Horus and the Emperor actually played a game of Horus Heresy Legions CCG. Where Emperor wanted to play his good ol' Valdor deck. Horus was given early access to untweaked potentially broken Vheren Ashurhaddon by Everguild(Chaos Gods). Which left the Emperor crippled and demotivated in playing rank ever again for 10,000 years.
Vheren Ashurhaddon = better Ezekyle Abaddon Balthazzar Dupain still better cthonian though To the four people who saw this comment, i would just like to say that 5E Overseer Ludarch through Ashurhaddon’s 2E or lead the speartip is borderline broken
I love when the Emperor got beaten by Horus, he stood in front of his father and said "Stand Proud, Father. You are Strong" Then the Emperor stood, unleash his sanctic power and said "Nah, I'd Win"
That didn't really happen at all though, Horus absolutely beat Emps and pretty much found out the secret that was underwriting the Emperor all along, he was never a proper god and really was just relying on a bunch of 'random bullshit go' plans all along that ultimately ended in one of the many plan D's that was him sitting on the golden throne forever whilst the galaxy burns in everlasting war. Horus was destroyed, but the Emperor was revealed to be what he always said he was, absolutely not a god, capable of becoming one but never meant to be one
The two sat down and played a game of combat patrol, but Horus has the AdMech combat patrol while the emperor had the custodes. Horus never could've won
I think you forgot an important point. John and Oll didn't just appear. They brought the Knife to the Emperor, and that Knife was used to finally end Horus.
I prefer the 1990s style of presenting the ancient history of the Imperium as in-universe documents. When you have 30 years of canon to deal with it's very helpful to make all of the sources questionable, so that nothing breaks when for example you want to explore what happened in famous world-changing events.
GW has been downgrading its lore for years now to make the product popular with a certain political ideology in the USA since the people of that particular ideology hate any sort of stuff that could even remotely be interpreted as a critique of their ideology. As a result, this removal of anything that looked like something political has opened the game to people of Fascistic ideology who can now enjoy the setting straight, instead of, having to ignore most of the setting except their Nazi-looking Astra Militarum.
@@viktorgabriel2554 You say that in jest and the reality is that GW has slowly pruned the Grim out of the Dark since 4th ed. I remember in 4th ed. there was a fluff section that was a report of the harvest from an aggri-world. It stated that some people doing the harvesting had died of starvation, on an aggri-world during harvest where food should be the most plentiful. Things such as these are completely absent from the lore these days. In the old days, the IoM was presented as the least bad option, now the IoM is just a utilitarian faction that does the "tough BUT necessary." People who have a Fascístic ideology love that shit as it confirms their own biases of what their ideal society would be like while the old presentation of the IoM was fully what their ideal society would be like. By slowly removing all the stuff that presented the IoM as a society driven by Fascistic ideology no one should even conceptually try to emulate GW has enabled people of a Fascistic ideology to fully enjoy the hobby. GW has welcomed them unintentionally while saying that people of a Fascistic ideology are unwelcome in the hobby. This creates a cognitive dissonance where people with a Fascistic ideology are told they're unwelcome yet everything shown practically welcomes them in by presenting the IoM as the defacto heroes while having the IoM run on Fascistic ideology. In the old days, the organisation and the religion that made up the IoM would have "accidented" Guiliman since his ideology would be detrimental to the continued existence of the organisation they knew. It's inorganic that they all just accepted him when he's the stranger in a strange land.
@@nielsjensen41852000ad and rogue trader and the paranoia rpg (there was even a scenario in white dwarf where some troubleshooters accidentally ended up on a 40k battle field and had to fight there way out) all had the same dark humour reflection of the political landscape of the previous 50 years. Most of the good guys…really aren’t good. At best am unwilling cog in the machine. It was great. Now it seems gw at least is just a form of click-bait
Just got done with the book. Minor spoilers: it was a good wrap-up for the Siege of Terra. Overall, I'm happy with how things panned out. Yet GW needs to make a Great Scouring series. An epilogue is badly needed for the Horus Heresy.
It's insane how powerful Horus is, like the book makes it quite clear that the Emperor is horrifically outmatched and only wins through increasingly desperate tricks and gambits. The raw power of chaos is genuinely scary.
I really don’t care for space marine stuff, but I feel like they did Sanguinius dirty. I also hate how soft everything else ended up being. Now Horus isn’t confirmed obliterated and the emperor is out in space. They purposefully left room to do Horus Heresy 2 if the sales start to slump. I really really hate that.
@@AAhmou Yes, he’s a perpetual, but he’d have to die/deactivate the throne and let humanity fall to Chaos to come back before. Now they can keep the throne and have him come back at the same time. That was my main thought.
I seriously doubt that will happen. Also the star child Emperor is literally one of the oldest bits of 40k lore What were you expecting with Sanguinius? He had to die and die brutally. It’s central to his character
The Starchild stuff has been a thing for a long, long time. Horus not being totally obliterated is likely just going to sit in their back pocket if and when GW gets desperate enough to do an end times 40K series
Kinda feels like Loken was done bad. Not like "And for being the hero Loken's reward is dying for nothing" but more like "Oh and Loken dies too or something I guess"
@@alvinadorno6105 Yeah. We get it. But the way it happened is so boring and anticlimactic. That is what I'm annoyed by. It could have been a lot better easily.
@@amw5288 How about a 10 chapter long duel between him and Erebus on a lava planet, where they flip around on hover boards above lava rivers, climb buildings while fighting each other. And in the end!!! Erebus stabs Loken. Lol
Except he wasnt. It wasnt the unknown guardman, it was a crappy Perpetual self-insert-OC which means the entire scene meant nothing. Same as the presence of the Dark King one.
@@ANDELE3025honestly, it makes more sense this way, the old lore always felt like a collection of loyalist stories, with legends always having a bit of truth to them
@@domotrizz5710 But it doesn't, 1. because its a perpetual -fueled clowncar segment 2. because as flawed as the BL books are, they at least set up fake Ollanius as the "for my people" guy. The two factors make the impact of "humanity together standing and fighting as one no matter if superhuman or a common soldier" completely void and gone from it. Hell just replace Dorns pointless presence on the ship (why the fuck would he leave or better yet Emp let him leave the siege itself when defense is his specialty) with a second squad of the guard lead by Alpharius (to mirror Leetu being with Persson), Alpharius fights off Erebus letting a handful escape, most die and the one side guy to be the one that intercepts a actual final blow. Same thing with Horus being redeemed. It fundamentally fucks not just the lore, but the message of it. But in the end it doesnt matter, Black library themselves claim everything and nothing from them is canon. As such per game codex it canonically remains that wasn't a marine, it wasnt a perpetual, it wasnt a custodes, it wasnt a clown car configuration of the prior each time interrupting horus trying to get E to celebrate a chaos birthday on a plastic chair; it was in fact just a regular soldier that offered his life for humanity as a whole and the Emperor.
@@domotrizz5710 mby but it's way less cool. As a guard player i love the idea of old O.P. and its even a good methaphor that with all these super humans the only one who can save the Imperium are humans who live in it.
@@patrykpatoleta8156 oh dude trust me I’m a IG player too, but this feels more realistic imo, ppl have to remember that the old lore is the legend known in 40K, so it doesn’t mean that the IG don’t believe it or anything, I hope that makes it sound a bit better. Frankly I’m pretty satisfied with this ending as it doesn’t change too much and it feels much more grounded
I find it truly fascinating that both the Emperor AND Horus were both given the chance to be the Dark King, but both refused, shunning the Chaos Gods and being true to themselves in the process. I really like it.
I never thought this could happen, but looks like there is a potential redemption arc that could happen. Previously never thought possible as old lord said that Emps obliterated Horus into non-canonicity and non-existence Now we find this isn’t the case….. …. Wow, that would be the greatest middle finger to the chaos gods, more than any other redemption arc involving the fallen primarchs
@@JediLordWong Maybe at least some of the primarchs can be redeemed? The Emperor possessing Guilliman told Mortarion that he could still be redeemed at least.
I don't understand the point of caring about the Primarchs. The Empire of Man already has more factions, characters, and units than all the rest of the setting put together. Redeeming the CSM isn't going to help with that, it will just make it worse.
@@alexlyster3459 me too, for me Magnus is the one most deserving of redemption, even though he did dig his own grave no matter how much people say ‘Magnus did no wrong’. In a way he is quite pitiable and even a Space Wolf player like me can sympathize even if I still want to break his back again. Then again, if I am not mistaken, the Emperor did offer him a chance to rejoin the fold back in the palace before the teleportation to Vengeful Spirit, but I think this chunk of Magnus is devoid of the good part that wants to do the right thing, so didn’t work out. And I think by now, there is no good part of Magnus left, only the daemon of chicken we have now. In all seriousness, everyone else should continue suffering in their own self made hells. I have almost no sympathy for Mortarion and Perturabo. Lorgar is the worst, I still have wet dreams of everyone stomping on him while asking him who is his daddy. Same with Fulgrim.
The fact that Horus basically realize the error of his way letting the emperor kill him at the last second isn't really a change since that was already how the story went, but I do hope the fact that they don't clearly mention his soul being totally wiped out doesn't mean they are setting up some lame plotline to revive him at some point.
@@vector6006that was a joke between the legion though, wasn't it? When Horus killed that warlord pretending to be the Emperor? I'm not sure if he was always on the ship? 🤔 It's cool, though.
The Emperor that supposedly burned Nurgle's Garden is a completely different Warp entity than the dead guy in the chair, created by humanity's belief in Big E and warped by their conflicting views on him. If he ever truly becomes part of the Big Four/Five, humanity is officially Eldar'd.
In regards to Samus, remember time flows differently in the warp. To us Slaanesh was made when the Eldar empire fell. To the Chaos Gods Slaanesh was and wasn't always there. It's constantly hammered into you in the End and the Death. Loken becoming Samus or his death creating Samus makes some sense. Samus constantly says he is the man behind you. The feeling you get when you're alone in the dark of someone being there. I think this is due to all the betrayal Loken suffered, being literally and figuratively back stabbed which caused the most emotional agony for him. Even his former mournival brother Aximand heard the breathing of someone behind him, as though he was being stalked. Aximand was filled with regret for betraying his friends and in the end was killed by Loken. God I want justice to reach that cockroach Erebus. Abaddon was really well done in the Siege series, especially his appearances in EATD. I like how there can be actual broterhood and peace even between chaos and loyalist marines, just depending on their former bond. Can't wait to actually read the book and see for myself what else is going on.
That doesn’t make it any less lame that Samus couldn’t just be a random daemon and instead once again everything had to tie together. It makes the universe feel smaller. It’s the only thing these books are consistently good at.
@@ImrahilToChaos I disagree, I don't think it's a big deal, I think it's a proper grim-dark send off to one of the most beloved characters in the entire series, that his suffering caused the daemon which haunted him and his compatriots since before the heresy even began. Samus was pretty personal to the Sons of Horus and even their remembrancers. Horus literally mentions like a dozen or more daemons attacking earth, some we know, some we don't. And I mean the series as a whole added a fuck-ton of characters and explored basically every legion during the time. The only way I see 40k getting smaller is modern 40k lore where the primarchs and heroes are everywhere and dueling every primarch and hero and not dying. Not the Horus Heresy series at all, which ultimately is more personal.
I like the Emperor's final words to Horus. It's sometimes hard to gauge what the Emperor's relationship was with his sons, but being that he's forgives Horus even though he pretty much almost ruined the Empire, the Emperor comes off as actually having love for his sons
@@everythingsalright1121 Yeah, wild how it's almost as if the Emperor always loved his sons. Yet every writer and their mother wants to present the Emperor as an asshole despite the fact that was NEVER the lore. Kinda turns the whole resulting thing from a tragedy to a farce.
@@ZeroNumerous well if he loved them then he sure had a funny way of showing it considering that him leaving the crusade to go back to terra and not telling anyone what hes working on is what caused the huge divide in the first place. then we get to guillaman talking to the emperor after he gets brought back and the emperor calls him a tool and his last hope. not exactly what he needed to hear considering guilliman isnt exactly optimistic about the imperium, since he himself basically says that horus shouldve killed them all instead of the imperium continuing to exist in horrible stagnation.
@@everythingsalright1121i personally feel that the writer of that one really wanted the emperor painted to be a self serving tyrant and had the perfect opportunity to do so, so they took it. Though i do also agree with alot of the fan base making the point that if he is to actually speak so harshly, it was because of how tormented and scattered he is sitting on the throne and people can be extra harsh when they are suffering even if what they say isnt how they actually feel
@@ZeroNumerousangron and konrad would like to have a word with you. Konrad clearly was off his rocker from day one yet Emps did nothing to help him. Angron just his story alone shows that emps didnt care about his sons other then seeing them as tools. Also Magnus and to an extent Lorgar and those two really loved emps. But he had a odd way of showing it back He loved them so much that he didnt have one closer to him as he was the backup(magnus) and the other he wasnt more direct with(lorgar). Oh then there is Perturabo for a guy who can read minds and "loves" his sons its odd how he didn't think to I dont know give the man-child who sucked in his emotions some recognition.
I’m actually a big fan of how the fight went down. I like that the writers portrayed the emperor as a psyker who, despite his incredible power, can also fall to evil and become a threat to humanity that is far worse than the chaos gods. In that sense, I’m ok with the emperor fighting an uphill battle against Horus, it shows that he needed to hold back in order to preserve his humanity. I’ve always felt the emperor was a little too perfect, at least from the perspective of his power. Now we see that he was just an especially powerful psyker, equally susceptible to corruption, and his efforts against the chaos gods had not been epic warp battles like some of the old lore implied, but instead had been acts of subversion. I love it, much better writing in my eyes
A few things: We also kinda got to see how Perturabo ultimately fell to Chaos and ascended. He wanted to become the ultimate weapon and the data had shown him how... the "data"... and there would be sacrifices to achieve it. Also, Constantine really disappointed me I gotta say. For a guy who supposedly could give any of the Primarchs a run for their money I thought he got pushed around or out-smarted in every fight in these books.
Sure but you had him checked by, what, a few Terminators? Sanguinius was killing Titans for crying out loud and it has frequently been said Constantin could match the Primarchs. He just really disappointed me.
shouldn’t it be Kryil sinnderman? Or malcador? Also when will Fo’s bio weapon be used? Was there any mentioned of a astartes purge with bio weapon in the old lore?
@@bufan7177 emphasis on a, not THE. He manages to clone Zaranchek Xanthus (one of Malcador's chosen) and upload a copy of his own mind into it before the original Fo dies. Then after Xanthus dies, Fo 2.0 takes his place.
I know some people are knocking the tarot card thing. Originally I was going to say it was weird, but was--in a way--meant to portray the battle between the Big E and Horus/Chaos in a psychic battle so esoteric and strange that it's presented to mortal minds as tarot because we can't *process* such a high plane of psychic activity. But then I wondered--what if that's "the great game" the Chaos gods play, and for a brief moment, as both sides were being pushed into becoming the 5th Chaos God, they ultimately were PLAYING the game the Dark Gods play?
Overexposing lore often makes a story worse and I feel the Horus Heresy quickly became a vessel for some authors' personal interests than painting a full picture. Some of it is good, some of it is fine and some of it does not belong. At this point anyone who picks and chooses what lore they feel is right is entirely valid, there are several points that can be discarded without significantly changing anything (Erda and Astartes being prominent examples).
They had to insert wahmen of power into the story to "modernize" it. In prior books, astartes were commanders. Now, they all have frail human female strategists and fleet commanders
Makes me think that the old lore will now be considered a collection of stories known by loyalist astartes But this, this is the truth, and sometime the truth is much more dark and sinister
No chink in the armour but Horus would have won if Sanguinius hadn't gone to fight him first. That was the gift of forsight. Sanguinius/Malcador/Oll truly the heroes of the Imperium.
I just wanna touch on the fact that Abaddon managed to slay several Custodes by himself, BEFORE he was Warmaster. A feat previously only accomplished by Important Greater Daemons and a handful of Primarchs, one of which was Angron, who’s long been tied with Sanguinius as the canonical “best fighter Primarch”. This means Abaddon was a fucking freak of nature on a level with the best of the Primarchs and named Custodes even BEFORE he gets his Chaos Powers, which in turn… ruins the whole thing about the Fourteen Black Crusades. He could easily have won the vast majority of those conflicts single handedly, given that maybe two of them involved any of the Primarchs(and he’d even gotten a rep for slaying those by then, too), meaning he had no equals in those fights. Cadia shoulda fell ages ago.
I just want to make it clear: You walked into the franchise that has objectively ripped off dune DOZENS of times, spawned from the franchise that ripped off Tolkien hundreds of times, and you picked the one thing that is just a trope? How do you miss THAT HARD. Like, this isn't the broad side of a barn. It's the broad side of a 10 story industrial meat farm with a target painted squarely on the side, and a bunch of flashing neon lights saying "aim here" and you somehow hit the small farm house down the street
So the soul fragment thing sounds pretty Star Child to me, which is interesting. And Horus not being completely obliterated, with those being the Emperor's final words to him... that's gotta be foreshadowing. Dan Abnett is setting something up here, for sure.
I feel like the Starchild and Dark King concepts will be constantly teased but never acted on because either one would be way too big a shake up in 40K
and in true GW fashion, Erebus kills a beloved and well developed character by stabbing them... Really? Such an epic hero, a veteran of countless battles who stood between his primarch and the emperor. Garviel Loken. Killed by a classic case of shit Erebus writing
Erebus is quite literally a bad writing escape route. If you don't know what to do with the character but want them to be gone just slap some Erebus backstabbing lol.
Nice lore break down. Pretty important moment in the history. Seems like they've left a few doors open for new plot developments within the current setting. "I wait for you ..." Is very intriguing. Thank Auspex 💀
Personally I dont even consider all of HH to be canon. Its mostly poor writing, with occasional glimpses of something neat. All of 40k has pretty much forgotten the "grimdark" and now its all about uberspecials DBZ-ing each-other and retconning everything into "Nooooo it was secretly 69D mega-chess and everyone was an ubermastermind who planned it forever"
@@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955 even Tzeench, the infinite plotter that knows all, was outsmarted (twice) by some meatbags with the power of friendship. like ok lol
@@Derek-b9f That aint even scratching the surface of how much of the original themes, lore and even just basic points of the setting have been completely annihilated
I think it’s telling that despite the community stating the emperor sees the primarchs as “tools”, when addressing the chaos gods, he asks “why his son is slain.” He could have easily disassociated at that point, but still calls Horus his son.
The thing is, he cast his fragment of his soul containing all his hope and humanity away into the stars.. the part of him that treated the primarchs as his sons, and yet he still coldly asked why his son is slain. The fact that even without his humanity he considered sanguinius his son kinda makes up for how shittily they retconned sanguinius' efforts against horus.
Some books have the emperor being kind and friendly to primarchs, like magnus skype calling the emperor, other have the emperor refer to the primarchs as tools , different writers take different styles.
Oh the Samus thing is easy to explain: time goes wonky in the warp, and if Samus' existence is tied to Loken, conceptually he always existed at the same time Loken has existed. That does not make Samus a timetraveller or anything. Makes you wonder how many demons actually don't "exist yet" and could be purged for good once you figure out the event that creates them and the person they are connected to. If Erebus has that knowledge or a method to figure that out it puts him into the top 10 most powerful entities of the setting. We definetly have not seen the last of that fucker yet even in 40k.
I rlly love the part where the emporer does a backflip and points at Horus before saying, "I am the renegade raider you were just a default skin" before skibidiing away
Abnet nailed it! Amazing ending, think he really did it justice and so kany interesting and new bits too. Gutted the series has come to and end, hope we get some of the scouring though.
It would be excellent to have a companion to the books that showed what each of the combatants rolled for their attacks and saves in the course of each battle.
In the books it says the emperor split off a part of himself one being his rational side and he cast his emotions and everything related to that into the warp. the books even say that the cast away fragment would grow over time. im pretty sure that guilliman spoke with the emotionless husk on the throne and that the one who burned nurgle's garden was his "other half"
So I guess Sanguinius cracking his armor didn't really do much of anything. That's really sad, that they made his sacrifice not the key to the Emperor's victory at all.
Actually no, because of his forsight Sanguinius knew that if the Emperor went to fight Horus before he did, the Emp would lose as Sang was fated to die by Horus' hand. So whilst there was no chink in the armour Sang still sacrificed himself for the chance of the Emperor winning.
Wow, seriously epic stuff and thankfully, didn’t change TOO much from the established lore except for the last part regarding You Know Who the heresy is named for. Surprisingly a bittersweet ending, but much less bitter than I thought. If that last moment was anything hopeful, the chaos gods might have another middle finger coming at them in the future. And oh what great irony that would be. Don’t plan to collect the books, so thank you so much for the good summary. Thanks
What really happened is that horus showed up, they had a drinking contest for the galaxy. Horus died of alcohol poisoning and the emporer has been trying to sleep off the hang over ever since.
in the instance of SAMUS, that was explained. Warp entities are separate from linear time. They come into existence, and they cease to exist. If all the ingredients are present in a timelime (horus falling to chaos, The emperor creating him, etc) and time has no hold on the WARP then to a daemon time is an ocean, not a river. it can come to be at any point in a linear timeline and its existence can manifest whenever it wants to, or NEEDS to in order to complete its role in the schemes of the Chaos Gods. Loken's role is to maintain his honor/loyalty, maintain his worth to what the lunar Wolves were, and determined worthy enough to banish Samus in order to be a worthy sacrifice to create Samus. Ultimately, loken is the lamb that must be sacrificed for the heresy to have ever occurred in the first place.
This book does answer one more question, we now know what the Terminus Sanction is, it's Fo's weapon, and the complete annihilation of all Space Marines and Primarchs, apparently specific enough and powerful enough to destroy even the Daemon Primarchs.
It's now extremely possible that the King in Yellow, the as-of-yet unidentified puppetmaster in the Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and Bequin novels could be Horus, in addition to the other possible candidates (Valdor, Lorgar, Dorn one of the lost Primarchs).
@@TitaniumDragoonNeoits literally stated his name is Constantin Valdor. And his chapter name is pandemonium which is the next king in yellow book. You just reaching.
So a Death at the End of The End and The Death created Samus, and Samus means The End and The Death Dan Abnett why did you have to kill your best character for a pun
From the moment a demon is created it exists both forward and backward in time. That is why the emperors sword is such a huge deal. It can kill a demon, a true death. Once killed a demon is erased in the past, present, and future. I wonder what someone like guilliman will do with that sword when he realizes what is in his power. If he tracks down the daemons that communed with erebus he can potentially change the heresy, maybe even avert it. He could easily make things worse too. I can see them resetting 40k with that sword.
GW needs to finalize the differences between a God and a Chaos God. Apparently all gods are Chaos Gods now? I thought a God was an entity singled out by mortals for worship while a Chaos God was like a natural disaster in the Warp, created on accident by a surplus of unrestricted emotions. I actually don't think modern GW thought it through at all.
There are only two kind of gods in the 40k universe, the gods of the material ( aka the c'tan) and gods of the warp. Any god that doesn't exist in the material / real world ( of 40k) is a god of the warp and technically a form of chaos god, just not the big 4. Mortal races can make there own gods via there belief, but there still gods of the warp since that's where they form from that belief. So far the ctan have been the only know gods of the material world in 40k... and well those have mostly all been captured like Pokémon. Is this a retcon? no idea, but its been like this since i joined the hobby back in like 2012
@@sirpieman300 only definition that makes sense. If you keep in Mind that in the beginning the Warp was called the Realm of Souls and not inherently Evil. Khaine, Gork and Mork are not evil by their races definition.
Khaine, Isha, Greater Good, Gork and Mork, (post-heresy) Emperor - they're all gods, but there's only 4 *chaos* gods. A chaos god is just a god that's aligned with the 8-arrowed star crew. Simple as. Because in fantasy, the Great Horned Rat is considered a chaos god too, just because the other 4 (well, 3) consider him one.
Horus "Draw your last pathetic card so i can end this, Emperor" Emperor "Sanguinius's deck has no pathetic cards Horus, but it does contain the unstoppable Exodia"
Small point but Basilio Fo didn’t die. At the very end we see that he disguised himself as Xanthus (?), the Chosen who he killed, and that he sneaked off with a load of Malcador’s notes.
I liked when he swung, then Horus said “yeah but did it hit me?” And then the Emp said….”yup” and then Horus said “yeah but did it wound me?” And Emp was all like “uh, yup!” And then Horus was all like “nope, didn’t go past the armour!” And then Emp was all like “Kk, your turn.”
Regarding Samus: That's not unheard of in the setting. Slaanesh had a very specific point of birth but is often talked about as having always existed as well.
Yes, it's pretty established that linear time doesn't exactly work in the warp and daemons essentially exist outside of such definitions often appearing before the specific material event that birthed them. If anything, the great powerful betrayal that created Samus isn't even between Loken and Erebus, it's a ruthless betrayal to the reader who convinced themselves of some grander climax to Loken's story despite the writing being on the wall from the get go. And that would be entirely up Abnett's alley as he clearly likes getting metaphysical & medium bending, with Samus more or less being powered by memes in the Dawkins sense of the word- extending that to the readers themselves sounds like his jam.
This is your captain speaking on your flight tonight. We are expecting mild turbulence on takeoff, but mild weather and smooth flying for the rest of the flight. Please keep all arms and legs within the aircraft at all times and enjoy your flight.
@@rudolfnv6666 or... Someone that has all information almost as soon as GW publishes them, and puts out multiple edited videos analysing them daily is more machine than human. AI or at least a cyborg. 😅
Makes me wonder if the goal of the heresy, from a chaos perspective, was to birth a fifth god, out of either Horus or the Emperor by forcing him to take on dark warp powers to overcome the threat. I think the emperor is functionally dead, the body on the throne is just echoing his last will to keep terra safe. However, that shard of the emperor that he broke off is something different, 10,000 years of human worship and empowerment have made it quite different to the more limited, more human emperor at the time of the heresy. Perhaps chaos did succeed in birthing a fifth god, but not quite to plan...
2 likely scenarios 1.) The most likely, the Star Child becomes basically Sigmar in 40K a Deity completely Anathema to Chaos but not as OP as them but Can Reasonably Beat them. 2.) Bummer version it just becomes the Dark King, but that a bit more unlikely as if it than the backlash would be much worse than the End Times in Fantasy
I started another Master's degree as the series got started so I haven't had time to read it. This ending was foreshadowed in "Fulgrim" when Horus saw what Fulgrim had become and wondered what he'd gotten himself into. I thought Horus might have second thoughts in the final battle but I didn't foresee the Emperor being tempted by Chaos. Neat!
The whole Horus Heresy book series is such a shitshow. Unnecessary plot twists, the whole perpetual thing, Primarchs acting like children, clear pandering for certain legions and characters from authors. They didn't even tried make a coherent thing out of this.
If you look at all the key points from the old fight, they are still all present in the new one, just sightly changed details. The emperor and horus srill fight on a scale that defeys reality. The emperor still holds love for his son. The emperor still holds back, just rather than out of love for Horus its our of lover foe humanity as if he used his full power he would destroy horus and be reborn as a warp god dooming humanity. Someone still steps between the emperor and hours and horus strikes them down, just noe they have combined all three previous mentions wirh a guardsman, a space marine and a cuatodes doing it. Horus still realises how fsr he's fallen and regrets it before his death, and the emperor srill channels all his power to obliterate Horus.
Many of the old Visions of Heresy books had Horus realise what he has done and ask the Emperor to strike him down, so the only "new" lore regarding his death is the Anathema blade. It makes sense, tho, as the Emperor was not powerful enough to strike him down at that point.
And that part of the Emperor's soul went onto become Sly Marbo, and still is to this day. Mostly because even the Emps likes having a bit of fun as a human from time to time (read fun as !!fun!!)
That's the only way to read and write !!FUN!! . I mean 40k is one of the few settings were this is the correct definition of !!FUN!! .. Failure, Struggle and Clowncarts included.
12:32 It was said originally that Horus had Chaos influence driven out of him and he begged the Emperor to kill him before they could take him again. It's not EXACTLY what happened here from your description (with Horus rejecting them outright) but I like it, it gives him more agency without actually changing the events.
I have a couple of questions if anyone has read it. Does anyone (originally the Emperor I think? Or was it a Primarch?) still declair "Hail Malcador, Hero of the Imperium" before he is removed to make way for the Emps? And are their still people in the Palace after his interment that know the Throne is a slowly decaying machine?
The part I liked the most was when the emperors and horus’ fight was so fierce that it took them across dimensions until they arrived in the world where every conflict is solved by playing card games, so horus pulled out his deck and was like “it’s time to du-du-du-du-duell” and the Emperor was just fine with it so he halted his attack to play a round of Tarot.
![THE EMPEROR OF MAN [1] The Rise of Humanity | WARHAMMER 40,000 Lore / History](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KyPjE1Sn-Ts/mqdefault.jpg)
My favourite part was when the Emperor said “you cannot win, my son. I have 12 attacks, BS 2+, strength 10, AP -4, damage 4 with dev wounds”
twin linked
Anti chaos 2+
Don't forget he can do a Borrower attack like a Mawloc and eat Horus by popping from below deck, just a 4+ after Horus is below half wounds
10,000 years too early for Dev wounds son
Except Horus has Strikes First... 😂
ANNNNND HERE COMES EREBUS WITH THE STEEL CHAIR
fuck erebus
Still wouldnt get as big a pop as Stone Cold Steve Austin in his hey-day.
BY GAWD! LOKEN'S BROKEN IN HALF! ABBADON CAN'T BELIEVE IT!
FROM THE TOP ROPE
The fkn visual 😍
Horus and the Emperor actually played a game of Horus Heresy Legions CCG. Where Emperor wanted to play his good ol' Valdor deck. Horus was given early access to untweaked potentially broken Vheren Ashurhaddon by Everguild(Chaos Gods). Which left the Emperor crippled and demotivated in playing rank ever again for 10,000 years.
Emperor should’ve played Melee knights, all fun there
I love how like less than 50 people get this joke.
Emperor was playing his favorite custodian deck while Horus was playing meta
Vheren Ashurhaddon = better Ezekyle Abaddon
Balthazzar Dupain still better cthonian though
To the four people who saw this comment, i would just like to say that 5E Overseer Ludarch through Ashurhaddon’s 2E or lead the speartip is borderline broken
I saw people complaining that they had a Yugioh duel for the fate of humanity, idk why to me that's peak 40k lore lol
Oh my God... HE ACTUALLY DID THE BACKFLIP AND DECLARED HE WAS THE WARHAMMER 40000!
No...
Yes..
Missed that chapter!?
He never said that!
John Warhammer himself?!?!?
Are we saying that Dan Abnett has made Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker canon???
Beat me to it, damn you
That also implies that Dan Abnett fully watched the TTS series and liked it enough to put it in the final battle🤯
I do believe he did.
I'm dead serious when saying that's peak 40k lore lol
I thought that game was a fucking joke. It's now officially canon.
Can’t believe the emperor would reject such an honor like becoming the Great Horned Rat.
Insulting, really.
Yes yes
To be fair, many comparisons can be drawn between Skavens and the Astra Militarum
Yes, yes....now he wait until horny one is banished, for horned one to rise rise
@@sonarchy5158 Ratling snipers are actually ascended humans
I like how all series everyone called him Jimmy Space but then at the end he tells the old lady his name is James.
"James what?"
"James WORKSHOP."
One thing is for certain and that is the Erebus is still the biggest asshole in all off 30k / 40k lore
My favorite bit of fanfic is the Lionel heresy where Erabus becomes a sentient ever burning torture torch banner for Lorgar lol.
He killed Erda. He's the best character ever.
After finishing volume part 3. I just wanted to choke Erebus 😅
@@ShadyOakMinistries One good deed out of a thousand evil ones
Turbo Pope Lorgar!@@AltoStratusX1
Good to know the most epic battle of 40k turned into a yugioh battle
Don't you mean "Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker"?
Thats how you know its peak.
That has to be a nod to TTS but one with plausible deniability.
Imagine if they had sat down and painted a bunch of models and played Warhammer 40k against each other instead.
Bro just imagine both Horus and the emperor dissing each other's pathetic cards, and screaming DRAW every turn. Peak lore
God damn Erebus being the worst until the end.
I love him. He's like... a cartoon of villainy.
He killed Erda. He's the real hero of Warhammer 40k.
@@ShadyOakMinistries You make a good point actually.
He is destined to be the Chaos God of Shit-Housery.
The ghost of horus gonna shank him so hard
I love when the Emperor got beaten by Horus, he stood in front of his father and said
"Stand Proud, Father. You are Strong"
Then the Emperor stood, unleash his sanctic power and said
"Nah, I'd Win"
Peak fiction
Are you the Warhammer 40 000 because you are I am you, or are you the Horus Heresy because, Nah I'd win?
@@Stiftquadrat Lobotomy 40kaisen
✍✍✍✍🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
That didn't really happen at all though, Horus absolutely beat Emps and pretty much found out the secret that was underwriting the Emperor all along, he was never a proper god and really was just relying on a bunch of 'random bullshit go' plans all along that ultimately ended in one of the many plan D's that was him sitting on the golden throne forever whilst the galaxy burns in everlasting war.
Horus was destroyed, but the Emperor was revealed to be what he always said he was, absolutely not a god, capable of becoming one but never meant to be one
The two sat down and played a game of combat patrol, but Horus has the AdMech combat patrol while the emperor had the custodes. Horus never could've won
I think you forgot an important point. John and Oll didn't just appear. They brought the Knife to the Emperor, and that Knife was used to finally end Horus.
I prefer the 1990s style of presenting the ancient history of the Imperium as in-universe documents. When you have 30 years of canon to deal with it's very helpful to make all of the sources questionable, so that nothing breaks when for example you want to explore what happened in famous world-changing events.
GW has been downgrading its lore for years now to make the product popular with a certain political ideology in the USA since the people of that particular ideology hate any sort of stuff that could even remotely be interpreted as a critique of their ideology.
As a result, this removal of anything that looked like something political has opened the game to people of Fascistic ideology who can now enjoy the setting straight, instead of, having to ignore most of the setting except their Nazi-looking Astra Militarum.
@@nielsjensen4185 so do you also see the nazi when you cant open a jar?
@@nielsjensen4185 nice b8 m8
@@viktorgabriel2554 You say that in jest and the reality is that GW has slowly pruned the Grim out of the Dark since 4th ed.
I remember in 4th ed. there was a fluff section that was a report of the harvest from an aggri-world. It stated that some people doing the harvesting had died of starvation, on an aggri-world during harvest where food should be the most plentiful.
Things such as these are completely absent from the lore these days. In the old days, the IoM was presented as the least bad option, now the IoM is just a utilitarian faction that does the "tough BUT necessary."
People who have a Fascístic ideology love that shit as it confirms their own biases of what their ideal society would be like while the old presentation of the IoM was fully what their ideal society would be like.
By slowly removing all the stuff that presented the IoM as a society driven by Fascistic ideology no one should even conceptually try to emulate GW has enabled people of a Fascistic ideology to fully enjoy the hobby. GW has welcomed them unintentionally while saying that people of a Fascistic ideology are unwelcome in the hobby.
This creates a cognitive dissonance where people with a Fascistic ideology are told they're unwelcome yet everything shown practically welcomes them in by presenting the IoM as the defacto heroes while having the IoM run on Fascistic ideology.
In the old days, the organisation and the religion that made up the IoM would have "accidented" Guiliman since his ideology would be detrimental to the continued existence of the organisation they knew. It's inorganic that they all just accepted him when he's the stranger in a strange land.
@@nielsjensen41852000ad and rogue trader and the paranoia rpg (there was even a scenario in white dwarf where some troubleshooters accidentally ended up on a 40k battle field and had to fight there way out) all had the same dark humour reflection of the political landscape of the previous 50 years. Most of the good guys…really aren’t good. At best am unwilling cog in the machine. It was great. Now it seems gw at least is just a form of click-bait
Just got done with the book. Minor spoilers: it was a good wrap-up for the Siege of Terra. Overall, I'm happy with how things panned out. Yet GW needs to make a Great Scouring series. An epilogue is badly needed for the Horus Heresy.
They are doing this. It's heavily expected to be announced at the black library event next month I believe
yes more space marine books
The years post 30k should provide some great narratives for future model lines and expansions.
@@Fortunes.Fool. I want to see a revised war of the beast series as well as perhaps an age of apostasy anthology?
Can't wait for Horus Heresy 2: Warp Boogaloo
Auspex's matter-of-fact narration made the bit where they started playing cards in the middle of the battle into a glorious absurdist comedy 😂
Not just Auspex Tactics, but also Auspex Lore!
It's insane how powerful Horus is, like the book makes it quite clear that the Emperor is horrifically outmatched and only wins through increasingly desperate tricks and gambits. The raw power of chaos is genuinely scary.
Chaos-powered chest lasers
That’s always been the case in both Fantasy and 40K.
But the power was never Horus' to wield. He was just a puppet of the four gods and yes, their combined power is quiet scary.
IMO The Emperor being horrifically outmatched makes for much more interesting lore. Can’t wait to read this myself.
"Always has been..."
I really don’t care for space marine stuff, but I feel like they did Sanguinius dirty.
I also hate how soft everything else ended up being. Now Horus isn’t confirmed obliterated and the emperor is out in space. They purposefully left room to do Horus Heresy 2 if the sales start to slump. I really really hate that.
The Emperor could always return, he is a perpetual. However for Horus, yeah now that he is just dead rather than mega-dead it is a problem.
@@AAhmou Yes, he’s a perpetual, but he’d have to die/deactivate the throne and let humanity fall to Chaos to come back before. Now they can keep the throne and have him come back at the same time. That was my main thought.
I seriously doubt that will happen. Also the star child Emperor is literally one of the oldest bits of 40k lore
What were you expecting with Sanguinius? He had to die and die brutally. It’s central to his character
"Age of Heresy". With gibbed rules and all new model lines and only rules for six factions to begin with.
The Starchild stuff has been a thing for a long, long time.
Horus not being totally obliterated is likely just going to sit in their back pocket if and when GW gets desperate enough to do an end times 40K series
Kinda feels like Loken was done bad.
Not like "And for being the hero Loken's reward is dying for nothing" but more like "Oh and Loken dies too or something I guess"
Agree
He died so that the deamon that started the entire heresy can be born. That was the point of his death. Samas is the deamon that started everything.
@@alvinadorno6105 Yeah. We get it. But the way it happened is so boring and anticlimactic. That is what I'm annoyed by. It could have been a lot better easily.
@@amw5288 How about a 10 chapter long duel between him and Erebus on a lava planet, where they flip around on hover boards above lava rivers, climb buildings while fighting each other. And in the end!!! Erebus stabs Loken. Lol
@@greendalf123 Lol! You forgot the jump packs and stands :D
Just happy Ollanius Pius was in fact true and he did stand up to Horus to protect the Emperor
Except he wasnt.
It wasnt the unknown guardman, it was a crappy Perpetual self-insert-OC which means the entire scene meant nothing.
Same as the presence of the Dark King one.
@@ANDELE3025honestly, it makes more sense this way, the old lore always felt like a collection of loyalist stories, with legends always having a bit of truth to them
@@domotrizz5710 But it doesn't,
1. because its a perpetual -fueled clowncar segment 2. because as flawed as the BL books are, they at least set up fake Ollanius as the "for my people" guy.
The two factors make the impact of "humanity together standing and fighting as one no matter if superhuman or a common soldier" completely void and gone from it.
Hell just replace Dorns pointless presence on the ship (why the fuck would he leave or better yet Emp let him leave the siege itself when defense is his specialty) with a second squad of the guard lead by Alpharius (to mirror Leetu being with Persson), Alpharius fights off Erebus letting a handful escape, most die and the one side guy to be the one that intercepts a actual final blow.
Same thing with Horus being redeemed. It fundamentally fucks not just the lore, but the message of it.
But in the end it doesnt matter, Black library themselves claim everything and nothing from them is canon.
As such per game codex it canonically remains that wasn't a marine, it wasnt a perpetual, it wasnt a custodes, it wasnt a clown car configuration of the prior each time interrupting horus trying to get E to celebrate a chaos birthday on a plastic chair; it was in fact just a regular soldier that offered his life for humanity as a whole and the Emperor.
@@domotrizz5710 mby but it's way less cool. As a guard player i love the idea of old O.P. and its even a good methaphor that with all these super humans the only one who can save the Imperium are humans who live in it.
@@patrykpatoleta8156 oh dude trust me I’m a IG player too, but this feels more realistic imo, ppl have to remember that the old lore is the legend known in 40K, so it doesn’t mean that the IG don’t believe it or anything, I hope that makes it sound a bit better.
Frankly I’m pretty satisfied with this ending as it doesn’t change too much and it feels much more grounded
I find it truly fascinating that both the Emperor AND Horus were both given the chance to be the Dark King, but both refused, shunning the Chaos Gods and being true to themselves in the process. I really like it.
I never thought this could happen, but looks like there is a potential redemption arc that could happen. Previously never thought possible as old lord said that Emps obliterated Horus into non-canonicity and non-existence Now we find this isn’t the case…..
…. Wow, that would be the greatest middle finger to the chaos gods, more than any other redemption arc involving the fallen primarchs
@@JediLordWong Maybe at least some of the primarchs can be redeemed? The Emperor possessing Guilliman told Mortarion that he could still be redeemed at least.
@@khinzaw77 I've always thought Magnus was the most redeemable. Though Mortarion might be the most satisfying to see redeemed?
I don't understand the point of caring about the Primarchs. The Empire of Man already has more factions, characters, and units than all the rest of the setting put together. Redeeming the CSM isn't going to help with that, it will just make it worse.
@@alexlyster3459 me too, for me Magnus is the one most deserving of redemption, even though he did dig his own grave no matter how much people say ‘Magnus did no wrong’. In a way he is quite pitiable and even a Space Wolf player like me can sympathize even if I still want to break his back again. Then again, if I am not mistaken, the Emperor did offer him a chance to rejoin the fold back in the palace before the teleportation to Vengeful Spirit, but I think this chunk of Magnus is devoid of the good part that wants to do the right thing, so didn’t work out.
And I think by now, there is no good part of Magnus left, only the daemon of chicken we have now.
In all seriousness, everyone else should continue suffering in their own self made hells. I have almost no sympathy for Mortarion and Perturabo. Lorgar is the worst, I still have wet dreams of everyone stomping on him while asking him who is his daddy. Same with Fulgrim.
The fact that Horus basically realize the error of his way letting the emperor kill him at the last second isn't really a change since that was already how the story went, but I do hope the fact that they don't clearly mention his soul being totally wiped out doesn't mean they are setting up some lame plotline to revive him at some point.
I honestly dont mind that though 40k is more about grimdark so that probably wont happen
@@Ultrama-ri7pz I mean, not long ago the return of primarchs would have been unthinkable...
I for one am looking forward to my loyalist Lunar Wolves army in 40k with the 700 point Horus reborn centerpiece.
To be fair, Horus did come back to life just without his soul.
It appears they do, as the emperor says he'll wait for him?
Was Loken always there? Makes it interesting to see the Heresy start and end with him being there the day Horus slew the Emperor.
I mean, he was after all there when horus slew the emperor
Low key the protagonist
@@vector6006that was a joke between the legion though, wasn't it? When Horus killed that warlord pretending to be the Emperor?
I'm not sure if he was always on the ship? 🤔
It's cool, though.
Garvey...
And then in classic Erebus fashion. He comes to slay the fan-favorite characters.
Pretty terrifying to think the Emperor was on the brink of becoming a 5th chaos god
That position has always been held by Games Workshop.
The scalpers are contesting it though. 😅
The Emperor that supposedly burned Nurgle's Garden is a completely different Warp entity than the dead guy in the chair, created by humanity's belief in Big E and warped by their conflicting views on him. If he ever truly becomes part of the Big Four/Five, humanity is officially Eldar'd.
@@SarajevoKyoto Abaddon did take a trip there at some point before becoming the Warmaster of Chaos.
He is the Chaos God of Order. The Malal of the sci-fantasy setting GW cobbled together from Lord of the Rings, everything 2000AD did, and Dune.
Was? You mean is.
In regards to Samus, remember time flows differently in the warp. To us Slaanesh was made when the Eldar empire fell. To the Chaos Gods Slaanesh was and wasn't always there. It's constantly hammered into you in the End and the Death.
Loken becoming Samus or his death creating Samus makes some sense. Samus constantly says he is the man behind you. The feeling you get when you're alone in the dark of someone being there. I think this is due to all the betrayal Loken suffered, being literally and figuratively back stabbed which caused the most emotional agony for him. Even his former mournival brother Aximand heard the breathing of someone behind him, as though he was being stalked. Aximand was filled with regret for betraying his friends and in the end was killed by Loken.
God I want justice to reach that cockroach Erebus. Abaddon was really well done in the Siege series, especially his appearances in EATD. I like how there can be actual broterhood and peace even between chaos and loyalist marines, just depending on their former bond.
Can't wait to actually read the book and see for myself what else is going on.
That doesn’t make it any less lame that Samus couldn’t just be a random daemon and instead once again everything had to tie together. It makes the universe feel smaller. It’s the only thing these books are consistently good at.
Tf is EATD, it’s either TEATD or just EAD
@@ImrahilToChaos I disagree, I don't think it's a big deal, I think it's a proper grim-dark send off to one of the most beloved characters in the entire series, that his suffering caused the daemon which haunted him and his compatriots since before the heresy even began. Samus was pretty personal to the Sons of Horus and even their remembrancers.
Horus literally mentions like a dozen or more daemons attacking earth, some we know, some we don't.
And I mean the series as a whole added a fuck-ton of characters and explored basically every legion during the time.
The only way I see 40k getting smaller is modern 40k lore where the primarchs and heroes are everywhere and dueling every primarch and hero and not dying.
Not the Horus Heresy series at all, which ultimately is more personal.
I couldn’t care less because reading Samus’ monologue over and over and over was really good writing
@@alphaomega938 I finished part 1, Samus was only in the prologue, reading part 2 no Samus yet.
I like the Emperor's final words to Horus. It's sometimes hard to gauge what the Emperor's relationship was with his sons, but being that he's forgives Horus even though he pretty much almost ruined the Empire, the Emperor comes off as actually having love for his sons
a bit late for that considering that for the next 10000 years everything goes to hell and back and then to hell again and so on and so forth
@@everythingsalright1121 Yeah, wild how it's almost as if the Emperor always loved his sons. Yet every writer and their mother wants to present the Emperor as an asshole despite the fact that was NEVER the lore. Kinda turns the whole resulting thing from a tragedy to a farce.
@@ZeroNumerous well if he loved them then he sure had a funny way of showing it considering that him leaving the crusade to go back to terra and not telling anyone what hes working on is what caused the huge divide in the first place. then we get to guillaman talking to the emperor after he gets brought back and the emperor calls him a tool and his last hope. not exactly what he needed to hear considering guilliman isnt exactly optimistic about the imperium, since he himself basically says that horus shouldve killed them all instead of the imperium continuing to exist in horrible stagnation.
@@everythingsalright1121i personally feel that the writer of that one really wanted the emperor painted to be a self serving tyrant and had the perfect opportunity to do so, so they took it. Though i do also agree with alot of the fan base making the point that if he is to actually speak so harshly, it was because of how tormented and scattered he is sitting on the throne and people can be extra harsh when they are suffering even if what they say isnt how they actually feel
@@ZeroNumerousangron and konrad would like to have a word with you. Konrad clearly was off his rocker from day one yet Emps did nothing to help him. Angron just his story alone shows that emps didnt care about his sons other then seeing them as tools.
Also Magnus and to an extent Lorgar and those two really loved emps. But he had a odd way of showing it back He loved them so much that he didnt have one closer to him as he was the backup(magnus) and the other he wasnt more direct with(lorgar).
Oh then there is Perturabo for a guy who can read minds and "loves" his sons its odd how he didn't think to I dont know give the man-child who sucked in his emotions some recognition.
Wow Erebus really is trying his hardest to keep that most hated character in 40k title
His Cursed Technique: Strong Stab
Having Erabus kill the character from the first book is just... Amazing writing. Just the cherry on top to make him the actual worst
The Emperor emotionally manipulated Horus into abandoning Chaos and letting himself be killed. It appears ol' Neoth was a trickster god all along.
Emps giving Cegorach a run for his money
@@sunttu333 Brer Rabbit in his nettle patch approves.
@@TruculentSheep Anansi and Coyote approve from the shadows
WHVRC reference in public no damn way
I’m actually a big fan of how the fight went down. I like that the writers portrayed the emperor as a psyker who, despite his incredible power, can also fall to evil and become a threat to humanity that is far worse than the chaos gods. In that sense, I’m ok with the emperor fighting an uphill battle against Horus, it shows that he needed to hold back in order to preserve his humanity. I’ve always felt the emperor was a little too perfect, at least from the perspective of his power. Now we see that he was just an especially powerful psyker, equally susceptible to corruption, and his efforts against the chaos gods had not been epic warp battles like some of the old lore implied, but instead had been acts of subversion. I love it, much better writing in my eyes
And The Emperor would say "That's what I've kept telling you all! >XO"
The Emperor is famously tricky
You’re probably a big, big fan of blue hair too.
@@ArmorDoge what’s blue hair gotta do with it? I feel like this is referencing something but I don’t get it
@@streetroach727I’m assuming he is saying that because anyone who likes the universe being anything more than “big sad no happiness ever” is “woke”.
A few things:
We also kinda got to see how Perturabo ultimately fell to Chaos and ascended.
He wanted to become the ultimate weapon and the data had shown him how... the "data"... and there would be sacrifices to achieve it.
Also, Constantine really disappointed me I gotta say. For a guy who supposedly could give any of the Primarchs a run for their money I thought he got pushed around or out-smarted in every fight in these books.
I prefer to think he was such a problem to the Four they had to keep him busy with the biggest fight on the Spirit, unable to help the main players.
Sure but you had him checked by, what, a few Terminators?
Sanguinius was killing Titans for crying out loud and it has frequently been said Constantin could match the Primarchs.
He just really disappointed me.
Read Valdor, he didn't dissapoint there!
unfortunately, it seems as the Custodes suffer from the Wharf Effect.
Honestly, the most intruiging thing about the aftermath is that it means Basilio Fo was a founding member of the Inquistion.
shouldn’t it be Kryil sinnderman? Or malcador? Also when will Fo’s bio weapon be used? Was there any mentioned of a astartes purge with bio weapon in the old lore?
@@bufan7177 emphasis on a, not THE. He manages to clone Zaranchek Xanthus (one of Malcador's chosen) and upload a copy of his own mind into it before the original Fo dies. Then after Xanthus dies, Fo 2.0 takes his place.
Explains why the Inquisition is messed up
I know some people are knocking the tarot card thing. Originally I was going to say it was weird, but was--in a way--meant to portray the battle between the Big E and Horus/Chaos in a psychic battle so esoteric and strange that it's presented to mortal minds as tarot because we can't *process* such a high plane of psychic activity.
But then I wondered--what if that's "the great game" the Chaos gods play, and for a brief moment, as both sides were being pushed into becoming the 5th Chaos God, they ultimately were PLAYING the game the Dark Gods play?
I really like that
8:54 I can't believe they use Children's card game to decide the future of humanity, the absurdity!
Yeah. Should have been Magic the Gathering. However it does explain why the Tarot is so important.
Keeping it ‘hip’ for the younger crowd….. haha
In the end they did put the cards away to settle things with Ancient Egyptian Lazer Beams
Does that make Sanguineous the equivalent of Duke Devlin? He has the fan girls, the pretty hair, and gorgeous eyes...oh and a sweet ass.
At least it wasn't On Motorcycles.
I cried when Malcador decreed 'the Warhammer is real!' as he turned into dust
"The Onehammer is real!!!!!"
“MY NAME IS JIMMY SPACE!”
The emperor was playing a new Red/Green deck that day instead of his usual Blue deck.
Still needs work.
The emperor struck me as an Esper player suddenly playing a Boros deck and finding out just how bad the draw engine is.
Overexposing lore often makes a story worse and I feel the Horus Heresy quickly became a vessel for some authors' personal interests than painting a full picture.
Some of it is good, some of it is fine and some of it does not belong. At this point anyone who picks and chooses what lore they feel is right is entirely valid, there are several points that can be discarded without significantly changing anything (Erda and Astartes being prominent examples).
I agree, they are acting like George Lucas, wanting to go back and make edits. Just leave it, and focus on the current story! :D
Erda was such a mistake, took a complex arcane plot and... turned it into a spiteful moment that people can point at and mock the writers about.
Erda made no sense (overall arc) and the naming convention for astartes was so dumb they might as well grabbed a tank and hit us on the head with it
They had to insert wahmen of power into the story to "modernize" it. In prior books, astartes were commanders. Now, they all have frail human female strategists and fleet commanders
Agree. This type of lore was way more interesting to me when it was vague. Feels like a fucken anime now.
So Sanguinius dies without leaving a hole in Horus's armour. What a waste.
Makes me think that the old lore will now be considered a collection of stories known by loyalist astartes
But this, this is the truth, and sometime the truth is much more dark and sinister
not to mention he now gets strung up as a trophy.
He literally had Horus on his knees and inches from a killstroke. Read the books
@@domotrizz5710i hope they go down that route. The universe of 40k chugging along believing the old lore, while the readers know the truth.
No chink in the armour but Horus would have won if Sanguinius hadn't gone to fight him first. That was the gift of forsight. Sanguinius/Malcador/Oll truly the heroes of the Imperium.
The idea they left the door open for horus to come back is not a good one to me
horus resurrecting as loyalist vs abbadon
same. he is the one character that shouldn’t come back, alongside Big E. Neither should come back.
@@hurrsia And yet they set up for both to come back, Lol. I don't like it either.
I mean. Perty wants revenge. Let ol' Perty atleast have something for once.
But think of the profit!
I just wanna touch on the fact that Abaddon managed to slay several Custodes by himself, BEFORE he was Warmaster.
A feat previously only accomplished by Important Greater Daemons and a handful of Primarchs, one of which was Angron, who’s long been tied with Sanguinius as the canonical “best fighter Primarch”.
This means Abaddon was a fucking freak of nature on a level with the best of the Primarchs and named Custodes even BEFORE he gets his Chaos Powers, which in turn… ruins the whole thing about the Fourteen Black Crusades. He could easily have won the vast majority of those conflicts single handedly, given that maybe two of them involved any of the Primarchs(and he’d even gotten a rep for slaying those by then, too), meaning he had no equals in those fights.
Cadia shoulda fell ages ago.
Just like Alia, Leto's aunt, having a moment of clarity at the end and begging for death. GW just can't help themselves.
Someone having a near death change of heart doesn't belong to fucking Dune lol... go ask Boromir
I just want to make it clear: You walked into the franchise that has objectively ripped off dune DOZENS of times, spawned from the franchise that ripped off Tolkien hundreds of times, and you picked the one thing that is just a trope?
How do you miss THAT HARD. Like, this isn't the broad side of a barn. It's the broad side of a 10 story industrial meat farm with a target painted squarely on the side, and a bunch of flashing neon lights saying "aim here" and you somehow hit the small farm house down the street
So the soul fragment thing sounds pretty Star Child to me, which is interesting. And Horus not being completely obliterated, with those being the Emperor's final words to him... that's gotta be foreshadowing. Dan Abnett is setting something up here, for sure.
Reborn Emperor and Reborn Horus, lol.
Sure as sure
@@ItsKlawtasticRIP Brag 😢
I feel like the Starchild and Dark King concepts will be constantly teased but never acted on because either one would be way too big a shake up in 40K
im so Mad how they killed loekn like that
and in true GW fashion, Erebus kills a beloved and well developed character by stabbing them...
Really?
Such an epic hero, a veteran of countless battles who stood between his primarch and the emperor. Garviel Loken.
Killed by a classic case of shit Erebus writing
This is why Kharne is such a beloved character. He faced Erebus head on, and beat him into the ground.
classic Erebus behaviour, that's why I love him
I hoped for another erebus dick move 😂
Erebus is the personification of back stabbing my dude
Erebus is quite literally a bad writing escape route. If you don't know what to do with the character but want them to be gone just slap some Erebus backstabbing lol.
Nice lore break down.
Pretty important moment in the history. Seems like they've left a few doors open for new plot developments within the current setting.
"I wait for you ..." Is very intriguing.
Thank Auspex 💀
Yeah ngl, I don't like this compared to the original lore.
Could be said about the entirety of Horus Heresy series.
@povilzem the series started off really good, for the most part
Personally I dont even consider all of HH to be canon. Its mostly poor writing, with occasional glimpses of something neat. All of 40k has pretty much forgotten the "grimdark" and now its all about uberspecials DBZ-ing each-other and retconning everything into "Nooooo it was secretly 69D mega-chess and everyone was an ubermastermind who planned it forever"
@@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955 even Tzeench, the infinite plotter that knows all, was outsmarted (twice) by some meatbags with the power of friendship. like ok lol
@@Derek-b9f That aint even scratching the surface of how much of the original themes, lore and even just basic points of the setting have been completely annihilated
He uses the Athame, not the Anathama.The blade has been around since the first murder on Terra.
I think it’s telling that despite the community stating the emperor sees the primarchs as “tools”, when addressing the chaos gods, he asks “why his son is slain.” He could have easily disassociated at that point, but still calls Horus his son.
The thing is, he cast his fragment of his soul containing all his hope and humanity away into the stars.. the part of him that treated the primarchs as his sons, and yet he still coldly asked why his son is slain. The fact that even without his humanity he considered sanguinius his son kinda makes up for how shittily they retconned sanguinius' efforts against horus.
Some books have the emperor being kind and friendly to primarchs, like magnus skype calling the emperor, other have the emperor refer to the primarchs as tools , different writers take different styles.
So in the end they did play Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker
Oh the Samus thing is easy to explain: time goes wonky in the warp, and if Samus' existence is tied to Loken, conceptually he always existed at the same time Loken has existed. That does not make Samus a timetraveller or anything. Makes you wonder how many demons actually don't "exist yet" and could be purged for good once you figure out the event that creates them and the person they are connected to. If Erebus has that knowledge or a method to figure that out it puts him into the top 10 most powerful entities of the setting. We definetly have not seen the last of that fucker yet even in 40k.
I rlly love the part where the emporer does a backflip and points at Horus before saying, "I am the renegade raider you were just a default skin" before skibidiing away
My favourite part was when the Emprah said "It's Emprah's time" and Emprah'd Horus all the way through his plot armour.
I appreciate all the work you put into the visuals.
I love that they finally traveled the Emperor’s real name as Jimmy Space.
Abnet nailed it! Amazing ending, think he really did it justice and so kany interesting and new bits too. Gutted the series has come to and end, hope we get some of the scouring though.
It would be excellent to have a companion to the books that showed what each of the combatants rolled for their attacks and saves in the course of each battle.
In the books it says the emperor split off a part of himself one being his rational side and he cast his emotions and everything related to that into the warp. the books even say that the cast away fragment would grow over time.
im pretty sure that guilliman spoke with the emotionless husk on the throne and that the one who burned nurgle's garden was his "other half"
So I guess Sanguinius cracking his armor didn't really do much of anything.
That's really sad, that they made his sacrifice not the key to the Emperor's victory at all.
Actually no, because of his forsight Sanguinius knew that if the Emperor went to fight Horus before he did, the Emp would lose as Sang was fated to die by Horus' hand. So whilst there was no chink in the armour Sang still sacrificed himself for the chance of the Emperor winning.
Nope its stated early on in the heresy that the day the angel dies is the day the lupercal dies.
Horus had the ability to heal his body and armour infinitely. Poor Sanguinius stood zero chance and achieved nothing.
Wow, seriously epic stuff and thankfully, didn’t change TOO much from the established lore except for the last part regarding You Know Who the heresy is named for.
Surprisingly a bittersweet ending, but much less bitter than I thought. If that last moment was anything hopeful, the chaos gods might have another middle finger coming at them in the future. And oh what great irony that would be.
Don’t plan to collect the books, so thank you so much for the good summary. Thanks
What really happened is that horus showed up, they had a drinking contest for the galaxy.
Horus died of alcohol poisoning and the emporer has been trying to sleep off the hang over ever since.
in the instance of SAMUS, that was explained. Warp entities are separate from linear time. They come into existence, and they cease to exist. If all the ingredients are present in a timelime (horus falling to chaos, The emperor creating him, etc) and time has no hold on the WARP then to a daemon time is an ocean, not a river. it can come to be at any point in a linear timeline and its existence can manifest whenever it wants to, or NEEDS to in order to complete its role in the schemes of the Chaos Gods. Loken's role is to maintain his honor/loyalty, maintain his worth to what the lunar Wolves were, and determined worthy enough to banish Samus in order to be a worthy sacrifice to create Samus. Ultimately, loken is the lamb that must be sacrificed for the heresy to have ever occurred in the first place.
Wait. THEY PLAYED MAGIC THE GATHERING AGAINST EACH OTHET?!
This book does answer one more question, we now know what the Terminus Sanction is, it's Fo's weapon, and the complete annihilation of all Space Marines and Primarchs, apparently specific enough and powerful enough to destroy even the Daemon Primarchs.
I keep expecting this man to explain to me the Emperor's stats and his tabletop pros and cons.
So Horus is definitely returning too lol
thats what i thought lol
It's now extremely possible that the King in Yellow, the as-of-yet unidentified puppetmaster in the Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and Bequin novels could be Horus, in addition to the other possible candidates (Valdor, Lorgar, Dorn one of the lost Primarchs).
Horus: "I'm back and Dad forgave me!."
Roboute: "I want to go back to bed..."
@@TitaniumDragoonNeoits literally stated his name is Constantin Valdor. And his chapter name is pandemonium which is the next king in yellow book. You just reaching.
£££ more money for GW
writing good endings is tricky
I think it was good, ppl in general always have issues with endings
@Mazz38Yep but i think the Horus vs emperor was good.
@Mazz38 missing Primarchs are coming. Will take another 29 years but they're on their way.
So a Death at the End of The End and The Death created Samus, and Samus means The End and The Death
Dan Abnett why did you have to kill your best character for a pun
he has lost his touch
From the moment a demon is created it exists both forward and backward in time. That is why the emperors sword is such a huge deal. It can kill a demon, a true death. Once killed a demon is erased in the past, present, and future. I wonder what someone like guilliman will do with that sword when he realizes what is in his power. If he tracks down the daemons that communed with erebus he can potentially change the heresy, maybe even avert it. He could easily make things worse too. I can see them resetting 40k with that sword.
The Warmaster smiles softly then dies. Thats hilarious.
I really do feel like they could have both talked it out over a hot cup of recaff…
GW needs to finalize the differences between a God and a Chaos God. Apparently all gods are Chaos Gods now? I thought a God was an entity singled out by mortals for worship while a Chaos God was like a natural disaster in the Warp, created on accident by a surplus of unrestricted emotions. I actually don't think modern GW thought it through at all.
It wouldn't be unheard of, I mean they retconned major details of the indomitus crusade not too long after initially releasing it
There are only two kind of gods in the 40k universe, the gods of the material ( aka the c'tan) and gods of the warp. Any god that doesn't exist in the material / real world ( of 40k) is a god of the warp and technically a form of chaos god, just not the big 4. Mortal races can make there own gods via there belief, but there still gods of the warp since that's where they form from that belief. So far the ctan have been the only know gods of the material world in 40k... and well those have mostly all been captured like Pokémon. Is this a retcon? no idea, but its been like this since i joined the hobby back in like 2012
@@sirpieman300 You're correct. Aside from the C'tan who were introduced more recently (relatively speaking), this has all been long established lore.
@@sirpieman300 only definition that makes sense. If you keep in Mind that in the beginning the Warp was called the Realm of Souls and not inherently Evil.
Khaine, Gork and Mork are not evil by their races definition.
Khaine, Isha, Greater Good, Gork and Mork, (post-heresy) Emperor - they're all gods, but there's only 4 *chaos* gods. A chaos god is just a god that's aligned with the 8-arrowed star crew. Simple as. Because in fantasy, the Great Horned Rat is considered a chaos god too, just because the other 4 (well, 3) consider him one.
Horus
"Draw your last pathetic card so i can end this, Emperor"
Emperor
"Sanguinius's deck has no pathetic cards Horus, but it does contain the unstoppable Exodia"
Small point but Basilio Fo didn’t die. At the very end we see that he disguised himself as Xanthus (?), the Chosen who he killed, and that he sneaked off with a load of Malcador’s notes.
I can't believe that they made the card game episodes from TTS canon.
I liked when he swung, then Horus said “yeah but did it hit me?” And then the Emp said….”yup” and then Horus said “yeah but did it wound me?” And Emp was all like “uh, yup!” And then Horus was all like “nope, didn’t go past the armour!” And then Emp was all like “Kk, your turn.”
I really like the part where Horus said “It’s Horusing Time” before Horusing all over the Imperium.
you've hor'd your last us, warmaster
@@devilpistons1269it’s “you Horus your last Heresy Warmaster”
I also like the part where Erebus said “We do a a little trolling”
Can’t believe the emperor turned to Horus after being struck down and said “Horus Lupercal you truly are the Horus heresy”
Ah yes, a retcon so they can make horus a mini in 40k
Fo survived. Cypher was slain. Strange omission
Regarding Samus: That's not unheard of in the setting. Slaanesh had a very specific point of birth but is often talked about as having always existed as well.
Yes, it's pretty established that linear time doesn't exactly work in the warp and daemons essentially exist outside of such definitions often appearing before the specific material event that birthed them. If anything, the great powerful betrayal that created Samus isn't even between Loken and Erebus, it's a ruthless betrayal to the reader who convinced themselves of some grander climax to Loken's story despite the writing being on the wall from the get go. And that would be entirely up Abnett's alley as he clearly likes getting metaphysical & medium bending, with Samus more or less being powered by memes in the Dawkins sense of the word- extending that to the readers themselves sounds like his jam.
This is your captain speaking on your flight tonight. We are expecting mild turbulence on takeoff, but mild weather and smooth flying for the rest of the flight. Please keep all arms and legs within the aircraft at all times and enjoy your flight.
How tf did you get through it soo fast man?! I bought it at 13:00 UK time and only on page 300!! This guy is a machine
Reddit spoilers
AIs scrub data rather than reading traditionally 😂
Tbf there are techniques to skim-read. And you can just skip all the chapters that aren’t about him so I guess that way it’s very doable.
@@rudolfnv6666 or... Someone that has all information almost as soon as GW publishes them, and puts out multiple edited videos analysing them daily is more machine than human. AI or at least a cyborg. 😅
@@JamesSerapio I think it'd be very fitting if he was a necron. Would fit right in with Trazyn and company.
Makes me wonder if the goal of the heresy, from a chaos perspective, was to birth a fifth god, out of either Horus or the Emperor by forcing him to take on dark warp powers to overcome the threat.
I think the emperor is functionally dead, the body on the throne is just echoing his last will to keep terra safe. However, that shard of the emperor that he broke off is something different, 10,000 years of human worship and empowerment have made it quite different to the more limited, more human emperor at the time of the heresy.
Perhaps chaos did succeed in birthing a fifth god, but not quite to plan...
2 likely scenarios
1.) The most likely, the Star Child becomes basically Sigmar in 40K a Deity completely Anathema to Chaos but not as OP as them but Can Reasonably Beat them.
2.) Bummer version it just becomes the Dark King, but that a bit more unlikely as if it than the backlash would be much worse than the End Times in Fantasy
I started another Master's degree as the series got started so I haven't had time to read it. This ending was foreshadowed in "Fulgrim" when Horus saw what Fulgrim had become and wondered what he'd gotten himself into. I thought Horus might have second thoughts in the final battle but I didn't foresee the Emperor being tempted by Chaos. Neat!
The whole Horus Heresy book series is such a shitshow. Unnecessary plot twists, the whole perpetual thing, Primarchs acting like children, clear pandering for certain legions and characters from authors. They didn't even tried make a coherent thing out of this.
Nooooo i really had hoped Loken would survibe the whole thing. And the one to do him in was bloody Erebus? Aaagh
If you look at all the key points from the old fight, they are still all present in the new one, just sightly changed details.
The emperor and horus srill fight on a scale that defeys reality.
The emperor still holds love for his son.
The emperor still holds back, just rather than out of love for Horus its our of lover foe humanity as if he used his full power he would destroy horus and be reborn as a warp god dooming humanity.
Someone still steps between the emperor and hours and horus strikes them down, just noe they have combined all three previous mentions wirh a guardsman, a space marine and a cuatodes doing it.
Horus still realises how fsr he's fallen and regrets it before his death, and the emperor srill channels all his power to obliterate Horus.
Appreciate the lore coverage!
There is something melancholic about how Dan Abnett wrote the first and the past book
Thank you for this video.
Many of the old Visions of Heresy books had Horus realise what he has done and ask the Emperor to strike him down, so the only "new" lore regarding his death is the Anathema blade. It makes sense, tho, as the Emperor was not powerful enough to strike him down at that point.
and then... the scouring. chase the traitors to the eye of terror!
The scariest part of this video is AT’s pronunciation of Loken.
And that part of the Emperor's soul went onto become Sly Marbo, and still is to this day. Mostly because even the Emps likes having a bit of fun as a human from time to time (read fun as !!fun!!)
That's the only way to read and write !!FUN!! . I mean 40k is one of the few settings were this is the correct definition of !!FUN!! .. Failure, Struggle and Clowncarts included.
12:32 It was said originally that Horus had Chaos influence driven out of him and he begged the Emperor to kill him before they could take him again. It's not EXACTLY what happened here from your description (with Horus rejecting them outright) but I like it, it gives him more agency without actually changing the events.
God Erebus sucks, just stabbing Loken in the back.
He stabbed Erda in the front. That makes up for everything.
I have a couple of questions if anyone has read it. Does anyone (originally the Emperor I think? Or was it a Primarch?) still declair "Hail Malcador, Hero of the Imperium" before he is removed to make way for the Emps? And are their still people in the Palace after his interment that know the Throne is a slowly decaying machine?
The mental image of the Custodes, peerless warriors of unbreakable mental fortitude, weeping is quite moving.
The part I liked the most was when the emperors and horus’ fight was so fierce that it took them across dimensions until they arrived in the world where every conflict is solved by playing card games, so horus pulled out his deck and was like “it’s time to du-du-du-du-duell” and the Emperor was just fine with it so he halted his attack to play a round of Tarot.