only really bad one is True Lies. Too much digital noise reduction. Waxy faces. Looks a bit better if turn off HDR.
@@ps5andstuffhere Ill see it to believe it. Thanks
I didn't see his reviews, but he though Titanic was a reference disc, that's when I stopped watching.
the dolby atmos soundtrack was absolutely terrible
What did you find wrong with it?
the non existence of the Dolby Atmos@@hdmoviesource
When they landed on the surface, didn't you hear all the rain around you? I thought it sounded really good.
I will listen again@@hdmoviesource
It's well worth it. I think it was done quite well.
For the average individual, it is considered rude and offensive to engage in such behaviour, simply because it is not feasible to progress to a film with a superior visual quality in 4K. Move on, this is the future of films. Film grain is noise and blocks out what you can see on screen.
It's unfortunate.
Watch Silver Bullet 4K by shout factory if want to see amazing 4K. Aliens could have been amazing 4k
That was a good one.