I'm currently practicing a piece with a trill, and I think for me the bigger challenge is not the trilling action per se, but rather integrating the trill into the piece; in other words, fitting the trill into the time allowed based on the tempo of the piece and the duration of the note that has the trill.
As a someone who had three different electric pianos, from my experience I must say that unfortunately some keyboards are just very bad, which can also result in a problems with trill technique. So, at least when buying digital piano, try to consult some piano teacher for recommendation. Nowadays, there are digital pianos with very good piano action that are not expensive.
@@Sayuku_P I haven't tried it, so I can only guess. But, since it's Yamaha, it's not their cheapest range, and it has quite good reviews, I believe that it's good choice. Especially for beginners.
@@fortissimoX If the keyboard specifically doesn't advertise triple sensors, it's not good for trills etc. since you need to lift the key completely before re-engaging it... And triple sensor keybeds are really expensive in comparison and usually only in high end models that are meant for serious musicians.
You know what's funny? My teacher made me practice trills for 2 minutes every 40 minutes, timed with a stop watch, every session, using the 4-5-4-5-4-5-4-5 fingers on both my hands. Over the years, it made those 2 fingers a lot stronger.
There must be thousands of videos on UA-cam about executing trills, and I've seen many of them, but this is the first one (finally!) that actually shows you how to really execute them. Now all that's missing is practice. Thank you so much.
@@anav5555 I’m an intermediate (and older). But I’ve been working on the ornaments for weeks. It help to look at various videos of people who play it like you would like (I’m partial to Jacob’s Piano). I’m getting close, so the rather prosaic advice from me is keep keeping on and you’ll get there.
I may be getting ahead of myself but what is the difference between a trill vs a turn (sideways S notation aka gruppetto)? Found in Beethoven's Sonata in C Minor (Pathetique).
Great! Tips for trilling with the left hand? That same Mozart piece has a descending left-hand trill that introduces the second theme. It always gives me hardship.
Jason, I am totally a beginner. Although I had wished for playing piano, I never gave a thought to it seriously. After following and watching all of your videos and the videos of Pianote channel, I bought a keyboard Casio CTS 300. After all, that's the only keyboard I can afford. Now as a beginner who knows nothing, your tutorial videos are so helpful and discovering of what to learn and practice. Thank you so much.
Thanks for this video. One problem I have is executing trills musically while the left hand maintains the rhythm. Trills speed up and slow down, but the left hand has to stay steady. I practice this by having the left hand go with a metronome while the right hand goes free with the trill, but would love hear any advice you have about this. Another video maybe?
Hi. I'm self-taught pianist and had difficulty with thrills in Chopin's Nocturne and it was such a nightmare 😫 ! Following these exercises I have progressed at this a lot and I'm pretty excited about that. Thanks man. This is a great great video to learn thrills 😊.
Great vid Jazer, especially the extreme close-ups! Could you possibly do a How to Trill part 2 with explanations of the Baroque trills like we see in the Bach inventions? I'm working on Invention No. 9 but leaving all the trills out for now...
I actively avoid trills! Will need to try and follow some of the ideas in this video. I often think it’s my piano not helping too. Do you think you can still trill as well on an entry level digital piano? My Roland FP30 keys don’t seem to have a lot of bounce.
I have a Yamaha GDX 320, and my trills doesn't sound that great there, but once I got to play in a more advanced piano my trills sound way better and are a lot easier to do.
I play on a Roland FP30 as well. As this is my only piano encounter I do not know how good/bad it is for trill playing. However, I notice that if I set the piano to the second default the trills sound better. Also it may depend on the key touch setting as I feel that the trills tend to be easier to play at a certain setting, but then it could be my imagination. One FP30 thing I don’t like is the noise it makes when the keys rise back up to the felts after they have been played, not on the trills but just normal playing. Do others have the same noise problem?
I have been wanting trill help because I'm working on Nocturne in c# minor, so this was good timing. It would be great if you could offer some tips for the scales at the end (not sure what to call them). I am not at the level where I can play them fast enough, and probably it's just a matter of time and work. I really love that piece and would like to be able to play it well!
Good explanation for single note trills. But how you do trill a 1-3 chord? I ask because Strauss' Beautiful Blue Danube has it in one of the melodies. Thanks.
I know you said that good fingering is important for a good trill, but what if you are forced to use not so great fingering for example in 'La Campanella' there's a part where you need to trill with fingers 3 and 4 so either way good fingering wouldn't help. If you have and recommendations pls tell
Great video! After only 10 minutes of praciticing these exercises i was able to play a greatly superior and more controled trill on lower dynamics (all of this applied for a performance of the nocturne n2). Still a long way to go on these trills but with these tips, that road will sure be shorter :)
Thanks so much Jazer! I’ve been playing for decades and can still learn things from you. And trills are definitely a weak spot of mine. I would love to hear discussion of more ornaments also. 😍
Thank you so much for these tips! I am playing a duet right now that starts off with two trills, and it sounds so much better now! But I don't know if I could ever get as good as this guy, no matter how much I practice.
I have discovered a few trills in Bach's Prelude in C Minor from The Well-Tempered Clavier. There are two trills on white keys in the B or 2nd section, but I also found 2 trills between a black and white key (Ab to G) in the 1st section.
I've never found the 3-4 trill to be much harder than the 2-3 one. Sure, it feels a little less comfortable and it's slightly less even, but my max speed is almost the same with both and those problems I mentioned are most likely due to the fact that I simply haven't spent as much time practicing 3-4. Trying trills like 1-3 and 2-4 is also something I recommend (or just practice your tremolos).
My tips are to watch the landmark system video + just find any way to learn what each note is. Then just sight read the easiest pieces you have and keep reading new easy pieces everyday. You might feel like you aren't making progress but you'll improve so stick with it! Basically, I noticed I can just automatically read/recognize the chords I've read before in other pieces with ease... So pretty much the more you read the better you'll get : )
Hi! I had 3 years of piano lessons as a kid. Now, almost 30 years later I'm picking it up again. It's amazing how much the brain can store after so many years. How do you feel about learning with an app? Any recommendations?
These are great tips. When i did classics i somehow had problems with triplets but trills were ok. Holding hands low is a great tip. My teacher told me this and my fingers would be not flexible if i did not keep my hand down. Thanks i am learning alot to improve my technique
I play easy listening music mainly now but the trills, arpegios etc and all your good exercises have motivated me alot and these extras enhance technique.
Jazer how long did it take you to learn to play so well? You and Kaleb Brasee are so great on the piano. The movement of yours and Kaleb hands are simple beautiful. I wish I could develop that talent.
I have some work and lots of practice to do, but I now can start.. I found your tutorial because I am learning that piece - Piano Sonata in C major - Mozart. Perfect, thank you!
I used to live in Sydney and I recall ur accent in Australia. but it is more than that. you r pretty nice and positive in teaching. my problem is I wonder when I had do the ones you said in your improvisation video. please respond x
7:39 but if I trill on B flat in like the B flat, E Flat, A flat, or D Flat key signature, would it be rapidly playing notes on B flat and B or B flat and C?
Oh this is perfect. I'm playing Venetianisches Gondellied for one of my pieces in my last year of highschool. There's a very very long trill on C# and the notes are easy to play but I was struggling with making it sound even.
The piece you were playing at the start was Mozart's Sonata in C Major K.545 (1st Movement) (ALSO I DID NOT GOOGLE IT I HAVE PLAYED THIS PIECE A MILLION TIMES)
Next level is trilling alternate fingers for example 1 3 and 2 3. 😁 I'm just kidding but you should try. I am a keyboardist and I was played some classical pieces. I use to play that fingering.
First of all, congratulations for your videos. I just discovered you, and your tips are very helpful for beginners and indermediate alike. I want to ask a question on trills and ornaments if it's not too much: I used to play the piano when I was in high-school and I stopped when I finished the b indermediate. I didn't drop it entirely, but I am learning new pieces and playing them at my own leisure. I always had an issue with the trills and when I was learning a new piece, I was adding them in the end, in order to first learn the melody, the tempo and get the "feeling" of the piece and later focus on what was hard for me. But when I'm putting the trills, it's like they are alien and not a part of the piece and I'm struggling really hard to blend them in the piece and not to interrupt the flow. Am I doing it wrong? What's the best timing to put the trills in a piece. Shall I put them from the beginning or in the end? In general, in what faze of the learning is it good to add them to a new piece? Thanks in advance. P. S. The piece you are playing is the Facile Sonate if I'm not mistaken
lol as a violinist trying to learn piano, I'm used to having my fingers totally curved with a completely straight lovely relaxed wrist. with 3 and 4 at least I have to use doorknob opening motion from my elbow, which eliminates the finger angle problem altogether lol so technically that was easiest for me 😂 not for long I hope, this sucks lol
I’m a classical guitarist who’ve decided to learn piano. On guitar we have two string trills that we make with four fingers, so I’ve been working on a similar version on piano as well. You who play piano could you tell me how you think 3-1-4-2 feels like? For me 3-1, 4-2 so on feels really awkward (32 quite good).
Could you do all 5 trill levels?
Definitely not but something I’m working on.
What about a 3-note trill? (Eg. 1 and 3 + octave notes, either 1 and 3 come together or 3 and octave) How to practice it?
Nah, but I'll practice every day so I can become a ling ling
In on vacation and i want to play piano but im home in 2 days :(
Not yet--but that's what practice is for!
Tip number 4: practice on your girlfriend
underrated comment
*o o f*
404: gf not found
I think I died reading this comment
@@l00n3yyy in a good or a bad way
Perfect timing! I’m learning Chopin’s Nocturne in C Sharp minor, which I definitely need to master trills for!
I'm learning Chopin nocturne in e flat major.
@@akshitsharma8475 that’s what I am working on now!
@@elaina6868 nice! hope you can play it fully.
i'm playing it too! How is it going?
same reason i came here
Piano sonata no.16 in C major. U can always tell the energy in Mozart.
fax
wtf lmao, mozart energetic...
Yeah definitely k545
@@AsrielKujo ?¿
True
Josh Wright also talked about rotating the hand when trilling. He said a good trill has a mix of finger movement and rotation.
my boy josh write out here teaching me un sospiro sHEEEEEEEEESH
Do you have the link of that video?
it looks like you trill with the tips of the finger, no pianist explains that. i tried that and its a world of difference
True
I'm currently practicing a piece with a trill, and I think for me the bigger challenge is not the trilling action per se, but rather integrating the trill into the piece; in other words, fitting the trill into the time allowed based on the tempo of the piece and the duration of the note that has the trill.
Exactly. Transitioning out of a trill seems like jumping off a moving merry-go-round. I would like some guidance on that too.
Content suggestion: please dedicate videos playing a complete piece
@@xmeoa4257 👏 stop 👏 promoting 👏 your 👏 videos 👏 in 👏 the 👏 comments 👏😩😩😩😩😩
YES
@@RellyRoblox they have no vids tho.
@@LetFenrirSoloHer they deleted the comment
@@LetFenrirSoloHer they can also make it private or unlist it and just share the link
His girlfriend is probably really happy
As a someone who had three different electric pianos, from my experience I must say that unfortunately some keyboards are just very bad, which can also result in a problems with trill technique. So, at least when buying digital piano, try to consult some piano teacher for recommendation. Nowadays, there are digital pianos with very good piano action that are not expensive.
Would you recommend the YDP-164?
@@Sayuku_P I haven't tried it, so I can only guess. But, since it's Yamaha, it's not their cheapest range, and it has quite good reviews, I believe that it's good choice. Especially for beginners.
@@fortissimoX If the keyboard specifically doesn't advertise triple sensors, it's not good for trills etc. since you need to lift the key completely before re-engaging it...
And triple sensor keybeds are really expensive in comparison and usually only in high end models that are meant for serious musicians.
@@Mtaalas Thanks for pointing that out! I believe that is very important information regarding this video.
Thoughts on CTX 700?
Perfect timing because I'm gonna need to do some trilling today.
You know what's funny? My teacher made me practice trills for 2 minutes every 40 minutes, timed with a stop watch, every session, using the 4-5-4-5-4-5-4-5 fingers on both my hands. Over the years, it made those 2 fingers a lot stronger.
You fingers are faster than my wifi
😅
There must be thousands of videos on UA-cam about executing trills, and I've seen many of them, but this is the first one (finally!) that actually shows you how to really execute them. Now all that's missing is practice. Thank you so much.
Mozart - Piano Sonata No. 16 in C Major, K.545
It would be great to have a video on ornaments and other similar-to-trills fast movements
I could really use some tips on that as well. I'm playing River Flows in You by Yiruma and I'm struggling with the ornaments
Ornaments would be nice.
@@anav5555 I’m an intermediate (and older). But I’ve been working on the ornaments for weeks. It help to look at various videos of people who play it like you would like (I’m partial to Jacob’s Piano). I’m getting close, so the rather prosaic advice from me is keep keeping on and you’ll get there.
@@pooledeutube Thanks for the advice!
I may be getting ahead of myself but what is the difference between a trill vs a turn (sideways S notation aka gruppetto)? Found in Beethoven's Sonata in C Minor (Pathetique).
Perfect timing.
Today I encountered a trill in a piece and didn't even know what it was🙊. This definitely helped.
Me too. I just guess and it was right though.... with few extra tips ! 🤣❤
Mozart K545 of course
Great! Tips for trilling with the left hand? That same Mozart piece has a descending left-hand trill that introduces the second theme. It always gives me hardship.
Jason, I am totally a beginner. Although I had wished for playing piano, I never gave a thought to it seriously. After following and watching all of your videos and the videos of Pianote channel, I bought a keyboard Casio CTS 300. After all, that's the only keyboard I can afford. Now as a beginner who knows nothing, your tutorial videos are so helpful and discovering of what to learn and practice. Thank you so much.
Thanks for this video. One problem I have is executing trills musically while the left hand maintains the rhythm. Trills speed up and slow down, but the left hand has to stay steady. I practice this by having the left hand go with a metronome while the right hand goes free with the trill, but would love hear any advice you have about this. Another video maybe?
Hi. I'm self-taught pianist and had difficulty with thrills in Chopin's Nocturne and it was such a nightmare 😫 ! Following these exercises I have progressed at this a lot and I'm pretty excited about that. Thanks man. This is a great great video to learn thrills 😊.
Haha! Thats exacty the piece I came here for 😆Good luck!!
@@pavlovshackmapguides3674 same 😭 nocturne in e minor for me
@owen calder I just finished the first page today, keep at it mg 🙏
No. 20 in C# minor, beautiful piece, hell on the right wrist though
Great vid Jazer, especially the extreme close-ups! Could you possibly do a How to Trill part 2 with explanations of the Baroque trills like we see in the Bach inventions? I'm working on Invention No. 9 but leaving all the trills out for now...
The first thing you need to Trill properly is a symbiotic organism in your abdomen.
It's real. It's a fake
I actively avoid trills! Will need to try and follow some of the ideas in this video. I often think it’s my piano not helping too. Do you think you can still trill as well on an entry level digital piano? My Roland FP30 keys don’t seem to have a lot of bounce.
I have a Yamaha GDX 320, and my trills doesn't sound that great there, but once I got to play in a more advanced piano my trills sound way better and are a lot easier to do.
Ditto that FP 30🤪
I play on a Roland FP30 as well. As this is my only piano encounter I do not know how good/bad it is for trill playing. However, I notice that if I set the piano to the second default the trills sound better. Also it may depend on the key touch setting as I feel that the trills tend to be easier to play at a certain setting, but then it could be my imagination. One FP30 thing I don’t like is the noise it makes when the keys rise back up to the felts after they have been played, not on the trills but just normal playing. Do others have the same noise problem?
Entry-level digital pianos just are not good for trilling, because they don't have any bounce :/
(I have a cheap-ass Casio lol)
Mozart Sonata 16 C major!
I literally searched this up because I couldn't do THAT specific trill in the piece lol thank you!!
Can you do a same tutorial for legato?
This Technical I want to learn so far, Thank U very much Yr channel very useful, and U very thoughtful + Friendly
I have been wanting trill help because I'm working on Nocturne in c# minor, so this was good timing. It would be great if you could offer some tips for the scales at the end (not sure what to call them). I am not at the level where I can play them fast enough, and probably it's just a matter of time and work. I really love that piece and would like to be able to play it well!
Good explanation for single note trills. But how you do trill a 1-3 chord?
I ask because Strauss' Beautiful Blue Danube has it in one of the melodies. Thanks.
The piece is- Piano Sonata no.16 in C-major, K-545,1st Movement. By Mozart.
I know you said that good fingering is important for a good trill, but what if you are forced to use not so great fingering for example in 'La Campanella' there's a part where you need to trill with fingers 3 and 4 so either way good fingering wouldn't help.
If you have and recommendations pls tell
I’m a beginner. Never heard of trilling. Just learned a new piano technique. Very cool!
Great video! After only 10 minutes of praciticing these exercises i was able to play a greatly superior and more controled trill on lower dynamics (all of this applied for a performance of the nocturne n2).
Still a long way to go on these trills but with these tips, that road will sure be shorter :)
I swear: I am now going to once and for all get my trills sorted out. Thank you Jazer. Great lesson.
Bro check: Did you ? 😐
Is it Mozart's 16th Piano Sonata?
Wanted to comment since this is the first time I knew what piece you were playing
Appreciate this very much. Any ideas as double third trills? Thanks.
Another excellent tutorial, Jazer. I found it to be very trilling. 😂😂
You playing Sonata K545 in c by Mozart :)
But when a note in sheet music is marked as a trill, do you play it and the note a semi-tone above it or the marked note and the semi-tone below it?
First comm! Love your vids 🥰
Very piece I've been struggling with.....lol😂
Thanks so much Jazer! I’ve been playing for decades and can still learn things from you. And trills are definitely a weak spot of mine. I would love to hear discussion of more ornaments also. 😍
I'm missing the tip where you should move your wrist also.
Oddly enough, trills was a thing I could do almost perfectly from the first time I tried it
Thank you so much for these tips! I am playing a duet right now that starts off with two trills, and it sounds so much better now! But I don't know if I could ever get as good as this guy, no matter how much I practice.
Stay in touch on instagram for bite-sized piano tutorials and lessons- instagram.com/jazer.lee/
Thank you! This was really helpful. Go Mozart!
Mozart piano sonata K 545 1 movement
First
I have discovered a few trills in Bach's Prelude in C Minor from The Well-Tempered Clavier. There are two trills on white keys in the B or 2nd section, but I also found 2 trills between a black and white key (Ab to G) in the 1st section.
the best trill fingering is obviously 4-5. As you said - a good pianist has to be able to trill with any two fingers. Please enjoy practicing.
Trill with thumb and pinky finger
Soon you'll hit 200k!!
Loving your channel Jazer! Very valuable tips always!
Any chance you'll cover how to do the fast evenly played Alberti base?
I've never found the 3-4 trill to be much harder than the 2-3 one. Sure, it feels a little less comfortable and it's slightly less even, but my max speed is almost the same with both and those problems I mentioned are most likely due to the fact that I simply haven't spent as much time practicing 3-4. Trying trills like 1-3 and 2-4 is also something I recommend (or just practice your tremolos).
3-4 on the left hand, white and black notes... now that is awkward.
Your forearms are amazing, do you workout ?
Nice drills techniques pls will you provide more drills and fills techniques
Nice
learning nocturne 20 lol. and you played it
That intro had the exact trill that im trying to play lol
Hey Jazer :) Im struggling with Double-Thirds😅 Can you show us some ways to master this? (For a fluently Op 25 no 6😉)
THX!
Thanks for the tips, mate! P.S. "This composer" was Mozart and the piece was his Sonata in C Major, K. 545.
He knows
Thanks so very much however please do for us a video about interpretation of trills, ornaments, grace notes and the likes
how to improve sight reading part 2
just needed because im a first grader in piano please😣
My tips are to watch the landmark system video + just find any way to learn what each note is. Then just sight read the easiest pieces you have and keep reading new easy pieces everyday. You might feel like you aren't making progress but you'll improve so stick with it! Basically, I noticed I can just automatically read/recognize the chords I've read before in other pieces with ease... So pretty much the more you read the better you'll get : )
Thank you so much , then I can practise Bach invention 10 🎹🎹🌹🙏🏻 with 2-3 and 3-4, hope I can do it better
Try 3-5 instead.
@@ramiroruizcabaleiro bit difficult 😅
Hi! I had 3 years of piano lessons as a kid. Now, almost 30 years later I'm picking it up again. It's amazing how much the brain can store after so many years.
How do you feel about learning with an app? Any recommendations?
These are great tips. When i did classics i somehow had problems with triplets but trills were ok. Holding hands low is a great tip. My teacher told me this and my fingers would be not flexible if i did not keep my hand down. Thanks i am learning alot to improve my technique
I play easy listening music mainly now but the trills, arpegios etc and all your good exercises have motivated me alot and these extras enhance technique.
Perfect video on trills for beginners like me. Can you make a video on entire set if ornamentations sir. It will be really helpful for us. 😊
Jazer how long did it take you to learn to play so well? You and Kaleb Brasee are so great on the piano. The movement of yours and Kaleb hands are simple beautiful. I wish I could develop that talent.
Osu players be like, interesting
its like butterfly clicking lol
I dont remember the exact name of the song but I know it is a sonata from mozart, remembered learning the first part lol
What is the song you played
KV 545 of course 😀. I’m actually learning this at the moment, so your lecture comes in very helpful. Thx. a lot.
I have some work and lots of practice to do, but I now can start.. I found your tutorial because I am learning that piece - Piano Sonata in C major - Mozart. Perfect, thank you!
I used to live in Sydney and I recall ur accent in Australia. but it is more than that. you r pretty nice and positive in teaching. my problem is I wonder when I had do the ones you said in your improvisation video. please respond x
Your videos are always so helpful. Life changing really. You are such a good teacher! Thank you!
Tôi là người việt năm ,sống ở việt nam ,tôi rất thích kênh của anh chia sẻ, I like this 👍
7:39 but if I trill on B flat in like the B flat, E Flat, A flat, or D Flat key signature, would it be rapidly playing notes on B flat and B or B flat and C?
Oh this is perfect. I'm playing Venetianisches Gondellied for one of my pieces in my last year of highschool. There's a very very long trill on C# and the notes are easy to play but I was struggling with making it sound even.
Too slow. I'll never do it.
I want to see you do a 1-5 trill :-D
Me after watching this: *My name is Barry Allen. I am the fastest human alive*
The piece you were playing at the start was Mozart's Sonata in C Major K.545 (1st Movement)
(ALSO I DID NOT GOOGLE IT I HAVE PLAYED THIS PIECE A MILLION TIMES)
What about 3-5-3-5 etc.? Like in Beethoven's opus 111?
Thanks Jazer! I’m having difficulty on Chopin Barcarolle . Holding key with thumb while trilling with 3-5 fingers .
I don’t know why but I instantly became better at thrills for some reason
Next level is trilling alternate fingers for example 1 3 and 2 3. 😁
I'm just kidding but you should try. I am a keyboardist and I was played some classical pieces. I use to play that fingering.
First of all, congratulations for your videos. I just discovered you, and your tips are very helpful for beginners and indermediate alike. I want to ask a question on trills and ornaments if it's not too much: I used to play the piano when I was in high-school and I stopped when I finished the b indermediate. I didn't drop it entirely, but I am learning new pieces and playing them at my own leisure. I always had an issue with the trills and when I was learning a new piece, I was adding them in the end, in order to first learn the melody, the tempo and get the "feeling" of the piece and later focus on what was hard for me. But when I'm putting the trills, it's like they are alien and not a part of the piece and I'm struggling really hard to blend them in the piece and not to interrupt the flow. Am I doing it wrong? What's the best timing to put the trills in a piece. Shall I put them from the beginning or in the end? In general, in what faze of the learning is it good to add them to a new piece? Thanks in advance.
P. S. The piece you are playing is the Facile Sonate if I'm not mistaken
I think it's a little bit easier on Grand piano when compared to upright and digital!
Actually, 2-4 is the fastest trill in left hand
Plz do a QnA we'll know more about you and how you got into piano
I know what piece you’re playing! It’s Piano Sonata No. 16 in C Major by Mozart and I absolutely LOVE that piece so much.
Thanks for teaching!❤👍 How come 1-3 is your best fingering? My first fingering is 2-3, second is 2-3. 1-3 is pretty awkward. Any people like me?
... Thanks for da practice, mate!
Can you please make video on "How to increase accuracy"..
4-5 in la campanella 😥
lol as a violinist trying to learn piano, I'm used to having my fingers totally curved with a completely straight lovely relaxed wrist. with 3 and 4 at least I have to use doorknob opening motion from my elbow, which eliminates the finger angle problem altogether lol so technically that was easiest for me 😂 not for long I hope, this sucks lol
I’m a classical guitarist who’ve decided to learn piano. On guitar we have two string trills that we make with four fingers, so I’ve been working on a similar version on piano as well. You who play piano could you tell me how you think 3-1-4-2 feels like? For me 3-1, 4-2 so on feels really awkward (32 quite good).