I may be late to stumble on to this podcast, but regardless, Ethiopians should be proud of his linguistic and liturgical knowledge. He can proficiently and truthfully communicate and defend his Ethiopian heritage. Kudos to himself and his parents.
Thank you for this. A lot of people assume that the Ethiopian Church just borrow all their theology and tradtion from us Copts, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a beautiful ancient tradition on its own
What a beautiful video 🙏 First to our beloved Orthodox brother Craig Truglia by His holy grace may our Lord and God Jesus Christ bless you for being a voice for Orthodoxy and being a voice for the many voiceless at the moment and asking very important vital questions(I sometimes feel like you're reading my mind) Deacon Henok እግዚአብሔር ይባርክህ ውዱ ወንድማችን እግዚአብሔር ያክብርልን for an honest representation of the current state of the church and it's history I was just amazed for your theological knowledge at a young age(መታደል ነው),I guess you won't see my comment but I want to say I appreciate this beautiful video very much as an up and coming theologian myself this is a very helpful video May God bless you both 🙏 በስመ አብ ወወልድ ወመንፈስ ቅዱስ አሐዱ አምላክ አሜን ✝️🙏❤️🛐
As an immigrant im feeling trapped and out of place in this land and i couldnt find spirituality in my daily life. Henok is true inspiration, even far from home it shows god is with us.
Very interesting conversation. I hope you invite Henok on your podcast more frequently for more insightful conversations like this. It was such a fruitful discussion that could of lasted for hours on end. Great job!!!
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology Hello Craig. Recently I watched a Jonathan Pageau video about Ethiopia at the end of which, Jonathan asked if there was anyone who would be willing to talk about the Ethiopian Church. This video and others came to mind. Thought you'd like to know that. ua-cam.com/video/ynovna2c9r8/v-deo.html
@@PhilosophyofArtandScience St John of Damascus is a bigger surprise to me. The Ethiopians are probably the only local church which would have no issue with accepting a foreign body into their own communion as they would have the elasticity with their canonizations to accept "competing" saints. Whenever I speak with other OOs I feel that ultimately a union, even with Christological concessions on one side or the other (let's just pretend it's on the EO side) would not work simply because the EO could not accept Severus and the OO could not accept Hormisdas, and men like that. The Ethiopians, without being modernists like the RCs (which now accept the canonizations of men they've condemned), would probably be able to accept other local canonizations, likely treating them as local. But I am guessing here, certainly an interesting topic to discuss in the future.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology I think Henok had a good example of Sts. John Chrysostom and Cyril. Not only did they not like each other, but Cyril supported the excommunication and condemnation of Chrysostom, even towards the end of Cyril’s life. He defended his uncle’s condemnation of Chrysostom even when he lifted Chrysostom’s anathema. This is an example of lifting anathemas even when you may agree with the anathema given at the time. Future generations may end up venerating both, but you don’t have to, which is probably why in Ethiopia it’s complex and no straightforward answer is given. What matters is that if the faith is the same, or there is spiritual benefit from the person you receive (like Isaac the Syrian and John Saba), then lifting anathema is not such a difficult thing except when it’s connected with pride. Objectively, the issue of Chalcedon can be resolved, but 1500 years of at times violent separation and pride will be difficult to overcome. Perhaps another 1500 years will be needed to heal the same wounds.
Yes why? Deacon Henok Elias here just said all the things that's on all our minds and cleared up so many things without the fear of being call a "menafek" there's no need for inviting Dr Zebene because we all know what he's going to say out of fear or just lack of knowledge.
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church firmly believes and teaches that our holy mother was concieved immaculately and protected by the holy spirit since her mother's womb. Even each praise stated by Arch Angel Gabriel during the annunciation were stated in the past tense not in present or future tense meaning GOD kept our holy mother from original sin to bear the incarnated logos. As an Orthodox church we don't systematically theologize instead we mystically interperate biblical issues and one of the major issue that affect Christology is the teaching of mariology and Deacon Henok doesn't fully explain the position of our church in mariology. He doesn't even quote mostly repeated and known biblical verses that explain the immaculate conception of our lady mary. Finally One thing most eastern Orthodox church misunderstood is that they believe doctrine of immaculate conception was formulated recently in 18th by Roman Catholics but this issue was hotly debated from 4th century and church fathers have their say on it which is parallel to the concept of the immaculate conception. Please dn Henok ask Megabi Hadis Rodas the most notable exegesist in Ethiopia who wrote two high volume book related with mariology. Thamk you!
Hey what good info. Where can I go to get solid info on the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and their history? Also how does Melchizedek relate to the church? Thanks
This’s actually a debated topic amongst the Ethiopian Orthodox Church scholars. The popular opinion within the church is as you stated. However, many ancient Ethiopian Orthodox texts suggest otherwise and an argument can be made against the doctrine of immaculate conception of Virgin Mary. So it’s not conclusive as you have suggested. As an Ethiopian Orthodox believer, I think it’s best we don’t steer away from the universal Orthodox Church teachings by formulating new doctrines which are rejected by both the Oriental and Easter Orthodox sister churches.
I am a Protestant who leans towards orthodoxy but I believe in the immaculate conception. Mary can be seen as sinless in both Orthodox and Catholic traditions so I don’t see why a fuss over the “when”. She is the Ark fashioned by God. She still chose to follow God
Both agree that Mary was sinless, its just that Rome believes that Mary was conceived without original sin, based on an Augustinian presupposition about what original sin entails.
@@NeoNoir_94 yes. This is where both groups kind of lose me though I am more along the lines of what the Orthodox churches teach. I think there has been way way too much "theologizing" and picking hairs regarding a lot of this. Rome clearly has an older brother complex and HAS to detail, catalogue, and explain everything. It is just a lot easier for me as a regular Christian dude to say: "If the early church believed Her to be EVER VIRGIN and Sinless, than that is what I believe too."
@@brotherbroseph1416 she is the new Eve. Eve was made perfect and chose to sin. Mary being the fulfillment of her, although born with ancestral sin(being the consequences of adams sin(death, and a proclivity to sin: which means in Greek to literally shoot an arrow and miss the mark, not breaking some law)) She chose not to sin. So Mary is the fulfillment of the nation of Israel and the Law and a type of the ark of the Covenant. But she was created like every woman. This means she is the archetype of what all people can be.
Along with other issues of internal disagreement, the Tewahedo Beta Kristian needs to come to terms with the significance and legacy of Emperor Haile Selassie 1 who presided over the independence of the Ethiopian church from the Coptic church of Alexandria and over the changing the name of the nation from Abyssinia to Ethiopia.
@@fiyahan Yes , they will not be a strong healthy body until they acknowledge and give praises to the King of Kings, Conquering Lion of Judah, Emperor Haile Selassie 1.
We love our emperor, what's the problem? His title is defender of the faith and that's in ALL the Oriental Orthodox churches. What more could anyone want?
@@zyaicob I am saying that He should be recognized as a Saint at the very least. Without Him Ethiopia most likely would have had decades of being colonized, with the Roman Catholic church being dominant and would still be known as Abyssinia, which is not its biblical name.
@@thenowchurch6419 that would be nice but it's not exactly necessary and it would be extremely bad faith to hold the fact that he isn't a saint AGAINST the church in any way. He never would have
21:00 - 23:25 illustrares my honest view of the mentality of Tewhado scolars. No matter what type of criticism, concern or reservation one might have about the tewhado church it is viewed with suspicion and instant dismissal.
May be or may not be. I think the most important thing is to first know the church well before criticism. I personally see many outsiders speaking negatively about the church are too shallow. Or at least they are just generalizing.
Yup ! That’s what make the Tewahedo Bete-christian different , the one and only true bete-Christian , that I wish would stop using the word “orthodox” coz we have never been called “orthodox” until the 20th century .
@@SeekTheCross Ezekiel is an odd place to start your search for Mariology. The obvious places to start would be the Gospel of Luke, the Proto-Evangelium in Genesis, and the book of Revelation. I'm Orthodox, but I would point you to Roman Catholic Brant Pitre's "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary: Unveiling the Mother of the Messiah" as your guide to Mariology in the Bible.
@@anc01901 no thanks, I rather keep it biblical. I don't want to go beyond what is written in the Scriptures. It's not essential for salvation neither is it taught by Jesus or the Apostles. I believe Mary was a virgin, but after she gave birth to Jesus biologically she was no longer a virgin and also married to Joseph and the Bible states they had children both male and female but the Roman Catholics apologetics completely butcher those Scriptures to say things it doesn't say. By now I only trust the Bible and some of the church fathers, not to mention Mariolatry came into existence after the year 300. I just stick to praying to God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I agree,yet I really appreciate his effort.I recommend to every one who can read Amharic to read a book written by Debtera Be aman Netsere (በአማን ነጸረ/ደብተራ/) entitled ወልታ ጽድቅ (Welta Tsedeq) to capture the teachings of our Holy Etyopian Orthodox Tewahido Church regarding The original sin.
The Ethiopian church believes the blessed Virgin Mary to be conceived without sin , completely so less, but we believe she died, resurrected and ascended to heaven. We believe anyone who claimed her not to have been born sinless as a heretic!!! However the clergy has become political than standing for God’s truth and still claims to have unity with oriental churches that recently claimed that the blessed Mother is not free of original sin.The great fall away indeed is here and the Tewahedo church is the only one standing
@@BeKemeFeqaduso are you going to anathematize both Alexandria and Antioch because we dont believe in the immaculate conception. We believe in dispassionate conception but not immaculate conception. Immaculate conception stems from Augustinian thought, which, to my understanding was completely absent from Abyssinia until Portuguese missionaries set foot in Abyssinia.
#Craig_Truglia: here are three points (a I am Theology Student in Tewahedo Church) 1. dcn Henok is wrong @ 41:00. the official position is determined by the council of scholars of the Church and the synod. and regarding Immaculate Conception, the Church #official position is that Immaculate Conception is not only a belief but it is a Doctrine in the Church. yes there are few monks against it but that has nothing to do with the Church's official position. to prove this the easiest way is to ask any one from the council of scholar of the church or to ask the Holy Synod on the stance of the Church regarding the Immaculate Conception. they actually released a video to clarify the stance. the 5th Patriarch Abuna Pawulos do implicitly mentioned Mary may not be conceived Immaculately on his PhD dissertation but is has no acceptance or doesn't reflect the position of the Church in any way. (by the way many church members and scholars do reject their Patriarchy because since they are promoted as patriarch while the 4th Patriarch is Alive.) 2. dcn Henok said "the is no writing in the Church that is pro Immaculate conception until like 700 years ago", this is completely wrong there are bunch of writings by Ethiopian highly venerated scholar, even in the Axumite period, St. Yared can easily be one of them who wrote about BVM as She is free from any Curse, stain, consequence etc of any kind. 3. dcn Henok said "the older you go in our church the emphasis is on the annunciation." that is completely wrong. you can not mention any thing evidential to illustrate that. in contrary you will find that Her immaculateness do not starts at the conception but when she was though in Mind of God.
You are saying this. He is saying that. In between we are un confusion. Anyways, I would rather choose to focus on cleanse from my sin rather than theologizing myself about this very complex issues.
@@Ortho_1_Christ The holly Synod (the Highest Theological Binding Decision Making Body) already released documents professing Immaculate Conception. so the bias is over
@@The_AgentSmith Okay, I heard you. But for me this kind of complex theology is out of my pay raise. I better focus on how to cleanse my sins. Thanks for your info anyways.
It is nonsense to dispute the legitimacy of Abune Paulos' patriarchy by appealing to the authority of Abune Merkorios, may their blessings be upon us. Abune Mathias and Abune Merkorios served together as patriarchs, we reconciled the issue, there were violations of canon law but we reached reconciliation.
Great show, however in my experience the Tewhado church has stated eating pork is a sin. They were unambiguous about it. However I understand the deacons clarification on authority.
I've also been told unambiguously that they teach the Immaculate Conception, but Henok has clarified things. Also, as he pointed out, there is a difference between popular and hierarchical beliefs, and the hierarchy is not strictly synodical due to the religious import of the monarchy. As I suspected, the Ethiopian paradigm does not neatly fit into other systems and one sort of needs to be immersed in it to get it and to understand its inconsistencies (and whether these inconsistencies are epistemically an issue). It appears to me the Ethiopians do not concern themselves with reconciling competing views, but merely pass them on and preserve them. The Scriptures are similar in this regard as are modern Roman Catholics. The Eastern Orthodox are much more strictly harmonizers.
Henok is a great guest thanks for the interview. I respect the treasure which is the Tewahedo heritage but they, like the Copts and Armenians, seem unresolved when it comes to many important details and do not have a very consistent confession.
it is a different focus! theology, as most understand the word, is an extention of greek, latin, and anglo-saxon thought. homiletics are the embodiment of semitic thought, which is to say praxis, found in hebrew, syriac / aramaic, amharic, and ge'ez.
@Eremias Ranwolf except in Roman Catholicism we see contradictory creeds and Liturgies in different sects. Some venerating saints that the Vatican has deemed heretics. Now we have the papal church saying that EO have the real presence of Christ in legitimate sacraments but that we still need communion with the pope. This is absolute lunacy and not the religion of Catholics a century ago let alone 2000 years ago. In Orthodoxy we do not see this bizarre world of contradictions and optional schools of theology there is a miraculously simply and consistently confessed faith in the mouths of the Saints century after century unchanging. So yes the RC make the same argument in theory but it is hypocritical and discrediting to their own position in reality.
The only thing I don’t understand with him is he tried to emphasize so much about Axum which is not really that much recognized among Ethiopians for orthodox religions. Except for a couple of churches that’s the regime roots which came out openly saying we broke the back of the Orthodox Church even during the war because of their hate for Amharas they deducted inside the Orthodox Church by slaughtering animals and using it as their cleaning area. I never grow up hearing Axum was a place for orthodox religions never but of course laibela Gonder and Showa…etc. is the roots. People still hold regardless of the continuing attack of the church and the followers because the new regime want to replace it with Protestant washed religion which most of the poor became brain washed seeking economic help;( it’s tragic what’s going on in Ethiopia the past 40 years. Both the Arabs and the west want to destroy the country by destroying the Orthodox Church that’s holding it together by the threads today. More prayers to Ethiopia!🙏🏼🎄🕯️
It’s unfortunate and to give the respect to the pops during the last 37 years in Ethiopia. They’re politically appointed rather than the true religious and traditional way of becoming a pop based on your merits. Their intentions were by collaborating the outside enemies to destroy the fundamental to Ethiopian unity and to the nation of Ethiopia. Both Derg the communist regime and TPLF now the Oromo’s dominant regime are anti orthodox religions and the church.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not adhere to the belief in the Immaculate Conception of Saint Mary. While some may liken it to this doctrine due to our profound reverence for her, the Church asserts that there is no concept of original sin in our belief system. Therefore, we affirm that Saint Mary remained sinless, but we do not subscribe to the notion of her immaculate conception.
That is incorrect we do hold to the immaculate conception. It was agreed in the April 28th 2017 Ecumenical Council Meeting in Cairo Egypt. Also there are older writings from 550 AD: It is all over our Saint Yared and Aba Giyorgis writings. Please stop spreading misinformation!!
If Mary didn't have Original Sin, then she didn't resist sin, and therefore her position as the New Eve, the Perfected Eve, makes no sense. The RC dogma on this causes all kinds of problematic ripples through their theology. A good example of the importance of right doctrine.
The behavior of God/Christ is perfectly sinless. So, How could he drive a flesh from her. God keep her perfect in order to share her soul and flesh. Unless, we will say he drive sinful flesh from her? It doesn't make any sence. Dave says, God keep his dwell pure.
@@gusv2047 yes she has sinful human nature. she is also drive her soul and flesh from human nature. she is human being. But God keeps her pure and perfect.
@@unitedafrica6788 I'm not well read on this subject but I suppose there is room for private opinion on the matter... did our Lord have a fallen human nature? Yes and no, perhaps -compared with the body of Adam in Eden. Most Catholics only mean our Lady is free of any guilt of sin. I recall St. David speaking about being conceived in sin and not being free from sin for one day. Even saying "fallen nature" is highly ambiguous, but I appreciate the reply. A common argument against the Immaculate Conception is that our Lady is believed to have died, as Christ. That is a consequence of Original Sin but our Lady was not guilty of Original Sin because she is all pure. So she fulfilled the 1st Commandment as far a humanly possible for an Infant and even Fetus; whereas until we are baptised we are, "children of wrath." We are selfish children, she never was selfish for a day. I hope that helps. Thank you. Let me know if that makes sense to you
I think St John of Damascus (yohannes ze demasko) is for the very list recognized as St in the church if not canonized. I might be wrong but I have for sure heard a few sermons where this st is quoted or referred to. ua-cam.com/video/6PDTxhbECp0/v-deo.html is one example for those who can understand amharic. Although I don't seem to understand his position in regards to miaphysite vs dyophysite on "the exact exposition of the orthodox faith", It's undeniable that his works on other subjects such as his difence of icnography is a great use for the church.
thank you, that link is helpful. Btw... re: Qidus Yohannes Ze Demasko, I am guessig he would have been miaphysite ? (As the Syriac Orthodox are in the Oriental tradition...)
This was based on the language group used in church service and has nothing to do with race. The church service is done using Ge'ez language which is classified as southern semitic language which is afroasiatic language group.
I'm crying cause no one can talk about the truth that Eritrean orthodox monastery and Tigray too. History was stolen. Praying truth will come out one day.
Mary was a Jewish girl who worked at the temple and met Joseph also a Jew who got her pregnant out of wedlock and had to marry her as her situation would have resulted in both being killed or driven out of the village for good. So am always amazed at Christians claiming her to be a Christian icon including Jesus who was a Jew.
Sorry but Ethiopian history is mostly fiction. The reason why people have a hard time finding anything pre-1200 AD is because Axum was sacked and destroyed by the pagan ancestors of Amhara (Agaw). Any pre-1200 history is hidden in Eritrea - the land of the real Ge'ez people, the Agaazi. If you want the truth, then you'll have to accept the following point: 1- Ethiopia is Sudan, present day Ethiopia stole the name to solidify its monarchs. 2- Amharas are Cushites not Semites. They are primarily Agaws and invented Amharic in the middle ages to semiticise themselves. Amharic is an invented language and has no semitic roots. 3- Everything pre-1200 AD is Eritrean history, tradition and language. The only region in Ethiopia to preserve some Eritrean characteristics is Tigray, at that, only the border areas i.e Axum, Yeha and Gulo Makeda.
@@teages there are DNA tests that prove we are semantic, and linguistics cant just be invented lmao it seems you have some unresolved hate for amharas like every other ethnic tribe in Ethiopia, Oromos, Tigrays. the anti-Amhara philosophy is evident and hate is really not a good look well have a great day!.
@@mnzdeep4258 I have nothing against 'amharas', 'amharas' do - Ethiopia's biggest issue is that all ethnicities, including amharas, hate they true selves. They all turned into culture vultures. My advice to you and your compatriots is to make peace with your real identity and history. Embrace yourselves, don't try to become someone else.
![Aksum Los Angeles and Wherever it is Heard [The Mouseion 008 Henok Elias]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aGHlFPDz2Is/mqdefault.jpg)
![Aksum Los Angeles and Wherever it is Heard [The Mouseion 008 Henok Elias]](/img/tr.png)
ዲያቆን ሄኖክ እና Caraig የቅድስት ድንግል ማርያም ልጅ ኢየሱስ ይባርካቹ❤
I may be late to stumble on to this podcast, but regardless, Ethiopians should be proud of his linguistic and liturgical knowledge.
He can proficiently and truthfully communicate and defend his Ethiopian heritage. Kudos to himself and his parents.
Thank you for this. A lot of people assume that the Ethiopian Church just borrow all their theology and tradtion from us Copts, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a beautiful ancient tradition on its own
amen. thanks for watching.
It's so refreshing to hear a Copt say that🥹
ተባረክ❤
What a beautiful video 🙏
First to our beloved Orthodox brother Craig Truglia by His holy grace may our Lord and God Jesus Christ bless you for being a voice for Orthodoxy and being a voice for the many voiceless at the moment and asking very important vital questions(I sometimes feel like you're reading my mind)
Deacon Henok እግዚአብሔር ይባርክህ ውዱ ወንድማችን እግዚአብሔር ያክብርልን for an honest representation of the current state of the church and it's history I was just amazed for your theological knowledge at a young age(መታደል ነው),I guess you won't see my comment but I want to say I appreciate this beautiful video very much as an up and coming theologian myself this is a very helpful video
May God bless you both 🙏
በስመ አብ ወወልድ ወመንፈስ ቅዱስ አሐዱ አምላክ አሜን ✝️🙏❤️🛐
As an immigrant im feeling trapped and out of place in this land and i couldnt find spirituality in my daily life. Henok is true inspiration, even far from home it shows god is with us.
God bless the Ethiopian Church
@30:55 That's Eastern Orthodox thinking too! Man, I pray unity will come soon!!!
God willing! It will in this life or the next
Very interesting conversation. I hope you invite Henok on your podcast more frequently for more insightful conversations like this. It was such a fruitful discussion that could of lasted for hours on end. Great job!!!
Could've, but Henok had to go, I felt bad, I hope he wasn't late for dinner LOL
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology Hello Craig. Recently I watched a Jonathan Pageau video about Ethiopia at the end of which, Jonathan asked if there was anyone who would be willing to talk about the Ethiopian Church. This video and others came to mind. Thought you'd like to know that.
ua-cam.com/video/ynovna2c9r8/v-deo.html
God bless you Craig. From an OO Christian
Great talk as usual craig!
Dcn HENOCK thank you for giving a greater perspectives.
Didnt know Ethiopians were fans of St John Chrysosthom :)
The oriental church loves st John in general
absolutely! afeqwerq is goldenmouth in amharic and it is a common name in amharic and tigrinya.
@@PhilosophyofArtandScience St John of Damascus is a bigger surprise to me. The Ethiopians are probably the only local church which would have no issue with accepting a foreign body into their own communion as they would have the elasticity with their canonizations to accept "competing" saints. Whenever I speak with other OOs I feel that ultimately a union, even with Christological concessions on one side or the other (let's just pretend it's on the EO side) would not work simply because the EO could not accept Severus and the OO could not accept Hormisdas, and men like that. The Ethiopians, without being modernists like the RCs (which now accept the canonizations of men they've condemned), would probably be able to accept other local canonizations, likely treating them as local. But I am guessing here, certainly an interesting topic to discuss in the future.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology I think Henok had a good example of Sts. John Chrysostom and Cyril. Not only did they not like each other, but Cyril supported the excommunication and condemnation of Chrysostom, even towards the end of Cyril’s life. He defended his uncle’s condemnation of Chrysostom even when he lifted Chrysostom’s anathema. This is an example of lifting anathemas even when you may agree with the anathema given at the time. Future generations may end up venerating both, but you don’t have to, which is probably why in Ethiopia it’s complex and no straightforward answer is given. What matters is that if the faith is the same, or there is spiritual benefit from the person you receive (like Isaac the Syrian and John Saba), then lifting anathema is not such a difficult thing except when it’s connected with pride. Objectively, the issue of Chalcedon can be resolved, but 1500 years of at times violent separation and pride will be difficult to overcome. Perhaps another 1500 years will be needed to heal the same wounds.
Mina we have a tradition that Chrysostom appeared to Cyril after death and he repented :)
Dr. Zebene: Whom should you invite and discuss? Craig
Why ?
Yes why?
Deacon Henok Elias here just said all the things that's on all our minds and cleared up so many things without the fear of being call a "menafek" there's no need for inviting Dr Zebene because we all know what he's going to say out of fear or just lack of knowledge.
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church firmly believes and teaches that our holy mother was concieved immaculately and protected by the holy spirit since her mother's womb. Even each praise stated by Arch Angel Gabriel during the annunciation were stated in the past tense not in present or future tense meaning GOD kept our holy mother from original sin to bear the incarnated logos. As an Orthodox church we don't systematically theologize instead we mystically interperate biblical issues and one of the major issue that affect Christology is the teaching of mariology and Deacon Henok doesn't fully explain the position of our church in mariology. He doesn't even quote mostly repeated and known biblical verses that explain the immaculate conception of our lady mary. Finally One thing most eastern Orthodox church misunderstood is that they believe doctrine of immaculate conception was formulated recently in 18th by Roman Catholics but this issue was hotly debated from 4th century and church fathers have their say on it which is parallel to the concept of the immaculate conception. Please dn Henok ask Megabi Hadis Rodas the most notable exegesist in Ethiopia who wrote two high volume book related with mariology. Thamk you!
not immaculately you are mistakenly saying the roman catholic doctrine of immaculate conception
estern orthodox do not believe in immaculate conception man 👨
@@abeloabebaw2990 we are not eastern orthodox
Hey what good info. Where can I go to get solid info on the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and their history? Also how does Melchizedek relate to the church? Thanks
This’s actually a debated topic amongst the Ethiopian Orthodox Church scholars. The popular opinion within the church is as you stated. However, many ancient Ethiopian Orthodox texts suggest otherwise and an argument can be made against the doctrine of immaculate conception of Virgin Mary. So it’s not conclusive as you have suggested. As an Ethiopian Orthodox believer, I think it’s best we don’t steer away from the universal Orthodox Church teachings by formulating new doctrines which are rejected by both the Oriental and Easter Orthodox sister churches.
We recognize jhon the Damascus as EOTC
I am a Protestant who leans towards orthodoxy but I believe in the immaculate conception. Mary can be seen as sinless in both Orthodox and Catholic traditions so I don’t see why a fuss over the “when”. She is the Ark fashioned by God. She still chose to follow God
Both agree that Mary was sinless, its just that Rome believes that Mary was conceived without original sin, based on an Augustinian presupposition about what original sin entails.
Is sinless***
@@NeoNoir_94 yes. This is where both groups kind of lose me though I am more along the lines of what the Orthodox churches teach. I think there has been way way too much "theologizing" and picking hairs regarding a lot of this. Rome clearly has an older brother complex and HAS to detail, catalogue, and explain everything.
It is just a lot easier for me as a regular Christian dude to say:
"If the early church believed Her to be EVER VIRGIN and Sinless, than that is what I believe too."
@@brotherbroseph1416 she is the new Eve. Eve was made perfect and chose to sin. Mary being the fulfillment of her, although born with ancestral sin(being the consequences of adams sin(death, and a proclivity to sin: which means in Greek to literally shoot an arrow and miss the mark, not breaking some law)) She chose not to sin. So Mary is the fulfillment of the nation of Israel and the Law and a type of the ark of the Covenant. But she was created like every woman. This means she is the archetype of what all people can be.
@@Orthodoge Pray for me please. I am going through a bit of a rough period.
I wish oriental,eastern and Catholic be reunited
The Catholics that believe in the oriental church doctrines are welcomed to come get baptised and join the true tewahedo church
Loved It🙂.
Along with other issues of internal disagreement, the Tewahedo Beta Kristian needs to come to terms with the significance and legacy of Emperor Haile Selassie 1 who presided over the independence of the Ethiopian church from the Coptic church of Alexandria and over the changing the name of the nation from Abyssinia to Ethiopia.
They have cut off their head.
@@fiyahan Yes , they will not be a strong healthy body until they acknowledge and give praises to the King of Kings, Conquering Lion of Judah, Emperor Haile Selassie 1.
We love our emperor, what's the problem? His title is defender of the faith and that's in ALL the Oriental Orthodox churches. What more could anyone want?
@@zyaicob I am saying that He should be recognized as a Saint at the very least.
Without Him Ethiopia most likely would have had decades of being colonized, with the Roman Catholic church being dominant and would still be known as Abyssinia, which is not its biblical name.
@@thenowchurch6419 that would be nice but it's not exactly necessary and it would be extremely bad faith to hold the fact that he isn't a saint AGAINST the church in any way. He never would have
Im proud of you Dcn Henok as you born and raised in US and reserved the orthodox tewahdo and Amhara.
St John of Damascus is my favorite saint
21:00 - 23:25 illustrares my honest view of the mentality of Tewhado scolars. No matter what type of criticism, concern or reservation one might have about the tewhado church it is viewed with suspicion and instant dismissal.
May be or may not be. I think the most important thing is to first know the church well before criticism. I personally see many outsiders speaking negatively about the church are too shallow. Or at least they are just generalizing.
Dear teacher please could you send me books of Mariology.Christology .Holy Trinity. or simply the one you have .please help me please!
www.revistateologica.ro/wp-content/uploads/RT-4-2021.pdf
Mary sinned, Jesus had to die for her sins also.
It's good discussion i would like to thank you all. Can have D/n Henok's address?
Yup ! That’s what make the Tewahedo Bete-christian different , the one and only true bete-Christian , that I wish would stop using the word “orthodox” coz we have never been called “orthodox” until the 20th century .
Why cant I find Mariology in the Bible without taking Ezekiel 44:2 out of context?
Maybe you're a little slow.
@@anc01901 maybe because it isn't there
@@SeekTheCross Ezekiel is an odd place to start your search for Mariology. The obvious places to start would be the Gospel of Luke, the Proto-Evangelium in Genesis, and the book of Revelation. I'm Orthodox, but I would point you to Roman Catholic Brant Pitre's "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary: Unveiling the Mother of the Messiah" as your guide to Mariology in the Bible.
@@anc01901 no thanks, I rather keep it biblical. I don't want to go beyond what is written in the Scriptures. It's not essential for salvation neither is it taught by Jesus or the Apostles. I believe Mary was a virgin, but after she gave birth to Jesus biologically she was no longer a virgin and also married to Joseph and the Bible states they had children both male and female but the Roman Catholics apologetics completely butcher those Scriptures to say things it doesn't say. By now I only trust the Bible and some of the church fathers, not to mention Mariolatry came into existence after the year 300. I just stick to praying to God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
@@anc01901 to add to my last comment, old testament also tells the prophecy of a virgin birth, not a perpetual virginity.
i dnt think the deacon fully explained the position of the ethiopian church
That's interesting, which parts do you think could be improved upon
I agree,yet I really appreciate his effort.I recommend to every one who can read Amharic to read a book written by Debtera Be aman Netsere (በአማን ነጸረ/ደብተራ/) entitled ወልታ ጽድቅ (Welta Tsedeq) to capture the teachings of our Holy Etyopian Orthodox Tewahido Church regarding The original sin.
The Ethiopian church believes the blessed Virgin Mary to be conceived without sin , completely so less, but we believe she died, resurrected and ascended to heaven. We believe anyone who claimed her not to have been born sinless as a heretic!!! However the clergy has become political than standing for God’s truth and still claims to have unity with oriental churches that recently claimed that the blessed Mother is not free of original sin.The great fall away indeed is here and the Tewahedo church is the only one standing
@@BeKemeFeqaduso are you going to anathematize both Alexandria and Antioch because we dont believe in the immaculate conception. We believe in dispassionate conception but not immaculate conception. Immaculate conception stems from Augustinian thought, which, to my understanding was completely absent from Abyssinia until
Portuguese missionaries set foot in Abyssinia.
#Craig_Truglia: here are three points (a I am Theology Student in Tewahedo Church)
1. dcn Henok is wrong @ 41:00. the official position is determined by the council of scholars of the Church and the synod. and regarding Immaculate Conception, the Church #official position is that Immaculate Conception is not only a belief but it is a Doctrine in the Church. yes there are few monks against it but that has nothing to do with the Church's official position. to prove this the easiest way is to ask any one from the council of scholar of the church or to ask the Holy Synod on the stance of the Church regarding the Immaculate Conception. they actually released a video to clarify the stance. the 5th Patriarch Abuna Pawulos do implicitly mentioned Mary may not be conceived Immaculately on his PhD dissertation but is has no acceptance or doesn't reflect the position of the Church in any way. (by the way many church members and scholars do reject their Patriarchy because since they are promoted as patriarch while the 4th Patriarch is Alive.)
2. dcn Henok said "the is no writing in the Church that is pro Immaculate conception until like 700 years ago", this is completely wrong there are bunch of writings by Ethiopian highly venerated scholar, even in the Axumite period, St. Yared can easily be one of them who wrote about BVM as She is free from any Curse, stain, consequence etc of any kind.
3. dcn Henok said "the older you go in our church the emphasis is on the annunciation." that is completely wrong. you can not mention any thing evidential to illustrate that. in contrary you will find that Her immaculateness do not starts at the conception but when she was though in Mind of God.
Was this ever addressed by the holy synod? I’d be interested in reading a synodal document from the Ethiopian church on this issue.
You are saying this. He is saying that. In between we are un confusion. Anyways, I would rather choose to focus on cleanse from my sin rather than theologizing myself about this very complex issues.
@@Ortho_1_Christ The holly Synod (the Highest Theological Binding Decision Making Body) already released documents professing Immaculate Conception. so the bias is over
@@The_AgentSmith Okay, I heard you. But for me this kind of complex theology is out of my pay raise. I better focus on how to cleanse my sins. Thanks for your info anyways.
It is nonsense to dispute the legitimacy of Abune Paulos' patriarchy by appealing to the authority of Abune Merkorios, may their blessings be upon us. Abune Mathias and Abune Merkorios served together as patriarchs, we reconciled the issue, there were violations of canon law but we reached reconciliation.
Great show, however in my experience the Tewhado church has stated eating pork is a sin. They were unambiguous about it. However I understand the deacons clarification on authority.
I've also been told unambiguously that they teach the Immaculate Conception, but Henok has clarified things. Also, as he pointed out, there is a difference between popular and hierarchical beliefs, and the hierarchy is not strictly synodical due to the religious import of the monarchy. As I suspected, the Ethiopian paradigm does not neatly fit into other systems and one sort of needs to be immersed in it to get it and to understand its inconsistencies (and whether these inconsistencies are epistemically an issue). It appears to me the Ethiopians do not concern themselves with reconciling competing views, but merely pass them on and preserve them. The Scriptures are similar in this regard as are modern Roman Catholics. The Eastern Orthodox are much more strictly harmonizers.
Henok is a great guest thanks for the interview. I respect the treasure which is the Tewahedo heritage but they, like the Copts and Armenians, seem unresolved when it comes to many important details and do not have a very consistent confession.
In some respects the early Church would have appeared this way on sacramental and ecclesiological issues.
it is a different focus! theology, as most understand the word, is an extention of greek, latin, and anglo-saxon thought. homiletics are the embodiment of semitic thought, which is to say praxis, found in hebrew, syriac / aramaic, amharic, and ge'ez.
@@thomascomerford9683 A contradictory and inconsistent understanding of the truth is not the mark of the Church
@Eremias Ranwolf except in Roman Catholicism we see contradictory creeds and Liturgies in different sects. Some venerating saints that the Vatican has deemed heretics. Now we have the papal church saying that EO have the real presence of Christ in legitimate sacraments but that we still need communion with the pope. This is absolute lunacy and not the religion of Catholics a century ago let alone 2000 years ago. In Orthodoxy we do not see this bizarre world of contradictions and optional schools of theology there is a miraculously simply and consistently confessed faith in the mouths of the Saints century after century unchanging. So yes the RC make the same argument in theory but it is hypocritical and discrediting to their own position in reality.
The only thing I don’t understand with him is he tried to emphasize so much about Axum which is not really that much recognized among Ethiopians for orthodox religions. Except for a couple of churches that’s the regime roots which came out openly saying we broke the back of the Orthodox Church even during the war because of their hate for Amharas they deducted inside the Orthodox Church by slaughtering animals and using it as their cleaning area. I never grow up hearing Axum was a place for orthodox religions never but of course laibela Gonder and Showa…etc. is the roots. People still hold regardless of the continuing attack of the church and the followers because the new regime want to replace it with Protestant washed religion which most of the poor became brain washed seeking economic help;( it’s tragic what’s going on in Ethiopia the past 40 years. Both the Arabs and the west want to destroy the country by destroying the Orthodox Church that’s holding it together by the threads today.
More prayers to Ethiopia!🙏🏼🎄🕯️
It’s unfortunate and to give the respect to the pops during the last 37 years in Ethiopia. They’re politically appointed rather than the true religious and traditional way of becoming a pop based on your merits. Their intentions were by collaborating the outside enemies to destroy the fundamental to Ethiopian unity and to the nation of Ethiopia. Both Derg the communist regime and TPLF now the Oromo’s dominant regime are anti orthodox religions and the church.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church does not adhere to the belief in the Immaculate Conception of Saint Mary. While some may liken it to this doctrine due to our profound reverence for her, the Church asserts that there is no concept of original sin in our belief system. Therefore, we affirm that Saint Mary remained sinless, but we do not subscribe to the notion of her immaculate conception.
That is incorrect we do hold to the immaculate conception. It was agreed in the April 28th 2017 Ecumenical Council Meeting in Cairo Egypt. Also there are older writings from 550 AD: It is all over our Saint Yared and Aba Giyorgis writings. Please stop spreading misinformation!!
If Mary didn't have Original Sin, then she didn't resist sin, and therefore her position as the New Eve, the Perfected Eve, makes no sense. The RC dogma on this causes all kinds of problematic ripples through their theology. A good example of the importance of right doctrine.
The behavior of God/Christ is perfectly sinless. So, How could he drive a flesh from her. God keep her perfect in order to share her soul and flesh. Unless, we will say he drive sinful flesh from her? It doesn't make any sence. Dave says, God keep his dwell pure.
I'm not sure the Church teaches one way or the other on our Lady's ability to be tempted.... Christ resisted sin... Mary is co-redemprix.
@@unitedafrica6788 yeah... they're saying she has a sinful human nature even if her soul was clean... she didn't have a defiled nature........!
@@gusv2047 yes she has sinful human nature. she is also drive her soul and flesh from human nature. she is human being. But God keeps her pure and perfect.
@@unitedafrica6788 I'm not well read on this subject but I suppose there is room for private opinion on the matter... did our Lord have a fallen human nature? Yes and no, perhaps -compared with the body of Adam in Eden. Most Catholics only mean our Lady is free of any guilt of sin. I recall St. David speaking about being conceived in sin and not being free from sin for one day. Even saying "fallen nature" is highly ambiguous, but I appreciate the reply. A common argument against the Immaculate Conception is that our Lady is believed to have died, as Christ. That is a consequence of Original Sin but our Lady was not guilty of Original Sin because she is all pure. So she fulfilled the 1st Commandment as far a humanly possible for an Infant and even Fetus; whereas until we are baptised we are, "children of wrath." We are selfish children, she never was selfish for a day. I hope that helps. Thank you. Let me know if that makes sense to you
I think St John of Damascus (yohannes ze demasko) is for the very list recognized as St in the church if not canonized. I might be wrong but I have for sure heard a few sermons where this st is quoted or referred to. ua-cam.com/video/6PDTxhbECp0/v-deo.html is one example for those who can understand amharic. Although I don't seem to understand his position in regards to miaphysite vs dyophysite on "the exact exposition of the orthodox faith", It's undeniable that his works on other subjects such as his difence of icnography is a great use for the church.
thank you, that link is helpful.
Btw... re: Qidus Yohannes Ze Demasko, I am guessig he would have been miaphysite ? (As the Syriac Orthodox are in the Oriental tradition...)
John Damascene was Chalcedonian
Afroasiatic church that’s an interesting way to phrase it . What made him use this term to classify the churches he is referencing collectivity
This was based on the language group used in church service and has nothing to do with race. The church service is done using Ge'ez language which is classified as southern semitic language which is afroasiatic language group.
I'm crying cause no one can talk about the truth that Eritrean orthodox monastery and Tigray too. History was stolen. Praying truth will come out one day.
Which truth ?? Tigray is part of Ethiopia
Mary was a Jewish girl who worked at the temple and met Joseph also a Jew who got her pregnant out of wedlock and had to marry her as her situation would have resulted in both being killed or driven out of the village for good. So am always amazed at Christians claiming her to be a Christian icon including Jesus who was a Jew.
Ethiopian Jew right?
May God have mercy on your soul, blasphemer
Sorry but Ethiopian history is mostly fiction.
The reason why people have a hard time finding anything pre-1200 AD is because Axum was sacked and destroyed by the pagan ancestors of Amhara (Agaw).
Any pre-1200 history is hidden in Eritrea - the land of the real Ge'ez people, the Agaazi.
If you want the truth, then you'll have to accept the following point:
1- Ethiopia is Sudan, present day Ethiopia stole the name to solidify its monarchs.
2- Amharas are Cushites not Semites. They are primarily Agaws and invented Amharic in the middle ages to semiticise themselves. Amharic is an invented language and has no semitic roots.
3- Everything pre-1200 AD is Eritrean history, tradition and language. The only region in Ethiopia to preserve some Eritrean characteristics is Tigray, at that, only the border areas i.e Axum, Yeha and Gulo Makeda.
what sources do you have to prove these 3 claims? any books?
@@tankiebot704 every single academic history book. You pick!
@@teages there are DNA tests that prove we are semantic, and linguistics cant just be invented lmao it seems you have some unresolved hate for amharas like every other ethnic tribe in Ethiopia, Oromos, Tigrays. the anti-Amhara philosophy is evident and hate is really not a good look well have a great day!.
@@mnzdeep4258 I have nothing against 'amharas', 'amharas' do - Ethiopia's biggest issue is that all ethnicities, including amharas, hate they true selves. They all turned into culture vultures.
My advice to you and your compatriots is to make peace with your real identity and history. Embrace yourselves, don't try to become someone else.
it is funny!
ዲያቆን ሄኖክ እና Caraig የቅድስት ድንግል ማርያም ልጅ ኢየሱስ ይባርካቹ❤
ዲያቆን ሄኖክ እና Caraig የቅድስት ድንግል ማርያም ልጅ ኢየሱስ ይባርካቹ❤