Christian Community, Bitcoin, and Fatherhood w/ Jacob Imam
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2022
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As the son of a financial advisor and retirement specialist, this was an incredibly interesting and challenging conversation for me to hear. Really thankful that Jacob is a regular guest
Yes, really challenging and uncomfortable. Powerful food for thought (and then action).
That was a wonderful conversation. I live in Post Falls, Idaho right now, and it’s very much a Catholic community. It is almost easy to grow in faith because I’ve been able to be integrated into a devout community. The town has 30,000 people and the county has 170,000 people which is a lot to me. But moving here was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made
As someone who has worked in assisted living for 12 years, I wholeheartedly agree that we need to take care of our own parents. I will never place my own parents in any of the kinds of places I’ve worked if I can help it. You’d think people would rather have property and money to hand down to their children rather than spend 10k a month or more living in some of these places, but like you said, nobody wants to “burden” their children but either way you’re “burdening” someone. Most caregivers in these places are underpaid and overworked.
Matt, your show has become a staple for me. This conversation was the best! It is so human, honest and transparent. Thanks and peace.
An awesome catholic who has a proper understanding of Bitcoin is Eric Sammons, chief editor of Crisis Magazine. He could debate Jacob on it.
that would be awesome
Yeah his understanding of it wasn't deep or accurate.
Cool, I must find a community now that help each other become great saints.
God bless us all.
New Polity is such a powerhouse. Every interview with them is such a blessing.
Amen!
I'm not so sure about that. I really do appreciate that they are opposing the weird authoritarianism that some on the Catholic right are currently favoring and I like that they are generally concerned with how one should live the Catholic faith, but I'm skeptical of the broader intellectual orientation. The apparent fixation on rules (can Christians own a smart phone, should you pay your children an allowance) is, I think, largely incompatible with the Aristotelian and Thomistic emphasis on the role of prudence in moral decision making. And the more I study the history of philosophy the more convinced I am that the broader post-liberal interpretation of the history of ideas is just wrong. The story is a lot more complicated--and there is a lot more messy contingency--than people like Michael Hanby or Andrew Willard Jones really recognize.
@@smashandburn1 I don't think those are so much rules per se, as arguments for why specific decisions that might seem radically countercultural might actually be the prudent choice instead. The titles might be strongly worded but the conclusion is seldom a blanket rule.
I haven't dived deep into the history of ideas issue, but their picture does seem a little too tidy to be correct. Could you give some examples of things you think they get wrong?
@@JohannesCuthbertus Maybe you're right and I just misread the articles, but I don't understand why you would set the articles up the way they do if you're merely pointing out prudential considerations that people should be aware of.
As for the history of ideas, things get complicated, because I think they are partially correct about some things (maybe 40%?). However, there are several things that seem to me to be serious problems. The first is that i think the claim advanced by Radical Orthodoxy thinkers and promoted by a lots of post-liberals that modernity has it's roots in Scotus's theory of univocity is silly. Similar, the claim that Ockham's nominalism set us on the path to modernity is almost as ridiculous. I'm a thomist, but you just can't convince me that the entire fate of western civilization hinges on a dispute about whether names refer primarily to concepts or to individual things.
There's also a lot of good research showing that Early Modern philosophy arose out of a desire to SAVE Christianity from the attacks of Renaissance Aristotelianism that many felt Scholasticism was unable to respond to effectively (see Gaukroger's _The formation of a scientific culture_). What really seems to have caused the west to lose its faith was not the introduction of mathematical physics, but the twin blows of German biblical criticism and Darwinism. Now, I'm not saying that the development of modern philosophy didn't make it easier for these things to arise or contribute to people's loss of faith. Only that they're much more contingently related to the decline of religion than many would have you believe (especially if we remember that German critical scholarship was just bad scholarship on its own terms, as thinkers like Ratzinger and NT Weight have shown).
@@smashandburn1 Thanks for the thoughtful response! To your first point, it seems to me primarily rhetorical (or "clickbaity" if you want to call it that). The objective is to question deeply ingrained assumptions that we have absorbed from the surrounding culture, so of course the setup is aimed at demolishing the assumptions, with the qualifications, nuance and prudential considerations coming later on.
"It's Ockham's fault" is a meme, of course, but the fundamental idea doesn't seem completely wrong: the introduction of nominalism and voluntarism led, over centuries, to the denial of essences and the prioritisation of the will/desire over intellect/objective truth. These led to the rejection of natural law and the modern concept of sovereignity, with the attendant implications for authority and power, and here we are today. I actually first heard of this idea from Ed Feser on his blog, not really from the postliberal circles (though for me, New Polity fleshed out the political implications more fully).
Have you watched the recent PwA episode with Jacob and one of the Plato brothers? I think they discuss and present their approach to the history of ideas quite nicely there. From what I recall, one of the turning points they identified was Kant, who tried to separate religion from philosophy. Certainly Darwinism and German criticism contributed to the decline, but I think it was in motion before that already: look at the French Revolution, for example, or writers like Voltaire, which pre-date both of them. I feel the case could be made that the fideism of the Protestant Reformation was another watershed moment as well, which ties in nicely with their account too.
Hearing you two talk about Steubenville will always be interesting to me, because I live in a very similar place, but at the same time so, so very different, lol. It’s another town in Ohio with a pretty significant Catholic population. A lot of that is more of a cultural Catholicism, but I see the tide turning on that, at least a little bit, thanks to pockets of living saints and a pastor who cares about his parishioners. But we are much smaller. One stop light. Farmland abounds. Some places are walkable if you’re in town, but a lot of the people are in more rural areas.
I would love to see a round table discussion on the use of finances between Jacob and Trent in the future, Matt! Loved this discussion and appreciate the points Jacob raised.
I agree
I want to see that discussion as well
Well to be honest pint of aquinitas and new polity open mind my mind how actually live as catholic, please consider to make this happen as programmer I want to ask about my state of soul.
Please continue this conversation
I work in the investment industry, and many of the things discussed here are things I think about. I’m not sure I agree wholeheartedly with Jacob but I value his ideas as I continue to form my own thought. It does seem like a huge wall to climb, given our society puts so many barriers to actually living the way they discuss in this video. Thanks for having the conversation.
I am so bummed to missed the live! I really need to be in this conversation.
I am obese and you are totally correct Matt. For so many years I had no idea that having c-sections would trigger an autoimmune disease. I didn't know about that at all. For many years I had no idea I even had anything I thought I was just really tired from lack of sleep and in a lot of pain like everyone else complained they were. I was just diagnosed back in September. Being so tired for 14 years has caused me to over eat and not eat the greatest. I am now learning how I should have been eating and taking care of myself all these years
10 months later I hope you’re doing better, God bless you and keep you!
Please provide a clip from your points on being a young father! That was so good… lots of men and young families should hear that
Montana is a great place, and the people are even greater! 👌💯👏👏👏🙏 We love beer, whiskey, cigars and Catholics! Western Montana is the most beautiful, come for a vacation! 💞
shh! I have friends and family in Montana. It's tempting except it is way too far north and for some reason the whole state goes up in flames every summer. lol
I would love to see an episode with a guest explaining exactly what it’s like to live in Steubenville with the huge Catholic community.
Yes, please do.
You can ask me. You have to have a calling to that. It has many beautiful sides of faith but it is still community of sinners so it is no paradise like many imagine.
I so wish I was in America right now 😤😤😤 it seems so much better
Sincerely, a fellow Australian
Would be nice to have a conversation between Jacob and Robert Breedlove and/or Charles Hoskinson. IMHO they are both very humble representatives of Crypto but with a deep and even philosophical/ethical undertanding of the space.
Jacob Imam is the MAN.
I'm here for the tyranny of the automobile discourse too. Love it and would love to see an episode taking that conversation further.
Loved this!
This is great. Jacob reminded me of a pastor out in Idaho, Douglas Wilson (would be neat to have him on your show, Matt!) - his desire is "All of Christ for all of life".
Jacob was perfectly reasonable at diagnosing the problems of the economic machine. However the prescription as to what to do about it was entirely lacking. I want someone on a catholic channel to address the challenges of simply living (and living simply) in the world today: costs of educating kids, taking even very modest vacations, the costs of maintaining an aging house, wanting to help your extended family. The elephant in the room is money is worth less and less by the year.
Jesus and St Paul have already said everything that needs to be said on money in the NT. Whether middle class comfortable Catholics want to hear it is another matter..
Question - how often do you take the above mentioned challenges, costs & concerns to our Lord in prayer?? The answer is - we are not able in and of ourselves to take care of ourselves nor our families. Only by depending on God's provision can we navigate these rough seas. [Lord, Lord can you not see we are drowning? As Jesus is awakened and by a word calms the sea]. It is hard to do in this culture of 'independence' & 'take care of yourself'. I learned this by realizing when I was between jobs, only doing occasional temporary or part-time work, that all my bills were paid, all my needs met. Let go & let God is an easy answer, but takes the hard work of going daily to Him in prayer. Jesus tells us His yoke is easy and His burden light - which is true if we let Him do the heavy lifting, rather than tugging against the harness trying to do it all. St Teresa of Avila's Book of her Life details the struggles she went thru to found reformed Carmelite monasteries during the time that the Protestant Reformation was tearing the church apart. She would get a call to start a home for her nuns in a particular town, would do everything she could think of, with no money and a letter from her bishop. When she exhausted her efforts, contacts and resources, she would give it to God, 'If You want it, You have to provide it'. One of my heroes.
I love this. Jacob gave brilliant words to what my gut was telling me but I couldn’t quite verbalize. The whole bitcoin thing, ugh...if it has to be complicated by definition, it can’t be the right direction.
I'm glad Neal (Neil? Sorry if I spell it wrong) has a good microphone in this one :)
Is anyone else not getting notifications about streams? Beginning of the end for your channel, Matt? 😅
I think we need clarity on economic realities (how it actually works) abs then apply ethics to that. Can you get Ed Feser or Thomas E Woods on to discuss economic issues with Jacob?
We need Jacob Imam x Trent Horn debate
Wow… very enlightening thoughts on how Catholics should approach the economic realm.
If you get a chance read a book called With The Old Breed! Written by Eugene Sledge. He fought with the first Marine Corps Division in Peleliu and Okinawa. It was reading that book that I realized how much was really sacrificed! Then you’ll know why people put their hand on their heart. And of course the Australians fought the Japanese in hell as well! That book changed how I viewed patriotism and the cost of freedom!
Interesting listening to this even just a year later...
😆😆 Timothy Gordan is about to punch you in the face
That made me laugh. Loving it
I like the new intro
You talking about great wolf lodge reminded me of when I was a lifeguard at a smaller amusement park that we joked was where the people of Walmart vacationed. One day we decided to count the amount of men with chest piercings and we made it to 20 that day.
If Jacob dies tomorrow, who will provide for his wife and Children to the level he would have liked?
If everyone is poor who will provide for the poor?
His friends and family. People in the comments keep bringing up exceptions and scenarios as gotchas. If Jacob had no friends or family he could count on to help his widowed family, I'm sure he'd be fine purchasing a term life policy. The point he is making is where love lacks, money fills the gap. It is the orientation of your heart. We need to tend toward a society where a widow being destitute and without support is unthinkable.
I subscribed to support Matt's work after listening to this. I have been a previous subscriber but drifted away. But in the last few podcasts I have listened to I have really enjoyed the discussion and the insights into living a Christian life and I wanted to support this and the unique way you evangelise.
One point or question (and it is a genuine question rather than a comment or critique) was around Matt's call to surround his family with Christian influences and the great things that moving to Steubenville has allowed. At one level, I really admire that and think it is a fantastic decision but, on another, I wonder if we risk "retreating" into a specialist Catholic communities. In a way, that might be allowing the secularist to achieve what it is they desire. Is it better to protect our strength of belief and encourage our children to live Christian discipline by living in a Christian community? By doing that are we also risking cutting ourselves off from those who God wants us to reconcile with. Now, Matt, personally you are reaching out to those other communities and groups all the time in your work and that is part of what your podcast is.
You raise a good and difficult point. How do we answer Jesus' call for evangelization while also protecting our kids from the demonic world we live in.
Matt I really like what you do but I feel like you need to have a finance discussion again with Jacob and another guest. Jacob had to ask you several times to push back on his opinions because you weren't bringing up objections. I was hoping this discussion would have gone deeper!
Hi Neil!!!
1:26:00
Objection!
Banks take up WAY more energy than crypto mining. Especially if you count how many thousands of people drive to work for a company like Bank of America who have giant skyscrapers.
This point is mute.
But his summary of why the Federal Reserve is an injustice was spot on.
On his point about El Salvador:
The whole idea is that the currency is related to the production process, Bitcoins don’t have to be mined in Latin America to give Latinos sound money. El Salvador was using the US dollar before, they couldn’t create that either…and in fact when the Fed prints money to boost the Fortune 500 the people who suffer proportionally the most are places with the lowest average income like our dear pupusa loving friends in El Salvador.
Bitcoin 2 - Imam 0
Furthermore, at 1:36:00 I would say that crypto IS NOT its own end, it has the utility of storing value and enabling fair transactions.
What /real/ use is gold by his logic. You can’t eat it, or be clothed by it, or take it as medicine, it has no end except vanity for jewelry or fine plate ware (until we hit the tech age where I guess we use it for computers idk.)
I’m still waiting to hear really intense conversation on crypto in the Catholic space. Vin Armani and Jon Pageau have a great interview in the Orthodox side of youtube for those interested.
great point - I am a bit bummed by how uneducated (not meant as an insult) Catholics are on this topic generally. It is like Catholics are not leading the culture but even lagging behind... I hope that more content on this topic comes out from a Catholic perspective.
His key objection is, that it is greed, so it has no intrinsic value. Its just to buy and flip, not do much to buy everyday services..!
@@kingofcelts it is used in financial services like remittances, in decentralized storage of data, in decentralized cg-rendering, just to name a few examples.
I say it one more thime: Jacob and Matt ones a week!
You make an offhand remark around 1:31 that Trent Horn might disagree with a lot of what Jacob is saying here. I would love to see you host a discussion with both Jacob and Trent on Catholic Economics.
No such thing as "Catholic Economics" though. Jesus didn't give us any revelation on production, trade, prices, etc. Economics is a human science, the principles and workings of which are discoverable (and arguable) via the same tool set humans use in other social sciences.
@@MillionthUsername Nonsense. Christ is King, and His lordship extends to the human sciences. While there may not be one set economic system which uphold Catholic teaching, there are guidelines or principles that can be said to make an economy more or less moral.
You guys are making me feel jealous we left Lawson Ave. LOL
I think relying on your children as a retirement plan is 100% a terrible idea. This assumes that your children are successful enough to take care of themselves, their own family, and you. For instance, say you are a woman that quit her job to stay home with her children and her husband works. Say you have other brothers and sisters, but they are not in a position to take care of your parents in their old age. So now your husband is strapped with taking care of his in-laws, if his parents had also just relied on him to take care of them, this is 4 elderly people who managed to live 70+ years without planning ahead to take care of themselves and dump it all on one man's shoulders. That to me is complete and utter stupidity.
I think the argument of what if they are called into religious life is good too. Having to support you would prevent them from fulfilling their lives purpose.
Yeah I gasped when he said that. There is NO WAY we could begin to take care of our parents!! My husband works a lot and I am currently don't have any work but I do have a job. We have always just barely been able to take care of our own household of us and our three kids, let alone our parents as well! We would all be homeless!!!
At 1:35:00, an interesting discussion of the morality of crypto. But doesn't the Catholic Church also invest its money in banks, and historically lent its money at interest? At least according to Trent Horn in his Nov 9, 2019 podcast "Can Doctrine Ever Change", minute 21)
Catholic communities that are faith oriented and not just culturally Catholic are very hard to find.
I embrace being Catholic and the catechism and all church teaching. Just wish that I could find a viable Catholic community.
Look into groups like Opus Dei and Regnum Cristi. Do your research into Regnum Cristi though as they are connected with the Legionaries of Christ.
@13:50 - true, that body building is a exercise in vanity; that being said, if you are training your body for performance/athletics/to be a more capable fighter (to defend the family), I do think that becomes a more noble endeavor. These lifts will of course look different (less bicep curls and more power cleans/explosive movements, etc.).
What about the flag of the Habsburg empire? Or like coats of arms in the holy roman empire in churches? What if it is meant to pray for at the mass? If the country is at least expressly catholic or the family is catholic, it might not be all that bad to put the flag or the coat of arms. What do you think #NewPolity?
I totally agree with Jacob that money must be directly connected to work. That is the attitude Christians need to embody to be different from the world. You can do this by abstaining from any kind of numbers magic with money. Don't use the stock market, cryptocurrency, and the like.
There is a ton of confusion and misinformation re energy, Bitcoin, and the ethics of investment in Jacob's analysis. His explanation of the Cantillon effect and desire for sound money is right on and helpful, but I would love the opportunity to provide a different perspective in those regards.
Jacob articulates some of the mechanics of BTC but seems pretty ignorant when it comes to the energy FUD (what is the energy impact of the US dollar?) He also doesn't realize the impact of BTC as a life raft to those who have been drowing in developing nations from tyrannical governments and their money printers. As well as the remittance solutions. Matt should have some guest on with a deeper understanding of this. Jack Mallers, Pomp, Nic Carter, etc. Jacob's concerns have been debunked countless times, akin to anti-catholic arguments which have been debunked for centuries.
Jordan Peterson actually dove into the topic of BTC and realized that it ironically incentivizes energy efficiency and sustainability and its development.
It is sad that the topic on the alternative, proof of stake, was basically evaded, but at least Neal/Neil seems to have some idea on it - and checking the comment section it would be nice if Matt would dig deeper into this.
Totally agree, I think they really should have a full episode dedicated to cryptocurrency. It is a big part of our future and should be debated more in catholic circles
Steubenville sounds great! Any jobs there?
What about Steubenville for widowed retirement plus active person?
Wait… something feels wrong
What happened with the intro song!?
Alternative to a 401K? What about Roth IRA? What about a college savings account for children's or grandchildren's education? I definitely see your point and am absolutely supportive of taking in family members. Can all family provide such comprehensive and sometimes complex care when it is needed? Thanks :)
Consider health savings or life insurance instead? Go ask a Knight of Columbus haha
Don’t send your kids to college, big waste of money. Help them get a job or apprenticeship when they’re 14, by the time their peers are graduating they will be highly skilled, disciplined and if they want to purchase their own education for some technical field like nursing they will have savings of their own.
We had my parents stay with us about two months during some medical troubles. It was quickly more than we could handle. With subjects like this or going “back to the land” or other turning-back-the-clock notions, people just don’t know what they’re getting into. The world has changed.
@@Thomasfboyle Its about the right degree. Engineering is a very valuable degree. Problem is people think a degree will set you up, but that's just not true anymore.
I agree on the guy about Bitcoin. It’ takes too much energy.
Not for the value it represents. It's a true 21st century innovation, a decentralized "trustless" system of exchanging secure digital tokens in a distributed ledger. It is not inflationary, not controlled by one party or any government, can't be forged, and so far proven to work effectively for what it does. It can represent a type of "digital gold" going forward.
I've read a lot of Jacob's work and I'm increasingly convinced that he's just out over his skis here and doesn't have a very good grasp of moral theology, philosophical ethics, or the economic issues at stake here. Instead, I think we would all be better off if you brought on a well respected moral theologian (and maybe an economist) to get their opinions. In my view that would be preferable to someone who represents an extreme minority opinion unnecessarily burdening people's consciences. And BTW I'm no Bitcoin apologist. I think it's probably a bubble (but don't take investment advice from random guys on the internet). NB: I edited this to sound less harsh.
He has room to grow, and maybe this is the means for him to do so?
I enjoy seeing all the variety of spiritual points of others.
Yes, and make sure they’re indoctrinated in Catholic-American culture to avoid these serious confrontations with our consciences! But seriously, is what we’re doing working? And you’re asking for more status quo?
@@rageingbull56 No, I don't think that at all. Serious changes are needed on a whole host of fronts, but I also reject the idea that bad arguments will make these problems go away.
Not saving at all for retirement is probably a bit reckless. I agree children should take care of their parents unless it is overly burdensome (an extreme illness or need) but parents in the home can be a real blessing to help with children and other things. But I think parents should save a portion of their money so that when they are no longer able to work they can still help financially. I think another issue is we’re waiting to have children when we’re older so our parents get old at the same time we have new borns or young children and that certainly is too much.
A lot of the comments under this video are still loooking at it from not wanting to change the status quo of money focused instead of building community. Building a family business that’s able to support you and your family for generations and helps the community you’re in.
❤️🔥
1:20:30 Should Catholics invest in crypto
With all respect and I love your show and love this conversation but I have a 401k. And I disagree the opinion. I understand the opinion and am not mad at the opinion. But I don’t see in total that there is some sort of immorality of a 401k. I find the opinion that a Catholic shouldn’t have one is quite INTERESTING. This is why I love the show makes me think and again I understand the opinion and thinking process to why the 401k view is said but....I just don’t agree. Great show! Love this episode
Proof of time Solana
As for crypto, to me as a Catholic it was enough watching Dan Olson's (Folding Ideas) "documentary" (for lack of a better word) on crypto and NFTs and the method by which it operates, called Line Goes Up.
The scariest video I've seen in the past few months at least... and definitely made me certain I will NEVER participate in that.
That is a terrible documentary from someone with a poor grasp of the subject matter and extremely biased. Do your own research, seek out information from other real experts on Bitcoin, and make up your own mind
New Intros not long enough…
You talk about just clicking a button and telling a truth. What about the effort to learn those truths and the ability to communicate it. This all took effort before you clicked record. What is your ministry?
Matt, I appreciate your interviews but sometimes you are clueless about the United States. I am an American expat living in New Zealand. My husband was an English expat living here.
Once I asked him why Kiwis and Brits didn't fly their flags the way Americans do. He said their flags don't mean the same thing largely because they have the monarchy.
I encourage you to spend a half day at Fort McHenry to learn about the meaning of the American flag. Learn the national anthem, and its meaning.
It's only a four and a half hour drive to Fort McHenry.
Totalitarian states suppress the freedoms of individuals or restrict them within designated parameters. The current irony of them restricting what Catholics consider sinful surely shows how sinful humanity has become. So Matt and Jacob no, not strange at all.
1:25:25 "Probably the number one thing that people have been turning to, besides precious metals, is cryptocurrency. It really seems like there's no easy way to increase the amount that there is."
You just got done citing several frivolous meme coins invented for a laugh, and in a matter of months they went to the moon. How is that not the same as printing money?
Bottom up vs top down.
A community of independent nerds creates a gag token, the world’s largest military empire creates USD.
@@Thomasfboyle how does that justify the inconsistent condemnation? Both are printing money. Just admit that money is imaginary, but Jacob wants to get sanctimonious about gold standards.
@BM22 "fixed" what precisely, and how?
I think that's exactly why he used the word "seems"
I have some real difficulty with some of the financial suggestions, here. I think it borders on irresponsibility. Discouraging IRAs or 401k's seems a little far out and maybe even scrupulous... and Saving/investing = greed? In my world, it would be immoral of me to NOT plan for retirement and become a burden on my family. I generally like your content, especially when talking about things far more important than Bitcoin, but I'm not digging your guest's philosophy.
He specifies it and says that he is not against savings. I think his guest struggles with communication the nuance of his perspective, that is all, I was hoping for more pushback from Matt however.
Jacob and Marc Barnes talk about these issues at length on the New Polity podcast (look specifically for the "Good Money" series). They back up these statements with support from the early church fathers. Give it a listen.
I agree. I think ultimately, Jacob is just in over his head here and doesn't have the intellectual training to really address these questions. Much more qualified moral theologians have worked through and settled these issues. Hopefully Jacob will come across them and learn from them eventually.
@@smashandburn1 you keep referencing these more qualified theologians without actually mentioning who they are. Jacob is drawing quite heavily from Aquinas and other Church fathers here. Qualified sources to say the least. The argument is much more clear in the full podcast series New Polity did on this topic.
@@NathanBirdCHA Hi Nathaniel, perhaps your right that I've repeated myself too often. I'll go back and rewrite one of the comments. As for sources, if you want sources that show Jacob's work is in conflict with the current magisterium I would start with the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church and the USCCB's document on responsible investing (neither of which are above criticism, but both show that the Church by and large accepts the legitimacy of investing techniques that Jacob rejects). If you want analysis of how the Scholastic tradition developed after Aquinas on economic questions, then Marjorie Grice Hutchinson's "School of Salamanca" is a good resource. If you want contemporary treatments a good place to start is Sam Gregg's "Investing in Morality." Mary Hirschfeld's work is also probably worth reading if you're interested in this, although I think it has some pretty serious shortcomings (although it's pretty clear she rejects Jacob's views). Jimmy Akin also has a good little article on Catholic Answers. There are others but UA-cam comments are hardly an ideal forum for conducting discussions.
I really enjoy these shows and Jacob. However, Jacob and New Polity never get specific or provide any of the clarifying details to make their ideas realized/applicable.
Don't expect them to ever get specific. They can't, because socialism is evil and never makes sense. Doesn't matter if you slap "Catholic" in front of it.
@BM22 In Imam's case his office at Baylor with an endowed fellowship and which has a $1.85 billion endowment.
This message about retirement and failing to preparing for the future is so dangerous and misguided. It is irresponsible to promote such an opinion as ethical and moral. Is this person qualified to be presenting investing and financial advice to a broad audience?
The idea that our children are our retirement is selfish and in my opinion against the explicit teaching of Jesus.
Matt 8 : 21-22 . James 1: 27 states religion that is pure is taking care of widows and orphans and staying clean of the world. We need to prepare for the future and it is irresponsible to give financial advice in blanket statements.
Jacob and Marc Barnes talk about these issues at length on the New Polity podcast (look specifically for the "Good Money" series). They back up these statements with support from the early church fathers. Give it a listen.
@@NathanBirdCHA He claims on his site that our property rights are subject to what he says "the community" determines as "useful" to itself. Poppycock. "Thou shalt not steal." Property rights are assumed in the commandments and all throughout the Bible. Even when judgment came down hard upon Ananais and Sapphira in Acts, Peter told them, before they were struck dead, that their property was THEIRS and they could do what they wanted with it UNTIL they had bequeathed it to the community voluntarily. It was the lying they were judged for because they had represented they had given a certain amount but they held back some. But if Peter or the Apostles had ever claimed what this guy claims, they would be no better since that would be a demonstrable lie.
The idea that property rights are contingent upon the will of some group is commie nonsense, yet on his site it says this explicitly. He adds some vague notion of utility to the group, but this is just another version of collectivism/communism/socialism. Nobody cares if you put together some voluntary group where you have your own rules of collective ownership; that's liberty and the freedom to contract. But you cross the line when you start spewing out supposed universal principles which are totally in supportable as this one is. Where the hell did he derive a principle like that? It's not biblical. It's not Catholic. It's not rational.
@@MillionthUsername Now, someone who takes a man who is clothed and renders him naked would be termed a robber; but when someone fails to clothe the naked, while he is able to do this, is such a man deserving of any other appellation? The bread which you hold back belongs to the hungry; the coat, which you guard in your locked storage-chests, belongs to the naked; the footwear mouldering in your closet belongs to those without shoes. The silver that you keep hidden in a safe place belongs to the one in need. Thus, however many are those whom you could have provided for, so many are those whom you wrong.
-St Basil
@@MillionthUsername Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.
-Jesus
@@NathanBirdCHA So we are just to give everything away and not have anything for ourselves. Not food, clothes, or shelter? We are poor and just barely hanging by a thread. We can't even take care of ourselves without the help of the government, let alone take care of others and give what little we have away. We need to be able to take care of ourselves completely first before we can give to others.
I looked up New Polity and found this gem: "God gave the world to all of us, and this means that property is never unconditionally removed from its common state, as Locke would have it, but only ever insofar as it is made useful for the community." This is essentially communism. This is not Catholic. Also in that same article on capitalism (Apparently this guy has something other in mind where "the community" will tell you what you own, what to do with what you own, etc. He says it will be your parent and have authority over you. Fascinating. Tell us more, comrade!), the writer says that capitalists (guilty!) are "big babies," and that Austrian economists are babies throwing tantrums (because they describe how man acts in the economic sense. Oh, the horror!). Incredible ad hominem attacks, not much argument, which is typical of socialist/authoritarian/Utopian types. So what is the new system being proposed?
Who will be in charge of my property and my economic activity? A local commissar or a grand central committee, or both? Will the Church determine the price of my vegetables if I decide to plant a field (assuming I'll be allowed to own one if "the community" allows me)? Please tell us! And I would particularly like to inquire as to how this guy's resources are "made useful for the community," and who decides that, and by what process. Is it up for review?
I would like to know what rights, if any, he thinks human beings have, and how they acquired those rights. Are any of them God given and inviolable from a moral standpoint, or are they all "constructs" and flexible according to whether they are "made useful for the community"? Define "useful," and "community," while you're at it. Where do you propose the license comes to take property? What happened to, "You shall not steal"?
In order for "the community" to know whether or not something I own is "made useful for the community," they would have to know everything about my property and what I do with it, so who or what will I be reporting to? What is the punishment for failing to report, or not reporting accurately? Will my property then be seized and handed over in order to be "made useful for the community"? By force, I suppose? Or is this all voluntary? If it's voluntary, and I can just easily get out this system - and I certainly would just as soon as it was proposed that I hand over my property because I was judged to have made bad use of it - how can it ever be a real economy? In reality, people don't want committees taking their property from them, hence one of the basic insights of economists that people act economically in their own self-interest. Duh. Ever notice how you don't really see any substantial examples of voluntary socialism apart from very small groups here and there? I wonder why that is. How will prices be set across the world of the "New Polity"? The writer of the anti-capitalist article I read says that we will be happy to be peasants, and implies that "the community" will make everything work just right. I'd like to know the mechanics of that theory because my understanding is that people don't want to be mere peasants if they have a choice. Prove me wrong. Ugh! Very sad to have come across such nonsense claiming to be Catholic.
The Church has always warned about the "menace of capitalism," and soundly condemned socialism and communism (nowhere is New Polity proposing that the State own everything)...I think the answer is Distributivism. The Catholic way is to kick this stuff around--it's a good conversation to have! Catholicism has a big tent of intellectual thought--it makes sense that we would have this around how we spend our money. Our Lord certainly had alot to say about how we handle money.
@@cml2176 Problem with Distributivism and I like it its ideas are that its not really thought out and is antiquated, because of it's not been seriously thought about for almost a century. I find that people who promote it live in a dream world or are just using it to disguise their socialism/communism.
This is a gross misunderstanding of what that article actually says (it's called Capitalism is for Big Babies for those interested). New Polity is trying to find a different approach to building a just society aside from the tyrannical paradigm of communism and the unbridled selfishness of capitalism. What they've always recommended is individual persons making just use of their property and power for the common good, the good of all those around us. It is a matter of the individual practice of the virtues of justice and prudence. The article was satirising the common model in economic theory of man as being ultimately self-interested by drawing the analogy to how babies can only conceive of and seek to meet their own needs, whereas even older children would be mature enough to understand that it would be wrong to prioritise their own enrichment above all else.
You guys are so ignorant of crypto.
If you don't know be silent.
What a sad show.
Get someone more qualified.
Please.
It’s called discussion. Not an “experts discuss expert knowledge things”
that argument is really bad. Im not saying they are ignorant at the subject. But lets supose they are, if they dont know about what are they talking about, its irresponsible to discuss such a important topic in front of thousands of people. They are not in a pub.
@@joaogabrieltrindadedias4308 lol!!!! The show!!! It’s literally called PINTS WITH AQUINAS !!! They are basically discussing stuff as if they were in a pub.
@@gabolujan3109 but they are not in a pub.
Non stop crypto comments here looks like trolling
there is great hunger for an upcoming technology that could potentially disrupt the world, just like the internet did - of course people are interested to see a catholic discourse on this.
Please prove that crypto-related comments are trolling, thanks.
These guys know little about crypto. Xrp has real use being used for a new financial system. Real catholic here.
1:24:00
@@Beetcast XRP is a scam that seeks to perpetuate the very real problems in the financial sector and to enrich its founders.
Only Bitcoin has the ability to solve these issues.
Matt endorsed a new crypto with a name that was a euphemism for "Fk Joe Biden"? (1:18:25)
What a role model
Guys like this are not catholic. Their God is politics. They make careers on having an opinion that at the end of the day we have no power over. Real catholics live in the silence knowing what's right and wrong. Praying and doing works. Within God's will.
@@Beetcast so you can tell who Catholic is or not, must be a saint I guess.
I think you guys just read to much into it.
@@markaurelevangelista8622 on my way towards it.
@@Beetcast I guess Matt, who you called not a Catholic too ;)
@@markaurelevangelista8622 I hope so.
Jacob Imam with the worst takes in anything relating to financing once again.
I'd really like to hear one conversation that doesn't start with complaining about cancel culture. Just don't be mean to trans people online
Telling the truth is not the same as being mean.