I think when a lot of people say "don't get mad at the other woman", they're directing that mostly to outsiders who are judging the situation. Like when Adam Levine cheated on his pregnant partner, the initial dog pile was squarely on the young girI he cheated with and there was a backlash against that but the backlash was directed at people who were dogpiling the affair partner, not the woman who was cheated on. If that makes sense? I think the victim can be mad at both of them, but it's just weird to me when outside observers are more mad at the affair partner than the one who cheated
I've seen the women who got cheated on be way more angry at the other woman than onlookers. It's always "she seduced him!" Or "he loved me, but she changed him"... onlookers can be cruel, but surprisingly often I hear people defending the "other woman", too ("well, she wasn't cheating on anyone") Men would probably get away with being the "other man" way easier, but I don't know any recent examples so I can only assume
Fs but the hate towards ariana is more because this is not the first time she’s done this like shes literally notorious for getting with men in relationships so it’s understandable lol
When I was younger and naive, I assumed that my female dominated office was drama because 'too many women'. Turns out the male dominated office when I joined IT was just as much drama. Gossip, bitchiness etc. It was bonkers. And I cringe at remembered pick me behaviour. Argh the shame.
I once worked at a female dominated office that felt like high school 2.0 and girlboss mentality was rampant, and the management seemed to single me out for every little thing; right now I still work in a (different) female dominated team but it's very supportive and I don't ever feel targeted (in fact everybody on that team loves me) lolol so yeah it definitely has nothing to do with gender it's just that ppl are ppl and sometimes that ends up in horrible situations that look worse than it is and reflect poorly on whichever demographic may be dominant lolol
Fr. It's an easy assumption to make when you're a woman and are mostly around other women, because you'll mostly see that behavior from women and then not consider that it's most likely just because you aren't around men as often. If you're around both of the same mental maturity and what not equally, it will be very much similar. Many assume a guy's hostility is always going to be more physical and obvious while women tear each other down mentally, but anyone of any gender can do psychological warfare. Frat guys have hazing rituals that are all about displaying hierarchies and humiliation, after all. Dudes spread gossip all the same. It's like how people assumed that girls love to talk about boys all the time, but when you ask dudes, dudes will say they loved to talk about girls all the time. Heck, the girl's girl thing at the beginning of the video sounds like my friend's version of the bro's code. If a workplace is dominated by unhealthy and immature people, it'll be unhealthy and immature, no matter what demographic, basically.
I am working in the technical field for year together with man and I worked a few years with a very female laboratory. It is literally the same. You might have more jokes about naughty stuff with the men, but that is the only difference.
Friend of mine drives a taxi. It's a small town, there are 16 drivers in this company, she's the only woman. Naturally there are women in other positions, but still, she's with these guys all the time. And drama there is insane. Men there LOOOOVE to gossip&start crap just because...idk, they are bored. And it's not 20 year olds. Most of these men are 45+. It's people, not gender.
I'm in nursing so majority female dominated. Basically, every male nurse I've ever met is lauded as being the most amazingly kind competent angelic nurse ever and are seen as a cut above their female peers. If they're young, they have soooo much potential. If they're more experienced, they're soooo wise and know everything. If they're senior, they've earned it. If they're junior, it won't be for long. Never have I encountered such gushing over equally nice/supportive/competent female nurses. This is anecdotal, of course, and doesn't account for intersectional considerations, but I doubt my experience would be that far off from other people's. There's also evidence to suggest that male nurses are promoted faster than female nurses. There is such a massive amount of internalised misogyny in nursing that is never acknowledged and creates this horrible cycle where people adopt similar attitudes to the one you talk about in your comment. Day one of uni we were allocated into our seminar groups, and I was in one of the two groups that had guys in it. ALL of the other girls said how happy they were in a mixed group over and over again that first week. They kept saying this because "girls are just so bitchy and the boys will balance it out". We hadn't even remotely gotten to know each other yet. How can you say there was any bitchiness? Everyone always treated this one guy in my class like he was a literal genius because he did well in his assignments. When female students (such as myself lol) got the same or better marks, nobody commented on it at all. Everyone mothered him constantly because he was just soooo sweet, and yes, he was a lovely boy, but was he any lovelier than the friendliest girls? Not really. Conversely, the bitchiest senior nurse I know at my current workplace is a man. He creates a hostile work environment constantly and seems to enjoy making you feel inadequate. If he were a woman people would have no problem labeling her a bitch, but because he's a man he's "sassy" and everybody vyes for his attention and approval all the time. I'm sooo sick of it why can't everybody just be girls girls??
What's interesting is that traditionally, being a guy's guy is almost opposite of a girl's girl. The guy's guy will help cover up another guy's cheating and other stuff.
There was an article on how men bond by harassing and insulting each other. If you say hey maybe it would be good to be nice to each other? They’re like 🙄we’re not sensitive like women
Had a male coworker I was friends with cheat on his girlfriend with a female coworker (I’m a gay guy btw). I voiced that I thought it was wrong immediately, but left it to him to either stop or tell his girlfriend about it. All of his other guy friends went along with it and even helped him cover it up. After several weeks of this and seeing how miserable his girlfriend became (she could tell something was off, but didn’t know what) I just told her. I wasn’t friends with her and didn’t even like her that much, but that type of behavior is just wrong. I gave him a million chances to make it right on his own. Needless to say he and I are no longer friends and he ended up dating and later cheating on our coworker. Men do have a bro code, but that mostly only applies to how they treat each other and not women
Why didn’t you mind your fucking business? They were weird for helping him cover it up, and it’s fine if you felt compelled to aid someone who was suffering, but you started the situation determined to decide for others what they should do with their bodies. Conservative shit.
The perks of being gay. I do the same exact thing out of respect for my friends, regardless of gender. Funnily enough, I was the one cheated by friends and no one told me about it, my partner did it himself lol
I think the whole “confidence” phrase of “walk into a room knowing you’re the hottest girl in the room” furthers the idea that we have to compare our beauty to others, is that really true confidence?
It’s honestly a power that we curse half of the time. I’m past that phase in my life, but I was an absolute tyrant in my own head. Women were never nice to me in my early 20s, so I looked to men who didn’t want to be my friend but at least they weren’t so mean. The early 2000s were super slut shamey. I was too autistic to understand people’s intentions. I fucked up for sure, but it was a pretty hopeless situation. 🥺💔
True confidence is acknowledging & accepting your own strengths & weaknesses & not feeling any need to compare yourself to others because everyone is perfectly imperfect in their own unique ways.
holding other women accountable for their actions is like overlooked as a way of supporting women. being able to talk to someone about a poor decision, opinion, belief, etc. is caring for them & supporting them
Especially when those bad actions negatively affect other women too. By letting it slide when a woman gets into a relationship with a man they know is in a monogamous relationship, you are essentially signing off on the harm being done to the innocent woman in the equation who just wanted a normal relationship with a guy who's a d-bag. Like, how is that being a girls' girl either?
It's like those examples of permissive parenting where the parent addresses the child that is hitting another child, trying to help them with whatever emotional issue has come that is causing them to hit someone, without at all addressing the other child that is getting hit. Actually loving and parenting your child would be first making sure they *stop* hurting another child and showing concern for the child being hit first. And then, once harm has been dealt with, addressing the root cause of their behavior. This yes-man style of 'support' in any form just encourages toxic, self-centered behavior with no regard for the victims of it. If your vibe is hurting others, maybe it deserves to be killed.
@auroraborealissings2084 fr and me calling out my friends when they do stuff like that is me hoping to be called out when im not doing something right in the future. Also for the most part if your friends hype up your bad actions theyre likely still not going to share the consequences of those actions.
@@Eric-md3mpMaybe the system got messed up and the only reason we can see Tara Moknee in this universe is that enough people in that universe liked and subscribed. And vise versa for the cow in that universe
i love how you take a piece of celebrity gossip and turn it into a full dissection of gender politics and interpersonal relationships... big brain behaviour
For me, being a girl's girl is literally don't do what you wouldn't want done to you, to another girl. For example, don't take someone's married spouse when they are still married. Don't want to get hurt? Don't hurt another girl.
The spouse is a human being with his own rights and voice and cannot be "taken", he can only choose to leave. Hitting on a married/taken man sucks but a man can never be taken from you. He can only DECIDE to leave you, all on his own, because he wants to.
@@iva6583 Yeah, but also, the other woman never 'has' to be the other woman. She also has agency in not being an asshole. It's ok to hold both parties to the standard of being a decent person and not cheating.
It creates gross genralizations about men and women, and relationships in general. A very bold excuse to be ignorant about humanity. "That's why I stopped dating" or "That's why I stopped talking to men". Yeah great progress we've made in humanity haven't we.
When your partner cheated on you with someone who you know, then it's absolutely fine to blame both of them, because the other person *knew* they were screwing up someone's relationship. If it's a stranger who you have no connection with however, then it's very possible that your partner just hid their relationship status entirely, at which point only the partner is to blame. If it's unknown whether or not your partner has hidden his relationship, then I'd still only blame the partner until evidence to the contrary emerges. Sorry that the comment is specifically about a topic that you wanted to get ahead of responses to that, I couldn't help myself
Well said! I’ll also say from personal experience, when I was in high school, I found out one of my closest friends and my then boyfriend were hooking up behind my back. I was more upset with my friend because she was someone I had know for over a year, who I trusted deeply, confided in, who I shared so much of myself with. On the other hand, he was some guy I had recently started dating. Perhaps it is not fair that I held her to a higher standard (maybe there’s something deeper to unpack there), but I was more hurt and distraught by her actions than his, even though they did the same thing. They were both wrong, but context of friendship enhanced the “wrongness” of it to me, if that makes sense.
@@misslinguinniperfectly said, women should be supportive of the women in their lives instead of treating them like competition. Female friendships full of trust and fun is a beautiful thing.
Cheating is always about the betrayal of trust. We're mad at the partner rather than the Other Woman because he's the one who has promised to be faithful. But if it's a close friend, well... she also kind of implicitly has promised not to #&% you over and lie and go behind your back. It's absolutely normal to be hurt by that just as much as his betrayal.
@@misslinguinniI think it's definitely a case by case basis to determine who you should be holding to a higher standard and be more hurt by their disloyal actions. I think in your circumstance, you were well within your rights to be more hurt over your friend backstabbing you than the boyfriend. I think for the most part, the person who should probably be judged more harshly is the person you feel closer to and who you've known longer, if that makes sense?
I think the reason why people are so mad at Ariana is bc she fully knew SpongeBob was married and has a kid but boinked him anyway. Lots of folks on the internet seem to point this out as a pattern of behavior for Ariana which is why she is getting so much ire. I think in cases like this, it’s perfectly justified for the person who was cheated on to be pissed at both their partner and the other person. Ariana seems to cut other women down to boost her own self confidence and that’s not even mentioning her controversies around cosplaying as other ethnicities.
i'll be honest, i decided to read through the comments before watching the video or reading the description and almost had a heart attack because i thought you were talking about Tom Kenny and not whoever Ethan Slater is
I really appreciate your take on "the other woman". Having been in that situation, it was so frustrating to constantly be told that I should only be angry at the guy and not the close friend that went after him. Why not both
It’s one thing if the person your SO cheats with doesn’t know he’s in a relationship, then he is effectively cheating on both of you. But a close friend going out of their way to go behind your back? That’s a betrayal of the friendship, just as much as your SO cheating is a betrayal of the romantic relationship. Yeah of course you get to be angry at both.
One time I got infatuated with a man I worked with briefly (already a bad idea) and he kept saying his wife was interested in polyamory so he wanted to start seeing me. I didn’t try to push things, I just let things sit and wait to see if she really was. He’d give me updates every day on his obvious attempts to convince her. She eventually said that she wasn’t comfortable with opening up her relationship so I ended anymore contact with the man. They had 5 kids and were already having relationship issues. I did not need to be involved with that drama or be his bandaid for his lonely dick. Have more self respect and respect for others. What dick is truly worth ruining lives over? None.
Good for you! He was trying to sneakily get the go-ahead from his wife. I knew someone who got knocked up by a guy in an open marriage. He has many kids with multiple women and his wife also has boyfriends. Look out for yourself and I'm so glad I'm not dating anymore 😂
It's also VERY common for women to skip intersectionality. A Black woman may have legitimate complaints about a White woman and other White women shut her down with "girls have to stick together." Girls' girls stand up for their sisters and hold misbehaving women accountable. Knowing affair partners are included in this.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had legitimate concerns about my white coworker at my last job and the reaction I got from my black male coworkers was “your just jealous”. 💀 like dude, she’s on the clock… in a room… on FaceTime for half an hour multiple times.
It's nice to believe that all women are nice but realistically they're probably doing it because they know they can get away with it, get their validation
Someone saying you're not a girl's girl is worse than someone calling you a c**t or a b***h. It's hard to come back from that one. It's not vulgar in any way, yet it cuts the deepest.
@wynn1587Idiot. The term “guy’s guy” also exists. Your feminism is fake. You jump at words and pretend there’s demeaning ideology behind them when language is more complicated than that.
It’s different when you KNOW he’s married, and when you DONT. I think that’s the difference for me. If you don’t know, I don’t have beef with you, and might ask you out for coffee, to have a bitch fit.
Tara liked a comment that went into detail about what you are talking about, so it’s safe to say she knows the difference. She was specifically talking about the women who do know the men are in a relationship and go through with the affair. Have a great day.
honestly. i would feel bad if i was the other woman and i didn’t even know, bc he’s cheating on you too, and you’re not even his first choice either. like it would feel shitty :/
A guy I once dated ended up having a GF. I didn't know. She found out my number somehow and called me attacking me. I hung up on her and ignored her. Her friend decided to call me and spoke to me calmly. I explained everything to her and told her when her friend decides to speak to me with respect, I will gladly speak to her. She finally calmed down and spoke to me like an adult and I explained everything to her. How he lied about being single. How when I went to his home there was nothing of hers. I even met his mother and grandmother. Neither of them said he had a GF. Her anger was at the wrong person and I made sure she directed it at him
A memory I'll always have is when I was in high school I was living with a boyfriend because I had nowhere else to go, and of course I felt he was my family back then. A girl in school was picked on a lot and I always stood up for her. We hung out more and I thought we were friends. She knew my situation, etc... and she slept with my boyfriend. This lead to our breakup and my homelessness. She started spreading rumors I deserved all the pain I was receiving because I was a "whore." (I was literally a virgin). I was so heartbroken because of what my boyfriend did, but I was equally angry and heartbroken someone I wanted to build up and cared for was willing to break me down in return. Yet, I was told by multiple people I didn't have a right to be mad at a person who knowingly did something to hurt me without remorse. Sorry, but I had every right to be upset over someone making an active choice to hurt me. It's comforting that Tara acknowledged the right to be angry at someone sleeping with your boyfriend. Feminism isn't an excuse to get away with hurting other women or people. That's literally the opposite of feminism and it drives me crazy.
Just want to say that I’m so, so sorry for what you’ve been through. Betrayals like these are the worst. Especially when you thought these people had your back. Things involving men and insecure or geeky girls always end badly, I know from experience 😅
I was in a similar situation. Well two similar ones actually. My first bf cheated on me with a girl I helped. She picked him and wanted him at all cost. The thing is he never dated her, just used her as a backup plan, so she blamed me for that...I dumped the guy and it was still my fault for everything. How? Then again , my fiances best friend's wife wanted to break us up and make him date her sister. Again she spread rumours I was a whore. I had thr chance to sleep with married men and I didn't do it, out of respect for the girl. It takes two to cheat and if you know he is taken, you are absolutely at fault
I’m so sorry this happened to you 🩷 growing up I was bullied by a group of girls and the girls in my friend group (who wanted to fit in) because I was super shy for years. IMO It’s okay to be wary of other women despite what others say. At least for me I always will me. I would never go out with a taken man. Married or dating. I literally don’t care. But some of these women have no problem with it. But the right person will come to you and who won’t hurt you.
Yeah I think by being a girls girl we’re still allowed to call other girls out for the behavior as long as it’s in a non-misogynistic way. Like if she’s cheating on her boyfriend, I think it’s 100% okay to call her out on it as long as you’re not calling her misogynistic terms.
I always thought the "don't be mad at the other women" thing was because the man often doesn't tell the woman that he's married, at least until she's in love.
I think it was easier to believe/hope that before social media. I know my coworkers are married because they wear their rings, talk about their partners, and have social media. It's more believable that someone might not know if it's not a marriage or if they work in a field where they don't wear their rings. But of the real life people I've known who have cheated, it was never a situation where the other man/woman didn't know, it was usually something like they were following their hearts or that they just didn't like the other person's partner. So I could be biased towards giving someone no slack.
@@cynthiaxwangcomedy I don't really follow her, or celebrity news in general, so I didn't know that. That is SUPER messed up. I'm glad I never got into her music now.
@@Puuws This. I dont really get it unless the girl was your friend. It gives me the vibes of "well he wouldnt have cheated if he didnt have who to cheat with", instead of if he wants to cheat and is cheating you have other problems in the relationship and its better you find out sooner rather than later.
I had a female friend whom I was friends with for eleven years. We went to school together, later went to the same university, even lived together for a number of years. She'd honestly been one of my closest friends, and I always saw her as someone with a great empathy and common sense. Then she started trash-talking our mutual friends behind their backs, started being generally catty and mean, putting other women around her down, and eventually started seeking out men in relationships to have "affairs" with. She would boast about it to me, seemingly genuinely expecting me to say something like "Hell yeah, girlie, go get it, you slay, queen". When that wasn't my immediate reaction, she got kind of defensive and said it was all an important part of her "second puberty" and her journey to bigger self-esteem. She also told me that she really thought I would be more supportive about it. Meanwhile, I was in a moral crisis - on the one hand, I heard from left and right how you shouldn't blame the other women, only the guy, and it's precisely the same argument she used as well. On the other hand, it felt so callous and alibistic to me. Eventually I told her that her stories of "snatching" someone else's partner just made me feel sad for that guy's girlfriend and that I think she is not absolved of responsibility just because the guy decided to cheat, because, well, she knew he would be cheating. I also told her that I loved her, that I still think she's a great person and that I just simply cannot pretend to be supportive over this one thing, because I'm imagining how those men's partners must be feeling. I thought I was quite sensitive and respectful in my delivery, but apparently I irreparably broke the girl code, because the very next day she announced that she's moving out and that she doesn't require any help with packing her things. She did move out and then completely ghosted me on social media. After eleven years of talking every day, I never saw or spoke to her again... because I didn't excitedly support her on her cheating journey. Back then, I was super heartbroken about it, but I also learned a lesson about the negative side of the girl code, and how it can be used to defend shitty behaviour. Your video was spot on, it really encapsules both the good and the bad of the girl's girl culture. I appreciate you, Tara. ♥
It must have been very difficult to abruptly lose a friend like, and I am sorry you had that experience. In my experience, if you are friends with or dating someone and you observe them being cruel / shitty to some third person, it will only be a matter of time before that behavior is directed towards you. I don't mean to sound callous, but she may have been doing you a favor. Either way, wheter or not she acknowledged it, it was very kind of you to try to protect her feelings when you absolutely did not need to. I hope you are now surrounded by people who fully appreciate you.
You’re not alone this reminds me of my ex-friend loll. Close friends for like 5 years (highschool). After she and her first kind-of-boyfriend split, she started doing a lot of hookups. I see no problem with that. Go ham. However her whole personality just took a sudden 180. She was always bitter and mean when we’d hang out and would call everything my friends and I wanted to do/enjoyed lame/stupid. She just wanted to sit in our dorm for hours and complain about people from highschool (who we hadn’t seen in at least a year) or only talk about her hookups. She was a repeat homewrecker, by the way. One day she started shit talking a shared friend for no reason at all. They hadn’t even to each other spoken in months!! I decided I was done with her and never had a conservation with her after that. I only learned recently she would talk about me and other friend behind our backs because she was angry we were in relationships and she wasn’t. I don’t like bringing relationships into my friendships. I think friendships should focus on our mutual enjoyment of each other. But I guess she just didn’t want that. I’m still not happy about it; feels bad we couldn’t just talk. But she was never one to really communicate. 🤷♀️
@@seame3795 it’s really gross to say this about someone. Like, you’re probably not wrong in the sense that everyone could benefit from some kind of mental health care, but the fact that you’re on your “seek therapy” bullshit is really aggressively annoying and dismissive of people. Of course even women would treat other women like that.
@@justinwatson1510 Thank you for the kind message. ♥ And you are right, she was actually doing it to me as well. I am not sure about the trash-talking behind my back, but she would put me down, laugh at my taste in music, clothes, my autistic traits etc., and generally made me feel like a pitiful outsider. I honestly can't believe how meek and submissive I was back then. Sure, whenever she said something like "Mutual friend XYZ has a super annoying laugh" I would counter with "I actually love their laugh, it makes me feel happy, too", but I still operated within "she's a good person and this is just a temporary mood" parameters instead of realizing that she has changed. In a way, I am very grateful for this whole experience, even though it was hard at the time. Without it, I wouldn't learn to see red flags in people and speak up firmly, and I wouldn't be able to sorround myself with the kind, loving, honest friends that I am lucky to have now.
being a girls' girl should not mean supporting your friends through their bullshit. in the satc example you used (LOVE that clip), by that metric, charlotte would be considered NOT a girls' girl by calling out carrie's bad behavior--even though she clearly is advocating for the wife in this instance and admonishing carrie to consider her feelings. for me, a big thing is not abandoning or de-prioritizing your friendships when you get in a relationship. of course new love is exciting and you may want to spend all your time with your partner, but it feels really shitty when a friendly clearly cares more about her romantic relationships than her platonic ones.
I’ve been a culprit of this in the past (only once when my husband and I started dating, and honestly it was mostly my male best friends who I stopped hanging around) and I wish so badly I could go back and get that time back with my friends, ofc I’m thankful for that time with my husband but I feel guilt and like I missed out genuinely. I love those people and we’re still close but I hate feeling like I missed a part of their life. We were 18 too so it feels like such an important time for friends.
I learned firsthand what a girl's girl is when my ex was messaging his ex gf behind my back while we were together, begging for her back. She told him to f off sent me all the screenshots. On the other hand, I learned what a girl's girl IS NOT when that same guy was cheating on me, and a girl I thought was my friend knew about it but chose not to tell me. To this day, I have a ton of respect for that ex gf, but no respect at all for my fake "friend" who chose to keep my cheating ex bf's secret.
Last time I confronted my friend about her man's cheating she cut me off saying I was "trying to ruin their relationship." Funny thing is, he's also a sexual abuser and when I told her this too she said "he's not" even though girls in our same circle have been pursued by him relentlessly
@@katgreer6113 Reminds me of the time my friend blocked me off because I told her, her bf is abusive. And voila, he has successfully isolated her from everyone, made her hate her family and now I have no idea what her future life will be like.
I definitley feel like theres a big difference from a partner deciving someone into thinking theyre single to cheat on you vs someone knowingly persuing someone who's taken and I'm glad you pointed that out.
Yep! Also, situations where the partner coerces someone else into sleeping with them by taking advantage of power dynamics (ie a boss sleeping with a subordinate like Bill Clinton, or an older guy/man taking advantage of a much younger woman/girl)
@lexa2310 Thing is a friendship is a type of relationship like any other. For some people they are even more important than romantic relationships. Having a friend cheat with your partner is also a betrayal of that friendship just as much as it’s a betrayal of the romantic relationship from your partner’s side of things. It’s not that your supposed friend could make your partner cheat at all. It’s the betrayal of trust on both people.
I really dislike the propensity some of these girls have to make bold blanket statements. Like, “it’s a red flag if she doesn’t have a lot of girl friends.” This only perpetuates more “mean girl” attitudes, which is suppose to be the opposite of girls girl lifting each other up! Like you showed in the video, it’s so easy for a definition to start to spiral out of control.
I usually say it's a red flag if she doesn't get along with other women. It doesn't matter if you have one good friendship with a girl or fifty, but if you don't get along with *all* girls? That's where it gets murky.
@@gabriellemeche992 Fuck you. You’re the reason for that. You’re deciding arbitrary ass red flags as though there are not women who are uncomfortable around other women do to trauma or unluck or personality differences- you literally decide that women are flawed if they do not perform alliance with women in a way that YOU decide is sufficient. “Feminists”; “women are only acceptable if they live and act and behave how I say they should”.
@gabriellemeche992 I kind of disagree on that. I have a small number of friends who are women. I try my very best to get along with other women, but when other women automatically don't like you all because of your looks, it's hard to get along. They give the side eye, ignore you, or just give off vibes that they don't like you. It's not a red flag at all to have few women friends.
@@sweetnerdygirl90I think that’s what she’s saying, that if someone only has a couple female friends that’s not a red flag, but if they have none then it is. I agree about the looks thing though. I’ve seen friends who are especially conventionally attractive get treated badly by other women who otherwise were really nice to the rest of our friends. I think it comes from the same toxic sense of competition and internalized misogyny as the women who aren’t friendly towards other women at all.
It's not ok to mess around with someone who is in a relationship. Period. I seriously side-eye anyone who lays all the blame on either party in a cheating situation. If you know, it's wrong. You're both responsible. Don't purposely hurt other people for funsies.
Fair, but I do still think there's a tendency to put more of the blame on the other person than is necessarily fair. Is it wrong to help someone break a promise in a way that you know will really hurt someone? Absolutely. Is it as wrong or worse than being the person who actually broke the promise? Not unless the person being cheated on trusted you as much as they trusted their partner. That bit in the SatC clip really frustrated me: like, sure, be furious with the hypothetical lady who helped your friend's husband break her heart, but why aren't we at least as mad with the hypothetical version of Charlotte's fiance?
They're not always both responsible and the tendency is to pin the blame on the women, who may have not known. That is rarely considered and it should change.
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicosI think anyone can wear pink! I think the best pinks match your skin's undertone so they don't clash with your natural blush tones
I think a "guys guy" is just "bro code" . I also think Girls girl could equally be labelled as "Girl code" seeing as it operates the same as Bro code. They are both just a set of gendered rules on behaviour to garner acceptance from those of the same gender.
There also is the concept of a Man's man, but it doesn't refer to any kind of code or standard. It's just a guy who likes hanging out with other guys and doing traditionally masculine things.
A "man's man" and a "woman's man" are pretty established ideas, there are different definitions but I think a Man's Man is the kind of guy that even people the same age can look to as a role model and respect, and generally cares about the men around him. It's a bit deeper than following the bro code because it involves more than just relationships. A Woman's Man / Ladies' Man is someone that is especially respected by the women around him (not necessarily desired though), and puts in extra effort for women. These men are easily identified by comparing them to other men and they're also not mutually exclusive.
I think there’s also an underlying aspect to “girl’s girl” that doesn’t exist with the bro code thing because, to me, “girl’s girl” almost fundamentally comes from a place of oppression. It’s about not tearing other women down in a society that for a long time has pushed women down. It’s saying hey we’re all in the same boat here so let’s help each other and stick together no matter what. It gets misused for sure but I think that’s where the whole thing stems from. (As a side note, when I say the same boat I’m talking about being women. That doesn’t apply to the intersectionality part of the convo- obvs not all women are in the exact same boat)
I feel like that might be over simplifying things. It’s not just about garnering acceptance, but building an idea for how women should treat other women. Most women want female friendships, and want to be supportive towards other women in general, but where our culture has conditioned us to think of other women as catty, petty, and vindictive, it can be hard for some women to be respectful towards other women. The problem is that those same toxic ideas about women get mixed in and it becomes hard to tell what’s helpful and what’s hurtful
Insecure men benefit from playing women off against each other, so they can feel themselves valuable, a catch that needs to be fought for and pampered up all the time. I was with some guys, that tried to make me jealous by flirting with other women, when I didn't get upset they got confused, then I told them it's up to them whether they choose to flirt with other women or not, they have agency, they are not inanimate objects that needs to be fought for. Men who objectify women tend to objectify themselves too.
Awesome points! Also that last one is so relevant; that those who don't treat and even see others as actual people, don't see themselves as real people either. But equally as performing 'human doings', as their images, with no one authentic truly in there. Probably got objectified from the start and now do it to themselves and everything around them.
That's very interesting. My mother's new man is acting up in such a way and when I first met him, I could tell he was a bit insecure. He's an overall good guy but he's using other women to make my mom jealous. My mother is older than him, yet looks much younger, is extremely beautiful, educated and comes from a good family. It's unfortunate because he'll end up alone with no woman or the worst of woman if he doesn't realize the blessings that came his way. His insecurity is ruining his blessings.
A guy in high school would alwyas hit on me and I’d always turn him down because I simply wasn’t interested. He’d been asking me out consistently since elementary school, and when I said no for the millionth time he tried to ask out my friend who also said no. He actively tried to make me jealous and when it didn’t work he got all huffy. I actually met him again in college (he did NOT ask me out when we met btw and hasn’t since) he’s much more mellow now and apologized for being a dick in high school, but sometimes I think about him and how some men just can’t take no for an answer.
I was with a guy who ended up being married (my dad looked up his “ex” wife and point blank asked her if they were still married😳) I cut ties and blocked his ass asap (the guy, not my dad). And this guy had the gall to email me twice over the following six months, like bro, my dad is a narc and I obviously tell my dad everything. Why would you still be talking to me? But I do love that my dad is the “girl’s girl” in this situation ❤
I had a crush on a guy a couple of years ago. His most attractive quality was how utterly, utterly devoted he was to his girlfriend. I dreamed about making out with him once (on a roller coaster. In a theme park I co-owned with a friend and Obama.) and even in that dream, my subconcious made me check with him whether he had definitely and for realsies broken up with his girlfriend before doing that. Knowingly and willingly interfering with someone's committed relationship is just that unethical for me, apparently. Thanks for guilt tripping me in my goddamn dreams, brain. That was fun.
when you said you dreamed about making out with him on a rollercoaster in a theme park owned by you and obama i thought that meant it was something you were actually yearning for, not something that happened in an actual dream. i was so confused😭😭😭😭
One time I dreamed I cheated on my boyfriend and even during the dream I was feeling awful. And then when I woke up I had a 30 min breakdown lmao Brain does things like this
I once dreamed I went on a date with a UA-camr who is married irl. In the dream I asked him if it was okay we went on a date only a few months after he and his wife had divorced. I feel like even in a dream I had to say outloud and clearly state that I wasn't making him cheat on his wife.
I’ve never understood the whole ‘possessive/aggressive stay away from my man’ thing. Another woman might put out the bait but my partner is the one who chose to take it. The woman is of bad character but the man is the one I’ll be removing from my life. I suppose if the woman was also in my life she would be cut out of my life too. Where I’d feel angry or frustrated would be when mutual friends continued relationships with these two people who have, to my mind, proved their undesirableness as a person.
As a gay man, i thought it would be okay to have an affair with a married 'straight' guy. Anyway, it wasn't. I broke it off quickly bc i felt terrible about it and i never did anything like it again. I definitely feel it's wrong if you know the person is in a monogamous relationship.
@@Sofia-wh9jr at the time I thought it was okay because he was closeted. I basically thought it was okay because he was a victim of his times. He was a bit older than I as well.
@@LOSTnerd815This is a mentality I've seen a lot and it's frankly disgusting. Someone being a victim of a difficult situation doesn't change the fact that you were participating in ruining an innocent woman's marriage and life. How do people have no regard for how their actions impact others?
I've never been cheated on (lol, that I know of, but I don't think I pick partners that are particularly prone to it), but I think it makes more sense to direct the anger towards the partner, because it doesn't really matter who the other person is - SOME person would have come along at a time or other willing to do stuff with them. Now cheating with a friend of one's partner is vile, both from partner and friend.
Ive been cheated on once and I agree with you. I always saw it as thanks for letting me know what im dealing with sooner rather than later. If Im relying on strangers not being willing to have sex so that my partner doesnt cheat then whats the point of the relationship anyway. Obviously its a different thing if its your friend, but strangers? nah.
The women who pushed the "be a girls girl!" on me the hardest in friendships were always the first to throw me under the bus or hurt me when it was convenient to them, and sometimes even ended up aligning with hurtful and abusive men instead and completely jumping ship. So i dont trust all that talk anymore especially those who act like some authority online about the "girls girl rules". Equality means i apply the same level of accountability to all my friends regardless of gender. When i followed the "never be mad at a girl always try to find a man at the root of the problem" formula, my trust would be broken and it's really hard to understand or come back from that especially when you're ND and dont always understand secret social cues 100% to begin with. Youre allowed to be mad when another woman knowingly pursues your husband without being labeled some weird traitor to your gender. 😑
FRRRRR the ones talking about not unfollowing ppl u met once??? It felt like they were salty someone unfollowed them idk it just seemed so petty to be like well ur not for the girls if u don’t follow this person for the rest of ur life
@panmoncada7257 Yeah, that was definitely the dumbest take. Like is being social media "friends" with someone you never talk to really THAT important?? As if unfollowing someone who barely knows you is a huge betrayal. Girl, they probably didn't even notice and never will. Lol
Good point about how people who demand loyalty to any ideal or social grouping are probably not that interested in following the same rules. Like anything else, it becomes a tool to exert power over others.
This is so true. I've had experiences not trusting other girls, so people had assumed I wasn't a "girls girl," when in reality my negative experiences with other girls (especially white girls) completely changed my perspective on friendships with them. People can't just apply the same "girls girl" code to every situation because life is too nuanced for that.
In my 20s I was the woman who ignored other women and only talked to the men, but this was due to trauma. I was undiagnosed autistic at the time and had been horribly bullied throughout school by girls, whereas the boys had mostly just ignored me. So other women honestly terrified me so much that I turned non-verbal in their presence, even if I admired them and would have loved to be friends! It took a couple of amazing and persistent women who coaxed me out of my shell, along with an autism diagnosis and years of gaining self-knowledge, to teach me that most women aren't the girls who tormented me.
Sadly this is where I’m still at. I just don’t know how to talk to other women (not because I don’t want to or because I don’t like them) but because I just wasn’t socialized to have too many girl friends. The girl friends I did have at some point turned on me without explaining to me what I did wrong to deserve such a change. They would literally make fun of me for the crimes of being “fat” “ugly” and “weird.” Learning that I’m most likely undiagnosed autistic makes my early childhood and teen years make so much more sense, sadly. :(
@@loverrlee I'm sorry that happened to you as well. The women I'm friends with now I mostly met online, and they're all neurodiverse in some way. Facebook turned out to be my lifeline, as it helped me find my people.
A girl was once pursuing my husband hard…I mostly just felt bad for her bc her fb messages were kinda sad and it seemed like she was NOT in a good place. She was trying to get back with him and begging for money when they hadn’t talked since they were like 15-16 and idk…it seemed like she needed money and just thought she had to behave that way to get it when Ik my husband, she could’ve just said she was really hurting and he would’ve helped her. The unsolicited nude photos were unnecessary 😬
Mr Ella looks just like my boy who sadly passed away about 10 years ago and the moment he turned up on the screen I started crying uncontrollably. I've been really missing him these past few weeks and seeing a kitty who looked so much like him being alive and loved just hit me hard. Mr Ella is adorable and I am so glad that he has a loving home, wishing you three all the best
I broke up with a small friend group because I found out two of the women were sleeping with men they knew were married and everyone was complacent with it and blamed the wives of the men. These were people in their 40s who were all divorced. One had been approached by a PI explaining what was going on and she continued to see the guy. It was very weird.
Ive been the other woman. Its one of my biggest regrets in life. At the time I had a serious drinking problem and a lot of unaddressed mental health issues. I ended up coming clean to the wife eventually and she left him. She has to emotionally live with the consequences of my selfishness. I agree so much with everything that was said here. I doubt I will ever let myself off the hook. What I did was beyond wrong. If youre out there doing that, please stop. You are hurting other people, and honestly youre hurting yourself too. You arent entitled to someone elses husband.
I don't completely disagree, but you are being too harsh on yourself, she is living mostly with her partner's decision to be an unfaithful asshole, he was the one who made a commitment, not you. So yeah, I'm glad you're in a better place and being the other person is always shitty to yourself and to the people being cheated on, but was still the committed person responsibility, I would say 9/1, and that 1 only applies if you knew.
As someone who has made the other choice of not being the other woman with someone I loved and deeply regretted it. Live your life, it is not your responsibility to guard other people’s relationship and believe me they will not do it for you. The whole concept of being for women or for men is idiotic. You care for the people you care for regardless of gender and you absolutely do not have any moral obligation towards all women because you have a vagina.
@@meredits388 all organisms are programmed to primarily seek what fulfils their self interests. As a recovering people pleaser nothing gives me greater pleasure than to be selfish.
This seams like a straight girl problem except I remember despite being queer getting that same weird ignoring/speaking over/bullying as if I was a threat to their hunting grounds or whatever. Like girl do you not see my undercut?? I don't care about your boyfriend.
Bringing women down is still a part of it, I have had mates who have been called everything under the sun off other women whether they were gay or just looked like they could be, some people are just horrid
Yeah I'm amab and queer and when I was in highschool I was be very perplexed whenever girls wouldn't pick up on that, and treat me like some kind of interloper. Idk I'm coming around to realizing it's due to me being autistic (they perceived me as creepy, even when the girl I was talking to was like no he's literally not bothering me) it was very bizarre and off putting. Like being perceived as a creep for being neurodivergent when you're already visibly femme as a man is so weird, like pick a lane to judge me society, please. 😅 Of course in school we're very much trapped in narrow ways of thinking about things like gender so I'm not too resentful but it does suck that I was ultimately having my self reduced to assumptions based on my innate characteristics.
@@jessica5470 right Jessica like most women may delight in bringing other women down. honestly all these terms are originally made to spite women by other D women . Like I remember vividly a woman saying I'm pointing out that feminist hate women and don't necessarily like them like the term girls girl may not necessarily be assumed by them to empower other ladies but to spite. As the inherent nature of most women is quite catty some women are even downright abhorrent to other ladies these women are just clowns that honestly intend to hurt other women
But if you're masc you might get along "like one of the guys!" That might take attention off how cool-bro-chill she is! Only one girl can be the One, she must behead her opponents before they do the same to her.
i have no idea what any of this means despite being raised a "girl" because, as an autistic person, i was always excluded from participating in girlhood. i was too weird for any of the other girls to tolerate long enough to actually want to be my friend and the boys were always extremely annoying. so this is all very fascinating to me!! i understand the basic requirements needed to be a "girl's girl" (be kind, be loyal, etc.) but some i just never will understand (requiring social media follows as an affirmation of friendship, limiting interaction with a friend's partner, etc.). thank you for posting as always.
LOL, I have to wonder whether THIS is why this is the first I'm hearing of this "girl's girl" discourse. Either that or I'm just old and it wasn't the term used in the 90s? My 1-3-at-a-time core friends HAVE usually been women, but they're the ones who tolerate my weirdness and lack of comprehension of "normal 'girl talk'". I will admit there were two times a bit later in my life where I kept flirting with a guy for a considerable time after a girl did the unspoken "back off this is my man" thing...because it puzzled me that he didn't confirm it. Surely if they were ACTUALLY in a relationship, he'd be like "Oh, and this is my girlfriend!" or look a bit guilty, right? Apparently that was very naive of me. In my defense, I HAD seen people (male and female) try to stake claims over people they weren't actually dating.
@@PirateQueen1720 Oh boy!! 😭😂 Perhaps you're like me or just a bit older (I was born in 96 : ) )! My friend group now is also relatively small, but they're also "weird". Also no, that doesn't sound like you were naive - people are just confusing 😭! I really don't get why some things remain unspoken. Relationships are something that should be announced!
I was out dancing with my husband a few months ago, when a friend of his that hasn’t seen him in like 15+ years spots him and they chat while I’m still dancing and he introduces me to her as his wife and she was so rude to me and was trying to one up me because she has a very well-paying job and looking down upon everything I said. It was so odd because we were just having fun dancing, I was super nice and thought it was cute to meet a friend from his childhood. Later that night, she brought her friend over to like pile on the girl hate and I get it, I have a shaved head and I’m alternative or whatever. I knew what she was doing when she brought a random friend over that neither of us knew and I was still polite..I just felt bad for both of them because I’m just a random person that they might never see again and they tried to hurt my feelings because she knew my husband 17 years ago lol
I've had former female friends telling me I'm not feminine enough, that my chest was too small, and when my hair was short they called me a boy. Just to bring me down. (they basically acted like i gave up womanhood or whatever) And there was this girl in my town who, when any girl talked to a guy, she would get in between and try to join the conversation and pretend to know what they were talking about. It took years for the guys (and some of the other girls) to realize that that girl was just starting drama. Suddenly friendships with some guys ended, rumors were spread, it was sad honestly. Or another girl kept trying to make me feel bad for studying English and how that had no future but her as an aspiring lawyer had the best chances. She kept trying to compare herself to me, tell me I looked tired or bad, and kept repeating how 'easy' English and German was compared to her studies. It was always out of the blue and just rude. I've also known female classmates who would only tell me stuff they didn't like about me like '' Oh well your hair is so dry and brittle :/ But mine is so soft and shiny'' and it was just weird. I think it's super awkward to try to impress a guy by bullying other girls. Women fight so much already and I am so tired of women thinking their female friends are jealous of them or want the worst for them and therefore become just as bad. They talk about how surely the single girls are jelaous of their marriage and whatnot, talking about what a nightmare it is to turn 30 and not have children yet, and then push those ideals on other women too.
Honestly I find such devaluing behaviour disturbing, always did. I get it now logically (elevate yourself by bringing others down) but not emotionally. Seems like you and I might have been raised with values like respect and kindness. And then you go into the world and find so little of it. ..By the way these mothers will have their complaints about their live choices on repeat to anyone who'll listen. And shame anyone who makes different choices. People are mostly ridiculous. 🙄
I knew two girls like that and one was so convinced I was trying to steal her crush but I repeatedly told her I jsut broke up with my toxic bf at the time I had no interest in dating just making friends and even compromised saying I would stop hanging out with her with the guy she liked lol. She tried to still set me up tho but I wasn’t interested and then she basically ignored me afterwards. The guy she tried to get with already had a gf and in turn ended up seeking me out to be friends bc he realized what she was doing (we became friends prior) she blocked me soon afterwards and I come to find out she attempted to sabotage me too smh. The other girl wasn’t as bad but I’m jsut like why are people that insecure smh
Carrie really sucked for that and Charlotte was right to call her out. Knowingly having a sexual relationship with a person in a monogamous relationship, even if you yourself are single, is still grotesque behavior. "I'm not the one in a relationship, so I'm not doing anything wrong." No, stop, you're gross. Is the cheater MORE at fault? Of course. But imo you're still trash for aiding and abetting that cheating. Be the bigger person and tell them to get lost.
so long as it's easy for people who realise they're not mono to get out of their relationships ! and i have no problem helping people realise they need to get out of their situations . and if that involves some romance that's okay . people should not force themselves to be unhappy .
@@iidoyilaif you’re purposely breaking people up and getting into relationships with people who are already in monogamous relationships, you are trash. If you’re merely leaving informative pamphlets about polyamory lying around to try to make people realize that’s what they want, then that’s not as bad. Cheating with someone is not “making them realize they’re not mono” it’s just participating in them abusing their spouse.
If you told me 5 years ago that Ariana Grande was f**king SpongeBob, I’d think you’re joking. Also, I’d be scared that someone I don’t know has entered my room.
In terms of Man's Man which is a term I grew up with it didn't really mean the same thing. It was more a guy who's habits, hobbies and lifestyle were aligned to things perceived to be male. Cars, guns, wood work and similar "manly" crafts.
mhmm it's not a term that carries with it any expectation of how one should treat their fellow men. whereas with women it holds them to some kind of moral standard.
i have heard "guys' guy" be used in a somewhat closer way to "girls' girl," but anecdotally i feel like you mostly hear it from women describing their male partners. like a "guys' guy" is your boyfriend who plans a standing weekly poker night with his buddies or whatever; somebody who prioritizes social connection with his male friends in contrast to many straight men who put all their social/emotional needs onto their partners. still feels more morally neutral than "girls' girl," but i think it's a little more similar.
This is what I was thinking too, I had assumed that a girl's girl would be the analog to this. And to me, all of these terms revolve around how men perceive or react to things. I thought the initial definitions were alright, but as it went on it became more and more about interpreting women's behavior through the lens of competition in a way that seems socially justified. It weaponizes the problematic Girl Boss mentality to paint any woman who doesn't "put women first" in every scenario as a pick me. I'm also pretty irritated at this trend of creating girl terms like this. Guys, can we agree that the term boy applied to men is condescending? A boys' club is not a good thing, for example, there's an implied immaturity to it. The word guy can sub in as a less negatively coded version of that. It doesn't have a great flow to it, but if the term had been something like 'a chick's chick' it wouldn't seem quite so childish. I'm AFAB but nonbinary so I guess it's not really my fight, but I want to push for a third term for when woman doesn't feel casual enough or is too loaded. I don't think it's a great idea to keep lumping women and children together like this.
I resent Ariana the most for the way she treated Jordin Sparks and Jeannette McCurdy. She`s the daughter of billionaires who bankrolled her fame. She riding off the success of the Jordin and Jeannette who had to work for theirs. She's always been awful, but now it's all resurfacing.
@@draalttom844that’s not true depending on what rich means to you. If you’re talking people making over 200k than you absolutely can do that ethically. Medical practitioners run in my family, and it’s very doable
Personally I do think that being a girls'girl is exactly like being a people's person, just not necessarily to everyone (?) Because how I see it, it all boils down to just being a sympathetic person. And something about the phrase girls' girl just gives me an ick because it's like choosing who deserves our sympathy more Also I truly belive that we put too much emphasis on people's gender, when in reality each person is so unique that the whole "girls girl" doesn't work and just seems very immature. Just be nice and considerate. Like in general.
dude when my ex cheated on me and had some no-so-discreet overlap with this girlie who was super popular with the guys in town, i tried to do the "feminist" thing and just befriend her. i took her word that she had no idea we were together when it was happening, and just generally sought her approval because she was so cool and fun to be around and a good artist etc. later i found out that she had indeed known about the overlap, had talked to a mutual friend about it, and that this wasn't her first time being the "other woman". it absolutely guttered my already trashed mental health and it took me a long time to recover. i think the moral of the story is that, yes, the guy in the situation is primarily to blame, but don't trip over yourself trying to excuse the actions of the other person involved because they're not entirely blameless. i really wanted to be cool about the whole thing and it hurt me even more than just being cheated on would have.
There's a lot of this girls girl thing that's true and a valid way of measuring women and there's a lot of girlies who just need to touch some grass. Holding each other to very high standards is not very feminist either.
I realized after breaking the cycle of being in abusive relationships (now in a safe happy marriage) that I’m not a jealous person. When I see other femme presenting people, I only feel joy towards them. I enjoy seeing women having fun and being themselves. The only time that I was jealous was when I was dating men who made me hate myself, boiled me down to body parts (making me feel less than for having a smaller chest or my post-baby body) and was constantly pitting me against other women..then I was the crazy ex The “I got your man” mindset is internalized misogyny. The girl getting with a cheater is not only hurting herself, but also hurting the other party especially if children are involved. I could never imagine placing that amount of pain on someone let alone an entire family
For me, being a girl’s girl means that I’m not going to entertain a guy’s interest if he’s in a relationship. If I can steal your man, that means your man’s not loyal and what would I want with a man who’s not loyal? It makes me think of being in high school, when we were constantly being bombarded with media telling us that we as girls are supposed to be competing for the man’s attention. As I grew up I realized that there will always be men desperate for women’s attention, and I don’t need to compete for it. I felt really stupid about being “not like other girls” as a teenager. I felt like I had been manipulated and taken advantage of. So now it’s like, girl, men will f-ck a rancid coconut. There will always be a man who wants to f-ck you, you don’t need to go messing around in other people’s relationships. I think there is a specific kind of woman who likes to insert herself into established relationships like they can have the same level of intimacy and support without putting in the emotional labor. And at that point it’s like, ok men need to reach a point where they know better than to fall for that and that’s on him.
lmfao this dude who i knew had a girlfriend got so pissed at me for rejecting his advances like i’m not gonna bend my own feelings backwards just to steal a man who’s easily swayed into different flavors just when he feels like it
Too many girls switch up when a man is around...I say too many because I have proof... today I just watched a short... basically a girl asks if two are a couple the other girl replied "haha we are just friends" then the first girl who asked the question asked for his number and suddenly the other girl is mad....I was like what happened to honesty if you like him just say it... but the girls in the comments thought that message was valid or "relatable"... that is how I knew girls girl is bs ....
9:12 totally agree. I can unfortunately speak from experience. When I was a 'not like other girls' girl as a teenager I was the other woman in one relationship. I justified it by my dislike for the guys girlfriend and that he said he was going to break up with her. No surprise it ended poorly within the same week. Fast forward a couple years and some personal growth and I ran into her and took the opportunity to apologize. She still was never someone I particularly liked, but she deserved the same respect I would give anyone else.
I am a pansexual woman. I had a girlfriend and we were in a loving relationship. Suddenly she stopped talking to me and kept having excuses to not hang out with me. Finally she broke up with me and wished for us to stay friends. I agreed. Even if I no longer could love her romantically she was still a great person, we also had some mutual friends so we didn't want things to get awkward between us. I knew that sooner or later one of us is going to find a new partner and I was okay with it. We both deserved it. And honestly I would be there for her no matter what. I was thinking about myself as a girl's girl. But what I find out was that she cheated on me and left me for another guy. Our relationship was very honest yet she didn't tell me about him. What was even worse she told our mutual friends the whole story without informing me. I felt so disrespect and humiliated I just wanted to punch her in the face. I don't know how she could do that to me. And I don't know how anybody can do something like that to someone else.
As a ✨girls girl✨, I recently realized I was slightly toxic because I would get super annoyed when my friends get in relationships with men. I had the attitude of like “oh I don’t care about your boyfriend, I just wanna be YOUR friend” and they have their boyfriends with them like 24/7. I realize this might be slightly an unrealistic expectation because prioritizing romantic relationships is just what people do as they get older. I should try harder to hang out with my friends and their boyfriends cause I still like my friend overall and I shouldn’t let one person keep away from them lol.
omg this is me. i sometimes feel like i might be toxic if i just wanna hangout with just my friends alone and not with their partners/plus ones. unless my friend puts in the effort of me and their partner trying to bond as friends too then i would appreciate their extra effort too.@@TaraMooknee
It's good that you want to be a good friend, and granted, when a friend begins a relationship, you kind of have to expect that they may be attached to their partner at the hip for a while. However, there's several things to consider. If it's been some time, like around a year, and your friend is still bringing their partner to meet ups that they have explicitly been told to be a "girl's night out", then your friend is not being considerate of how you feel. Romantic relationships take precedence in this culture, but maintining platonic ones is just as important. I've had friendships of both varieties. In the unhealthy kind, my friends would cut time spent with friends short to hang with the partner. In the healthy ones, my friends would balance between bringing their partner along and not bringing their partner along. They also always ask ("would you be comfortable with so and so joining?") and are always ready to follow through if I say no. In both scenarios, I don't hate their partner, I just also want to be able to just hang out with just my friend sometimes and at other times, the more the merrier! In the former situation though, I am more likely to start resenting both my friend and their partner, vs in the latter, I feel more chill and happy to see them both, because they are considerate of me as well. It's a balance. You can't have too much of either, you know? The balance depends on you and your friends and your relationships with each other. You'll find your way. And starting with being self-aware like you are now is a great step forward.
It is good that you acknowledge the jealousy is not good and all and you want to take the initiative to hang out more. Though, try talking to your friend about having moments with just the two of you more often too, if that has pretty much died out and she _is_ taking her bf to everything. It's about balance and communication just as much as any relationship type. It's totally fair to initially feel slighted and annoyed when you get less attention from someone than before. It's also completely fair to not want to have the bf with you every time you go to see her.
"Girl's girl" feels like just another way to talk about problems in the context of feminism while not mentioning feminism and making women's empowerment seem as pink and fluffy as possible. Most women want to discuss this politics and the ethics of what it should mean to succeed in cooperative and fair ways that empower other women, but you won't hear anyone say, "She doesn't get to call herself an empowering feminist while sabotaging me, my relationship, and the stability it brings me and using sex appeal-related social climbing to get an undesearved edge . She's part of the patriarchy as far as I'm concerned." It's much easier to say "She's not on team girl's girl." This isn't politics, it's a self-help-like "girl code" that kinda sorta looks like it. I'm not advocating an approach to being a feminists' ally and a less toxic, sexist human -- This is just how me an all my COSMO girlfriends girl. It's good for people to talk about serious issues in non-threatening, non-academic ways, but, however much debate there is about what's wise behavior among women here, having these debates entirely with language dressed in a pink high-schooler's kitten heels feels like a politically cowardly and awkward game.
this is a interesting point, i have to agree. something about "girl's girl" doesn't sit right with me, because the term itself seems to be part of a particularly watered down brand of fangless online feminism. and women who criticize it often get hit back with the classic "no u", and accused of shaming the ~~traditionally feminine~~ demeanor. which to me just circles right back to sexism, because why are we calling dumbed down discourse "traditionally feminine"? it has its function, but it's infantilizing and past a certain degree it stops being helpful
@@r.r.4809 worse, it demands women behave according to standards established by those beyond themselves- standards that just so happen to conform to the expectations of cis heterosexual, wealthier/powerful white women and seek to, conveniently, establish or increase the amount of power possessed by them- often derived from patriarchal men- under the guise of fighting against oppression. It’s almost like all feminism short of the anarchist, queer, and transgender variety are the only kind focused on an authentic reckoning against patriarchy. The attempt to delineate good behavior from bad behavior as opposed to emphasizing the importance of cooperating with humans to create an environment as kind and safe as possible, ESPECIALLY by defining for women what we can be, who we are, and how we ought to live and think is always inherently patriarchal. Doing that for anyone is patriarchal because it always affects women- even matriarchies would oppress women and people by expecting behaviors out of them more than trying to keep people stable. The instant we prioritize social punishment is the moment we decide to damn everyone to torture.
@burnttoast111 but thanks for proving my point though - if we're not using sugarcoated, simplistic, silly little terms to express our thoughts on feminism, y'all assume it's a man speaking. you are the problem 😊
Just as a counterpoint to one small part of the video where you mention how, "You don't really hear about people not being 'guys guys' or a 'boys boys'", I think that might just be a perspective thing, because growing up with three brothers, being a 'bro' was a MAJOR deal often coming with a similar (though obviously much more misogynistic) set of 'dos and don'ts' which where strictly socially enforced. This 'bro code' (at least back when I was surrounded by kinda frat-y guys) had a similar, 'Don't cheat on other guys girls, don't put down your boys in front of girls, est' set of rules as the broad 'girls girl' code here, though with more of a explicit threat of violence for violation. (IE. If you betray or hurt your friends, you'll be in danger of being beaten.) Also, again, with a deeply sexist disregard of women as anything, but objects to be acquired, with cheating and betrayal in love being treated much more like an act of property theft rater then, well, hurting someone else. (Sort of a, 'This guy is bad and should be shunned, not because what he did was inherently hurtful and cruel, but because he is untrustworthy and will rob you.') Its a bad and toxic mentality that lionizes domineering and violent behaviors towards women and frames male friendships as less mutually beneficial relationships and more diplomatic pacts based around not doing the 'natural' thing that guys 'are inherently going to do otherwise'. But it IS a thing... That should not exist.
I think that's a reeeeeally frustrating part about this conversation bc some women will try to use "there's no boy version of it so we need to shut this 'girl's girl' down completely" when that's just not true. These convos can be very interesting on a social/sociology level, and ppl wanting to stop the conversation just because they think the other genders (in other cases, races&etc) don't have the same concept/conversation is so annoying. (Completely tangential but ppl who do that remind me of ppl who think that having a critical conversation means "you're no fun" or some shit).
@@justherewatching30 I feel like its an issue of people trying to have a 'big picture' conversation while failing (understandably) to grasp the full scope of said picture since... Well its really big! That isn't to say, "Well no one really knows what they are talking about so lets not do anything." But just to emphases the importance of remembering that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence on its own. Again though, NOT trying to argue with the point of the video or even really the section I was providing additional context to. Just I feel like its important to remember that we are all working with a limited perspective and even the BEST people talking about complex subjects should be treated as one part of a larger conversation. And natch, I'm bias and talking primarily from my own limited perspective as a trans woman who grew up in a large family of boys in the US North East so my first hand understanding only really extends to the place and time I was able to observe things. I am no more (and probably a fair bit less) learned then anyone else talking about this stuff. :P
@@justherewatching30 The reason it’s got to go is because it’s oppressive. It demands that women fall in line with certain expectations, expectations inherently formed by white women with more power than any of the marginalized women who are moved to have more individual skepticism towards women- such as women abused by other women, or women who just don’t feel comfortable around other women due to trauma or just being lucky enough to have more gender diverse friend groups or what have you. At its core, the conversation is worthless because it misunderstands patriarchy to a point that it pretends men and women are monoliths with different experiences, rather than subjects who are treated differently within society.
Met a girl at uni that was my best friend turned bully that also had this kink of getting with other girl’s bf’s (due to lack of self esteem). She thought that i wasnt a girl’s girl because i hung out with my bf (who treated me great) instead of her and she told me that when we break up she will be the one that i will want to cry to. The opposite happened. Later it turned out she was really jealous of me and me having a loving bf so that’s why she was so horrible to me. Don’t let the fake girl’s girls fuck up ur other friendships and relationships. It’s just narcissism in disguise.
My first real boyfriend cheated on me with his best girl friend for three months straight. She knew the whole time and just didn't care. After we broke up, she hooked up with the next guy I had started dating. Both of my ex's actions were awful, but there was no excuse for her actions either. I will never tell a woman she should only be angry at the man.
Also, if you're a woman who sleeps with a man you know is already in a monogamous relationship, that automatically makes you not a girls' girl as well, imo. So in the same way that someone can criticize pick-me behaviour and not have that mean they are "unduly criticizing women," if i criticize someone sleeping with a man they know is taken, I'm not unduly criticizing her because she's a woman. Criticizing her behaviour doesn't make me or anyone else "not a girls' girl", yk?
Yay! Welcome to Mr. Ella! My feline was also mistaken for female. Thankfully, I insisted on taking him to the emergency vet when he showed signs of a kidney infection (less urgent for females). It was there that the emergency vet corrected us, where other regular vets had not!
Imagine my disappointment to learn that "girls' girl" doesn't mean "woman who is trying to attract other women." Also, obvious point, but whether or not to "blame the other woman" is circumstantial. I was the "other woman" once, but I was a freshman in hs, and he was a senior who had basically preyed on me using my need for validation, and I wasn't exactly in a position to say "no" to someone who I saw as the only human being capable of loving me. Unsurprisingly, he turned out to have this same pattern in all his other relationships.
This exact thing happened to me except the other way round. When I was 16, I had a boyfriend who was 18 and cheated on me with a 14 year old. The poor girl told me herself, and I could tell right off the batt that she had been manipulated by my boyfriend, as he had significant influence over her as a "cool older guy". I couldn't bring myself to be mad at her at all. We actually became really good friends after that
@@nikfiendluvr666 damn that's the age I was when it went down! I don't think the other girl ever knew about me since she went to a school a few hours away and we never crossed paths. Idk if he even fessed up to her about anything he did. She ended up dumping his ass way later though so he probably made the same mistake and actually got caught lmao
@@nikfiendluvr666 Also it's really sweet that you two became friends! It's commendable that you were able to see that she was young and manipulated and not hold that against her. There are so many people who would have held her just as responsible in spite of the age difference because of how uncharitably people view women.
As a woman who has always been in larger male dominated spaces, it really sucks that most of the women I come across treat me as a threat than an ally. I'd be in a well established friend group well before they even met their partner, not doing anything but hanging out with these guys in that capacity, and yet new girlfriends would be so spiteful of me without exchanging a word. And they'd always have their friends to talk sh*t with. They'd never engage with me, ignore me completely, cut me off, and then complain/make fun of me afterwards. It's so common I get nervous now when a woman tries engaging me in those same group settings like "what? why? what does she want?" expecting a bucket of pig's blood to drop on my head any moment. I'd understand it if I was flirting or grabbing attention, but as I said a lot of the situations I'm just a part of the group, or on my own, but I get treated like an outsider by these women. The kicker was how many of those guy friends would then want ME to reach out and fix things that I never broke. Or fix her to be someone she's not ("make her like video games" commonly). These women have active disdain being in the same room as me, and they're imagining us bonding over... what now?
Meeting your male friend's GF is NERVE WRACKING like "She seems nice, the guys are pushing us to be friends because we're both girls, they're really cute together, oh god she's smiling at me is it a real smile or ???"
Yes!!! I've had so many women get really freaking weird or aggressive towards my presence around other men & it makes ZERO sense. I've been out in public at the playground with my kid, concerts, stores, just happen to stand NEAR a couple & watched the woman drag the guy off by the arm while shooting me the death glare. Like "okay, wtf is your problem? I'm just existing here." Or I walk away only to hear her spout off some rude, disparaging comment. I hated working as a waitress because women who came in with a guy were instantly rude or dismissive towards me. I'd hear the bf/ husbands ask "why are you acting like that?" so it was noticeable even to them. In my mind, I don't consider myself all that attractive, I dress modest, comfy & am a threat to absolutely no one. The way women act towards me makes it really hard to even make friends because of how they choose to act.
Tara: "I have an announcement!" Me: "Will we finally get to meet the cow?!" Tara: "I have a cat. And it's cow print." Me: * disappointed but also not disappointed *
personally i think girls girl is an amazing concept, and its meaning is still in conversation, so for some girls it will have different "rules" around it, but the core idea behind it is sisterhood and having each other's back, a thing that men have been doing all this time. so yeah, go out and be a girl's girl, and if you don't like some of the aspects it englobes we can always chat it up bc that's what is it about 💕
Mr. Ella! He's got very fitting print; it really is fate. Not that I was expecting otherwise, but I'm glad you looped around to being a "girls' girl" as an important thing. Especially when we're talking about broad strokes the solidarity is absolutely necessary.
I had a friend that used to always compete with me for a guy’s attention. Didn’t think much of it while we were in college, but as soon as she tried doing that when I was married I cut her off completely. Come to find she dated my brother in law and was disappointed when she realized he wasn’t as nice to her as my husband was to me. Major red flag
Me, a nonbinary lesbian: “oh I’m a girl’s girl alright” 😂 Wonderful video, but Mr. Ella stole the show a bit, I feel like the ending footage added like 5 years to my life 🥲♥️
Dear Tara, I really enjoyed your take. I’d like to add that I think the tendency to put labels and definitions to traits or characteristics that we see on TikTok (mostly aimed at self-identification) feel like a way to virtue signal but also to categorize people further and erase nuance. Why would anyone care about being a girl’s girl? Why can’t we be angry when we want to be angry without slashing someone’s tires? Why must there always be an extreme that people think we belong to? I feel like we can’t have a conversation on the internet anymore because there is so much lack of nuance. I can be angry at the other woman without having internalized misogyny and seeing the situation in a balanced way. I don’t understand why the internet advocates for a witch hunt all the time.
It’s interesting and tragic that so many women can still only claim any power in their associations with other women through weaponizing their gender based on the higher standards set for women/girls. This was true when being a pick-me was seen as favourable to other women and girls, since it meant that the picked woman/girl held more power than others via her association with the power holders - men - and so was more desirable to be associated with. But being picked also meant putting down different aspects of other women/girls in order to elevate the patriarchal standard of a “good woman/girl”. This gave women free range to bully other women if they slept with a romantic partner as per the standards of the patriarchal good woman, not just because it was hurtful and unethical. It’s exactly the same now that women/girls are being encouraged to support each other. There’s still set criteria for what makes a “good woman/girl” and the push to embody her. Only things that have changed are that the standard is presumably set by women and girls instead of men and boys and this new perspective of women as "gender traitors", when betraying your gender was literally the only grab women could make for power for ages. So instead of the plethora of arguments anyone could make against Ariana’s behaviour, such as the impact of her influence as a hugely popular celebrity on the public in relation to her immoral behaviour; or how that behaviour really makes no sense, given her many long-term positive relationships with other women; or even just that cheating is wrong and she’s probably a crappy person for knowingly doing it more than once, it’s: “here’s the standard of a good woman set by other women and girls, and she’s not meeting the criteria, so she's betrayed all other women and therefore can’t sit with us ”. This weaponizes her gender based on a certain standard and keeps that standard higher for women than men. Some things really never change for women
@embroideredragdoll5911 It's not the new wave of feminism - I think that's what you meant anyway - it's old misogyny repackaged as "girls supporting girls". But I totally agree that should stop supporting patriarchy. It''s just hard to do when patriarchy is constantly invading feminist spaces and ideals and twisting women's positivity toward each other back into negativity based on men's perceptions of what women should be
Speaking as someone who messed up an important relationship by being insecure, a lot of the folks in these clips seem like they're trying to blame their insecurities on other people. Worrying about who your partner is interacting with, or how much attention other people in your social circle are getting, can be shortcuts to making yourself miserable and poisoning your interactions with people you care about.
One of the things I've realised about the other woman thing is that its not just unethical to be the other woman, its almost always a garbage life choice for you. I used to be pals with a woman who was involved with a married man and it was all drama all the time and made her very unhappy. So, like, lose lose. (And also lose for me because I had to take care of her when he was being a raging prick, which was all the time.)
Honestly as bad as this is, I wish it would have been what I observed. Instead I've seen it the other way, and it's disturbing. Seen a milder case and a worse one, with all the blame and damage to the wife (very a much girl's girl) and kids, and everyone eventually clapping for the affair taking her place. Worked out great for her. 😐 ..I guess those people I knew were just a whole lot better at cheating and lying. Ugh.
I recently got ghosted by my now former best friend bc she kept getting mad that I wouldn’t just agree with her and everything she did bc recently she’s been making bad decisions and I try to be supportive but I’m not just going to tell you you’re right when you’re not. When you’re being self destructive & such. That’s not helpful to you.
What a beautifully done video! So nuanced, I’m excited to be able to share this with my partner. I feel like you concisely explained a lifetime of experiences that are hard to get across clearly to those around us who have not experienced that kind of social dynamic.
I feel like there is also a difference between feeling angry and blaming smb. You are allowed to feel however you are feeling, but how you act up on those feelings is another thing.
Im a 26 year old trans lesbian lady who mostly hangs out with similar folks and I'm realizing how little I truly understand about hetero dating. The fact you have to factor this weird battke of the sexes metagaming into everything, or else risk serious harm, is so foreign to me. I feel like Im actually learning a lot
Straight dating is effing 5D chess. Not only dating, but also navigating female friendships. I guess there’s a judgmental aspect to it but being friends with women who always wants male attention is annoying.
Dating culture has always sucked to be honest. Even courtly romances which are the most bearable still sucked. It’d be nice if dating culture wasn’t so gendered but rather about what you like in a person. Not saying you have to date someone outside of your gender preference, just stop trying to appeal to men or women and start being more specific like trying to appeal to people who share your hobbies, you get better relationships out of that.
My ex boyfriend cheated on me. I caught him secretly texting with another girl, I didn't see much but it was a hidden communication that ended up to be more than it seemed to be. When I found out who this girl was and showed my best friend, first thing she said was "Oh, she's pretty though". Like that makes it better 🙄 and proceeded to say that it's not the other girl's fault even though she 100% knew we were in a relationship... Your video made me feel so heard for the first time in a while
I’ve always resented the notion that not enabling toxic behavior makes you “not a girls girl”. I’ve had this critique lobbed at me by some women I’m no longer friends with and it hurts because I’m very much a girls’ girl, just not someone who doesn’t call out when someone is making choices that are harmful to themselves or others, like, “Gee, I’m so sorry I don’t want you to do something self destructive, guess that makes me a horrible friend 🙄”. I will never be the type of friend (and I’m this way with guys too) that will enable behaviors that are harmful.
I think that depends on what you do, many people disguise abuse and toxic behaviour as just being helpful and not wanting people to make harmful choices to themselves and others, so, this can go either way.
@@bluester7177 I don't disagree, but I wouldn't say I've ever been abusive or toxic...I've called people out for making decisions that could genuinely put their safety, my safety or others' safety in jeopardy. I never say it in a mean or unhelpful way, but I feel it's the right thing to not enable someone to do something that causes harm.
Honestly as a queer person the amount of ownership or possessiveness straight people have over their partner downright baffles me. I mean if I dating a guy I wouldn't monitor who he could be friends with and demand he can only be friends with girls because "what if he's into you" , the lack of trust in straight relationship is so normalized and is often directed towards women or the "other woman" rather than the guy who actually cheated.
it seems odd that self proclaimed girl’s girl will put other women down for not being like them, isn’t that the opposite of being a girl’s girl? to me it just seems like someone telling everyone else they’re a nice person, instead of just being nice
I think when a lot of people say "don't get mad at the other woman", they're directing that mostly to outsiders who are judging the situation. Like when Adam Levine cheated on his pregnant partner, the initial dog pile was squarely on the young girI he cheated with and there was a backlash against that but the backlash was directed at people who were dogpiling the affair partner, not the woman who was cheated on. If that makes sense? I think the victim can be mad at both of them, but it's just weird to me when outside observers are more mad at the affair partner than the one who cheated
good point, I wish I thought of that! d'oh, pinning it instead
OMG this is EXACTLY what i say
Plus there can be this weird undercurrent of: he's a man, he can't help it. YOU as the woman should have not let this happen.
I've seen the women who got cheated on be way more angry at the other woman than onlookers. It's always "she seduced him!" Or "he loved me, but she changed him"... onlookers can be cruel, but surprisingly often I hear people defending the "other woman", too ("well, she wasn't cheating on anyone")
Men would probably get away with being the "other man" way easier, but I don't know any recent examples so I can only assume
Fs but the hate towards ariana is more because this is not the first time she’s done this like shes literally notorious for getting with men in relationships so it’s understandable lol
When I was younger and naive, I assumed that my female dominated office was drama because 'too many women'. Turns out the male dominated office when I joined IT was just as much drama. Gossip, bitchiness etc. It was bonkers.
And I cringe at remembered pick me behaviour. Argh the shame.
I once worked at a female dominated office that felt like high school 2.0 and girlboss mentality was rampant, and the management seemed to single me out for every little thing; right now I still work in a (different) female dominated team but it's very supportive and I don't ever feel targeted (in fact everybody on that team loves me) lolol
so yeah it definitely has nothing to do with gender it's just that ppl are ppl and sometimes that ends up in horrible situations that look worse than it is and reflect poorly on whichever demographic may be dominant lolol
Fr. It's an easy assumption to make when you're a woman and are mostly around other women, because you'll mostly see that behavior from women and then not consider that it's most likely just because you aren't around men as often. If you're around both of the same mental maturity and what not equally, it will be very much similar. Many assume a guy's hostility is always going to be more physical and obvious while women tear each other down mentally, but anyone of any gender can do psychological warfare. Frat guys have hazing rituals that are all about displaying hierarchies and humiliation, after all. Dudes spread gossip all the same.
It's like how people assumed that girls love to talk about boys all the time, but when you ask dudes, dudes will say they loved to talk about girls all the time. Heck, the girl's girl thing at the beginning of the video sounds like my friend's version of the bro's code.
If a workplace is dominated by unhealthy and immature people, it'll be unhealthy and immature, no matter what demographic, basically.
I am working in the technical field for year together with man and I worked a few years with a very female laboratory. It is literally the same. You might have more jokes about naughty stuff with the men, but that is the only difference.
Friend of mine drives a taxi. It's a small town, there are 16 drivers in this company, she's the only woman. Naturally there are women in other positions, but still, she's with these guys all the time. And drama there is insane. Men there LOOOOVE to gossip&start crap just because...idk, they are bored. And it's not 20 year olds. Most of these men are 45+. It's people, not gender.
I'm in nursing so majority female dominated. Basically, every male nurse I've ever met is lauded as being the most amazingly kind competent angelic nurse ever and are seen as a cut above their female peers. If they're young, they have soooo much potential. If they're more experienced, they're soooo wise and know everything. If they're senior, they've earned it. If they're junior, it won't be for long. Never have I encountered such gushing over equally nice/supportive/competent female nurses. This is anecdotal, of course, and doesn't account for intersectional considerations, but I doubt my experience would be that far off from other people's. There's also evidence to suggest that male nurses are promoted faster than female nurses.
There is such a massive amount of internalised misogyny in nursing that is never acknowledged and creates this horrible cycle where people adopt similar attitudes to the one you talk about in your comment. Day one of uni we were allocated into our seminar groups, and I was in one of the two groups that had guys in it. ALL of the other girls said how happy they were in a mixed group over and over again that first week. They kept saying this because "girls are just so bitchy and the boys will balance it out". We hadn't even remotely gotten to know each other yet. How can you say there was any bitchiness? Everyone always treated this one guy in my class like he was a literal genius because he did well in his assignments. When female students (such as myself lol) got the same or better marks, nobody commented on it at all. Everyone mothered him constantly because he was just soooo sweet, and yes, he was a lovely boy, but was he any lovelier than the friendliest girls? Not really. Conversely, the bitchiest senior nurse I know at my current workplace is a man. He creates a hostile work environment constantly and seems to enjoy making you feel inadequate. If he were a woman people would have no problem labeling her a bitch, but because he's a man he's "sassy" and everybody vyes for his attention and approval all the time. I'm sooo sick of it why can't everybody just be girls girls??
The question of the hour remains: Is the cow a cows' cow?
The only real and important question
Reject tradition, embrace moodernity
Tbh I'm starting to doubt there IS a cow. Just thoughts. Seems strange she can never show up. Downright suspicious...
@@nicematerial HERESY! BURN THE WITCH!
She is a cow of the people
What's interesting is that traditionally, being a guy's guy is almost opposite of a girl's girl. The guy's guy will help cover up another guy's cheating and other stuff.
@user-qk9sx3ls5nHuh?
@user-qk9sx3ls5nThis one is too far gone, you have to tone it back a little or we can't even get offended cus we don't know what you're on about
@user-qk9sx3ls5nI think your bot is broken
@user-qk9sx3ls5n what does this even mean. If you are stating 20/80 percent tinder studies then help seek mental help.
There was an article on how men bond by harassing and insulting each other. If you say hey maybe it would be good to be nice to each other? They’re like 🙄we’re not sensitive like women
Had a male coworker I was friends with cheat on his girlfriend with a female coworker (I’m a gay guy btw). I voiced that I thought it was wrong immediately, but left it to him to either stop or tell his girlfriend about it. All of his other guy friends went along with it and even helped him cover it up. After several weeks of this and seeing how miserable his girlfriend became (she could tell something was off, but didn’t know what) I just told her. I wasn’t friends with her and didn’t even like her that much, but that type of behavior is just wrong. I gave him a million chances to make it right on his own. Needless to say he and I are no longer friends and he ended up dating and later cheating on our coworker. Men do have a bro code, but that mostly only applies to how they treat each other and not women
Thank you for being a real one
Why didn’t you mind your fucking business? They were weird for helping him cover it up, and it’s fine if you felt compelled to aid someone who was suffering, but you started the situation determined to decide for others what they should do with their bodies.
Conservative shit.
@@ShesBearyniceimagine defending cheating. You're trash
You helped that girl out in the long run.
The perks of being gay. I do the same exact thing out of respect for my friends, regardless of gender. Funnily enough, I was the one cheated by friends and no one told me about it, my partner did it himself lol
I think the whole “confidence” phrase of “walk into a room knowing you’re the hottest girl in the room” furthers the idea that we have to compare our beauty to others, is that really true confidence?
It’s honestly a power that we curse half of the time. I’m past that phase in my life, but I was an absolute tyrant in my own head.
Women were never nice to me in my early 20s, so I looked to men who didn’t want to be my friend but at least they weren’t so mean. The early 2000s were super slut shamey.
I was too autistic to understand people’s intentions. I fucked up for sure, but it was a pretty hopeless situation.
🥺💔
True confidence is acknowledging & accepting your own strengths & weaknesses & not feeling any need to compare yourself to others because everyone is perfectly imperfect in their own unique ways.
holding other women accountable for their actions is like overlooked as a way of supporting women. being able to talk to someone about a poor decision, opinion, belief, etc. is caring for them & supporting them
Especially when those bad actions negatively affect other women too. By letting it slide when a woman gets into a relationship with a man they know is in a monogamous relationship, you are essentially signing off on the harm being done to the innocent woman in the equation who just wanted a normal relationship with a guy who's a d-bag. Like, how is that being a girls' girl either?
Yes! If we pretend that women can't do bad things, we aren't treating them like people
@@ConejitoPequenitoEXACTLY
It's like those examples of permissive parenting where the parent addresses the child that is hitting another child, trying to help them with whatever emotional issue has come that is causing them to hit someone, without at all addressing the other child that is getting hit. Actually loving and parenting your child would be first making sure they *stop* hurting another child and showing concern for the child being hit first. And then, once harm has been dealt with, addressing the root cause of their behavior.
This yes-man style of 'support' in any form just encourages toxic, self-centered behavior with no regard for the victims of it. If your vibe is hurting others, maybe it deserves to be killed.
@auroraborealissings2084 fr and me calling out my friends when they do stuff like that is me hoping to be called out when im not doing something right in the future.
Also for the most part if your friends hype up your bad actions theyre likely still not going to share the consequences of those actions.
In an alternate universe, there is a channel presented by a cow and all the videos are written and produced by Tara Mooknee.
And in that universe, the cow just got a human-print rescue cat too.
@@Emilio1985I don't know if I should up vote this or down vote it
Unfortunately Tara Mooknee couldn't be in the video in that universe.
@Werezilla but if enough alternate people like and subscribe she might be able to make an appearance in the next one
@@Eric-md3mpMaybe the system got messed up and the only reason we can see Tara Moknee in this universe is that enough people in that universe liked and subscribed.
And vise versa for the cow in that universe
i love how you take a piece of celebrity gossip and turn it into a full dissection of gender politics and interpersonal relationships... big brain behaviour
also we have the same green cat toy, cat moms >>
I always find you in the comments on multiple of the creators I love, stay lovely cx
Hi Film Fatales! I agree!
@@Jazzyb3lle i spend all my time on youtube and it's really showing now huh
wouldn't expect anything less from Tara Mooknee, one of my favorite modern cultural anthropologists
For me, being a girl's girl is literally don't do what you wouldn't want done to you, to another girl. For example, don't take someone's married spouse when they are still married. Don't want to get hurt? Don't hurt another girl.
The spouse is a human being with his own rights and voice and cannot be "taken", he can only choose to leave. Hitting on a married/taken man sucks but a man can never be taken from you. He can only DECIDE to leave you, all on his own, because he wants to.
@@iva6583 Yeah, but also, the other woman never 'has' to be the other woman. She also has agency in not being an asshole. It's ok to hold both parties to the standard of being a decent person and not cheating.
@@iva6583ok skank
i feel like that's just being an ethical person
So just to be a good person?
Why does internet culture reduce everybody down to archetypes? Humans are nuanced AF, we're not a bunch of DnD classes running around out here.
That's what I've been saying!!!!!
It creates gross genralizations about men and women, and relationships in general. A very bold excuse to be ignorant about humanity. "That's why I stopped dating" or "That's why I stopped talking to men". Yeah great progress we've made in humanity haven't we.
!!!!!
Humans like to group people into easy to understand groups.
Makes it easier to understand the world and not try that hard.
When your partner cheated on you with someone who you know, then it's absolutely fine to blame both of them, because the other person *knew* they were screwing up someone's relationship. If it's a stranger who you have no connection with however, then it's very possible that your partner just hid their relationship status entirely, at which point only the partner is to blame. If it's unknown whether or not your partner has hidden his relationship, then I'd still only blame the partner until evidence to the contrary emerges.
Sorry that the comment is specifically about a topic that you wanted to get ahead of responses to that, I couldn't help myself
this!
Well said! I’ll also say from personal experience, when I was in high school, I found out one of my closest friends and my then boyfriend were hooking up behind my back. I was more upset with my friend because she was someone I had know for over a year, who I trusted deeply, confided in, who I shared so much of myself with. On the other hand, he was some guy I had recently started dating. Perhaps it is not fair that I held her to a higher standard (maybe there’s something deeper to unpack there), but I was more hurt and distraught by her actions than his, even though they did the same thing. They were both wrong, but context of friendship enhanced the “wrongness” of it to me, if that makes sense.
@@misslinguinniperfectly said, women should be supportive of the women in their lives instead of treating them like competition. Female friendships full of trust and fun is a beautiful thing.
Cheating is always about the betrayal of trust. We're mad at the partner rather than the Other Woman because he's the one who has promised to be faithful. But if it's a close friend, well... she also kind of implicitly has promised not to #&% you over and lie and go behind your back. It's absolutely normal to be hurt by that just as much as his betrayal.
@@misslinguinniI think it's definitely a case by case basis to determine who you should be holding to a higher standard and be more hurt by their disloyal actions. I think in your circumstance, you were well within your rights to be more hurt over your friend backstabbing you than the boyfriend. I think for the most part, the person who should probably be judged more harshly is the person you feel closer to and who you've known longer, if that makes sense?
I think the reason why people are so mad at Ariana is bc she fully knew SpongeBob was married and has a kid but boinked him anyway. Lots of folks on the internet seem to point this out as a pattern of behavior for Ariana which is why she is getting so much ire. I think in cases like this, it’s perfectly justified for the person who was cheated on to be pissed at both their partner and the other person. Ariana seems to cut other women down to boost her own self confidence and that’s not even mentioning her controversies around cosplaying as other ethnicities.
Absolutely unrelated of me but I like how everyone in the comments is calling him "Spongebob" 😂
@@awkwardbean1504 HAHAHAHAHA
@@awkwardbean1504 even as someone who loves the musical i still have trouble remembering his name 😂
i'll be honest, i decided to read through the comments before watching the video or reading the description and almost had a heart attack because i thought you were talking about Tom Kenny and not whoever Ethan Slater is
@@CattafangSame! I was like wait no not Tom Kenny!
I really appreciate your take on "the other woman". Having been in that situation, it was so frustrating to constantly be told that I should only be angry at the guy and not the close friend that went after him. Why not both
It’s one thing if the person your SO cheats with doesn’t know he’s in a relationship, then he is effectively cheating on both of you. But a close friend going out of their way to go behind your back? That’s a betrayal of the friendship, just as much as your SO cheating is a betrayal of the romantic relationship. Yeah of course you get to be angry at both.
One time I got infatuated with a man I worked with briefly (already a bad idea) and he kept saying his wife was interested in polyamory so he wanted to start seeing me. I didn’t try to push things, I just let things sit and wait to see if she really was. He’d give me updates every day on his obvious attempts to convince her. She eventually said that she wasn’t comfortable with opening up her relationship so I ended anymore contact with the man. They had 5 kids and were already having relationship issues. I did not need to be involved with that drama or be his bandaid for his lonely dick. Have more self respect and respect for others. What dick is truly worth ruining lives over? None.
Good. I blocked a male friend who finally admitted to me before he gets married he wants to experience “a Latina women again” I’m like dude wtf.
@@markigirl2757weird and disgusting. Some have no boundaries.
Exactly. Unless you can see a future with this person, without ruining someone else's lives, like what are you even doing ?
Good for you! He was trying to sneakily get the go-ahead from his wife. I knew someone who got knocked up by a guy in an open marriage. He has many kids with multiple women and his wife also has boyfriends. Look out for yourself and I'm so glad I'm not dating anymore 😂
It's also VERY common for women to skip intersectionality. A Black woman may have legitimate complaints about a White woman and other White women shut her down with "girls have to stick together." Girls' girls stand up for their sisters and hold misbehaving women accountable. Knowing affair partners are included in this.
So MANY legitimate complaints about so many behaviors, and I’m supposed to just go with it all? And they treat trans women awful too, obviously.
very true
THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE☝🏾 I wish it was too comment tbh
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had legitimate concerns about my white coworker at my last job and the reaction I got from my black male coworkers was “your just jealous”.
💀 like dude, she’s on the clock… in a room… on FaceTime for half an hour multiple times.
It's nice to believe that all women are nice but realistically they're probably doing it because they know they can get away with it, get their validation
Someone saying you're not a girl's girl is worse than someone calling you a c**t or a b***h. It's hard to come back from that one. It's not vulgar in any way, yet it cuts the deepest.
@wynn1587not all of us are woman
@wynn1587a woman’s woman doesn’t have the same ring to it lol
Also, chill.
@wynn1587agreed I hate the infantilzation of women
@wynn1587 you're right, although i notice that it is mostly used among teenagers.
@wynn1587Idiot. The term “guy’s guy” also exists. Your feminism is fake. You jump at words and pretend there’s demeaning ideology behind them when language is more complicated than that.
It’s different when you KNOW he’s married, and when you DONT. I think that’s the difference for me. If you don’t know, I don’t have beef with you, and might ask you out for coffee, to have a bitch fit.
literally. they were lied to just the same. just not the same type of investment yet
Tara liked a comment that went into detail about what you are talking about, so it’s safe to say she knows the difference. She was specifically talking about the women who do know the men are in a relationship and go through with the affair. Have a great day.
honestly. i would feel bad if i was the other woman and i didn’t even know, bc he’s cheating on you too, and you’re not even his first choice either. like it would feel shitty :/
A guy I once dated ended up having a GF. I didn't know. She found out my number somehow and called me attacking me. I hung up on her and ignored her. Her friend decided to call me and spoke to me calmly. I explained everything to her and told her when her friend decides to speak to me with respect, I will gladly speak to her. She finally calmed down and spoke to me like an adult and I explained everything to her. How he lied about being single. How when I went to his home there was nothing of hers. I even met his mother and grandmother. Neither of them said he had a GF. Her anger was at the wrong person and I made sure she directed it at him
@@ximar0ckstrxgod the family not saying anything is the worst part. i know someone who this happened to. very nasty to enable that
A memory I'll always have is when I was in high school I was living with a boyfriend because I had nowhere else to go, and of course I felt he was my family back then. A girl in school was picked on a lot and I always stood up for her. We hung out more and I thought we were friends. She knew my situation, etc... and she slept with my boyfriend. This lead to our breakup and my homelessness. She started spreading rumors I deserved all the pain I was receiving because I was a "whore." (I was literally a virgin). I was so heartbroken because of what my boyfriend did, but I was equally angry and heartbroken someone I wanted to build up and cared for was willing to break me down in return. Yet, I was told by multiple people I didn't have a right to be mad at a person who knowingly did something to hurt me without remorse. Sorry, but I had every right to be upset over someone making an active choice to hurt me. It's comforting that Tara acknowledged the right to be angry at someone sleeping with your boyfriend.
Feminism isn't an excuse to get away with hurting other women or people. That's literally the opposite of feminism and it drives me crazy.
Just want to say that I’m so, so sorry for what you’ve been through. Betrayals like these are the worst. Especially when you thought these people had your back. Things involving men and insecure or geeky girls always end badly, I know from experience 😅
I'm so sorry and hope you're in a better place now❤
Especially if it's a close friend, they betrayed you just as much as the partner, it can even hurt more. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I was in a similar situation. Well two similar ones actually. My first bf cheated on me with a girl I helped. She picked him and wanted him at all cost. The thing is he never dated her, just used her as a backup plan, so she blamed me for that...I dumped the guy and it was still my fault for everything. How? Then again , my fiances best friend's wife wanted to break us up and make him date her sister. Again she spread rumours I was a whore. I had thr chance to sleep with married men and I didn't do it, out of respect for the girl. It takes two to cheat and if you know he is taken, you are absolutely at fault
I’m so sorry this happened to you 🩷 growing up I was bullied by a group of girls and the girls in my friend group (who wanted to fit in) because I was super shy for years. IMO It’s okay to be wary of other women despite what others say. At least for me I always will me.
I would never go out with a taken man. Married or dating. I literally don’t care. But some of these women have no problem with it. But the right person will come to you and who won’t hurt you.
Yeah I think by being a girls girl we’re still allowed to call other girls out for the behavior as long as it’s in a non-misogynistic way. Like if she’s cheating on her boyfriend, I think it’s 100% okay to call her out on it as long as you’re not calling her misogynistic terms.
Crazy thing is that men don't do this to each other. When their buddy is cheating they shrug and turn away, if not...encourage them even.
Ofc
@@katgreer6113ikr
YES
100% 100%
I always thought the "don't be mad at the other women" thing was because the man often doesn't tell the woman that he's married, at least until she's in love.
yeah i think that's often the case. in the ariana grande case she knew he was married and had gone to her house and held her baby
I think it was easier to believe/hope that before social media. I know my coworkers are married because they wear their rings, talk about their partners, and have social media. It's more believable that someone might not know if it's not a marriage or if they work in a field where they don't wear their rings. But of the real life people I've known who have cheated, it was never a situation where the other man/woman didn't know, it was usually something like they were following their hearts or that they just didn't like the other person's partner. So I could be biased towards giving someone no slack.
@@awkwird8035 That's fair, but I also know a lot of youngish people who are barely on social media and are even socially media illiterate.
@@cynthiaxwangcomedy I don't really follow her, or celebrity news in general, so I didn't know that. That is SUPER messed up. I'm glad I never got into her music now.
@@Puuws This. I dont really get it unless the girl was your friend. It gives me the vibes of "well he wouldnt have cheated if he didnt have who to cheat with", instead of if he wants to cheat and is cheating you have other problems in the relationship and its better you find out sooner rather than later.
I had a female friend whom I was friends with for eleven years. We went to school together, later went to the same university, even lived together for a number of years. She'd honestly been one of my closest friends, and I always saw her as someone with a great empathy and common sense. Then she started trash-talking our mutual friends behind their backs, started being generally catty and mean, putting other women around her down, and eventually started seeking out men in relationships to have "affairs" with. She would boast about it to me, seemingly genuinely expecting me to say something like "Hell yeah, girlie, go get it, you slay, queen". When that wasn't my immediate reaction, she got kind of defensive and said it was all an important part of her "second puberty" and her journey to bigger self-esteem. She also told me that she really thought I would be more supportive about it. Meanwhile, I was in a moral crisis - on the one hand, I heard from left and right how you shouldn't blame the other women, only the guy, and it's precisely the same argument she used as well. On the other hand, it felt so callous and alibistic to me. Eventually I told her that her stories of "snatching" someone else's partner just made me feel sad for that guy's girlfriend and that I think she is not absolved of responsibility just because the guy decided to cheat, because, well, she knew he would be cheating. I also told her that I loved her, that I still think she's a great person and that I just simply cannot pretend to be supportive over this one thing, because I'm imagining how those men's partners must be feeling. I thought I was quite sensitive and respectful in my delivery, but apparently I irreparably broke the girl code, because the very next day she announced that she's moving out and that she doesn't require any help with packing her things. She did move out and then completely ghosted me on social media. After eleven years of talking every day, I never saw or spoke to her again... because I didn't excitedly support her on her cheating journey. Back then, I was super heartbroken about it, but I also learned a lesson about the negative side of the girl code, and how it can be used to defend shitty behaviour. Your video was spot on, it really encapsules both the good and the bad of the girl's girl culture. I appreciate you, Tara. ♥
It must have been very difficult to abruptly lose a friend like, and I am sorry you had that experience. In my experience, if you are friends with or dating someone and you observe them being cruel / shitty to some third person, it will only be a matter of time before that behavior is directed towards you. I don't mean to sound callous, but she may have been doing you a favor. Either way, wheter or not she acknowledged it, it was very kind of you to try to protect her feelings when you absolutely did not need to. I hope you are now surrounded by people who fully appreciate you.
You’re not alone this reminds me of my ex-friend loll. Close friends for like 5 years (highschool). After she and her first kind-of-boyfriend split, she started doing a lot of hookups. I see no problem with that. Go ham. However her whole personality just took a sudden 180. She was always bitter and mean when we’d hang out and would call everything my friends and I wanted to do/enjoyed lame/stupid. She just wanted to sit in our dorm for hours and complain about people from highschool (who we hadn’t seen in at least a year) or only talk about her hookups. She was a repeat homewrecker, by the way.
One day she started shit talking a shared friend for no reason at all. They hadn’t even to each other spoken in months!! I decided I was done with her and never had a conservation with her after that.
I only learned recently she would talk about me and other friend behind our backs because she was angry we were in relationships and she wasn’t. I don’t like bringing relationships into my friendships. I think friendships should focus on our mutual enjoyment of each other. But I guess she just didn’t want that. I’m still not happy about it; feels bad we couldn’t just talk. But she was never one to really communicate. 🤷♀️
Sounds like unresolved issues and she may need some therapy.
@@seame3795 it’s really gross to say this about someone. Like, you’re probably not wrong in the sense that everyone could benefit from some kind of mental health care, but the fact that you’re on your “seek therapy” bullshit is really aggressively annoying and dismissive of people. Of course even women would treat other women like that.
@@justinwatson1510 Thank you for the kind message. ♥ And you are right, she was actually doing it to me as well. I am not sure about the trash-talking behind my back, but she would put me down, laugh at my taste in music, clothes, my autistic traits etc., and generally made me feel like a pitiful outsider. I honestly can't believe how meek and submissive I was back then. Sure, whenever she said something like "Mutual friend XYZ has a super annoying laugh" I would counter with "I actually love their laugh, it makes me feel happy, too", but I still operated within "she's a good person and this is just a temporary mood" parameters instead of realizing that she has changed. In a way, I am very grateful for this whole experience, even though it was hard at the time. Without it, I wouldn't learn to see red flags in people and speak up firmly, and I wouldn't be able to sorround myself with the kind, loving, honest friends that I am lucky to have now.
being a girls' girl should not mean supporting your friends through their bullshit. in the satc example you used (LOVE that clip), by that metric, charlotte would be considered NOT a girls' girl by calling out carrie's bad behavior--even though she clearly is advocating for the wife in this instance and admonishing carrie to consider her feelings. for me, a big thing is not abandoning or de-prioritizing your friendships when you get in a relationship. of course new love is exciting and you may want to spend all your time with your partner, but it feels really shitty when a friendly clearly cares more about her romantic relationships than her platonic ones.
I like this comment
i like this a lot
I’ve been a culprit of this in the past (only once when my husband and I started dating, and honestly it was mostly my male best friends who I stopped hanging around) and I wish so badly I could go back and get that time back with my friends, ofc I’m thankful for that time with my husband but I feel guilt and like I missed out genuinely. I love those people and we’re still close but I hate feeling like I missed a part of their life. We were 18 too so it feels like such an important time for friends.
I learned firsthand what a girl's girl is when my ex was messaging his ex gf behind my back while we were together, begging for her back. She told him to f off sent me all the screenshots.
On the other hand, I learned what a girl's girl IS NOT when that same guy was cheating on me, and a girl I thought was my friend knew about it but chose not to tell me.
To this day, I have a ton of respect for that ex gf, but no respect at all for my fake "friend" who chose to keep my cheating ex bf's secret.
Last time I confronted my friend about her man's cheating she cut me off saying I was "trying to ruin their relationship."
Funny thing is, he's also a sexual abuser and when I told her this too she said "he's not" even though girls in our same circle have been pursued by him relentlessly
@@katgreer6113 i feel like some women just hate themselves so much they project it on other women!!
@@katgreer6113 Reminds me of the time my friend blocked me off because I told her, her bf is abusive.
And voila, he has successfully isolated her from everyone, made her hate her family and now I have no idea what her future life will be like.
@sparkyblue7016
Yikes. Sometimes I can't feel too bad for people like that because they just don't listen.
I definitley feel like theres a big difference from a partner deciving someone into thinking theyre single to cheat on you vs someone knowingly persuing someone who's taken and I'm glad you pointed that out.
But its still the partner who makes the ultimate desicion to violate your trust, even If "the other one" is an asshole for enabeling it.
Yep! Also, situations where the partner coerces someone else into sleeping with them by taking advantage of power dynamics (ie a boss sleeping with a subordinate like Bill Clinton, or an older guy/man taking advantage of a much younger woman/girl)
@lexa2310 Thing is a friendship is a type of relationship like any other. For some people they are even more important than romantic relationships. Having a friend cheat with your partner is also a betrayal of that friendship just as much as it’s a betrayal of the romantic relationship from your partner’s side of things. It’s not that your supposed friend could make your partner cheat at all. It’s the betrayal of trust on both people.
I really dislike the propensity some of these girls have to make bold blanket statements. Like, “it’s a red flag if she doesn’t have a lot of girl friends.” This only perpetuates more “mean girl” attitudes, which is suppose to be the opposite of girls girl lifting each other up! Like you showed in the video, it’s so easy for a definition to start to spiral out of control.
Exactly.
I usually say it's a red flag if she doesn't get along with other women. It doesn't matter if you have one good friendship with a girl or fifty, but if you don't get along with *all* girls? That's where it gets murky.
@@gabriellemeche992 Fuck you. You’re the reason for that. You’re deciding arbitrary ass red flags as though there are not women who are uncomfortable around other women do to trauma or unluck or personality differences- you literally decide that women are flawed if they do not perform alliance with women in a way that YOU decide is sufficient.
“Feminists”; “women are only acceptable if they live and act and behave how I say they should”.
@gabriellemeche992 I kind of disagree on that. I have a small number of friends who are women. I try my very best to get along with other women, but when other women automatically don't like you all because of your looks, it's hard to get along. They give the side eye, ignore you, or just give off vibes that they don't like you. It's not a red flag at all to have few women friends.
@@sweetnerdygirl90I think that’s what she’s saying, that if someone only has a couple female friends that’s not a red flag, but if they have none then it is. I agree about the looks thing though. I’ve seen friends who are especially conventionally attractive get treated badly by other women who otherwise were really nice to the rest of our friends. I think it comes from the same toxic sense of competition and internalized misogyny as the women who aren’t friendly towards other women at all.
It's not ok to mess around with someone who is in a relationship. Period. I seriously side-eye anyone who lays all the blame on either party in a cheating situation. If you know, it's wrong. You're both responsible. Don't purposely hurt other people for funsies.
Fair, but I do still think there's a tendency to put more of the blame on the other person than is necessarily fair. Is it wrong to help someone break a promise in a way that you know will really hurt someone? Absolutely. Is it as wrong or worse than being the person who actually broke the promise? Not unless the person being cheated on trusted you as much as they trusted their partner.
That bit in the SatC clip really frustrated me: like, sure, be furious with the hypothetical lady who helped your friend's husband break her heart, but why aren't we at least as mad with the hypothetical version of Charlotte's fiance?
@@CatHasOpinions734i like the way you said this
@@CatHasOpinions734 get mad at the people doing that then.
If the affair partner doesn't know that's an affair at all, then they are not to blame. But other than that, f them
They're not always both responsible and the tendency is to pin the blame on the women, who may have not known. That is rarely considered and it should change.
Congrats on the new cat and on your incredible, vivacious hair. Brunets and pink are always a winning match too.
I'm a brunette and was recently told I'd look good in pink. Is this a real thing?
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicosyuh
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicosI think anyone can wear pink! I think the best pinks match your skin's undertone so they don't clash with your natural blush tones
@@ms.aelanwyr.ilaicosYes. Look up color seasons and fashion.
"vivacious"
I think a "guys guy" is just "bro code" . I also think Girls girl could equally be labelled as "Girl code" seeing as it operates the same as Bro code. They are both just a set of gendered rules on behaviour to garner acceptance from those of the same gender.
There also is the concept of a Man's man, but it doesn't refer to any kind of code or standard. It's just a guy who likes hanging out with other guys and doing traditionally masculine things.
A "man's man" and a "woman's man" are pretty established ideas, there are different definitions but I think a Man's Man is the kind of guy that even people the same age can look to as a role model and respect, and generally cares about the men around him. It's a bit deeper than following the bro code because it involves more than just relationships. A Woman's Man / Ladies' Man is someone that is especially respected by the women around him (not necessarily desired though), and puts in extra effort for women. These men are easily identified by comparing them to other men and they're also not mutually exclusive.
I think there’s also an underlying aspect to “girl’s girl” that doesn’t exist with the bro code thing because, to me, “girl’s girl” almost fundamentally comes from a place of oppression. It’s about not tearing other women down in a society that for a long time has pushed women down. It’s saying hey we’re all in the same boat here so let’s help each other and stick together no matter what. It gets misused for sure but I think that’s where the whole thing stems from. (As a side note, when I say the same boat I’m talking about being women. That doesn’t apply to the intersectionality part of the convo- obvs not all women are in the exact same boat)
I feel like that might be over simplifying things. It’s not just about garnering acceptance, but building an idea for how women should treat other women. Most women want female friendships, and want to be supportive towards other women in general, but where our culture has conditioned us to think of other women as catty, petty, and vindictive, it can be hard for some women to be respectful towards other women. The problem is that those same toxic ideas about women get mixed in and it becomes hard to tell what’s helpful and what’s hurtful
Carrie was, and still is, the most “ungirl’s girl” of them all.
urgh she WAS
i read this comment before watching the video and thought it was about the stephen king character
@@falineistiredme too 💀
@@falineistired
@mademoiselleawkward7005 as a fan of Stephen King's "Carrie", she was definitely a girl's girl to herself 🙂
@@klutziez3 haha yes i was so confused
Insecure men benefit from playing women off against each other, so they can feel themselves valuable, a catch that needs to be fought for and pampered up all the time. I was with some guys, that tried to make me jealous by flirting with other women, when I didn't get upset they got confused, then I told them it's up to them whether they choose to flirt with other women or not, they have agency, they are not inanimate objects that needs to be fought for. Men who objectify women tend to objectify themselves too.
Awesome points!
Also that last one is so relevant; that those who don't treat and even see others as actual people, don't see themselves as real people either. But equally as performing 'human doings', as their images, with no one authentic truly in there.
Probably got objectified from the start and now do it to themselves and everything around them.
That last sentence
That's very interesting. My mother's new man is acting up in such a way and when I first met him, I could tell he was a bit insecure. He's an overall good guy but he's using other women to make my mom jealous. My mother is older than him, yet looks much younger, is extremely beautiful, educated and comes from a good family. It's unfortunate because he'll end up alone with no woman or the worst of woman if he doesn't realize the blessings that came his way. His insecurity is ruining his blessings.
A guy in high school would alwyas hit on me and I’d always turn him down because I simply wasn’t interested. He’d been asking me out consistently since elementary school, and when I said no for the millionth time he tried to ask out my friend who also said no. He actively tried to make me jealous and when it didn’t work he got all huffy. I actually met him again in college (he did NOT ask me out when we met btw and hasn’t since) he’s much more mellow now and apologized for being a dick in high school, but sometimes I think about him and how some men just can’t take no for an answer.
❤
I was with a guy who ended up being married (my dad looked up his “ex” wife and point blank asked her if they were still married😳) I cut ties and blocked his ass asap (the guy, not my dad). And this guy had the gall to email me twice over the following six months, like bro, my dad is a narc and I obviously tell my dad everything. Why would you still be talking to me?
But I do love that my dad is the “girl’s girl” in this situation ❤
"...my dad is a narc and I obviously tell my dad everything." You're killing me! Love your humor. Also, your dad is a hell of a girl's girl!
Your dad is the king of the girls’ girls. We love him.
I had a crush on a guy a couple of years ago. His most attractive quality was how utterly, utterly devoted he was to his girlfriend. I dreamed about making out with him once (on a roller coaster. In a theme park I co-owned with a friend and Obama.) and even in that dream, my subconcious made me check with him whether he had definitely and for realsies broken up with his girlfriend before doing that. Knowingly and willingly interfering with someone's committed relationship is just that unethical for me, apparently. Thanks for guilt tripping me in my goddamn dreams, brain. That was fun.
when you said you dreamed about making out with him on a rollercoaster in a theme park owned by you and obama i thought that meant it was something you were actually yearning for, not something that happened in an actual dream. i was so confused😭😭😭😭
One time I dreamed I cheated on my boyfriend and even during the dream I was feeling awful. And then when I woke up I had a 30 min breakdown lmao
Brain does things like this
@@areeba7045 I mean, I wouldn't say NO to that scenario, either. Not sure how Obama got in there, but hey, I'll take it.
@@Sabrina-sc1dbme too! worst feeling
I once dreamed I went on a date with a UA-camr who is married irl. In the dream I asked him if it was okay we went on a date only a few months after he and his wife had divorced. I feel like even in a dream I had to say outloud and clearly state that I wasn't making him cheat on his wife.
I’ve never understood the whole ‘possessive/aggressive stay away from my man’ thing. Another woman might put out the bait but my partner is the one who chose to take it. The woman is of bad character but the man is the one I’ll be removing from my life. I suppose if the woman was also in my life she would be cut out of my life too. Where I’d feel angry or frustrated would be when mutual friends continued relationships with these two people who have, to my mind, proved their undesirableness as a person.
As a gay man, i thought it would be okay to have an affair with a married 'straight' guy. Anyway, it wasn't. I broke it off quickly bc i felt terrible about it and i never did anything like it again. I definitely feel it's wrong if you know the person is in a monogamous relationship.
How did you think it was ok? Not judging you, i'm glad you realized it was bad. I'm just curious
@@Sofia-wh9jr at the time I thought it was okay because he was closeted. I basically thought it was okay because he was a victim of his times. He was a bit older than I as well.
@@LOSTnerd815 Oh ok, I understand. The fact that you felt unconfortable means you are an empathic person, so congrats man
@@Sofia-wh9jr I am definitely my own biggest critic and I definitely made a mistake (I still feel bad about it), but thanks for not being judgemental.
@@LOSTnerd815This is a mentality I've seen a lot and it's frankly disgusting. Someone being a victim of a difficult situation doesn't change the fact that you were participating in ruining an innocent woman's marriage and life. How do people have no regard for how their actions impact others?
I've never been cheated on (lol, that I know of, but I don't think I pick partners that are particularly prone to it), but I think it makes more sense to direct the anger towards the partner, because it doesn't really matter who the other person is - SOME person would have come along at a time or other willing to do stuff with them.
Now cheating with a friend of one's partner is vile, both from partner and friend.
Ive been cheated on once and I agree with you. I always saw it as thanks for letting me know what im dealing with sooner rather than later. If Im relying on strangers not being willing to have sex so that my partner doesnt cheat then whats the point of the relationship anyway. Obviously its a different thing if its your friend, but strangers? nah.
These are some of the straightest TikToks I’ve ever seen. My condolences Tara
The women who pushed the "be a girls girl!" on me the hardest in friendships were always the first to throw me under the bus or hurt me when it was convenient to them, and sometimes even ended up aligning with hurtful and abusive men instead and completely jumping ship. So i dont trust all that talk anymore especially those who act like some authority online about the "girls girl rules". Equality means i apply the same level of accountability to all my friends regardless of gender. When i followed the "never be mad at a girl always try to find a man at the root of the problem" formula, my trust would be broken and it's really hard to understand or come back from that especially when you're ND and dont always understand secret social cues 100% to begin with. Youre allowed to be mad when another woman knowingly pursues your husband without being labeled some weird traitor to your gender. 😑
FRRRRR the ones talking about not unfollowing ppl u met once??? It felt like they were salty someone unfollowed them idk it just seemed so petty to be like well ur not for the girls if u don’t follow this person for the rest of ur life
@panmoncada7257 Yeah, that was definitely the dumbest take. Like is being social media "friends" with someone you never talk to really THAT important?? As if unfollowing someone who barely knows you is a huge betrayal. Girl, they probably didn't even notice and never will. Lol
Good point about how people who demand loyalty to any ideal or social grouping are probably not that interested in following the same rules. Like anything else, it becomes a tool to exert power over others.
@@DeadDancers you are based. I wish people thought like us more.
This is so true. I've had experiences not trusting other girls, so people had assumed I wasn't a "girls girl," when in reality my negative experiences with other girls (especially white girls) completely changed my perspective on friendships with them. People can't just apply the same "girls girl" code to every situation because life is too nuanced for that.
In my 20s I was the woman who ignored other women and only talked to the men, but this was due to trauma. I was undiagnosed autistic at the time and had been horribly bullied throughout school by girls, whereas the boys had mostly just ignored me. So other women honestly terrified me so much that I turned non-verbal in their presence, even if I admired them and would have loved to be friends! It took a couple of amazing and persistent women who coaxed me out of my shell, along with an autism diagnosis and years of gaining self-knowledge, to teach me that most women aren't the girls who tormented me.
Sadly this is where I’m still at. I just don’t know how to talk to other women (not because I don’t want to or because I don’t like them) but because I just wasn’t socialized to have too many girl friends. The girl friends I did have at some point turned on me without explaining to me what I did wrong to deserve such a change. They would literally make fun of me for the crimes of being “fat” “ugly” and “weird.” Learning that I’m most likely undiagnosed autistic makes my early childhood and teen years make so much more sense, sadly. :(
@@loverrlee I'm sorry that happened to you as well. The women I'm friends with now I mostly met online, and they're all neurodiverse in some way. Facebook turned out to be my lifeline, as it helped me find my people.
@@JutaStokes I’m happy for you! I’ve also found a ton of people online, especially through UA-cam and Twitch and Twitter :)
❤❤
Where can I find these amazing persistent women 😭 I want what you have! as a recently diagnosed autistic girl who is in her 20s
"You know she's not a girl's girl. She likes hanging out with men more than woman."
Me a butch: Yes. That is not because I'm trying to hit on them.
Why would you hangout with men if you dont like them and a femenist?
I don’t think the concept of a girl’s girl really involves lesbians. I say this as a femme
In my past experience the other woman didn’t know I existed , so directing my anger towards her felt silly.
Yep and that’s fine. The problem is when the other woman IS aware of you and chooses to pursue your partner knowing that it would hurt you.
@@kaialove2418 in my experience it's the partner that's doing the pursuing.
A girl was once pursuing my husband hard…I mostly just felt bad for her bc her fb messages were kinda sad and it seemed like she was NOT in a good place. She was trying to get back with him and begging for money when they hadn’t talked since they were like 15-16 and idk…it seemed like she needed money and just thought she had to behave that way to get it when Ik my husband, she could’ve just said she was really hurting and he would’ve helped her. The unsolicited nude photos were unnecessary 😬
@@brittnay279 no offense but why didn't the hubby block her when she started sending n7des..?
Mr Ella looks just like my boy who sadly passed away about 10 years ago and the moment he turned up on the screen I started crying uncontrollably. I've been really missing him these past few weeks and seeing a kitty who looked so much like him being alive and loved just hit me hard. Mr Ella is adorable and I am so glad that he has a loving home, wishing you three all the best
I'm so sorry for your loss 😞 sending lots of love ❤️
I broke up with a small friend group because I found out two of the women were sleeping with men they knew were married and everyone was complacent with it and blamed the wives of the men. These were people in their 40s who were all divorced. One had been approached by a PI explaining what was going on and she continued to see the guy. It was very weird.
Ive been the other woman. Its one of my biggest regrets in life. At the time I had a serious drinking problem and a lot of unaddressed mental health issues. I ended up coming clean to the wife eventually and she left him. She has to emotionally live with the consequences of my selfishness. I agree so much with everything that was said here. I doubt I will ever let myself off the hook. What I did was beyond wrong.
If youre out there doing that, please stop. You are hurting other people, and honestly youre hurting yourself too. You arent entitled to someone elses husband.
I don't completely disagree, but you are being too harsh on yourself, she is living mostly with her partner's decision to be an unfaithful asshole, he was the one who made a commitment, not you.
So yeah, I'm glad you're in a better place and being the other person is always shitty to yourself and to the people being cheated on, but was still the committed person responsibility, I would say 9/1, and that 1 only applies if you knew.
As someone who has made the other choice of not being the other woman with someone I loved and deeply regretted it. Live your life, it is not your responsibility to guard other people’s relationship and believe me they will not do it for you. The whole concept of being for women or for men is idiotic. You care for the people you care for regardless of gender and you absolutely do not have any moral obligation towards all women because you have a vagina.
@@barboralitvanova5111That makes you a selfish person lol if you want to ruin someone's happiness for yours
@@barboralitvanova5111you may have loved him but if he still was with his wife and trying to get with you, I'm afraid it's one sided
@@meredits388 all organisms are programmed to primarily seek what fulfils their self interests. As a recovering people pleaser nothing gives me greater pleasure than to be selfish.
As ADHD woman that's been accused of being a Pick me or NLOG, thank you for this video.
This seams like a straight girl problem except I remember despite being queer getting that same weird ignoring/speaking over/bullying as if I was a threat to their hunting grounds or whatever. Like girl do you not see my undercut?? I don't care about your boyfriend.
Bringing women down is still a part of it, I have had mates who have been called everything under the sun off other women whether they were gay or just looked like they could be, some people are just horrid
Yeah I'm amab and queer and when I was in highschool I was be very perplexed whenever girls wouldn't pick up on that, and treat me like some kind of interloper. Idk I'm coming around to realizing it's due to me being autistic (they perceived me as creepy, even when the girl I was talking to was like no he's literally not bothering me) it was very bizarre and off putting. Like being perceived as a creep for being neurodivergent when you're already visibly femme as a man is so weird, like pick a lane to judge me society, please. 😅
Of course in school we're very much trapped in narrow ways of thinking about things like gender so I'm not too resentful but it does suck that I was ultimately having my self reduced to assumptions based on my innate characteristics.
@@jessica5470 right Jessica like most women may delight in bringing other
women down. honestly all these terms are originally made to spite women by other D women . Like I remember vividly a woman saying I'm pointing out that feminist hate women and don't necessarily like them like the term girls girl may not necessarily be assumed by them to empower other ladies but to
spite. As the inherent nature of most women is quite catty some women are even downright abhorrent to other ladies these women are just
clowns that honestly intend to hurt other women
But if you're masc you might get along "like one of the guys!" That might take attention off how cool-bro-chill she is! Only one girl can be the One, she must behead her opponents before they do the same to her.
@@emcaco hiii 🌞 how do you mean and what do you mean of must behead her opponent cause that sounds toxic
i have no idea what any of this means despite being raised a "girl" because, as an autistic person, i was always excluded from participating in girlhood. i was too weird for any of the other girls to tolerate long enough to actually want to be my friend and the boys were always extremely annoying. so this is all very fascinating to me!! i understand the basic requirements needed to be a "girl's girl" (be kind, be loyal, etc.) but some i just never will understand (requiring social media follows as an affirmation of friendship, limiting interaction with a friend's partner, etc.). thank you for posting as always.
LOL, I have to wonder whether THIS is why this is the first I'm hearing of this "girl's girl" discourse. Either that or I'm just old and it wasn't the term used in the 90s?
My 1-3-at-a-time core friends HAVE usually been women, but they're the ones who tolerate my weirdness and lack of comprehension of "normal 'girl talk'".
I will admit there were two times a bit later in my life where I kept flirting with a guy for a considerable time after a girl did the unspoken "back off this is my man" thing...because it puzzled me that he didn't confirm it. Surely if they were ACTUALLY in a relationship, he'd be like "Oh, and this is my girlfriend!" or look a bit guilty, right? Apparently that was very naive of me. In my defense, I HAD seen people (male and female) try to stake claims over people they weren't actually dating.
@@PirateQueen1720 Oh boy!! 😭😂 Perhaps you're like me or just a bit older (I was born in 96 : ) )! My friend group now is also relatively small, but they're also "weird".
Also no, that doesn't sound like you were naive - people are just confusing 😭! I really don't get why some things remain unspoken. Relationships are something that should be announced!
I'm an autistic afab person too and I really resonate with this comment
Was about to comment something along those lines ahahah
I'm also autistic and this comment really gets me. I could relate sm!
I was out dancing with my husband a few months ago, when a friend of his that hasn’t seen him in like 15+ years spots him and they chat while I’m still dancing and he introduces me to her as his wife and she was so rude to me and was trying to one up me because she has a very well-paying job and looking down upon everything I said. It was so odd because we were just having fun dancing, I was super nice and thought it was cute to meet a friend from his childhood. Later that night, she brought her friend over to like pile on the girl hate and I get it, I have a shaved head and I’m alternative or whatever. I knew what she was doing when she brought a random friend over that neither of us knew and I was still polite..I just felt bad for both of them because I’m just a random person that they might never see again and they tried to hurt my feelings because she knew my husband 17 years ago lol
You fully deserved to clown on them and I admire your restraint
I've had former female friends telling me I'm not feminine enough, that my chest was too small, and when my hair was short they called me a boy. Just to bring me down. (they basically acted like i gave up womanhood or whatever) And there was this girl in my town who, when any girl talked to a guy, she would get in between and try to join the conversation and pretend to know what they were talking about. It took years for the guys (and some of the other girls) to realize that that girl was just starting drama. Suddenly friendships with some guys ended, rumors were spread, it was sad honestly.
Or another girl kept trying to make me feel bad for studying English and how that had no future but her as an aspiring lawyer had the best chances. She kept trying to compare herself to me, tell me I looked tired or bad, and kept repeating how 'easy' English and German was compared to her studies. It was always out of the blue and just rude. I've also known female classmates who would only tell me stuff they didn't like about me like '' Oh well your hair is so dry and brittle :/ But mine is so soft and shiny'' and it was just weird.
I think it's super awkward to try to impress a guy by bullying other girls. Women fight so much already and I am so tired of women thinking their female friends are jealous of them or want the worst for them and therefore become just as bad. They talk about how surely the single girls are jelaous of their marriage and whatnot, talking about what a nightmare it is to turn 30 and not have children yet, and then push those ideals on other women too.
Honestly I find such devaluing behaviour disturbing, always did. I get it now logically (elevate yourself by bringing others down) but not emotionally. Seems like you and I might have been raised with values like respect and kindness.
And then you go into the world and find so little of it.
..By the way these mothers will have their complaints about their live choices on repeat to anyone who'll listen. And shame anyone who makes different choices. People are mostly ridiculous. 🙄
I knew two girls like that and one was so convinced I was trying to steal her crush but I repeatedly told her I jsut broke up with my toxic bf at the time I had no interest in dating just making friends and even compromised saying I would stop hanging out with her with the guy she liked lol. She tried to still set me up tho but I wasn’t interested and then she basically ignored me afterwards. The guy she tried to get with already had a gf and in turn ended up seeking me out to be friends bc he realized what she was doing (we became friends prior) she blocked me soon afterwards and I come to find out she attempted to sabotage me too smh. The other girl wasn’t as bad but I’m jsut like why are people that insecure smh
Carrie really sucked for that and Charlotte was right to call her out. Knowingly having a sexual relationship with a person in a monogamous relationship, even if you yourself are single, is still grotesque behavior. "I'm not the one in a relationship, so I'm not doing anything wrong." No, stop, you're gross. Is the cheater MORE at fault? Of course. But imo you're still trash for aiding and abetting that cheating. Be the bigger person and tell them to get lost.
so long as it's easy for people who realise they're not mono to get out of their relationships ! and i have no problem helping people realise they need to get out of their situations . and if that involves some romance that's okay . people should not force themselves to be unhappy .
@@iidoyilaif you’re purposely breaking people up and getting into relationships with people who are already in monogamous relationships, you are trash. If you’re merely leaving informative pamphlets about polyamory lying around to try to make people realize that’s what they want, then that’s not as bad. Cheating with someone is not “making them realize they’re not mono” it’s just participating in them abusing their spouse.
If you told me 5 years ago that Ariana Grande was f**king SpongeBob, I’d think you’re joking. Also, I’d be scared that someone I don’t know has entered my room.
He is the actor who plays him on broadway not the show
In terms of Man's Man which is a term I grew up with it didn't really mean the same thing. It was more a guy who's habits, hobbies and lifestyle were aligned to things perceived to be male. Cars, guns, wood work and similar "manly" crafts.
mhmm it's not a term that carries with it any expectation of how one should treat their fellow men. whereas with women it holds them to some kind of moral standard.
i have heard "guys' guy" be used in a somewhat closer way to "girls' girl," but anecdotally i feel like you mostly hear it from women describing their male partners. like a "guys' guy" is your boyfriend who plans a standing weekly poker night with his buddies or whatever; somebody who prioritizes social connection with his male friends in contrast to many straight men who put all their social/emotional needs onto their partners. still feels more morally neutral than "girls' girl," but i think it's a little more similar.
I wanna plug We're in Hell's recent video about men not being okay
This is what I was thinking too, I had assumed that a girl's girl would be the analog to this. And to me, all of these terms revolve around how men perceive or react to things. I thought the initial definitions were alright, but as it went on it became more and more about interpreting women's behavior through the lens of competition in a way that seems socially justified. It weaponizes the problematic Girl Boss mentality to paint any woman who doesn't "put women first" in every scenario as a pick me.
I'm also pretty irritated at this trend of creating girl terms like this. Guys, can we agree that the term boy applied to men is condescending? A boys' club is not a good thing, for example, there's an implied immaturity to it. The word guy can sub in as a less negatively coded version of that.
It doesn't have a great flow to it, but if the term had been something like 'a chick's chick' it wouldn't seem quite so childish. I'm AFAB but nonbinary so I guess it's not really my fight, but I want to push for a third term for when woman doesn't feel casual enough or is too loaded. I don't think it's a great idea to keep lumping women and children together like this.
I resent Ariana the most for the way she treated Jordin Sparks and Jeannette McCurdy. She`s the daughter of billionaires who bankrolled her fame. She riding off the success of the Jordin and Jeannette who had to work for theirs. She's always been awful, but now it's all resurfacing.
I didnt hear abt Jordin Sparks, what happened there?
@@amberwingtundrawing776nothing lol, she just happened to receive scrapped songs form jordan sparks album for yours truly
Not a single rich pwrson on earth worked for it. You cabt becoming rich ethically. Gotta steal
She’s not the daughter of billionaires lmao
@@draalttom844that’s not true depending on what rich means to you. If you’re talking people making over 200k than you absolutely can do that ethically. Medical practitioners run in my family, and it’s very doable
Personally I do think that being a girls'girl is exactly like being a people's person, just not necessarily to everyone (?)
Because how I see it, it all boils down to just being a sympathetic person.
And something about the phrase girls' girl just gives me an ick because it's like choosing who deserves our sympathy more
Also I truly belive that we put too much emphasis on people's gender, when in reality each person is so unique that the whole "girls girl" doesn't work and just seems very immature.
Just be nice and considerate.
Like in general.
dude when my ex cheated on me and had some no-so-discreet overlap with this girlie who was super popular with the guys in town, i tried to do the "feminist" thing and just befriend her. i took her word that she had no idea we were together when it was happening, and just generally sought her approval because she was so cool and fun to be around and a good artist etc. later i found out that she had indeed known about the overlap, had talked to a mutual friend about it, and that this wasn't her first time being the "other woman". it absolutely guttered my already trashed mental health and it took me a long time to recover. i think the moral of the story is that, yes, the guy in the situation is primarily to blame, but don't trip over yourself trying to excuse the actions of the other person involved because they're not entirely blameless. i really wanted to be cool about the whole thing and it hurt me even more than just being cheated on would have.
There's a lot of this girls girl thing that's true and a valid way of measuring women and there's a lot of girlies who just need to touch some grass. Holding each other to very high standards is not very feminist either.
feminism is when you touch grass (like the cow)
What the fuck is wrong with you? How can you call yourself a feminist and also believe in a “valid way of measuring women”? We’re people, not objects.
@@TaraMooknee Cows are amongst the grass-touchingist (this term needs to enter common parlance) beings out there.
I realized after breaking the cycle of being in abusive relationships (now in a safe happy marriage) that I’m not a jealous person. When I see other femme presenting people, I only feel joy towards them. I enjoy seeing women having fun and being themselves. The only time that I was jealous was when I was dating men who made me hate myself, boiled me down to body parts (making me feel less than for having a smaller chest or my post-baby body) and was constantly pitting me against other women..then I was the crazy ex
The “I got your man” mindset is internalized misogyny. The girl getting with a cheater is not only hurting herself, but also hurting the other party especially if children are involved. I could never imagine placing that amount of pain on someone let alone an entire family
For me, being a girl’s girl means that I’m not going to entertain a guy’s interest if he’s in a relationship. If I can steal your man, that means your man’s not loyal and what would I want with a man who’s not loyal? It makes me think of being in high school, when we were constantly being bombarded with media telling us that we as girls are supposed to be competing for the man’s attention. As I grew up I realized that there will always be men desperate for women’s attention, and I don’t need to compete for it. I felt really stupid about being “not like other girls” as a teenager. I felt like I had been manipulated and taken advantage of. So now it’s like, girl, men will f-ck a rancid coconut. There will always be a man who wants to f-ck you, you don’t need to go messing around in other people’s relationships. I think there is a specific kind of woman who likes to insert herself into established relationships like they can have the same level of intimacy and support without putting in the emotional labor. And at that point it’s like, ok men need to reach a point where they know better than to fall for that and that’s on him.
lmfao this dude who i knew had a girlfriend got so pissed at me for rejecting his advances like i’m not gonna bend my own feelings backwards just to steal a man who’s easily swayed into different flavors just when he feels like it
Too many girls switch up when a man is around...I say too many because I have proof... today I just watched a short... basically a girl asks if two are a couple the other girl replied "haha we are just friends" then the first girl who asked the question asked for his number and suddenly the other girl is mad....I was like what happened to honesty if you like him just say it... but the girls in the comments thought that message was valid or "relatable"... that is how I knew girls girl is bs ....
Oh god the coconut 0-0
9:12 totally agree. I can unfortunately speak from experience. When I was a 'not like other girls' girl as a teenager I was the other woman in one relationship. I justified it by my dislike for the guys girlfriend and that he said he was going to break up with her. No surprise it ended poorly within the same week. Fast forward a couple years and some personal growth and I ran into her and took the opportunity to apologize.
She still was never someone I particularly liked, but she deserved the same respect I would give anyone else.
I am a pansexual woman. I had a girlfriend and we were in a loving relationship. Suddenly she stopped talking to me and kept having excuses to not hang out with me. Finally she broke up with me and wished for us to stay friends. I agreed. Even if I no longer could love her romantically she was still a great person, we also had some mutual friends so we didn't want things to get awkward between us. I knew that sooner or later one of us is going to find a new partner and I was okay with it. We both deserved it. And honestly I would be there for her no matter what. I was thinking about myself as a girl's girl. But what I find out was that she cheated on me and left me for another guy. Our relationship was very honest yet she didn't tell me about him. What was even worse she told our mutual friends the whole story without informing me. I felt so disrespect and humiliated I just wanted to punch her in the face. I don't know how she could do that to me. And I don't know how anybody can do something like that to someone else.
As a ✨girls girl✨, I recently realized I was slightly toxic because I would get super annoyed when my friends get in relationships with men. I had the attitude of like “oh I don’t care about your boyfriend, I just wanna be YOUR friend” and they have their boyfriends with them like 24/7. I realize this might be slightly an unrealistic expectation because prioritizing romantic relationships is just what people do as they get older.
I should try harder to hang out with my friends and their boyfriends cause I still like my friend overall and I shouldn’t let one person keep away from them lol.
to be fair it is annoying when someone brings their boyfriend to everything and can't be without him and just have time with the girls
Nothing makes you wanna flea someone more than jealousy
omg this is me. i sometimes feel like i might be toxic if i just wanna hangout with just my friends alone and not with their partners/plus ones. unless my friend puts in the effort of me and their partner trying to bond as friends too then i would appreciate their extra effort too.@@TaraMooknee
It's good that you want to be a good friend, and granted, when a friend begins a relationship, you kind of have to expect that they may be attached to their partner at the hip for a while.
However, there's several things to consider. If it's been some time, like around a year, and your friend is still bringing their partner to meet ups that they have explicitly been told to be a "girl's night out", then your friend is not being considerate of how you feel. Romantic relationships take precedence in this culture, but maintining platonic ones is just as important.
I've had friendships of both varieties. In the unhealthy kind, my friends would cut time spent with friends short to hang with the partner. In the healthy ones, my friends would balance between bringing their partner along and not bringing their partner along. They also always ask ("would you be comfortable with so and so joining?") and are always ready to follow through if I say no. In both scenarios, I don't hate their partner, I just also want to be able to just hang out with just my friend sometimes and at other times, the more the merrier! In the former situation though, I am more likely to start resenting both my friend and their partner, vs in the latter, I feel more chill and happy to see them both, because they are considerate of me as well.
It's a balance. You can't have too much of either, you know? The balance depends on you and your friends and your relationships with each other. You'll find your way. And starting with being self-aware like you are now is a great step forward.
It is good that you acknowledge the jealousy is not good and all and you want to take the initiative to hang out more. Though, try talking to your friend about having moments with just the two of you more often too, if that has pretty much died out and she _is_ taking her bf to everything. It's about balance and communication just as much as any relationship type. It's totally fair to initially feel slighted and annoyed when you get less attention from someone than before. It's also completely fair to not want to have the bf with you every time you go to see her.
"Girl's girl" feels like just another way to talk about problems in the context of feminism while not mentioning feminism and making women's empowerment seem as pink and fluffy as possible. Most women want to discuss this politics and the ethics of what it should mean to succeed in cooperative and fair ways that empower other women, but you won't hear anyone say, "She doesn't get to call herself an empowering feminist while sabotaging me, my relationship, and the stability it brings me and using sex appeal-related social climbing to get an undesearved edge . She's part of the patriarchy as far as I'm concerned." It's much easier to say "She's not on team girl's girl."
This isn't politics, it's a self-help-like "girl code" that kinda sorta looks like it. I'm not advocating an approach to being a feminists' ally and a less toxic, sexist human -- This is just how me an all my COSMO girlfriends girl.
It's good for people to talk about serious issues in non-threatening, non-academic ways, but, however much debate there is about what's wise behavior among women here, having these debates entirely with language dressed in a pink high-schooler's kitten heels feels like a politically cowardly and awkward game.
this is a interesting point, i have to agree. something about "girl's girl" doesn't sit right with me, because the term itself seems to be part of a particularly watered down brand of fangless online feminism. and women who criticize it often get hit back with the classic "no u", and accused of shaming the ~~traditionally feminine~~ demeanor. which to me just circles right back to sexism, because why are we calling dumbed down discourse "traditionally feminine"? it has its function, but it's infantilizing and past a certain degree it stops being helpful
@@r.r.4809 worse, it demands women behave according to standards established by those beyond themselves- standards that just so happen to conform to the expectations of cis heterosexual, wealthier/powerful white women and seek to, conveniently, establish or increase the amount of power possessed by them- often derived from patriarchal men- under the guise of fighting against oppression.
It’s almost like all feminism short of the anarchist, queer, and transgender variety are the only kind focused on an authentic reckoning against patriarchy. The attempt to delineate good behavior from bad behavior as opposed to emphasizing the importance of cooperating with humans to create an environment as kind and safe as possible, ESPECIALLY by defining for women what we can be, who we are, and how we ought to live and think is always inherently patriarchal. Doing that for anyone is patriarchal because it always affects women- even matriarchies would oppress women and people by expecting behaviors out of them more than trying to keep people stable. The instant we prioritize social punishment is the moment we decide to damn everyone to torture.
@@r.r.4809 This may be the weirdest interaction I have seen between two dudes.
@@burnttoast111 ??? i'm a cis woman 💀
@burnttoast111 but thanks for proving my point though - if we're not using sugarcoated, simplistic, silly little terms to express our thoughts on feminism, y'all assume it's a man speaking. you are the problem 😊
Just as a counterpoint to one small part of the video where you mention how, "You don't really hear about people not being 'guys guys' or a 'boys boys'", I think that might just be a perspective thing, because growing up with three brothers, being a 'bro' was a MAJOR deal often coming with a similar (though obviously much more misogynistic) set of 'dos and don'ts' which where strictly socially enforced.
This 'bro code' (at least back when I was surrounded by kinda frat-y guys) had a similar, 'Don't cheat on other guys girls, don't put down your boys in front of girls, est' set of rules as the broad 'girls girl' code here, though with more of a explicit threat of violence for violation. (IE. If you betray or hurt your friends, you'll be in danger of being beaten.) Also, again, with a deeply sexist disregard of women as anything, but objects to be acquired, with cheating and betrayal in love being treated much more like an act of property theft rater then, well, hurting someone else. (Sort of a, 'This guy is bad and should be shunned, not because what he did was inherently hurtful and cruel, but because he is untrustworthy and will rob you.')
Its a bad and toxic mentality that lionizes domineering and violent behaviors towards women and frames male friendships as less mutually beneficial relationships and more diplomatic pacts based around not doing the 'natural' thing that guys 'are inherently going to do otherwise'. But it IS a thing... That should not exist.
I think that's a reeeeeally frustrating part about this conversation bc some women will try to use "there's no boy version of it so we need to shut this 'girl's girl' down completely" when that's just not true. These convos can be very interesting on a social/sociology level, and ppl wanting to stop the conversation just because they think the other genders (in other cases, races&etc) don't have the same concept/conversation is so annoying. (Completely tangential but ppl who do that remind me of ppl who think that having a critical conversation means "you're no fun" or some shit).
@@justherewatching30 I feel like its an issue of people trying to have a 'big picture' conversation while failing (understandably) to grasp the full scope of said picture since... Well its really big! That isn't to say, "Well no one really knows what they are talking about so lets not do anything." But just to emphases the importance of remembering that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence on its own.
Again though, NOT trying to argue with the point of the video or even really the section I was providing additional context to. Just I feel like its important to remember that we are all working with a limited perspective and even the BEST people talking about complex subjects should be treated as one part of a larger conversation.
And natch, I'm bias and talking primarily from my own limited perspective as a trans woman who grew up in a large family of boys in the US North East so my first hand understanding only really extends to the place and time I was able to observe things. I am no more (and probably a fair bit less) learned then anyone else talking about this stuff. :P
@@justherewatching30 The reason it’s got to go is because it’s oppressive. It demands that women fall in line with certain expectations, expectations inherently formed by white women with more power than any of the marginalized women who are moved to have more individual skepticism towards women- such as women abused by other women, or women who just don’t feel comfortable around other women due to trauma or just being lucky enough to have more gender diverse friend groups or what have you. At its core, the conversation is worthless because it misunderstands patriarchy to a point that it pretends men and women are monoliths with different experiences, rather than subjects who are treated differently within society.
Met a girl at uni that was my best friend turned bully that also had this kink of getting with other girl’s bf’s (due to lack of self esteem). She thought that i wasnt a girl’s girl because i hung out with my bf (who treated me great) instead of her and she told me that when we break up she will be the one that i will want to cry to. The opposite happened. Later it turned out she was really jealous of me and me having a loving bf so that’s why she was so horrible to me. Don’t let the fake girl’s girls fuck up ur other friendships and relationships. It’s just narcissism in disguise.
My first real boyfriend cheated on me with his best girl friend for three months straight. She knew the whole time and just didn't care. After we broke up, she hooked up with the next guy I had started dating.
Both of my ex's actions were awful, but there was no excuse for her actions either.
I will never tell a woman she should only be angry at the man.
Also, if you're a woman who sleeps with a man you know is already in a monogamous relationship, that automatically makes you not a girls' girl as well, imo. So in the same way that someone can criticize pick-me behaviour and not have that mean they are "unduly criticizing women," if i criticize someone sleeping with a man they know is taken, I'm not unduly criticizing her because she's a woman. Criticizing her behaviour doesn't make me or anyone else "not a girls' girl", yk?
Do you remember when pick me characters used to call their opponent a slut then proceed to sleep with their boyfriends?
100% right about being upset with someone who knowingly enables cheating
Unrelated, Tara's hair is looking ✨️fantastic✨️
Yay! Welcome to Mr. Ella! My feline was also mistaken for female. Thankfully, I insisted on taking him to the emergency vet when he showed signs of a kidney infection (less urgent for females). It was there that the emergency vet corrected us, where other regular vets had not!
Imagine my disappointment to learn that "girls' girl" doesn't mean "woman who is trying to attract other women." Also, obvious point, but whether or not to "blame the other woman" is circumstantial. I was the "other woman" once, but I was a freshman in hs, and he was a senior who had basically preyed on me using my need for validation, and I wasn't exactly in a position to say "no" to someone who I saw as the only human being capable of loving me. Unsurprisingly, he turned out to have this same pattern in all his other relationships.
This exact thing happened to me except the other way round. When I was 16, I had a boyfriend who was 18 and cheated on me with a 14 year old. The poor girl told me herself, and I could tell right off the batt that she had been manipulated by my boyfriend, as he had significant influence over her as a "cool older guy". I couldn't bring myself to be mad at her at all. We actually became really good friends after that
@@nikfiendluvr666 damn that's the age I was when it went down! I don't think the other girl ever knew about me since she went to a school a few hours away and we never crossed paths. Idk if he even fessed up to her about anything he did. She ended up dumping his ass way later though so he probably made the same mistake and actually got caught lmao
@@nikfiendluvr666 Also it's really sweet that you two became friends! It's commendable that you were able to see that she was young and manipulated and not hold that against her. There are so many people who would have held her just as responsible in spite of the age difference because of how uncharitably people view women.
Attract women in what way? You mean like friends
As a woman who has always been in larger male dominated spaces, it really sucks that most of the women I come across treat me as a threat than an ally. I'd be in a well established friend group well before they even met their partner, not doing anything but hanging out with these guys in that capacity, and yet new girlfriends would be so spiteful of me without exchanging a word. And they'd always have their friends to talk sh*t with. They'd never engage with me, ignore me completely, cut me off, and then complain/make fun of me afterwards. It's so common I get nervous now when a woman tries engaging me in those same group settings like "what? why? what does she want?" expecting a bucket of pig's blood to drop on my head any moment. I'd understand it if I was flirting or grabbing attention, but as I said a lot of the situations I'm just a part of the group, or on my own, but I get treated like an outsider by these women.
The kicker was how many of those guy friends would then want ME to reach out and fix things that I never broke. Or fix her to be someone she's not ("make her like video games" commonly). These women have active disdain being in the same room as me, and they're imagining us bonding over... what now?
You’re a pick me that’s why girls don’t like u tbh.
Meeting your male friend's GF is NERVE WRACKING like "She seems nice, the guys are pushing us to be friends because we're both girls, they're really cute together, oh god she's smiling at me is it a real smile or ???"
Yes!!! I've had so many women get really freaking weird or aggressive towards my presence around other men & it makes ZERO sense. I've been out in public at the playground with my kid, concerts, stores, just happen to stand NEAR a couple & watched the woman drag the guy off by the arm while shooting me the death glare. Like "okay, wtf is your problem? I'm just existing here." Or I walk away only to hear her spout off some rude, disparaging comment. I hated working as a waitress because women who came in with a guy were instantly rude or dismissive towards me. I'd hear the bf/ husbands ask "why are you acting like that?" so it was noticeable even to them. In my mind, I don't consider myself all that attractive, I dress modest, comfy & am a threat to absolutely no one. The way women act towards me makes it really hard to even make friends because of how they choose to act.
Support other girls unconditionally. YES GIRL COMMIT THAT WAR CRIME!! Also Omg Ella is precious
Tara, your hair and makeup looks fabulous. That pink colour for your lips/t-shirt are an absolutely perfect colour for you.
Great video, as always!
I was JUST about to say that her hair looks incredible!
Tara: "I have an announcement!"
Me: "Will we finally get to meet the cow?!"
Tara: "I have a cat. And it's cow print."
Me: * disappointed but also not disappointed *
personally i think girls girl is an amazing concept, and its meaning is still in conversation, so for some girls it will have different "rules" around it, but the core idea behind it is sisterhood and having each other's back, a thing that men have been doing all this time. so yeah, go out and be a girl's girl, and if you don't like some of the aspects it englobes we can always chat it up bc that's what is it about 💕
I just wanted to thank you for your amazing captions, I’m not sure I’ve ever watched a UA-cam video with captions as good as this
Mr. Ella! He's got very fitting print; it really is fate.
Not that I was expecting otherwise, but I'm glad you looped around to being a "girls' girl" as an important thing. Especially when we're talking about broad strokes the solidarity is absolutely necessary.
Your hair is looking exceptionally curly and bouncy this epi ❤❤
I had a friend that used to always compete with me for a guy’s attention. Didn’t think much of it while we were in college, but as soon as she tried doing that when I was married I cut her off completely. Come to find she dated my brother in law and was disappointed when she realized he wasn’t as nice to her as my husband was to me. Major red flag
Me, a nonbinary lesbian: “oh I’m a girl’s girl alright” 😂
Wonderful video, but Mr. Ella stole the show a bit, I feel like the ending footage added like 5 years to my life 🥲♥️
Dear Tara, I really enjoyed your take. I’d like to add that I think the tendency to put labels and definitions to traits or characteristics that we see on TikTok (mostly aimed at self-identification) feel like a way to virtue signal but also to categorize people further and erase nuance. Why would anyone care about being a girl’s girl? Why can’t we be angry when we want to be angry without slashing someone’s tires? Why must there always be an extreme that people think we belong to? I feel like we can’t have a conversation on the internet anymore because there is so much lack of nuance. I can be angry at the other woman without having internalized misogyny and seeing the situation in a balanced way. I don’t understand why the internet advocates for a witch hunt all the time.
It’s interesting and tragic that so many women can still only claim any power in their associations with other women through weaponizing their gender based on the higher standards set for women/girls. This was true when being a pick-me was seen as favourable to other women and girls, since it meant that the picked woman/girl held more power than others via her association with the power holders - men - and so was more desirable to be associated with. But being picked also meant putting down different aspects of other women/girls in order to elevate the patriarchal standard of a “good woman/girl”. This gave women free range to bully other women if they slept with a romantic partner as per the standards of the patriarchal good woman, not just because it was hurtful and unethical. It’s exactly the same now that women/girls are being encouraged to support each other. There’s still set criteria for what makes a “good woman/girl” and the push to embody her. Only things that have changed are that the standard is presumably set by women and girls instead of men and boys and this new perspective of women as "gender traitors", when betraying your gender was literally the only grab women could make for power for ages. So instead of the plethora of arguments anyone could make against Ariana’s behaviour, such as the impact of her influence as a hugely popular celebrity on the public in relation to her immoral behaviour; or how that behaviour really makes no sense, given her many long-term positive relationships with other women; or even just that cheating is wrong and she’s probably a crappy person for knowingly doing it more than once, it’s: “here’s the standard of a good woman set by other women and girls, and she’s not meeting the criteria, so she's betrayed all other women and therefore can’t sit with us ”. This weaponizes her gender based on a certain standard and keeps that standard higher for women than men. Some things really never change for women
This!!!!!!!!
As I’ve said, if this new femininity movement does not want to fail they need to stop upholding patriarchal standards.
@embroideredragdoll5911 It's not the new wave of feminism - I think that's what you meant anyway - it's old misogyny repackaged as "girls supporting girls". But I totally agree that should stop supporting patriarchy. It''s just hard to do when patriarchy is constantly invading feminist spaces and ideals and twisting women's positivity toward each other back into negativity based on men's perceptions of what women should be
Hey Tara, your hair looks REALLY pretty
I swear if I don't see a cow this time I'm going to go right off it!!!
Speaking as someone who messed up an important relationship by being insecure, a lot of the folks in these clips seem like they're trying to blame their insecurities on other people.
Worrying about who your partner is interacting with, or how much attention other people in your social circle are getting, can be shortcuts to making yourself miserable and poisoning your interactions with people you care about.
I always used "Girl's Girl" as a euphemism for "sapphic" 😅🤦🏻♀️ I had no clue cis women used it differently 😵💫😵💫😂😂
Your videos are always such a highlight of my day! You are so amazingly well spoken and your video production quality is always amazing!!!!
One of the things I've realised about the other woman thing is that its not just unethical to be the other woman, its almost always a garbage life choice for you.
I used to be pals with a woman who was involved with a married man and it was all drama all the time and made her very unhappy. So, like, lose lose. (And also lose for me because I had to take care of her when he was being a raging prick, which was all the time.)
Honestly as bad as this is, I wish it would have been what I observed. Instead I've seen it the other way, and it's disturbing.
Seen a milder case and a worse one, with all the blame and damage to the wife (very a much girl's girl) and kids, and everyone eventually clapping for the affair taking her place. Worked out great for her. 😐
..I guess those people I knew were just a whole lot better at cheating and lying. Ugh.
I hope the cow is doing well! And you too, I suppose Tara :)
I recently got ghosted by my now former best friend bc she kept getting mad that I wouldn’t just agree with her and everything she did bc recently she’s been making bad decisions and I try to be supportive but I’m not just going to tell you you’re right when you’re not. When you’re being self destructive & such. That’s not helpful to you.
What a beautifully done video! So nuanced, I’m excited to be able to share this with my partner. I feel like you concisely explained a lifetime of experiences that are hard to get across clearly to those around us who have not experienced that kind of social dynamic.
Also it's just like if relationship starts with cheating, what makes anyone think that person isn't going cheat on them too.
I feel like there is also a difference between feeling angry and blaming smb. You are allowed to feel however you are feeling, but how you act up on those feelings is another thing.
Good to see Funky Frog Bait mentioned, glad she's getting views, her stuff is awesome!
Im a 26 year old trans lesbian lady who mostly hangs out with similar folks and I'm realizing how little I truly understand about hetero dating. The fact you have to factor this weird battke of the sexes metagaming into everything, or else risk serious harm, is so foreign to me. I feel like Im actually learning a lot
Straight dating is effing 5D chess. Not only dating, but also navigating female friendships. I guess there’s a judgmental aspect to it but being friends with women who always wants male attention is annoying.
Dating culture has always sucked to be honest. Even courtly romances which are the most bearable still sucked.
It’d be nice if dating culture wasn’t so gendered but rather about what you like in a person. Not saying you have to date someone outside of your gender preference, just stop trying to appeal to men or women and start being more specific like trying to appeal to people who share your hobbies, you get better relationships out of that.
My ex boyfriend cheated on me. I caught him secretly texting with another girl, I didn't see much but it was a hidden communication that ended up to be more than it seemed to be. When I found out who this girl was and showed my best friend, first thing she said was "Oh, she's pretty though". Like that makes it better 🙄 and proceeded to say that it's not the other girl's fault even though she 100% knew we were in a relationship... Your video made me feel so heard for the first time in a while
2:53 Your hands are not orange, they’re ✨tender tangerine✨
I don't see orange or even a difference at all, looks like the rest of her skin color! Confused me!
I’ve always resented the notion that not enabling toxic behavior makes you “not a girls girl”. I’ve had this critique lobbed at me by some women I’m no longer friends with and it hurts because I’m very much a girls’ girl, just not someone who doesn’t call out when someone is making choices that are harmful to themselves or others, like, “Gee, I’m so sorry I don’t want you to do something self destructive, guess that makes me a horrible friend 🙄”. I will never be the type of friend (and I’m this way with guys too) that will enable behaviors that are harmful.
I think that depends on what you do, many people disguise abuse and toxic behaviour as just being helpful and not wanting people to make harmful choices to themselves and others, so, this can go either way.
@@bluester7177 I don't disagree, but I wouldn't say I've ever been abusive or toxic...I've called people out for making decisions that could genuinely put their safety, my safety or others' safety in jeopardy. I never say it in a mean or unhelpful way, but I feel it's the right thing to not enable someone to do something that causes harm.
Honestly as a queer person the amount of ownership or possessiveness straight people have over their partner downright baffles me.
I mean if I dating a guy I wouldn't monitor who he could be friends with and demand he can only be friends with girls because "what if he's into you" , the lack of trust in straight relationship is so normalized and is often directed towards women or the "other woman" rather than the guy who actually cheated.
it seems odd that self proclaimed girl’s girl will put other women down for not being like them, isn’t that the opposite of being a girl’s girl? to me it just seems like someone telling everyone else they’re a nice person, instead of just being nice
Exactly.
Okay on a side note, YOUR HAIR looks amazing! 😍