Speedmaster Pontiac heads Bad News on port alignment
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- Опубліковано 21 чер 2022
- Discussing a serious issue with port alignment using the recommended Felpro 1233 gaskets on the Speedmaster Pontiac heads.
With the entire port entry raised .128” there is a serious mismatch needing attention. - Авто та транспорт
Every Porter I have ever known including myself raises the intake port and has to modify the gasket accordingly, or use a trim to fit gasket. But more so you need to mock the heads up on the block you're going to use after it is decked and put the intake on it and then adjust the ports accordingly both intake and head. Heads are are not cast in pairs so the will not match the intake front to rear or top to bottom, thats just how it is regardless of the manufacturer, that is why people pay head porter's to get the most out of a combination.
Eric Weingarten does a lot of testing on these offshore heads and honestly by time you get done correcting there mistakes it will cost more than a set from a known US company. Glad to see you making videos again Jeff.
I agree, I’ve seen some decent SBC overseas castings but this set is bad. I’ve emailed Eric W. Concerning these heads myself! Thanks, finally getting back on my feet after my health scare. JD
@@HeadFlowInc been dealing with health issues myself Jeff. We aren’t getting any younger brother. Take care of yourself and thanks for the videos.
As far as late 60's Pontiac cylinder heads- There is a Standard intake port- there is a RA I and RA III intake port- AND there is a RA 2 RA 4 intake port. ALL are different sizes in both height and width- but your port looks a bit more off than I would expect to see. We always split the water passage off and dowelled the heads/intake to get the best possible port alignment when building these motors. So there is work to be done no matter whos heads you get. Some one should make a Aluminum version of the early 70's D-Port #96 heads. They had big valves and mid-size chambers with all the bolt holes in the exhaust. Hard to find the cast version now but they made great Pump-Gas Pontiac heads for street performance builds- WAY better than 4X/6X. The round port RA and SD heads are not as friendly to make a pump gas motor out of and are not as good.
The bolt hole don't locate the intake. Setting on the gasket locates how far it drops. All you have to do is double up on the gaskets and all will be fine, or mill the heads, I hope they leave the heads alone,
Not going to work on these heads it’s way more than a double gasket situation.
So this master porter can mill iron or aluminum. But a paper gasket is impossible? 2+1= 9 ?
The gasket needed is not the one recommended by Speedmaster. I had to find the gasket to best match the head then match the intake as well. Thanks
Just curious, without removing material from that ledge, how could you fix it? I'm thinking tig weld a bead and then create a proper transition. But Since it's on the intake side, would a metal epoxy putty hold up? Just trying to think how a DIY person could improve those without a tig welder. I've tried to build up material using those aluminum brazing rods (Alumiweld type thing), but I'm thinking it would be difficult to heat the head enough to get the brazing stick to flow/adhere properly.
My answer is two fold, you could use epoxy to fill and recreate a smoother transition/radius; but the flow of the port will still be reduced.
The “Pinch Point” on many heads is the cross sectional area where the pushrod passes. As you can see the flow potential of the head is reduced .090” smaller than the incoming air from the intake.
Research what brand epoxy is recommended and available if you want to try smoothing the transition. Another option would be to at the very least remove the sharp edge will help some. JD
Epoxy: Z-Spar splash zone or Moroso A+B
www.belzona.com/en/products/1000/1111.aspx
@@HeadFlowInc Thank you for the reply and especially for the epoxy recommendations - I hadn't heard of them before. I don't have these set of heads, but I always learn something from your videos!
Just sleeve the pushrod tubes that run next to the intake ports. You will have room to "fix" this condition at that point I am pretty sure. Just dont grind past the tube......
What happened with these heads? I would have liked to see how the intake lined up with the heads bolted to the engine. With the gasket misalignment, who knows how close the intake ports will really be when bolted on the block.
Stay tuned 👍
What ended up happening with these heads? And a video comparing the edlebrock heads would be awesome
We were on hold waiting on Speedmaster to decide if they were going to exchange the heads. These heads clearly have raised intake ports but Speedmaster says they do not sell a raised runner Pontiac head. I think the manufacturer was originally trying to say we had modified the head? Once we proved it’s an “ as cast” head they started saying it must be someone else’s heads. In the end Speedmaster stopped communicating with us so I’m just going to correct the issue by porting to a different gasket; which means reworking the intake manifold.
In all honesty I don’t recommend buying the Speedmaster heads after looking at the port alignment to the bowl and absolutely horrible customer service. JD
Make a video sharing how they treated you. Sadly the growing trend is for people and companies to act like how they have with you guys. Instead of owning up to it loosing money on one head, but gain the respect of thousands by doing the right thing and improving their product
I think he got a poor casting, my Speedmaster heads lined up perfectly with the 1233 gasket. I wanted to raise the roof, so I purchased the taller port gaskets that are available from Butler and other Pontiac suppliers.
What people don’t understand is the port opening is Exactly the right size as the 1233 or RA4 gasket, Cut with a CNC program, but the ports simply do not line up with the gasket using the current bolt hole location.
Both cylinder heads are machined the same way supporting Speedmaster sent them out this way. I want someone to show me their Speedmaster heads with a properly located intake gasket. JD
Disappointing, but not surprising. I had hopes besides working a full time job and becoming a jigalo on the side that I would eventually have enough money to buy a set of these heads . That's a lot of money for a piss poor casting. Lol my chevy roots are whispering in my ear , just put a chevy in the lemans. I'm becoming more inclined now to listen. Great video !
Please keep your Pontiac a Pontiac! You’d be surprised how much fun a pump gas 455 is with 400+ HP and 500+ TQ to play with.
This is easily done even with a cast iron d-port head like a 6X -4 casting with a mild cam @.050” 230+
Putting a chevy engine in a Pontiac is sacrilege.
So with a port ceiling raised .128 thousands, or a little more that an 1/8 on an inch, doesn’t that completely change intake manifold height?? Now, to run these heads you have to run a spacer plate sandwiched by gaskets?? I have Reamed cast iron heads to use 7/16” pushrods on a Pontiac and had luck because there is a ton of meat, but a copper tube in there. Sounds like they need to go back to the drawing board.
The plan is to gasket match both the heads and intake to the new gasket opening. The intake is aligned by the bolt holes, now I will create a new port opening to match the taller gasket and make sure the intake runner dumps the same. JD
This is why Edelbrock is more expensive.
Ok, so where did you get the better fitting gasket from?
Update update! I happen to notice the gaskets have a different part number than the package; definitely not a 1233# gasket! What are the odds, maybe these are some bootleg gaskets I’m not sure. The owner of the heads is sending me a different set of 1233 gaskets, video to follow. Sorry for any confusion JD
Update: The gasket alignment issue must be the cylinder head; we’ve now received two sets of Felpro 1233’s, the gasket Speedmaster lists as the recommended gasket, stamped 1258-1. The openings do measure the advertised 2.20” x 1.180”.
The port dimensions in the head match the gasket but not in the factory location!!! After months trying to work with Speedmaster they chose to stop communication stating they do not sell a raised runner head. So either Speedmaster is lying or someone is selling knock off Speedmaster heads online? 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don’t know where the better fitting gasket came from, I only have one and the part number isn’t found online!
The gasket that fits the head has 2.300” x 1.180 openings.
Thermoseal RG-N120 by advantage. That’s the only information on the gasket
Found the needed gasket 2.300” x 1.175”
SCE Acu-seal 128105 intake gaskets.
For years people have been mismatched BBC rectangle port intakes on oval port heads with very good results. I'm sure your "minimal" mismatch is not as major as your making it.
The reduced cross section and sharp edges on the steps are creating a pinch point reducing port flow and volume. But to each their own; not everyone has to agree. JD
Why not just use HO intake gaskets? Just found your channel, cool stuff. I own a 1972 455HO and buy my HO 7f6 intake gaskets from Butler. Subbed. 👍👍🏁🏁
I’ll check the gasket opening dimensions! I have a gasket with exactly the opening I need but the part number doesn’t cross reference and I haven’t verified where to buy a set. Thanks for your feedback I appreciate it! JD
I need the pt# for the second raised port gasket. If you wouldn't mind sharing
SCE 128105 gaskets
@@HeadFlowInc thank you
What is the part# of the taller intake gasket please ?
The taller gasket opening measures 2.300” x 1.160”.
The info on the gasket may not cross, it says Thermoseal RG-N120
SCE 128105 is similar
MS20101 Mahle
@@HeadFlowInc Thank you !
So is that a blooper on Speedmaster's or Pontiac's engineering?
It’s a potential manufacturing issue on Speedmaster, if it was done on purpose. I don’t have another set to compare to, so we wait to see what Speedmaster decides to do. JD
@@HeadFlowInc I hope they replace them for your customer. I've had my share of getting jacked from purchasing things from the internet. Thanks for the video. Good luck and God bless.
Let me blow holes in this, I have zero connection to Speedmaster for the record. simply putting a gasket on the intake side means nothing. To me it means simply that the port is raised slightly to aid flow.
Bolt the heads to the engine then install the gaskets and manifold to determine where the gasket will need to be positioned and or trim the gasket, custom engine assembly 101
You have zero idea what your talking about. You can follow the community guidelines or be permanently muted your choice. Jeff D.
@@HeadFlowInc threats will not make you right!
😑
These people crying about a head that is less than half the cost of American head and the difference it’s so little hp different it probably all but nothing
Speedmaster “NASTIEST OF THE NASTY”
port gasket match is least of your problems.
I’m beginning to see what you mean! We’re still waiting on Speedmaster to decide if they’re going to swap out a new set of heads; they claim they don’t sell a raised runner head. Weird
Did you get any help from speedmaster
This is why you don't use cheap Chinese castings. Even if you rework one of these heads......still giving up 100 horsepower....over a properly done Dart, Brodix, AFR, head.
There’s very few aluminum Pontiac heads under $3000.00 a set. People just can’t afford the Name brands.
If they can't afford them....then they don't need them. I grew up when there wasn't any aftermarket heads and you had to deal with what was there. Other than weight and looks......these cheap heads do nothing for performance without major work....and dollar for dollar....not worth it.
Just trim the gasket and quit crying. You sound like them LG BT people, just man up and get it done.
No, actually we’re in contact with Speedmaster about swapping out the heads because Speedmaster says they don’t sell a raised runner head. We’re waiting on the Pontiac head division concerning the warranty swap.
I could make the heads work, which requires more than trimming the gasket, but instead an entirely different gasket than recommended.
Now you know there’s more to the situation. JD