Who Wrote the Pink Letter? - ASOIAF Theories
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- Опубліковано 11 сер 2023
- We solved it
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The true answer: Janos Slynt’s powerful friends at court
Evidence: it appeared to me in a dream, I suspect Bloodraven
As someone who used to use Glidus streams to fall asleep, let me say, your channel being all hour long videos is a GODSEND for me not having to use the same videos multiple times
YESSSS. OUR PURPOSE BEING FULFILLED.
I never considered this. I don’t personally find their voices quite soothing enough for the sleep video. They’re really close but just energetic/upbeat enough that I can’t fall as,eel sleep
Most Likely: Ramsay bragging after Stannis's men return by impersonating the Freys and Manderlys.
Least Likely: Tyrek Lannister (horses do not have opposable thumbs)
Most Convoluted: Wyman Manderly instigating a coup at the Wall on the orders of Illyrio to make way for Rickon.
Most Doylistic: GRRM wrote it; his name is on the cover of the book the Pink Letter was written in.
Maybe the one who wrote the pink letter was the friends we made along the way
some friends!
Jon replies "The fuck's a Reek?"
hahahahaha
“Did he mean leek? It rhymes with that.”
STILL funny!
I think the Pink Letter had a writer's room of like 20 characters sending drafts of it back and forth to other people and revised the wording like 74 times until they all agreed on it. Only to ultimately realize they'd accidentally sent it saying people who were still alive were dead and mentioning characters John had never heard of in hopes of motivating him.
11/10, just a casual lampooning of modern TV writing to prepare the fans for what the show would eventually do to them. Very prescient of george.
Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan
The focus on Mance is not value on Mance, it’s highlighting the lie of Jon that he was burned
Randyll Tarly wrote the letter purely because he believes in hard lessons and decided the new lord of the nights watch needed to be really tested and decided to just dump the biggest pile of chaos on Jons lap to see if he'd sink or swim (and also revenge for sending hs son to become a Mayster after all(
Love it
Spoilers?:
'Bowen Marsh wrote/edited the pink letter' theory is at least 5 years old.
It is by far my favorite pink letter theory. I'm so happy you're talking about it.
Rhaegar wrote it, so therefore Mance did it
*Wait, I am changing my mind, it was a Stannis and Mel co- production!* He knows the heraldry, the style, he could scrounge some pink wax, he knows Ramsey's big issue with his birth, and Mel knows the story with Mance, knows of Val, might suspect about the baby swap but might not, she has psy powers and might warg birds -as in a raven to do a special delivery to Stannis in the snow. Stannis wants to get Jon to join him, and Mel has been learning Jon and knows how to irritate him, knows that Jon knows Mance is alive - though she might have told Stannis the truth of that..
BUT "sounds like a song" - well that's like Mance again...
To blow all of your minds Ser Alliser Thorne
Honestly, I thought this theory was more well known.
• Knowledge of the wildlings
• Knowledge of the nobility and their infamous behaviors
• Grudge against Jon
Checks out.
@@Rougarou99 and the outcome of the letter is something that Alliser wants. Jon not to be lord commander anymore. Jon taking the pointy end and dieing is just a cherry on top for Alliser.
@@dudemistah94 For every theory I have seen regarding the major characters in Winds and beyond, Thorne seems to be one generally left out. I could imagine Alliser turning up at Castle Black, suspiciously soon after Jon's death. And the chapter Alliser Thorne leaves for a ranging is the same chapter in which Ramsay starts sending letters to Castle Black.
@@Rougarou99 look up Maester Monthly podcast Pink Letter episode Admiral Kird puts together the theory and evidence for it so well.
This is such a deranged conspiracy board at the end and I love it.
Mance listens and learns. He could know a lot more than revealed in the POV chapters, none of which are his POV.
Mance would be the only one to know about both Val & Monster, and Theon, his nickname, Jeyne and their escape
It is interesting that, thanks to GRRM's gardening technique of writing, that there is plenty of minor characterizations and themes built up throughout Dance that point to multiple characters having written it. For instance: Barbery Dustin's paranoia over the Grand Maester Conspiracy points to the Maester at the Wall, who seems to side with Marsh and the mutineers; Wyman Manderly playing the long game to place Rickon back in Winterfell (paralleling Illyrio and fAegon and the latter's revelation that the plan was for Viserys to die with the Dothraki); Stannis being less knowledgeable about the North playing into the suspicious use of "crows" in a letter supposedly written by Ramsay.
I do like the idea that Bolt-On could play a role in the Pink Letter: Roose having killed and body-swapped with Ramsay, writes the letter to establish himself as Ramsay, but gets a little overzealous and messes up some details.
I also wanted to note that anyone in Winterfell will know how many spearwives Mance brought with him because they were the six supposed washerwomen who had followed Abel the Bard into Winterfell. If anything, assuming neither Mel, Mance, nor Jon wrote the Pink Letter, this would narrow it down to someone in Winterfell or Stannis's camp.
Theon's hand is so fucked , I don't think he would be able to write . Someone could have helped him , but it seems unlikely to me given his circumstances.
Loved the video !
What if Jon himself wrote it?
Edit: I am now at that part. I did not think it was even a theory. I was listening building a cupboard and thought, "fuck it, what if it was yaboi JSnow?"
Look, it goes against his character, and there is very little (if any) evidence. However, he may still have done it for some reason; there are personal reasons. It's not like the Starks don't do things (for the right reasons/goals) that get them killed. The bros that killed him could have taken advantage of the situation, as people tend to do.
I don't believe this one, but it's interesting to think about.
"the real death threats and demands were inside you all along Jon."
Watching this back and still absolutely dying at the thumbnail
This was my favorite thumbnail yall have ever put out.
"In Braavos you may hear that I'm dead. It may even be true"
-Stannis to Jon before marching
*to Justin Massey
I don't see Jon as that big of a lush, I think they put something in his wine.
If we believe that somebody send one letter and then Bowen/Clydas modified it, then this original pink letter could be completely different in tone and meaning - and even whom it was addressed to. For example, maybe Stannis/Mance sent a letter to Melisandre, in order to keep her updated about the latest developments with the rescue of Arya etc. And then Bowen and Clydas intercepted that letter and incorporated this information into their own scheming.
Addendum/Edit: I just remembered that Melisandre earlier that day tells Jon to look out for a "message from the sky" (or something like that -- I don't remember the exact quote). So now I'm leaning towards that the original message was from Mance to Jon and basically said "Good news, Jon! We managed to convince Ramsay's servant Reek to betray his leader and rescue your sister Arya; they should both be travelling to the wall as you read this". And that's how Bowen/Clydas know who Reek is, but not that Reek is Theon.
Only Mance had the means to know each point in the letter, so it has to be Mance. Or Stannis with Mance's advice.
About Clytus/Bowen editing the letter, re "crows"... Tbh they might not know that crows isn't a Northern thing, as opposed to a wildling only thing. A lot if Southern Westerosi view Northerners as savages and half-wildling anyway, even those who should know different.
Roose Bolton via his maester is by far the best answer, and the best set up in the text
You guys are just brilliant. Love these discussions
The freys also tried feeding the great John tons of alcohol to make him into an easy kill
You can see a little bit of frustration building up in Jon over Dance, the only day he has a tiny break in the bad news is the wedding day of Alice and the Magnar or maybe the deal he did with Tycho.
I mean dang, you call that a job?
Roose knows that "Arya" is not real for sure. Ramsay might. Or not. Roose must feel he simply must have something on his horrible son to control him at least a little.
Just because the pink letter failed to get Jon away from the Wall alive doesn't mean the writers did not want it to.
Manderly's son just made it back home from being imprisoned by the Freys/Lannisters, did he know about Robb intending to make Jon his heir? He'd have told Dad, right?
Rickon could be talked into sending Jon North .
If Craster has any royal blood, it is the royal blood of the Starks, the Kings of the North. See Ygritte's recitation of the story of Beal the Bard and the Winter Rose and their child who ruled Winterfell.
Some other options thrown around: Bloodraven, Lady Dustin, Queen Selyse, Ser Alliser
ANYONE but Gilly. I would believe Tommen before Gilly.
RavenGPT wrote it
This joke is exceptional
......he wasn't there again today. I think he's from the C.I.A.
Im now confident nobody wrote the letter
It's a figment of a collective delusion
Wait. The men who murdered Jon might or might not have needed the excuse of his intended desertion to off him, and maybe not.
What’s the payout for guessing Moonboy
What a very fun content idea lol. Giving fake betting odds for solutions to ASOIAF questions is so funny.
I'm with Tormund. It is not Ramsay.
43:05 Ghost sensing treachery is because of the murder, not because of the mean letter.
Idk… Stannis would give a king respect, he said you may hear I’m dead, and he really wanted Jon to take over winterfell. Jon is so honorable, maybe he felt the only way to get him was through a “noble” trick. Also, love the idea that the letter was held for a while for the watch to plan a coup. If Stannis has Theon, Theon can fill him in on the spear wives and Abel. Plus, as much as we want to sanitize Stannis’ image, he still used trickery and magic through the shadow baby to get want he feels is rightfully his.
I know you guys hate it, but my money is still on Stannis with the help of Theon and the Watch kept the letter for a while.
That's Bran's power not Theon's- but a cool theory.
Lady Dustyn. No, I wont elaborate.
I think most of the objections to Stannis could be answered by him doing Zoom sessions with Mel!
Jon is kinda a son by alliance of Elia Martell, so it could be a genius plot by Doran to help him.
Ser Pounce warged by old nan duh
Alys is the one who says that her granduncle is only supporting Stannis in order to get close and betray him.
And doesn't she arrive ALONE?
The nasty relatives arrive after her and Jon throws them in the cold cells.
Surely a receipt and then the wall conspirators sitting on the letter before using it to catalyse their coup makes the timeline issue worse, not better?
Time traveling bran wrote it
I knew it. It's always that guy.
I don't think Wyman wrote it, but having Rickon does NOT mean he's won, because it's comparing a battle-seasoned teenage leader against a 4-year old, and boy lords are not a desirable thing, especially in times of war. If he has Rickon, he needs to either kill Jon or get Jon on side with Rickon as a supporter to avoid Jon becoming a valid opponent
Rickon and Jon would not go against each other
@@niccologregorutti9309 rickon and Jon know they wouldn't go against each other, but the Lords of the North don't know that
@@bronhaller The Lords of the North don't know about Rickon,only Manderly knows. And everyone knows that Jon is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch,meaning that he can't hold lands etcetera. I think the Northern Lords plan to unite under Arya (Jeyne Poole),except for Wyman that knows about Rickon,and Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover that are in the Neck with Robb's letter. There won't be a civil war among Starks in the North in my opinion
Robb's will you mean? Jayne Westerling Stark has it, according to Company of the Cat.@@niccologregorutti9309
Four points in favor of the Bowen/clydas theory.
1. The Nights watch sent guides with tycho who is the one who delivers theon to Jane. If Bowen has a loyal man in those guides it's definitely possible that the information about theon was passed along.
2. There's a lot of respect in the letter for mance is a major factor in inciting the wildlings in the shield hall, if the whole point is to create a pretext to kill the wildlings during the coup, wildlings planning to march on winterfell is basically an attack on the realm and justification to kill them.
3. Why does Bowen claim Stannis is dead, if the queens men believe Stannis dead it throughs them into chaos figuring out what to do next making them less likely to intervene in a coup.
4. Sam doesn't notice the baby swap for a while on the boat but the babies clearly have different temperaments. The babies crying can be heard throughout the castle is it possible Bowen noticed the swap, I don't think it's impossible.
Can't you just make pink wax from red + white wax? Any mention of a red candle just prior?
Im going with wyman manderly..there are 3 maesters at winterfell right now.. maester henly from blackpool,medrick from hornwood* and rodrey from cerwyn........maester medrick from hornwood would presumably be donnellas hornwood maester and he would have a motive to join forces with wyman....he would have access to the ravens, wax and access to wyman as he is currently having his neck stitched up by him....wyman gained access of the knowledge of mance through able who sailed from eastwatch to the dreadfort,missed the boltons as they left for winterfell and fell in with the manderly baggage train as a bard...he seen or knew wyman killed the freys and gained his trust he exposed himself....the proof, while they are in winterfell and they are eating frey pie, wyman manderly asks able to sing night watch songs..danny flynn,the night that ended and the rat cook........that would give wyman access to the raven,the wax,the knowledge of castle black,reek, arya,mance,the spear wives mances son and even the availble TIME to get it done.......who has the moment in time get it done,meaning at what point does this person get the time to access to the rookery.....wyman does,when he gets stitched up by medrick, his deceased cousins maester......
i want it to be mance but idk
Hey- so I am not gonna elaborate too much on this but I think that this letter is written by Wyman Manderly- i believe the information regarding mance and the spear wives is because we will discover that the manderlys, Dustins, and possibly risewells (tho I am unsure) have removed the Boltons and I really think there is a lot to imply that Mance and the surviving spearwives are captured.
I think it's too simple to assume this is written by one person!
Genuinely tho I think Bowen Marsh and Clydus is about as likely as Ramsay as the author. The reality of them having anything to do with the letter and Jon getting it the day they execute the coup is... It just is extremely baffling use of wordcount that does nothing to expand on either the characters or the world in a way that is not already accomplished by the coup itself.
Like- nothing short of the absolute most is going to drag Jon off the wall. Mance knows that, anyone who knows a stark knows that. If Manderly- requested his presence Jon would decline. Jon turned down WINTERELL for the wall and told Stannis to Hit Da Bricks over the subject of castles. (An exaggeration I know). Jon will not leave the wall- and all I gotta say is: go re-read those Davos chapters
If we send a theory do yall respond to the email to let people know it was received? I sent one in a while ago and just wanna make sure I didn’t fat finger the address.
Could Maester Tybald be a Lannister?
Last seen a horse.
Hast anyone already named Hot Pie?
Strong Belwas wrote it.
It’s lady Dustin, she believes that Jon isn’t Ned’s bastard but Brandon’s boom jk
It was Reznak mo Reznak
Mo reznak mo problems
The funny thing is about Arya' name vs "my bride" is that that is a wash....the letter admits she has gotten away. One less thing for Jon to agonize over.