I did find it very helpful. Im changing out a rusted evap coil in my attic. I already did a pump down on my outside Rheem unit. I will have to look around for a N bottle. I think i have everything else. I am a retired petroleum engineer, bought some rental property a few years ago and have taught myself to do about everything event the HVAC maintenance. Thanks everyone!
I've never dealt with A/C units but with your help, I think I can do it. Have you ever thought about teaching at a vocational school? You would not have a problem. Thanks
You're amazing thank you so much for helping people I've been searching and I think I can get a lot of answers from your videos cuz I just can't afford to have someone else do the work but I really need it done bad thanks again
I was taught that immediately cooling the copper is bad practice, i cant remember the reason, but i believe to let the joint anneal. You're supposed to allow 10 seconds to a minute before cooling. Basically once the color changes, not letting it anneal allows the metal to be stressed and any vibrations could weaken the joint
Misconception. Your micron is not something that can act as a leak detector. It is your primary leak detector. If you had 300 marbles, and I took 5 you'd never notice. (a 300# pressure test) If you have a leak it might not show up on a 300# gage in 30 minutes; but it will over 5 weeks. Thats a call back. If you had 4 marbles and I took 1 you'd notice immediately. A micron gage will reveal not only moisture, but small leaks. A 300# test is cutting with a butter knife, a micron gage a scalpel.
Great way of explaining that! Thanks so much for sharing. I’m going to be picking up the Fieldpiece digital gauges soon that have the built in micron gauge so I don’t have to have a separate instrument anymore. That will be nice. Since this video I’ve implemented the 10 minute micron test. If it doesn’t go over 500 in that 10 minutes we are golden.
Nowadays you must use nitrogen flow while brazing AC lines because of the different oil. POE oil peels the oxidation from the pipes and will clog the filters. The mineral oil used in the past doesn't peel the oxidation and this is why the systems ran for so long. I suggest you test the penetration of the alloy by cutting open some (test) fittings. You will understand why what you did can be improved
ABSOLUTELY. brazing with those oils will decimate the interior instantly and create so much carbon. It’s nasty looking. Even worse the longer heat is held, so doing steel to copper or copper to brass with 45% silv can look especially bad. In the factory, we always had to purge, then set to braze on every joint. We also had gas flux hooked up directly to put out while brazing, which made the joints so much cleaner. When I switched from manufacturing and went out into the field as a res tech, I was appalled at how so many techs not only don’t use nitrogen, but don’t even use an abrasive on the joint to clean it, no acetone, and they put their fingers all over the joint, even the guys that clean them, just putting skin oils on the pipe, which can create voids. Filler metal doesn’t respond well to oils. They also don’t debur or ream the pipe…so..very disappointing. I’ve seen them not use any heat sink, even while around inlets, etc., not wrapping components with moist rags, etc. there are so many poorly trained hacks now. It’s not entirely their fault; so many companies just don’t train well or enough.
@@portraitofman2063 You must be fresh out of tech school or something. Take a Percocet and relax you nerd dork. I have installed hundreds of units without flowing nitrogen over the span of twenty plus years. They are all running like a top. Skin oils creating voids🤣😂 I can't wait to tell the fellas that one🤣
I would remove the Schrader valves and also use atleast 15 percent silver for a stronger hold. They didn't use nitrogen with r22 because the oil in that refrigerant didn't cause oxidation like 410a does.
Really liked the video. Would love to see you do another system but show brazing the evap coil next time and maybe a video wiring up the condenser unit and the disconnect. I do have a question though. just wondering why you don't put the micron gauge onto the wet line and hock the pump to the suction line and pull your vacuum that way?
I do it this way because once the vacuum is pulled, I open the valves to let the freon in, and the freon fills the hot and cold hoses. This way, my gauge valves are both closed and when I let the freon into the system, it will not let freon into the micron gauge which would really mess it up. I’ll be doing two full installs in April, so I’ll definitely be filming the whole ac install process. So make sure and subscribe to the channel if you haven’t yet! Cheers
Installed hundreds of residential a/c units over the course of twenty plus years without ever flowing nitrogen. They are all running like a top and never had a call back. The HVAC industry will make things out to be a bigger deal than it is to push an industry standard. If you go to a technology school for havc they will pound into your head that soft soldering isn't strong enough and the joints will leak. This is another industry standard that is pushed that is not true. Higher silver content soft solders are easily strong enough to outlast the entire life of the system.
16:00 - so you went down to under 500 microns and immediately released refrigerant without a standing decay test which is required by most of manufacturers. 10 min holding under 500 microns is a default step. From a Goodman installation manual, example: "Connect the vacuum pump with 250 micron capability to the service valves. 2. Evacuate the system to 250 microns or less using suction and liquid service valves. Using both valves is necessary as some compressors create a mechanical seal separating the sides of the system. 3. Close pump valve and hold vacuum for 10 minutes. Typically pressure will rise during this period". Not doing it voids the warranty pretty much. Standing pressure test or at least leak testing with nitrogen is skipped as well. Also it looks like your micron gauge is installed closest to your vacuum pump, not on the lineset using a T/CRT as close to the system as possible. That CPS fitting allows that. Did you remove the Schrader cores? Goodman requires that: "Remove Schrader valves from service valves before brazing tubes to the valves" Videos like these are used during lessons at HVAC schools to show obvious mistakes. Sorry and thank you for your video regardless.
You are mistaken on this voiding the warranty. Explain to me how a manufacturer would verify that was done? Lol This video was how to braze lineset with a nitrogen flow, some of the other things in the video was supplementary but I was trying to show how to braze primarily. I do appreciate your input and I have since found that doing a vacuum hold test is a good thing and will do that but will it not work good if it isn’t done, or void the warranty? Absolutely not.
@@wasatchmotoco "Goodman is not responsible for: 1. Damage or repairs required as a consequence of faulty installation or application". All HVAC manufacturers have similar clauses. Were you paid by a homeowner to do the installation, just curious? Can you confirm here for us and the homeowner who paid you that you followed all the installation steps, required by manufacturer? I wish all the installers film their installations so people can sue them in small claim court in 3-4 years down the road when the unit fails.
So you come to my videos and ask all these questions and then don’t answer mine? How does the manufacture determine any of this? They don’t! It’s all based on the contractors relationship with the dealer. If it’s registered, it’s covered. Now if someone said they wanted to warranty a unit that was smashed in on the side that obviously would be another story. But Schrader valves and not doing a micron test? Come on man.
@@diyhvacguy Manufacturer can absolutely see compressor damage due to moisture contamination or TXV valve being clogged with oxidation flakes due to "you don't really need to use nitrogen while brazing", or melted valve seals. May I ask you a question. ANything wrong you can see in 1 to 5 below: 1. Customer pays the installer for the equipment and the installation, assuming that installation is to be done correctly and the equipment is to last trouble free for 10-15 years. They sign a contract. 2. Installer performs installation not following manufacturer manuals and also ignoring basic industry standards. 3. Installer takes full payment claiming that everything was done properly 4. System has moisture contamination and refrigerant leak. System never runs at full expected efficiency, costs more money to run to the customer, but still provides an acceptable level of cooling so customer is happy 5. After 4-6 years down the road (at year 2 a pound of R410A had to be added, original installer was not available so it was $300 charge from another guy) system has an unexpected issue with the compressor due to POE oil contamination. It is covered by warranty, so a HVAC tech has no choice but to replace the compressor which is provided by a local friendly dealer for free under warranty. Customer only needs to pay $2000 for labor. Don't you think that customer and the manufacturer are getting screwed by a dishonest installer?
@@deseremere I don’t know where you are pulling these hypotheticals from but you realize that every single unit made, is not perfect and “an unexpected issue with the compressor” can happen to a 100% by the book install. On the warranty claims, the dealer does not check if the valve stems were removed when brazing 10 years ago. How could they? And they sure as heck don’t check the freon for contamination. How could they and why would they? Also any reputable hvac contractor will stand behind his work. Just like the warranty has to do with the contractor/dealer relationship, the function of the system has to do with the contractor/owner relationship. Maybe you’ve seen guys get in this trade and then skip town or maybe you are one of them, but I’m not that guy. I stand behind my work. You sound like a very knowledgeable person and I appreciate your input and will look to incorporate these steps in future videos but I will never agree that they will create issues with the system. Cheers
I think cooling the braze with water immediatley after the torch could cause cracking in the joint, I render to wait a few more seconds for the temperature to drop in the metal. Of course you say youv'e done lots of them without a problem. Sort of like splashing water on a hot engine or lawnmower after running.
@@diyhvacguy Put a 90 degree bend in the Rod. It is easier to get behind the joint. I would use Harris 15 rod instead of the cheap 5%. The rod and joints are brittle with the cheap stuff, and the 15% flows much better.The nitrogen has nothing to do with the braze on the outside of the joint, it prevents oxidation inside the pipe. Do a joint without, and with nitrogen, then cut it open. If you purge properly, the nitrogen joint will be shiny like new money. The non purged joint will look like the outside of the joint and if you hold it down and tap it, scale will fall out. Some units have very small strainers before the metering device, and before the driers. If you have a lot of joints, especially when using hard ACR pipe instead of line sets, you will have a lot of scale. This scale also enters the compressor as there is no screen on the suction side. The copper scale is a conductor and can cause a burn out.
@@diyhvacguy that's what the rags are supposed to do, prevent damage to the valves, or you can remove the Schrader valve, let the pipe cool down a bit on its own
You’re smooth with it bro! Is there a reason you don’t take SVs out? I’m only curious. Seems like every place I work for has a different reason for doing anything. I’m so over their requests. Luckily I’m far enough into it to know the difference between a “that’s not going anywhere” and a call to someone when I don’t know what to do ya know?
Yesir, my apologies if it wasn’t super clear. I will 100% just be dedicating a video to just charging a new system. I’d be happy to walk you through that, but I might not actually do one to document units this spring. Anyways if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask and I’ll be happy to create some content about it! Cheers
Question I seen someone switch the nitrogen hose to the suction side when you're bracing the discharge and when he was braising the suction side he moved the nitrogen hose to the discharge line?
I am going to change out my evaporator coil and want flush my line sets before i braze new supply lines to coil. Can i flush the line sets and old evaporator coil before cutting line set from coil using the same method of nitrogen purge through service valves on condenser with schrader valves removed leaving one side open to outside air? Save me from doing each line separate. Question number two, can you flush the entire system including the condenser with flush kit?
You got all these tools, but you don't have valve core removers? At the end i noticed that drain line 90 is facing down onto the concrete, if that's not changed then there will be problems with that drain line I guarantee
You're cheating with that tubing bender. Back when I started we hade use the spring. But I like the looks of that bender. Has it ever kinked your lines? Plus I thought all Compressors had hard starter kits? At least I'm pretty sure mine has it. It does have the Capacitor. Also Thank for the comment about not purging the line while silfosing, or brasing. I would like to ask you one more thing. What about putting a filter dryer in? I believe that is what it's called. Plus you said something I tell all my apprentices about the heat. The solder, and the silfos follows the heat. You do very good work. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for sharing. I'm curious if you've ever come across jobs that used staybrite #8 solder instead of brazing, and if that's caused any problems. I see some people swearing that sb8 works great, and others say not to trust it.
Thanks for your comment. Funny that you mentioned that! I’m actually going to be testing it out next month on a system replacement. I’ve talked to several that swear by it, no need for nitrogen because it’s way lower heat and won’t turn the inside of the pipe black, and no need to lug around a huge tank set. Sounds like a game changer to me! Make sure and subscribe and click the bell so you can see when more info on that comes out soon. Cheers
On r22 solder was regularly used with 410 it’s been just braze due to the high pressure I’d like to see it used on 410 though to see if it holds up I’ve heard mixed opinions but never tried
Nitrogen flow through the pipes. It's inert. It's a very small amount. You need a gauge and a flow meter. Acetylene and air or oxygen. I don't think map gas (yellow) is enough. I use acetylene and oxygen when brazing. But air works too. Oxygen is dual purpose for me. Cutting torch. Unrelated to this video. Good luck.
Very nice video, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I just have one question to ask … when you braze the copper line close to the A-coil, would you run the nitrogen as well outside. Thank you
Yes, I’ll be posting a full air conditioning replacement video in the next week or so, it will show that process on the inside coil and everything so make sure and subscribe so you’ll see it when it comes out. It shows every aspect of the replacement with vocal instructions :) cheers
This may be a super stupid question but if you remove the Schrader valves on the service ports before brazing, does that release the refrigerant? Or does that main valve keep everything in? Think I've seen the main valve called a king valve somewhere? Thanks for the videos!!
No the schrader valve connects your hose to the lines and evaporator coil UNTIL you open the king valves. THEN if you try and take the vote out, all your refrigerant will come with it. But right out of the box, you can remove the schrader cores to do your brazing if you want. I don’t think it’s needed if you are quick about it.
I am asking on the nitrogen flow. I have always used it through my manifold gauges. Why with the extra attachment? I have always ran roughly 5-10 psi. What does this change from just using the gauges?
Modern systems have such small orifices in their valves where you absolutely have to nitrogen flow while you braise, especially if you have a TXV. Not even a piston will get clogged if you have enough build up on your line set because as soon as that refrigerant starts boiling off it's basically scrubbing the inside of those tubes and it can clog your metering device. You gotta consider the long term effects of all these tips, unless you're just trying to make plenty of future calls for the industry, especially when your viewers are gonna believe you are telling them the whole story.
Yes because the micron gauge was isolated after we closed the knobs. So as soon as I shut off the pump, air went up through that yellow hose. But in closing the knobs we isolated the lines from the yellow hose. Hopefully that makes sense. I have since changed the way I pull a vacuum. check out some of my more recent videos and you will see how much better and quicker it is! Cheers
Let it cool, don’t put water right after you braze it can brake and leak always remove the valves heat the pipe first then the joint don’t melt the sil-fos with the flame Too much heat on the 3/8 copper line
Nitrogen is more for 410a because the Freon washes the black soot off the inside of the line r22 r12 is a lot more forgiving the soot stayed put on those systems that’s why the old timers got away with it with 410a you can’t get away with that all the time.
Oof lots of mistakes made here. For starters, you ran the lines on the wrong side of eachother. The liquid line should have been ran on the opposite side so it lined up with the service port. The lines should never cross like that. You didnt sleeve the line set going through a brick wall and for some odd reason you did not put the insulation back on the suction line. Over time the friction between the bare copper on the liquid line rubbing against the brick will likely cause a leak. You also did not remove the schrader cores and melted them into the service valves. They will definitely leak over time. Wow you also started spraying water on the braze before it even cooled. You have to wait until the braze changes colors and hardens before you try to cool it down with water or a wet rag. You seem to be missing a lot of detail in your work that will lead to problems down the line. Don't take it the wrong way but you have some things to learn
Hey I super appreciate this. This video was from a while ago. Take a look at some of my more recent work and let me know what you think! Clearly you are a seasoned hvac tech and I truly appreciate your words of wisdom. That’s what this platform is for, to share knowledge and get better. Thank you for taking the time to make this comment. Cheers
@@diyhvacguy I just watched a recent video and you are still leaving the schraders in the service ports when you braze. They have to be removed becuase they cant handle the heat from the braze
@dr00andrew DIYer here. I cringed seeing the solder joint doused immediately and wondered why everyone here was saying "GJ!". I'll likely never have to do this since most DIY kits use flared ends but if I did I should do as you say; can I use yellow can propane and any solder+flux? Did the video provide the right solder+flux info? Thanks.
Ok I was always taught to open suction line first because by opening liquid line first oil can be released and possibly create an issue in the line at the txv/ meter or elsewhere. But I understand there is a lot of debate out there online about it . Good stuff thank u
@@diyhvacguy because the copper will crack. Wait about 30 seconds before you cool it off. Also, the nitrogen has nothing to do with the outside of the copper. The reason for nitrogen is to prevent oxidation on the inside of the copper. I would also remove those shader cores before brazing. If they get melted inside of those service ports you are f****ed.
@@DonTgurdy1488 I do have the appoin core remover tools but even for a diyer they wouldn’t need those tools. Just remove them and pop them back in when it’s cooled off. I never thought about them melting inside. Thanks for the tip man!
@@diyhvacguy no problem man. Removing the shrader valves also allows the nitrogen to flow. The purpose for the nitrogen for brazing is to flow and push the oxygen inside of the copper out. You don't use it to build pressure.
20/10 is unnecessary. 14/7 is perfectly fine. Most guys pull the cores. A rosebud is overkill for a standard lineset. Quenching is unnecessary and a bad idea if you're using Stay Bright. MAPP burns at 700 degrees; Oxy Acetylene 6000 degrees. It's unnecessary. Stay Bright is better in all respects.
Yea I’m gonna start using stay brite for sure! Gonna test it out on some copper joints in the garage this winter and pressure test them with nitrogen. Should make for a fun video :) thanks for the comment. I’m always leaving, so I appreciate your tips.
Yes! They make Staybrite8 soft solder that is specifically made for hvac application. Much lower soldering temp so no nitrogen flow is needed, and much less of a threat of overheating the rubber seals and such. I’ll be doing a video specifically about this very soon! Stay tuned
Yes, you don’t really need to remove them if your valves are wrapped tight. I have the Schrader valve removal tool but honestly, I prefer just leaving them in.
Why don’t you start your own channel and I’ll nit pick all your videos? :) I have core removers but I prefer to leave them in. Never have had a damaged one. Second why is my brazing tip wrong? I love the rose bud and a hundred other hvac guys will say the same 👍🏽
@@diyhvacguy Rose bud is for bigger copper 1 inch and above. You are the only one I have see use that on small copper here on youtube period. And you remove the cores so you don't damage the rubber o-rings on them, that will cause them to leak. I would highly suggest you use stay brite 8 and stay clean with mapp gas for you brazing. You won't need nitrogen. It's stronger easier and faster. It just can't be used at the compressor.
@@wd8557 you obviously don't know what you are talking about. As long as the braze is pulled in, it doesn't matter what size tip you use. It's just preference. The reason for the nitrogen is to prevent oxidation on the inside of the copper. You can use map gas all you want, but if you don't use nitrogen ( a noble/inert) gas, then you will have oxidation on the inside of the copper and that will cause you problems and possibly give you a liquid line restriction.
I got an idea! Can you come out to my house and replace my unit for free..... and I'll hold the camera for you! free of charge of course. I'll even make comments like, great job, excellent, magnificent. Just think of the business it'll bring you.
@@bilboman1 I know haha I’d a given you a discount if you were in salt lake though. Well I’m cranking the videos out every week so by then you’ll have plenty of free knowledge :)
He made 3 major mistakes that would lead to early failure. Love UA-cam though, these were called out in the comments and now everyone is better off for it. Someone on the internet said they never ask for help online, instead they ask for help then sign in with another account and post the wrong answer. That's what gets everyone riled up enough to give answers.
I did find it very helpful. Im changing out a rusted evap coil in my attic. I already did a pump down on my outside Rheem unit. I will have to look around for a N bottle. I think i have everything else. I am a retired petroleum engineer, bought some rental property a few years ago and have taught myself to do about everything event the HVAC maintenance. Thanks everyone!
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
I've never dealt with A/C units but with your help, I think I can do it. Have you ever thought about teaching at a vocational school? You would not have a problem. Thanks
You're amazing thank you so much for helping people I've been searching and I think I can get a lot of answers from your videos cuz I just can't afford to have someone else do the work but I really need it done bad thanks again
Hey man thank you so much, you are amazing explaining every detail.
You just save my day.
THANK YOU
GOD BLESS YOUR HANDS
I was taught that immediately cooling the copper is bad practice, i cant remember the reason, but i believe to let the joint anneal. You're supposed to allow 10 seconds to a minute before cooling. Basically once the color changes, not letting it anneal allows the metal to be stressed and any vibrations could weaken the joint
Very good details steps , I learn a lots from your videos and tip on get the tools used on videos
Thank you keep up the good work
Misconception. Your micron is not something that can act as a leak detector. It is your primary leak detector. If you had 300 marbles, and I took 5 you'd never notice. (a 300# pressure test) If you have a leak it might not show up on a 300# gage in 30 minutes; but it will over 5 weeks. Thats a call back. If you had 4 marbles and I took 1 you'd notice immediately. A micron gage will reveal not only moisture, but small leaks. A 300# test is cutting with a butter knife, a micron gage a scalpel.
Great way of explaining that! Thanks so much for sharing. I’m going to be picking up the Fieldpiece digital gauges soon that have the built in micron gauge so I don’t have to have a separate instrument anymore. That will be nice. Since this video I’ve implemented the 10 minute micron test. If it doesn’t go over 500 in that 10 minutes we are golden.
thanks for that explanation from a diy guy
True although some leaks only present themselves under pressure I've had a few that held vacuum but exposed under pressure.
If you know everything, why don’t you open your own channel to explain everything like you think it is
Nowadays you must use nitrogen flow while brazing AC lines because of the different oil. POE oil peels the oxidation from the pipes and will clog the filters. The mineral oil used in the past doesn't peel the oxidation and this is why the systems ran for so long.
I suggest you test the penetration of the alloy by cutting open some (test) fittings. You will understand why what you did can be improved
I agree that nitrogen is a must. If you don't you will have problems. 410A POE oil acts like a solvent.
ABSOLUTELY. brazing with those oils will decimate the interior instantly and create so much carbon. It’s nasty looking. Even worse the longer heat is held, so doing steel to copper or copper to brass with 45% silv can look especially bad. In the factory, we always had to purge, then set to braze on every joint. We also had gas flux hooked up directly to put out while brazing, which made the joints so much cleaner. When I switched from manufacturing and went out into the field as a res tech, I was appalled at how so many techs not only don’t use nitrogen, but don’t even use an abrasive on the joint to clean it, no acetone, and they put their fingers all over the joint, even the guys that clean them, just putting skin oils on the pipe, which can create voids. Filler metal doesn’t respond well to oils. They also don’t debur or ream the pipe…so..very disappointing. I’ve seen them not use any heat sink, even while around inlets, etc., not wrapping components with moist rags, etc. there are so many poorly trained hacks now. It’s not entirely their fault; so many companies just don’t train well or enough.
@@portraitofman2063 You must be fresh out of tech school or something. Take a Percocet and relax you nerd dork. I have installed hundreds of units without flowing nitrogen over the span of twenty plus years. They are all running like a top. Skin oils creating voids🤣😂 I can't wait to tell the fellas that one🤣
I would remove the Schrader valves and also use atleast 15 percent silver for a stronger hold. They didn't use nitrogen with r22 because the oil in that refrigerant didn't cause oxidation like 410a does.
May I ask why remove the Schrader valves?
@@BountBhocula they could get damaged
but there isn't any refrigerant oil in a brand-new line set. It was still trapped in the condenser when he was brazing.
Oil has nothing to do with oxidation.
It happens on bare copper.
@@SteveMcFry
Not if you wrap a wet rag around them
Really liked the video. Would love to see you do another system but show brazing the evap coil next time and maybe a video wiring up the condenser unit and the disconnect. I do have a question though. just wondering why you don't put the micron gauge onto the wet line and hock the pump to the suction line and pull your vacuum that way?
I do it this way because once the vacuum is pulled, I open the valves to let the freon in, and the freon fills the hot and cold hoses. This way, my gauge valves are both closed and when I let the freon into the system, it will not let freon into the micron gauge which would really mess it up.
I’ll be doing two full installs in April, so I’ll definitely be filming the whole ac install process. So make sure and subscribe to the channel if you haven’t yet! Cheers
I suggest to get yourself a Milwaukee battery powered vacuum pump. They work great. No outlet needed.
Thank you for all your videos...
Thanks for telling people that. When I worked as a service tech in Florida I can't tell you how many service vans did not even have nitrogen in them.
Installed hundreds of residential a/c units over the course of twenty plus years without ever flowing nitrogen. They are all running like a top and never had a call back. The HVAC industry will make things out to be a bigger deal than it is to push an industry standard. If you go to a technology school for havc they will pound into your head that soft soldering isn't strong enough and the joints will leak. This is another industry standard that is pushed that is not true. Higher silver content soft solders are easily strong enough to outlast the entire life of the system.
You made it so simple! Thanks you!
Of course. Glad you found this helpful
16:00 - so you went down to under 500 microns and immediately released refrigerant without a standing decay test which is required by most of manufacturers. 10 min holding under 500 microns is a default step.
From a Goodman installation manual, example: "Connect the vacuum pump with 250 micron capability to
the service valves.
2. Evacuate the system to 250 microns or less using suction
and liquid service valves. Using both valves is necessary
as some compressors create a mechanical seal separating
the sides of the system.
3. Close pump valve and hold vacuum for 10 minutes. Typically
pressure will rise during this period". Not doing it voids the warranty pretty much.
Standing pressure test or at least leak testing with nitrogen is skipped as well.
Also it looks like your micron gauge is installed closest to your vacuum pump, not on the lineset using a T/CRT as close to the system as possible. That CPS fitting allows that.
Did you remove the Schrader cores? Goodman requires that: "Remove Schrader valves from service valves before brazing tubes to the valves"
Videos like these are used during lessons at HVAC schools to show obvious mistakes. Sorry and thank you for your video regardless.
You are mistaken on this voiding the warranty. Explain to me how a manufacturer would verify that was done? Lol
This video was how to braze lineset with a nitrogen flow, some of the other things in the video was supplementary but I was trying to show how to braze primarily. I do appreciate your input and I have since found that doing a vacuum hold test is a good thing and will do that but will it not work good if it isn’t done, or void the warranty? Absolutely not.
@@wasatchmotoco "Goodman is not responsible for:
1. Damage or repairs required as a consequence of faulty installation or application". All HVAC manufacturers have similar clauses. Were you paid by a homeowner to do the installation, just curious? Can you confirm here for us and the homeowner who paid you that you followed all the installation steps, required by manufacturer? I wish all the installers film their installations so people can sue them in small claim court in 3-4 years down the road when the unit fails.
So you come to my videos and ask all these questions and then don’t answer mine? How does the manufacture determine any of this? They don’t! It’s all based on the contractors relationship with the dealer. If it’s registered, it’s covered. Now if someone said they wanted to warranty a unit that was smashed in on the side that obviously would be another story. But Schrader valves and not doing a micron test? Come on man.
@@diyhvacguy Manufacturer can absolutely see compressor damage due to moisture contamination or TXV valve being clogged with oxidation flakes due to "you don't really need to use nitrogen while brazing", or melted valve seals. May I ask you a question. ANything wrong you can see in 1 to 5 below:
1. Customer pays the installer for the equipment and the installation, assuming that installation is to be done correctly and the equipment is to last trouble free for 10-15 years. They sign a contract.
2. Installer performs installation not following manufacturer manuals and also ignoring basic industry standards.
3. Installer takes full payment claiming that everything was done properly
4. System has moisture contamination and refrigerant leak. System never runs at full expected efficiency, costs more money to run to the customer, but still provides an acceptable level of cooling so customer is happy
5. After 4-6 years down the road (at year 2 a pound of R410A had to be added, original installer was not available so it was $300 charge from another guy) system has an unexpected issue with the compressor due to POE oil contamination. It is covered by warranty, so a HVAC tech has no choice but to replace the compressor which is provided by a local friendly dealer for free under warranty. Customer only needs to pay $2000 for labor.
Don't you think that customer and the manufacturer are getting screwed by a dishonest installer?
@@deseremere I don’t know where you are pulling these hypotheticals from but you realize that every single unit made, is not perfect and “an unexpected issue with the compressor” can happen to a 100% by the book install.
On the warranty claims, the dealer does not check if the valve stems were removed when brazing 10 years ago. How could they? And they sure as heck don’t check the freon for contamination. How could they and why would they?
Also any reputable hvac contractor will stand behind his work. Just like the warranty has to do with the contractor/dealer relationship, the function of the system has to do with the contractor/owner relationship. Maybe you’ve seen guys get in this trade and then skip town or maybe you are one of them, but I’m not that guy. I stand behind my work.
You sound like a very knowledgeable person and I appreciate your input and will look to incorporate these steps in future videos but I will never agree that they will create issues with the system. Cheers
Great job!
I think cooling the braze with water immediatley after the torch could cause cracking in the joint, I render to wait a few more seconds for the temperature to drop in the metal. Of course you say youv'e done lots of them without a problem. Sort of like splashing water on a hot engine or lawnmower after running.
I haven’t had a single issue with this method. You are supposed to keep it hot so it can melt your o rings in the valves? 🤷🏻♂️
@@diyhvacguy Put a 90 degree bend in the Rod. It is easier to get behind the joint. I would use Harris 15 rod instead of the cheap 5%. The rod and joints are brittle with the cheap stuff, and the 15% flows much better.The nitrogen has nothing to do with the braze on the outside of the joint, it prevents oxidation inside the pipe. Do a joint without, and with nitrogen, then cut it open. If you purge properly, the nitrogen joint will be shiny like new money. The non purged joint will look like the outside of the joint and if you hold it down and tap it, scale will fall out. Some units have very small strainers before the metering device, and before the driers. If you have a lot of joints, especially when using hard ACR pipe instead of line sets, you will have a lot of scale. This scale also enters the compressor as there is no screen on the suction side. The copper scale is a conductor and can cause a burn out.
@@diyhvacguy Thats the reason for the wet rags. I could shoulder 2 5/8” lines with that much heat.
You are right. Joints can crack with too much cooling soon after the joint is brazed, especially when brazing different metals such as copper to steel
@@diyhvacguy that's what the rags are supposed to do, prevent damage to the valves, or you can remove the Schrader valve, let the pipe cool down a bit on its own
You’re smooth with it bro! Is there a reason you don’t take SVs out? I’m only curious. Seems like every place I work for has a different reason for doing anything. I’m so over their requests. Luckily I’m far enough into it to know the difference between a “that’s not going anywhere” and a call to someone when I don’t know what to do ya know?
Stay Bright 8 is a superior connection.
Great video thanks.
You are the man!
Keep up the good work sir!
Can you talk about the charging process in more detail? Is that what the Alan keys at the end do?
Yesir, my apologies if it wasn’t super clear. I will 100% just be dedicating a video to just charging a new system. I’d be happy to walk you through that, but I might not actually do one to document units this spring. Anyways if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask and I’ll be happy to create some content about it! Cheers
Do take out the Schrader valve on the line you’re not brazing? I ask since you left the hose on the liquid line and then just brazed it.
Ur oxygen need to adjust and lower the noise and also before u braze u shud wait until it’s flame green in color
Question I seen someone switch the nitrogen hose to the suction side when you're bracing the discharge and when he was braising the suction side he moved the nitrogen hose to the discharge line?
As you are brazing, are the king valves closed?
Correct. It’s not until after the lines are brazed, pressure tested for leaks, and the vacuum pulled, that the king valves are opened.
I am going to change out my evaporator coil and want flush my line sets before i braze new supply lines to coil. Can i flush the line sets and old evaporator coil before cutting line set from coil using the same method of nitrogen purge through service valves on condenser with schrader valves removed leaving one side open to outside air? Save me from doing each line separate. Question number two, can you flush the entire system including the condenser with flush kit?
Ok that nitrogen flow, doesn’t that make it harder to braze since it’s putting pressure in the line?
Great work😊
Do you have to remove the valve cores for the vacuum testing?
You got all these tools, but you don't have valve core removers? At the end i noticed that drain line 90 is facing down onto the concrete, if that's not changed then there will be problems with that drain line I guarantee
You're cheating with that tubing bender. Back when I started we hade use the spring. But I like the looks of that bender. Has it ever kinked your lines? Plus I thought all Compressors had hard starter kits? At least I'm pretty sure mine has it. It does have the Capacitor. Also Thank for the comment about not purging the line while silfosing, or brasing. I would like to ask you one more thing. What about putting a filter dryer in? I believe that is what it's called. Plus you said something I tell all my apprentices about the heat. The solder, and the silfos follows the heat. You do very good work. Thank you for the video.
Thanks for the kind words! The filter dryers on Goodman units are built into the unit 👍🏼
Nice carry handle for nitrogen. Where can I get one?
⚠️ Can you give us a link for that rosebud tip, there are a lot of with different sizes...
Thanks for sharing. I'm curious if you've ever come across jobs that used staybrite #8 solder instead of brazing, and if that's caused any problems. I see some people swearing that sb8 works great, and others say not to trust it.
Thanks for your comment. Funny that you mentioned that! I’m actually going to be testing it out next month on a system replacement. I’ve talked to several that swear by it, no need for nitrogen because it’s way lower heat and won’t turn the inside of the pipe black, and no need to lug around a huge tank set. Sounds like a game changer to me! Make sure and subscribe and click the bell so you can see when more info on that comes out soon. Cheers
@@diyhvacguy This is a GREAT video comparing brazing with Stay Brite 8: ua-cam.com/video/wJD712DB6S0/v-deo.html
On r22 solder was regularly used with 410 it’s been just braze due to the high pressure I’d like to see it used on 410 though to see if it holds up I’ve heard mixed opinions but never tried
@@BrandonL5150 Just me though, I wouldn't use stay bright on any 410 cause of high pressures
@@Goodfella0982 no lol I wouldn’t do that either
Great video. Where is the nitrogen (in the pipes or in the torch)? Can those bracing sticks be applied with a regular torch?
Nitrogen flow through the pipes. It's inert. It's a very small amount. You need a gauge and a flow meter.
Acetylene and air or oxygen. I don't think map gas (yellow) is enough.
I use acetylene and oxygen when brazing. But air works too. Oxygen is dual purpose for me. Cutting torch. Unrelated to this video.
Good luck.
May I ask why you didn’t use a pvc sleeve to protect the liquid line from concrete
probly cause that's not necessary, the liquid line will be fine the way it is
So you don't use flux while brazing? Good videos.
Nope, that’s only used with soldering
For copper to copper you can use alloy of "copper and phosphor" which don't require flux. (unless some other exceptions I'm not aware of)
Do you remove the Schrader valves when you braze?
Never
Very nice video, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I just have one question to ask … when you braze the copper line close to the A-coil, would you run the nitrogen as well outside.
Thank you
Yes, I’ll be posting a full air conditioning replacement video in the next week or so, it will show that process on the inside coil and everything so make sure and subscribe so you’ll see it when it comes out. It shows every aspect of the replacement with vocal instructions :) cheers
Especially when your running a txv.
This may be a super stupid question but if you remove the Schrader valves on the service ports before brazing, does that release the refrigerant? Or does that main valve keep everything in? Think I've seen the main valve called a king valve somewhere? Thanks for the videos!!
No the schrader valve connects your hose to the lines and evaporator coil UNTIL you open the king valves. THEN if you try and take the vote out, all your refrigerant will come with it. But right out of the box, you can remove the schrader cores to do your brazing if you want. I don’t think it’s needed if you are quick about it.
@@diyhvacguy Thanks so much for the clarification on that! Appreciate all the help!
I am asking on the nitrogen flow. I have always used it through my manifold gauges. Why with the extra attachment? I have always ran roughly 5-10 psi. What does this change from just using the gauges?
It just takes out a step basically. You don’t want too much flow or it could blow out your braze
Modern systems have such small orifices in their valves where you absolutely have to nitrogen flow while you braise, especially if you have a TXV. Not even a piston will get clogged if you have enough build up on your line set because as soon as that refrigerant starts boiling off it's basically scrubbing the inside of those tubes and it can clog your metering device. You gotta consider the long term effects of all these tips, unless you're just trying to make plenty of future calls for the industry, especially when your viewers are gonna believe you are telling them the whole story.
How is the freon added?
Since i didnt see a freon bottle im assuming these units ship pre-charged from the factory
Yesir!
Anyone else notice as soon as the pump cut off the microns went over 2000?
Yes because the micron gauge was isolated after we closed the knobs. So as soon as I shut off the pump, air went up through that yellow hose. But in closing the knobs we isolated the lines from the yellow hose. Hopefully that makes sense. I have since changed the way I pull a vacuum. check out some of my more recent videos and you will see how much better and quicker it is! Cheers
I thought micron gauge goes on suction line with a T
What kind of tubing bender did you use?
For this just a cheap eBay bender. It did the job just fine but since then I have gotten a Hilmor bender and I am really happy with it :)
Nice vid... but where was the charging part?
this video is how to braze, not how to charge a system. You can check out some of my other full installation videos to see that part 👍🏽 cheers
Let it cool, don’t put water right after you braze it can brake and leak
always remove the valves
heat the pipe first then the joint
don’t melt the sil-fos with the flame
Too much heat on the 3/8 copper line
What size Rose Bud tip do you prefer?
As small as possible for hard to reach areas.
where can i find regulator preset flow
Nitrogen is more for 410a because the Freon washes the black soot off the inside of the line r22 r12 is a lot more forgiving the soot stayed put on those systems that’s why the old timers got away with it with 410a you can’t get away with that all the time.
Considering the minimal sizes and ESPECIALLY only a few joints to braze, you can use MAPP gas. It gives cherry red hot results.
I only use map gas for Staybrite 8 anymore. You’d have to use a lot of map gas to get a braze rod to melt
Only if you want to waste your bottle of mapp
Why didn't you install a filter dryer?
Goodman’s have the filter drier built in 👍🏼
Oof lots of mistakes made here. For starters, you ran the lines on the wrong side of eachother. The liquid line should have been ran on the opposite side so it lined up with the service port. The lines should never cross like that. You didnt sleeve the line set going through a brick wall and for some odd reason you did not put the insulation back on the suction line. Over time the friction between the bare copper on the liquid line rubbing against the brick will likely cause a leak. You also did not remove the schrader cores and melted them into the service valves. They will definitely leak over time. Wow you also started spraying water on the braze before it even cooled. You have to wait until the braze changes colors and hardens before you try to cool it down with water or a wet rag.
You seem to be missing a lot of detail in your work that will lead to problems down the line. Don't take it the wrong way but you have some things to learn
Hey I super appreciate this. This video was from a while ago. Take a look at some of my more recent work and let me know what you think! Clearly you are a seasoned hvac tech and I truly appreciate your words of wisdom. That’s what this platform is for, to share knowledge and get better. Thank you for taking the time to make this comment. Cheers
@@diyhvacguy I just watched a recent video and you are still leaving the schraders in the service ports when you braze.
They have to be removed becuase they cant handle the heat from the braze
@dr00andrew DIYer here. I cringed seeing the solder joint doused immediately and wondered why everyone here was saying "GJ!". I'll likely never have to do this since most DIY kits use flared ends but if I did I should do as you say; can I use yellow can propane and any solder+flux? Did the video provide the right solder+flux info? Thanks.
@@LuisLarreaJr We use propane with oxygen, but no flux needed in our case (coper phosphor solder sticks)
Notice you opened your liquid line first after you finished you vacuum then your suction. Why?
You can open either. Some say suction some say liquid. Just let them sit for 10 mins or so to equalize before running it 👍🏼
Ok I was always taught to open suction line first because by opening liquid line first oil can be released and possibly create an issue in the line at the txv/ meter or elsewhere. But I understand there is a lot of debate out there online about it . Good stuff thank u
should use a extra old hose to braze with not your gauges..
I’m getting the field piece digital gauges soon but that is a good point! Thanks for the input!
How would you flow nitro through the air handler if there isn’t a condenser connected?
Connect the condenser first or rig up something I suppose
Damn. You have to let it naturally cool for a few seconds before you cool with water lol
Did not know that. Thanks for sharing. Why is that?
@@diyhvacguy because the copper will crack. Wait about 30 seconds before you cool it off. Also, the nitrogen has nothing to do with the outside of the copper. The reason for nitrogen is to prevent oxidation on the inside of the copper. I would also remove those shader cores before brazing. If they get melted inside of those service ports you are f****ed.
@@DonTgurdy1488 I do have the appoin core remover tools but even for a diyer they wouldn’t need those tools. Just remove them and pop them back in when it’s cooled off. I never thought about them melting inside. Thanks for the tip man!
@@diyhvacguy no problem man. Removing the shrader valves also allows the nitrogen to flow. The purpose for the nitrogen for brazing is to flow and push the oxygen inside of the copper out. You don't use it to build pressure.
20/10 is unnecessary. 14/7 is perfectly fine.
Most guys pull the cores.
A rosebud is overkill for a standard lineset.
Quenching is unnecessary and a bad idea if you're using Stay Bright. MAPP burns at 700 degrees; Oxy Acetylene 6000 degrees. It's unnecessary. Stay Bright is better in all respects.
Yea I’m gonna start using stay brite for sure! Gonna test it out on some copper joints in the garage this winter and pressure test them with nitrogen. Should make for a fun video :) thanks for the comment. I’m always leaving, so I appreciate your tips.
🙏🏽👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Brazing technique is not the best, but cool video
don't they make a solder for that instead of brazing
Yes! They make Staybrite8 soft solder that is specifically made for hvac application. Much lower soldering temp so no nitrogen flow is needed, and much less of a threat of overheating the rubber seals and such.
I’ll be doing a video specifically about this very soon! Stay tuned
It appears you brazed those copper lines in without removing the schrader valves….
Yes, you don’t really need to remove them if your valves are wrapped tight. I have the Schrader valve removal tool but honestly, I prefer just leaving them in.
@@diyhvacguy LMAOOOOO
With Schrader valves on, how the nitrogen flows. Needs a way out
@@jesuscard.1675 I just leave one of my hoses cracked so the nitrogen has somewhere to escape. Never had any problems :)
@@diyhvacguy omg dude lol
You Donot Need Anymore
Nitrogen Tank
There Is A New 2 Methods
And Cheap Than Welding Tanks.
Anyone Can Weld A Compressor
With The New Method.
Amén.
First thing is you used the wrong brazing tip, second you always pull the schrader cores so they are not damaged.
Why don’t you start your own channel and I’ll nit pick all your videos? :) I have core removers but I prefer to leave them in. Never have had a damaged one. Second why is my brazing tip wrong? I love the rose bud and a hundred other hvac guys will say the same 👍🏽
@@diyhvacguy Rose bud is for bigger copper 1 inch and above. You are the only one I have see use that on small copper here on youtube period. And you remove the cores so you don't damage the rubber o-rings on them, that will cause them to leak. I would highly suggest you use stay brite 8 and stay clean with mapp gas for you brazing. You won't need nitrogen. It's stronger easier and faster. It just can't be used at the compressor.
@@wd8557 you obviously don't know what you are talking about. As long as the braze is pulled in, it doesn't matter what size tip you use. It's just preference. The reason for the nitrogen is to prevent oxidation on the inside of the copper. You can use map gas all you want, but if you don't use nitrogen ( a noble/inert) gas, then you will have oxidation on the inside of the copper and that will cause you problems and possibly give you a liquid line restriction.
@@DonTgurdy1488 Thanks for your input genus.
@@wd8557 what I stated was basic HVAC 101. You should educate yourself before you start messing around with someone's AC system.
home insurance would love to hear that the ac was installed by an unlicensed person lmao, and the city/county would freak out as well
I got an idea! Can you come out to my house and replace my unit for free..... and I'll hold the camera for you! free of charge of course. I'll even make comments like, great job, excellent, magnificent. Just think of the business it'll bring you.
Haha are you in Salt Lake City?
@@diyhvacguy Nah, Baltimore....I was just messing with you. I need to replace my unit before next summer, so your video will help me out...hehehehhe
@@bilboman1 I know haha I’d a given you a discount if you were in salt lake though. Well I’m cranking the videos out every week so by then you’ll have plenty of free knowledge :)
This guy is amazing most HVAC guys are POS rip offs
He made 3 major mistakes that would lead to early failure. Love UA-cam though, these were called out in the comments and now everyone is better off for it. Someone on the internet said they never ask for help online, instead they ask for help then sign in with another account and post the wrong answer. That's what gets everyone riled up enough to give answers.
@@LuisLarreaJr I actually would appreciate if he takes a proper tech course and then comments himself on his own video :)