I think what annoys me the most is that Green Hill lost a hell of a lot of detail in Forces. Look at how lush and alive everything is in Generations and then look at Forces' Minecraft map
Triple-Q Part of that might have been intentional, what with the whole desert aesthetic. But it comes off as if the stage was an afterthought compared to the love letter that was Generations (and Mania).
Triple-Q I agree, 2.5D levels are easy to mess up and end up looking dead or boring, i consider Generations an example to follow, classic levels in that game look beautiful and lively.
Ikechi Ogbuagu I think that excuses the background, but the foreground where there's no sand also takes a huge hit. A lot of the 'Hills' the level is named after are now perfect squares, compared to generations where there were a lot more natural-looking deformities. Neither are realistic, but a suspense of disbelief is broken when landscapes are too geometrically perfect. It's pretty ugly and uninteresting. It's like Forces is trying to copy the Master System version of Green Hill.
I agree... I will admit that this game's classic isn't as fun without the broken spindash, but at least the game's still fun. That's all I legit want out of a sonic game, for it to be fun... Most of the other fans are just kind of a dick and shit on the new sonic games.
Generations has a wonky control scheme that works for the levels it's got (lots of freaky tricks and super-speed boosts, plus places where bouncing off something gives you an absurd amount of height *and* distance). I think Sonic 2 has some of the best controls of any game, but Generations is a fun as hell alt-universe experiment.
I never did like the spin dash in Generations. The problem isn't just that it's OP, it's that you _don't have a choice_ of how strong you want it to be. It wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if there were any option other than "entirely too fast."
Cameron Moore Agree there. I'd take Real Sonic's control scheme over "Classic" Sonic's any day, but I gotta admit Classic allows for some interesting playstyles that Real just doesn't. If they ported a true, mash-down-A-till-you're-charged spindash, that'd be a very nice improvement and add depth to the game.
+Kanjoos Lahookvinhaakvinhookvin Agreed! I was hoping they'd come closer to the actual classic mechanics, but hopes for that are - shall I say - _dashed._ Not that it matters anymore now that Sonic Mania exists. Sonic Team should just leave the classic stuff to Taxman, Whitehead, and Pagoda West. Another thing... It also really bothered me that they double-dipped on the 2D gameplay in Generations by making so much of modern Sonic's levels 2D as well. I love 2D platforming more than most, but it just wasn't good enough to justify how much of it there was. There wasn't an even balance of 2D to 3D. It just felt like a cop-out.
boring momentum that doesn't even let you go fast... plain map that doesn't even look cool... in a bad game itself... EXTREMELEY BROKEN SPEED WITH NO CAP!!! LUSH ENVIRONMENT THAT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE TONS OF HOURS SPENT IN!!! IN ONE OF THE GREATEST SONIC GAMES EVER MADE!!! Z O N G ! ! !
Clever pun there, m80. For those who didn't get it, Spring Yard Zone is a zone in Sonic 1 featuring a lot of - you guessed it - springs. Meanwhile, Green Hill appears to take place during Spring (the season), AND has a lot of springs (the objects) in Forces.
Sonic Forces seems to be very underwhelming at this point. I highly appreciate the video comparisons, the comments are very entertaining at times too. fug
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they added *invisible springs* everywhere for Classic Sonic's levels in Forces. Like, did the developers not believe the player was capable of fucking JUMPING? Do they think we honestly *don't know how to make our own fucking jumps in a Sonic game?!* I'm pretty sure there's even a hidden spring that *saves* you in the sewers from a death-pit in Ghost Town, like really Sonic Team? I made a mistake and should be punished for bad timing but instead you place an invisible spring THERE? TAKE THEM OUT, AND NEVER PUT THEM IN A SONIC GAME LIKE THIS EVER AGAIN!!!
+Autistic Fantasies You're right, I need to calm down, I overreacted. I just hate feeling belittled from my Entertainment Mediums, especially in Gaming.
If I had never played the sonic franchise and you told me that generations came after forces, I would’ve believed you but excuse that one quote from sonic forces-“haven’t seen you since generations “
Dude, if I had never heard of sonic the hedgehog before and you to!d me Sonic U leashed came out after Forces, I would've believed you without a doubt.
I’m seeing a lot of “SEGA gave you guys another sonic game, why don’t you guys like it? You all are assholes”. Am I supposed to like a 5/10 quality game?
"Sonic Forces you to play Green Hill again." But damn. SEGA created a lot of similar stages and stages' music of Green Hill to let players memorize it. There are so many of them. No lie. It's really overused. Even we know Green Hill is Sonic's home. SEGA : Nope, in Forces, that's Sand Hill.
"...Leave Classic Sonic in his own Dimension..." Modern Sonic at the end of Forces: "I'm sure we'll run into him again." You know what this means? Next Modern Sonic game will transport Modern Sonic into the Classic Dimension where Infinite is probably hiding out... Just wait. Its gonna happen.
This shit needs to end. From now on, they need to do a Classic Sonic game with old school 2D gameplay for those fans, & Modern Sonic game with FULL 3D gameplay, not 2.5D, not 3D with 2D every 5 or 6 levels or some shit, FULL 3D, that way fans will be a LOT more satisfied. There's no longer a need or a reason for both versions of the character to cross paths again. As a wise man once said, "IT'S TIME TO STOP!" It's hella obvious that they tried to cater to the 2D/Classic fans for the 25th anniversary, with the CS merch, Mania, & DEFINITELY an unneeded appearance in this game. In fact, if you take Shadow's apparent impact on the story, this would've been the perfect opportunity to make the other characters playable again. They did it in Mania, why not here? Instead we got a chunky nigga that adds NOTHING to the story other than a forced connection to Mania (no pun intended)
Forces is legitimately a subpar game at best and it amuses me that the people trying to defend it use “Stahp hating on it!!!1!1!!11!” (Also Classic’s music was absolutely terrible compared to what we got earlier this year)
Ghost Town is actually an alright song, but honestly the rest of the classic music in Forces is dull (Green Hill was atrocious). The soundtrack overall is very weak - especially when it followed the blessing that was Mania's soundtrack
Chaseoman I’ll agree on Ghost Town, it’s not that bad. But how do you from the beauty of Mania to the rear end of a Master System, bad J-Pop, and an Edgelord’s theme which somehow beats out Almost Dead
The compositions themselves are actually really good, it's just that they suffer from lacking instrumentation (if you could even call it that lol). Kinda what happened to Sonic 4, now that I think about it.
But we should all just be grateful and not point out the flaws of a super uninteresting and bland sonic game, especially after the amazing one we got literally 3 months before it came out
Frankly I'd be cool with more generation style classic sonic where the main platforming focus is less about mastering the physics and more about pulling off the jumps the right way. But I will admit that the genesis/mania physics are much better. Also that Sonic Forces classic sonic looks like a step back.
Francis-Olivier Toba yeah but generations classic sonic was good. It was sort of like dreamcast version with all that overpowered spin dash. Any way i suggest ditching him all together and give us morr playable characters.
Mania: "Let's hire creators who have proven experience with replicating the classic physics, and who have studied the level designs from the classic games!" Forces: "Let's mess up the physics that worked fine in Generations, and hire 3 people who have only worked on Lost World, for level design!"
I also feel Classic Sonic shouldn't have been in the game because he clashes with the darker tone and story. Green Hill Zone should've been in only one level, the first one, and the 29 other ones should've been brand new.
SatAM had a different design for Classic Sonic that fit with the art style of the show. CD doesn't have an edgelord as a villain not to mention a plot that is essentially about war with hellish landscapes.
SatAM, I can understand that because it's a bit more serious than the AoSTH (Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog) CD on the other hand, is just a standard sonic game with more focused on gameplay.
Sonic Forces' classic level design, from my view, has no reason to be like it is now, if proper monentum and Classic Sonic rules were applied. I won't go too deep but, all these springs and weirdly shaped slopes are there to most likley hide the fact that Classic Sonic has no monentum physics, let alone the original momentum physics. There is a boost pad before every steep hill or a loop making me believe that Classic Sonic was rushed in and since momentum takes time to code, they just went with scripting all the possible after effects of spindashing, dropdashing off of a slope etc.
I say that SEGA should leave Classic Sonic on one side and Modern on the other. They should create games separately for both Sonics and don't ever make cross-over games again (Only Generations was the best game for celebrating anniversary of Sonic). Also if they want to create 3D-type Classic Sonic game then they must make physics just like that of early classic games. Last thing is that Sonic Team should hire those people who played Sonic in past so that they won't make crappy level designs.
What happened to you, Classic Sonic? Why couldn’t Sonic Team just emulate the classic physics from Generations (you know, physics that worked)? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! Jesus, it’s like they don’t know how to improve upon shit so they just give us more shit to compensate.
you know what's even more sad they could've copied and pasted the physics code for classic as they have for most of the other stuff for classic but they didnt
Oblue 00 so they just made up different physics altogether instead of study those of Generations and replicate them as best as they could? I’m no coding genius, but I don’t think it would’ve been that hard.
They can, in fact. Lord knows which gameplay engine shenanigans they did between Gens, LW and Forces, but I am 99% sure that they reused most of Generations' code in Forces for Classic anyway and tried to change things up to try to mimic Mania more. I really don't see why would they waste time redoing what they did in 2011 already. Needless to say it was a pretty poor attempt. Hedgehog Engine is merely the rendering engine, the rest of the code is how the game works. I'm very familiar with this in Need for Speed and this case is no different. (EAGL is the rendering/animation engine used in FIFA 14 and NFS Carbon, for instance, while code is completely different between two games) It's simply integrated in a more direct manner, rather than having an entire basis for a game like Unreal or Unity or Cryengine.
Francis-Olivier Toba you did gain speed by rolling but it quickly diminished once you got to a flat surface or a less steep hill. But it worked in that game since it had boost.
0:27 sonic 4, and sonic advance were dimps titles. Besides advance did the classic physics extremely well compared to its counterparts(Not including mania)
I remember hearing from an interview that Sonic Forces was proposed to be a "straight-forward action game." That sort of theme does not fit Classic Sonic at all. All his inclusion in this game does is alienate the players who are here for Modern Sonic while also drawing (unfavorable) comparisons to Mania.
Thanks for making this. People think we are haters but to be honest we love sonic more than average and are will to say it's trash because we want better and deserve better after buying sonic for 25 years I think we deserve more respect than this. I've seen multiple videos showing this game done with one hand and the likes. Thanks again for spreading the light with great detail
Sonic forces me to be optimistic while seeing the game get torn apart and I realize that the game isn’t good. Oh, and concealed springs existed in other sonic games I’m pretty sure, but they definitely overdid it in forces.
I remember there is one other Sonic game that had concealed springs, but it was only for one stage. Can't think which game it was though. Haven't played Sonic in a while. I'm hoping to get my hands on Sonic Mania this Christmas and finally reunite with my childhood.
3&K had invisible springs on Angel Island, but they required displacing rocks by either pushing or breaking them. They lead to alternate paths or alcoves with goodies, and they were deliberately placed so they don't hold your hand, but reward exploration
Izuki 101 No cuz in an interview he said “we wanted to make a fast, running through experience without proper difficulty Which a lot of people will find fun”. He and Sonic are now officially out of touch with that interview of what a game is supposed to be. He is describing the mechanics of a story book movie that you pick and choose. Not the mechanics of an interactive game.
As a predominantly classic fan, I agree wholeheartedly. Even as part of the audience he was likely included to appeal to, IMO all classic Sonic does in Forces is drag down basically every aspect of the game. I'm left with the feeling that Sega/Sonic Team doesn't think modern Sonic can hold up a game on his own anymore (which I don't think is true in the first place; I think Unleashed and Colours prove that modern Sonic can hold his own very well when given the time to shine).
I dont really know why is classic sonic even in this game, like cmon we dont need him in modern universe, he already got the best newer sonic game about 3 months ago or so. He was pretty useless in sonic forces tho, like he had 6 levels and.. 1 goddamn boss fight and its just eggman/egg dragoon. Game wouldnt be nearly as bad if they took generations mechanics for idk drift that is on avatar and just removed classic sonic, like he was special for generations / sonics 20th anniversary but now every modern sonic game is an annicersary, cmon. And also why are wisps in this game, like it was special for sonic colors, and after all arent they aliens?
I like to think Sonic Team tries to be slightly different and if it works they do a victory dance and make sure that thing is in EVERY game. Colors was cool, time to force wisps into everything. Generations did good. Better make classic get in. Mario Oddesy is Atleast trying to be different and is doing great because of that
I really like how you criticize the levels and controls point by point instead of just yelling useless insults. These are the sorts of videos that Sega could actually get something out of watching. We need far more of this in the Sonic fandom, especially at the expense of unspecific flaming.
I actually think Sonic Advance was pretty good for physics. I also think by moving score away from time value it encourages a score-only playthrough of a level. Encouraging gameplay variety is good. Your video editor does not like rendering Sonic Generation's fast moments. Lastly, Sonic Force's Green Hill music is really ear-grating. The music guy probably had no idea how to use Genesis's instruments 100%.
Not gonna lie, kinda getting tired of Green Hill, at least Mario shows sections of 1-1 on occasion but Sonic is like "LOOK GUIZ, GREEN HILL ZONE!" I'd kill for Palmtree Panic, Angel Island Zone even Emerald Hill instead of Green Hill Zone. Green Hill Zone is nice and all but once you've played a gazillion times it gets old
Not to mention, as Classic Sonic, when you just run and don't roll; it is EXTREMELY slow. The game basically *forces* you to spindash or drop dash to get any speed. Seriously though! Compare 1:23 to 3:03.
Oh yeah I’m a immature little kid because all I’m doing is telling a dude that this other immature little kid who made this video is whining over a goddamn invisible spring.
I LOVE Classic Sonic, but I agree entirely. He's only there in Forces to fight the real villain at work - monotony. And also, I get the feeling from some weird, sloppy level areas, that they "weren't allowed to waste a single asset" in the engine, even when it contributes nothing to the game/levels whatsoever.
Okay 2 things: 1, have you considered using youtube captions for your videos? There's an option to turn them on and off. 2: The levels in this game were designed by complete noobs, which is why they're not as good as in generations. That kinda sucks, but I still have fun with this game (minus classic for the most part), so whatever.
NinjaSonic 102 I WOULD USE UA-cam ANNOTATIONS IF I COULD BUT THE FEATURE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN REMOVED. THEY STILL EXIST FOR OLDER VIDEOS BUT NO NEW VIDEOS HAVE ANNOTATIONS ANY MORE
We've had Green Hill about 5 times now, four of which were as a first level (Sonic 1, Sonic Generations, Sonic Mania, and now Sonic Forces). What's worse is that Mania teased Angel Island before teleporting the player away from it.
I feel that this video is good but it is beating a dead horse.Sonic Team can't do classic sonic justice. A better thing to compare between both games is which is more fun. The winner is still Generations of course
We should be glad that there are people who are willing to make mods for the Sonic games. Hopefully they'll do the same for forces. Because there are a LOT of things that the game needs
3:04 While this is true, I'm also fairly certain the loops in Generations are x1.5 bigger than the ones in Sonic 1 to Mania, meaning Sonic has more surface he must climb and lose speed to. At least I think that's the reason he slows down like that.
At this point, Sega should just go back to making new interesting gameplay for modern sonic and stop catering to classic fans if they can't do classic physics right. Otherwise classic fans will nitpick & bitch about every single missing detail and it's getting old. Classic fans had 5-6 games with classic sonic elements since Sonic 4 or Colors. Now they should just focus on new material for sonic and make sure the quality is amazing so they won't have to rely on nostalgia ever again.
To me, Green Hill in Generations looked like a true modern take on it, but Forces' design makes it look far closer to the original games, and I'd say makes it look much more bland as a result. The physics in Forces in terms of slopes and the like, I think are just a tad better than Generations (to my memory), but it doesn't matter in Forces anyway because the level design is so flat and boring.
I remember when I first saw that classic Sonic was going to be in Forces, I said "I sure hope they fix the movement physics for classic Sonic. It just didn't feel right in Generations." Not only did they not improve it, *they somehow fucked it up even more.* I think it's about time for Sonic Team to retire and let Christian Whitehead, Taxman, and Pagoda West become the new Sonic Team.
"See Sonic Team? This is how Modern Sonic should be: Proper Momentum Physics, fluid controls, a mix of speed and platforming, no boring boost spam, no overly scripted sequences to give the illusion of spectacle, speed as the reward for doing well not just given to the player at the push of a button without having to work for it, and no double boost pads on every loop making it impossible to backtrack through a section because the level designers want you to play the game in only one way." There. Fixed that for you
Ok, this is an opinion, if you got a problem with it please do not lash against me or I will be forced to take action against you I would agree at some points Classic Sonic in Forces wasn’t the best, but it wasn’t bad Each level had a unique somewhat 8/16-bit theme, the drop dash was helpful, and level design was at least ok Plus, you mentioned Classic doesn’t get a jump boost from enemies if he jumps from below them? Yeah that’s natural! It makes sense you would bounce off an enemy from the top and not the bottom Also, the invisible spring detail was overused here, yes there everywhere we get it, but let me ask, if the springs weren’t there at all, or were visible but only used near holes, how would you know to jump in certain places ( if you were playing the level for the first time ) You wouldn’t My last problem with this video is how you compared EVERYTHING WITH CLASSIC SONIC TO GENERATIONS AND SONIC 1 We get it both are great games But just because classic was great in them doesn’t mean that if classic from Forces isn’t good Yeah it’s not the same but nothing in this game should perfectly relate to Generations, Colors, 1, 2, 3, &K, etc. Ok I’m done Again, please note this is an opinion, spam me with hate and things will get hostile
I think a lot of this hate stems from Sonic Mania being amazing. After that beautifully well done momentum-based love letter of a game, we get this, which feels a bit shoehorned in.
The invisible springs are in Sonic CD as well, they aren't new... although they're actually well placed in that game and make sense Edit: Also apparently they're in Sonic 3&K, Sonic 2 and Mania, so basically every classic sonic game other than the first one
While many 'fans' criticize Sonic Teams for not exactly emulating Sonic's Genesis eras physics and style I absolutely loved Sonic Forces and Generations because how downright fun they are. Im not expecting nor scouring every Sonic game for gliches and errors(most of which probably because the pressure the get to improve their past work instead of pushing the franchise foreward). I don't lose my crap everytime the momentum in a slope doesn't feel as good as it was years ago and I don't bash Sonic for trying to reinvent himself or try something new because i appreciate the fact that Sonic Team always aims for fans satisfaction in new content despite content backlash. Sonic Team wants to please fans so much to even fulfill fans desire to give Sonic a gun and create one of Sonics most memorable characters. If anything Sonic's problem isn't that hes not what he used to be but that fans refuse to let him grow. Forces was an awesome game and I can't wait to see what Sonic Team does next. I think they should for once relieve themselves of fan induced pressure and not try as hard tobplease us. Yes fanbase is the foundation of a videogame franchise but considering fan pressure and backlash is what began to send Sonic into a hit-or-miss depression Sonic Team should really focus on Sonic for once.
5:50 Agreed. We at least know they can do boost well enough because Modern Sonic is... ONCE AGAIN, the big fun part of Forces. Egg Gate and Network Terminal were damn good and I hope they alongside most of Unleashed's day stages are the template for the next 3D outing.
Honestly they could have lifted the entire fucking set of levels from Generations and I'd be happy. I can't even complain about Generations, that was the first time sidescroller Sonic was fun, and the first time in a while where 3D Sonic was a joy.
Not that you would've shown the footage afterwards or anything, but I was internally screaming when you didn't jump in the warp ring at the end of the video.
4:53 Actually, both of these properties are in Sonic Forces. In terms of bounce height, it's easy to test at the beginning of Ghost Town with the three ring boxes on the lower path at the first drop and in Iron Fortress during the autoscrolling section if you take the higher paths and jump on the missile launchers or ring boxes from above. Sonic Team improved a lot of things from Generations but took away the most important things in the process and I think that's why everyone says Forces' version of Classic Sonic is dogshit.
I bet that back in 1990 gamers were thinking that in 27 years time there'd be absolutely amazing new versions of the newly released game Sonic The Hedgehog to play. THEY WERE WRONG, THEY WERE ALL WRONG.
Well, the I agree with the invisible spring part since at some parts it's really telling us that the developer thinks that we are not capable of making small and easy jumps in most of the level and sometimes the invisible spring saves you with is kind of annoying at some point because it should teach the player that at some parts there are consequences and that we will remember what to do when we get to the section. But, the invisible spring mechanic would've been good if they used it in some secret parts to reward the player for finding the right area to get to a certain part of the level. Pretty much, the level design is really simple and easy, which they should put in some parts of the level challenging for players that love having challenges to get by to make gameplay more entertaining and fun. They should extend the levels more so that the player wouldn't get through the level and go "Oh, that's all?". Because you can finish most of the levels in several seconds. So, if they put in parts for each players personality (like, challenge gameplay, platforming sections, ect.) then the gameplay would be more fun to go back to and make it worth playing instead of playing the game in a few hours. (I even beat the game in 5 hours in my first blind gameplay! But, I did enjoy the game.) They should've given Infinite more of a backstory instead of making him like a child. (Such as saying he's not weak repeatedly sounding like he was whining) Well, there's more that I wanted to say, but I didn't want to bore you all out and get on with your lives and not wasting it all by reading a really long comment. But, thank you for reading this and have a wonderful day!
Honestly, I'm not too sure the point of Classic Sonic in Forces. I get that the Phantom Ruby warped him to the Modern timeline, but what did he really do? He didn't work alongside Modern Sonic once until the very end. I'm sure you could've cut out the Classic Sonic stages and it would've made no difference to the story. I mean shouldn't he have a slightly bigger connection since the ruby came from his dimension?
I also had that funny feeling when I first saw classic sonic in the trailer. Everything was fine and then I just had this daunting feeling come out of nowhere when he popped up. I don’t even mind classic. Something just told me something is wrong.
Tbh, I really don't like the classic Sonic gameplay at all in Sonic Forces. Custom character levels: AMAZING. Modern Sonic levels: OUTSTANDING. Classic Sonic levels: a total letdown. The Sonic generations mechanics were way better, they should've just gave classic Sonic the Sonic generations mechanics, then it probably would've been hunky dory and all fine. Sonic Forces is my favorite game in the series, but it has the worst classic Sonic gameplay. One thing that irritates me the most was that you don't last long underwater because when I played the chemical plant level as classic Sonic, I was literally underwater for like 10 seconds or less and the timer already started going down
Another thing that really gets me about Sonic Forces are the rings. Why the fuck are you allowed to collected about 500-600 in one stage if there are no lives in the game? You lose more than you collected when hit, so what's the difference from giving one ring for the whole stage? Getting 100 rings felt like a reward in the old games. The highest amount of rings in a stage you could collect is about 300 in Unleshed (PS3), and that's only because the absurd ring magnetism when you boost, which was made even more absurd with Forces
Guys, the invisible springs are not there for the new players. It's something to avoid for the old players (except in some cases where you need them to get to the higher route instead of jumping over like you'd expect. ) It Really Is A Matter Of What Kind Of Game You See Forces As. I see it as a fast-paced game you can ( and imho Should )speedrun to make even faster. Take Ghost Town For Instance. Notice all of those slopes you encounter and wish to dropdash/spindash down and go flying into the air, only one of them or so NOT turned into an underwhelming experience at the hand of a seemingly inappropriately - placed spring at the 90 degree facing edge of the slope. If You Go Through The Entire Stage Using All of Those Springs While Going For The Highest Path You Will Not Make It Under a Minute's Length in time. But There Has To Be A Way To Beat It In Under a Minute if there's a Mission For It, Right? Correct. If you time it right, there's an odd way that doesn't seem like it'd work but does method to jumping over the parts of the ramp with the spring on the end and getting through in less time. But even after avoiding all unavoidable springs you still take just long enough to not be under a minute. Why? That's because the hidden spring near the end of the highest route you can jump over instead of walk into? You actually have to use that one to get to the highest-highest route section that's only near the end of the level to get through at the highest speed you can for that section. Trust me, figuring it out was hell but it was so rewarding. I played via the nintendo switch edition, I don't know it higher framerates introduce problems regarding framerate being too high or reaction time not being fast enough etc. but it's really fun and I am very glad I own this game and can take as long as I want to figure out all of the odds and ends to a more fulfilling gameplay. It's all there, you just gotta figure out how to do it right.
The invisible springs also made an appearance in Sonic 3, but I can guarantee that there wasn't any invisible spring infestations in that game. In fact, in my opinion, those invisible springs were placed more conveniently than the Sonic Forces ones.
I think what annoys me the most is that Green Hill lost a hell of a lot of detail in Forces. Look at how lush and alive everything is in Generations and then look at Forces' Minecraft map
Triple-Q Part of that might have been intentional, what with the whole desert aesthetic. But it comes off as if the stage was an afterthought compared to the love letter that was Generations (and Mania).
It feels more like Sonic Team's first attempt at using Mario Maker.
Triple-Q I agree, 2.5D levels are easy to mess up and end up looking dead or boring, i consider Generations an example to follow, classic levels in that game look beautiful and lively.
Ikechi Ogbuagu
I think that excuses the background, but the foreground where there's no sand also takes a huge hit. A lot of the 'Hills' the level is named after are now perfect squares, compared to generations where there were a lot more natural-looking deformities. Neither are realistic, but a suspense of disbelief is broken when landscapes are too geometrically perfect. It's pretty ugly and uninteresting. It's like Forces is trying to copy the Master System version of Green Hill.
Uhmm the generations green hill was also bland
The spin dash was super broken in Generations but honestly that's what made the stages so fun, for me at least
I agree... I will admit that this game's classic isn't as fun without the broken spindash, but at least the game's still fun. That's all I legit want out of a sonic game, for it to be fun... Most of the other fans are just kind of a dick and shit on the new sonic games.
Generations has a wonky control scheme that works for the levels it's got (lots of freaky tricks and super-speed boosts, plus places where bouncing off something gives you an absurd amount of height *and* distance). I think Sonic 2 has some of the best controls of any game, but Generations is a fun as hell alt-universe experiment.
I never did like the spin dash in Generations. The problem isn't just that it's OP, it's that you _don't have a choice_ of how strong you want it to be. It wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if there were any option other than "entirely too fast."
Cameron Moore Agree there. I'd take Real Sonic's control scheme over "Classic" Sonic's any day, but I gotta admit Classic allows for some interesting playstyles that Real just doesn't. If they ported a true, mash-down-A-till-you're-charged spindash, that'd be a very nice improvement and add depth to the game.
+Kanjoos Lahookvinhaakvinhookvin
Agreed! I was hoping they'd come closer to the actual classic mechanics, but hopes for that are - shall I say - _dashed._
Not that it matters anymore now that Sonic Mania exists. Sonic Team should just leave the classic stuff to Taxman, Whitehead, and Pagoda West.
Another thing... It also really bothered me that they double-dipped on the 2D gameplay in Generations by making so much of modern Sonic's levels 2D as well. I love 2D platforming more than most, but it just wasn't good enough to justify how much of it there was. There wasn't an even balance of 2D to 3D. It just felt like a cop-out.
The Virgin Sand Hill VS The Chad Green Hill
boring momentum that doesn't even let you go fast...
plain map that doesn't even look cool...
in a bad game itself...
EXTREMELEY BROKEN SPEED WITH NO CAP!!!
LUSH ENVIRONMENT THAT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE TONS OF HOURS SPENT IN!!!
IN ONE OF THE GREATEST SONIC GAMES EVER MADE!!!
Z O N G ! ! !
This is before the meme became popular
Tfw green hill becomes literal spring yard zone
Green Hill's looking a lot more like Spring Yard right now.
Clever pun there, m80.
For those who didn't get it, Spring Yard Zone is a zone in Sonic 1 featuring a lot of - you guessed it - springs. Meanwhile, Green Hill appears to take place during Spring (the season), AND has a lot of springs (the objects) in Forces.
Sonic Forces seems to be very underwhelming at this point. I highly appreciate the video comparisons, the comments are very entertaining at times too.
fug
Yeah, 'Underwhelming' is the word I'd use to describe Forces. On its own it's... Ok... but it could have, and should have, been much better.
Sonic Forces is better then Mania
... I highly doubt that.
I dont!
GoombaStomper4 and SmashFan9 I know its a joke but
*NO*
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they added *invisible springs* everywhere for Classic Sonic's levels in Forces. Like, did the developers not believe the player was capable of fucking JUMPING? Do they think we honestly *don't know how to make our own fucking jumps in a Sonic game?!* I'm pretty sure there's even a hidden spring that *saves* you in the sewers from a death-pit in Ghost Town, like really Sonic Team? I made a mistake and should be punished for bad timing but instead you place an invisible spring THERE? TAKE THEM OUT, AND NEVER PUT THEM IN A SONIC GAME LIKE THIS EVER AGAIN!!!
Those hidden springs are for IGN, since they are bad at Sonic game.
+Autistic Fantasies You're right, I need to calm down, I overreacted. I just hate feeling belittled from my Entertainment Mediums, especially in Gaming.
Ghost town is first stage. It doesn't make sense in other stages besides maybe green Hill since it is the second stage
Dirty Dan green hill is the 10th stage you would know how to jump in a platformer now. At least I hope
There are no Classic Sonic stages between Ghost Town and Green Hill.
If I had never played the sonic franchise and you told me that generations came after forces, I would’ve believed you
but excuse that one quote from sonic forces-“haven’t seen you since generations “
LegacyHyper "its been generations since ive seen you"
Its been a long time since youve seen yourself TWICE sonic? Are you okay?
i dunno man if sonic is ok, but i hope they can make another fun and exciting sonic game again ):
Dude, if I had never heard of sonic the hedgehog before and you to!d me Sonic U leashed came out after Forces, I would've believed you without a doubt.
I’m seeing a lot of “SEGA gave you guys another sonic game, why don’t you guys like it? You all are assholes”.
Am I supposed to like a 5/10 quality game?
Vegito Best not to even respond to stupidity..
keith mcginnis ...i dont think you understood my comment
Yes
5/10 is pretty generous for forces ngl
This aged like fine wine lol
"Sonic Forces you to play Green Hill again."
But damn. SEGA created a lot of similar stages and stages' music of Green Hill to let players memorize it. There are so many of them. No lie. It's really overused. Even we know Green Hill is Sonic's home.
SEGA : Nope, in Forces, that's Sand Hill.
I'm Just Kidding Don't Judge Me At least something new...
Yeah, but still. A little bit annoying.
But I don't hate it.
Isnt Sonic home emerald town?
So it’s green hill but dirty?
Sega: well yes and no
0:19 WHY DOESN’T SONIC BOUNCE OFF ENEMIES???? WHAT’S THE POINT OFF HAVING THE TWO ENEMIES LINED UP LIKE THAT YET I CANT BOUNCE OFF ENEMIES???
don't you have to hold the jump button to bounce?
When you jump onto them from above, you bounce iirc
"...Leave Classic Sonic in his own Dimension..."
Modern Sonic at the end of Forces: "I'm sure we'll run into him again."
You know what this means? Next Modern Sonic game will transport Modern Sonic into the Classic Dimension where Infinite is probably hiding out... Just wait. Its gonna happen.
I can't wait until sonic team forces modern sonic into mania 2.
This shit needs to end. From now on, they need to do a Classic Sonic game with old school 2D gameplay for those fans, & Modern Sonic game with FULL 3D gameplay, not 2.5D, not 3D with 2D every 5 or 6 levels or some shit, FULL 3D, that way fans will be a LOT more satisfied. There's no longer a need or a reason for both versions of the character to cross paths again. As a wise man once said, "IT'S TIME TO STOP!" It's hella obvious that they tried to cater to the 2D/Classic fans for the 25th anniversary, with the CS merch, Mania, & DEFINITELY an unneeded appearance in this game. In fact, if you take Shadow's apparent impact on the story, this would've been the perfect opportunity to make the other characters playable again. They did it in Mania, why not here? Instead we got a chunky nigga that adds NOTHING to the story other than a forced connection to Mania (no pun intended)
CrashNigga '95 wow, I expected rants, got wise words. You are honestly right in every way.
@@themenacingsloth nuff said.
If modern was put into classic's world, then maybe it would play like sonic rush?
Forces is legitimately a subpar game at best and it amuses me that the people trying to defend it use “Stahp hating on it!!!1!1!!11!”
(Also Classic’s music was absolutely terrible compared to what we got earlier this year)
Ghost Town is actually an alright song, but honestly the rest of the classic music in Forces is dull (Green Hill was atrocious). The soundtrack overall is very weak - especially when it followed the blessing that was Mania's soundtrack
Chaseoman I’ll agree on Ghost Town, it’s not that bad. But how do you from the beauty of Mania to the rear end of a Master System, bad J-Pop, and an Edgelord’s theme which somehow beats out Almost Dead
I actually like all of the classic music in this game.
Except for most of the beginning of Iron Fortress.
The compositions themselves are actually really good, it's just that they suffer from lacking instrumentation (if you could even call it that lol). Kinda what happened to Sonic 4, now that I think about it.
But we should all just be grateful and not point out the flaws of a super uninteresting and bland sonic game, especially after the amazing one we got literally 3 months before it came out
Bouncepads vs Invisible Springs
(Sonic Voice) B-bounce pads???
Khalil Vennie B O U N C E P A D
BOUNCE PAD BOUNCE PAD BOUNCE PAD
Skipped this game and never looked back.
Markell Hawthorne good choice.
Skipped all Sonic games since Sonic Heroes and never looked back
Leisli damn
not even to gens?
Only half of unleashed was good.
BlackRaveBow still a pretty good half
Global warming is real, even on Sonic's Earth, apparently.
Green hill, Desert hill, and now Underwater hill.
Can we have a level that isn't green hill lol
@ Not Evan: I know. Read the captions. lol. It's "heavy desertification" caused by Eggman's industries.
3:09 spin dash is so overpowered it broke the video for a few seconds
Frankly I'd be cool with more generation style classic sonic where the main platforming focus is less about mastering the physics and more about pulling off the jumps the right way. But I will admit that the genesis/mania physics are much better. Also that Sonic Forces classic sonic looks like a step back.
Francis-Olivier Toba yeah but generations classic sonic was good. It was sort of like dreamcast version with all that overpowered spin dash. Any way i suggest ditching him all together and give us morr playable characters.
Mania: "Let's hire creators who have proven experience with replicating the classic physics, and who have studied the level designs from the classic games!"
Forces: "Let's mess up the physics that worked fine in Generations, and hire 3 people who have only worked on Lost World, for level design!"
*3 people, one of which has only worked on Lost World, and the other two having not designed levels for a sonic game before
Viewtiful Z Apparently not even having played a sonic game before
I also feel Classic Sonic shouldn't have been in the game because he clashes with the darker tone and story.
Green Hill Zone should've been in only one level, the first one, and the 29 other ones should've been brand new.
+Jamie Grabow
_Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ _CD_ and _Sonic_ _the_ _Hedgehog_ (The Saturday Morning Cartoon Show) would like to have a word with you.
SatAM had a different design for Classic Sonic that fit with the art style of the show.
CD doesn't have an edgelord as a villain not to mention a plot that is essentially about war with hellish landscapes.
To be fair, even the game finds it hard to take itself seriously at times.
the game isn't even serious
they try to be serious but failed horribly
SatAM, I can understand that because it's a bit more serious than the AoSTH (Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog)
CD on the other hand, is just a standard sonic game with more focused on gameplay.
Sonic Forces' classic level design, from my view, has no reason to be like it is now, if proper monentum and Classic Sonic rules were applied. I won't go too deep but, all these springs and weirdly shaped slopes are there to most likley hide the fact that Classic Sonic has no monentum physics, let alone the original momentum physics. There is a boost pad before every steep hill or a loop making me believe that Classic Sonic was rushed in and since momentum takes time to code, they just went with scripting all the possible after effects of spindashing, dropdashing off of a slope etc.
I say that SEGA should leave Classic Sonic on one side and Modern on the other. They should create games separately for both Sonics and don't ever make cross-over games again (Only Generations was the best game for celebrating anniversary of Sonic). Also if they want to create 3D-type Classic Sonic game then they must make physics just like that of early classic games. Last thing is that Sonic Team should hire those people who played Sonic in past so that they won't make crappy level designs.
ABHMughal back to making handhelds. Classic fot handhelds and modern for console.
Oh wait.....
"Hey, Sonic! Enjoy your future! It's gonna be great!"
Could you just imagine a fully-3D Sonic 3D Blast?
oh wait that's srb2 lol
What happened to you, Classic Sonic? Why couldn’t Sonic Team just emulate the classic physics from Generations (you know, physics that worked)? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! Jesus, it’s like they don’t know how to improve upon shit so they just give us more shit to compensate.
you know what's even more sad
they could've copied and pasted the physics code for classic as they have for most of the other stuff for classic but they didnt
xan1242 exactly.
xan1242 they can't copy and paste code since its a different engine i believe
Oblue 00 so they just made up different physics altogether instead of study those of Generations and replicate them as best as they could? I’m no coding genius, but I don’t think it would’ve been that hard.
They can, in fact. Lord knows which gameplay engine shenanigans they did between Gens, LW and Forces, but I am 99% sure that they reused most of Generations' code in Forces for Classic anyway and tried to change things up to try to mimic Mania more. I really don't see why would they waste time redoing what they did in 2011 already.
Needless to say it was a pretty poor attempt.
Hedgehog Engine is merely the rendering engine, the rest of the code is how the game works. I'm very familiar with this in Need for Speed and this case is no different. (EAGL is the rendering/animation engine used in FIFA 14 and NFS Carbon, for instance, while code is completely different between two games)
It's simply integrated in a more direct manner, rather than having an entire basis for a game like Unreal or Unity or Cryengine.
Wasn’t Advance really close to the classic physics ?
Sam Moisture IT WAS CLOSER THAN OTHER ATTEMPTS SURE ALSO I ONLY JUST REALISED SONIC ADVANCE WAS PROBABLY MORE DIMPS THAN SONIC TEAM
Sam Moisture they fucked with the rolling physics but it's a good attempt
How do they keep fucking up the rolling physics? It's not that hard! I think even Rush might have gotten it right.
Francis-Olivier Toba you did gain speed by rolling but it quickly diminished once you got to a flat surface or a less steep hill. But it worked in that game since it had boost.
Yuji kaka did help direct the first 2 advance games.
0:27 sonic 4, and sonic advance were dimps titles. Besides advance did the classic physics extremely well compared to its counterparts(Not including mania)
I remember hearing from an interview that Sonic Forces was proposed to be a "straight-forward action game." That sort of theme does not fit Classic Sonic at all. All his inclusion in this game does is alienate the players who are here for Modern Sonic while also drawing (unfavorable) comparisons to Mania.
WOW I LOVE HOW _EVERYTHING'S_ IN CAPS, IT MAKES THE TEXT SO EASY TO READ AND DOES NOT AT ALL MAKE ME WANT TO SCREAM AT ALL!!!1!11111
I have a feeling that was deliberate, lolz, unless his computer was stuck on Caps Lock.
The Invisible Springs are probably there to break your flow when speedrunning, since they kill all your momentum.
Khalifa AlTaee Running straight into a wall also kills momentum.
fuck momentum, their just springs.
Ikechi Ogbuagu Boy, if only we could jump, right?
Black Pants That's exactly his point. Why add springs to kill your momentum when walls do the exact same thing if you mess up your jumps?
Ikechi Ogbuagu but springs kills even more momentum
Thanks for making this. People think we are haters but to be honest we love sonic more than average and are will to say it's trash because we want better and deserve better after buying sonic for 25 years I think we deserve more respect than this. I've seen multiple videos showing this game done with one hand and the likes. Thanks again for spreading the light with great detail
Sonic forces me to be optimistic while seeing the game get torn apart and I realize that the game isn’t good. Oh, and concealed springs existed in other sonic games I’m pretty sure, but they definitely overdid it in forces.
I remember there is one other Sonic game that had concealed springs, but it was only for one stage. Can't think which game it was though. Haven't played Sonic in a while. I'm hoping to get my hands on Sonic Mania this Christmas and finally reunite with my childhood.
Outside of Lost World, invisible springs weren't a thing...
Yes, totally not a thing.
SonicmaniaVideos Every classic game had them.
3&K had invisible springs on Angel Island, but they required displacing rocks by either pushing or breaking them. They lead to alternate paths or alcoves with goodies, and they were deliberately placed so they don't hold your hand, but reward exploration
SEGA Forces Sonic Team to rush their games yet again
Aw man, you should have also used the Mania version.
the sad part is that sonic team couldn't replicate what they did in the 90's in 2017
Generations literally looks better and has more detail than Forces
Why didn't they cancel this game, did they test it? Did they think we'd love this? Does Izuka know what the developers are doing?
Izuki 101 No cuz in an interview he said “we wanted to make a fast, running through experience without proper difficulty Which a lot of people will find fun”.
He and Sonic are now officially out of touch with that interview of what a game is supposed to be. He is describing the mechanics of a story book movie that you pick and choose. Not the mechanics of an interactive game.
0:16. sonic 3 and knuckles had invisible springs and even mania has them.
fusionfrost 9358 but did they have them as a replacement for jumping
sometimes. but not nearly as often as forces.
If they were, wouldn't they be for areas you literally can't reach without them anyway? At that point it would just be part of the level layout.
Rather than having simple platforming, particularly in Mania's case, which is also rather fickle with some of these springs?
SonicmaniaVideos i think in angel island there is one actually. If i remember correctly.
sonic forces you to spell despite right 0:25
But let's be honest everyone, Sonic Adventure 2 has the best green hill
Nah
Classic sonic did not need to be in forces. Period.
As a predominantly classic fan, I agree wholeheartedly. Even as part of the audience he was likely included to appeal to, IMO all classic Sonic does in Forces is drag down basically every aspect of the game. I'm left with the feeling that Sega/Sonic Team doesn't think modern Sonic can hold up a game on his own anymore (which I don't think is true in the first place; I think Unleashed and Colours prove that modern Sonic can hold his own very well when given the time to shine).
I dont really know why is classic sonic even in this game, like cmon we dont need him in modern universe, he already got the best newer sonic game about 3 months ago or so. He was pretty useless in sonic forces tho, like he had 6 levels and.. 1 goddamn boss fight and its just eggman/egg dragoon. Game wouldnt be nearly as bad if they took generations mechanics for idk drift that is on avatar and just removed classic sonic, like he was special for generations / sonics 20th anniversary but now every modern sonic game is an annicersary, cmon. And also why are wisps in this game, like it was special for sonic colors, and after all arent they aliens?
I like to think Sonic Team tries to be slightly different and if it works they do a victory dance and make sure that thing is in EVERY game. Colors was cool, time to force wisps into everything. Generations did good. Better make classic get in. Mario Oddesy is Atleast trying to be different and is doing great because of that
Hell, we don't even need a Modern or classic universe. Sonic's world should just be Sonic's world. A singular entity. Why split them!?
I meant like past and present.
Afú just needed to vent.
I'm ok with a different universe's, i can forget all the 3d sonic bullshit stories and shitty writing.
I really like how you criticize the levels and controls point by point instead of just yelling useless insults. These are the sorts of videos that Sega could actually get something out of watching.
We need far more of this in the Sonic fandom, especially at the expense of unspecific flaming.
I actually think Sonic Advance was pretty good for physics. I also think by moving score away from time value it encourages a score-only playthrough of a level. Encouraging gameplay variety is good.
Your video editor does not like rendering Sonic Generation's fast moments.
Lastly, Sonic Force's Green Hill music is really ear-grating. The music guy probably had no idea how to use Genesis's instruments 100%.
Sonic Team: We dont know how to realistics physics like we did 25 years ago with limited hardware
Fans: Easy pissy
There was invisible springs in hidden palace zone of sonic 3K
At least it works because of the physics
Not gonna lie, kinda getting tired of Green Hill, at least Mario shows sections of 1-1 on occasion but Sonic is like "LOOK GUIZ, GREEN HILL ZONE!" I'd kill for Palmtree Panic, Angel Island Zone even Emerald Hill instead of Green Hill Zone. Green Hill Zone is nice and all but once you've played a gazillion times it gets old
Sonic Forces is just a WAY weaker version of Sonic Generations but with OCs. Generations >>>> Forces
Not to mention, as Classic Sonic, when you just run and don't roll; it is EXTREMELY slow. The game basically *forces* you to spindash or drop dash to get any speed. Seriously though! Compare 1:23 to 3:03.
*_WHY ARE YOU TYPING IN CAPS FOR THESE VIDEOS_*
Because he's a fucking idiot.
Caleb Montes Stop it, get some help.
Oh yeah I’m a immature little kid because all I’m doing is telling a dude that this other immature little kid who made this video is whining over a goddamn invisible spring.
There's a difference between complaining and whining about something.
I LOVE Classic Sonic, but I agree entirely.
He's only there in Forces to fight the real villain at work - monotony. And also, I get the feeling from some weird, sloppy level areas, that they "weren't allowed to waste a single asset" in the engine, even when it contributes nothing to the game/levels whatsoever.
Reading text zone
People loved green hill so much that SEGA put green hill inside of green hill.
im glad someone still remembers sirronlionheart in 2017
Did your caps lock key get stuck or something
Sonic Advance had a great physics lol.
SupaGoGoMan, I was wondering what you thought of Sonic Rush? It's one of my favorites.
Okay 2 things: 1, have you considered using youtube captions for your videos? There's an option to turn them on and off. 2: The levels in this game were designed by complete noobs, which is why they're not as good as in generations. That kinda sucks, but I still have fun with this game (minus classic for the most part), so whatever.
NinjaSonic 102 I WOULD USE UA-cam ANNOTATIONS IF I COULD BUT THE FEATURE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN REMOVED. THEY STILL EXIST FOR OLDER VIDEOS BUT NO NEW VIDEOS HAVE ANNOTATIONS ANY MORE
I know, that's why I suggested captions. I really liked the annotations too...
We've had Green Hill about 5 times now, four of which were as a first level (Sonic 1, Sonic Generations, Sonic Mania, and now Sonic Forces). What's worse is that Mania teased Angel Island before teleporting the player away from it.
I feel that this video is good but it is beating a dead horse.Sonic Team can't do classic sonic justice. A better thing to compare between both games is which is more fun. The winner is still Generations of course
We should be glad that there are people who are willing to make mods for the Sonic games. Hopefully they'll do the same for forces. Because there are a LOT of things that the game needs
Look at Sonic 06.
Oh wait...
Sonic CD has invisible springs tho.
not behind like every ledge or pit like this game tho
It was also infamous for it and still gets it's fair share of shit from fans.
mmkthecoolest yeah it does I remember
Sonic CD gets plenty of hate, too
I still think it's the easiest of the classic games, which is a plus for me.
3:04
While this is true, I'm also fairly certain the loops in Generations are x1.5 bigger than the ones in Sonic 1 to Mania, meaning Sonic has more surface he must climb and lose speed to. At least I think that's the reason he slows down like that.
At this point, Sega should just go back to making new interesting gameplay for modern sonic and stop catering to classic fans if they can't do classic physics right. Otherwise classic fans will nitpick & bitch about every single missing detail and it's getting old. Classic fans had 5-6 games with classic sonic elements since Sonic 4 or Colors. Now they should just focus on new material for sonic and make sure the quality is amazing so they won't have to rely on nostalgia ever again.
cmsunite Genuinely, classic fans are so fucking butthurt people.
*The Music Is What Makes Me Like Classic Sonic Levels*
Classic Sonic had no place in Forces. Made an already bad game even worse.
Classic sonic was just a filler to promote mania and forces are canon
To me, Green Hill in Generations looked like a true modern take on it, but Forces' design makes it look far closer to the original games, and I'd say makes it look much more bland as a result.
The physics in Forces in terms of slopes and the like, I think are just a tad better than Generations (to my memory), but it doesn't matter in Forces anyway because the level design is so flat and boring.
THERE ARE INVISIBLE SPRINGS EVERYWHERE!
ITS CALLED GLOBAL WARMING TAILS!!!!!
*AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
I remember when I first saw that classic Sonic was going to be in Forces, I said "I sure hope they fix the movement physics for classic Sonic. It just didn't feel right in Generations."
Not only did they not improve it, *they somehow fucked it up even more.*
I think it's about time for Sonic Team to retire and let Christian Whitehead, Taxman, and Pagoda West become the new Sonic Team.
5:31 *F U G*
"See Sonic Team? This is how Modern Sonic should be: Proper Momentum Physics, fluid controls, a mix of speed and platforming, no boring boost spam, no overly scripted sequences to give the illusion of spectacle, speed as the reward for doing well not just given to the player at the push of a button without having to work for it, and no double boost pads on every loop making it impossible to backtrack through a section because the level designers want you to play the game in only one way."
There. Fixed that for you
Ok, this is an opinion, if you got a problem with it please do not lash against me or I will be forced to take action against you
I would agree at some points
Classic Sonic in Forces wasn’t the best, but it wasn’t bad
Each level had a unique somewhat 8/16-bit theme, the drop dash was helpful, and level design was at least ok
Plus, you mentioned Classic doesn’t get a jump boost from enemies if he jumps from below them?
Yeah that’s natural!
It makes sense you would bounce off an enemy from the top and not the bottom
Also, the invisible spring detail was overused here, yes there everywhere we get it, but let me ask, if the springs weren’t there at all, or were visible but only used near holes, how would you know to jump in certain places ( if you were playing the level for the first time )
You wouldn’t
My last problem with this video is how you compared EVERYTHING WITH CLASSIC SONIC TO GENERATIONS AND SONIC 1
We get it both are great games
But just because classic was great in them doesn’t mean that if classic from Forces isn’t good
Yeah it’s not the same but nothing in this game should perfectly relate to Generations, Colors, 1, 2, 3, &K, etc.
Ok I’m done
Again, please note this is an opinion, spam me with hate and things will get hostile
Dunkle G what kind of idiot wouldn't know to jump when you can't hold right anymore
super koopa 64
Well when you’re trying to get an S in every stage, like me, it gets frustrating
I think a lot of this hate stems from Sonic Mania being amazing. After that beautifully well done momentum-based love letter of a game, we get this, which feels a bit shoehorned in.
Wil Helm
That makes sense
Dunkle G but the springs slow you down.
I liked that Classic Sonic gained height from jumping into badniks from below in Generations. Felt good.
I am thinking Classic Sonic is becoming *a little too old now...* _Hey, Sonic! Your future is going to be great!_
The invisible springs are in Sonic CD as well, they aren't new... although they're actually well placed in that game and make sense
Edit: Also apparently they're in Sonic 3&K, Sonic 2 and Mania, so basically every classic sonic game other than the first one
i'd pay actual money to see a positive youtube video regarding forces lol
When comparing, it looks like :"Now let's compare Green Hill to Sonic Generations"
00:25 Nah sonic advance really made a good effort and did pretty well to replicate the classic physics in my opinion
While many 'fans' criticize Sonic Teams for not exactly emulating Sonic's Genesis eras physics and style I absolutely loved Sonic Forces and Generations because how downright fun they are. Im not expecting nor scouring every Sonic game for gliches and errors(most of which probably because the pressure the get to improve their past work instead of pushing the franchise foreward). I don't lose my crap everytime the momentum in a slope doesn't feel as good as it was years ago and I don't bash Sonic for trying to reinvent himself or try something new because i appreciate the fact that Sonic Team always aims for fans satisfaction in new content despite content backlash. Sonic Team wants to please fans so much to even fulfill fans desire to give Sonic a gun and create one of Sonics most memorable characters. If anything Sonic's problem isn't that hes not what he used to be but that fans refuse to let him grow. Forces was an awesome game and I can't wait to see what Sonic Team does next. I think they should for once relieve themselves of fan induced pressure and not try as hard tobplease us. Yes fanbase is the foundation of a videogame franchise but considering fan pressure and backlash is what began to send Sonic into a hit-or-miss depression Sonic Team should really focus on Sonic for once.
5:50
Agreed. We at least know they can do boost well enough because Modern Sonic is... ONCE AGAIN, the big fun part of Forces. Egg Gate and Network Terminal were damn good and I hope they alongside most of Unleashed's day stages are the template for the next 3D outing.
Bro, why do I love this game so much
"Green hill's looking a lot more like sand hill right now"
"It's been generations since i've seen you"
"True dat"
Hidden Springs were actually featured in EHZ in Sonic 2. They were used very sparingly, though, so as not to become a nuisance.
You know what's the greatest difference between Generations, the original and Forces? Generations and the first Sonic ARE FUN.
Comparing Forces to Generations is like comparing a butter knife to a katana.
“It’s called global warming tails” fuccin rekt ded
Honestly they could have lifted the entire fucking set of levels from Generations and I'd be happy. I can't even complain about Generations, that was the first time sidescroller Sonic was fun, and the first time in a while where 3D Sonic was a joy.
When people complain about invisible springs but they've been there since Sonic 1.
Not that you would've shown the footage afterwards or anything, but I was internally screaming when you didn't jump in the warp ring at the end of the video.
Sega knew the fans liked Green Hill, so they put Green Hill inside of Green Hill.
4:53 Actually, both of these properties are in Sonic Forces. In terms of bounce height, it's easy to test at the beginning of Ghost Town with the three ring boxes on the lower path at the first drop and in Iron Fortress during the autoscrolling section if you take the higher paths and jump on the missile launchers or ring boxes from above. Sonic Team improved a lot of things from Generations but took away the most important things in the process and I think that's why everyone says Forces' version of Classic Sonic is dogshit.
Christian Whitehead literally analyzed Sonic 1 frame by frame in order to replicate the physics for the mobile port.
I bet that back in 1990 gamers were thinking that in 27 years time there'd be absolutely amazing new versions of the newly released game Sonic The Hedgehog to play.
THEY WERE WRONG, THEY WERE ALL WRONG.
Sonic Team: Momentum? That's a product of it's time we're not bringing that again
Well, the I agree with the invisible spring part since at some parts it's really telling us that the developer thinks that we are not capable of making small and easy jumps in most of the level and sometimes the invisible spring saves you with is kind of annoying at some point because it should teach the player that at some parts there are consequences and that we will remember what to do when we get to the section. But, the invisible spring mechanic would've been good if they used it in some secret parts to reward the player for finding the right area to get to a certain part of the level. Pretty much, the level design is really simple and easy, which they should put in some parts of the level challenging for players that love having challenges to get by to make gameplay more entertaining and fun. They should extend the levels more so that the player wouldn't get through the level and go "Oh, that's all?". Because you can finish most of the levels in several seconds. So, if they put in parts for each players personality (like, challenge gameplay, platforming sections, ect.) then the gameplay would be more fun to go back to and make it worth playing instead of playing the game in a few hours. (I even beat the game in 5 hours in my first blind gameplay! But, I did enjoy the game.) They should've given Infinite more of a backstory instead of making him like a child. (Such as saying he's not weak repeatedly sounding like he was whining) Well, there's more that I wanted to say, but I didn't want to bore you all out and get on with your lives and not wasting it all by reading a really long comment. But, thank you for reading this and have a wonderful day!
Honestly, I'm not too sure the point of Classic Sonic in Forces. I get that the Phantom Ruby warped him to the Modern timeline, but what did he really do? He didn't work alongside Modern Sonic once until the very end. I'm sure you could've cut out the Classic Sonic stages and it would've made no difference to the story. I mean shouldn't he have a slightly bigger connection since the ruby came from his dimension?
Matty Paul it would of made more sense to put Blaze in his place.
All he did was saving Tails from Chaos, and then was fighting Eggman in Green Hill.
I also had that funny feeling when I first saw classic sonic in the trailer. Everything was fine and then I just had this daunting feeling come out of nowhere when he popped up. I don’t even mind classic. Something just told me something is wrong.
Tbh, I really don't like the classic Sonic gameplay at all in Sonic Forces. Custom character levels: AMAZING. Modern Sonic levels: OUTSTANDING. Classic Sonic levels: a total letdown. The Sonic generations mechanics were way better, they should've just gave classic Sonic the Sonic generations mechanics, then it probably would've been hunky dory and all fine. Sonic Forces is my favorite game in the series, but it has the worst classic Sonic gameplay. One thing that irritates me the most was that you don't last long underwater because when I played the chemical plant level as classic Sonic, I was literally underwater for like 10 seconds or less and the timer already started going down
The spindash is so op that the video quality turned into a webcam recording
Another thing that really gets me about Sonic Forces are the rings. Why the fuck are you allowed to collected about 500-600 in one stage if there are no lives in the game? You lose more than you collected when hit, so what's the difference from giving one ring for the whole stage? Getting 100 rings felt like a reward in the old games. The highest amount of rings in a stage you could collect is about 300 in Unleshed (PS3), and that's only because the absurd ring magnetism when you boost, which was made even more absurd with Forces
Guys, the invisible springs are not there for the new players. It's something to avoid for the old players (except in some cases where you need them to get to the higher route instead of jumping over like you'd expect. )
It Really Is A Matter Of What Kind Of Game You See Forces As.
I see it as a fast-paced game you can ( and imho Should )speedrun to make even faster.
Take Ghost Town For Instance.
Notice all of those slopes you encounter and wish to dropdash/spindash down and go flying into the air, only one of them or so NOT turned into an underwhelming experience at the hand of a seemingly inappropriately - placed spring at the 90 degree facing edge of the slope.
If You Go Through The Entire Stage Using All of Those Springs While Going For The Highest Path You Will Not Make It Under a Minute's Length in time.
But There Has To Be A Way To Beat It In Under a Minute if there's a Mission For It, Right?
Correct.
If you time it right, there's an odd way that doesn't seem like it'd work but does method to jumping over the parts of the ramp with the spring on the end and getting through in less time.
But even after avoiding all unavoidable springs you still take just long enough to not be under a minute. Why?
That's because the hidden spring near the end of the highest route you can jump over instead of walk into? You actually have to use that one to get to the highest-highest route section that's only near the end of the level to get through at the highest speed you can for that section.
Trust me, figuring it out was hell but it was so rewarding.
I played via the nintendo switch edition, I don't know it higher framerates introduce problems regarding framerate being too high or reaction time not being fast enough etc. but it's really fun and I am very glad I own this game and can take as long as I want to figure out all of the odds and ends to a more fulfilling gameplay.
It's all there, you just gotta figure out how to do it right.
Also I'm glad to see some appreciation for Generations' classic gameplay now that Forces is out :^)
Again.
Play Ghost Town. It's got spikes along the highest possible routes at any given section of the level.
The invisible springs also made an appearance in Sonic 3, but I can guarantee that there wasn't any invisible spring infestations in that game. In fact, in my opinion, those invisible springs were placed more conveniently than the Sonic Forces ones.
I LOVE HOW EVERYTHING IS IN CAPS
There aren't invisible springs but there are invisible enemies, Generations is the good mix between the three and that ending statement is very true.