I never use headphones to listen to music. I only use a cheap earphones when I'm on UA-cam in my old laptop and this is how I have listen the tracks in this video. The first track has more mid-bass/bass and the sound is full but is muffled. The second track is thinner but airy and clear.
Well put! PS , headphones can be really good! ALL recordings are an illusion of reality (fake), it's never going to sound perfectly natural! Second part is my opinion only, the first part is true!
As soon as I heard the 2nd track it was immediately apparent to me of the differences. Of course I didn't know which included the isolation enhancement, but my obvious preference was the first track. Track 1 had greater tone, clarity, transparency and resolution. I was actually surprised that the differences could be so easily detected.
*Important comment!* *De-coupling of counterweight* - I just made a major discovery, a major tweak for any turntable at a LOW cost! having followed Alex Korf's research showing how vibrations are passed on from cartridge to tonearm and ultimately exciting the counterweight. Measuring the counterweight individually with accelerometer and vibrameter shows how the counterweight behaves like an antenna, receiving vibrations. - The counterweight in turn then radiates vibrations and it's own resonances back into the tonearm and cartridge. The tweak is simple, easy and cheap. - You take the counterweight off and coat the 'insides' of it's hole with 100.000 cst Silicone oil and then also coat the tonearm stub where the counterweight attatches. You then put the counterweight back on and drive it back and forth a few times, and rub off any excess silicone oil. Now you have decoupled the counterweight from the Tonearm, this causes major improvement in the 10-20khz region - upper-extension, soundstaging and whatnot, the change is straight up jaw dropping!!! It's like experiencing Gaia for the first time again! This mod is completely reversibel, as the coating can easily be cleaned off with alcohol solvents. Also 100.000 cst is the perfect viscosity, as it will stay in place as a coat, and will not start dripping down. Also - there is no need to be worried that you will somehow "over-dampen" your tonearm as there is absolutely no argument for why vibrations should be passed on to the counterweight. In an ideal world there wouldn't be a counterweight, instead a tonearm long enough that it would be able to balance while the cart is installed - while also exhibiting the perfect VTF for the cartridge. My mod removes the counterweight, without actually having to physically remove it.
BTW, track 1 is fuller and warmer in sound, I guess that's when you used vibration reduction. Track 2 sounds thinner and colder in sound, more digital (I know, there's still digital conversion involved with track 1, but it seems like the 1st track was affected less by YT conversion).
@@ShivaNatarajaASMR we have a lot of work furniture and I like the black granite and its grain as a contrast. Plus the work top savers are the perfect size for what I want.
@@stephenmkeer Yeah, granite is stunning. I love it! I’m looking into why an ancient structure was built in a certain way...it has a carved wooden wall, then an airspace, then granite. I read that perforated (or carved) wood with an airspace behind it will dampen sound in medium to high range and absorb bass. I learned that granite and wood are anisotropic-wood more so than granite. So I wonder...would carved/perforated wood, an airspace and granite make a difference?? The point to the ancient structure was perhaps to keep the sound waves in the structure, not sure yet. Maybe in this case though, it should be granite, airspace, then perforated wood facing the turntable and then another airspace, then the turntable? Or perhaps the wood on the bottom with carvings facing away from turntable... Not sure, but I think it’s worth a go if anyone has a piece of wood with some carvings on one side and a piece of granite!😊Maybe it doesn’t apply though because in the case of the turntable, you are trying to keep vibrations from traveling to the turntable, not trying to keep the sound waves produced by the turntable isolated...I dunno. Any thoughts, anyone?🙏
I used a heavy walnut cutting board, sized 12x17” from AtHome for $29 and a set of Sorbothane feet ($29) under my table and it made a huge difference. I have old fashioned wood floors over crawl space, so vibration mitigation is always a struggle in my room.
I listened to each track three times because it was hard to define the differences even though I did hear them. My final analysis is that the first track was more balanced, very natural, better tonality and less congested then the second track.
Well, that was clear even through UA-cam on my phone. I will definitly get the Delos. I already bought a very stable rack. I will probably also get tje Gaia feet for my speakers. Thank you so much, Guido!
Waow! I have been using both Isoacoustics aperta, Gaia and the Zazen for years! I remember demonstrating them to my dad (rip) for the first time, when I had the Gaia 3 installed under my loudspeakers, - his jaw dropped to the floor when he heard it. He said it was a day and night difference, you can never go back afterwards. It's the truth, HiFi without Gaia isn't HiFi. What a nice surprise that you actually know about the Isoacoustics de-coupling aswell, my faith in your judgement was greatly improved now! My general experience is, that if you just maintain the weight of the Loudspeaker or turntable within the rated specs of the Isoacouatics you'll get the full benefit. The Zazen 1 is rated for 11 kg, a regular Technics turntable is 9 kg, the Delos with 6 feet is absolute overkill, unless your turntable is made of solid unobtainiun. I'm willing to say that the Delos (compared to Zazen) will be more "dead" with it's increased mass, that will reduce excitations passed on from surface to turntable. But the whole point of the feet is that the block is nearly completely de-coupled and won't be excited by vibrations..! Instead of buying the Delos, all that money should have been thrown into the cartridge instead, and just go for the Zazen, to get the highest ROI. This is my opinion atleast I'm that kinda guy that removes every single Capacitor in my Tube-amp and solder in Mundorf Supreme M-cap Silver-gold-oil instead.
i liked the first track, more detail and very deep.to me there was big big different with track 2 and also speaker was important to demonstrate this issue .
Second track has less distortion. The bigger distortion for the turntables is the sound wave from the speakers which created vibration direct to the vinyl plate. (If you are not living over the train station ) This big piece of wood plate with the polished surface just will reflect the sound wave from the speakers and will send it under the turntable to create interference and diffraction and more vibrations on the turntable. Also the homogeneous materials not killing successful vibration. No 1 vibration killer is cast iron , No 2 -is marble , No 3 is chipboard. So If you use chipboard plate , glued from both sides with a rubber foam for gimm exercises will be much more effective.
That is mumbo jumbo, the sound wave emitted from the loudspeaker will excite the turntable regardless. And it will reflect from a flat piece of marble, cast iron and walnut tree in roughly the same manner. The Isoacouatics de-coupling is measurebly far superior to whatever you're using. It's nearly the same as having the danm turntable suspended from bungie-ropes, as proven by measurements.
The difference is in the equalisation of sound. Track 1 was more open and spacious sounding. Track two had better dynamics and weight to the sound. In hi-fi terms track one sounds more impressive. In terms of musicality track 2 is better (listen to the cello's depth of tone). Both tracks had their pros and cons. Isolation tweaks can be a double edged sword where they improve sound in one aspect, and degrade in another. One of the most neutral and effective isolation products is a slab of decoupled MDF. I know I know its not an exotic or expensive solution but tends to be tonally neutral due to its flat Q in the midrange without any peaks. Solid wood (depending on type) has tend to have Q peaks. Another way of looking at it is that isolation devices perform like mechanical graphic equalisers which is dependent on the q of the isolating material. This results in the emphasis of certain frequencies at the expense of others.
Hi, I picked the correct track even listening using an iPhone ! I have had a problem with vibration, I think it’s a bad floor board area under my rack. The room is carpeted throughout. Even when i just tapped my foot the tone arm on my LP12 jumped.My final solution was to place washing machine vibration dampers ( 4 ) under a piece of 24mm thick MDF board ( 600 x 400mm ) on top of which I placed 8 sorbathane hemispheres on top of which was my very heavy highly recommended 5 shelf rack. The linn LP12 was placed on the top shelf, with the feet replaced with 4 more a sorbathane hemispheres. I can now jump next to the rack with problems. You have to use the correct size and hardness sorbathane hemispheres for the weight of your equipment. Everything is now ok and sounds great. Regards Richard Herbert
Well, maple is just more hard and dampens better vibrations...but it's quite ugly. It's no surprise that Isoacoustics released only the maple on the beginning and only after some time they mare the more appealing version in walnut.
Love your intro & room ambience! This ol' dog couldn't hear any difference using bose noise cancelling ear buds (noise cancel in on position). Another great vlog hearing about, as always, informative info!
I wasn't expecting a lot, but even with speakers the first track seemed to be vaguely better, so I switched to headphones: the difference seems to be at the same time small and big, small when you consider the whole music, big when you consider each note. It is quite clear to me in my synaesthesia image: each note here is like a bamboo cane, but in the first case they are tightly packed, while in the second they are just a loose stack laid to the corner of a room.
I definitely notice the difference between track 1 and 2, track 1 was much Fuller! As a kicker, I am listening to this Thru my speakers on my Galaxy S20SE! So if I can hear the difference how much more with a good speaker 🔊 system. Thank you for the demonstration.
I’ve got a 1 inch particleboard table top then 1 1/4“ x 3“ diameter rubber stoppers underneath a slab of granite. Then I have magnetic floating feet on top of the granite supporting a 9mm acrylic sheet with the turntable on top of rubber stoppers on top of that acrylic.
Nice TT! You can always do better, especially with tts. Amps? Absolutely! Even something simple but it is recommended. Capacitors can create microphonic noise in the signal...here in this video I discussed about the issues in general terms and also added a scientific paper on the topic in the video description: ua-cam.com/video/UYMbi7v2pNU/v-deo.html
Interestingly I thought track 1 was less open, but with a slightly fuller sound. Track 2 appealed more at the start, sounding a little more detailed, but ultimately seemed slightly more distant. After a few listens I think I prefer track 1 over all, but there’s not a lot in it. Not on my £25 Sony headphones anyway.
Whoa. I was thinking that buying that big chunk of wood was a bit too excessive but the difference is freakin noticeable! Lets say that track 2 sounds as if Starker was playing the cello in the bathroom or en empty warehouse , a lot of echo and reverb, the sound so thin and distant. Whereas on Track 1 it sounds as if he was in the room. Although, I must say, vinyl's surface noise was also more noticeable. Holy Moly.
Thanks for all your nice videos. Amazing. I watch your videos a lot. What I want to ask is if you do have any experience with walker audio products. They are very expensive. Do they really improve or is it snake oil? I cannot test them. Would be glad to hear about it. Thank you.
Bass was clean and louder too Track 2 was compressed. I have tried using PU rods under my turntable by using heavy block of wood approx 10kg and it works better 10yrs back.
I was surprised to hear an ever so slight difference. Take 1 sounds slightly grittier and extended. Are you positive these are both normalized and completely identical besides the Delos pad? The deeper note sounds a bit louder here: 8:169:01 It would have been interesting to see the waveforms of both, you can probably see the difference if you can hear it as well.
Absolutely but as I have learned in recent years, true loudness and perceived loudness and two different things. The Youlean software certifies that they are identical.
thank you for going over this need for dense vibration and good feet. I have recently finished building a media wall for my albums, speakers and electronic components. I built in my floor 15" MTX loudspeakers. Impressive listening to everything...but Albums. I realized today that the basic 1"pine shelving that I used to make my built in electronics stand transfers a TON of vibration through the wood to the record player. ugh. the shelf to the touch can be felt vibrating. such an oversight. Your information has given me a new direction to take.
@@anadialog the kg they can handle is based on a single piece, so if a paritcular pod can handle up to 3,6kg and my turntable weights 10kg I'm gonna need 4 of them, right?
They use them under a lot of stuff. Remember though that vibrapods dampen, in gear like speakers or amps I think the best is to decouple, like isoacouatics et similia, IMO.
Headphones or speakers, after all the sound goes through to make it to this page, who knows what you are hearing? However, take a vibration meter to the surface of a record and you will see a great deal of difference. While the turntable suspension is the most critical, adding isolation devices such as this does help. Even if the sound doesn't change, it is such a pleasure to have someone stomp their foot or unintentionally tap the shelf the turntable is on and the record does not skip at all. THAT is why I isolate my turntable (which already has a suspension such that I can press my finger on the base and bounce it and the needle doesn't move at all).
Uh, that's way too much to spend on a chunk of wood with the nice feet. I honestly could not tell the difference as it may just be the way you recorded them. I've been suspending my turntables for years (since the 80s) and for me and it works great. I have my turntables on a piece of wood with an inner tube between it and the hanging platform. I use a small piece of a plastic tube under the inner tube to relieve and possible pressure on the inside circle of the tube. I use Sorbothane Vibration Isolation Circular Pad 50 Duro .25 in thick under each footpad for extra vibration control. And yes, the platform is completely level.
The hi-fi shop I normally go to did a test by attaching 4 GAIA III feet to a fairly inexpensive maple cutting board. Did their test with a Planar 3 turntable. Yes, the difference was clear. Man I love those GAIA III feet. I use them on my Monitor Audio floor standers and it took about 3 seconds to hear the difference and my speakers are not high end. As far as my turntable, I have a sprung turntable and I made a 2 part wall mounted shelf. It's 2 parts so I can adjust the level of the upper shelf. Under the adjusting feet use sorbothane pads and then under the turntables feet I made 4 feet using the same sorbothane pads sandwiched between pieces of aluminum round bar. They look nice and for me they really seem to work.
It also really helps that we start with the well dampened Technics SL-1200 family turntable. I have one too and I love it. Compared to the 3 point spring suspended sub-chasis in a box style turntables like Linn, the special foot isolation eliminates certain outside vibrations, like floor footsteps, really well, much better. But other vibrations, like loud bass in the room are better isolated in a suspended sub-chasis. It's the classic dilemma in HiFi. Everything is a compromise.
Yes I agree the iso feet under my kef reference 5 made a great difference so I put some under a nice bit of wood then put on my technics sl 1200 g also worth the money . ISO feet can be expensive but if your gear is 30k than it’s not so expensive for what you get back in sound
You don't need iso on speakers. Speakers shouldn't move. It is only the coils that move. There is no point isolating them. They only need a sturdy stand. The difference you heard is your thoughts and it is placebo.
Thanks for video. I got bass loop on my Gates TT and looking for solution I found your video. From your 2 samples I don’t like neither. The first one has a lot of echoes probably because of wooden platform which has some resonance, second track missing details of this nice record. Hope your EMT sounds better.
Maybe, but can say for sure. Try moving the turntable on anything else and see if the sound changes. If it does it means you can control it. Otherwise it is probably an internal problem.
Some episodes ago, you sell your old phono amp. Do you got another one in the meantime? Do you know BLUE AMP? I would like to get some information about it. BR
Sorbothane is an incredible isolator. Audioquest sells it in small sheets. I have my turntable on a Mission isolation platform that must be 30 years old. It has 4 round feet made of plastic & Sorbothane. It's worked very well. Don't think it cost me more than $40 back then but if you are wealthy audiophile or an idiot like me I would probably give this wood isolation board a good look and possibly buy it. Even though I am very sure that my board is at least 90% as good as this big one. Some thing about the Sobothane.
I listened with the samsung phones akg tuned earphones. They're pretty flat and detailed and there's a huge difference! From the begining, the first track sounded very precise. So much depth, so much more tonality to the cello. If the recordings were made exactly the same, this is a huge difference!
I liked track 2 better the first listen through. But the second listen through I listened to track 2 first and then I listened to track 1 and liked it better. In Track 1 if feels as if the instrument is right in the room, and Track 2 sounds like a really relaly nice recording of the same instrument.
It depends on the rest of your tract. And personal preferences. With Clearaudio turntable and MC cart thru solid state linear phono to Harbeth 30.2 monitors I choose more relaxed version without dellos. Cause I'm already have a sufficient level of transparency.
There is a big difference to my ears, more detail with. My solution is - I had a slab of granite cut, this is mounted on sorbothane feet. The turntable sits on the granite on spikes
One of the best free d.i.y. solutions and cure i heard regarding turntable isolations and vibrations was from a very old guy i knew. He had his turntable installed in a room opposite to his listening and equipment area. He had designed his own special damped arm lift/ cueing device . Timed to perfection so by the time he got to his listening seat the tone arm just met the run in groove of the record . He used special low loss, long run tonearm phono signal cable of his own making connected to the pre amp in the other room . I wish now i had asked him more details of what he did and actually used . Sadly too late now as he has now passed away .
He could have just have the preamp the same room as the turntable, then run balanced cables from the preamp. Much less expensive than unbalanced phono cables. Ridiculous how much people make out of these things. It is totally snake oil.
If you're looking for a decent but cheaper alternative for the Isoaccoustics Delos, you should try a thick wooden chopping board like the Ikea Aptitlig and put some Vibrapods under it. By adding Vibrapod Cones, you can improve your improvised isolation platform even further.
@@anadialog Ah interesting, I have some of those Vibrapods, but never tried those cones. The experiences with those cones appears differ between people quite much.
Hey, I did hear that track 1 is slightly better than track2. That’s my opinion and that’s what I heard, I am using my iPad Pro via usb to AQ Dragonfly RED feeding Schiit Preamp
I did have a preference for Track 1. It seemed (for lack of a better word) fuller. I hear that tennis balls, sawed precisely in half, are a great (and cheap) dampening solution. (3 half tennis balls, not 4.) (And I listened to the compressed UA-cam sound of your video on an old MacBook Pro connected to Creative X-Fi USB external sound card (set to flat, i.e. Crystalizer and CMSS-3D both switched off) connected to Cambridge SoundWorks PCWorks 2.1 powered speakers. So not exactly a "high end" setup, but, apparently, revealing/resolving enough...)
The first track did sound better to me. Cant explain the difference,the second one sounded good,just maybe slightly cut off or muted a little. Either way thanks for the videos, it does help some of us to make a more educated decision on cost versus benefits
For my Turntable a combination of a heavier plinth( 7.5 Kg instead of 1kg), New carbon steel sub-chassis suspension springs, and the most dramatic improvement came from installing Isonoe Isolation feet( not cheap). MY TT rack sits on Parquet, which until adding the Isonoe feet, meant I could not walk near the TT as the Tonearm would bounce over the record ( typical experience with a Suspended sub chassis TT on Parquet). Now I can jump next to the TT and there is no reaction. Originally the feet were produced for DJs TTs so they are designed for extreme vibration environments.
Well, I preferred track #2, listening through the earphone connected to the i-phone ... so that’s nor trustful. I do use Gaia isoacoustics isolators under my speakers, and they really improve the sound as compared to nothing. But compared to the original speaker spikes, there’s not much difference ... I also use a wood rack, specifically made for audio equipments, under my gear, and isolator feet under the TT, but haven’t tried this isoacoustics maple. I think I’ll try that! Great video, as usual!!
You could hear some difference in track one.... but you need to remove the rubber bottom feet from the sl1200 for a solid foot to couple the TT to the iso platform for it to work as designed
I had some wood lying around (not walnut). I, as a fun project, tried to make my own cheap Isoacoustic Delos replica. It's not as heavy, used superspikes instead of dempers but I was very surprised at the impact. It made a noticable improvement already. A little more detail and wider sound. So I believe the real Delos could make a even better improvement. But with less than 100 euro investment I am very pleased with the improvent it made.
Nice! Good job! The Delos is just an example (just too expensive) so I am glad you tried this and experimented. I would try a damping solution further ahead. Thanks for the feedback!
@@anadialog Thanks, yes I will try a damping solution later. I choose the superspikes for now because my turntable feet are not adjustable. So I have to do some more DIY first to make the feet adjustable, than replace the superspikes.
Definitely different between tracks. If i may suggest something. The problem with the way your doing the test with a microphone or cell phone it blurs the test results because your listening to a good part of the sound bouncing around in the room with a lower quality microphone. Booming bass in obe test could simply sound deeper in a recording of the room with the speakers in the room. The correct way to do this kind of test in disconnect the turn table from your preamp and plug the turntable and phono stage into an analog to usb digital decoder (about $40) and using a usb cable pluged into a laptop record the results to the laptop, this way you hear the turntable directly without interference of the room or a low quality microphone blurring the results. The software to do this is free and plentiful. Many people to this to archive there records.
This is a classical music recording. The record itself is like that, with reverberation. Unfortunately we are used to pop music which is always upfront. I obviously converted and recorded the signal coming from my phono preamp.
I have the feeling you didn't understand what I wrote. I recorded the music directly from the phono preamplifier. It is not an environmental recording. You thought it was environmental because of the reverb.
Everything well installed, sound is good, but when "Itouch the turntable cabinet ", it works like a mike through the loudspeakers (resonance); (turntable is Project-Audio Classic Evo with Audio Technica VM95Shibata, Yamaha RX-A3050 and Focal Aria 948 loudspeakers on a Lovan Rack)...
Oh yeah! Just through my secondary system/computer/stereo I could *CLEARLY* tell the difference, no comparison! The first track was so open, full, and lovely, absolutely. However, $500 is just way too much for me. Interestingly, I just added a long piece of slate underneath my turntable because I wanted more room to put my two phono amps, the IFI Phono 2 and the all tube LittleBear T11. What was unexpected was that on my system, suddenly all my albums sounded brighter and it kind of alarmed me. I realized that the resonance of the slate was apparently greatly affecting the sound, kind of a 'Ringing' effect. I had that once on a Rega TT I had about 40 years ago with a glass platter (bad idea!) So, yes, I also was now looking into some kind of dampening. Many have suggested the dense wooden blocks you can get from Ikea. BUT... I remembered that I had ordered these little 2x2 inch squares which were specifically made to control TT vibrations. I put a set under the feet of the TT, between the TT and the slate. I (THANKFULLY!) immediately noticed a much better, non-bright sound. I have another 3 left so I put 2 under each of the 3 feet of the British Revolver TT I have. Ah... now, everything sounds much better. I'm not sure if I should also pursue even more dampening, but for now, that fairly inexpensive ($25 for 12 pieces - I also put 4 under the slate between the top of my rack and the slate) adjustment REALLY made a big difference. I wonder if i can indeed dial it in even better, but WITHOUT spending $500! 😁
I've had the poor man solution: an IKEA's bamboo wood plain with isolation feet under my Rega P3. Even if not efficient as the Delos I've had a nice improvement on sound. Nice one Guido.
I simply cut 4 pieces of memory foam, placed it under the feet of my record record player ....problem solved . Noticed better sound quality over all to be honest.
Thank you as always. I hear a clear difference in track 1 & 2 ... I find track 1 more detailed. So clearly 1 to me. Peace and love and of course High end. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht. Music is born Analog ... ✌😘👌👍😉
for me the second track sounded better but only marginally. I was listening on my PC/speakers/headphones setup, maybe on my hifi system it would be different. For the price I would be looking at getting a separate phono stage instead. As mentioned elsewhere, a wooden bamboo chopping board like the Ikea Aptitlig with some gel feet is a cheap alternative. If it doesnt work out you can always use it in the kitchen
yes even with a very low quality headphone connected on my computer I could identify a slightly better sound on track 1 : more aerial , better definition .not easy but if your ears are trained you can hear it . daniel
I have (maybe) the best solution, as idea, concept. Everyone's jar would fall to the ground, if I anounce it here. But, it isn't protected, is it worth of making prototype? Is there a market for this technology, anyway?
@@anadialog Well, as every genius solution it is relatively simply as concept. Harder is realisation, for me. Wouldn't be hard for some company with some technical resources.
Listen to it on my cell speakers, very similar but liked the second one, then I did it again with ear phones, still similar But now the second one seemed to resonate at some points, so now the first one sounded better
All I am saying is give springs a chance. Try spring iso feet for turntable AND speakers. Even suggest removing springs for optimal effect. Read the comments on A-zon.
I eliminated the cost issue by purchasing a 2.5 inch thick, solid maple cutting board. Thus, I cut the "Audiophile" markup dramatically! Maple is maple. The only difference is you are paying a premium because it is an audiophile product! I then added vibration pads. It is mounted to my wall with a shelf support I designed. All costing less than $100 US, and does the exact same thing for much less! You can also do the same with a slab of marble! The denser the material the better (maple is denser than walnut, and marble....you get the point)! Just an FYI to save you some money!
@@anadialog Perhaps, but wood is wood. Those characteristics do not change. Additionally, I used high end vibration pads AND affixed it to the wall, thus eliminating most vibrations. My solution was based on an audiophile product that cost $600+ and mine was identical, produced the same results and for less than third of the price.
@stephencastro1437 you must have a VERY well built house, because I can't even hang pictures on the wall without my system moving them or even making them fall off, can't see mounting a turntable to the wall, vibrations from the floor only get worse as you go up , now hanging from the cieing may be better, but not the wall
The first track sounds louder and more open but with an edge of grit, the second track sounds a bit more closed in but smoother. I prefered track 1. This is a recording I listen return to quite often...I think the acoustics of our rooms has a much bigger impact than anything else. My room is deader and helps the recording.
I built my own suspension table with 2 sheets of mdr glued together 5cm. I put 4 brass feet (point). Since then i can jump in my room and the table is not bothered. Slight improvement with the sound. 30 euro and 2h of work to make it pretty. That + a 25 euro acrylic mat and all the vibration is gone.
I have 2 real good fool-proof solutions. 1 I did. The other is a bit harder. 1: Wall mount with isolation hardware on butcherblock . 2: Ceiling mount with chains and marble stand. I did the wall mount and wish you could see the picture.
Best stereo furniture for the price/performance ratio is the Ikea Lack table, for the turntable you cut out the bottom ofthe tabletop by a large round circle and take ot the inbetween material. You can stack the tables on each other, though I recommend that you secure them so they dont slip off, happened to me. Best place to put a turntable furniture is the wall. Most often will the floor move and the the movement is not equal when placing the furniture against a wall so the turntable gets a rocking lateral movement. Thats death to good sound especially on a suspended turntable like Linn LP12 that can take vertical movement, but are sensitive to lateral movement I have made three sturdy wall shelf holders by square steel tubing 50x50 mm in the shape of a 90 deg angle, in the corner a short strengthening ”fillet” made by an added short piece of square tubing, drill holes for mounting on the vertical piece that is resting on the floor, drill two holes through the horizontal piece at a good location, so there will be room for cables in the back, use threaded rod like M10 and nuts, sharpen the upper end and adjust to a level position place upper shelf onto the spike rods, the lower shelfs need some holes and will be positioned hanging on the rod and nuts. I made mine so it will take a load of 300 kg, i have full timber walls. Shelfs can be adjusted or added easily when things change. On the upper shelf I have two turntables, 65 kg Platine Verdier and one quite heavy EMT938 but no worries with M10 french timber screws holding it to the wall
For price/performance its used hardwood entertainment units from the CRT days. If you have the resources to move a 500lb entertainment unit they go for next to nothing
It's counter-intuitive but turntables (especially suspended sub-chassis types) need to be placed on very lightweight but rigid shelves. On a heavy, high mass support vibrations aren't damped but merely converted to very low frequency movement which, as it is below the suspensions resonant frequency (typically sub five hertz) effectively bypasses it, feeding low frequency vibration into the player. The most effective support for any record player consists of rigid brackets into a support wall with a lightweight shelf placed loosely - not screwed to - the brackets. As an experiment that's free to try place your turntable on a lightweight coffee table and compare it musically to the results obtained against your high-mass monolithic isolator. If I'm wrong and it isn't a massive improvement well vive la difference, you've only lost a little bit of time, had a fun experiment and can troll me out in the comments section! Also three feet - no more, no less - is the ideal number ("you can't rock a tripod" as Roy Gandy of Rega used to say) and shelf support feet should be as rigid as popular; oak wood cones are a popular and effective choice. The art is to ensure that the support does not bypass or interfere with the turntables inbuilt isolation devices (either it's own feet or suspension) as any competently designed player will have it's own method of vibration rejection / resistance. It's the turntable's function to reject external vibration and the shelf's not to get in it's way. As a toe in the water there's an interesting article at theaudiophileman.com/decent-audio-turntable-wall-shelf/ regarding installation of a commercial shelf designed around the above guidelines. Thanks for an interesting video and stay safe
I have that shelf and I illustrated it in my room tour. It's good but not that good. In your analysis you did not take into consideration the technology implemented in the Isoacoustics feet. Changes completely the game. Oh look, another interesting article from the same guy ;-) theaudiophileman.com/delos-isolation-shelf-review-isoacoustics/
I'm not sure about that? you better putting it on a piece of one or two pieces of one 1" cellulose foam, taking the feet of the turntable so it's lying flat. our use those feet I suggested the ones using tungsten powder and squash balls. A block of bolster Wood would be better than that heavy piece of wood as well But the biggest improvement with a turntable like yours is the rip out the transformer and power circuit board and put it in a separate case like a PC power supply case, away from the unit connecting to with a BNC connectors to the turntable or you could use one bnc, 1 BNC would be for the power switch if you kept it on board the second being for the power cable to the main circuit board, use a shielded cable from the power supply case to the turntable with a x2 275v + 1uF ceramic capacitor across going to the power switch BNC connector, and a ferrite bead on the end of the cable going to the turntable as well. Ideally when putting the power supply in the PC power supply case find one with an ice socket and filter assembly already attached and use a short thick an ice mains power cable to the socket. you might want to consider bypassing the fuse or swapping it out for silver fuse would be better using silver wire in the fuse wire, and having the power switch on the power supply not on the turntable you could just leave it in position disconnected for Aesthetics reasons on the turntable. Then you would just need the One BNC connector use a 75 ohm BNC connectors not 50 Ohm's. That be a lot better than anything else you do to it or use. The transformer does have some mechanical and electrical shielding but not really sufficient you could try using some silicone grommets instead of the rubber grommets would help quite a bit as well if you don't want to take it out, and swap the fuse out for Silver same value and put a 1uF but this has to be a X2 275v + safety capacitor across the main terminals from the the main lead feeding to the power board. You could slab some Blu-Tack underneath the turntable roll it on and just leave the plastic film on the outside so it doesn't get dirty take the other one off, place underneath where the transformer is and underneath the centre, actually Blu-Tack makes fantastic feet better than anything else just roll them into 2" balls this can't take a great amount of weight on its own but it would hold a Technics turntable. to use for your speakers blu tack put them in the little disc candle trays near to the top place a felt or some type of disc on top use bolts instead of spikes. Blu-Tack has been found to be the best acoustic material out there better than rubbers or plastics not sure if it's better than tungsten powder I don't think so. That's enough for me tonight
![ANA[DIA]LOG](http://yt3.ggpht.com/K0qr1ndqDdGUyxbMUYesdA0KM3wZ-_upZ4bvQR8Vi_Ie1773eXoIXY2VblfzWYRJnwxd5pVrbXw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
Why not a 20mm thick granite slab ?
Quickly becoming my favorite UA-cam channel.
@7:51 track 1 @8:35 track 2
I never use headphones to listen to music. I only use a cheap earphones when I'm on UA-cam in my old laptop and this is how I have listen the tracks in this video.
The first track has more mid-bass/bass and the sound is full but is muffled. The second track is thinner but airy and clear.
Well put! PS , headphones can be really good! ALL recordings are an illusion of reality (fake), it's never going to sound perfectly natural! Second part is my opinion only, the first part is true!
@@analoguecity3454 Nothing is true and everything's permitted :
Assassin'e Creed 1
I liked the second track better actually. It sounded deeper and more airy to me.
Me too!
me too
The same as my initial feelings as well, I never read any comments until I've listened to the video.
As soon as I heard the 2nd track it was immediately apparent to me of the differences. Of course I didn't know which included the isolation enhancement, but my obvious preference was the first track. Track 1 had greater tone, clarity, transparency and resolution. I was actually surprised that the differences could be so easily detected.
*Important comment!*
*De-coupling of counterweight*
- I just made a major discovery, a major tweak for any turntable at a LOW cost!
having followed Alex Korf's research showing how vibrations are passed on from cartridge to tonearm and ultimately exciting the counterweight.
Measuring the counterweight individually with accelerometer and vibrameter shows how the counterweight behaves like an antenna, receiving vibrations.
- The counterweight in turn then radiates vibrations and it's own resonances back into the tonearm and cartridge.
The tweak is simple, easy and cheap.
- You take the counterweight off and coat the 'insides' of it's hole with 100.000 cst Silicone oil and then also coat the tonearm stub where the counterweight attatches.
You then put the counterweight back on and drive it back and forth a few times, and rub off any excess silicone oil.
Now you have decoupled the counterweight from the Tonearm, this causes major improvement in the 10-20khz region - upper-extension, soundstaging and whatnot, the change is straight up jaw dropping!!!
It's like experiencing Gaia for the first time again!
This mod is completely reversibel, as the coating can easily be cleaned off with alcohol solvents.
Also 100.000 cst is the perfect viscosity, as it will stay in place as a coat, and will not start dripping down.
Also - there is no need to be worried that you will somehow "over-dampen" your tonearm as there is absolutely no argument for why vibrations should be passed on to the counterweight.
In an ideal world there wouldn't be a counterweight, instead a tonearm long enough that it would be able to balance while the cart is installed - while also exhibiting the perfect VTF for the cartridge.
My mod removes the counterweight, without actually having to physically remove it.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing that!
BTW, track 1 is fuller and warmer in sound, I guess that's when you used vibration reduction. Track 2 sounds thinner and colder in sound, more digital (I know, there's still digital conversion involved with track 1, but it seems like the 1st track was affected less by YT conversion).
I’ve bought two granite work top savers and some isolating spikes,with pieces of rubber in between the two granite work top savers.👍
Bravo!
Did the same with Sorbophane sticky feet, works great.
Why granite in particular?
How about wood with feet then granite with feet then player?
@@ShivaNatarajaASMR we have a lot of work furniture and I like the black granite and its grain as a contrast. Plus the work top savers are the perfect size for what I want.
@@stephenmkeer Yeah, granite is stunning. I love it! I’m looking into why an ancient structure was built in a certain way...it has a carved wooden wall, then an airspace, then granite. I read that perforated (or carved) wood with an airspace behind it will dampen sound in medium to high range and absorb bass. I learned that granite and wood are anisotropic-wood more so than granite. So I wonder...would carved/perforated wood, an airspace and granite make a difference?? The point to the ancient structure was perhaps to keep the sound waves in the structure, not sure yet. Maybe in this case though, it should be granite, airspace, then perforated wood facing the turntable and then another airspace, then the turntable? Or perhaps the wood on the bottom with carvings facing away from turntable... Not sure, but I think it’s worth a go if anyone has a piece of wood with some carvings on one side and a piece of granite!😊Maybe it doesn’t apply though because in the case of the turntable, you are trying to keep vibrations from traveling to the turntable, not trying to keep the sound waves produced by the turntable isolated...I dunno. Any thoughts, anyone?🙏
The first note on the second track was all I needed to hear to know and I’m using an I phone. Very good demonstration 👍👍
Thx
I used a heavy walnut cutting board, sized 12x17” from AtHome for $29 and a set of Sorbothane feet ($29) under my table and it made a huge difference. I have old fashioned wood floors over crawl space, so vibration mitigation is always a struggle in my room.
I listened to each track three times because it was hard to define the differences even though I did hear them. My final analysis is that the first track was more balanced, very natural, better tonality and less congested then the second track.
Well, that was clear even through UA-cam on my phone. I will definitly get the Delos. I already bought a very stable rack. I will probably also get tje Gaia feet for my speakers. Thank you so much, Guido!
Playing through my tv speakers the difference is huge for me, I picked it as soon as track 2 played, track one was so much more full and vibrant
Vibration control is ESSENTIAL for vinyl playback obviously BUT it also has huge benefits for CD players as well.
Waow! I have been using both Isoacoustics aperta, Gaia and the Zazen for years! I remember demonstrating them to my dad (rip) for the first time, when I had the Gaia 3 installed under my loudspeakers, - his jaw dropped to the floor when he heard it.
He said it was a day and night difference, you can never go back afterwards. It's the truth, HiFi without Gaia isn't HiFi.
What a nice surprise that you actually know about the Isoacoustics de-coupling aswell, my faith in your judgement was greatly improved now!
My general experience is, that if you just maintain the weight of the Loudspeaker or turntable within the rated specs of the Isoacouatics you'll get the full benefit.
The Zazen 1 is rated for 11 kg, a regular Technics turntable is 9 kg, the Delos with 6 feet is absolute overkill, unless your turntable is made of solid unobtainiun.
I'm willing to say that the Delos (compared to Zazen) will be more "dead" with it's increased mass, that will reduce excitations passed on from surface to turntable. But the whole point of the feet is that the block is nearly completely de-coupled and won't be excited by vibrations..!
Instead of buying the Delos, all that money should have been thrown into the cartridge instead, and just go for the Zazen, to get the highest ROI.
This is my opinion atleast
I'm that kinda guy that removes every single Capacitor in my Tube-amp and solder in Mundorf Supreme M-cap Silver-gold-oil instead.
Nice! I actually did a dedicated video to the Gaias they are so good: ua-cam.com/video/eKCWRCE9Vns/v-deo.html
i liked the first track, more detail and very deep.to me there was big big different with track 2 and also speaker was important to demonstrate this issue .
Second track has less distortion.
The bigger distortion for the turntables is the sound wave from the speakers which created vibration direct to the vinyl plate. (If you are not living over the train station ) This big piece of wood plate with the polished surface just will reflect the sound wave from the speakers and will send it under the turntable to create interference and diffraction and more vibrations on the turntable. Also the homogeneous materials not killing successful vibration. No 1 vibration killer is cast iron , No 2 -is marble , No 3 is chipboard. So If you use chipboard plate , glued from both sides with a rubber foam for gimm exercises will be much more effective.
Interesting. Thanks John!
That is mumbo jumbo, the sound wave emitted from the loudspeaker will excite the turntable regardless.
And it will reflect from a flat piece of marble, cast iron and walnut tree in roughly the same manner.
The Isoacouatics de-coupling is measurebly far superior to whatever you're using. It's nearly the same as having the danm turntable suspended from bungie-ropes, as proven by measurements.
Yes. The first track I guessed it right has more openness and wider soundstage
The difference is in the equalisation of sound. Track 1 was more open and spacious sounding. Track two had better dynamics and weight to the sound. In hi-fi terms track one sounds more impressive. In terms of musicality track 2 is better (listen to the cello's depth of tone). Both tracks had their pros and cons. Isolation tweaks can be a double edged sword where they improve sound in one aspect, and degrade in another. One of the most neutral and effective isolation products is a slab of decoupled MDF. I know I know its not an exotic or expensive solution but tends to be tonally neutral due to its flat Q in the midrange without any peaks. Solid wood (depending on type) has tend to have Q peaks. Another way of looking at it is that isolation devices perform like mechanical graphic equalisers which is dependent on the q of the isolating material. This results in the emphasis of certain frequencies at the expense of others.
MDF is a great solution, I agree!
Hi, I picked the correct track even listening using an iPhone !
I have had a problem with vibration, I think it’s a bad floor board area under my rack. The room is carpeted throughout. Even when i just tapped my foot the tone arm on my LP12 jumped.My final solution was to place washing machine vibration dampers ( 4 ) under a piece of 24mm thick MDF board ( 600 x 400mm ) on top of which I placed 8 sorbathane hemispheres on top of which was my very heavy highly recommended 5 shelf rack. The linn LP12 was placed on the top shelf, with the feet replaced with 4 more a sorbathane hemispheres. I can now jump next to the rack with problems.
You have to use the correct size and hardness sorbathane hemispheres for the weight of your equipment.
Everything is now ok and sounds great.
Regards
Richard Herbert
Cool, thanks!
Why did you say the Maple was better than the Walnut version? I have a VPI Prime Signature and I am looking to purchase one.
Well, maple is just more hard and dampens better vibrations...but it's quite ugly. It's no surprise that Isoacoustics released only the maple on the beginning and only after some time they mare the more appealing version in walnut.
@@anadialog ahh ok thanks for the info
My friend the best tweak I made to my 1200g . Thank you
Thanks for sharing that!
Love your intro & room ambience! This ol' dog couldn't hear any difference using bose noise cancelling ear buds (noise cancel in on position). Another great vlog hearing about, as always, informative info!
Thanks Fred!
I wasn't expecting a lot, but even with speakers the first track seemed to be vaguely better, so I switched to headphones: the difference seems to be at the same time small and big, small when you consider the whole music, big when you consider each note. It is quite clear to me in my synaesthesia image: each note here is like a bamboo cane, but in the first case they are tightly packed, while in the second they are just a loose stack laid to the corner of a room.
Interesting analysis
I definitely notice the difference between track 1 and 2, track 1 was much Fuller! As a kicker, I am listening to this Thru my speakers on my Galaxy S20SE! So if I can hear the difference how much more with a good speaker 🔊 system.
Thank you for the demonstration.
Thank YOU for your feedback!
I’ve got a 1 inch particleboard table top then 1 1/4“ x 3“ diameter rubber stoppers underneath a slab of granite. Then I have magnetic floating feet on top of the granite supporting a 9mm acrylic sheet with the turntable on top of rubber stoppers on top of that acrylic.
Wow!
I have a project Xtension 9 and I feel the isolation is really good. Maybe I can get even more??? Thoughts on isolation for power amplifier's??
Nice TT! You can always do better, especially with tts. Amps? Absolutely! Even something simple but it is recommended. Capacitors can create microphonic noise in the signal...here in this video I discussed about the issues in general terms and also added a scientific paper on the topic in the video description: ua-cam.com/video/UYMbi7v2pNU/v-deo.html
Definably track #1 sound more open and alive, compare to track #2.Great video Thanks.
Thanks Daniel!
Interestingly I thought track 1 was less open, but with a slightly fuller sound. Track 2 appealed more at the start, sounding a little more detailed, but ultimately seemed slightly more distant. After a few listens I think I prefer track 1 over all, but there’s not a lot in it. Not on my £25 Sony headphones anyway.
Whoa.
I was thinking that buying that big chunk of wood was a bit too excessive but the difference is freakin noticeable!
Lets say that track 2 sounds as if Starker was playing the cello in the bathroom or en empty warehouse , a lot of echo and reverb, the sound so thin and distant.
Whereas on Track 1 it sounds as if he was in the room. Although, I must say, vinyl's surface noise was also more noticeable.
Holy Moly.
Thanks for all your nice videos. Amazing. I watch your videos a lot.
What I want to ask is if you do have any experience with walker audio products. They are very expensive. Do they really improve or is it snake oil? I cannot test them. Would be glad to hear about it.
Thank you.
Thanks! I only have the talisman...I would leave it aside. No real, strong improvement.
Bass was clean and louder too
Track 2 was compressed.
I have tried using PU rods under my turntable by using heavy block of wood approx 10kg and it works better 10yrs back.
I was surprised to hear an ever so slight difference. Take 1 sounds slightly grittier and extended. Are you positive these are both normalized and completely identical besides the Delos pad?
The deeper note sounds a bit louder here: 8:16 9:01
It would have been interesting to see the waveforms of both, you can probably see the difference if you can hear it as well.
The waves are indeed different. I did normalized and I also measured the LUFS with the Youlean Loudness Meter 2. They are Identical.
@@anadialog Cool. How load would you say you were listening? Above or at normal listening levels?
High level...
@@anadialog I see. I assume the louder one listens the more impact it has.
Absolutely but as I have learned in recent years, true loudness and perceived loudness and two different things. The Youlean software certifies that they are identical.
thank you for going over this need for dense vibration and good feet. I have recently finished building a media wall for my albums, speakers and electronic components. I built in my floor 15" MTX loudspeakers. Impressive listening to everything...but Albums. I realized today that the basic 1"pine shelving that I used to make my built in electronics stand transfers a TON of vibration through the wood to the record player. ugh. the shelf to the touch can be felt vibrating. such an oversight. Your information has given me a new direction to take.
Cool! Thanks for sharing that!
I heard a tiny difference but I don't know if it's worth the cost. But I like your passion!
I liked the sound of both, but I liked track 2 just a little bit more! But I do agree , vibrations make a difference!
Vibrapods and Orea can be used under original feet or do they work as replacement feet?
Both! Although they cannot be fixed with screws or things like that
@@anadialog the kg they can handle is based on a single piece, so if a paritcular pod can handle up to 3,6kg and my turntable weights 10kg I'm gonna need 4 of them, right?
Correct! Remember there are different vibrapods with different resistance. Get the type that matches exactly your weight, they work better!
@@anadialog are they beneficial to amps too or just motored stuff like CD players and turntables?
They use them under a lot of stuff. Remember though that vibrapods dampen, in gear like speakers or amps I think the best is to decouple, like isoacouatics et similia, IMO.
I’ve been thinking about building a platform like that but I was going to use the Gaia feet so I could adjust the height and level of the platform
Headphones or speakers, after all the sound goes through to make it to this page, who knows what you are hearing? However, take a vibration meter to the surface of a record and you will see a great deal of difference. While the turntable suspension is the most critical, adding isolation devices such as this does help. Even if the sound doesn't change, it is such a pleasure to have someone stomp their foot or unintentionally tap the shelf the turntable is on and the record does not skip at all. THAT is why I isolate my turntable (which already has a suspension such that I can press my finger on the base and bounce it and the needle doesn't move at all).
Uh, that's way too much to spend on a chunk of wood with the nice feet. I honestly could not tell the difference as it may just be the way you recorded them. I've been suspending my turntables for years (since the 80s) and for me and it works great. I have my turntables on a piece of wood with an inner tube between it and the hanging platform. I use a small piece of a plastic tube under the inner tube to relieve and possible pressure on the inside circle of the tube. I use Sorbothane Vibration Isolation Circular Pad 50 Duro .25 in thick under each footpad for extra vibration control. And yes, the platform is completely level.
Much more Bloom! Track One
The hi-fi shop I normally go to did a test by attaching 4 GAIA III feet to a fairly inexpensive maple cutting board. Did their test with a Planar 3 turntable. Yes, the difference was clear. Man I love those GAIA III feet. I use them on my Monitor Audio floor standers and it took about 3 seconds to hear the difference and my speakers are not high end. As far as my turntable, I have a sprung turntable and I made a 2 part wall mounted shelf. It's 2 parts so I can adjust the level of the upper shelf. Under the adjusting feet use sorbothane pads and then under the turntables feet I made 4 feet using the same sorbothane pads sandwiched between pieces of aluminum round bar. They look nice and for me they really seem to work.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing that!
Just no. No point using such things on speakers. Do you really think your cabinets move? If so, they are seriously bad designed.
Best turntable isolation I ever used is a Minus K platform. Effective & no maintenance.
Yes, I was able to hear a difference.
It also really helps that we start with the well dampened Technics SL-1200 family turntable. I have one too and I love it. Compared to the 3 point spring suspended sub-chasis in a box style turntables like Linn, the special foot isolation eliminates certain outside vibrations, like floor footsteps, really well, much better. But other vibrations, like loud bass in the room are better isolated in a suspended sub-chasis. It's the classic dilemma in HiFi. Everything is a compromise.
Yes I agree the iso feet under my kef reference 5 made a great difference so I put some under a nice bit of wood then put on my technics sl 1200 g also worth the money . ISO feet can be expensive but if your gear is 30k than it’s not so expensive for what you get back in sound
You don't need iso on speakers. Speakers shouldn't move. It is only the coils that move. There is no point isolating them. They only need a sturdy stand.
The difference you heard is your thoughts and it is placebo.
Thanks for video. I got bass loop on my Gates TT and looking for solution I found your video.
From your 2 samples I don’t like neither. The first one has a lot of echoes probably because of wooden platform which has some resonance, second track missing details of this nice record. Hope your EMT sounds better.
Question, I’m getting a rumbling bass sound which gets louder as I turn up the volume would the wood plank or isolation feet cure this?
Maybe, but can say for sure. Try moving the turntable on anything else and see if the sound changes. If it does it means you can control it. Otherwise it is probably an internal problem.
Some episodes ago, you sell your old phono amp. Do you got another one in the meantime? Do you know BLUE AMP? I would like to get some information about it. BR
I did...soon I will review it. No, I haven't. I checked them out, seem very cool!
Sorbothane is an incredible isolator. Audioquest sells it in small sheets. I have my turntable on a Mission isolation platform that must be 30 years old. It has 4 round feet made of plastic & Sorbothane.
It's worked very well. Don't think it cost me more than $40 back then but if you are wealthy audiophile or an idiot like me I would probably give this wood isolation board a good look and possibly buy it. Even though I am very sure that my board is at least 90% as good as this big one. Some thing about the Sobothane.
I listened with the samsung phones akg tuned earphones. They're pretty flat and detailed and there's a huge difference! From the begining, the first track sounded very precise. So much depth, so much more tonality to the cello. If the recordings were made exactly the same, this is a huge difference!
Track i2 is bit hollow or empty to me. The block does improve the sound quality.
I liked track 2 better the first listen through. But the second listen through I listened to track 2 first and then I listened to track 1 and liked it better. In Track 1 if feels as if the instrument is right in the room, and Track 2 sounds like a really relaly nice recording of the same instrument.
It depends on the rest of your tract. And personal preferences.
With Clearaudio turntable and MC cart thru solid state linear phono to Harbeth 30.2 monitors I choose more relaxed version without dellos. Cause I'm already have a sufficient level of transparency.
But i must admit that track1 has more air.
I guessed right. This was still audible even through my iPhone speakers. Track definitely better
There is a big difference to my ears, more detail with. My solution is - I had a slab of granite cut, this is mounted on sorbothane feet. The turntable sits on the granite on spikes
Cool!
Nice!
Can i make a wood box with two 45 lbs cast iron weight plates in it and attach 4 rubber anti vibration legs for washer/dryer? It looks the same .
A commenter suggested cast iron. I tried it. Forget about it. No results.
One of the best free d.i.y. solutions and cure i heard regarding turntable isolations and vibrations was from a very old guy i knew. He had his turntable installed in a room opposite to his listening and equipment area. He had designed his own special damped arm lift/ cueing device . Timed to perfection so by the time he got to his listening seat the tone arm just met the run in groove of the record . He used special low loss, long run tonearm phono signal cable of his own making connected to the pre amp in the other room . I wish now i had asked him more details of what he did and actually used . Sadly too late now as he has now passed away .
Ingenious! Thanks for sharing that.
He could have just have the preamp the same room as the turntable, then run balanced cables from the preamp. Much less expensive than unbalanced phono cables. Ridiculous how much people make out of these things. It is totally snake oil.
If you're looking for a decent but cheaper alternative for the Isoaccoustics Delos, you should try a thick wooden chopping board like the Ikea Aptitlig and put some Vibrapods under it.
By adding Vibrapod Cones, you can improve your improvised isolation platform even further.
I tried the cones. Didn't do much for me. Vibrapods are always great and in fact they are present in the video description.
@@anadialog Ah interesting, I have some of those Vibrapods, but never tried those cones.
The experiences with those cones appears differ between people quite much.
Hey, I did hear that track 1 is slightly better than track2. That’s my opinion and that’s what I heard,
I am using my iPad Pro via usb to AQ Dragonfly RED feeding Schiit Preamp
I have butcher block acoustics and it made a big difference for my set up. Thanks for all your great videos!
Thank you Adam!
TRK 1 was a fuller sound. TRK 2 the highs were a bit loose. That’s just me
I got train tracks five meters away so I think I might be screwed on vibration issue
😱
I did have a preference for Track 1. It seemed (for lack of a better word) fuller. I hear that tennis balls, sawed precisely in half, are a great (and cheap) dampening solution. (3 half tennis balls, not 4.) (And I listened to the compressed UA-cam sound of your video on an old MacBook Pro connected to Creative X-Fi USB external sound card (set to flat, i.e. Crystalizer and CMSS-3D both switched off) connected to Cambridge SoundWorks PCWorks 2.1 powered speakers. So not exactly a "high end" setup, but, apparently, revealing/resolving enough...)
1st track sounded better, fuller.
would the delos help with playing via bt or just through speakers?
I am not I understand the question, can you explain that?
@@anadialog i listen to my vinyl via bluetooth and i want to know if vibrations will affect the sound via bt?
The first track did sound better to me. Cant explain the difference,the second one sounded good,just maybe slightly cut off or muted a little. Either way thanks for the videos, it does help some of us to make a more educated decision on cost versus benefits
For my Turntable a combination of a heavier plinth( 7.5 Kg instead of 1kg), New carbon steel sub-chassis suspension springs, and the most dramatic improvement came from installing Isonoe Isolation feet( not cheap). MY TT rack sits on Parquet, which until adding the Isonoe feet, meant I could not walk near the TT as the Tonearm would bounce over the record ( typical experience with a Suspended sub chassis TT on Parquet). Now I can jump next to the TT and there is no reaction. Originally the feet were produced for DJs TTs so they are designed for extreme vibration environments.
Good job!
Well, I preferred track #2, listening through the earphone connected to the i-phone ... so that’s nor trustful. I do use Gaia isoacoustics isolators under my speakers, and they really improve the sound as compared to nothing. But compared to the original speaker spikes, there’s not much difference ... I also use a wood rack, specifically made for audio equipments, under my gear, and isolator feet under the TT, but haven’t tried this isoacoustics maple. I think I’ll try that! Great video, as usual!!
Thanks Sergio! If you do, give us some feedback! Negative or positive, no problem here.
You could hear some difference in track one.... but you need to remove the rubber bottom feet from the sl1200 for a solid foot to couple the TT to the iso platform for it to work as designed
I had some wood lying around (not walnut). I, as a fun project, tried to make my own cheap Isoacoustic Delos replica. It's not as heavy, used superspikes instead of dempers but I was very surprised at the impact. It made a noticable improvement already. A little more detail and wider sound. So I believe the real Delos could make a even better improvement. But with less than 100 euro investment I am very pleased with the improvent it made.
Nice! Good job! The Delos is just an example (just too expensive) so I am glad you tried this and experimented. I would try a damping solution further ahead. Thanks for the feedback!
@@anadialog Thanks, yes I will try a damping solution later. I choose the superspikes for now because my turntable feet are not adjustable. So I have to do some more DIY first to make the feet adjustable, than replace the superspikes.
Definitely different between tracks. If i may suggest something.
The problem with the way your doing the test with a microphone or cell phone it blurs the test results because your listening to a good part of the sound bouncing around in the room with a lower quality microphone. Booming bass in obe test could simply sound deeper in a recording of the room with the speakers in the room. The correct way to do this kind of test in disconnect the turn table from your preamp and plug the turntable and phono stage into an analog to usb digital decoder (about $40) and using a usb cable pluged into a laptop record the results to the laptop, this way you hear the turntable directly without interference of the room or a low quality microphone blurring the results. The software to do this is free and plentiful. Many people to this to archive there records.
This is a classical music recording. The record itself is like that, with reverberation. Unfortunately we are used to pop music which is always upfront. I obviously converted and recorded the signal coming from my phono preamp.
@@anadialog I appreciate your thought, but I only listen to classical music & am a classical musician.
I have the feeling you didn't understand what I wrote. I recorded the music directly from the phono preamplifier. It is not an environmental recording. You thought it was environmental because of the reverb.
@@anadialog Thank you. Keep up the good work my friend. I enjoy your videos. 😊
Worth it for a Rega, lower level listen only 🤔 (the Zazen 1 In this case)
Everything well installed, sound is good, but when "Itouch the turntable cabinet ", it works like a mike through the loudspeakers (resonance); (turntable is Project-Audio Classic Evo with Audio Technica VM95Shibata, Yamaha RX-A3050 and Focal Aria 948 loudspeakers on a Lovan Rack)...
Unfortunately it is a common thing. Very few TTs don't suffer from that. The platter needs to be isolated or strongly dampened.
Oh yeah! Just through my secondary system/computer/stereo I could *CLEARLY* tell the difference, no comparison! The first track was so open, full, and lovely, absolutely. However, $500 is just way too much for me. Interestingly, I just added a long piece of slate underneath my turntable because I wanted more room to put my two phono amps, the IFI Phono 2 and the all tube LittleBear T11. What was unexpected was that on my system, suddenly all my albums sounded brighter and it kind of alarmed me. I realized that the resonance of the slate was apparently greatly affecting the sound, kind of a 'Ringing' effect. I had that once on a Rega TT I had about 40 years ago with a glass platter (bad idea!)
So, yes, I also was now looking into some kind of dampening. Many have suggested the dense wooden blocks you can get from Ikea. BUT... I remembered that I had ordered these little 2x2 inch squares which were specifically made to control TT vibrations. I put a set under the feet of the TT, between the TT and the slate. I (THANKFULLY!) immediately noticed a much better, non-bright sound. I have another 3 left so I put 2 under each of the 3 feet of the British Revolver TT I have. Ah... now, everything sounds much better. I'm not sure if I should also pursue even more dampening, but for now, that fairly inexpensive ($25 for 12 pieces - I also put 4 under the slate between the top of my rack and the slate) adjustment REALLY made a big difference. I wonder if i can indeed dial it in even better, but WITHOUT spending $500! 😁
Nice! Of course, mine is just a suggestion. You can get even better results with a fraction of the expense
@@anadialog Hey, your suggestion was great! (for the rich and powerful! 😃)
Picked #1 listening to video on inexpensive chromebook .
I've had the poor man solution: an IKEA's bamboo wood plain with isolation feet under my Rega P3. Even if not efficient as the Delos I've had a nice improvement on sound. Nice one Guido.
I also have an IKEA bamboo cutting board sitting on Sorbothane for my RT85. Works great.
Bravo!!
got that with rega wall rack as well
I simply cut 4 pieces of memory foam, placed it under the feet of my record record player ....problem solved .
Noticed better sound quality over all to be honest.
Can you send links to your recommendations please
Did you check the video description?
What about Mobile Fidelity's Ultra Low Noise Feet at $249? They are supposed to work as rocket science they say. You should try them.
Thank you as always. I hear a clear difference in track 1 & 2 ... I find track 1 more detailed. So clearly 1 to me. Peace and love and of course High end. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht. Music is born Analog ...
✌😘👌👍😉
for me the second track sounded better but only marginally. I was listening on my PC/speakers/headphones setup, maybe on my hifi system it would be different. For the price I would be looking at getting a separate phono stage instead. As mentioned elsewhere, a wooden bamboo chopping board like the Ikea Aptitlig with some gel feet is a cheap alternative. If it doesnt work out you can always use it in the kitchen
Track two for me. Sounded tighter or hot with more resonances
yes even with a very low quality headphone connected on my computer I could identify a slightly better sound on track 1 : more aerial , better definition .not easy but if your ears are trained you can hear it . daniel
I've found wood to have a lot of resonance. Granted, it's a highly pleasant resonance. It's one of the reasons they make drums out of wood.
I have (maybe) the best solution, as idea, concept. Everyone's jar would fall to the ground, if I anounce it here. But, it isn't protected, is it worth of making prototype? Is there a market for this technology, anyway?
Tell us! ;-)
@@anadialog Well, as every genius solution it is relatively simply as concept. Harder is realisation, for me. Wouldn't be hard for some company with some technical resources.
Anyone tested bamboo platform's as aren't they meant to have good properties for absorbing way would frequencies "if that's the right words"
Listen to it on my cell speakers, very similar but liked the second one, then I did it again with ear phones, still similar But now the second one seemed to resonate at some points, so now the first one sounded better
All I am saying is give springs a chance.
Try spring iso feet for turntable AND speakers.
Even suggest removing springs for optimal
effect.
Read the comments on A-zon.
I eliminated the cost issue by purchasing a 2.5 inch thick, solid maple cutting board. Thus, I cut the "Audiophile" markup dramatically! Maple is maple. The only difference is you are paying a premium because it is an audiophile product! I then added vibration pads. It is mounted to my wall with a shelf support I designed. All costing less than $100 US, and does the exact same thing for much less! You can also do the same with a slab of marble! The denser the material the better (maple is denser than walnut, and marble....you get the point)! Just an FYI to save you some money!
Absolutely! Just remember though that the isoacoustics are just unbeatable.
@@anadialog Perhaps, but wood is wood. Those characteristics do not change. Additionally, I used high end vibration pads AND affixed it to the wall, thus eliminating most vibrations. My solution was based on an audiophile product that cost $600+ and mine was identical, produced the same results and for less than third of the price.
Otherwise, I did enjoy this and all the videos you produce! Thank you!
@stephencastro1437 you must have a VERY well built house, because I can't even hang pictures on the wall without my system moving them or even making them fall off, can't see mounting a turntable to the wall, vibrations from the floor only get worse as you go up , now hanging from the cieing may be better, but not the wall
The first track sounds louder and more open but with an edge of grit, the second track sounds a bit more closed in but smoother. I prefered track 1. This is a recording I listen return to quite often...I think the acoustics of our rooms has a much bigger impact than anything else. My room is deader and helps the recording.
I thought one had a more woddy tone which I perfered
It can be said very short: Philips GA 212.
If you have a solid built wall fit a turntable wall shelf cheaper and especially if you have a suspended wooden floor more effective in my opinion.
I agree, a high quality isolated shelf is a great choice.
The isolation platforms called zaZen are also another possible solution; and those isolation platforms are a bit less expensive!🔉🎵🎶
Indeed, still isoacoustics!
@@anadialog Okay, then; thanks for noticing. I forgot to say.
I built my own suspension table with 2 sheets of mdr glued together 5cm. I put 4 brass feet (point).
Since then i can jump in my room and the table is not bothered. Slight improvement with the sound.
30 euro and 2h of work to make it pretty.
That + a 25 euro acrylic mat and all the vibration is gone.
In the case it make no difference, you can use it as the most beautiful and comfortable cutting board....salut
Richard
True! :-))
I have 2 real good fool-proof solutions. 1 I did. The other is a bit harder. 1: Wall mount with isolation hardware on butcherblock . 2: Ceiling mount with chains and marble stand. I did the wall mount and wish you could see the picture.
I just used 4 pieces of memory foam and placed them under the feet of my record player ....problem solved 100%
Best stereo furniture for the price/performance ratio is the Ikea Lack table, for the turntable you cut out the bottom ofthe tabletop by a large round circle and take ot the inbetween material. You can stack the tables on each other, though I recommend that you secure them so they dont slip off, happened to me.
Best place to put a turntable furniture is the wall. Most often will the floor move and the the movement is not equal when placing the furniture against a wall so the turntable gets a rocking lateral movement. Thats death to good sound especially on a suspended turntable like Linn LP12 that can take vertical movement, but are sensitive to lateral movement
I have made three sturdy wall shelf holders by square steel tubing 50x50 mm in the shape of a 90 deg angle, in the corner a short strengthening ”fillet” made by an added short piece of square tubing, drill holes for mounting on the vertical piece that is resting on the floor, drill two holes through the horizontal piece at a good location, so there will be room for cables in the back, use threaded rod like M10 and nuts, sharpen the upper end and adjust to a level position place upper shelf onto the spike rods, the lower shelfs need some holes and will be positioned hanging on the rod and nuts. I made mine so it will take a load of 300 kg, i have full timber walls. Shelfs can be adjusted or added easily when things change. On the upper shelf I have two turntables, 65 kg Platine Verdier and one quite heavy EMT938 but no worries with M10 french timber screws holding it to the wall
For price/performance its used hardwood entertainment units from the CRT days. If you have the resources to move a 500lb entertainment unit they go for next to nothing
It's counter-intuitive but turntables (especially suspended sub-chassis types) need to be placed on very lightweight but rigid shelves. On a heavy, high mass support vibrations aren't damped but merely converted to very low frequency movement which, as it is below the suspensions resonant frequency (typically sub five hertz) effectively bypasses it, feeding low frequency vibration into the player. The most effective support for any record player consists of rigid brackets into a support wall with a lightweight shelf placed loosely - not screwed to - the brackets. As an experiment that's free to try place your turntable on a lightweight coffee table and compare it musically to the results obtained against your high-mass monolithic isolator. If I'm wrong and it isn't a massive improvement well vive la difference, you've only lost a little bit of time, had a fun experiment and can troll me out in the comments section! Also three feet - no more, no less - is the ideal number ("you can't rock a tripod" as Roy Gandy of Rega used to say) and shelf support feet should be as rigid as popular; oak wood cones are a popular and effective choice. The art is to ensure that the support does not bypass or interfere with the turntables inbuilt isolation devices (either it's own feet or suspension) as any competently designed player will have it's own method of vibration rejection / resistance. It's the turntable's function to reject external vibration and the shelf's not to get in it's way. As a toe in the water there's an interesting article at theaudiophileman.com/decent-audio-turntable-wall-shelf/ regarding installation of a commercial shelf designed around the above guidelines. Thanks for an interesting video and stay safe
I have that shelf and I illustrated it in my room tour. It's good but not that good.
In your analysis you did not take into consideration the technology implemented in the Isoacoustics feet. Changes completely the game. Oh look, another interesting article from the same guy ;-)
theaudiophileman.com/delos-isolation-shelf-review-isoacoustics/
I'm not sure about that? you better putting it on a piece of one or two pieces of one 1" cellulose foam, taking the feet of the turntable so it's lying flat. our use those feet I suggested the ones using tungsten powder and squash balls. A block of bolster Wood would be better than that heavy piece of wood as well
But the biggest improvement with a turntable like yours is the rip out the transformer and power circuit board and put it in a separate case like a PC power supply case, away from the unit connecting to with a BNC connectors to the turntable or you could use one bnc, 1 BNC would be for the power switch if you kept it on board the second being for the power cable to the main circuit board, use a shielded cable from the power supply case to the turntable with a x2 275v + 1uF ceramic capacitor across going to the power switch BNC connector, and a ferrite bead on the end of the cable going to the turntable as well. Ideally when putting the power supply in the PC power supply case find one with an ice socket and filter assembly already attached and use a short thick an ice mains power cable to the socket. you might want to consider bypassing the fuse or swapping it out for silver fuse would be better using silver wire in the fuse wire, and having the power switch on the power supply not on the turntable you could just leave it in position disconnected for Aesthetics reasons on the turntable. Then you would just need the One BNC connector use a 75 ohm BNC connectors not 50 Ohm's.
That be a lot better than anything else you do to it or use. The transformer does have some mechanical and electrical shielding but not really sufficient you could try using some silicone grommets instead of the rubber grommets would help quite a bit as well if you don't want to take it out, and swap the fuse out for Silver same value and put a 1uF but this has to be a X2 275v + safety capacitor across the main terminals from the the main lead feeding to the power board. You could slab some Blu-Tack underneath the turntable roll it on and just leave the plastic film on the outside so it doesn't get dirty take the other one off, place underneath where the transformer is and underneath the centre, actually Blu-Tack makes fantastic feet better than anything else just roll them into 2" balls this can't take a great amount of weight on its own but it would hold a Technics turntable. to use for your speakers blu tack put them in the little disc candle trays near to the top place a felt or some type of disc on top use bolts instead of spikes. Blu-Tack has been found to be the best acoustic material out there better than rubbers or plastics not sure if it's better than tungsten powder I don't think so. That's enough for me tonight
Great and detailed comment. Yes, I fully agree on power separation, always. Infact, I did underline this in my video on top Technics upgrades.