Great video! I think the 16" 308 would be very practical for most hunting applications. I deer hunt in wide open spaces where there are many possible 1000 yrd shooting distances. However, after over 10yrs of hunting that property, only one deer was taken at 410yrds, all others were 200yrds and in. I think with rangefinders and modern rifle scopes, we get the idea that we need to have the ability to take longer shots at game if we hunt in wide open spaces, but I like the idea of practice long, hunt short.
I've never hunted so this may be a dumb question. But wouldn't the longer the shot/kill mean harder to find the body of the prey? Or maybe the more likely that another predator would steal your kill?
@@ecobasetech4558it’s not improbable. But if you are taking a shot with a rifle on game you better be sure it’s a hit in the vitals. Mistakes happen but you should be 99% sure that you will connect where you need to. The furthest I’ve ever had a white tail run in me after as shot is about 100 yards. Most drop where they are/ or take a few steps. A 200 yard shot means a 3 minute walk or so. Plus looking in a 100 yard radius. (Depending on terrain, it may be larger or smaller) From the time you decide to move from the location you made your shot, assuming it’s a good shot, it shouldn’t take much more than 30 minutes to find the game (in my experience). I mostly hunt in the Appalachian region. Which Is different then hunting in Iowa, which is different than hunting in Colorado. Predators aren’t going to move in on game that quickly, especially if they hear/smell humans. If the game gets left over night because you couldn’t locate it, obviously the chances go up. But coyotes and bear don’t typically jump on a dead animal that quickly (in my experience). In my opinion taking long shots isn’t unethical, as long as you know you are going to make the shot. My personal frame work is be consistent with cold bore shots at the range at double the distance you want to take a shot on game. Meaning if you can be consistent at 800 yards at the range, your hunting limitation should be roughly 400 yards. If you are consistent at 200 yards you should keep your shots within 100. (Assuming your cartridge is adequate for taking game at whatever distance)
@@ecobasetech4558 in short, yes. Paying attention to where the deer is when you shoot it seems obvious/easy but it's tougher in practice when excitement is there with a big boom.
I'm so glad that you all still realize the usefulness of the .308" win. I had a career that began with the 7.62 and lasted 20 years. I 100% know and completely understand the benefits of all these new marketing attempts with all the new wizbang cartridges, and yes, there is some good ones that have appeared and yes for punching holes in paper I will gravitate towards the new super high B.C. chambering . Yet I just can not stray from the facts that I have been shooting a 18" kreiger 1-11" twisted barreled rifle. In a BAT ACTION for the better part of 10 years. I shoot a 168gr berger with this combo of parts, and inside 300 yards it's a .5" rifle. I have fire 10 shoots into this time and time again On hundreds of occasions. So when it was time to go to work this is what I had. It was purpose build for engagements of 250yards or less. I have shot this rifle to 600 and it becomes a 1 MOA . But inside of 300 it's a laser beam that I will rebarrel time and time again. My point is when it works beyond what life expects its hard to change from what is 100%solid as a sunrise. The 308 will never lose its place in people's heart.
You shoot the 1-11 twist because it is been the Gold standard those bullets. It was clearly stated on record in that the 30-06 1-10 twist was an over spin for 150 and 168 bullets and that begins to show up more past 600 yards, also the long case design was not as efficient. I know the 308 is BETTER than the 6.5 HYPEMORE. The military knows this. My best 308 load for my bolt action is the best load for my CMMG AR10 type rifle.
I'm thinking about cutting down my 308 Remington 700 to 18 inches, but I have also been thinking about getting it rebarreled to a better cartridge. The only problem is that I can't figure out what cartridge that would be. What is worth the update from the 308? I thought about 6.5 Mememoor, 243Win, 6 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, and even 338 federal, but I just can't justify changing calibers. Nothing really works better than 308 when fired from a shorter barrel. XD
I have been shooting 45.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a 165 grain bullet for decades. It shoots good in every gun I have fired it in and is 2800 fps in my Weatherby Meat eater. My favorite barrel length to hunt with is 22 inches.
You and Guy sure make a great team! I have started watching you chanel a lot more since he has joined! He has a lot of knowledge in different fields of shooting which gives your chanel a lot more depth! In my short 60+ years of hunting, collecting and reloading and still getting to learn new things!
Greetings from a few hours north of you folks, thanks for the video. We've had a .308 18½" carbine in the safe for more than 40 years, usually using 130gr to 173gr bullets. For Okanagan deer we settled on 165gr Hornday Interlocks and they worked fine. A couple years back I loaded up some 130gr TTSX in it but so far haven't tested them on anything. There is a bit more muzzle blast for sure with the shorter barrel, but it is a very handy length for both packing around and in thicker cover. Best to you both.
Living in Aussie Land, I have allot of centrefire rifles with barrels from 12 inches to 16 inches . My 4000 acres I have very heavy scrub , So longs shots for me are 100 yds... with most shots from 25-50 yds. Short barreled rifles just make sense , Just wish we could run suppressed. I can also confirm that no feral pig, dog, deer or goat with my 12 inch barreled 45-70 noticed the velocity loss of the 300 grain hollow point , Same for my 15 inch barrelled 308 with a 200 grain soft point.
Does it require a special permit or license to have a short barrel like that? Here in the US anything under 16” is considered an SBR and needs an extra payment and paperwork to make legal. No suppressors in the outback huh?
@@arm_usa Not in my state... Only requirement is the overall length ...... Suppressors here are Cat R, Same as a machine gun.. But other states allow feral pest controllers and farmers to have a suppressed firearm due to workplace health and safety guidelines on noise . But since i posted this, I cant even have a bb gun.. The government refused to renew my license.
I live in a state where suppressors aren't allowed. So I go with the longer barrels on my rifles. For hearing protection I use electronic ear plugs that cam amplify ambient sounds but shut of the amplification when they hear the shots. Best of both worlds and no restrictions on them.
Ear protection is always a good idea. If it's one shot, so be it. But I have never ever ever shot a rifle cartridge that is quiet enough to not potentially damage hearing. Even a 223 is loud. Both long or short. Muzzle break, no muzzle break. Crown, no crown, etc, etc. Is it less? Maybe but still not enough that it wont do damage. 22lr in a rifle length is barely acceptable.
If I can’t have both I choose short supressed. For ethical hunting distances it’s just fine. Ive had experience with 130gr TTSX on deer. Awesome bullet.
Hi Gaven, My brother and I built a shorty. Remington 700 308 varmint profile. Both of us worked together to shorten and Re-crown to 18". 20 years ago. I shoot a Unitaugh Precision, 300 BO, 16" Shilen 30 cal. Match blank. You only get 200 FPS less with half the powder. 16 to 23 g instead of 40+. I am using it to learn free recoil style of shooting. Keep it up. You bring your own prospective to yo tube.
I've been running a 15.5" Model 7 in 308 for a few years now. Running a 9" long Gunworks overbarrel suppressor and Speer 165 BTSP at 2450. It's just under 1 meter long and super handy in the bush, but still got enough legs to go to 300 yards if I need to.
The 130 TSX have worked well for me in 308. They are also fun in 300 WSM. I've used them for spike elk. Shoots flatter than my 220 Swift out to 400 yds.
Prior to your shorty build I sent an older 700 action to Pac Nor for a 16 inch 308. I went with a 1/12 twist for the lighter side of bullets. Mainly deer and coyotes here in North Texas. Varmint profile cut at 16.25 is a little heavier than I thought. My Dead Air Sandman TI has been on for every shot so far. Loading 125 hp with Varget into LC brass. Thanks for sharing the pistol loading page I had no idea it was there.
Hodgdon's 15" .308 pistol data is real useful if building a stubby 16" rifle. Seems like you got yourself one heck of a rifle. My "Green Machine" is also a 1:12 twist, works fine with up to 175/180 gr bullets, but normally I run 168's or lighter.
Love this video and the shorty build. I purchased a Howa 1500 .308-16 inch, waiting for the Bell & Carlson stock to arrive. In my neck of the woods, shorter is just more practical. The ammunition data is probably going to save me time and money 💰 Thanks for that 👍🏼
Remington model seven 308,16.5 in barrel, lightweight 3-9x scope because if I need to shoot past 400 yds I grabbed the wrong gun. I like a 150 grain sst over 50 grains cfe 223, think they came out at 2750fps nice 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards.
Short rifles like this are common in NZ for Bush hunting. Loads of old cut down Lee Enfields still in use as well as they still kill deer and no point beating up a flash rifle crashing around in the bush if your only shooting 20 to 50m.
This is great I got the "new" Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 with the 16 inch barrel and it was my go to hunting rifle last season. I just started to reload and thanks for showing what it cN do. I have a 150g Interlock with Varget. Super cool to see what it can do.
Wait....I have to choose? My son-in-law Seth Gardner (D-M Targets) persuaded me to go 24" on my 308 PRS build, but I also have an 18" gas 308 so best of both worlds. It took me a while to get used to the 24" barrel, but I would not change a thing now. Accuracy potential is excellent and I hope to start working on hand loads this winter. Great content and thanks for the data points.
I love this channel, I've been a subscriber for years. It's cost me thousands and thousands of dollars, and I'm happy about every purchase I've made. I'm about to finish up my 308 project. A Rem 700 SPS Tactical, glass bedded Bell and Carlson long range tactical stock Mathews cheek riser, Triggertech Special, Arken ep5. Sadly, suppressors aren't legal in this state. Working up loads in Laupa brass using XBR and Varget. 168 smk and 165 Ganekings. Picked up a magneto speed v3 to help find a node. Because there isn't a range over 300 yards where I'm at that's going to have to do unfortunately. I will be using this setup for hogs too. Can't wait for the weekend to get to the range and collect some data. Keep up the good work, I really appreciate the content you guys are putting out, especially during these crazy times with this format censoring all the best channels.
I run a Remington 700 with a 24" because of the velocity I can get out of it. It rivals my 7 mag in a couple of areas and is just a little bit shorter and lighter. I started hunting with Walker Razor electric ear buds and never felt the need to bother with a suppressor. And yes I have suppressors so I know what they can do.
Good to know those work. I have hunted and target shot a 20" heavy fluted factory barrel Savage FCP for around 6 year's. Polished bolt assembly and trigger with a mod. Everything else is factory. Older with no threaded barrel and with how it shoots I will not touch it. From 45.0 gr to 46.0 gr it shot between .188 and .3 something 3 shot groups with POI not changing but very little, 1/8" at most when testing. I run 175gr SMK in Lapua brass lit with CCI #200 primer @ 2.800". It has been out to 1200 yards on many occasion and 1000 even more. I run a 168gr for hunting now. I have run 150gr. It is pretty close to the perfect all around Whitetail rifle for my neck of the woods. Appreciate the heads up on the Walker Razor.
Shorty 16-18in carbon barreled 308 with 5in can is my dream mountian gun...125 to 150gr mono or good hunting bullet is more then enough for typical hunting distances
Awesome video and information! I would love to see this kind of test with a more over-bore cartridge, like .243, or .25-06, or any of the 7mm or .300 Magnums! Keep up the good work!
Your guys should try some of the CFE 223 powder... found with shorter barrels was getting better volcity than some of the other powders.. Love the look of that stock but the cost on them is a little steep for me...
i guess the things i’ve heard about suppressors canceling out the short barrel lower fps numbers are wrong. Good to learn. For some reason I had thought that putting the suppressor effectively turns it back into longer barrel ballistics. Yes, very good to learn!
Nice build! I like my 22" barrel. Really like the concept of the shorty, though. Interesting results on the velocity. I think the shortest I'd go is 20". Maybe 18... You have me thinking. Also, I've had excellent accuracy/velocity results with the Barnes TTSX 165gr and RRLP 150gr.
So if my math is right 16 inches is 66.5% (roughly) of 24 and on these velocities the 16 inch barrel is producing roughly 91% to 93% of the 24 inch barrel to me that’s a respectable ratio of weight and length reduction while keeping decent velocity’s
It really depends what you're doing with the rifle. I myself probably don't go any shorter than about 18 inches. If you're in a tree stand or a ground blind a compact rifle is handy. I like velocity when you're shooting at distances over 300 yards. Great video guys.😊
Good vid guys. I really like my shorty, old school Rem model seven in 7mm, 18" barrel. It can be carried all day long and it drops deer on the spot. I personally wouldn't add weight by putting a suppressor or large tactical scope on it.
Great video, I really like Guy, enjoy his perspective being a Swat Snipper and also being a hunter. I have a 16in 308 and absolutely love it. Everything you guys said is spot on! Keep the videos rolling! 🇺🇸
It shot really well, but I caution that my loads were at the top end. I'd recommend carefully working up to my loads, which were the max according to Hodgdon. Normally I don't go that high with Varget and a 168, I stay a grain lower than that for my favorite loads.
Awesome video, thanks! I'm an old-school .308 fan-boy and love rifles with barrels of pretty much all lengths. While I do naturally gravitate towards longer-barreled models, I must admit that for my area (GMNF in VT), the Shorty would be more than adequate, and much fun to schlep over hill and dale. Cheers!
I found that 18" really brings noticeably more performance to the table than 16" and nearly the same as 20 to 24" barrels without sacrificing mobility.
A 20 MOA picatinny rail , a 16" barrel 1-11.25 rifling , plus an EC tunner and a supressor , a good stock with adjustable length of pull and cheek piece , a Timney trigger , an Atlas bipod and 168 grain ammo .
I'm a big fan of the 20" barrel 308 still handy with decent velocity, with my hunting 150 yards would be a fair poke so something easy to carry and point is a good choice
I actually just finished my stubby 308 build as well. similar to yours but i did a carbon fiber barrel and stock. total weight with glass is 7.2lbs for backpack hunting out to a few hundred yards. plan on running suppressed as well. I actually uploaded a video on my channel of some velocities with 6 different box ammo. I have a 14.75" barrel with pin & welded muzzle device for the silencerco cans which brings length to 16.5. No where near the quality of videos you put out, but it is good to get this info out there. I have come across little to no info about velocities with stubby 308 rifles when I started my journey. Funny that you started posting your build after I ordered my components for mine. nice to see some other velocities. and huge help about the hodgdons pistol 308 load data on their website. I had no idea.
I have a Encore Pro Hunter with a 15.5" 308 barrel. I had my Dead Air muzzle brake pinned and welded to meet 16". I use my Silencer Co Hybrid on it and it love's the Hornady precision hunter 168gr. I also use a primary arms 3x micro prism with the griffin reticle. This is my preferred deer rifle to hunt here in the Ozarks of North Arkansas. With this setup I can punch a milk jug at 300 yds.
@@guyminer3168 if you can find one. S&W dropped Thompson Center because they wanted to put more money into other projects. Because S&W is changing in quality control and they dropped TC I'll never purchase anything from S&W again. Now E. Author Brown has a website where you can get barrel's and some times he might have an action or two. Get one before they become an expensive unicorn.
building ruger american 308 on a bell carlson stock and had it threaded. waiting on atf for suppressor. your info has made my decision to do this uplifting. the ruger has an 18 inch barrel. thanks for the reloading info also.
I just completed a rifle build for the Germam woods (shot range 200 m and in): Tikka T3x stainless, .308, 17" barrel, HAUSKEN 184 overbarrel suppressor bedded in a T3 laminated stock (for better balance). Topped wit a Schmid & Bender Zenith 3-12x50 FFP scope and FD 7 reticle. Ammo: Barnes TSX 150 gn with 44 gn of Vihtavuori N140 powder @ 2500 fps (estimated MV). Should expand reliably at least up to 210 m (@ 2000 fps). Groups .4 MOA. Best regards, K.
I just picked up a Ruger American Predator in .308 with a 16” barrel. Put it in a Magpul stock and figuring out which scope now. Will be a perfect deer rifle in PA where most shots are under 100 yds. Will be great for hiking around in thick forests where I live.
I'd happily take shorty with a suppressor, especially since I'm in the middle of building a 14.5" in 6.5 Creedmoor with a folding stock to run suppressed for white tail. The max range I might spot a deer is 150ish yards if all the trees were lined up just right. A nice little compact rifle to have in a truck with 4 other people who all have 24 or 26 inch barrels.
Another great video that is very interesting. I recently purchased a 308 Weatherby Vanguard with a 20 inch barrel. So I assume the velocities will be right in the middle of your data. That 125 ballistic top is really on my radar now. Really enjoy your videos with Guy on there.
Absolutely. A 308 with a short little barrel becomes a gelding. I have a 22" and 24" 308. Both are fine, accurate, etc. The 24" has outstanding velocity. It reaches the REAL performance potential of the cartridge. The 22" has become my 100yd feeder / stand setup on my ranch for wild hogs that come by the feeder AND I load it down a bit because the distance is so close, just to save a bit on recoil.
Got 24 inch and 16 inch barrel I like the 16 inch barrel for me. I can moving around better in brush. Open land magnum round 24 inch barrel for long distance shooting. For pronghorn hunting
Gavin, great video. Considering apples. Can you please explain the relationship between barrel twist and fps? Your shorty barrel had a 1-8 barrel twist vs standard 1-12 barrel twist.
I have a 308 Troy Pump Action with a 16 inch 11.25 twist - about 2400fps with 180gn bullets shooting about 2 MoA... But it prints horrible with even 168 and lighter bullets. I was contemplating getting new barrel. Maybe 18 inch and 1:10 twist so I'd love to learn more
Bryan Litz did extensive testing on the subject. Story short, faster vs slower twist rates result in very minor velocity loss, along the lines of 5fps. Basically, it's absolutely nothing to worry about or even consider as a factor.
I did some work this year trying to maximize performance in an 18" 308 with 155 grain Match Monsters. Ramshorn TAC, IMR 8208XBR, and Shooters World Tactical Rifle would safely get over 2700 fps in that barrel length.
People are and have been finding this out. The model 7 remington in 7mm-08 in 1981 had a 18 1/2 inch barrel. I used this one to fill cooler 120gr hp was my go to load in front of 4064 IMR. Out to 400yd's I could see impact. No kick just fun to shoot I now use 20 inch barrel and for me this is the sweet spot. Funny how rem. Came up with an idea that just now has come to light. And 30-30 bullets in a 308 reduced load will also kick butt out to 200yds.
Here in New Zealand, a 16 inch barrel .308 (suppressed) is very common and standard issue for bush hunting. Most of this style of hunting is limited to 200 yards, but skilled hunters using custom reloads can ethically push it out to double this distance. Tikka even produce a rifle with a threaded 16 inch barrel just for our market.
I hunt with a suppressed 6.5 CM shorty. I rushed right to the website to look but they dont offer load data for shorter 6.5’s. If you guys are looking for another show to do it be great to find a good fast burning powder that burns up before the bullet reaches the end of the barrel
I had a .308 shorty built on a Mauser 98 action years ago. Used a pull off Sendero barrel 12 twist cut and rethreaded for the 98 later I put it back in the shop for muzzle threads 5/8 x 24 for a suppressor. It's slightly longer than 16". Shoot 150 grain Winchester Power Points and Barnes 150's both loaded with Varget same charge weight and impact literally in the same place. Through a SRT suppressor recoil is soft and for short range efficient on South Texas critters. I never chronographed any loads I figured a couple of hundred feet slower the deer I shot never had any bullets to recover all went through mostly close range brush shots. I have a lot of light bullets for Blackout may load some in it and give them a try. I did some subsonic loads with Trail Boss and Hornady round nose projectiles that had been hollow pointed but stuck with my Blackout too easy to load them. I like the shorty you built it would make a good rig for pig eradication.
For hunting, 16 woods hunting, CQB counter sniper For target and / or longer distance hunting, wide open space hunting, longer barrel like the 24-inch Would like to see the same load for maybe a 30-inch 308 barrel. When would you possibly start to lose velocity? at what barrel length ? Or would you add more velocity beyond a 24-inch barrel
Oh my goodness, you're taking me back a lot of years when I was shooting matches with a 30" 1:13 twist "tight bore" Krieger... We were trying to squeeze all we could from a 308 Winchester and a 155 grain bullet to comply with Palma requirements... Yes, the 30" barrel worked very well with the 308 Winchester. It might take me a while to look up what my velocity was with that barrel... Not sure I even have it anymore, but I know that I was getting over 3,000 fps from a 155, with excellent accuracy.
That would be great too - and one nice thing about the Partition is that the front portion expands readily. The 130 grain Barnes TTSX is a surprisingly sturdy bullet, being all copper with no lead.
I hunt elk and muleys in the mountains of western Wyoming. That shorty is pretty much the perfect rifle. I do like the ttsx buletts but might just choose 150 grain for that extra penetration on elk. Even for antelope, our hilly unit almost always yields sub-400 yard shots and that thing would be ideal. I might just build something like that myself… Nice work.
Western Wyoming is just terrific! I've hunted elk and mule deer there myself, and wet a fly line more than once as well. Best of luck this coming season!
I've got a old Hodgdon load manual that has .308 pistol data that is before the T/C encore was built and marketed. It lists a 14 inch barrel on a contender frame about 18-24 months before the encore was being first released. I've got decent velocity out of the 15 inch barrel and it was more than adequate for 265 yards with a zero at just over the 200 mark. I was able to keep 20 out of 20 shots in a 6 inch steel target with most inside the 4 inch.
I've been playing with the 130 TTSX in a Sig Cross 16". I hit 2940 before I ran out of room in a Lapua case with Varget. Great node at 2920 and no pressure at all. I've been pretty impressed with it on paper out to 400 yards. This season will prove or not. Big departure from the standard 168/175 I normally shoot. It's been a fun time
Rem 700 .308 VSSF 26” barrel is my go to moose gun, 150 ttsx with max charge of Varget sub 1/2moa. Long barrel feels nice when I have had to off hand shoot moose, steady like a long shotgun barrel on waterfowl. Also use an 18” savage 308 scout when I know I’m going to do a lot of traveling through the woods or on snow machine. Good ole 06’ 22” barrel stands right in the middle of those two and I can’t argue against that
I love compacts. My 16” Ruger Gunsite Scout is nice and short, even with the Dead Air Sandman K, and fits on my 4 wheeler nicely. Compared to my Daniel Defense Delta 5 with 24” barrel and 9” Silencerco suppressor. I was backing my 4 wheeler out of the shed the first time I took the Delta 5 out and the suppressor whacks the side of the door and the whole rifle almost falls off the 4 wheeler. Mental note made…
In New Zealand Tikka sell a factory 16" threaded .308 called the "bush hunter". Shortened barrels to 16-18" particularly in .308 have been very popular for a long time in NZ thanks to our thick dense bush which makes carrying a full length rifle a nightmare. 20" 7mm rem mag is also becoming very popular. Supressors are also very popular because we bush stalk and so you need to be able to hear everything and there's no time for hearing protection when you've just spotted a deer at 10m and they're staring at you
This is great info. I traded a friend for his barley use Desert Tec srs covert in .308 with a 16in barrel. I'm in the west where you stretch out your shots. I think the nosler 125 b-tip will be tested for cyotes and Jacks. Thanks fellas super work.
I’ve been looking at the Tika Hunter .308 Winchester . I mostly just hunt whitetail deer in northern Michigan and don’t really need anything more than what the .308 is capable of doing. Even if I do decide to elk hunt / black bear , it will get the job done ✅ Some of the features that I like are that the Tika is offered in several different varieties of wood or synthetic stocks , it has a 1 in 11” barrel twist ( I’ve had 1 in 10 “ and 1 in 12” and this 1 in 11” I guess is Tikkas answer to the perfect compromise between the two which will certainly handle anything from 150 grain up to 175 grain bullets ) They offer 20” or 22” barrel options threaded with a break or non threaded , and I’d personally choose the 22” length barrel which pretty much burns the powder achieving optimum velocities ( you say about 25 fps per inch of barrel length in loss of velocity so , minus 2” from the 24” barrel only losing 50 fps , I don’t think that’s anything significant enough to amount to any loss in cartridge performance, not when you’re talking about realistic hunting distances that wouldn’t equate to more than 400 yards max , and most within 100 yards ) As far as threaded with a break , I’ll pass just because that increases cost and I’m not shooting competitively or worried about excessive recoil , not to mention it adds unnecessary barrel length that can hinder your ability to quickly acquire moving targets in real world hunting situations. 22” barrel seems to hit the sweet spot in barrel lengths for most practical applications for hunting or target shooting. There are so many options for .308 rifles as well as ammunition choices , you just can’t go wrong with a .308 Winchester. I’ve contemplated the 7mm-08 but this day and age with the limited ammo selection for that caliber , I think staying with the good ol venerable .308 Winchester is the right choice . Edit : one last thing I really like about the Tika is the detachable box magazine, as I’ve never been a fan of hinged floor plate type rifles . And the bolt action is superb ! Buttery smooth !
Great video and right down my alley. Ive been trying different loads in a POF Revolution DI with a 16.5" barrel. Its pretty much sub moa with any decent quality load and will shoot close to 1/2" with Norma 168 and 175 match. I'd like to see you guys work up a load with the Barns 110 grain TTSX and get your thoughts. As you mentioned they're a solid copper bullet and retain virtually 100% of their weight. Load data suggests that its possible to almost emulate 130 grain.270 ballistics out of a 16" barrel with this bullet. At least out to reasonable hunting ranges.
I had/have a Remington model 700 BDL with a 24” bull barrel in .308, I had a gunsmith trim the barrel down to 18” and turned down to a sporter style barrel. The accuracy was amazing before I had this work done, after I got the rifle back from the gunsmith the accuracy never changed one little bit. I reload 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip boat tails, I use this round to hunt everything I can get a tag for. I Load 46.5 grains of IMR 4064 and my velocity is on average 2834fps. I zeroed this round in for 300 yards, this is the gun I use all of the time to hunt, even though I use a Ruger in .280 REM with 22” barrel or another Ruger in 7mm-08 with an 18” barrel that I have as backups if something were to happen to the REM .308. I love the short barreled rifles.
i have an ar10 with 16in, sig cross 16in ,and a mrad 17in. currently trying to decide between 168/175 smk or go heavy 190's. loaded long with varget. i also have a bunch of vv n-133. not too much data with fast powder and 168's. but im going to try it.
In a stand/blind, without the suppressor your eyes and ears will like the muzzle being as far out the portal as possible. The shorty with suppressor is far easier, 2 inches is a lot in a cramped box, to thread through that portal.
That would be interesting, my great uncle told me that the extra case capacity was to compensate for the lower quality powders back when the 30-06 came out.
Oddly the most common barrel length on a 308 is 22 inches. I understand short barrels suppressed is a thing now. Not a bad rig for shorter ranged hunting with enough power to do the job. The 24 inch is definitely the better not being suppressed. Entertaining video. BTW pistol data for rifle cartridges is available because of the Thompson Center Pistols.
Gavin and Guy. Your reference to data that was relevant to International and NRA silhouette 45+ years ago ( however not available as complete back then 70’s) was especially interesting, having developed some bolt pistols using Remington XP and Wichita actions. Settling on .257 Roberts as FL .308 recoil quite stiff. WITH 15” bbls resulting in MOA. Later a few of those fire arms were converted to 16.25 in barreled rifles in various calibers. Your specifics to bullet choices and practical ranges will surely inspire some “ Shorty bolt guns” BTW the esthetics of your build from stock, magazine, suppressor resonates “ who will build one of those. At a time of all the 1000 yd shooting, practical hunting and recreational custom rifles with 16.25 bbls will find a bitch. Currently own several examples of short rifles in .350 legend and .308. Always appreciate inspiration of Gavin and Guy on Ultimate Reloader. The Scientifically based testing benchmark on line ballistic education.
I like this comparison of barrel lenths and velocity. Currently I have a 20" barrel Desert Tech MDRXCOM. I have been looking at getting a FIMS .308, which is also a bullpup if I cannot raise the budget for the Desert Tech SRS A2 or M2. I like how the bullpup gives a shorter overall length with a 20" barrel. The SRS can be had with a 26" barrel. I don't have a hearing conservation suppressor. But might get one for use in a suppressor friendly State that some of my relatives live in. My more conventional rifles have 22" barrels. And being bolt action, I believe I can take those on a camping trip to Alaska over the Alcan highway.
I believe that you can. I took a bolt action 30-06 through Canada to Alaska in 2017 and shot a great interior grizzly with it. You've got some terrific rifles.
I like the Steyr scout supressed, though that free floated whip thin barrel you get POI shift. Within 5 shots it keeps .6 MOA but you have to use the 300yd bdc if sighted at 100.
For in the woods shorty for sure. Open country green machine. I would test multiple bullets to find the one it likes best then ajust seating depth to fine tune.
I really like my browning BLR in 358. (20") its sort of a 308. My shots on game aren't far enough for a longer barrel to be practical or necessary. Furthest shot ive ever taken on a big game animal is 137 yards... Ive taken way more shots @ trad bow distances then over 100yrd. Weight and mobility are king for me.
358 is an under-appreciated hunting cartridge. Buddy of mine has a Browning BLR so chambered and has taken a lot of elk a few mule deer and a couple of black bear with it.
A shorty is in the works for me. I have been planning this for some time. I have a Nomad-L, which is spectacular, that I will be attaching to the business end. The nomad is so good, I can stand next to (to the side of) the muzzle end of my 300 win mag when my son shoots it. This is without ears. I have sensitive ears already (occupation), and I have zero discomfort. 556 through the same suppressor is an entirely different story... In any case, it should be mentioned that a suppressor acts like added barrel length and increases velocity. I was planning to go 16, but after seeing this video, I think that I may go 18. I am only trying to keep the package roughly the same size as a standard rifle, as well as cutting down on weight. I do not believe that 2 more inches is going to be that much more unwieldy for my application. You have done a really good job on the rifle, and I sure appreciate the information from you both.
Well my DPMS AR10 has the 24" fluted barrel and it is a nice shooter even though it is heavier and longer! The suppressor does add the length back to the overall! Gavin I'm surprised that no one makes a suppressor that has a rear chamber which is behind the muzzle and over the barrel somewhat making the suppressor shorter forward of the bore. As the gas is stripped by the first area, that gas could be pushed through open ports and directed to that rear chamber as the bullet continues across the other chambers. Might be something to consider to keep things even shorter.
There are reflex 308 suppressors out there and some are better (mounting) for semiautos and some indeed reduce forward of muzzle length while others just increase volume. Just search 308 reflex suppressor to find them.
Great video! I think the 16" 308 would be very practical for most hunting applications. I deer hunt in wide open spaces where there are many possible 1000 yrd shooting distances. However, after over 10yrs of hunting that property, only one deer was taken at 410yrds, all others were 200yrds and in. I think with rangefinders and modern rifle scopes, we get the idea that we need to have the ability to take longer shots at game if we hunt in wide open spaces, but I like the idea of practice long, hunt short.
That's good philosophy
I've never hunted so this may be a dumb question. But wouldn't the longer the shot/kill mean harder to find the body of the prey? Or maybe the more likely that another predator would steal your kill?
@@ecobasetech4558it’s not improbable. But if you are taking a shot with a rifle on game you better be sure it’s a hit in the vitals. Mistakes happen but you should be 99% sure that you will connect where you need to. The furthest I’ve ever had a white tail run in me after as shot is about 100 yards. Most drop where they are/ or take a few steps. A 200 yard shot means a 3 minute walk or so. Plus looking in a 100 yard radius. (Depending on terrain, it may be larger or smaller)
From the time you decide to move from the location you made your shot, assuming it’s a good shot, it shouldn’t take much more than 30 minutes to find the game (in my experience). I mostly hunt in the Appalachian region. Which Is different then hunting in Iowa, which is different than hunting in Colorado.
Predators aren’t going to move in on game that quickly, especially if they hear/smell humans. If the game gets left over night because you couldn’t locate it, obviously the chances go up. But coyotes and bear don’t typically jump on a dead animal that quickly (in my experience).
In my opinion taking long shots isn’t unethical, as long as you know you are going to make the shot.
My personal frame work is be consistent with cold bore shots at the range at double the distance you want to take a shot on game. Meaning if you can be consistent at 800 yards at the range, your hunting limitation should be roughly 400 yards. If you are consistent at 200 yards you should keep your shots within 100. (Assuming your cartridge is adequate for taking game at whatever distance)
@@ecobasetech4558 in short, yes. Paying attention to where the deer is when you shoot it seems obvious/easy but it's tougher in practice when excitement is there with a big boom.
The difference in velocity between a 16" and 22" barrel is 200 fps
I'm so glad that you all still realize the usefulness of the .308" win. I had a career that began with the 7.62 and lasted 20 years. I 100% know and completely understand the benefits of all these new marketing attempts with all the new wizbang cartridges, and yes, there is some good ones that have appeared and yes for punching holes in paper I will gravitate towards the new super high B.C. chambering . Yet I just can not stray from the facts that I have been shooting a 18" kreiger 1-11" twisted barreled rifle. In a BAT ACTION for the better part of 10 years. I shoot a 168gr berger with this combo of parts, and inside 300 yards it's a .5" rifle.
I have fire 10 shoots into this time and time again On hundreds of occasions. So when it was time to go to work this is what I had. It was purpose build for engagements of 250yards or less. I have shot this rifle to 600 and it becomes a 1 MOA . But inside of 300 it's a laser beam that I will rebarrel time and time again. My point is when it works beyond what life expects its hard to change from what is 100%solid as a sunrise. The 308 will never lose its place in people's heart.
Love me my .308s, yes that’s plural. Haha
You shoot the 1-11 twist because it is been the Gold standard those bullets. It was clearly stated on record in that the 30-06 1-10 twist was an over spin for 150 and 168 bullets and that begins to show up more past 600 yards, also the long case design was not as efficient. I know the 308 is BETTER than the 6.5 HYPEMORE. The military knows this. My best 308 load for my bolt action is the best load for my CMMG AR10 type rifle.
I'm thinking about cutting down my 308 Remington 700 to 18 inches, but I have also been thinking about getting it rebarreled to a better cartridge. The only problem is that I can't figure out what cartridge that would be. What is worth the update from the 308? I thought about 6.5 Mememoor, 243Win, 6 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, and even 338 federal, but I just can't justify changing calibers. Nothing really works better than 308 when fired from a shorter barrel. XD
I love me a heavy 16" barrel on my 308s! Thanks for the load data.
I have been shooting 45.0 grains of IMR 4064 and a 165 grain bullet for decades. It shoots good in every gun I have fired it in and is 2800 fps in my Weatherby Meat eater. My favorite barrel length to hunt with is 22 inches.
IMR 4064 and a 165/168 gr bullet is a great combo!
You and Guy sure make a great team! I have started watching you chanel a lot more since he has joined! He has a lot of knowledge in different fields of shooting which gives your chanel a lot more depth! In my short 60+ years of hunting, collecting and reloading and still getting to learn new things!
Yes! Glad to have Guy!
@@Ultimatereloader - me too! ;)
Greetings from a few hours north of you folks, thanks for the video. We've had a .308 18½" carbine in the safe for more than 40 years, usually using 130gr to 173gr bullets. For Okanagan deer we settled on 165gr Hornday Interlocks and they worked fine. A couple years back I loaded up some 130gr TTSX in it but so far haven't tested them on anything. There is a bit more muzzle blast for sure with the shorter barrel, but it is a very handy length for both packing around and in thicker cover. Best to you both.
Thanks for the good comments!
Living in Aussie Land, I have allot of centrefire rifles with barrels from 12 inches to 16 inches . My 4000 acres I have very heavy scrub , So longs shots for me are 100 yds... with most shots from 25-50 yds. Short barreled rifles just make sense , Just wish we could run suppressed. I can also confirm that no feral pig, dog, deer or goat with my 12 inch barreled 45-70 noticed the velocity loss of the 300 grain hollow point , Same for my 15 inch barrelled 308 with a 200 grain soft point.
Does it require a special permit or license to have a short barrel like that? Here in the US anything under 16” is considered an SBR and needs an extra payment and paperwork to make legal. No suppressors in the outback huh?
@@arm_usa Not in my state... Only requirement is the overall length ...... Suppressors here are Cat R, Same as a machine gun.. But other states allow feral pest controllers and farmers to have a suppressed firearm due to workplace health and safety guidelines on noise . But since i posted this, I cant even have a bb gun.. The government refused to renew my license.
Guy Miner is one of my favorite cast members of Ultimate Reloader; the content he is a part of is always top notch!
I live in a state where suppressors aren't allowed. So I go with the longer barrels on my rifles. For hearing protection I use electronic ear plugs that cam amplify ambient sounds but shut of the amplification when they hear the shots. Best of both worlds and no restrictions on them.
I do the same. :)
Ear protection is always a good idea. If it's one shot, so be it. But I have never ever ever shot a rifle cartridge that is quiet enough to not potentially damage hearing. Even a 223 is loud. Both long or short. Muzzle break, no muzzle break. Crown, no crown, etc, etc. Is it less? Maybe but still not enough that it wont do damage. 22lr in a rifle length is barely acceptable.
If I can’t have both I choose short supressed. For ethical hunting distances it’s just fine. Ive had experience with 130gr TTSX on deer. Awesome bullet.
Hi Gaven, My brother and I built a shorty. Remington 700 308 varmint profile. Both of us worked together to shorten and Re-crown to 18". 20 years ago. I shoot a Unitaugh Precision, 300 BO, 16" Shilen 30 cal. Match blank. You only get 200 FPS less with half the powder. 16 to 23 g instead of 40+. I am using it to learn free recoil style of shooting. Keep it up. You bring your own prospective to yo tube.
What weight bullets are you shooting in your 300 BO
I've been running a 15.5" Model 7 in 308 for a few years now. Running a 9" long Gunworks overbarrel suppressor and Speer 165 BTSP at 2450. It's just under 1 meter long and super handy in the bush, but still got enough legs to go to 300 yards if I need to.
The 130 TSX have worked well for me in 308. They are also fun in 300 WSM. I've used them for spike elk. Shoots flatter than my 220 Swift out to 400 yds.
I absolutely love 16 inch .308s suppressed! Nice build 👍
Prior to your shorty build I sent an older 700 action to Pac Nor for a 16 inch 308. I went with a 1/12 twist for the lighter side of bullets. Mainly deer and coyotes here in North Texas. Varmint profile cut at 16.25 is a little heavier than I thought. My Dead Air Sandman TI has been on for every shot so far. Loading 125 hp with Varget into LC brass. Thanks for sharing the pistol loading page I had no idea it was there.
Hodgdon's 15" .308 pistol data is real useful if building a stubby 16" rifle. Seems like you got yourself one heck of a rifle. My "Green Machine" is also a 1:12 twist, works fine with up to 175/180 gr bullets, but normally I run 168's or lighter.
PAC Nor makes great barrels and a very reasonable price! Craig Boddington used them on several of his guns!
Love this video and the shorty build.
I purchased a Howa 1500 .308-16 inch, waiting for the Bell & Carlson stock to arrive. In my neck of the woods, shorter is just more practical.
The ammunition data is probably going to save me time and money 💰
Thanks for that 👍🏼
Remington model seven 308,16.5 in barrel, lightweight 3-9x scope because if I need to shoot past 400 yds I grabbed the wrong gun. I like a 150 grain sst over 50 grains cfe 223, think they came out at 2750fps nice 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards.
Short rifles like this are common in NZ for Bush hunting. Loads of old cut down Lee Enfields still in use as well as they still kill deer and no point beating up a flash rifle crashing around in the bush if your only shooting 20 to 50m.
I’ve taken the same approach with my 7-08
I just have a very old stock Rem 7400 308 that I just love for hunting...... but I do LOVE Gavin's 16" rifle..... looks so BADASS!!!
This is great I got the "new" Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 with the 16 inch barrel and it was my go to hunting rifle last season. I just started to reload and thanks for showing what it cN do. I have a 150g Interlock with Varget. Super cool to see what it can do.
Wait....I have to choose? My son-in-law Seth Gardner (D-M Targets) persuaded me to go 24" on my 308 PRS build, but I also have an 18" gas 308 so best of both worlds. It took me a while to get used to the 24" barrel, but I would not change a thing now. Accuracy potential is excellent and I hope to start working on hand loads this winter. Great content and thanks for the data points.
Seth is a rock star :) Thanks for watching!!!
The 125 grain accubond is my goto .30 deer bullet...I do use the BTs in .300 BLK
I love this channel, I've been a subscriber for years. It's cost me thousands and thousands of dollars, and I'm happy about every purchase I've made.
I'm about to finish up my 308 project. A Rem 700 SPS Tactical, glass bedded Bell and Carlson long range tactical stock Mathews cheek riser, Triggertech Special, Arken ep5. Sadly, suppressors aren't legal in this state.
Working up loads in Laupa brass using XBR and Varget. 168 smk and 165 Ganekings. Picked up a magneto speed v3 to help find a node.
Because there isn't a range over 300 yards where I'm at that's going to have to do unfortunately. I will be using this setup for hogs too. Can't wait for the weekend to get to the range and collect some data.
Keep up the good work, I really appreciate the content you guys are putting out, especially during these crazy times with this format censoring all the best channels.
I run a Remington 700 with a 24" because of the velocity I can get out of it. It rivals my 7 mag in a couple of areas and is just a little bit shorter and lighter. I started hunting with Walker Razor electric ear buds and never felt the need to bother with a suppressor. And yes I have suppressors so I know what they can do.
Good to know those work. I have hunted and target shot a 20" heavy fluted factory barrel Savage FCP for around 6 year's. Polished bolt assembly and trigger with a mod. Everything else is factory. Older with no threaded barrel and with how it shoots I will not touch it. From 45.0 gr to 46.0 gr it shot between .188 and .3 something 3 shot groups with POI not changing but very little, 1/8" at most when testing. I run 175gr SMK in Lapua brass lit with CCI #200 primer @ 2.800". It has been out to 1200 yards on many occasion and 1000 even more. I run a 168gr for hunting now. I have run 150gr. It is pretty close to the perfect all around Whitetail rifle for my neck of the woods. Appreciate the heads up on the Walker Razor.
Shorty 16-18in carbon barreled 308 with 5in can is my dream mountian gun...125 to 150gr mono or good hunting bullet is more then enough for typical hunting distances
Awesome video and information! I would love to see this kind of test with a more over-bore cartridge, like .243, or .25-06, or any of the 7mm or .300 Magnums! Keep up the good work!
I have a 16 3/4” .270 win I cut down I haven’t gotten around to chronoing it but one article I read said to expect 2800fps from 130 grain bullets.
Not sure what happens with modern powders but years back most people assumed that you needed a 26-28 " barrel to get full potential out of a 25-06
I built a TC Encore with a 28 inch threaded heavy barrel and I plan on hunting with Nosler 125 BT hunting bullet.
Your guys should try some of the CFE 223 powder... found with shorter barrels was getting better volcity than some of the other powders..
Love the look of that stock but the cost on them is a little steep for me...
i guess the things i’ve heard about suppressors canceling out the short barrel lower fps numbers are wrong. Good to learn. For some reason I had thought that putting the suppressor effectively turns it back into longer barrel ballistics. Yes, very good to learn!
Nice build! I like my 22" barrel. Really like the concept of the shorty, though. Interesting results on the velocity. I think the shortest I'd go is 20". Maybe 18... You have me thinking. Also, I've had excellent accuracy/velocity results with the Barnes TTSX 165gr and RRLP 150gr.
Ya, the thing about cutting a few inches of barrel off... It won't grow back! :)
So if my math is right 16 inches is 66.5% (roughly) of 24 and on these velocities the 16 inch barrel is producing roughly 91% to 93% of the 24 inch barrel to me that’s a respectable ratio of weight and length reduction while keeping decent velocity’s
It really depends what you're doing with the rifle. I myself probably don't go any shorter than about 18 inches. If you're in a tree stand or a ground blind a compact rifle is handy. I like velocity when you're shooting at distances over 300 yards. Great video guys.😊
Ditto
@@nozrep a quality scope won't have an issue with a bump to a ladder.
Good vid guys. I really like my shorty, old school Rem model seven in 7mm, 18" barrel. It can be carried all day long and it drops deer on the spot. I personally wouldn't add weight by putting a suppressor or large tactical scope on it.
Thank you for making this video. I really enjoyed it. I would take shorty all day every day! It is a great build.
Thank you for watching!
Great video, I really like Guy, enjoy his perspective being a Swat Snipper and also being a hunter. I have a 16in 308 and absolutely love it. Everything you guys said is spot on! Keep the videos rolling! 🇺🇸
Thanks for watching!
Impressive handloads! The performance of that 168 Midsouth is better than most 150s!
It shot really well, but I caution that my loads were at the top end. I'd recommend carefully working up to my loads, which were the max according to Hodgdon. Normally I don't go that high with Varget and a 168, I stay a grain lower than that for my favorite loads.
Hello to the both, looks as though you fellas are having fun once again
Awesome video, thanks! I'm an old-school .308 fan-boy and love rifles with barrels of pretty much all lengths. While I do naturally gravitate towards longer-barreled models, I must admit that for my area (GMNF in VT), the Shorty would be more than adequate, and much fun to schlep over hill and dale. Cheers!
I found that 18" really brings noticeably more performance to the table than 16" and nearly the same as 20 to 24" barrels without sacrificing mobility.
In an ar10 platform the 18inch barrel lets you have the rifle length gas system over the mid length which i find is the most practical.
You can do 16" RLGS or ILGS if you want more optimum port pressure and cycling of the action.
@@LRRPFco52 i wouldn't really take my chances with it in my opinion
@@Shark_Theory Fulton Armory offered 16" RLGS barrels. It's ideal for suppressed use.
@@LRRPFco52 true
Why is this video not on Rumble?
A 20 MOA picatinny rail , a 16" barrel 1-11.25 rifling , plus an EC tunner and a supressor , a good stock with adjustable length of pull and cheek piece , a Timney trigger , an Atlas bipod and 168 grain ammo .
I'm a big fan of the 20" barrel 308 still handy with decent velocity, with my hunting 150 yards would be a fair poke so something easy to carry and point is a good choice
I actually just finished my stubby 308 build as well. similar to yours but i did a carbon fiber barrel and stock. total weight with glass is 7.2lbs for backpack hunting out to a few hundred yards. plan on running suppressed as well. I actually uploaded a video on my channel of some velocities with 6 different box ammo. I have a 14.75" barrel with pin & welded muzzle device for the silencerco cans which brings length to 16.5. No where near the quality of videos you put out, but it is good to get this info out there. I have come across little to no info about velocities with stubby 308 rifles when I started my journey. Funny that you started posting your build after I ordered my components for mine. nice to see some other velocities. and huge help about the hodgdons pistol 308 load data on their website. I had no idea.
I have a Encore Pro Hunter with a 15.5" 308 barrel. I had my Dead Air muzzle brake pinned and welded to meet 16". I use my Silencer Co Hybrid on it and it love's the Hornady precision hunter 168gr. I also use a primary arms 3x micro prism with the griffin reticle. This is my preferred deer rifle to hunt here in the Ozarks of North Arkansas. With this setup I can punch a milk jug at 300 yds.
That seems like a terrific setup! I really ought to get a TC Encore someday...
@@guyminer3168 if you can find one. S&W dropped Thompson Center because they wanted to put more money into other projects. Because S&W is changing in quality control and they dropped TC I'll never purchase anything from S&W again. Now E. Author Brown has a website where you can get barrel's and some times he might have an action or two. Get one before they become an expensive unicorn.
building ruger american 308 on a bell carlson stock and had it threaded. waiting on atf for suppressor. your info has made my decision to do this uplifting. the ruger has an 18 inch barrel. thanks for the reloading info also.
The Ruger American is a great platform upon which to build! Best of luck to you this coming season.
I just completed a rifle build for the Germam woods (shot range 200 m and in):
Tikka T3x stainless, .308, 17" barrel, HAUSKEN 184 overbarrel suppressor bedded in a T3 laminated stock (for better balance).
Topped wit a Schmid & Bender Zenith 3-12x50 FFP scope and FD 7 reticle.
Ammo: Barnes TSX 150 gn with 44 gn of Vihtavuori N140 powder @ 2500 fps (estimated MV).
Should expand reliably at least up to 210 m (@ 2000 fps). Groups .4 MOA.
Best regards, K.
I just picked up a Ruger American Predator in .308 with a 16” barrel. Put it in a Magpul stock and figuring out which scope now. Will be a perfect deer rifle in PA where most shots are under 100 yds. Will be great for hiking around in thick forests where I live.
Cool! That does seem like a useful rifle!
I'd happily take shorty with a suppressor, especially since I'm in the middle of building a 14.5" in 6.5 Creedmoor with a folding stock to run suppressed for white tail. The max range I might spot a deer is 150ish yards if all the trees were lined up just right. A nice little compact rifle to have in a truck with 4 other people who all have 24 or 26 inch barrels.
Another great video that is very interesting. I recently purchased a 308 Weatherby Vanguard with a 20 inch barrel. So I assume the velocities will be right in the middle of your data. That 125 ballistic top is really on my radar now. Really enjoy your videos with Guy on there.
my bolt 308 is my reach out 24" heavy barrel. my 16" is on my ar10 platform for punching hard inside 500mtrs
I have a 24in 308. It shows its strength well in that length when hunting is not a 100yd deer stand hunt. Same for the 30-06.
Absolutely. A 308 with a short little barrel becomes a gelding. I have a 22" and 24" 308. Both are fine, accurate, etc. The 24" has outstanding velocity. It reaches the REAL performance potential of the cartridge. The 22" has become my 100yd feeder / stand setup on my ranch for wild hogs that come by the feeder AND I load it down a bit because the distance is so close, just to save a bit on recoil.
TY for the tests. I can only shoot up to 600yrd.. LOVE me some 168 SMK. all from 22 in Kreiger M1A.
Got 24 inch and 16 inch barrel I like the 16 inch barrel for me. I can moving around better in brush. Open land magnum round 24 inch barrel for long distance shooting. For pronghorn hunting
Gavin, great video. Considering apples. Can you please explain the relationship between barrel twist and fps? Your shorty barrel had a 1-8 barrel twist vs standard 1-12 barrel twist.
Good question. I was pondering that myself.
I have a 308 Troy Pump Action with a 16 inch 11.25 twist - about 2400fps with 180gn bullets shooting about 2 MoA... But it prints horrible with even 168 and lighter bullets. I was contemplating getting new barrel. Maybe 18 inch and 1:10 twist so I'd love to learn more
Bryan Litz did extensive testing on the subject. Story short, faster vs slower twist rates result in very minor velocity loss, along the lines of 5fps. Basically, it's absolutely nothing to worry about or even consider as a factor.
Nice build. Out East and most Ontario huntin is done in the woods, short, light and handy is best.
A good way to drop weight is to ditch the big scope and out a lightweight compact on. 2-7 x scope is ideal.
I did some work this year trying to maximize performance in an 18" 308 with 155 grain Match Monsters. Ramshorn TAC, IMR 8208XBR, and Shooters World Tactical Rifle would safely get over 2700 fps in that barrel length.
People are and have been finding this out. The model 7 remington in 7mm-08 in 1981 had a 18 1/2 inch barrel. I used this one to fill cooler
120gr hp was my go to load in front of 4064 IMR. Out to 400yd's I could see impact. No kick just fun to shoot
I now use 20 inch barrel and for me this is the sweet spot. Funny how rem. Came up with an idea that just now has come to light. And 30-30 bullets in a 308 reduced load will also kick butt out to 200yds.
Here in New Zealand, a 16 inch barrel .308 (suppressed) is very common and standard issue for bush hunting. Most of this style of hunting is limited to 200 yards, but skilled hunters using custom reloads can ethically push it out to double this distance. Tikka even produce a rifle with a threaded 16 inch barrel just for our market.
I hunt with a suppressed 6.5 CM shorty. I rushed right to the website to look but they dont offer load data for shorter 6.5’s. If you guys are looking for another show to do it be great to find a good fast burning powder that burns up before the bullet reaches the end of the barrel
I had a .308 shorty built on a Mauser 98 action years ago. Used a pull off Sendero barrel 12 twist cut and rethreaded for the 98 later I put it back in the shop for muzzle threads 5/8 x 24 for a suppressor. It's slightly longer than 16". Shoot 150 grain Winchester Power Points and Barnes 150's both loaded with Varget same charge weight and impact literally in the same place. Through a SRT suppressor recoil is soft and for short range efficient on South Texas critters. I never chronographed any loads I figured a couple of hundred feet slower the deer I shot never had any bullets to recover all went through mostly close range brush shots. I have a lot of light bullets for Blackout may load some in it and give them a try. I did some subsonic loads with Trail Boss and Hornady round nose projectiles that had been hollow pointed but stuck with my Blackout too easy to load them. I like the shorty you built it would make a good rig for pig eradication.
For hunting, 16 woods hunting, CQB counter sniper
For target and / or longer distance hunting, wide open space hunting, longer barrel like the 24-inch
Would like to see the same load for maybe a 30-inch 308 barrel. When would you possibly start to lose velocity? at what barrel length ? Or would you add more velocity beyond a 24-inch barrel
Oh my goodness, you're taking me back a lot of years when I was shooting matches with a 30" 1:13 twist "tight bore" Krieger... We were trying to squeeze all we could from a 308 Winchester and a 155 grain bullet to comply with Palma requirements... Yes, the 30" barrel worked very well with the 308 Winchester. It might take me a while to look up what my velocity was with that barrel... Not sure I even have it anymore, but I know that I was getting over 3,000 fps from a 155, with excellent accuracy.
how about a stout 308 bullet like a partition, for brush and bush short range stalking.
That would be great too - and one nice thing about the Partition is that the front portion expands readily. The 130 grain Barnes TTSX is a surprisingly sturdy bullet, being all copper with no lead.
I hunt elk and muleys in the mountains of western Wyoming. That shorty is pretty much the perfect rifle. I do like the ttsx buletts but might just choose 150 grain for that extra penetration on elk. Even for antelope, our hilly unit almost always yields sub-400 yard shots and that thing would be ideal. I might just build something like that myself…
Nice work.
Western Wyoming is just terrific! I've hunted elk and mule deer there myself, and wet a fly line more than once as well. Best of luck this coming season!
I've got a old Hodgdon load manual that has .308 pistol data that is before the T/C encore was built and marketed. It lists a 14 inch barrel on a contender frame about 18-24 months before the encore was being first released. I've got decent velocity out of the 15 inch barrel and it was more than adequate for 265 yards with a zero at just over the 200 mark. I was able to keep 20 out of 20 shots in a 6 inch steel target with most inside the 4 inch.
Great work on Shorty ! Gotta love how versatile that is!
I've been playing with the 130 TTSX in a Sig Cross 16". I hit 2940 before I ran out of room in a Lapua case with Varget. Great node at 2920 and no pressure at all. I've been pretty impressed with it on paper out to 400 yards. This season will prove or not. Big departure from the standard 168/175 I normally shoot. It's been a fun time
Rem 700 .308 VSSF 26” barrel is my go to moose gun, 150 ttsx with max charge of Varget sub 1/2moa. Long barrel feels nice when I have had to off hand shoot moose, steady like a long shotgun barrel on waterfowl. Also use an 18” savage 308 scout when I know I’m going to do a lot of traveling through the woods or on snow machine. Good ole 06’ 22” barrel stands right in the middle of those two and I can’t argue against that
"Good" comes in different barrel lengths for sure.
I love compacts. My 16” Ruger Gunsite Scout is nice and short, even with the Dead Air Sandman K, and fits on my 4 wheeler nicely. Compared to my Daniel Defense Delta 5 with 24” barrel and 9” Silencerco suppressor. I was backing my 4 wheeler out of the shed the first time I took the Delta 5 out and the suppressor whacks the side of the door and the whole rifle almost falls off the 4 wheeler. Mental note made…
In New Zealand Tikka sell a factory 16" threaded .308 called the "bush hunter". Shortened barrels to 16-18" particularly in .308 have been very popular for a long time in NZ thanks to our thick dense bush which makes carrying a full length rifle a nightmare. 20" 7mm rem mag is also becoming very popular.
Supressors are also very popular because we bush stalk and so you need to be able to hear everything and there's no time for hearing protection when you've just spotted a deer at 10m and they're staring at you
This is great info. I traded a friend for his barley use Desert Tec srs covert in .308 with a 16in barrel. I'm in the west where you stretch out your shots. I think the nosler 125 b-tip will be tested for cyotes and Jacks. Thanks fellas super work.
I hacked my 22" barrel down 19 and had my buddy re- crown it. Its handy as hell. I wish you tested more 150 gr.
I built my latest 308 in the AR platform with 18" bbl and a Silencer Co Saker 762 topped with a Vortex 1-8 strike eagle LPVO.
I’ve been looking at the Tika Hunter .308 Winchester . I mostly just hunt whitetail deer in northern Michigan and don’t really need anything more than what the .308 is capable of doing. Even if I do decide to elk hunt / black bear , it will get the job done ✅
Some of the features that I like are that the Tika is offered in several different varieties of wood or synthetic stocks , it has a 1 in 11” barrel twist ( I’ve had 1 in 10 “ and 1 in 12” and this 1 in 11” I guess is Tikkas answer to the perfect compromise between the two which will certainly handle anything from 150 grain up to 175 grain bullets )
They offer 20” or 22” barrel options threaded with a break or non threaded , and I’d personally choose the 22” length barrel which pretty much burns the powder achieving optimum velocities ( you say about 25 fps per inch of barrel length in loss of velocity so , minus 2” from the 24” barrel only losing 50 fps , I don’t think that’s anything significant enough to amount to any loss in cartridge performance, not when you’re talking about realistic hunting distances that wouldn’t equate to more than 400 yards max , and most within 100 yards )
As far as threaded with a break , I’ll pass just because that increases cost and I’m not shooting competitively or worried about excessive recoil , not to mention it adds unnecessary barrel length that can hinder your ability to quickly acquire moving targets in real world hunting situations. 22” barrel seems to hit the sweet spot in barrel lengths for most practical applications for hunting or target shooting.
There are so many options for .308 rifles as well as ammunition choices , you just can’t go wrong with a .308 Winchester. I’ve contemplated the 7mm-08 but this day and age with the limited ammo selection for that caliber , I think staying with the good ol venerable .308 Winchester is the right choice .
Edit : one last thing I really like about the Tika is the detachable box magazine, as I’ve never been a fan of hinged floor plate type rifles . And the bolt action is superb ! Buttery smooth !
Tika makes a terrific rifle and I would not even try to talk you out of your choice! Enjoy.
@@guyminer3168 thanks for your feedback and reinforcing my choice !
Now the trick is finding one that’s available in this crazy world today .
Great video and right down my alley. Ive been trying different loads in a POF Revolution DI with a 16.5" barrel. Its pretty much sub moa with any decent quality load and will shoot close to 1/2" with Norma 168 and 175 match. I'd like to see you guys work up a load with the Barns 110 grain TTSX and get your thoughts. As you mentioned they're a solid copper bullet and retain virtually 100% of their weight. Load data suggests that its possible to almost emulate 130 grain.270 ballistics out of a 16" barrel with this bullet. At least out to reasonable hunting ranges.
We anticipate using more Barnes bullets in the near future! :)
I had/have a Remington model 700 BDL with a 24” bull barrel in .308, I had a gunsmith trim the barrel down to 18” and turned down to a sporter style barrel. The accuracy was amazing before I had this work done, after I got the rifle back from the gunsmith the accuracy never changed one little bit.
I reload 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip boat tails, I use this round to hunt everything I can get a tag for. I Load 46.5 grains of IMR 4064 and my velocity is on average 2834fps. I zeroed this round in for 300 yards, this is the gun I use all of the time to hunt, even though I use a Ruger in .280 REM with 22” barrel or another Ruger in 7mm-08 with an 18” barrel that I have as backups if something were to happen to the REM .308. I love the short barreled rifles.
Gavin get a dirty 30 from witt machine. You can run a 20” barrel suppressor included.
Ran across a video talking about the .358 win. Would like some more info on that. I know it’s a necked up .308 case.
An excellent and unnder-appreciated hunting cartridge. A buddy of mine has taken a lot of elk, some mule deer and a couple of bear with his.
i have an ar10 with 16in, sig cross 16in ,and a mrad 17in. currently trying to decide between 168/175 smk or go heavy 190's. loaded long with varget. i also have a bunch of vv n-133. not too much data with fast powder and 168's. but im going to try it.
In a stand/blind, without the suppressor your eyes and ears will like the muzzle being as far out the portal as possible. The shorty with suppressor is far easier, 2 inches is a lot in a cramped box, to thread through that portal.
I use the 130 ttsx .308 in my 18" daniel defense. Longest shot has been just shy of 200m. I've dumped every deer within a few yards.
I have multiple 308s , great video and very informative. I use the match monsters and I just found my first pound of Varget after years of searching.😂
Would be interesting to see the same build in a 30-06. Should do better with heavier bullets and yield higher velocities
That would be interesting, my great uncle told me that the extra case capacity was to compensate for the lower quality powders back when the 30-06 came out.
Oddly the most common barrel length on a 308 is 22 inches. I understand short barrels suppressed is a thing now. Not a bad rig for shorter ranged hunting with enough power to do the job. The 24 inch is definitely the better not being suppressed. Entertaining video. BTW pistol data for rifle cartridges is available because of the Thompson Center Pistols.
Also Rem XP100 bolt pistol for the metallic silhouette crowd back when that was popular; they wildcatted what became the 7mm-08, among others.
20 “ factory barrel 11 twist sako, 168gr ELDM and 45.5 grs of varget, 2670 fps is all I could get from it, but it was a nice accurate load.
I get 20fps less with my 20” Remington 700. 1:12 twist w a max varget charge. Same projectile. Same as you though. Accurate load.
Guy Miner's outfit in this video is awesome! I really enjoy him on UR
I hunt with a browning xbolt 308, 20in barrel with an overbarrel surpressor. Its a nice length, and fantastic balance.
I shoot a BLR81 in 308, 20" barrel, and I like Federal168 BTSP. Sometimes I'll run 150 SP
The BLR is a cool rifle!
Gavin and Guy. Your reference to data that was relevant to International and NRA silhouette 45+ years ago ( however not available as complete back then 70’s) was especially interesting, having developed some bolt pistols using Remington XP and Wichita actions.
Settling on .257 Roberts as FL .308 recoil quite stiff. WITH 15” bbls resulting in MOA. Later a few of those fire arms were converted to 16.25 in barreled rifles in various calibers. Your specifics to bullet choices and practical ranges will surely inspire some “ Shorty bolt guns”
BTW the esthetics of your build from stock, magazine, suppressor resonates “ who will build one of those. At a time of all the 1000 yd shooting, practical hunting and recreational custom rifles with 16.25 bbls will find a bitch. Currently own several examples of short rifles in .350 legend and .308. Always appreciate inspiration of Gavin and Guy on Ultimate Reloader. The Scientifically based testing benchmark on line ballistic education.
“nitch”
@@jerrymoran8323 - I have to admit grinning upon reading the typo. :)
I like this comparison of barrel lenths and velocity. Currently I have a 20" barrel Desert Tech MDRXCOM. I have been looking at getting a FIMS .308, which is also a bullpup if I cannot raise the budget for the Desert Tech SRS A2 or M2. I like how the bullpup gives a shorter overall length with a 20" barrel. The SRS can be had with a 26" barrel. I don't have a hearing conservation suppressor. But might get one for use in a suppressor friendly State that some of my relatives live in.
My more conventional rifles have 22" barrels. And being bolt action, I believe I can take those on a camping trip to Alaska over the Alcan highway.
I believe that you can. I took a bolt action 30-06 through Canada to Alaska in 2017 and shot a great interior grizzly with it. You've got some terrific rifles.
I like the Steyr scout supressed, though that free floated whip thin barrel you get POI shift. Within 5 shots it keeps .6 MOA but you have to use the 300yd bdc if sighted at 100.
For in the woods shorty for sure. Open country green machine. I would test multiple bullets to find the one it likes best then ajust seating depth to fine tune.
Hi I run a 20” barrel in .308 with 110 vmax at 3200 fps with n133 I am planning on cutting back to 16” as my main foxing gun easy to handle
The 168 gr Speer Gold Dot is a great bullet for .308. Very accurate bonded bullet. The hardest part is finding them.
Good to know. I've never tried them.
@@guyminer3168 they are essentially the same bullet as the Federal Fusion with a matte finish.
I really like my browning BLR in 358. (20") its sort of a 308. My shots on game aren't far enough for a longer barrel to be practical or necessary. Furthest shot ive ever taken on a big game animal is 137 yards... Ive taken way more shots @ trad bow distances then over 100yrd. Weight and mobility are king for me.
358 is an under-appreciated hunting cartridge. Buddy of mine has a Browning BLR so chambered and has taken a lot of elk a few mule deer and a couple of black bear with it.
A shorty is in the works for me. I have been planning this for some time. I have a Nomad-L, which is spectacular, that I will be attaching to the business end. The nomad is so good, I can stand next to (to the side of) the muzzle end of my 300 win mag when my son shoots it. This is without ears. I have sensitive ears already (occupation), and I have zero discomfort. 556 through the same suppressor is an entirely different story... In any case, it should be mentioned that a suppressor acts like added barrel length and increases velocity. I was planning to go 16, but after seeing this video, I think that I may go 18. I am only trying to keep the package roughly the same size as a standard rifle, as well as cutting down on weight. I do not believe that 2 more inches is going to be that much more unwieldy for my application. You have done a really good job on the rifle, and I sure appreciate the information from you both.
I prefer the shorter barrels. I'll take a slight ding in velocity in favor of weildability.
I'm get n 2932 wit 41.5grs of 4198 and 2868 wit 40grs of 4198. And 2885 wit 41grs of RL7 in a 16.25'' barrel and 130gr TTSX.
Well my DPMS AR10 has the 24" fluted barrel and it is a nice shooter even though it is heavier and longer!
The suppressor does add the length back to the overall!
Gavin I'm surprised that no one makes a suppressor that has a rear chamber which is behind the muzzle and over the barrel somewhat making the suppressor shorter forward of the bore.
As the gas is stripped by the first area, that gas could be pushed through open ports and directed to that rear chamber as the bullet continues across the other chambers. Might be something to consider to keep things even shorter.
Good idea. I wonder if it would make the barrel to hot??
I’ve got a DPMS AR15 that is 24 inch barrel…. It’s ridiculously heavy but it shoots good
There are reflex 308 suppressors out there and some are better (mounting) for semiautos and some indeed reduce forward of muzzle length while others just increase volume. Just search 308 reflex suppressor to find them.