Making and setting up pantorouter tenon templates on the wooden and metal pantorouter
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Showing the process of working out the dimensions for tenon templates on the wooden pantorouter, and using the new segmented tenon templates on the metal pantorouter.
woodgears.ca/pa...
Segmented templates:
pantorouter.co...
I bought plans for your pantorouter a couple years ago. I got the build half done. A couple Saturdays ago I got it out and started finishing it. I'm very excited!
It would be interesting to hear an estimated number of hours you ended up spending on the DIY version.
@@jeffj2495 it took myself more than 90 hours to make a pantorouter cabinet... but I only have 1 arm, and thus, missing certain tools (Table Saw, Bandsaw, etc.)
@@carterscustomrods That's impressive, no matter how many hours it took. A very complex woodworking tool!
Я тоже купил, нет времени пока даже посмотреть)
I got the metal pantorouter today!! set it up and made a cart all today! thank you, and I'm happy you got a piece of my router! well a piece of the cost...
I've been a fan for years, I ended up buying the plans for the pantorouter a while back but I didn't need them, I had already built a pantorouter based on your videos.
I just felt like you deserved it, so I bought the plans.
It's so nice to see you posting more and more these days.
I love how his videos haven’t changed all the much, but have improved in quality
I still enjoy your videos all these years later.
That breakdown at the end, makes total sense. I'm glad you get a commission for the metal pantarouter.
Love seeing Pantorouter content!
I'm at 5:30 and I can't help but think that this is the PERFECT use for a small, simple 3D printer. Instead of relying on a bunch of pre-made pieces that never quite add up to the right size, you could just make your own set of plastic templates at the sizes you actually want and need
3d printers are far too slow.
@@matthiaswandel Something like that could be printed in the amount of time you'd take to eat some lunch, though - people tend to mistakenly think of 3D printing as an active process rather than a passive one.
Thanks for the video. Your explanation of bits and bearings was much clearer to me then others.
The tapered template to provide a size fine-adjust is a very clever idea, I like it!
good to see the continual improvements on the metal panto router.
I suppose the overlap between the two options would be those who start the build and give up and buy the factory one.
Or Matthias? ;)
Present, sir.
haha something I would do.
I started it, built it (with no table saw, bandsaw, etc) and can't physically use it. Lol. I figured I could make it work with one arm, but after many MANNNY hours trying, I've officially had to give up.
I did the best with a mouth-gaurd that I attached to the sled arm mechanism... but it was inefficient.
It's a beauty as well... it hurts to finally give up on it. But my mind can only take so much. 🤷 lol
do a video using the metal pantarouter to build the wood one, then you'll get overlap :D
This man 3d printed a Prusa with his Alibaba 3d printer, guaranteed.
Absolutely, because everyone needs at least 3 Pantorouters - just like you need at least 5 bandsaws :) A small one, a big one, an even bigger one, one with more power and the one you still have to tweak so it will be better than all the other ones but your wife doesn't allow you to spend even more time in the worksh...I mean garage.
3D print the templates! With Open SCAD you could parameterise it all.
He can probably still make them faster, but with a .8mm nozzle and using .5mm layer height at least it would be tolerable... probably.
I plan to do that in Freecad. I don’t make them that often, and my brain hurts too much every time I make another size and try to remember how to do it!
it's way faster to just make the templates out of wood.
I was about to say that. With the built-in Customizer, he would just have to change the parameters to create one of a different size or shape. (Heart-shaped through mortises *would* be pretty cool, for example.)
I am pleased to hear that you now get a commission from the metal pantorouter sales. You deserve it.
As far as I know, that has always been the case? Or at least from very near the beginning.
@@JasperJanssen the website says that as he invented the machine he has always received a royalty
seeing you do all this is simultaneously really impressive, and something that makes me extremely glad i cut my tenons on the tablesaw with a dado stack. for production work with lots of repeated tenons, or more complicated shapes, or double tenons, i can really see the value of this.
Always enjoy your videos. As a weekend warrior, I don't think I'm ready for this yet.
Scrimper here, as well - bought the plans years ago. Brilliant design, either way, Matthias. Very handy tool.
I can't wait to have my own garage/workshop someday so I can finally build myself a pantorouter.
I’m like half way through my wooden pantorouter build and I keep looking at the metal one like I should buy this damn thing 😁
This would maximize Matthias’ profits
There's very little overlap. You're at the center of the Venn diagram
I'm not that adapt to the skill set you have. but enjoy all your videos and especially the ones with your pantorouter. been enjoying your latest "comeback" videos. glad you are and have mended well. and glad to see you making some "Sheckles" for your efforts. your deserve it for all your efforts. you bring much satifaction and joy to us all. God speed.
I don't know why I get a kick out of your "jokes", but I do. I couldn't help but smile also when you explained that the 2 machines don't compete with each other
If you were to use a 1" follower bearing when cutting with your 1/2" bit you wouldn't need to think too hard when making a template, right? Just twice the size of what you want to make.
I'm not sure you can get a 1" follower bearing, to work on those shafts, just thinking.
That's right.
I have no need for a pantorouter, but its always cool when he makes a video on one
This machine has always impressed me.
It's hard to find bearings in imperial for followers, but I discovered that you can use a pack of router bit bearings that all have a 3/16" ID and a wide variety of OD ranging from 3/8" to over 1". I made the follower clamp on my wooden pantorouter fit a 3/16" shaft and it works out perfectly. You can buy a pack of these router bit bearings on amazon for about $15.
Another tip for making wooden templates: When I need to make a new template of a certain thickness that I do not have, I make a really long length of template "stock" that I can cut to length for different widths in the future.
9 minutes exactly... you devious Matthias
9:01
I feel like I'm back in time at my high school math class !
Great video Matthias! Thanks for sharing with us!👍😎JP
Thank you again for a nice video.
Greetings from France
very helpful and explanatory i still don't get why anyone would even consider downvoting a video like this...
Thank you Mattias for helping people use their minds. Sorry that doesn't pay the bills though.
Que bom que existe pessoas como você parabéns pelo ótimo trabalho e esclarecimento sobre este assunto é de pessoas como você que os seres humanos precisa para melhorar. 🤗👋
Pretty interesting! Thanks a lot for the lesson, dude! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Fantastic idea and cool content bro
I think I need to rebuild my Pantorouter XL at some point. I am just not quite getting the results I am expecting. I believe there is just a tiny bit too much flex in the whole machine. I already reinforced the handle with an aluminum extrusion and that helped. The machine is build from high quality 18mm birch plywood and Mahagony hardwood pieces. - I'm not entirely sure why it has as much flex as it does. (Its really not a ton, but I havent gotten a eprfec "plop" fit yet, and that really frustrates me)
But its was fun building it, and if I can improve myself - thats even better! :)
Yes, flex is more of a problem with the XL. On the regular model, the router body helps to protect against twist, but on the XL, where bracing would be best, I had to leave room for the router handles.
I need to build a panto router to make surfboard fins, just trying to figure out the best way to accurately foil them from 2d templates.
Just picked up a used Pantorouter and it just after a few cuts I'm pretty sure my use of screws and bolts will drop dramatically over the next years.
About 750 incl shipping (domestic), including a Mafell router unit and various templates
hi my name is noah , i hear it's going to start raining soon and i have this boat to build . can you up size that machine but keep it portable
Did the chart come with the segmented guide set? I didn’t get one with mine.
Curious, have you considered 3d printing the guides? Probably takes longer, but you could be productive while it's printing.
Even if I could be productive while it's printing, I'd have my wooden ones done before I'm even ready to start the 3d printer.
Thats a great idea! Setup the Cad model once and simply adjust the few variables accordingly.
Should also be fast to print as it doesn't need any significant strength.
They’re such simple pieces. I’d easily believe Matthias makes easily one or several before his computer boots up, the model is modified, STL is exported and sliced and the printer setup. Plus the hour? of wait.
@@apinakapinastorba unless his computer takes minutes to boot, changing the model and slicing should not take more than 3 minutes. And let's be fair, if you go that far into the details it also takes time to find the right piece of scrap wood. Changing the table saw back to 90° probably takes longer than changing the model.
This is just a case of, there is the Wandel way and there is the wrong way.
@@nils1953 You can do your own templates any way you want :)
Great Design 👍👍👍
11sec after posting... I don’t think I’ve ever shown up this early to anything
😂
thanks. very informative.
Haha, I laughed at the end. I’m in the overlap. I’ll build from your plans but I own a saw stop for the obvious safety.
2:30 The sizing of that slot lengthwise is kinda critical I discovered, just winging it resulted in a template that didn't work because the mortise slot is not long enough.
I was making a 19mm tenon that was 119mm wide, using a 38mm follower (2x the size of my 19mm router bit), that required a 238mm by 38mm template. To figure out the length of the mortise slot in the middle... that's not explicitly stated anywhere, I went looking online and realized there's no instructions on how to calculate the length of the slot.
But I figure you need to inverse the formula, instead of adding the router bit size you should subtract it. So length of 2* (mortise - router bit diameter) and add instead of subtracting the diameter of follower (6mm rod) = 206 mm long slot. That means I should get two 16mm pieces to close up each side of the slot in the template. I used 19mm which resulted in a slot just a bit too short for the tenon. So I feel I am on the right path here, I was only a few mm off and this seems to produce a mortise a few mm longer.
I haven't yet tried this out and I have no math background. So I might be completely wrong, but a mathematical method to calculate the mortise size would be nice, hopefully I got this right, will test it out later.
Question, Have a older metal model. Where can you buy upgrades for this pantorouter?? Like protractor makes angles and compound angles..
pantorouter.com
COOL!
Thanks for sharing that
I honestly cannot believe anyone would by the metal one! Insane price!
Thanks Matthias, I love my pantorouter! It would be so nice if you can think of a procedure to make templates for arbitrary shaped tenon and mortise (respecting the limitations imposed by the bit size), we could use it to make decorative inserts....maybe too hard?
I played around with that using my 3d pantograph some years back, made a video of it.
Yeap, but I think you're only dealing with the mortise half of the problem, templating the tenon that fits it correctly is the tricky part, don't you think?
i wonder if instead of making templates there would be 2 axis step motors
Would adding the easy height/vertical setting be something that could be added to the plans?
just a matter of adding a stop. but it also means the templates have to mount on one place only, which wooden ones don’t.
Very good
Could one buy the metal pantorouter templates and use them on a wooden one?
You would also need the aluminium t slot template holder. But I think that is a relatively standard part, so could be procured from elsewhere.
Looked these things up.
He is not joking about cost. The PantoRouter kits range from $1100.00 to $2100.00 slightly rounded up.
Ouch! That's on par with the domino joiners to.
Win the lottery and I will 2 of each.
Till then, glue and screws.
Id like to have a crack at making a cnc version of a pantorouter. I doubt it would be practical, but that wouldn't be the point of the build for me :D
That would be extremely, erm, not intelligent.
I am sure you would get a medal for dumbing down a cnc router. Not sure what kind of medal but a medal none the less.
CNC horizontal mill (router)
I've thought about building one as it would be more useful to me than a vertical.
@@prototype3a how so?
@@bluewanderer9903 Like I said: Not practical - im just interested in the build challenge.
@@bluewanderer9903 It's an analog cnc . Some folks prefer vinyl over digital ;-)
I think those plans deserve more than 18+3 $ more likely 25+5$ !!!
I don't see the point of buying an expensive metal pantorouter. At that pricepoint you can just as well go CNC. If you are looking for something that is setup and ready to work, then a CNC-machine is what you're asking for.
But if you enjoy working with your hands, if you're into that craftmenship, then you will probably also enjoy building a machine yourself.
If you are looking for something that is setup and ready to work, CNC is definitely NOT what you are looking for.
@@matthiaswandel Well, that depends on the build-quality and the user interface.
The pantorouter does only 2d contours, it's not hard to program those, you don't need any sort of sprutcam or fusion360. And it's not that hard to develop your own basic 2d CAM program for your tablet or pc.
The problem is really that some manufacturers of machines think about adding as many features as possible, without considering the ease of use; but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
@@matthiaswandel that and cnc router that costs 1k is waste of money and time.
3D print templates?
Wouldn't it make sense to just use a 3D printer to make the templates for both the metal and wooden pantorouter?
Love your videos. Where did you get that neat little reference sheet? I’m a newbie and that would be pretty handy to have, do you have/sell them somewhere?
comes with the templates
@@matthiaswandel Thank you. Mine didn’t come with that, I will have to check into that
Mattihas i was wandering what blade do you use on your bandsaw?
bandsaw blades
Couldn't you use your wooden templates on your metal one?
yes, I could.
@@matthiaswandel just seemed logical. Done something simpler, rather than spending £50 on specific parts I'd just make them.
Love your work and always. You should invest in a cheap 3d printer. These templates could very easily be printed.
and even more easily cut from wood.
@@matthiaswandel Respect. You should build a 3d printer with wood drive gears and tracks! That would be so cool. First print should also be the wood filament! Will you accept my challenge?
Are you still offering that big prints (I think that’s what it was called ) program?
yes
Festool users might be inclined towards Shaper Origin these days. Although the pantorouter looks great also!
The shaper origin is for cutting signs and such. Not useful for joinery.
@@matthiaswandel Shaper Origin is now being promoted with a designated workstation too. I would think this workstation makes an apt platform for joinery.
i suppose you could make custom templates for the metal pantorouter but you already have the wooden one which you use anyways
I like that you are still not into 3d printing.
3D printing is interesting, but sometimes it's just easier to do it the old way.
how can go your web site?
You could 3d print templates!
Or just use an inexpensive FDM 3D Printer and make your own templates! That's what I'd do anyway. I already have the 3D printer and this is an ideal project for it. If I had a Pantorouter.
As a machinist I can just buy your plans and make my own out of metal 😁😁😁 although that would take a bit of effort with all the CAD/CAM work. I’d like to build one at some point (out of wood first) but I just dont need one right now. Not so I have the space or a spare router!
Speaking of router, would you make a mini one that uses a trim router? Or maybe an ever smaller one that holds a dremel rotary tool?
You can just mount a trim router in the regular one. I have a video on that.
Awesome!
Those templates beg for custom 3d printed variants
Weather you build it or buy it, you cant go wrong.
_I prefer metric_
Sensible boy :)
Imagine thinking the candela is a good unit of measure. Lol.
Make a metal screw advance box jig!
Metal pantorouter how much the US dollar
💖
I'd go for building one because it's to the spec that you want rather than default lol
0:59 "I prefer metric"
As an American, a great many Americans do, too. Imperial sucks
Your grammar sucks. You've equated "an American" with "a great many Americans".
@@jej3451 that probably explains why they prefer metric too, lol
I’m too cheap to buy the metal one and too afraid of my own inaccuracy building the wood one. Just a matter of time.
Kreg has a jig for you!
@@matthiaswandel I don't like building with screws. Prefer hand tool woodworking.
hello Matt
i love all your wooden machine
why? do you know why?
cause you are able to make wrong things and correct them
You could get a 3d printer to make your own custom templates :)
too slow
why not 3D print the templates?
why not make them out of wood? Way faster and cheaper than printing.
@@matthiaswandel well.. not quite. If You have a 3D printer, You'd only need to do the math once and afterwards just enter required size of tenon for CAD to generate correct size template. Any size tenon would then be printed for a few cents worth of PLA and electricity while You do something else.
The argument that it's faster or cheaper to cut it from wood is false unless You sit and stare at the printer while it's printing or print the templates form some expensive plastic instead of regular PLA. Most people don't. It's also a much simpler process with far less steps and less room for error. Did You time how long it took to make that template?
here's what You did in order:
1) calculation;
2) pick an appropriate scrap of wood;
3) cut angled sides on tablesaw measuring that the dimension You need is in the middle (so need to calculate to adjust for distance to fence or "sneak up on it incremental cuts);
4) pick an appropriate size washer for radii (or draw a centerline and use a compass);
5) move to the bandsaw, set up the same blade angle, rough cut radii;
6) move to belt sander set up same angle, sand semicircles;
7) move back to table saw, (remember to reset the blade back square), cut slot moving from middle outward, flipping piece over for symmetric slot, measuring each pair of cuts until the correct width of slot reached;
8) pick a scrap bit to cut the slot end inserts;
9) cut to slot dimensions;
10) cut two bits for gluing in the slot ends;
11) wait for glue to dry;
12) back to belt sander, sand protruding ends back down to template radii;
13) mark centerline from the back, mark mounting hole positions;
14) to the drillpress, drill holes for mounting screws. Done!
It adds up. While Matthias most probably did the above faster than a regular 3D printer would take, for most people - 3D printing the template would probably make more sense time management wise and produce a more dimensionally accurate result. You can also print 10 different size templates in one go on a printbed at night while You sleep (modern 3D printers are near silent) or work on something else.
I do however love the pantorouter and Your videos about it.
A spreadsheet to calculate the template size would maybe help those who are not as good at math as you? 😉
if you can't add and double numbers, a spreadsheet may not be enough help either.
@@matthiaswandel You have a point there.
sip
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
OMG!
I need to throw down and get a pantorouter. It gas been too long.
People really disliking this? lol Why?
Everything is mixed. Metric, imperial systems.
That's Canada for you
I will 3D print Pattern designs in exchange for plans copies. Interested?
Theres is really barely an overlap between buyers of this machine and builders of that machine" :)
Call it MotoMaster. MattiasMaster.
I've finally given up after hundreds of hours of practice. I've come to the painful realization that I need 2 arms to effectively use it. (And I only have the one.)
Anyone need a custom pantorouter cabinet?
😥😢😭😰😰😰😭
no se que dijiste pero me late mas tu diseño
Just 3D print the templates
too slow