@@albert2006xptrue. I lost interest in genshin recently, but I still gotta log in daily... Same with wuwa - loading screens are cancer, dailies therefore take way too much time.
i can argue about hoyo became the "most predatory". have you played another eden? atelier resleriana? if not, do some research about the two games and why japan gacha rarely got popular despite that many games they own. not only predatory but you need to play and grind a lot. if we talk about gacha in general, yes it is what gacha is all about.. fomo. and that's why it is generally bad monetization if you wanted to maximize and not missing out some freebies. for potential, yes i believe it can improve in many things, if hoyo wanted to or still within their vision of the game. as of now i can enjoy the game just fine. clearing stories and most content just using the 3 starters. no pay at all. but i agree, sometimes, it feels like bad idea of mixing all of those genre but saved by their cinematic battle and scenes.
i can enjoy the game if only the combat section of the game is the entirety of the game. The TV Section of the game is literally one of the worst and wasted game design ever. 57GB of download and 110GB of decompressing just to press and read texts on TV, i ain't wasting another time on that. (yes i know i just said "the game" consecutively for 4 times in this comment)
@@a4arick106 well, i kinda love dungeon crawling game. the tv is good most of the time for me. been wanted to play games like that for a while. but sometimes it can be annoying since it tends to stretch and wasting a lot of time. too many things happened without us really seeing what happened. i love the tv gameplay, but they way they decide what happened on the tv sometimes turn me off.
@@darknessinc.Inc830 well, it's hard to decide. i mean gacha games are vast.. some seems we can pull often but you need hundred of dupes to maximize each characters which is tedious. out of games that i play, believe wuwa is still the best in term of gacha value. but as for the gameplay, it depend on each person... and it is hard to just rate the gameplay without considering the other aspect. but overall, i still prefer genshin over the others i have played. but in term of gacha, genshin sucks. not as much as atelier and another eden tho. edit : oh, granblue fantasy is crazy good in term of gacha. they do not get much money tho.
While it is true that Another Eden is brutal in terms of pulls, that game has the decency of offering you viable free characters (especially Aldo who keeps getting buffed). But in my opinion, the one gacha game that wants you to pull AND grind an ungodly amount of time for me is Guardian Tales. The amount of materials you need to farm to get ONE unique rarity character to max level is so crazy it makes you want to max out lower rarity characters to use them temporarily until the day you finally finished grinding.
Always remember in any monetized game, the companies hire, basically evil psychologists, to make their games as manipulative as possible, and it's a proven fact that the more time you spend playing a monetized game, the more likely you are to spend money on it. They're after you money, nothing else.
This is true of everywhere money is spent just most people have a barrier to entry with luxury spending that makes it easier for most to view it from the "outside". It's the same psycho tricks that put 90% of the things you never touch in your home along with all those subscriptions and fast food containers in your trash. People are always whaling, just it's according to the size of the pond (their income).
Are you surprised they want to make money? Those games are for free and ofc they want to make people spend money but it's not an obligation so its cool and theres nothing that shady going on
I like this game and you're still right. Mostly playing Zenless for the Aesthetic. Haven't seen characters this expressive, colorful, and fun since Xenoblade 2. I feel like there is more characters depth than what is given credit for here, but its not found in the main story. But yeah, if this wasn't a gacha game, it would be so much better.
Tbf.. holy shit why does it take until end of Chapter 2 interm for that It might be quick to anyone with more than 6 hours to spare once at home but that's just not it for a lot of us
@@LunarEdge7 Because that's how most gacha games work ... they are made to have you spend as much time in it as possible (whether that's good or bad). Persona 5 is an already fully made game and gacha games are continuously updated over long periods of time and this is also Hoyo's first game like this ... I think
@@bankaimaster999 u forgot to mention that the content we have are like just the start of the game u havent even finished the most part of tutorials until second chapter
@@KauanEsmaniotto Yeah when it first came out I dropped it because the beginning was so insanely bloated it seriously felt worse than skyward sword for how long it locks away the games core features. Somehow I ended up playing it again and spending money fml.
This is all stuff I knew, but now I'm starting to realize how much I'm being mistreated compared to other games. This video inspired me to take a step back and away from this game and focus on other more tangible ones. Thank you.
some fair takes, a lot of the criticisms like short fights and "pushing square until it's time to push triangle" only apply to the early game and the game was explicitly designed with a very low entry and gentle learning curve to give people who aren't familiar with spectacle fighters a good way in Fighting a boss for 6+ minutes in Shiyu where every move matters is certainly not brief, and the combat system very much holds up in higher difficulty. or rather, it gets better. the movesets are only shallow if you try to play one character with some sidekicks, instead of a team with ~30 skills that interact and synergize in various ways the character stories and some of their cinematics specifically focus on aspects of the characters that make them more nuanced and well-rounded instead of their main gimmick game is predatory and grindy. it's a gacha, it comes with the territory I take it as the cost of having high quality worlds and stories that keeps growing and developing for years and for free But it does prey on the vulnerable
When playing an gacha the ones who do already know what they are getting into, it's just simply being intelligent with your resources that will make you not dump your entire wallet to the drain because you couldn't stop doing singles on every banner that appears. People simply dont have the patience to do so, therefore they fall into the trap. Save up the summoning currency for more than 1-2 month (or up to 4-6 if you are actually that patient), then dump everything in a banner that has an character you absolutely want to get, then get alot of others as random A-S classes. And if they want to actually spend, wait for discounts that are worth it. That's at least how gachas should be handled with
"People here live in poverty. It's a slum, it comes with the territory." Should you accept that? Shouldn't you change something? And it's not worth it, it has to be a masterpiece for the amount of souls people have sold, but it's not, and will never be. The game is so expensive that they need to play safe with everything, and doesn't allow them to take any risks that required for the masterpiece to be born. And the game is not free, it costs you your soul, your time; a similar game like this that's cheaper is Persona 5, at least this game costs you money. Pay with your money, not your soul. The shallow combat, in the video he's already explained that it becomes wider the more you progress, not deeper like a good game should. The movesets are shallow in comparison to other good games in the genre. Play Devil May Cry once, and you'll know how terrible ZZZ is. The gaming industry bubble keeps getting bigger, and bigger. Not sure if it'll affect the mobile side, but I sure hope it will. Gacha game is a bad business model, not in terms of virtue alone it's bad for the market, bad for the capitalism - capitalism is a lasting business, not this quick cashgrab - and I hope it dies.
@@superpnutbutter8608why do you keep trying to compare a mobile game to AAA titles? Not every game needs to be at those levels. You are pretty much over reacting about how you “pay with your soul” it’s so corny. People are playing the game cuz they want to, so just let them.
@@vernal5545 The pay with your souls part is a reference to Rick and Morty where people buy "free" stuffs with consequences, and Rick open a shop across the road and advertise it "pay with your money, not your soul" I know people won't get the reference, but I think it's fitting. Minecraft, Terraria, Deadcells, Stardew Valley, WitchSpring, Bloodstained:RotN, etc. are all available on mobile (WitchSpring is originally a mobile game, even) Gacha games have no excuses for being so predatory just because they're mobile games. These predatory core design is not even about being fun, that's outer layer, instead they aims toward milking money. That's why the good games I mentioned are better, because they make a good game first, money second. And you don't even need a good hardware to make a fun game, I could probably run Vampire survivor on my printer, but the game is amazing. And I'm not overreacting, I hate how manipulative it is. Genshin is number one because it's the best at hacking your brain to keep you playing, not because you enjoy it, but it becomes your job. And I'm so sick of a game like this. Especially when it succeeds because of how manipulative it is, not the game is good.
@@superpnutbutter8608 Can honestly agree on this sentiment of if you've played other games of the "hack and slash" Genre to where these mobile Gacha games tries to emulate you just can't even get invested to it because of what could've been. Legit I'm very aware that I've hold gachas like this to unreasonable expectations or standards but can you even blame me in that regards? They have the the tool to do so yet they chose not to which is seriously a shame but it is what it is. Until a "Gacha" can capture that feeling of DMC, MGR, Bayonetta, etc. (other than Uktrakill or the upcoming soon hit game that can captures it that being V.A. Proxy) then honestly it's just a pass and I'll take my time on something "more important" or captures my interests you could say.
simplicity in the gameplay, is designed intentionally with new characters in mind. If they can focus on one core combo, with some side combos and abilities, as well as just have numbers and what not, then they can do a lot of new characters... which in a Gacha is very important. New characters are a constant, it's the lifeblood of a gacha. It's how they keep money rolling. And trying to balance new characters to be unique, new, and not powercreep other characters is going to be a careful balancing act. They might in the future offer some sort of limit break to characters (the game is JUST released, it's still a baby and the story doesn't get you to the max level yet), that will expand on this but Gacha is what drives literally every aspect of the game. ZZZ is manipulating you, yes. It's literally gambling. I'm just a sucker.
While I can understand the perspective for someone who just finished Chapter 1, I think it's a disservice to the game to treat it like this because there's a lot more beyond. There's a lot of combat content that unlocks later to balance out the story: combat ratio, with different game modes for you to bring your characters and combat understanding to the test. Hollow Zero, Combat commissions, Hard mode story battles, Shinyu Defense etc. It's not a difficult or complex game by any means, but the combat is fundamentally satisfying and you can do a lot of it later on and there's a lot you can explore to be better and flashier, through actively controlling character switching rotations, animation cancelling, planning out status effects to trigger Disorder, and enemies start to have more interesting quirks than just "press the switch button when a golden flash appears", Chapter 3 boss is a great example. But what has to be the best thing that this game does that gets completely thrown under the bus in this video is its worldbuilding and characters. You mentioned that the characters aren't expanded upon but that's because it's only the first chapter and they aren't explored yet. Nekomata for example gets a story quest dedicated to her and it fleshes out her character way beyond the scope of the story quest. None of the Cunning Hares trio's pasts have come into play yet but you can get little hints everywhere in their dialogues about past events that drove them where they are now. The worldbuilding is absolutely fantastic if you actually try to engage with it, you mentioned that there is no reason to explore on your own and it couldn't be more wrong. You have the social media posts on the Inter-knot that cover many different details about the world in an organic way, and a ton of different NPCs all with their own individual stories and progression that you can totally miss if you just chase after the next red objective. There are so many interesting random interactions and little meaningful stories to see around the world that I genuinely had a session with this game where I just ran around for hours listening to NPCs, and as a player who played many JRPGs for like over a decade now there were few games that can make me feel something similar. Closest one is probably the Trails series. This is the aspect that cut this game above every other gacha game for me. You want actually serious topics well look no further than some of the side quests in Chapter 2, especially the Detective one, whoever played it will know what I'm talking about. I don't exactly the defend the game's slow progression but for the love of god can everyone attempt to review something like this after actually experiencing everything it has to offer at launch. I feel like most of the negative ZZZ videos tend to be from early game players who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the point they stopped at is where they have seen everything, where some of the mechanics like being able to interact with playable characters around the world randomly are introduced as late as Inter-knot Level 30+.
Not so sure about Keno story quest fleshing out her character that much. Imo it's just another mediocre content block to complete with bloated dialogue
I agree. At first i wasn't too engaged with the story and overworld character interactions but after some sessions i went back and payed more attention to the narrative and it's good honestly. This is pure souls and fighting game bias but i would like to have a Block button XD (the B and LT button on combat are unused i think) , sometimes i like to play hollow zero for example with one agent only and would be nice to have a second chance if you screw up the perfect dodge timing and mitigate the damage or hell, even parry the sh*t out of the enemies attack when timing properly. It could expand a little more the combat system. Other thing that i would like is a versus mode, which i won't expect it to be balanced but at least it could be a nice addition. Could be fun to fight against or heck, even alongside friends in a team battle mode or something with all the crazy stuff going on.
Almost every complaint, particularly about the characters' depth, is resolved if you playing. This dude didn't see any of it. He didn't even get to trust events, which is the social link equivalent Bro didn't even unlock bangboos
i kind of disagree with the part where the characters don't have much depth because there are character quests and character demos and trailers which make up for the stuff that isn't shown but you are right that it doesn't have enough depth another thing is W engines are actually the weapons of genshin equivalent
what are y’all even looking for in a 2 week old online-service game? do you guys think this is the finished product or something? they have more than enough time to expand upon anything in the game including characters, story, narrative etc. that has always been the case for these games also imo their simplistic or almost comical characterization is by design and they don’t take most of the things seriously overall, just look at the cutscene animations, do you calculate the physics or evaluate physiological accuracy in their movements? no. it’s not that deep. if you want a gritty, dramatic, edgy-toned game then ZZZ isn’t what you’e looking for
The argument towards the end of the video implying that Hoyo games, ZZZ in this case, require "time and money" is not true. Not only is all the content completable F2P, once you are through the main story campaign, the time the game asks of you is minutes at most. The daily routine is maybe 5-10 minutes. This is much faster than most live service games. In fact, the main problem I have with this video is your lack of information, and how most of these criticisms are obviously coming from a place of dislike for the live service model in general. The idea of consistently logging in to make more progress, and the game incentivizing you to do so everyday with various means, is not even remotely something unique to gacha games. I am all in favor of criticizing this model of making money, but it would help if you actually presented the correct information. In your description of ZZZ's gacha, you call the "W-Engines" (A.K.A, weapons) "W-drives" then imply that what you are pulling in the gacha is the equivelant to artifacts in Genshin. That's just wrong. Compared to their other games, despite what you said, you effectively are getting the same items you would in HSR or Genshin. Moreover the drops for "4 stars" in ZZZ are actually higher. There are some other points that make it a bit better, but it's not relevant. However, if you are going to criticize this games monetization you should have your information correct. My other issue is your take on the combat. Hoyo games have simple gameplay, and depth through team composition/character kits. I'm not going to act like it's the most complex 5head 4d chess game ever, but in the endgame of their games, well built teams with decent gameplay are required assuming you are not P2W. Instead of unlocking new skills or playstyles for characters, you instead use other characters to compliment their kit and unlock new ways to play the game. Learning how to optimize your rotations between enemy attacks, juggle your buffs to line up with your DPS character, there's a lot of considerations to make at the higher levels. Though, I agree the early game is much too easy. "Challenge mode" should actually be... a challenge. Your argument against the game seems to mostly come down to criticisms of the gacha system, that it ruins the gameplay experience, and that the live service model damages the game. I would say that all the content, with the exception of a singular biweekly rotating end game mode, is almost completely unaffected by the gacha or live service model. You can play through all the story, extra game modes, etc. simply by going through it like any single player game. What you are missing is that this games gacha or live service model does not pray on all players equally. That is not why the systems in their games are so devious. The issue is that the game is otherwise F2P friendly, and functions as a singleplayer game. This lowers the guard of players, and makes them more likely to be forthcoming to spend. Moreover, people who are very susceptible to FOMO will feel as if they are forced to spend so they don't miss the new character, despite the fact that they would be more than fine without them. It is an illusion of "needing" something vs it being required and affecting the game. If you had focused on this, I would agree with you a lot more. As someone who plays these games, I understand they are predatory, and it's not something I want to defend. However, if you are going to criticize them, understanding why they are bad and what the context is *around* it's payment model is really important.
Yeah this game respects you're time far more than other hoyo games especially genshin, guarenteed boss drops and I don't have to worry about a 0.5% chance to get one drop of a sub boss item that I need 5 of to finish maxing out one of my abilities, crap like that killed any interest in genshin for me
While you make some valid points about the game’s time and money requirements, I believe there are some nuances you might be overlooking. Firstly, the argument that ZZZ requires significant time and money isn't purely about the absolute time or money spent, but about the psychological tactics these games employ. The game might only need a few minutes a day for dailies, but the constant need to log in and keep up with daily tasks can create a feeling of obligation, which can be stressful for some players. This is a common trait of live service games and gacha mechanics. Regarding your point about all content being completable as a free-to-play (F2P) player, it's true that dedicated F2P players can complete most content. However, the gacha system is designed to create a sense of urgency and desire for new characters and weapons, which can lead to spending. The difference in drop rates or item names (like W-Engines vs. W-drives) is less important than the underlying system that encourages spending through psychological manipulation. On the topic of combat, while Hoyoverse games do offer some depth through team composition and character kits, they often rely on repetitive mechanics. The need to optimize rotations and buffs is a layer of strategy, but it doesn’t necessarily make up for the overall simplicity of the combat system. Additionally, the early game’s lack of challenge can be a significant drawback for new players looking for a more engaging experience from the start. Your point about the game’s gacha and live service model not affecting most of the content might be true in a technical sense, but the constant introduction of new characters and items, and the fear of missing out (FOMO) it generates, can heavily impact player enjoyment and satisfaction. This manipulation of FOMO is particularly concerning as it targets vulnerable players who may feel pressured to spend to keep up. Lastly, while the game might be F2P friendly on the surface, the deeper issue is how it gradually encourages spending. The subtle pressures and inducements to spend, even if not immediately apparent, are what make these systems predatory. Players might not need to spend money to enjoy the game, but the design encourages it in ways that can be detrimental over time.
@@joaochrystello5869 I agree with a lot of what you have to say here, and I probably could have been more clear when it came to the nuances, however I don't see them as being particularly relevant in this situation. My main point was to point out that the criticisms being levied at the game were misrepresentations of the game that were obviously from a place of misunderstanding. For example, his comment about the time investment/money investment was an implication that the game required a lot of those things. It's just a fact that it doesn't, especially in comparison to other live service games. You can argue that dailies give you a sense of obligation to login, and I would agree, however this is a criticism of live service games as a whole, like you say. Criticizing the game for this as if it's unique to the game, outside of the context of this being very common in the live service industry, is disingenuous to me. Within the context of live service games, the daily grind for ZZZ, and most gachas by proxy, is much faster than most. It's that way by design, and is such why I took issue with that claim. I completely agree that the gacha is inherently designed to create a sense of urgency based on the desire for players to experience new characters, and its a fair caveat to include. However, in this context, my point was to debunk the idea that money is required to beat anything in the game, so I didn't find it particularly relevant to the discussion. Regardless of how the game encourages you to spend, it doesn't change the fact you can still complete everything fairly easily F2P. As for combat, I can't disagree really. It's a matter of taste, I like the "simple to learn, but there's depth to master if you want" type of combat. It being simple isn't inherently a bad thing as far as I am concerned. Though I do agree that the game being too easy early on can put people off, that's why I mentioned that challenge mode should actually be somewhat difficult. In regards to the business model not affecting the game, most of what you said here I already mentioned. I agree with you entirely that FOMO can affect the overall enjoyment of the game, and that it affects certain people differently. I probably could have made that more clear. Your last point about the game being F2P friendly on the surface while gradually encouraging spending, is also basically what I say at the end of the comment. "This lowers the guard of players, and makes them more likely to be forthcoming to spend." is specifically a criticism of the subtle pressure and manipulation that the game applies to you. I could have made it more clear though, because again, I agree with the last part of your reply wholeheartedly. I definitely did leave some nuances out, but mainly on the basis that I felt they weren't entirely necessary to the point of my comment, which was to illustrate that this person didn't actually understand the problems with the game.
A big problem with his video is he wanted an excuse to make the typical “gacha bad” video. It’s clear he didn’t even finish the first chapter as none of his footage is after the part where they get to 13th Street. So his complaints make no sense. “THE COMBAT IS TOO SHALLOW WHICH IS WHY YOU PLAY IT FOR A MINUTE” So you didn’t get to Shiyu Defence or Hallow Zero which are longer than a minute. He didn’t fight the Dead End Butcher who will clap you if you are trying to just press buttons. “WHY DONT THEY TALK ABOUT HOMELESS” If you played to Chapter 3, you’d know the critical detail wasn’t the homeless, but the explosive plan (as Vision was using the explosives to unearth Sacrifice). The game doesn’t elaborate on it because it doesn’t need to. Homeless people exist in the real world so the game in its urban setting doesn’t need to. He played the game for a few hours to complain about gacha. Even in that section, he got things wrong. IT DOESNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING except the game explains the entire thing and straight up gives you the odds. The only secret it keeps is soft pity which is to the players benefit. That’s fine if you want to bitch about gacha, but maybe he should play more of the game if he wants to actually criticize it.
idk man. I’ve been playing ZZZ for a while now and I don’t feel at all inclined to buy anything from it it does get a little grindy, probably because there’s not a lot of content at the end of the game. So actual story elements are split up more and more by leveling up your character. But I don’t find that too hard to even consider spending money for it, or getting a specific agent that I want. Realistically the game can be completed without pulling for characters ever, and just rolling with the characters the game gives you. and at the end of the day, it’s a really fun game that’s mostly free, and the micro transactions are barely needed
A few things I feel like haven't been brought up. 1. The game's characters should be viewed less like characters in dmc and more like the individual weapons of the kits. Ala dante's different swords and guns. No one character is going to have massive move sets because they aren't meant to. The move sets together are supposed to make up your full kit. And if you aren't enjoying that kit that you made, you need to experiment. 2. The game JUST came out and as yucky as I find the concept, the hoyoverse games are live service models. They aren't meant to be full packages up front but stories that expand as they go. That being said I do think that they do that worse here than genshin or HSR did. Both of those games had pretty great opening acts that, while feeling complete left a good amount of intrigue. ZZZ's didn't, it felt like there was supposed to be at least 2 more chapters upfront but they pushed it out the gate early. 3. It's a gacha game, the monetization is obviously predatory. Either exercise self restraint, be a whale, or don't play. I hate it, I really really do because I'd love to recommend the game tomore people but I have to be conscientious of who I recommend to because I know that not all my friends are capable of impulse control.
1. This is correct, however in practice they are still marketed as individual characters, which at face value, will still set the expectation that they are meant to have depth, i.e. a fully fleshed out kit. Instead, one can only reasonably expect shallow parts of kits you need to cobble together when you see a party based gacha game..... for the billionth time... -_- This point has been dismantled. 2. Terrible delivery cannot be excused by saying "it's a live service bro". This point is null and void, not worth the (further) effort to dismantle. 3. If you want to point out something is obvious, be my guest. But you're criticizing the guy for having pointed this out ,which it sure looks like it given the follow up, I will have to point out that no matter how obvious something is, being normalized doesn't absolve it from being objectively bad. Rather than this being a non-issue, it's instead a very deeply rooted severe problem with the games industry that must be solved, ideally by any justifiable means necessary. This point has now been dismantled as well. Just because a game is technically free to play , doesn't ever mean playing it should be unrewarding, shallow and with psychological trickery, bundled with deception via framing of things.
Lol dude I hate Mihoyo a lot but we need to start hating it for the right reasons. Your vídeo sucks to enforce any type of good criticism except the general consensus that gacha games are predatory for individuals who are easily affected by gambling and chance games. ZZZ is not perfect but its a far cry from what you are advertising. Next time, if you really want to push your agenda, bring some better arguments
I play on PC... for zero dollars. Main story in these games doesn't require grinding, gacha, or daily log-in. Free high budget anime visual novels, with good gameplay elements, great art, and banger soundtracks? Sign me up. Thanks whales for giving me games to play! (spend responsibly)
Yeah I get it but at the same time it's up to you if you want to play this game or a complete game. Everyone who knows anything about Mobile/Live Service knows they will be shut down one day. If that's a turn off then yeah play something else.
Preach. Also, frankly, what's here is really low-key compared to most gachas, even honkai impact 3 which this game is heavily inspired by. It's most just an energy system and pull currency.
"Whatever is going with the AAA industry" There's always been good AAA games and bad AAA games. If you think that you are forced to choose between only the bad AAA games and the gutter tier coomer slop mihoyo puts out then that's just you being misinformed. The video itself even mentions stuff like DMC V and P5R, 2 fucking amazing games that you owe to yourself to play if you enjoy the slop that is ZZZ since those are the games that this sorry excuse of gacha slop tries to emulate.
I ve been playing gacha games for a long time if any of you know a game called summoners war to zenless zone zero . Sometime i wonder why i play even when i am not enjoying the game , for some reason i kept playing the game , this video give me a different perspective from someone who actually play a quality game . Just like what you said its a treadmill, the longer you play gacha games the harder it becomes to quit gacha games because of sunk cost of fallacy , When you want to quit, you question yourself why quit when you already give so much time and effort , i am gonna play a quality game in steam , thank you for this video
I like Genshin Impact, but not for its characters or its stories (I have done very little story content). What I like it for is world exploration. Every time they release a new part of the world, I am incentivized to return to explore a little more and see a little bit more of that amazing world they have built. (and Teyvat is amazing.). I also enjoy just wandering through that world and visiting its beautiful cities, towns, and villages.
Although you have a fair point with how the characters are upgraded how in the face the micro transactions are. I have a feeling you may have not put that many hours in when this video was made. As when the you finish the current story and start to explore mid to late game most of your points about enemy encounters, character friendship meters and npcs in the game world are slightly behind most of the examples that were given. Sadly they don't really show until, at least for me, the 40 hr mark. But you have your opinions and I have mine as I'm enjoying it with only spending money on the battle pass.
i'm very glad i watched this first as i knew what kind of game it is, but youtube just does not stop flashing it in front of me. i was starting to think, "i guess i'll look at what it has" knowing that they will throw 20 pop ups to take my money. we work hard to play the games we love but for the games to expect and be built to have us work for them is an entire different story.
I understand some of your issues, but I think its a mistake to compare the game to games that are complete - Persona 5 for example. How much do we really learn about our companions in the first chapter of P5, vs by the end of the game? You're comparing the entire journey of P5 with ZZZ, and right now, ZZZ is in its first chapter. Give it some time to develop its story, to return to characters, and then see how things are. It could very well remain basic and one-note, but perhaps it may not. Maybe see how it is in a year or two..?
Gacha games rarely actually develop their characters. It's mostly like one few hours quest for a banner character and then go forward to the next character they need to sell.
Thanks for the video, I thought it was interesting and honest. The goal of this comment is to provide constructive feedback. You are correct for the most part you in your analysis about gatcha games in general, but make some statements and comparisons about the game that are either uninformed or misguided. I felt similarly about the game: There is not much to do in the City, dialogue drags on, and the game, while pretty, lacks gameplay depth to keep me interested. This is all true. Then I got to Chapter 2 Interlude. This is where the gameplay actually expands. New modes are added that are genuinely engaging. These include, but are not limited to, a Boss fight mode to improve your characters you can only play 3-times per week, and a Roguelike dungeon system that changes how you play and strategize each time. Additionally, you can hangout with 3 agents you have unlocked per day. This let's you build "Trust" that eventually unlock unique overworld and dungeon quests tailored around that specific character and other rewards including a new dynamic wallpaper of that character when you press the pause button in the City. 20:08 "What's present is a poor excuse for a gameplay loop." You are correct if you are talking just about Chapter 1 and the start of Chapter 2. However, I would argue the interesting gameplay loop does not appear until the end of Chapter 2. You are correct about the monetization. However, I believe it is misunderstood: Hoyoverse games entice players who A) seek a personal yet parasocial relationship with characters, and B) want to optimize clear times and build the best, strongest, fastest teams. If you spend nothing on this game, you are be able to comfortably progress through the main story with the free characters you get by investing resources in only them and playing on the Normal, non-Challenge-Mode difficulty. However, if you want to invest in every character to either 'befreind' them or beat the hardest missions the fastest, that's how they can get you, and you are right that it is dangerous for those players who struggle with loneliness, gambling, or other related issues. Also, this game has distinct advantages over the games you recommend. 1, it's free. If a player buys P5 or Nier Automata and they don't like it, refunding is a hassle if it's even an option. And 2, it's designed to be played on phones, and its daily missions can take as short as 5-10 minutes, depending on how much you want to do. Weekly missions, yes these are more of a time sink. But that is really only for those who want to become more invested in the game; you aren't missing out otherwise. Overall, Chapter 1 is designed for people who are not gamers. It is simple because it's trying to reach an audience that would not play action/fighting games because they percieve it as too difficult. So yes, the game is missing features at this point because it's still trying to get players hooked on the game first before in opens up new areas, characters, and gameplay challenges. For comparison, your argument against ZZZ's gameplay sounds like someone analyzing Persona 5 just after leaving Kamoshida's palace for the 3rd time (when you save Ann) and claiming the gameplay does not improve beyond that point. You know as well as I do that such an argument would be simply wrong, because the gameplay expands massively afterwards. However you are not wrong about how you described your gameplay experience, because that was *your* experience, mine as well. But I promise if you played a bit longer, it improves substantially. My few characters are only at level 30, and I'm not in a rush to get too far past that. And the game is literally in 1.0. Of course it will receive a plethora of new content that will be engaging and entertaining and address key problems many players have brought up. I recommend watching their roundtable discussion with the Street Fighter 6 directors, pretty insightful. That's about it. Thanks for reading, and have a blessed day!
I agree with you, but there are some things you’re wrong about. For example, I play 4 gacha games: ZZZ, HSR, GI and WW and honestly I used to have this problem where I would spend a lot of time on games in general, but people can get out of that phase. In my opinion it all comes down to the person themselves, I mean when it comes to spending money and spending time on games. In a sense, maybe it really does force you to, but like I said it depends on the person. And if it truly brings you joy, no matter what it is that brings you that joy, then it isn’t really wasting time. Of course, there should be some limits on how much time a person spends on a game, but yeah. Oh, and also, A FELLOW PERSONA 5 FAN LET’S GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Someone please explain to me why Hoyo games are considered really predatory as a gatcha game, I have played so many gatchas since 2014 before Genshin, and literally nearly 90% of the games are ridiculously grim for F2P with only few exception games that are nice to F2P. Like even the ones that still exists, SMT Dx2 and FGO are still ones that are up that are ridiculously less generous than the newer games. There were a lot of games without pity systems and majority of the older games really require you to pay to really get somewhere, I honestly feel like we're living in a time where these gatcha games do give more to F2P players than before where we used to not get much. I can name other classics like Rage of bahamut, Million Arthur, many of which just where the whales really kept those games alive. Western games like Injustice and Marvels are even worse where you really don't get anywhere unless you spend. I get that Hoyo games makes you feel like you want to spend, but overall it's a choice, they still give you loads to do content and earn stuff compare to any other gatchas before Genshin.
Because all gacha is predatory. The business model is built around hooking in whales with poor impulse control who can get baited by the fact that nothing has a clear price tag, they'll just have to keep spending until the slot machine rolls what you want. Before they know it they've ruined themselves financially. And this is what subsidizes the game and keeps it running for every F2P player, it only feels fair to you because someone else is bankrupting themselves to pay for it. I don't care if XYZ game is even worse. The lesser evil is still evil.
@missingno_fgc thank you for your explanation. I mainly just wanted to understand because in the past gatchas have been a lot worse and so far in my perspective has gotten way better where you can progress as a F2P player. But yeah, it's still bad that this practice is in place. I'm mainly questioning since people seem to make it sound like Hoyo set this trend that made gatchas predatory which it isn't true as it was always there before but worse
Aren't games in general literally about progression. Of course there's grinding to upgrade your character to progress further. You don't really have to spend money to enjoy the game, but it's true they do make it inciting to spend money. I think its just gacha games in general, not just ZZZ. Your whole argument about the game is time consuming and encourage spending money should be towards the gacha game in general or literally mobile games these days. Take this as an example, FC Mobile (by EA lol). Its not a gacha game but they literally share the same system with zzz. Battlepass, packs with high ovr (inciting people to spend money just like gacha) and lots of grinding and probably even worst, video ads to get points for progression in the event. I just think the hate about the game being too demanding and needs money to "progress" or feels satisfied shouldn't be pointed towards zzz alone. Its much more about the Mobile industry itself. I guess its the only way to make mobile games much more appealing. Maybe its just live service game in general
It is literally just a live service model thing, well checking this guy's last video it's pretty much obvious this is just another live service bad situation
Progression (whether it's just visual progression or power progression) in any kind of monetized game is bound to have problems since it's made to favour the people spending money but that's a given since games this big and polished need to make some kind of money. Free games either finds a middle ground between the paying and the free players or makes free player experience miserable Mihoyo seems like they're trying to find a middle ground which is fine, something like Elden Ring naturally have a better progression cause it costs 60$ and a complete game that doesn't require constant updates
I both love and hate this game and cant stop playing is this what people are talking about when they say welcome to gacha hell? This video sent chills down my spine as I realized that all the things I hate about it were done on purpose and I know I still want to keep playing. If you are thinking about playing this game just know that the people who love it the most also hate it the most if you have any doubt about you level of self control DO NOT PLAY.
The opening point was one of the dumbest I’ve ever heard, most games do require you to play the game to progress. Other than that there are fair criticisms. The points about how the game makes you spend money were also kind of dumb imo because the only real progression gate is from your account level, and you can’t spend money to level your account, that only comes form gameplay. The other points were pretty fair. Hoyo has pretty inconsistent storytelling without Shaoji (their main writer) at the helm. He was the reason Honkai Impact had such a beautiful story. why people don’t really like part 2 is because the writer changed and the new writer’s style is very different and makes the characters talk much more than they need to. Modern Hoyo games take a really long time setting the stage for something incredible, but the time leading up to that is sort of hit or miss.
thats not the only reason why many players dont like part 2. part 2 dont feel like honkai impact 3rd, it feels like another game. there is also the issue with a new s rank every patch, a ranks being invalidated.
My knee jerk reaction: I see mobile game, i go the other way. It's how these things are usually monetized. They should make money. They have to make a living too. It's just how: sleazy will they get? It's completely the opposite of what ads are supposed to do. And i wonder if that's what was intended? Audience marketing?
If you believe ZZZ and Hoyo gamers are predatory... you have seen nothing, especially because you can beat all their game being F2P, and I'm not defending them, they have placed stuff in there for you to spend you precious money and time on, but there are way worse F2P game monetization out there, these characters are literally optional.
Funnily Hi3 was made by the same people I believe, so it's confusing why zzz didn't make a similar combat style minus element aspects? Also you forgot WuWa's older sister game
@@wingedflyingforce5139 I don't think I have any right to talk about PGR, since I never played it. ZZZ is kind of dull in comparison to these two, in fact, it's just the same thing Hi3 was two or three years ago.
@@Iterator_SRS really? I always heard Hi3 had decent combat in the hack & slash space? Also, you should try PGR. A lot more thought goes into character design then Hoyoverse does (ignoring dance service), and the game play I would say imo is at LEAST one notch above this one (ZZZ). Wuthering seems to be a bit more focus on the pokemon-like aspect so far and feels currently a notch down in combat. But WuWa def has better combat than zzz atm
@@wingedflyingforce5139 Hi3 before was pretty dull, the abilities were slower, and you couldn't jump at all (now you can, in some cases). Or maybe I just stopped playing story and started actually enjoying the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fr, it makes me doubt the guy's opinions when he says he likes the tv segments and the combat. There's not a lot of depth to the combat, it's a lot of hand holding. You do the same combo until you hear the ding that tells you to dodge or switch out. Or you combo and they tell you when you need to swap characters to continue the combo. There's this illusion of control and skill.
Fair points. The thing is you're complaining that a gacha game is a gacha game. The model isnt going anywhere because it sells. Is it predatory?? For sure. But telling people "don't waste your time in this, play this other thing" is not going to change anything, because one of the hooks about these games is that there will always be something new in a few weeks. Gacha games are doing the inverse of what streaming platforms did with series. A full release game is like a full series being dumped to Netflix, everyone interested binge plays it and then discussion dies down after a few weeks. Ever wonder why people wringly mock single player games for being "dead" after a few months when thats just how things are supposed to be for those kinds of games?? Its because we unfortunately live in the age of social media. In this day and age, its not just about how much fun you can get in the game, how much you can get out of it OUTSIDE the game matters too. And gacha games, with its release schedule in installments drives interaction. People discuss about where the story is going, theorycraft about upcoming characters, and unlike regular games, you don't have to wait years before you get anything new in a feanchise you like (if it even gets a sequel). You KNOW that in 3 weeks or so you will get new developments in the story and new shiny characters that maybe can upset the current "meta". Gacha games are simply harnessing the model that made TV series so succesful for years, and monetizing the shit out of it. You talk about how you feel the game limits you in what you can do, while failing to see that as the game goes on and new characters get added, you slowly get that freedom to choose. Instead of a bunch of different weapons for a single character that you customize, given enough time you will be getting an endless array of different characters, each one with unique animations and mechanics, of which you can mix and match 3 of them however you like to make a team that you like. Hopefully they go with the Genshin model and don't have as much powercreep as the other HYV games tho.
A hot take from someone who has a strong disapproval for gacha games in general, Hoyoverse and ZZZ just happens to be under his prejudice and moral scope because the company has gotten too big, too quickly. Honestly, gacha originated from Japan, there are tens of dozens of Japanese gacha game companies out there existing for decades longer than Hoyoverse, but nobody want to talk about them because they're inconsequential, they're too small compare to Hoyoverse 🤣But remember! Hoyoverse was just miHoyo 6 years ago, a small indie studio of nobody but 6 post-grad students worth less than your average family restaurant around the street corner.
@@chiboy5567 Ah yes because liking a game = bootlicking As someone who heavily dislikes hoyo games, I actually found myself really enjoying ZZZ because of how straightforward and linear it is
In Genshin supposedly hype game title ending up Fallout 76 crowd loud applause wasted high expectations lazy methods ambitious game storytelling without pull characters to play elemental power invest important Characters over fun engagement momentum wasted milliseconds swift response tap or sound mash keyboard
the fact that they have become successful doesn't justify using predatory money/time spending methods to build it's entire fanbase, u could say I'm biased but I have 3 years of genshin and every daily login marked in zzz since the launch, i love the universe of those games and love that everything is connected, but their monetization structure is something i hate so much I wish I could play hacked versions just to enjoy fully the game without the FOMO shit or the gatekeeping with energy/resin that pisses me off, this stuff needs to be criticized, u CAN like a game without bootlicking
Enemys in genshin impact can only level gate if they can hit you. Dont let them hit you im level 20 ish and the area i went to had 25 to 30 lvl enemies but with my team i could destract them long enough to walk past
You can find tons of Stockholm syndrome gacha hell users, talking, arguing and defending their company/waifu/money Spent away. It's a slightly big quantity of people, really sad to watch, then we ask ourselves why bad politicians win and why tiktok/short dumb content is popular, it's because stupidity is real and the people that has it is not a minority, it's the common factor...
@@Jz-iah As an ex Overwatch fanboy I'm extremely offended by the state of the game after Jeff's departure. Dude, you should find another game, it's self-embarrassing to play Overwatch today.
Imma say it: Who was this video supposed to be directed to? Because it sure as hell wasn't directed to gacha players KEKW Nah, this video was directed to non gacha players Basically saying "Do not engage with this type of games" using ZZZ as a scapegoat because you clearly claimed to be a hater LMAO I enjoy the game, a bunch of people enjoy the game and are well aware of everything you stated in this video since the release of Genshin FOUR YEARS AGO. Trust me, you aren't getting people off the game, people will get off themselves if they don't like it or if they get bored of it AND THAT'S OK
To be fair to you, Hoyoverse games follow a very recognizable formula because it's been tested to work for years. They're not a new company at this point and has had over 10 years to perfect their craft. I don't agree that stat rail is a boring game. It has a boring beginning, but the more you play and the deeper you understand its mechanics, it's actually one of the most nuanced turn based RPG on the mobile market out there. There's also a very developed roguelike mode, moreso than most other games, that's almost like a separate game onto itself with full fledged mechanics that can provide hours of gameplay. ZZZ is new but the signs are there for it to become another Hoyo hit. The formula is noticeable at this point, but it works. I do agree, however, that it could have innovated more. The day night cycle doesn't offer much except superficial lock for quests and NPC spawn. The relationship building system is underdeveloped and uninspired. The world looks alive but is actually quite lifeless. The combat is one of the few good things for the game.
mihoyo basically hit the jackpot with their formula. the waifu appeal of the game, targeted at mobile phones audience, with gacha gambling monetizations. the unholly trinity basically. i stopped bothering with their games after 2 years in hi3rd. and i was never satisfied. didn't bother to look into their other "honkai" spin offs. i was close to get into zzz because the style and animation are top tier. but i was reminded by my experience in their previous title. also the huge game file is deal breaker on pc too, 110 gb for anime game with that few assets and chars? wtf is up with that
@Zeg-eh5ik Manipulating the thing called the toughness bar. Stat tuning specifically for speed to optimize rotation and have characters taking turns/multiple turns in the right order and before enemies. Knowing how to spend you skill point management. Different builds to shit your units to your specific playstyle. Tactical use of ults since they can be used whenever as interrupts allowing you to change the direction of an encounter on the fly. As well as opportunities to use the enemies attacking you to deal more damage back.
I would have agreed with the monetization bit a few years ago before playing gatcha games. But now: 1. I used to have to spend $100+ a month to not be bored. Now I spend nothing by rotating between gatcha games and old steam library; 2. The pressure to spend simply does not exist, at least for me; 3. The longer I play, the less I need to spend. Because resources accumulate and I eventually get a strong roster of characters And I don’t think zzz is a combat game. All Hoyo games are narrative games (may be the reason why I feel no pressure to spend?). The different combat systems are just the clothes they wear. About zzz itself, characters immediately likable. And I do think the story put them into interesting situations where they have to reveal something about them. And it’s 1.0, to say those characters don’t develop is an assumption on your part. If you don’t like the characters or the story, then it’s probably why you don’t like the game. But if that’s the case, then surely you wouldn’t feel the need to spend anyway?
I respect Gacha games because unlike a lot of other microtransaction laden games they tell extremely directly what they are upfront, nothing is hidden or obfuscated. Even the precise breakdown of all the drop rates and how the pulls works is in the game on the same page as the slot machine window. All told it creates a situation where you can decide right away if its for you or not. Can it be manipulative? can it be a skinner box or entrap those with predilections of gambling addiction? sure, absolutely, but so can any game with loot boxes, at least it also focuses on providing a game first, all of the real money stuff is regulated to pulling new characters or those characters weapons, as well as a super small handful of other things. Basically everything else in the game is free, available, and accessible to any player regardless of how much you've spent. For Genshin Impact i played for a bit to know it was a game i enjoyed, and rather spend and unknown amount of money to get the characters i want i just bought a pre-made account with all the character i would have sought. I made sure i had a strict budget of a regular game and i actually came in under quite a bit. While i have spent a small amount here and there since (about the amount of a second game) Ive mostly remained free and have still gained many new characters afterwards. It creates this atmosphere that despite it being a unrepentant casino slot machine game, it feels incredibly unmistakably *_fair_*__. You always know what it is, what your chances are, what you are getting, all the while you have access to a super large amount of actual _game._
You seem pretty fast to jump to conclusions without passing even first half of the game. First of all, not all characters are that bad, Koleda has a great own arc (although, she's probably the only character in the game with actual character depth, which still makes you right), there's Hollow Zero mode with roguelike elements and cards, which allows you for more character building outside of stat-jerking. Also, there's a third gacha with Bangboo's, and surprisingly (and for some weird reason), it's completely free and apart from mtx system. Other than that, I completely agree. Still more fun than most of the modern western games and has better monetization than OW2 and that's enough for me to stay for a while. P. S. My special kudos for MihoYo for spending their gazilions on BCI and Nuclear research instead of someone like Pete Parsons of Bungie on vintage cars for himself (amidst lay-off).
i feel like this is the first time bro dip their toes into a gacha game. well its an abyss that will pull your toes into the darkness. but still, its a free game and it has value. it takes strong mental fortitude gamer to not spend money though. still, its an enjoyable game.
Bro i get that we all have the right to have our own opinions, but if you're trying to compare this game to something, compare it to other gacha games. *Not* AAA *finished* titles. This *isn't* a finished game. Hundreds of gacha games *aren't* finished. Edit2: ALL gacha games (even outside miHoYo) have similar micro-transaction tactics. These manipulative tactics are everywhere. *NOT* just ZZZ.
But there's a difference between making money and wanting all the money in the world. Gacha aren't monetised equally and the mihomo is notorious for being merciless, stingy and deaf to the players' feedback. It would be nice if you showed some integrity as well, before criticising other people's take. Sure Humanless Furryzone Zero isn't a AAA but gacha games are taking over the world of gaming, they make more money than AAA whether you like it or not. They're becoming more and more mainstream. And if something becomes big, it's going to be compared to the biggest, that's how it works.
I think comparing games to the best things there are is fair game. I remember recently ubisoft, ea, and other big publisher-studio representatives being quite butthurt by elden ring and baldur's gate 3, saying that they are outliers and they can't be the standard, by which other games are measured. But it only showed the stagnation in game design and story development that these huge companies are in.
calling a game manipulative when none of the characters convinced you to grind or swipe is like calling someone smart when all their actions say stupid btw, simplicity isn't a problem when it's done for expanding (GGST, ZZZ) instead of homogenizing (PSO2 NGS, SFV). Sekiro wouldn't be as loved if simplicity on its own was a problem, and being a more complex game only hurt MK1's competitive scene but complexity = good while simplicity = bad is a very understandable trap to fall into 👍
It'd be stupid if the characters have ever asked you to grind or pull for them, that's not how manipulation works. You have to put them through action, and make them think its their own idea, that's a good manipulation. The most convincing way to put your idea into others is when you make them think it's their own idea. And complexity isn't equal to depth. GGST has a perk of being a fighting game, you can literally have a good fighting game with only two giant buttons that does Dive, and Kick, like Divekick and still be as deep as ocean. And while the game is much simpler, the Roman Cancel is deeper than ever, and the true depth of fighting game has always been the interaction between you and other player, not your control. Don't put Guilty Gear next to ZZZ. Depth = good, while shallow = bad, it's the bare basic of the good action game combat.
@@superpnutbutter8608 they mean the game can't manipulate you if none of the characters connected with you and btw, Sekiro is a simpler game and highly regarded while SFV is a simpler game and panned. nice job falling into the trap the OP mentioned though 🤡
@@AMEOWNGUS-lz4wm No offense, but are you stupid? At what part when I say simpler game is worse? Simple is the opposite of complex, and complexity isn't equate to depth. And yes, the game cannot manipulate you if you don't interest in it, the same way as poison cannot kill you if you're immune to it. It's still a poison, and it shouldn't exist.
@@AMEOWNGUS-lz4wm A simpler game isn't a worse game. Simplicity is the opposite of complexity, and complexity isn't equate to depth. Divekick literally has two giant button for jump, and for dive kick, and the game is as deep as ocean, no complexity, no bs, just dive, and kick. And a game so complex with no depth at all can theoretically exist. And saying the game cannot manipulate you if you're not connected, or not interest in it is like saying a poison cannot kill you if you're immune to it. It's still a poison, why do I offered it in the first place?
Honestly these days ever since i found this game called craft warriors where you make your own models i stop playing Gachas my a larg amount even though craft warriors is shut down sadly i can craft still and enjoy the models i make
There's too much hand holding in the combat to call it fun. There's one combo to everything, you dodge or swap when the enemy tells you they're attacking, you HAVE to swap mid combo when that pop-up appears. It's flashy but they give you the illusion of skill and depth with these systems.
I am really glad I never got into this industry of gaming. Gacha gaming looks so short term and unsustainable I just don't get the appeal on top of the grimey aspect that it's even more transparent it's about gacha companies all competing for your wallet than your time. The modern gaming industry does stink and also wants to make you spend rather than value your time but it's even more apparent with these titles and I just wish their depth was deeper than a pothole puddle.
What u said doesnt make u special whatsoever. And for ppl to defend something they like is perfectly normal even if what they like seems crazy to u. Go try arguing to Americans about gun, and u'll get just the same response if not stronger. In short, u're nothing, your opinion is also nothing. Our opinion is nothing. What u care? Who u care? I'll insult them and see if u dont feel the slightest feel to defend them. Hypocrite.
I pretty much agree with everything you said, it quite sad to see so many people not even questioning these design decisions. Being a Gacha game is not an excuse to not compare it to other games. I have been playing Genshin for almost 3 years, not really for the gacha mechanics but for the world building and lore that the game has, but even I can admit that the way ZZZ and Genshin approach storytelling is just lame sometimes ZZZ is like the jack of all trades but master of none. If you want better combat and story, you should definitely play Nier Automata, If you want better social aspects and a better written story, Persona 3, 4 and 5 is there for you. For me, these games should be played sometimes, when new content is available, if you stick to one for longer you will end up feeling burn out.
I play A LOT of Genshin Impact, I love Devil May Cry, so this game should be perfect for me, "BUTT" the Persona visual style but even more horni pulled me out of it cuz I'm sick of games that want so badly at selling themselves on sexual fanservice (yes, this annoys me too in Genshin). Also, to hell with furries
Its so rich that he said the game tells rather than show while in the same breath praises Persona 5. My brother and Christ, you just described Persona 5 too. That game tells the player everything they need to know too, including all of the hidden subtext so even little Timmy can understand. The game leaves no room for critical thinking or debating what the subtext is because it literally tells you. If this game is somehow is worse than Persona 5 at telling and not showing, man does this game fill some massive shoes.
So uh.. in general, I understand and can relate to your sentiment. But you've clearly barely put any time whatsoever into ZZZ and thus are talking a lot of nonsense which will end up spreading misinformation. If you want to cover and talk about microtransaction as a wider topic, you will probably find a better reception than basing your video essay on the newest, popular game that fits what you want to talk about - without actually putting any effort into getting to know the game you are featuring, and it's systems. I'm not saying none of your criticism isn't valid, but by making up shit (which could come down to literally not knowing any better) you are watering down your statements and opinions. Examples of this: You compare W-Engines to Artifact sets, this shows how "far" you actually progressed in ZZZ. Because ZZZ has its own version of Artifact sets, W-Engines are the equivalent of Weapons in Genshin or Light Cones in HSR. You also loosely state that in different moments that while you progress through ZZZ energy costs will increase/the grind will become longer/harder. The opposite is true and has always been, the higher your account rises in all Mihoyo games, the more Resources you will earn per Energy spent. And the base cost per farm attempt never rises to begin with. Just fyi, I play ZZZ casually and F2P. On another note, while you're not wrong that the initial introduction of characters highlights their most memorable trait, for better or worse, that you aren't aware that there's specific video tape "sidequests/stories" for nearly all the currently present cast of 5 star characters that allows you to learn more about them as well as the fact that, similar to the Persona games, you can invite characters of your choosing to a short outing each day, kinda hinders me from taking much of what you're trying to bring across seriously. That you don't enjoy the game is totally fair, but the least you could do is put some actual research into it.
The leveling and gearing in the mihoyo games is what kills them for me. I love the character designs and the stories the games tell, but the incessant chores, the bazillion different currencies, and the constant fomo turns an otherwise enjoyable game into a playable panic attack.
Well, he got more right than he got wrong. Ill give him that. ZZZ has fulfilled everything i wanted from it, so my experience with the game has been pretty positive. I loved that it got a day 1 PS5 release. Incredible, considering these kind of games typically start on PC/mobile and make their way to console after a couple months. Im still waiting for Wuthering Waves! Im always fown for a good grind, but plenty of games give you plenty to grind without much to gain from it. I have found the constant forward progression your account gets the more it ages to be a very rewarding kind of grind. Im gonna give Persona 5 a chance after watching this. Just to see what is so much better about it according to this guy lol.
you forgot to mention gane will only run good on phone designed to fight god but if you have mid range phone or old one you are screwd without at least cloacking them
You know it's fascinating because technically on paper I should really like everything about zzz. It has this Urban art style that reminds me of one of my favorite games jet Gray radio. It has actual interesting character designs and personalities. It's an action beat em up game and I love games like devil May cry and Bayonetta and I don't mind RPG or even microtransaction like progression if done right so you would think I would instantly want to download this... But what has put me off from this game honestly of its marketing. This game came out every UA-cam video I saw for a month had an ad for this game. All of the streamers that I knew were live streaming this game everywhere. I went this game with slamming me on my face screaming for me to buy it and that actually turned me away from it. Like I look back on games like elden ring and breath of the wild. Even annual shit like Call of Duty and I don't remember being attacked this much in marketing and usually if someone is really aggressively trying to market something to me that triggers a thing in my brain to tell me that they had something to hide and that there's a bad thing about it which is why they're pouring everything in the marketing. Ironically, if they hadn't aggressively marketed it the way it did, I would have probably downloaded and played this game. Food For thought.
U have to remember this game is FREE and costed multi millions to make how tf else are they supposed to recoup the money without you actually playing the game and potentially spending money lol out of all the other gotcha games this is the best honestly u only have to pay for characters everything else is grindable especially when they start to drop more event quests the game just came out there’s so much they can do this is just the beginning like do you u want a 60$ game for free like huhhh? 😭😭
Yeah, I assumed as much. I briefly considered playing this, but I absolutely detest the way Mihoyo treats its playerbase, and I'm a 7-year-old Azur Lane player, one of, if not the most F2P-friendly gachas out there. Playing this would only result in easily avoidable frustration; it's an easy pass for me. I do really like the way the game looks, though, I'll say that, but I cannot justify embarking on a ride with fucking Mihoyo at the wheel. I love Manjuu and Yostar exactly because they do the complete opposite of what most gacha developers do. All gachas are predatory in nature, but there's a limit I'm willing to compromise on, provided the rest of the game is good enough. I'm used to pulling every character on every banner with no money needed, not farming and spending for scraps. Disappointed but not surprised. Thank you for the video.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 reference??? Alright, I play ZZZ as a F2P player and I'm gonna keep playing it because I like the combat and the gameplay loop, but you're based for referencing XC2, so you get the like. I don't make the rules.
My problem with MiHoyo games is how they try to be both a mobile gacha game and a "real" game at the same time. This to me causes their games to fail to be good by the standards of either category. The only gacha game I've played and kept up with was Princess Connect Re:Dive from global release to shutdown (RIP) and what made it reasonable to keep up with was thr fact that doing dailies was really simple and quick. Then when I felt like it I could go watch the story in visual novel esque segments. MiHoyo games by comparison require a ton more effort for those dailies and it ends up turning into a huge grind, on top of that the story is integrated into the main quests making it hard to remember what was going on when there's days or weeks of grind between main quest completions. This makes it a bad gacha game. Combine that with stories that at least I find to not hook me in or honestly even make sense and gameplay that's very simplistic for the sake of functioning on a touchscreen (mash one or two buttons, switch character, repeat. And that's assuming you're not just relying on having big damage numbers), that makes it bad "real" game. It truly just makes for the worst of both worlds and I really can't fathom how people get hooked on these games.
Mihoyo games are the embodiment of boundless potential killed by boundless greed. I’d kill to see mihoyo make a premium experience without the garbage monetization they implement.
Yeah I wish these games weren't so predatory so that I might actually give them a try, but there are hundreds of better alternatives that don't waste my time and money. Quite a lot of them go on sale for $20 or less nowadays, so they're a better investment too. At the very least I can appreciate the art and music that they make for these games because they're no slouches in those departments, but yeah I'll pass on playing them.
Some people rush to defend their favouite gacha game because someone disagreed with their views and takes, instead of having a discussion they go straight to the shooting instead of making room for discussion.
Because his point just doesn’t get to me as a free to play player, I can play any hoyo game without a thought of money on my mind, it just gives me that this video is only made because it’s a gacha
WuWa looks enjoyable, and tower of fantasy captivates the mmo niche I crave with extensive character customization. Yet there will never ever be a day where I tell people to go play them
0:45 Honkai Impact 3rd from 2016 was the stepping stone for success in the market But of course, western players don't know this since want to ignored or hadn't done the research properly Since with the earnings of two years , created Genshin Impact and everyone was sleeping in their paid games for over 2.5 years 😒
Getting frustrated that a gacha game has horrendous monetization is like stepping into a casino and getting mad that there's gambling. These games are made to hook whales, not be fun for free players
> Sees a video about ZZZ. Brings up other Mihoyo games. Knows where this is going Now i have to wait a day when the youtuber decides to bring up Yostar Azur Lane and Soyny Fate Grand Order.
I played Genshin for a bit until I got through all of the story there was at that time and hit a power cap. No matter how much grinding I did, I couldn't get anything I needed: not the upgrade materials to level up my characters or the characters I wanted from the rolls. I even broke down and spent about $40 trying to get Klee... and all I got was trash. The burnout was fast and furious. MiHoYo games just feel bad to play on a spiritual level. They're tools of demoralization with cute anime girls as mascots. I just don't get the appeal.
It’s bros first gacha game
lil bro tried too hard to force his thesis to make a video essay
One can hope one never has his first gacha game. Isn't that the goal?
@@albert2006xptrue. I lost interest in genshin recently, but I still gotta log in daily...
Same with wuwa - loading screens are cancer, dailies therefore take way too much time.
there are other gacha games that do a lot better than zzz.
@@atnguyenuc1109they’ve probably also been out longer than zzz and actually had time to change which means you’re really not onto anything
i can argue about hoyo became the "most predatory". have you played another eden? atelier resleriana? if not, do some research about the two games and why japan gacha rarely got popular despite that many games they own. not only predatory but you need to play and grind a lot.
if we talk about gacha in general, yes it is what gacha is all about.. fomo. and that's why it is generally bad monetization if you wanted to maximize and not missing out some freebies.
for potential, yes i believe it can improve in many things, if hoyo wanted to or still within their vision of the game. as of now i can enjoy the game just fine. clearing stories and most content just using the 3 starters. no pay at all. but i agree, sometimes, it feels like bad idea of mixing all of those genre but saved by their cinematic battle and scenes.
i can enjoy the game if only the combat section of the game is the entirety of the game. The TV Section of the game is literally one of the worst and wasted game design ever. 57GB of download and 110GB of decompressing just to press and read texts on TV, i ain't wasting another time on that.
(yes i know i just said "the game" consecutively for 4 times in this comment)
@@a4arick106 well, i kinda love dungeon crawling game. the tv is good most of the time for me. been wanted to play games like that for a while. but sometimes it can be annoying since it tends to stretch and wasting a lot of time. too many things happened without us really seeing what happened. i love the tv gameplay, but they way they decide what happened on the tv sometimes turn me off.
That leaves us with one question: What is logically, the best gacha available? In terms of F2p, Game mechanics, etc...
@@darknessinc.Inc830 well, it's hard to decide. i mean gacha games are vast.. some seems we can pull often but you need hundred of dupes to maximize each characters which is tedious. out of games that i play, believe wuwa is still the best in term of gacha value. but as for the gameplay, it depend on each person... and it is hard to just rate the gameplay without considering the other aspect. but overall, i still prefer genshin over the others i have played. but in term of gacha, genshin sucks. not as much as atelier and another eden tho.
edit : oh, granblue fantasy is crazy good in term of gacha. they do not get much money tho.
While it is true that Another Eden is brutal in terms of pulls, that game has the decency of offering you viable free characters (especially Aldo who keeps getting buffed).
But in my opinion, the one gacha game that wants you to pull AND grind an ungodly amount of time for me is Guardian Tales. The amount of materials you need to farm to get ONE unique rarity character to max level is so crazy it makes you want to max out lower rarity characters to use them temporarily until the day you finally finished grinding.
Always remember in any monetized game, the companies hire, basically evil psychologists, to make their games as manipulative as possible, and it's a proven fact that the more time you spend playing a monetized game, the more likely you are to spend money on it. They're after you money, nothing else.
no its not, its just live services, we pay to buy live service that entertain and last long, its same as other entertainments
This is true of everywhere money is spent just most people have a barrier to entry with luxury spending that makes it easier for most to view it from the "outside".
It's the same psycho tricks that put 90% of the things you never touch in your home along with all those subscriptions and fast food containers in your trash.
People are always whaling, just it's according to the size of the pond (their income).
Me who has been F2P since Genshin's release in 2020: 🗿
@@fianilhampratama2313Se ha demostrado que empresas de videojuegos como servicios SI contratan a psicólogos.
Are you surprised they want to make money? Those games are for free and ofc they want to make people spend money but it's not an obligation so its cool and theres nothing that shady going on
I like this game and you're still right.
Mostly playing Zenless for the Aesthetic. Haven't seen characters this expressive, colorful, and fun since Xenoblade 2.
I feel like there is more characters depth than what is given credit for here, but its not found in the main story.
But yeah, if this wasn't a gacha game, it would be so much better.
Hey, Belobog's arc is pretty good.
"The characters have no depth to them"
Ironic to relate the time management to persona 5 yet didn't unlock the character hangout feature in ZZZ
Tbf.. holy shit why does it take until end of Chapter 2 interm for that
It might be quick to anyone with more than 6 hours to spare once at home but that's just not it for a lot of us
@@LunarEdge7 Because that's how most gacha games work ... they are made to have you spend as much time in it as possible (whether that's good or bad). Persona 5 is an already fully made game and gacha games are continuously updated over long periods of time and this is also Hoyo's first game like this ... I think
@@bankaimaster999 u forgot to mention that the content we have are like just the start of the game u havent even finished the most part of tutorials until second chapter
@silversoldier4545 a little information is dangerous they say. I guess there is no danger here since it just a game but the point still stands.
@@KauanEsmaniotto Yeah when it first came out I dropped it because the beginning was so insanely bloated it seriously felt worse than skyward sword for how long it locks away the games core features. Somehow I ended up playing it again and spending money fml.
This is all stuff I knew, but now I'm starting to realize how much I'm being mistreated compared to other games. This video inspired me to take a step back and away from this game and focus on other more tangible ones. Thank you.
i only know of it from the bouncy boobie ads, and i want to keep it that way.
Honestly valid
Then what ever you do don't look at one of the free 100 free pulls Ad
Amazing, you're avoiding a farming/gambling hole!
Nah fam join us in dept please 🥺
some fair takes,
a lot of the criticisms like short fights and "pushing square until it's time to push triangle" only apply to the early game and the game was explicitly designed with a very low entry and gentle learning curve to give people who aren't familiar with spectacle fighters a good way in
Fighting a boss for 6+ minutes in Shiyu where every move matters is certainly not brief, and the combat system very much holds up in higher difficulty. or rather, it gets better.
the movesets are only shallow if you try to play one character with some sidekicks, instead of a team with ~30 skills that interact and synergize in various ways
the character stories and some of their cinematics specifically focus on aspects of the characters that make them more nuanced and well-rounded instead of their main gimmick
game is predatory and grindy. it's a gacha, it comes with the territory
I take it as the cost of having high quality worlds and stories that keeps growing and developing for years and for free
But it does prey on the vulnerable
When playing an gacha the ones who do already know what they are getting into, it's just simply being intelligent with your resources that will make you not dump your entire wallet to the drain because you couldn't stop doing singles on every banner that appears.
People simply dont have the patience to do so, therefore they fall into the trap.
Save up the summoning currency for more than 1-2 month (or up to 4-6 if you are actually that patient), then dump everything in a banner that has an character you absolutely want to get, then get alot of others as random A-S classes.
And if they want to actually spend, wait for discounts that are worth it.
That's at least how gachas should be handled with
"People here live in poverty. It's a slum, it comes with the territory." Should you accept that? Shouldn't you change something?
And it's not worth it, it has to be a masterpiece for the amount of souls people have sold, but it's not, and will never be. The game is so expensive that they need to play safe with everything, and doesn't allow them to take any risks that required for the masterpiece to be born. And the game is not free, it costs you your soul, your time; a similar game like this that's cheaper is Persona 5, at least this game costs you money. Pay with your money, not your soul.
The shallow combat, in the video he's already explained that it becomes wider the more you progress, not deeper like a good game should.
The movesets are shallow in comparison to other good games in the genre.
Play Devil May Cry once, and you'll know how terrible ZZZ is.
The gaming industry bubble keeps getting bigger, and bigger. Not sure if it'll affect the mobile side, but I sure hope it will. Gacha game is a bad business model, not in terms of virtue alone it's bad for the market, bad for the capitalism - capitalism is a lasting business, not this quick cashgrab - and I hope it dies.
@@superpnutbutter8608why do you keep trying to compare a mobile game to AAA titles? Not every game needs to be at those levels. You are pretty much over reacting about how you “pay with your soul” it’s so corny. People are playing the game cuz they want to, so just let them.
@@vernal5545 The pay with your souls part is a reference to Rick and Morty where people buy "free" stuffs with consequences, and Rick open a shop across the road and advertise it "pay with your money, not your soul" I know people won't get the reference, but I think it's fitting.
Minecraft, Terraria, Deadcells, Stardew Valley, WitchSpring, Bloodstained:RotN, etc. are all available on mobile (WitchSpring is originally a mobile game, even) Gacha games have no excuses for being so predatory just because they're mobile games.
These predatory core design is not even about being fun, that's outer layer, instead they aims toward milking money. That's why the good games I mentioned are better, because they make a good game first, money second.
And you don't even need a good hardware to make a fun game, I could probably run Vampire survivor on my printer, but the game is amazing.
And I'm not overreacting, I hate how manipulative it is. Genshin is number one because it's the best at hacking your brain to keep you playing, not because you enjoy it, but it becomes your job. And I'm so sick of a game like this. Especially when it succeeds because of how manipulative it is, not the game is good.
@@superpnutbutter8608 Can honestly agree on this sentiment of if you've played other games of the "hack and slash" Genre to where these mobile Gacha games tries to emulate you just can't even get invested to it because of what could've been.
Legit I'm very aware that I've hold gachas like this to unreasonable expectations or standards but can you even blame me in that regards? They have the the tool to do so yet they chose not to which is seriously a shame but it is what it is.
Until a "Gacha" can capture that feeling of DMC, MGR, Bayonetta, etc. (other than Uktrakill or the upcoming soon hit game that can captures it that being V.A. Proxy) then honestly it's just a pass and I'll take my time on something "more important" or captures my interests you could say.
simplicity in the gameplay, is designed intentionally with new characters in mind. If they can focus on one core combo, with some side combos and abilities, as well as just have numbers and what not, then they can do a lot of new characters... which in a Gacha is very important.
New characters are a constant, it's the lifeblood of a gacha. It's how they keep money rolling. And trying to balance new characters to be unique, new, and not powercreep other characters is going to be a careful balancing act.
They might in the future offer some sort of limit break to characters (the game is JUST released, it's still a baby and the story doesn't get you to the max level yet), that will expand on this but Gacha is what drives literally every aspect of the game.
ZZZ is manipulating you, yes. It's literally gambling.
I'm just a sucker.
While I can understand the perspective for someone who just finished Chapter 1, I think it's a disservice to the game to treat it like this because there's a lot more beyond.
There's a lot of combat content that unlocks later to balance out the story: combat ratio, with different game modes for you to bring your characters and combat understanding to the test. Hollow Zero, Combat commissions, Hard mode story battles, Shinyu Defense etc. It's not a difficult or complex game by any means, but the combat is fundamentally satisfying and you can do a lot of it later on and there's a lot you can explore to be better and flashier, through actively controlling character switching rotations, animation cancelling, planning out status effects to trigger Disorder, and enemies start to have more interesting quirks than just "press the switch button when a golden flash appears", Chapter 3 boss is a great example.
But what has to be the best thing that this game does that gets completely thrown under the bus in this video is its worldbuilding and characters. You mentioned that the characters aren't expanded upon but that's because it's only the first chapter and they aren't explored yet. Nekomata for example gets a story quest dedicated to her and it fleshes out her character way beyond the scope of the story quest. None of the Cunning Hares trio's pasts have come into play yet but you can get little hints everywhere in their dialogues about past events that drove them where they are now. The worldbuilding is absolutely fantastic if you actually try to engage with it, you mentioned that there is no reason to explore on your own and it couldn't be more wrong. You have the social media posts on the Inter-knot that cover many different details about the world in an organic way, and a ton of different NPCs all with their own individual stories and progression that you can totally miss if you just chase after the next red objective.
There are so many interesting random interactions and little meaningful stories to see around the world that I genuinely had a session with this game where I just ran around for hours listening to NPCs, and as a player who played many JRPGs for like over a decade now there were few games that can make me feel something similar. Closest one is probably the Trails series. This is the aspect that cut this game above every other gacha game for me. You want actually serious topics well look no further than some of the side quests in Chapter 2, especially the Detective one, whoever played it will know what I'm talking about.
I don't exactly the defend the game's slow progression but for the love of god can everyone attempt to review something like this after actually experiencing everything it has to offer at launch. I feel like most of the negative ZZZ videos tend to be from early game players who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the point they stopped at is where they have seen everything, where some of the mechanics like being able to interact with playable characters around the world randomly are introduced as late as Inter-knot Level 30+.
Not so sure about Keno story quest fleshing out her character that much. Imo it's just another mediocre content block to complete with bloated dialogue
I agree. At first i wasn't too engaged with the story and overworld character interactions but after some sessions i went back and payed more attention to the narrative and it's good honestly.
This is pure souls and fighting game bias but i would like to have a Block button XD (the B and LT button on combat are unused i think) , sometimes i like to play hollow zero for example with one agent only and would be nice to have a second chance if you screw up the perfect dodge timing and mitigate the damage or hell, even parry the sh*t out of the enemies attack when timing properly. It could expand a little more the combat system.
Other thing that i would like is a versus mode, which i won't expect it to be balanced but at least it could be a nice addition.
Could be fun to fight against or heck, even alongside friends in a team battle mode or something with all the crazy stuff going on.
Almost every complaint, particularly about the characters' depth, is resolved if you playing. This dude didn't see any of it. He didn't even get to trust events, which is the social link equivalent
Bro didn't even unlock bangboos
i kind of disagree with the part where the characters don't have much depth because there are character quests and character demos and trailers which make up for the stuff that isn't shown but you are right that it doesn't have enough depth
another thing is W engines are actually the weapons of genshin equivalent
The game has the depth of a puddle
@@zerotoanime3953 the goal definitely isn’t stated or shown right off the bat but could you tell me what you think makes it so shallow?
what are y’all even looking for in a 2 week old online-service game? do you guys think this is the finished product or something? they have more than enough time to expand upon anything in the game including characters, story, narrative etc. that has always been the case for these games
also imo their simplistic or almost comical characterization is by design and they don’t take most of the things seriously overall, just look at the cutscene animations, do you calculate the physics or evaluate physiological accuracy in their movements? no. it’s not that deep.
if you want a gritty, dramatic, edgy-toned game then ZZZ isn’t what you’e looking for
@@f.b.lagent1113 well said
@@tokosho4708 as you can see, he can't tell you why cause he's just a hater
The argument towards the end of the video implying that Hoyo games, ZZZ in this case, require "time and money" is not true. Not only is all the content completable F2P, once you are through the main story campaign, the time the game asks of you is minutes at most. The daily routine is maybe 5-10 minutes. This is much faster than most live service games. In fact, the main problem I have with this video is your lack of information, and how most of these criticisms are obviously coming from a place of dislike for the live service model in general. The idea of consistently logging in to make more progress, and the game incentivizing you to do so everyday with various means, is not even remotely something unique to gacha games.
I am all in favor of criticizing this model of making money, but it would help if you actually presented the correct information. In your description of ZZZ's gacha, you call the "W-Engines" (A.K.A, weapons) "W-drives" then imply that what you are pulling in the gacha is the equivelant to artifacts in Genshin. That's just wrong. Compared to their other games, despite what you said, you effectively are getting the same items you would in HSR or Genshin. Moreover the drops for "4 stars" in ZZZ are actually higher. There are some other points that make it a bit better, but it's not relevant. However, if you are going to criticize this games monetization you should have your information correct.
My other issue is your take on the combat. Hoyo games have simple gameplay, and depth through team composition/character kits. I'm not going to act like it's the most complex 5head 4d chess game ever, but in the endgame of their games, well built teams with decent gameplay are required assuming you are not P2W. Instead of unlocking new skills or playstyles for characters, you instead use other characters to compliment their kit and unlock new ways to play the game. Learning how to optimize your rotations between enemy attacks, juggle your buffs to line up with your DPS character, there's a lot of considerations to make at the higher levels. Though, I agree the early game is much too easy. "Challenge mode" should actually be... a challenge.
Your argument against the game seems to mostly come down to criticisms of the gacha system, that it ruins the gameplay experience, and that the live service model damages the game. I would say that all the content, with the exception of a singular biweekly rotating end game mode, is almost completely unaffected by the gacha or live service model. You can play through all the story, extra game modes, etc. simply by going through it like any single player game.
What you are missing is that this games gacha or live service model does not pray on all players equally. That is not why the systems in their games are so devious. The issue is that the game is otherwise F2P friendly, and functions as a singleplayer game. This lowers the guard of players, and makes them more likely to be forthcoming to spend. Moreover, people who are very susceptible to FOMO will feel as if they are forced to spend so they don't miss the new character, despite the fact that they would be more than fine without them. It is an illusion of "needing" something vs it being required and affecting the game.
If you had focused on this, I would agree with you a lot more. As someone who plays these games, I understand they are predatory, and it's not something I want to defend. However, if you are going to criticize them, understanding why they are bad and what the context is *around* it's payment model is really important.
Yeah this game respects you're time far more than other hoyo games especially genshin, guarenteed boss drops and I don't have to worry about a 0.5% chance to get one drop of a sub boss item that I need 5 of to finish maxing out one of my abilities, crap like that killed any interest in genshin for me
the slightly problem is that it's just an MMO farm game behind a gacha and with frenetic visuals but TUFF enemies...
While you make some valid points about the game’s time and money requirements, I believe there are some nuances you might be overlooking.
Firstly, the argument that ZZZ requires significant time and money isn't purely about the absolute time or money spent, but about the psychological tactics these games employ. The game might only need a few minutes a day for dailies, but the constant need to log in and keep up with daily tasks can create a feeling of obligation, which can be stressful for some players. This is a common trait of live service games and gacha mechanics.
Regarding your point about all content being completable as a free-to-play (F2P) player, it's true that dedicated F2P players can complete most content. However, the gacha system is designed to create a sense of urgency and desire for new characters and weapons, which can lead to spending. The difference in drop rates or item names (like W-Engines vs. W-drives) is less important than the underlying system that encourages spending through psychological manipulation.
On the topic of combat, while Hoyoverse games do offer some depth through team composition and character kits, they often rely on repetitive mechanics. The need to optimize rotations and buffs is a layer of strategy, but it doesn’t necessarily make up for the overall simplicity of the combat system. Additionally, the early game’s lack of challenge can be a significant drawback for new players looking for a more engaging experience from the start.
Your point about the game’s gacha and live service model not affecting most of the content might be true in a technical sense, but the constant introduction of new characters and items, and the fear of missing out (FOMO) it generates, can heavily impact player enjoyment and satisfaction. This manipulation of FOMO is particularly concerning as it targets vulnerable players who may feel pressured to spend to keep up.
Lastly, while the game might be F2P friendly on the surface, the deeper issue is how it gradually encourages spending. The subtle pressures and inducements to spend, even if not immediately apparent, are what make these systems predatory. Players might not need to spend money to enjoy the game, but the design encourages it in ways that can be detrimental over time.
@@joaochrystello5869 I agree with a lot of what you have to say here, and I probably could have been more clear when it came to the nuances, however I don't see them as being particularly relevant in this situation. My main point was to point out that the criticisms being levied at the game were misrepresentations of the game that were obviously from a place of misunderstanding.
For example, his comment about the time investment/money investment was an implication that the game required a lot of those things. It's just a fact that it doesn't, especially in comparison to other live service games. You can argue that dailies give you a sense of obligation to login, and I would agree, however this is a criticism of live service games as a whole, like you say. Criticizing the game for this as if it's unique to the game, outside of the context of this being very common in the live service industry, is disingenuous to me. Within the context of live service games, the daily grind for ZZZ, and most gachas by proxy, is much faster than most. It's that way by design, and is such why I took issue with that claim.
I completely agree that the gacha is inherently designed to create a sense of urgency based on the desire for players to experience new characters, and its a fair caveat to include. However, in this context, my point was to debunk the idea that money is required to beat anything in the game, so I didn't find it particularly relevant to the discussion. Regardless of how the game encourages you to spend, it doesn't change the fact you can still complete everything fairly easily F2P.
As for combat, I can't disagree really. It's a matter of taste, I like the "simple to learn, but there's depth to master if you want" type of combat. It being simple isn't inherently a bad thing as far as I am concerned. Though I do agree that the game being too easy early on can put people off, that's why I mentioned that challenge mode should actually be somewhat difficult.
In regards to the business model not affecting the game, most of what you said here I already mentioned. I agree with you entirely that FOMO can affect the overall enjoyment of the game, and that it affects certain people differently. I probably could have made that more clear.
Your last point about the game being F2P friendly on the surface while gradually encouraging spending, is also basically what I say at the end of the comment. "This lowers the guard of players, and makes them more likely to be forthcoming to spend." is specifically a criticism of the subtle pressure and manipulation that the game applies to you. I could have made it more clear though, because again, I agree with the last part of your reply wholeheartedly.
I definitely did leave some nuances out, but mainly on the basis that I felt they weren't entirely necessary to the point of my comment, which was to illustrate that this person didn't actually understand the problems with the game.
A big problem with his video is he wanted an excuse to make the typical “gacha bad” video. It’s clear he didn’t even finish the first chapter as none of his footage is after the part where they get to 13th Street. So his complaints make no sense.
“THE COMBAT IS TOO SHALLOW WHICH IS WHY YOU PLAY IT FOR A MINUTE” So you didn’t get to Shiyu Defence or Hallow Zero which are longer than a minute. He didn’t fight the Dead End Butcher who will clap you if you are trying to just press buttons.
“WHY DONT THEY TALK ABOUT HOMELESS” If you played to Chapter 3, you’d know the critical detail wasn’t the homeless, but the explosive plan (as Vision was using the explosives to unearth Sacrifice). The game doesn’t elaborate on it because it doesn’t need to. Homeless people exist in the real world so the game in its urban setting doesn’t need to.
He played the game for a few hours to complain about gacha. Even in that section, he got things wrong. IT DOESNT EXPLAIN ANYTHING except the game explains the entire thing and straight up gives you the odds. The only secret it keeps is soft pity which is to the players benefit. That’s fine if you want to bitch about gacha, but maybe he should play more of the game if he wants to actually criticize it.
Sounds like your first mihoyo game
idk man. I’ve been playing ZZZ for a while now and I don’t feel at all inclined to buy anything from it
it does get a little grindy, probably because there’s not a lot of content at the end of the game. So actual story elements are split up more and more by leveling up your character. But I don’t find that too hard to even consider spending money for it, or getting a specific agent that I want. Realistically the game can be completed without pulling for characters ever, and just rolling with the characters the game gives you.
and at the end of the day, it’s a really fun game that’s mostly free, and the micro transactions are barely needed
A few things I feel like haven't been brought up.
1. The game's characters should be viewed less like characters in dmc and more like the individual weapons of the kits. Ala dante's different swords and guns. No one character is going to have massive move sets because they aren't meant to. The move sets together are supposed to make up your full kit. And if you aren't enjoying that kit that you made, you need to experiment.
2. The game JUST came out and as yucky as I find the concept, the hoyoverse games are live service models. They aren't meant to be full packages up front but stories that expand as they go. That being said I do think that they do that worse here than genshin or HSR did. Both of those games had pretty great opening acts that, while feeling complete left a good amount of intrigue. ZZZ's didn't, it felt like there was supposed to be at least 2 more chapters upfront but they pushed it out the gate early.
3. It's a gacha game, the monetization is obviously predatory. Either exercise self restraint, be a whale, or don't play. I hate it, I really really do because I'd love to recommend the game tomore people but I have to be conscientious of who I recommend to because I know that not all my friends are capable of impulse control.
1. This is correct, however in practice they are still marketed as individual characters, which at face value, will still set the expectation that they are meant to have depth, i.e. a fully fleshed out kit. Instead, one can only reasonably expect shallow parts of kits you need to cobble together when you see a party based gacha game..... for the billionth time... -_- This point has been dismantled.
2. Terrible delivery cannot be excused by saying "it's a live service bro". This point is null and void, not worth the (further) effort to dismantle.
3. If you want to point out something is obvious, be my guest. But you're criticizing the guy for having pointed this out ,which it sure looks like it given the follow up, I will have to point out that no matter how obvious something is, being normalized doesn't absolve it from being objectively bad. Rather than this being a non-issue, it's instead a very deeply rooted severe problem with the games industry that must be solved, ideally by any justifiable means necessary. This point has now been dismantled as well.
Just because a game is technically free to play , doesn't ever mean playing it should be unrewarding, shallow and with psychological trickery, bundled with deception via framing of things.
Lol dude I hate Mihoyo a lot but we need to start hating it for the right reasons. Your vídeo sucks to enforce any type of good criticism except the general consensus that gacha games are predatory for individuals who are easily affected by gambling and chance games. ZZZ is not perfect but its a far cry from what you are advertising. Next time, if you really want to push your agenda, bring some better arguments
1st time playing a mobile gacha game eh?.
And that is a good thing. If he can see it how bad it is, compared to dumb shills, its a good take.
1st time is already too many times.
I play on PC... for zero dollars. Main story in these games doesn't require grinding, gacha, or daily log-in. Free high budget anime visual novels, with good gameplay elements, great art, and banger soundtracks? Sign me up. Thanks whales for giving me games to play! (spend responsibly)
Bruh, it's okey, it's your time and taste :')
Yeah I get it but at the same time it's up to you if you want to play this game or a complete game. Everyone who knows anything about Mobile/Live Service knows they will be shut down one day. If that's a turn off then yeah play something else.
I'd rather get manipulated in a soft way with a gacha than whatever is going on with the AAA game industry at the moment.
Preach. Also, frankly, what's here is really low-key compared to most gachas, even honkai impact 3 which this game is heavily inspired by. It's most just an energy system and pull currency.
"Whatever is going with the AAA industry"
There's always been good AAA games and bad AAA games. If you think that you are forced to choose between only the bad AAA games and the gutter tier coomer slop mihoyo puts out then that's just you being misinformed. The video itself even mentions stuff like DMC V and P5R, 2 fucking amazing games that you owe to yourself to play if you enjoy the slop that is ZZZ since those are the games that this sorry excuse of gacha slop tries to emulate.
I mean its pretty much the visually improved version of HI3rd
I ve been playing gacha games for a long time if any of you know a game called summoners war to zenless zone zero . Sometime i wonder why i play even when i am not enjoying the game , for some reason i kept playing the game , this video give me a different perspective from someone who actually play a quality game . Just like what you said its a treadmill, the longer you play gacha games the harder it becomes to quit gacha games because of sunk cost of fallacy , When you want to quit, you question yourself why quit when you already give so much time and effort , i am gonna play a quality game in steam , thank you for this video
I like Genshin Impact, but not for its characters or its stories (I have done very little story content). What I like it for is world exploration. Every time they release a new part of the world, I am incentivized to return to explore a little more and see a little bit more of that amazing world they have built. (and Teyvat is amazing.). I also enjoy just wandering through that world and visiting its beautiful cities, towns, and villages.
TBF story is also pretty good of Genshin, but the text based storytelling is just plain boring.
Genshin’s lore is S tier, story telling though is mid
Although you have a fair point with how the characters are upgraded how in the face the micro transactions are. I have a feeling you may have not put that many hours in when this video was made. As when the you finish the current story and start to explore mid to late game most of your points about enemy encounters, character friendship meters and npcs in the game world are slightly behind most of the examples that were given. Sadly they don't really show until, at least for me, the 40 hr mark. But you have your opinions and I have mine as I'm enjoying it with only spending money on the battle pass.
Dude that over-explaining in the dialogue is my #1 pet peeve anime trope. Like are you trying to conduct a filibuster here?
i'm very glad i watched this first as i knew what kind of game it is, but youtube just does not stop flashing it in front of me. i was starting to think, "i guess i'll look at what it has" knowing that they will throw 20 pop ups to take my money. we work hard to play the games we love but for the games to expect and be built to have us work for them is an entire different story.
I understand some of your issues, but I think its a mistake to compare the game to games that are complete - Persona 5 for example. How much do we really learn about our companions in the first chapter of P5, vs by the end of the game? You're comparing the entire journey of P5 with ZZZ, and right now, ZZZ is in its first chapter. Give it some time to develop its story, to return to characters, and then see how things are. It could very well remain basic and one-note, but perhaps it may not. Maybe see how it is in a year or two..?
Gacha games rarely actually develop their characters. It's mostly like one few hours quest for a banner character and then go forward to the next character they need to sell.
Thanks for the video, I thought it was interesting and honest.
The goal of this comment is to provide constructive feedback.
You are correct for the most part you in your analysis about gatcha games in general, but make some statements and comparisons about the game that are either uninformed or misguided.
I felt similarly about the game: There is not much to do in the City, dialogue drags on, and the game, while pretty, lacks gameplay depth to keep me interested. This is all true.
Then I got to Chapter 2 Interlude.
This is where the gameplay actually expands. New modes are added that are genuinely engaging. These include, but are not limited to, a Boss fight mode to improve your characters you can only play 3-times per week, and a Roguelike dungeon system that changes how you play and strategize each time.
Additionally, you can hangout with 3 agents you have unlocked per day. This let's you build "Trust" that eventually unlock unique overworld and dungeon quests tailored around that specific character and other rewards including a new dynamic wallpaper of that character when you press the pause button in the City.
20:08 "What's present is a poor excuse for a gameplay loop." You are correct if you are talking just about Chapter 1 and the start of Chapter 2. However, I would argue the interesting gameplay loop does not appear until the end of Chapter 2.
You are correct about the monetization. However, I believe it is misunderstood: Hoyoverse games entice players who A) seek a personal yet parasocial relationship with characters, and B) want to optimize clear times and build the best, strongest, fastest teams. If you spend nothing on this game, you are be able to comfortably progress through the main story with the free characters you get by investing resources in only them and playing on the Normal, non-Challenge-Mode difficulty. However, if you want to invest in every character to either 'befreind' them or beat the hardest missions the fastest, that's how they can get you, and you are right that it is dangerous for those players who struggle with loneliness, gambling, or other related issues.
Also, this game has distinct advantages over the games you recommend. 1, it's free. If a player buys P5 or Nier Automata and they don't like it, refunding is a hassle if it's even an option. And 2, it's designed to be played on phones, and its daily missions can take as short as 5-10 minutes, depending on how much you want to do. Weekly missions, yes these are more of a time sink. But that is really only for those who want to become more invested in the game; you aren't missing out otherwise.
Overall, Chapter 1 is designed for people who are not gamers. It is simple because it's trying to reach an audience that would not play action/fighting games because they percieve it as too difficult. So yes, the game is missing features at this point because it's still trying to get players hooked on the game first before in opens up new areas, characters, and gameplay challenges.
For comparison, your argument against ZZZ's gameplay sounds like someone analyzing Persona 5 just after leaving Kamoshida's palace for the 3rd time (when you save Ann) and claiming the gameplay does not improve beyond that point. You know as well as I do that such an argument would be simply wrong, because the gameplay expands massively afterwards. However you are not wrong about how you described your gameplay experience, because that was *your* experience, mine as well. But I promise if you played a bit longer, it improves substantially. My few characters are only at level 30, and I'm not in a rush to get too far past that.
And the game is literally in 1.0. Of course it will receive a plethora of new content that will be engaging and entertaining and address key problems many players have brought up.
I recommend watching their roundtable discussion with the Street Fighter 6 directors, pretty insightful.
That's about it. Thanks for reading, and have a blessed day!
I agree with you, but there are some things you’re wrong about. For example, I play 4 gacha games: ZZZ, HSR, GI and WW and honestly I used to have this problem where I would spend a lot of time on games in general, but people can get out of that phase. In my opinion it all comes down to the person themselves, I mean when it comes to spending money and spending time on games. In a sense, maybe it really does force you to, but like I said it depends on the person. And if it truly brings you joy, no matter what it is that brings you that joy, then it isn’t really wasting time. Of course, there should be some limits on how much time a person spends on a game, but yeah. Oh, and also, A FELLOW PERSONA 5 FAN LET’S GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Someone please explain to me why Hoyo games are considered really predatory as a gatcha game, I have played so many gatchas since 2014 before Genshin, and literally nearly 90% of the games are ridiculously grim for F2P with only few exception games that are nice to F2P.
Like even the ones that still exists, SMT Dx2 and FGO are still ones that are up that are ridiculously less generous than the newer games.
There were a lot of games without pity systems and majority of the older games really require you to pay to really get somewhere, I honestly feel like we're living in a time where these gatcha games do give more to F2P players than before where we used to not get much.
I can name other classics like Rage of bahamut, Million Arthur, many of which just where the whales really kept those games alive.
Western games like Injustice and Marvels are even worse where you really don't get anywhere unless you spend. I get that Hoyo games makes you feel like you want to spend, but overall it's a choice, they still give you loads to do content and earn stuff compare to any other gatchas before Genshin.
Because all gacha is predatory. The business model is built around hooking in whales with poor impulse control who can get baited by the fact that nothing has a clear price tag, they'll just have to keep spending until the slot machine rolls what you want. Before they know it they've ruined themselves financially. And this is what subsidizes the game and keeps it running for every F2P player, it only feels fair to you because someone else is bankrupting themselves to pay for it.
I don't care if XYZ game is even worse. The lesser evil is still evil.
@missingno_fgc thank you for your explanation. I mainly just wanted to understand because in the past gatchas have been a lot worse and so far in my perspective has gotten way better where you can progress as a F2P player. But yeah, it's still bad that this practice is in place. I'm mainly questioning since people seem to make it sound like Hoyo set this trend that made gatchas predatory which it isn't true as it was always there before but worse
@@MichonTMBecause popularity and the big CHUNKS of money they are making with the gambling beauty addicts
I find it funny you make this video yet you do Raid Shadow Legends sponsor bits
I literally got an ad for this game
On this video 😭😭😭
Aren't games in general literally about progression. Of course there's grinding to upgrade your character to progress further.
You don't really have to spend money to enjoy the game, but it's true they do make it inciting to spend money. I think its just gacha games in general, not just ZZZ. Your whole argument about the game is time consuming and encourage spending money should be towards the gacha game in general or literally mobile games these days. Take this as an example, FC Mobile (by EA lol). Its not a gacha game but they literally share the same system with zzz. Battlepass, packs with high ovr (inciting people to spend money just like gacha) and lots of grinding and probably even worst, video ads to get points for progression in the event.
I just think the hate about the game being too demanding and needs money to "progress" or feels satisfied shouldn't be pointed towards zzz alone. Its much more about the Mobile industry itself. I guess its the only way to make mobile games much more appealing. Maybe its just live service game in general
It is literally just a live service model thing, well checking this guy's last video it's pretty much obvious this is just another live service bad situation
@@kskr8610yes exactly
Progression (whether it's just visual progression or power progression) in any kind of monetized game is bound to have problems since it's made to favour the people spending money but that's a given since games this big and polished need to make some kind of money. Free games either finds a middle ground between the paying and the free players or makes free player experience miserable Mihoyo seems like they're trying to find a middle ground which is fine, something like Elden Ring naturally have a better progression cause it costs 60$ and a complete game that doesn't require constant updates
I both love and hate this game and cant stop playing is this what people are talking about when they say welcome to gacha hell? This video sent chills down my spine as I realized that all the things I hate about it were done on purpose and I know I still want to keep playing. If you are thinking about playing this game just know that the people who love it the most also hate it the most if you have any doubt about you level of self control DO NOT PLAY.
He’s not wrong about a lot, but he’s also not right, maybe lil bro needs to wait till the game has been out a while or actually catch up to it
grind in a game so it's like you never played a game before.
all of your points can apply to any game
i think you didn't gave those games a fair shake
The opening point was one of the dumbest I’ve ever heard, most games do require you to play the game to progress. Other than that there are fair criticisms. The points about how the game makes you spend money were also kind of dumb imo because the only real progression gate is from your account level, and you can’t spend money to level your account, that only comes form gameplay. The other points were pretty fair.
Hoyo has pretty inconsistent storytelling without Shaoji (their main writer) at the helm. He was the reason Honkai Impact had such a beautiful story. why people don’t really like part 2 is because the writer changed and the new writer’s style is very different and makes the characters talk much more than they need to.
Modern Hoyo games take a really long time setting the stage for something incredible, but the time leading up to that is sort of hit or miss.
thats not the only reason why many players dont like part 2. part 2 dont feel like honkai impact 3rd, it feels like another game. there is also the issue with a new s rank every patch, a ranks being invalidated.
@@yvindvego9404 yeah, part 2 feels very much like a modern hoyoverse game. Which is unfortunate
I honstly refuse to even pick up a gacha game if the game just paywalls my way thru it im just going to drop it right away.
Listen man, I'm just here for the animation
8:10 witch time? No, no, no. I think you meant to say…. *”Flurry Rush…”* _Queues The Legend of Zelda Theme._
My knee jerk reaction:
I see mobile game, i go the other way.
It's how these things are usually monetized. They should make money. They have to make a living too.
It's just how: sleazy will they get?
It's completely the opposite of what ads are supposed to do. And i wonder if that's what was intended? Audience marketing?
If you believe ZZZ and Hoyo gamers are predatory... you have seen nothing, especially because you can beat all their game being F2P, and I'm not defending them, they have placed stuff in there for you to spend you precious money and time on, but there are way worse F2P game monetization out there, these characters are literally optional.
Calling ZZZ combat good makes me feel like you've never played Hi3 or WuWa.
Funnily Hi3 was made by the same people I believe, so it's confusing why zzz didn't make a similar combat style minus element aspects?
Also you forgot WuWa's older sister game
@@wingedflyingforce5139 I don't think I have any right to talk about PGR, since I never played it. ZZZ is kind of dull in comparison to these two, in fact, it's just the same thing Hi3 was two or three years ago.
@@Iterator_SRS really? I always heard Hi3 had decent combat in the hack & slash space?
Also, you should try PGR. A lot more thought goes into character design then Hoyoverse does (ignoring dance service), and the game play I would say imo is at LEAST one notch above this one (ZZZ). Wuthering seems to be a bit more focus on the pokemon-like aspect so far and feels currently a notch down in combat. But WuWa def has better combat than zzz atm
@@wingedflyingforce5139 Hi3 before was pretty dull, the abilities were slower, and you couldn't jump at all (now you can, in some cases). Or maybe I just stopped playing story and started actually enjoying the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fr, it makes me doubt the guy's opinions when he says he likes the tv segments and the combat. There's not a lot of depth to the combat, it's a lot of hand holding. You do the same combo until you hear the ding that tells you to dodge or switch out. Or you combo and they tell you when you need to swap characters to continue the combo. There's this illusion of control and skill.
Fair points. The thing is you're complaining that a gacha game is a gacha game. The model isnt going anywhere because it sells. Is it predatory?? For sure. But telling people "don't waste your time in this, play this other thing" is not going to change anything, because one of the hooks about these games is that there will always be something new in a few weeks.
Gacha games are doing the inverse of what streaming platforms did with series. A full release game is like a full series being dumped to Netflix, everyone interested binge plays it and then discussion dies down after a few weeks. Ever wonder why people wringly mock single player games for being "dead" after a few months when thats just how things are supposed to be for those kinds of games?? Its because we unfortunately live in the age of social media.
In this day and age, its not just about how much fun you can get in the game, how much you can get out of it OUTSIDE the game matters too. And gacha games, with its release schedule in installments drives interaction. People discuss about where the story is going, theorycraft about upcoming characters, and unlike regular games, you don't have to wait years before you get anything new in a feanchise you like (if it even gets a sequel). You KNOW that in 3 weeks or so you will get new developments in the story and new shiny characters that maybe can upset the current "meta".
Gacha games are simply harnessing the model that made TV series so succesful for years, and monetizing the shit out of it.
You talk about how you feel the game limits you in what you can do, while failing to see that as the game goes on and new characters get added, you slowly get that freedom to choose. Instead of a bunch of different weapons for a single character that you customize, given enough time you will be getting an endless array of different characters, each one with unique animations and mechanics, of which you can mix and match 3 of them however you like to make a team that you like. Hopefully they go with the Genshin model and don't have as much powercreep as the other HYV games tho.
A hot take from someone who has a strong disapproval for gacha games in general, Hoyoverse and ZZZ just happens to be under his prejudice and moral scope because the company has gotten too big, too quickly. Honestly, gacha originated from Japan, there are tens of dozens of Japanese gacha game companies out there existing for decades longer than Hoyoverse, but nobody want to talk about them because they're inconsequential, they're too small compare to Hoyoverse 🤣But remember! Hoyoverse was just miHoyo 6 years ago, a small indie studio of nobody but 6 post-grad students worth less than your average family restaurant around the street corner.
Zzz is a terrible game imo …… stop booth licking
@@chiboy5567 Ah yes because liking a game = bootlicking
As someone who heavily dislikes hoyo games, I actually found myself really enjoying ZZZ because of how straightforward and linear it is
In Genshin supposedly hype game title ending up Fallout 76 crowd loud applause wasted high expectations lazy methods ambitious game storytelling without pull characters to play elemental power invest important Characters over fun engagement momentum wasted milliseconds swift response tap or sound mash keyboard
the fact that they have become successful doesn't justify using predatory money/time spending methods to build it's entire fanbase, u could say I'm biased but I have 3 years of genshin and every daily login marked in zzz since the launch, i love the universe of those games and love that everything is connected, but their monetization structure is something i hate so much I wish I could play hacked versions just to enjoy fully the game without the FOMO shit or the gatekeeping with energy/resin that pisses me off, this stuff needs to be criticized, u CAN like a game without bootlicking
@@chiboy5567 BOOTH licking. you can't make this shit up
Enemys in genshin impact can only level gate if they can hit you. Dont let them hit you im level 20 ish and the area i went to had 25 to 30 lvl enemies but with my team i could destract them long enough to walk past
the world scales to you and you can lower the world level if the enemies are to hard
It's unfair to only compare a live service game to completed premium games, but gacha players should realize too that they are in stockholm syndrome
Lmfaoooo
You can find tons of Stockholm syndrome gacha hell users, talking, arguing and defending their company/waifu/money Spent away.
It's a slightly big quantity of people, really sad to watch, then we ask ourselves why bad politicians win and why tiktok/short dumb content is popular, it's because stupidity is real and the people that has it is not a minority, it's the common factor...
This is still better than Destiny 2. Or Overwatch by that matter.
@@Dat_Jonx As a Overwatch player I am not offended
@@Jz-iah As an ex Overwatch fanboy I'm extremely offended by the state of the game after Jeff's departure. Dude, you should find another game, it's self-embarrassing to play Overwatch today.
Imma say it: Who was this video supposed to be directed to? Because it sure as hell wasn't directed to gacha players KEKW Nah, this video was directed to non gacha players Basically saying "Do not engage with this type of games" using ZZZ as a scapegoat because you clearly claimed to be a hater LMAO I enjoy the game, a bunch of people enjoy the game and are well aware of everything you stated in this video since the release of Genshin FOUR YEARS AGO.
Trust me, you aren't getting people off the game, people will get off themselves if they don't like it or if they get bored of it AND THAT'S OK
To be fair to you, Hoyoverse games follow a very recognizable formula because it's been tested to work for years. They're not a new company at this point and has had over 10 years to perfect their craft. I don't agree that stat rail is a boring game. It has a boring beginning, but the more you play and the deeper you understand its mechanics, it's actually one of the most nuanced turn based RPG on the mobile market out there. There's also a very developed roguelike mode, moreso than most other games, that's almost like a separate game onto itself with full fledged mechanics that can provide hours of gameplay.
ZZZ is new but the signs are there for it to become another Hoyo hit. The formula is noticeable at this point, but it works. I do agree, however, that it could have innovated more. The day night cycle doesn't offer much except superficial lock for quests and NPC spawn. The relationship building system is underdeveloped and uninspired. The world looks alive but is actually quite lifeless. The combat is one of the few good things for the game.
mihoyo basically hit the jackpot with their formula. the waifu appeal of the game, targeted at mobile phones audience, with gacha gambling monetizations. the unholly trinity basically. i stopped bothering with their games after 2 years in hi3rd. and i was never satisfied. didn't bother to look into their other "honkai" spin offs. i was close to get into zzz because the style and animation are top tier. but i was reminded by my experience in their previous title. also the huge game file is deal breaker on pc too, 110 gb for anime game with that few assets and chars? wtf is up with that
I agree with both of you except that what´s the uniqueness/depth in HSR? (that´s what I could understand by nuanced)
@Zeg-eh5ik Manipulating the thing called the toughness bar. Stat tuning specifically for speed to optimize rotation and have characters taking turns/multiple turns in the right order and before enemies. Knowing how to spend you skill point management. Different builds to shit your units to your specific playstyle. Tactical use of ults since they can be used whenever as interrupts allowing you to change the direction of an encounter on the fly. As well as opportunities to use the enemies attacking you to deal more damage back.
"Work" more like Gooners/right wing grifters
@@lazyvoid7107 You really need to get out of your bubble.
I would have agreed with the monetization bit a few years ago before playing gatcha games. But now:
1. I used to have to spend $100+ a month to not be bored. Now I spend nothing by rotating between gatcha games and old steam library;
2. The pressure to spend simply does not exist, at least for me;
3. The longer I play, the less I need to spend. Because resources accumulate and I eventually get a strong roster of characters
And I don’t think zzz is a combat game. All Hoyo games are narrative games (may be the reason why I feel no pressure to spend?). The different combat systems are just the clothes they wear.
About zzz itself, characters immediately likable. And I do think the story put them into interesting situations where they have to reveal something about them. And it’s 1.0, to say those characters don’t develop is an assumption on your part.
If you don’t like the characters or the story, then it’s probably why you don’t like the game. But if that’s the case, then surely you wouldn’t feel the need to spend anyway?
I respect Gacha games because unlike a lot of other microtransaction laden games they tell extremely directly what they are upfront, nothing is hidden or obfuscated. Even the precise breakdown of all the drop rates and how the pulls works is in the game on the same page as the slot machine window. All told it creates a situation where you can decide right away if its for you or not.
Can it be manipulative? can it be a skinner box or entrap those with predilections of gambling addiction? sure, absolutely, but so can any game with loot boxes, at least it also focuses on providing a game first, all of the real money stuff is regulated to pulling new characters or those characters weapons, as well as a super small handful of other things. Basically everything else in the game is free, available, and accessible to any player regardless of how much you've spent.
For Genshin Impact i played for a bit to know it was a game i enjoyed, and rather spend and unknown amount of money to get the characters i want i just bought a pre-made account with all the character i would have sought. I made sure i had a strict budget of a regular game and i actually came in under quite a bit. While i have spent a small amount here and there since (about the amount of a second game) Ive mostly remained free and have still gained many new characters afterwards.
It creates this atmosphere that despite it being a unrepentant casino slot machine game, it feels incredibly unmistakably *_fair_*__. You always know what it is, what your chances are, what you are getting, all the while you have access to a super large amount of actual _game._
You seem pretty fast to jump to conclusions without passing even first half of the game. First of all, not all characters are that bad, Koleda has a great own arc (although, she's probably the only character in the game with actual character depth, which still makes you right), there's Hollow Zero mode with roguelike elements and cards, which allows you for more character building outside of stat-jerking. Also, there's a third gacha with Bangboo's, and surprisingly (and for some weird reason), it's completely free and apart from mtx system.
Other than that, I completely agree. Still more fun than most of the modern western games and has better monetization than OW2 and that's enough for me to stay for a while.
P. S. My special kudos for MihoYo for spending their gazilions on BCI and Nuclear research instead of someone like Pete Parsons of Bungie on vintage cars for himself (amidst lay-off).
i feel like this is the first time bro dip their toes into a gacha game. well its an abyss that will pull your toes into the darkness. but still, its a free game and it has value. it takes strong mental fortitude gamer to not spend money though. still, its an enjoyable game.
Bro i get that we all have the right to have our own opinions, but if you're trying to compare this game to something, compare it to other gacha games. *Not* AAA *finished* titles. This *isn't* a finished game. Hundreds of gacha games *aren't* finished.
Edit2: ALL gacha games (even outside miHoYo) have similar micro-transaction tactics. These manipulative tactics are everywhere. *NOT* just ZZZ.
But there's a difference between making money and wanting all the money in the world. Gacha aren't monetised equally and the mihomo is notorious for being merciless, stingy and deaf to the players' feedback.
It would be nice if you showed some integrity as well, before criticising other people's take.
Sure Humanless Furryzone Zero isn't a AAA but gacha games are taking over the world of gaming, they make more money than AAA whether you like it or not. They're becoming more and more mainstream. And if something becomes big, it's going to be compared to the biggest, that's how it works.
I think comparing games to the best things there are is fair game. I remember recently ubisoft, ea, and other big publisher-studio representatives being quite butthurt by elden ring and baldur's gate 3, saying that they are outliers and they can't be the standard, by which other games are measured. But it only showed the stagnation in game design and story development that these huge companies are in.
calling a game manipulative when none of the characters convinced you to grind or swipe is like calling someone smart when all their actions say stupid
btw, simplicity isn't a problem when it's done for expanding (GGST, ZZZ) instead of homogenizing (PSO2 NGS, SFV). Sekiro wouldn't be as loved if simplicity on its own was a problem, and being a more complex game only hurt MK1's competitive scene
but complexity = good while simplicity = bad is a very understandable trap to fall into 👍
Refusing to admit that mihoyo gacha games are manipulative and predatory is delusional, or maybe said because the person is being paid by mihoyo.
It'd be stupid if the characters have ever asked you to grind or pull for them, that's not how manipulation works. You have to put them through action, and make them think its their own idea, that's a good manipulation. The most convincing way to put your idea into others is when you make them think it's their own idea.
And complexity isn't equal to depth. GGST has a perk of being a fighting game, you can literally have a good fighting game with only two giant buttons that does Dive, and Kick, like Divekick and still be as deep as ocean. And while the game is much simpler, the Roman Cancel is deeper than ever, and the true depth of fighting game has always been the interaction between you and other player, not your control. Don't put Guilty Gear next to ZZZ.
Depth = good, while shallow = bad, it's the bare basic of the good action game combat.
@@superpnutbutter8608 they mean the game can't manipulate you if none of the characters connected with you
and btw, Sekiro is a simpler game and highly regarded while SFV is a simpler game and panned. nice job falling into the trap the OP mentioned though 🤡
@@AMEOWNGUS-lz4wm No offense, but are you stupid? At what part when I say simpler game is worse? Simple is the opposite of complex, and complexity isn't equate to depth.
And yes, the game cannot manipulate you if you don't interest in it, the same way as poison cannot kill you if you're immune to it. It's still a poison, and it shouldn't exist.
@@AMEOWNGUS-lz4wm A simpler game isn't a worse game. Simplicity is the opposite of complexity, and complexity isn't equate to depth. Divekick literally has two giant button for jump, and for dive kick, and the game is as deep as ocean, no complexity, no bs, just dive, and kick. And a game so complex with no depth at all can theoretically exist.
And saying the game cannot manipulate you if you're not connected, or not interest in it is like saying a poison cannot kill you if you're immune to it. It's still a poison, why do I offered it in the first place?
Honestly these days ever since i found this game called craft warriors where you make your own models i stop playing Gachas my a larg amount even though craft warriors is shut down sadly i can craft still and enjoy the models i make
There's too much hand holding in the combat to call it fun. There's one combo to everything, you dodge or swap when the enemy tells you they're attacking, you HAVE to swap mid combo when that pop-up appears. It's flashy but they give you the illusion of skill and depth with these systems.
Wait till Tectone reacts to this
This game is good and all gacha games are like this
It isn’t fair to compare it to other games that aren’t gacha
oh no, TT has upset the gacha game community, time for people to defend their favourite multibillion dollar developer studio!
I am really glad I never got into this industry of gaming. Gacha gaming looks so short term and unsustainable I just don't get the appeal on top of the grimey aspect that it's even more transparent it's about gacha companies all competing for your wallet than your time.
The modern gaming industry does stink and also wants to make you spend rather than value your time but it's even more apparent with these titles and I just wish their depth was deeper than a pothole puddle.
What u said doesnt make u special whatsoever. And for ppl to defend something they like is perfectly normal even if what they like seems crazy to u. Go try arguing to Americans about gun, and u'll get just the same response if not stronger. In short, u're nothing, your opinion is also nothing. Our opinion is nothing. What u care? Who u care? I'll insult them and see if u dont feel the slightest feel to defend them. Hypocrite.
🥸🥸
isnt that normal in every game community? XD
Wow my normal comment got deleted even thought it's a fact lol. Trash
I pretty much agree with everything you said, it quite sad to see so many people not even questioning these design decisions.
Being a Gacha game is not an excuse to not compare it to other games.
I have been playing Genshin for almost 3 years, not really for the gacha mechanics but for the world building and lore that the game has, but even I can admit that the way ZZZ and Genshin approach storytelling is just lame sometimes
ZZZ is like the jack of all trades but master of none.
If you want better combat and story, you should definitely play Nier Automata,
If you want better social aspects and a better written story, Persona 3, 4 and 5 is there for you.
For me, these games should be played sometimes, when new content is available, if you stick to one for longer you will end up feeling burn out.
Came for the concord vid, stayed for ripping mihoyo apart. Like your editing and narration.
I actually am enjoying this game and i hate mobile games. Combat is kinda fun, but too easy
Zenless Zone Zero?
more like
ZZZ... 😴🌙🛌
I play A LOT of Genshin Impact, I love Devil May Cry, so this game should be perfect for me, "BUTT" the Persona visual style but even more horni pulled me out of it cuz I'm sick of games that want so badly at selling themselves on sexual fanservice (yes, this annoys me too in Genshin). Also, to hell with furries
Its so rich that he said the game tells rather than show while in the same breath praises Persona 5. My brother and Christ, you just described Persona 5 too. That game tells the player everything they need to know too, including all of the hidden subtext so even little Timmy can understand. The game leaves no room for critical thinking or debating what the subtext is because it literally tells you. If this game is somehow is worse than Persona 5 at telling and not showing, man does this game fill some massive shoes.
I would prefer if they make more games that let you make your own character.
Great video, man
So uh.. in general, I understand and can relate to your sentiment. But you've clearly barely put any time whatsoever into ZZZ and thus are talking a lot of nonsense which will end up spreading misinformation. If you want to cover and talk about microtransaction as a wider topic, you will probably find a better reception than basing your video essay on the newest, popular game that fits what you want to talk about - without actually putting any effort into getting to know the game you are featuring, and it's systems.
I'm not saying none of your criticism isn't valid, but by making up shit (which could come down to literally not knowing any better) you are watering down your statements and opinions.
Examples of this: You compare W-Engines to Artifact sets, this shows how "far" you actually progressed in ZZZ. Because ZZZ has its own version of Artifact sets, W-Engines are the equivalent of Weapons in Genshin or Light Cones in HSR. You also loosely state that in different moments that while you progress through ZZZ energy costs will increase/the grind will become longer/harder. The opposite is true and has always been, the higher your account rises in all Mihoyo games, the more Resources you will earn per Energy spent. And the base cost per farm attempt never rises to begin with. Just fyi, I play ZZZ casually and F2P.
On another note, while you're not wrong that the initial introduction of characters highlights their most memorable trait, for better or worse, that you aren't aware that there's specific video tape "sidequests/stories" for nearly all the currently present cast of 5 star characters that allows you to learn more about them as well as the fact that, similar to the Persona games, you can invite characters of your choosing to a short outing each day, kinda hinders me from taking much of what you're trying to bring across seriously. That you don't enjoy the game is totally fair, but the least you could do is put some actual research into it.
The leveling and gearing in the mihoyo games is what kills them for me.
I love the character designs and the stories the games tell,
but the incessant chores, the bazillion different currencies, and the constant fomo turns an otherwise enjoyable game into a playable panic attack.
Well, he got more right than he got wrong. Ill give him that. ZZZ has fulfilled everything i wanted from it, so my experience with the game has been pretty positive. I loved that it got a day 1 PS5 release. Incredible, considering these kind of games typically start on PC/mobile and make their way to console after a couple months. Im still waiting for Wuthering Waves!
Im always fown for a good grind, but plenty of games give you plenty to grind without much to gain from it. I have found the constant forward progression your account gets the more it ages to be a very rewarding kind of grind.
Im gonna give Persona 5 a chance after watching this. Just to see what is so much better about it according to this guy lol.
That sucks, I'll keep playing
you forgot to mention gane will only run good on phone designed to fight god but if you have mid range phone or old one you are screwd without at least cloacking them
You know it's fascinating because technically on paper I should really like everything about zzz. It has this Urban art style that reminds me of one of my favorite games jet Gray radio. It has actual interesting character designs and personalities. It's an action beat em up game and I love games like devil May cry and Bayonetta and I don't mind RPG or even microtransaction like progression if done right so you would think I would instantly want to download this... But what has put me off from this game honestly of its marketing. This game came out every UA-cam video I saw for a month had an ad for this game. All of the streamers that I knew were live streaming this game everywhere. I went this game with slamming me on my face screaming for me to buy it and that actually turned me away from it. Like I look back on games like elden ring and breath of the wild. Even annual shit like Call of Duty and I don't remember being attacked this much in marketing and usually if someone is really aggressively trying to market something to me that triggers a thing in my brain to tell me that they had something to hide and that there's a bad thing about it which is why they're pouring everything in the marketing. Ironically, if they hadn't aggressively marketed it the way it did, I would have probably downloaded and played this game. Food For thought.
to sum this video up your complaining that a gacha game is a gacha game because most of the pionts litteraly apply to most if not all gachas
This is more of a gacha problem, but yeah. Fair enough.
18:53 "there is a constant need to tell the player everything and not SHOW" paimon storytelling everywhere
U have to remember this game is FREE and costed multi millions to make how tf else are they supposed to recoup the money without you actually playing the game and potentially spending money lol out of all the other gotcha games this is the best honestly u only have to pay for characters everything else is grindable especially when they start to drop more event quests the game just came out there’s so much they can do this is just the beginning like do you u want a 60$ game for free like huhhh? 😭😭
Yeah, I assumed as much. I briefly considered playing this, but I absolutely detest the way Mihoyo treats its playerbase, and I'm a 7-year-old Azur Lane player, one of, if not the most F2P-friendly gachas out there. Playing this would only result in easily avoidable frustration; it's an easy pass for me. I do really like the way the game looks, though, I'll say that, but I cannot justify embarking on a ride with fucking Mihoyo at the wheel. I love Manjuu and Yostar exactly because they do the complete opposite of what most gacha developers do. All gachas are predatory in nature, but there's a limit I'm willing to compromise on, provided the rest of the game is good enough. I'm used to pulling every character on every banner with no money needed, not farming and spending for scraps. Disappointed but not surprised. Thank you for the video.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 reference??? Alright, I play ZZZ as a F2P player and I'm gonna keep playing it because I like the combat and the gameplay loop, but you're based for referencing XC2, so you get the like. I don't make the rules.
My problem with MiHoyo games is how they try to be both a mobile gacha game and a "real" game at the same time. This to me causes their games to fail to be good by the standards of either category.
The only gacha game I've played and kept up with was Princess Connect Re:Dive from global release to shutdown (RIP) and what made it reasonable to keep up with was thr fact that doing dailies was really simple and quick. Then when I felt like it I could go watch the story in visual novel esque segments. MiHoyo games by comparison require a ton more effort for those dailies and it ends up turning into a huge grind, on top of that the story is integrated into the main quests making it hard to remember what was going on when there's days or weeks of grind between main quest completions. This makes it a bad gacha game. Combine that with stories that at least I find to not hook me in or honestly even make sense and gameplay that's very simplistic for the sake of functioning on a touchscreen (mash one or two buttons, switch character, repeat. And that's assuming you're not just relying on having big damage numbers), that makes it bad "real" game.
It truly just makes for the worst of both worlds and I really can't fathom how people get hooked on these games.
Ain't no way this guy just popped out of thin air 2/3 months ago and started making absolute Banger vids
if this is banger video you have VERY low standards
@RavenL1337 would it shock you if I said this wasn't my first vid from this channel?
Mihoyo games are the embodiment of boundless potential killed by boundless greed. I’d kill to see mihoyo make a premium experience without the garbage monetization they implement.
Yeah I wish these games weren't so predatory so that I might actually give them a try, but there are hundreds of better alternatives that don't waste my time and money. Quite a lot of them go on sale for $20 or less nowadays, so they're a better investment too. At the very least I can appreciate the art and music that they make for these games because they're no slouches in those departments, but yeah I'll pass on playing them.
>these people on comments defending gacha games
It's Always Morally Correct to make fun of Gacha games.
For real, these people need to hold hands with the FIFA ultimate team players and hide in a hole somewhere off the internet.
Some people rush to defend their favouite gacha game because someone disagreed with their views and takes, instead of having a discussion they go straight to the shooting instead of making room for discussion.
Because his point just doesn’t get to me as a free to play player, I can play any hoyo game without a thought of money on my mind, it just gives me that this video is only made because it’s a gacha
I can’t believe people are out here trying to defend predatory gambling games, really sad to see what’s become of gamers
WuWa looks enjoyable, and tower of fantasy captivates the mmo niche I crave with extensive character customization. Yet there will never ever be a day where I tell people to go play them
Being a man of culture is expensive
You literally didn't get past the tutorial. There are good points you bring up. But most of your points are factually incorrect.
0:45
Honkai Impact 3rd from 2016 was the stepping stone for success in the market
But of course, western players don't know this since want to ignored or hadn't done the research properly
Since with the earnings of two years , created Genshin Impact and everyone was sleeping in their paid games for over 2.5 years 😒
Xenoblade 2 is the only good gacha, and thats because its not design to milk you dry
😮 first person i know who liked the hollow
Getting frustrated that a gacha game has horrendous monetization is like stepping into a casino and getting mad that there's gambling. These games are made to hook whales, not be fun for free players
except over half of the playerbases of these games are free players and they still have fun anyway
I have fun without even a thought of spending money lmao ur on to NOTHING
What? Why are you doing this. Like seriously do you just want us to be miserable. Cause I won’t do that
ZZZ is just Hi3 on steroids.
Welcome to mihoyo. Gacha game ubisoft. Especially for the guys who dev genshin impact. Like dear lord that game devs is slow and extremely prideful.
Have you heard yourself talking dude ?😂
> Sees a video about ZZZ. Brings up other Mihoyo games. Knows where this is going
Now i have to wait a day when the youtuber decides to bring up Yostar Azur Lane and Soyny Fate Grand Order.
Is true, yes.
Not entirely.
@@NULL-VI also true.
I played Genshin for a bit until I got through all of the story there was at that time and hit a power cap. No matter how much grinding I did, I couldn't get anything I needed: not the upgrade materials to level up my characters or the characters I wanted from the rolls. I even broke down and spent about $40 trying to get Klee... and all I got was trash. The burnout was fast and furious.
MiHoYo games just feel bad to play on a spiritual level. They're tools of demoralization with cute anime girls as mascots. I just don't get the appeal.
L take fr