Why We Do NOT Use vermiculite in Our In-ground Pools
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- precisionpool.net | Precision Pool Construction 83 Haverhill Rd. Amesbury, MA 978-388-2585 | Vermiculite VS Gunite bottom. Newburyport Ma
In this video we are in Newburyport Massachusetts replacing a liner for a customer who had severe black algae problems. This video show where the black algae comes from and why we use a solid gunite base for our in-ground pool and NOT vermiculite like what is shown in this video.
My pool is over 25 years old and I have a vermiculite bottom we just replace the liner and I didn't have any of that stuff that you're showing here my vermiculite was as clean as it was and when it was installed 25 years ago
Yea what he is saying about algae going through a liner is bunk
Much of the time it's actually the sunlight penetrating through old bleached liners that causes the algae growth. Some of the worst jobs I've seen have been either concrete bottoms or sand bottoms with a light colored liner. Darker blue or darker liners in general tend to have less algae growth underneath due to the lack of sunlight penetrating the vinyl. I would choose a vermiculite bottom over anything else. It's safest for the liner and customers tend to love the soft bottom on their feet. This is just my opinion however.
Can you give my a hint hi ow much veemiculate per concrete bag
You're absolutely correct the liners printed on dark blue vinyl is best for preventing LG growth underneath the liner
alga gowning through the pool "liner itself 0:50"? I have never heard of anything such as that....so, how does the alga make it through a liner but the liner keeps water in/out?
after treating the algae growing on the vermiculite, is it necessary to scrap off the treated algae before installing the new vinyl liner?
I understand your issues with vermiculite bottoms, as the quality and deterioration depend on many factors, such as age, original mix and thickness, ground water conditions, and preparation before the vermiculite. Any time we encounter a 'cement bottom' ( 'gunite' is when we hire a full crew to shoot a pool @ 200. per yard) in a vinyl pool, there are either many liner patches or existing holes in the liner. We find that as hard as some try by grinding and sanding the new sand mix cement, there is always a rough bump or hard poppy seed that eventually wear through either by brushing, cleaners, or foot traffic. With a cement bottom, where is that leak water to go? No porous bottom..water bed under the hopper! The reason for using vermiculite alternatives is either cost, time, or experience. Working with vermic has sort of become a lost art, as there is the need to acquire the troweling ability to hit the floor once and call it finished. We offer buyers a min. 2" concrete cap over the soil before the vermic, and after seeing craters in many pics, they opt for the additional $$ to do this. Rain proof, no erosion or soft spots, no mildew/algea growths, no call backs. I have 46 years in this somewhat embarrassing and unregulated trade, and the guy who does things right is always smothered by fifty hacks. By the way- Your whole job in the video is VERMICULITE!
Good luck- Rick
Crystal Pools I have to repair my (1971) pool bottom and sides that is vermiculite. Will repair myself, but cannot find proper suggested mixtures. What can you help me with? Thanks!!
Vermiculite is considered the gold standard for vinyl liner pool bases. Concrete being non-porous will crack under the hydro-static pressures created by ground water. These cracks will cause cuts in the liner and require costly repairs to the floor when replacing the liner. Is the real reason you do not use vermiculite because it saves you $500-$2000 in materials and labor?
+John Gibel Less than a week ago, I commented about the job being done on my pool. With that being said, I have since learned that the sand to cement ratio is very different when cement is used instead of vermiculite. The cement is dry mixed, troweled on, then lightly sprayed with a mist of water. When cured, water permeates right through the concrete fairly easily. When concrete is used as pool bases with a standard sand to cement ratio, that's when problems like cracking and heaving begin. One reason vermiculite is the gold standard, is because it is a fairly soft bottom on your feet as well as being porus to ground water, and liners are supposed to last longer, but some still say cement is better. Since the liner went in today, the heavy sand ratio to cement is still a hard bottom. So who knows. Again, let's see what happens 10 years from now.
+Bourne Accident With out grout mix, it is actually more expensive materails wise than vermiculite. We have been doing this for almost 15 years now and as a result are starting to see how our bottoms look 10+ years later. The gunite bottoms stay smooth, and we do FAR less patch work on a liner replacement.
Use the pre-mix base
doesn't using gunite defeat the purpose of a vinyl liner being the cheapest option of a pool
yeah a lot of things wrong with this video. most builders if not all now use a vermiculite/conrete base for some soft give when walking in the pool. and with gunite. that will actually break down over time and is a lot more expensive to fix/replace drains in only racking up bills for customers. the only part that should be concrete only is the bottom bowl pan for obvious reasons. and future customers. no algae will not grow through a vinyl liner. and def stay away from anyone saying a sand bottom is a good idea. and vermiculite is actually not that expensive. I can purchase a pallet of 45 pound bags with 55 bags for around $350-400 and basically do a full bottom and walls rebuild with that.
Could you let me know where you can get a pallet of vermiculite for $400
Poor curing process or crappy mix
I have a 10 year old vermiculite based vinyl lined pool in the northeast. The liner was creased and wrinkled and was leaking. We stripped the liner and foam. There was evidence of heavy mold and problematic deterioration all over. It really stunk like hell during the removal process. So, I just replaced the sides with concrete mix instead of vermiculite and repaired all the other areas. Let's see what happens. We know the vermiculite didn't last, so I'll get back to you in 10 years or so and let you know how the cement held up.
Bourne Accident... it's all about the cure time of the vermiculite before the original liner was installed. I've replaced plenty of liners that were 20+ yrs old and the vermiculite was still in perfect shape, even with inches of ground water. Another thing is that you can set liners with sitting ground water on a vermiculite bottom because the vermiculite is porous, unlike the concrete. And as others have mentioned, vermiculite will not crack when the ground may settle and creat jagged edges that could cut a liner.
You wasted time and money lol
Concrete in the northeast? Isn't that asking for trouble with expansion and contraction with the change of seasons?
Update: You guys on YT were right. Didn't last. Not properly fixed. New liner wrinkled, pool is leaking, and they want to put another liner in. PIA big time. The pool has been closed for two years now. Deciding what to do.
@BourneAccident I wonder if there is some kind of barrier sealant that can augment the prevention of mold, algae, etc? My understanding that up here in PA, true concrete is a no-no. With the drastic swings in climate temperature, it's too prone to crack. That's why vermiculite is so highly recommended. But hey, I'm just learning all this right now because I'm also in PA and considering a DIY liner pool.
forget about the vermiculite, this is meant for sloppy finishers...2-3" of grout or ciment or concrete, mortar etc, will never crack with a wire mesh, it will last a lifetime. We build everything and anything in concrete and it lasts. BUT, you need some iron in it for protection against shear. Grout and concrete has a huge compression resistance but are worth shit against shear forces. Just add some iron and it is bulletproof. Vermiculite is just a fancy shit product. It's not rocket science. We build massive retention pond only with concrete and a protection liner and it last ! why that soft vermiculite ? it's because it does not harden fast and you can chip it off easily...it's meant for bad finishers, period.
Vermiculite is superior to gunnite in every way. I've built hundreds of vinyl liner Vermiculite bottom pools and i promise you this result wasn't due to using Vermiculite.
This doesn't appear to be damage from ground water, but even if it is, it's still not the Vermiculite failing, it's shitty construction. We add pumps under the ground packed in gravel if ground water can't be avoided, but usually... it can.
Most likely, this pool had a leak somewhere. Educated guess says liner was fucked or the cuts made around the liners fittings didn't age well(again, shitty construction)
I've seen Vermiculite, gunnite, concrete, and straight sand bottoms that held up just fine even after 15-20yrs. Any material can fail if quality work isn't done at every step(starting with the grading so that simple shit like ground water is irrelevant in the first place) then even great industry leading products like Vermiculite can fail... Doesn't justify you shitting on a quality product just because you have another preference.
This entire video is wrong, concrete allows liner to float. He even said it in video haha.
Yeah I hope you guys don't stay in business too long. This is a joke. You Don't use vermiculite because it's expensive and you like cutting corners.
Ha gunite is more expensive and a tougher trowel process. We have been doing it this way for over 15 years. And on a few of the liners we have replaced in some of the early pools the bottom is perfect! It trowels out way smoother, does not wash out like vermiculite does if there is ever ground water or a liner leak.
Our pools liners last lounger and base is much harder finish....and we have been a thriving double digit growth company since 2002 So I guess whatever we are doing we are doing pretty well. There are always more ways than one to skin a cat. Over the years we have found a gunite grout mix brought in dry, hand troweled smooth give us the best base possible for our vinyl liner pools especially with the amount of free-forms we do.
if you think gunite is harder to trowel than a vermiculite/portland mix. may be time to reevaluate your career. vermiculite is one of the easiest to work with and very forgiving and can be shaved and sculpted after hardening. unite cannot
Concrete is the only way to go
I'm in GA where j can buy veemiculate or the concre free e mix to DIY my bottom pool. Sorry but I'm pretty short in money to hire s ok me pro. At this point