Is This Montreal?
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2020
- Is it the Mountain, the Ville, the Island, the Region? If you ask any room of Montréalais you'll find a variety of disagreement on where our city ends. When we disagree on something as fundamental as what the city even is it's no surprise that we struggle to agree on all the regular social battlegrounds.
Watch me foolishly wade into the fray with my dictionary of definitions to answer all critical questions on the issue.
How did Montreal go from being twenty eight municipalities, to one, and then finally settle on sixteen? Is this island life for now, and where to from here. Also is Laval part of Montreal, part of Greater Montreal or part of the Montreal Metropolitan Community and what does that even mean? Does Laval even exist or is it just something made up to scare plateau hipsters on halloween?
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References & Sources
[1] www.erudit.org/fr/revues/haf/...
[2] rem.info/en/news/secrets-moun...
[3] www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...
[4] montreal.ca/arrondissements
[5] collections.musee-mccord.qc.ca...
[6] montreal.ca/en/topics/logo-an...
[7] collections.musee-mccord.qc.ca...
[8] collections.musee-mccord.qc.ca...
[9]ville.montreal.qc.ca/pls/porta...
[10] $40,079
[11] $69,665
[12] 1704694
[13] ville.montreal.qc.ca/pls/porta...
[14] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...
[15] montreal.ca/conseils-decision...
[16] cmm.qc.ca/a-propos/territoire...
[17] www.mamh.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin...
[18] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...
[19] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...
[20] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...
[21] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...
[22] docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
[23] www.thesuburban.com/news/city...
[24] www.macleans.ca/news/canada/c...
[25] nationalpost.com/opinion/chri...
[26]www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re... (
623,895/1894995)
[27] www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re... (904840/4,009,795)
[28] montrealgazette.com/news/loca...
[29] www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cens...
[30] www.ctvnews.ca/canada/2016-ce...
[31] 56.21% (Includes Montreal East and Town of Mont Royal)
[32] 22.83%
[33] 15.31% in the CMA
[34]www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re... (Quebec city 4.9% visible minority)
Kind of funny but this 15 minute statistical analysis has so far yielded just one correction.
"Ye Old Volcano" should have been "Ye Old Volcanic Formation" which I omitted from the video because it always seemed pedantic to me and I noticed other outlets went with volcano. What a fool I was! I seem to have kicked all the the geologists of the region in the rocks with my terrible editorial decision.
i have been disappointed with the lack of accurate geological expertise on this channel, but i guess the good political and sociological analysis makes up for it. FOR NOW
As usual, well done and well researched et comme d'habitude, nous l'avons partagé. *Thumbs up on the français!*
You deserve way more subscribers. This is amazing!
So do you! I want a crossover
No way, love your vids ! You're from Montreal?
I suspect this is true for most large cities, but I find that if you are talking to someone who is more than a 2-hour drive away, you will say you are from "Montreal" even if you live in one of the off-island suburbs, but if 2 Montrealers from the city proper are talking to each other, they will refer to their neighbourhood, even if it has no official status, for example, Pointe-St-Charles or Mile-End or Petite-Patrie. Many of the official names of boroughs are invented by bureaucrats (for ex. "Le Sud Ouest", which is really 5 distinct districts). In Laval people will refer to the the old cities that were merged together in the 60s (Chomedey, Sainte-Rose, Laval-des-Rapides, Pontviau, etc.) even though old cities have had no official status for over 50 years, they aren't even boroughs. On the South Shore people will still refer to municipalities that ceased to exist decades ago (Préville, Lemoyne, Laflèche) or that never existed but were parishes (Fatima) or even real estate developments (Collectivité nouvelle). By the way, you cannot trust Google Earth for the real names of places, as they have an "official" bureaucratic bias. Real people in everyday life still call districts by their old names decades after they were officially merged, disappeared or renamed by governments.
9:37 Demographic of Chambly: "COWWWW! CHICKENNN!!" LMAO
Excellent as usual!
The quality is amazing! Thank you!
I really enjoyed this video. The production quality is very good, its funny and you definetly did your research.
Eventhough I knew of the differences between the "Montréals", I didnt quite realize how they could be easily used to push an agenda.
We’re going to need a full bloopers reel at some point 😁
I'm hoping to move to Montreal after school and I love watching these videos. Really interesting!
Don't
I did the same thing and it was one of the best decisions of my life looking back 20 years later. I moved away after a couple years to explore elsewhere, then came back for a couple years, then moved away and now am back for good.. After living all across Canada and 2 other continents this is by far the best City I have ever been to.
Its a nice city but make sure you move to the city as the suburbs are basically the same as any other north american city
Good stuff, Paige!
A very sensible piece!
A small correction : the STM is not really controlled by the city, but there are many checks and balances (approval and financing linked to Montreal - but also the ARTM; Board members named by council) but operations are generally managed independently. The STM also sits in its HQ at Place Bonaventure.
That said, your videos are awesome. Thanks so much for this contribution to the community.
If you ever have inquiries regarding the city, feel free to get in touch!
Cheers!
Great video! Thank you.
very intersting video about a very clear view of the city,,, or the island, or both,, ;)
Amazing content!
This is so good!
Excellent video!
Great material for designing a city in context of worldbuilding.
Just a fun fact, Westmount is a lot more independent than the other municipalities. It has its own hydro and security force, has by-laws that prohibit motorcycles, alcohol in parks, and bicycles in parks. Also their traffic lights have all pedestrians cross at the same time, so you can cross diagonally.
Coming from Quebec city I can tell you pedestrian crossing all at the same time is a pain, you have to wait forever. Also despite it you are not supposed to cross a street diagonally which mean you should wait forever twice.
That is interesting, I do like looking for changing road signs, bins and lampposts as you move around the island.
@@PaigeMTL He makes an interesting point but it's not exactly correct, though. I grew up in the West-Island, and I have to say Westmount is no more independent than the municipalities further west, especially along the shores of Lac St-Louis and Rivière des Mille-Îles.
From the westernmost point, Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, Baie-d'Urfé, Beaconsfield, Pointe-Claire, Dorval and Lachine line up on the Montréal-Toronto axis, which dates back to the original Chemin du Roy (the very first road if I'm not mistaken?) and had a lot of time to develop independently from the rest.
These, plus those along the Riviere des Milles-Îles : Senneville, Ste-Geneviève-Île-Bizard & Pierrefonds-Roxboro (these last two are now arrondissements of Ville de Mtl), as well as Kirkland and DDO in the middle part of the w-i, all have this independant character in varying degrees.
It's mostly the fact that the metro system doesn't reach there, nor do most the roads due to the massive industrial area spanning from Dorval airport all the way to the CP rail yard, and from highway 20 to the Bois-de-Liesse north of highway 40 (effectively taking up most of the space between the W-I and the western slope of Mt. Royal, where Montreal-West/CSL/NDG/Hampstead begin). So we really only share some bus lines and the SPVM with Montreal - although that's still what makes the W-I completely unique.
I heard that Westmount has heated sidewalks that make the ice and snow melt. Is that true lol?
@@louisd.8928 nope. not at all. Their roads are as bad as the rest of ours.
The things I didn't even know about my own City...Sad...Thanks!
13:58 Ottawa!!
hahaha I couldn't with the Chambly Demographics lmaoo
Très intéressant 👌
This should come with a warning: I choked on my dinner. Bloody brilliant!
Great and well thought out video!
Very well put together. Interesting. Merci.
Hi there, if I may be so bold as to bring a correction to your otherwise great video, Montreal's name origin is from the francisation of 'monte', which means mountain and 'real', meaning royal in latin.
(french speaker here) : Gorgeous video ! Thank you for this high quality video
5:55 most major city airports don’t really have airports within their cities
Good video and keep up with your practice. I admire you for making the extra effort by using the official French names. Like Demosthenes, you’ll make it! 🌟
During my geography studies, the honest use of mathematics and statistics was drilled into us. Especially a good sample size, accurate comparison of data, and that correlation is not causation.
Because if something isn’t honest, it’s not scientific, nor educational, nor interesting.
As Mark Twain satirically said, “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
Great comment, with one caveat. The misuse of numbers and stats for the purpose of propaganda is itself very interesting, and can be construed as educational in its own rights (but that would obviously be the focus of studies in one field of the humanities or the other).
Lou Dem: great reply and I also agree. In fact I would say contrasting the incorrect (or dishonest) use of data and the correct use (and even the honest but clumsy use) are necessary to understand statistics.
And if one can properly detach one’s self, studying propaganda is fascinating (sorry if I sound Vulcan🖖🏼).
All about learning from mistakes and how to avoid them.
Stats in geography is also found in topics like gerrymandering.
Sure the loss of fairly wealthy boroughs sucks for tax reasons but from a political standpoint I'm happy they don't get to vote here cause if they did we'd most probably still have Coderre as mayor. And we all know this would've been a disaster. And this is coming from someone who grew in one of those municipalities and who voted for Coderre (twice). Yes, we all make mistakes and sometimes we need to make that mistake more than once to learn from it.
When my sister and I moved here from the West Coast, we also choked over saying "mountain". Loved that you brought that out. I still arrange sentences to get the whole "Mount-Royal" into the mix.
Whereas for me, having moved here from the western Prairies, Mount Royal is basically the equivalent of Mont Blanc. In fact, driving up Côte-des-Neiges with a succession of green lights will make my ears pop as if I were going through an alpine pass 😮
I call it Bump Royal on occasion, especially when leaving or coming in on a plane.
That said, after getting to know De Burcht, that prominent elevation from whose giddying heights one can survey all of surrounding Leiden, and of which said city is so proud it was enclosed in a wall, “The Mountain” comes over as positively alpine.
I don't think anybody calls it "Town of Mont-Royal". It's either Town of Mount Royal (in English) or Ville de Mont-Royal (in French).
TMR
This is my weird hybrid French, I want to avoid saying Ville because I associate that with Ville de Montreal. But then Mount Royal sounds wrong to me now.
I've never heard anyone call it Mont Royal, town or ville. Everyone I know just calls it Plateau
@@twisterwombat The Plateau Mont-Royal is something else, this is TMR. "North" of Outremont.
@@twisterwombat You are confusing the Plateau Mont-Royal with Ville Mont-Royal.
Yeah, it's the city I was born in.
4.5 lollll
I disagree with your conclusion that "Montreal" is the 4 million that includes the way-off-island people, but I liked your video anyways! Nice work =D
As for language, I think the more interesting statistic is what % of people in the 2 million know how to speak English and French. I think you'll find that it is very high. Diversity in culture and language is what makes Montreal strong. Anyone who opposes different languages is NOT a Montrealer.
I live in Two Mountains (officially Deux-Montagnes) on the North Shore, that little peninsula poking into the western end of Laval, and though that’s where I say I live to make it clear for other people in the region, like so many others it’s as much a commuter suburb as anything else, for people outside the region I’m from Montreal.
I have had that argument in a bar soooo many times over the past 15 years. (I've been aware of the statistics the whole time). Some people are quite happy to use the statistic that suits their viewpoint and ignore the others.
One small correction. You said "No one calls it the CIty of Montreal". A lot of anglos still do. Since the Bill 101 days, government institutions in Quebec don't have bilingual names, but they did for nearly two centuries beforehand, including things like the "City of Montreal", the "Montreal Police Service" and the "Montreal Transit Corporation". Even provincial institutions ("Ministry of Education") were bilingual and had English and French names until the 1960s.
The Ministry of Education in Québec was created in 1964. Before that it was all run by the Catholic Church. Your argument don't make any sense.
Hey, when did STCUM Become STM?
A couple of decades ago at the least, when the old Montreal Urban Community (MUC)/Communauté urbaine de Montréal (CUM) was replaced by the original all-island single merged city created by the PQ.
Well done video, with good research. Pretty balanced, too. However, there are two points I'd like to make:
1) the "demergers" of the early 2000 had a stronger linguistic dimension than what you're implying. Yes, it's true that those municipalities were on the whole richer and did not want to share their wealth (if I may say so) with the rest of the island. But Outremont, a very well-off, mostly francophone municipality, chose to accept to merge with the larger city. The point is, most anglophones in the West Island wanted to retain their control over their municipality, a control they would have lost if they had been part of the Ville de Montréal. In other words, they wanted to keep their English-speaking fiefs. This lingusitic dimension is, in my view, the main reason why the demergers took place... of course, the PLQ with Jean Charest made it possible because they were pandering to their electoral base. Too bad... meanwhile, the mergers in Ontario made Toronto enormous.
2) saying that Montreal metro region is NOT becoming more English (or that it's just a matter of using statistics to prove your point) is putting your head in the sand. I'm in my 50s and I can tell you that in many, many neighborhoods (even cities, Laval being the best example), English is now the normal language of interaction; 20 years ago, it was French. Just look at the results of provincial elections: a generation ago, you could expect the PQ to win most counties in Laval;, now, those counties are always won by the Liberals, no other party (CAQ, QS or PQ) can expect to carry them.
Your comment about "all the arrondissements traded their independent municipality status for an arrondissement status" isn't quite accurate. For example, Le Sud-Ouest only came into being in 2002, but was already a part of Montreal, just as separate districts. See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sud-Ouest#History ; other boroughs were areas that were annexed by the City of Montreal decades earlier, or were reorganized districts just like Le Sud-Ouest or Ahuntsic-Cartierville.
I started that sentence off with "I think" for a reason, I wanted to avoid going into and verifying the history of the whole island. I assume it's obvious that arrondissements like Le Sud-Ouest are collections of municipalities or broken up parts of old municipalities.
@@PaigeMTL Another reason for the reaction against the forced municipal mergers is that under PQ-passed laws, if the number of English-speakers in a town falls below a certain percent, they cannot offer any services in English - so English speaking towns, which have operated bilingually for decades, could no longer provide basic services in English after they were forced-merged with neighbouring French-speaking towns (or merged into greater Montreal). The move was openly made in order to reduce access to services in English, even in what had been majority English-speaking towns. I live in a town that is close to 50-50 anglo / franco. We demerged as soon as we could -- We're good with being bilingual.
"Real" Madrid C.F.
Wow! This is one of those things I assumed from when I was a kid and heard the name on the news for the first time, then as I grew up never reinvestigated because I don't follow sports etc.
I assumed that was a translation of a Spanish name, and that there were rival teams in Madrid with one of them calling themselves "Real" Madrid and I guess the other not being famous enough to get mentioned. Like Manchester United and Manchester City.
I love it when you get one of these.
There are actually Montréal several towns and castles named Montréal in France, all but a couple of them in Occitania, that broad swath of France south of an arc going from Bordeaux in the west to roughly where France, Switzerland and Italy meet in the east. In Occitan, the original language still spoken by many (even myself), “royal” is reial of reiau, so these towns and castles, in this bumpier part of France, are called Montreial or Montreiau in Occitan, which French just reinterpreted to look more French-like.
No no, people in Laval are actually easy to distinguish. You can spot them because they just figured out that emo and hipster are things (or were, 15 years ago, which is where Laval exists in the space-time continuum). Oh, and they smell too. Signed: A proud Montrealer ;)
Omg I pissed a little at that. So true.
Most municipalities did not trade their "independence" as you say at 3:10. They got forced to become part of Montréal by the government of Québec, and then, at a latter date, after some protests, the government allowed some of them went their own separate ways. Mont Royal is one of those. Quite honestly, I think the government needs to go back and deal with this issue once and for all. The fact is that having so many administrations on and around the island is creating issues, such as having dozens of public transport utilities that do not talk to each other, sometime duplicate service, or do not provide service in corridors where it would be beneficial, because it's "outside of their little garden". It's ridiculous. The groups that forced the burrows to split into multiple smaller entities are the same groups that are hard balling zoning laws, the same groups that tried to kill the REM, the same groups who rail against traffic, but ultimately foster the car culture through their narrow mindedness. Theses Nimbys seriously need to be knocked down a peg and have change forced on them. I'm certain that they'll enjoy having a metro service once the REM is completed. Force enough change, and they might see the light and start demanding more of it. At least, that's my hope.
Try watching the whole way through
@@PaigeMTL but but but that would require investing an extra 11 minutes of time.. Why do that when you can get into an ill-informed argument with a stranger on the internet after just 4 minutes?
Mount Royal is not a volcano. Excellent video.
Did you read the sign at the top too? It's an erroded extrusion from a volcanic complex... Which I'm always simply going to call a volcano
@Paige Saunders: Indeed. I’m a geographer, I can confirm.
One can be picky, but it’s all generally volcanism.
Whether the hotspot broke through like mount Etna or just had geysers like Yellowstone, it definitely was a hot place for a while.
The hotspot then moved in east and then started bubbling up where mount St-Bruno was to be.
By the way, île Ste-Hélène is Mount Royal’s little volcanic brother.
@@mr51406 It's not a volcano. Magma was solidified inside the earth's crust, then exposed through erosion. If we were to call this a volcano then half the planet would be a "volcano".
@@PaigeMTL It's called a pluton, a failed volcano that never broke the surface. Later the soft rock eroded away around the harder volcanic rock. The Monteregian Hills are part of a chain of plutons, probably associated with a hotspot. They include Mt Rigaud, probably the Oka Hills, Mt Royal, Mt St-Bruno, Mt St-Hilaire, Rougemont, Mt St-Gregoire, Mt Yamaska, Mt Gale and Mt Brome (probably a single pluton), Mt Shefford, perhaps Mt Orford (edit: no, but Mt Megantic is part of the chain), but by then you are in the Appalachians and the plutons are mixed in with the folded ocean crust and sedimentary deposits that make up the Appalachians. In the Atlantic off the coast of New England you can see a chain of seamounts continuing in a vaguely similar bearing, so there is a theory that the Monteregian Hills may have been formed by the continent drifting over an ancient hotspot, like Hawaii or Yellowstone, but considerably less impressive than those two.
Paige Saunders Howdy Mr. Saunders, there was a reason that I indicated that you made an excellent video; I loved it! It was extremely interesting , and I came to learn a lot about the management of the local counties, municipalities and regions that made me think about Montréal in new ways politically, economically and environmentally. I will take that I may be seen as pedantic, but you are quite a thoughtful intellectual yourself, thus attracting like people who wish to learn to your channel. People who may just want to be entertained, on this subject, may find you to be pedantic in your areas of interest, but that perception would be mistaken, for their perceived “minor details” are not so within the purpose and context of your creative and instructive videos. Moreover, when these same people get into their areas of interests, they may seem scrupulous about details that we might gloss over. I was not trying to be a dick; I know that a well-produced video is hard to research, and make. I am certainly no geologist, but I think that Montreal’s geological history is fascinating and germane to its human development and the surrounding municipalities. I wrote my note in the hopes that you might do a video on that, as it also has historical, agricultural, economic, implications that effect how the region is today with French, English, and Indigenous people (not to mention Americans with the waterway to the Great Lakes). I wish to thank Alex Plante, and all those who replies to my comment, for their explications about the family of “mountains” that make up this beautiful part of the world. The tropical sea that used to be here, and the retreating ice sheet that created islands at this convergence of rivers all played their roles. So, with all of your many thoughtful videos, teaching me so many things that I did not know, I just want to say, “Thank You,” and please continue your fascinating and well-done work. Cheers!
The Weeknd
Like Jerusalem but with languages instead of religion
I'm a third of the way through the video.. but I just wanted to point out, in case I forget. That the municipalities that aren't apart of Montreal still pay taxes since the divorce. But have no right to vote. Hence, taxation without representation. Valerie Plant even mentioned a reason why the West Island wouldn't be getting a metro is because we didn't vote in the election. --- yet we pay taxes.
I have to correct this because it's misleading. You pay taxes to the municipality you live in. For example here is Westmount's tax instructions westmount.org/en/taxation-valuation who then contribute to various agglomeration level expenses: ville.montreal.qc.ca/pls/portal/docs/page/service_fin_fr/media/documents/budget_2020_pti_2020_2022_fr.pdf
That municipality then represents you on the Council de Agglomeration in proportion to your population: ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=5798,86001592&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
This happens like this because it's a different organisation. The people in your municipality voted not to be in the Ville, so they can't expect the politicians of the Ville to work for them. Instead the politicians in the Ville work with the politicians that work for you because that's representative democracy. This situation can be remedied, by joining the Ville. Being in has benefits, being out has benefits.
Also you're probably not getting a metro line because you're getting the REM which is functionally a metro line. Building an underground rubber tired metro line to the far reaches of the West island would cost at least 15 billion dollars, even if you were in the Ville this would never happen with the population density that currently exists there.
@@PaigeMTL Wow. Thank you for letting me know about the representation in the Council de Agglomeration! I had no idea!
You definitely educated me further. Thank you!
@@NB_703 you're awesome for handling my sassy response so well, I think I was a bit curt and lecturey sorry
Paige Saunders it didn’t come off that way :) just more useful info!
@@PaigeMTL I think because we read your sassy response in a Kiwi accent that diffuses it's sassiness by a few degrees.
30 sec in and already a fake fact. The Mont Royal never was a volcano. It was most likely created by a hotspot but never was active volcanically. Just like all the other Montérégiennes.
Edit: but I really enjoyed the rest of the video. Great job overall.