@@EVOLUTIONINCARNATE isn't the difference between Livyatan and Megalodon's relationship between Orcas that the whale stopped the Orcas from dominating the oceans while Megalodon went extinct shortly after Orcas appeared in the fossil record?
@@flygawnebardoflight no actually, orca’s appearance in the fossil record happens after megalodon goes extinct And these early orcas were eating fish, not like todays marine mammal eating orcas Livyatan went extinct first of the 3 and then megalodon went extinct after that. Then orcas come around
I never realized that there were so many species of predatory whales around back in the Miocene. Imagine if some were still around today! Deep sea fishing would be a very risky venture with those monsters hunting the depths.
The only giant whale I think would likely attack people from time to time is basilosaurus due to it's traditional carnivore niche and especially the fact that it was very primitive, if this one was anywhere near as smart as modern sperm whales it likely would avoid humans but might still attack ships like a real life Moby dick. Cetaceans are so smart, usually that they know humans aren't food immediately.
Porphyrios is an example of a huge whale that attacked sailers incessantly over the span of 50 years before eventually beaching itself, it's a bit like the real life Moby Dick, so i guess that's sorta like what you're talking about! It made no distinctions with who it attacked, sinking many ships, and sailers would have to take detours to avoid encountering it. I recommend googling about him if you're interested!
My absolute favorite physeteriod. Mad respect for giving my boy megalodon a run for its money. The oceans back then must have been an amazing and terrifying place.
Levyiatan went extinct millions of years before megaladon, they could not compete. Nothing gave megs a run for their money, the only thing that could was climate change
@Hans Katzgeld you're wrong. First; mosasaurs went extinct during the Mesozoic, while megs lived tens of millions of years apart in the cenozoic 🤦♂️🤭 Secondly; orcas were the size of pigmy killer whalesband gws the size of mako sharks during the time of megaladon. Blaming them for megs extinction is a ridiculous and disproven theory. Hiw can a shark that weighs a few hundred lbs as an adult outcompete a 30-60 ton oceanic apex predator? See how ridiculous this sounds? During megs extinction almost all baleen whales and half of all phytoplankton went extinct. Unless you want to also blame gws for THAT, then your theory is a fallacy. Thirdly, the "gian orca" is leviyatan, and it went extinct millions of years ago because megaladon outcompeted them.
@AuntieK Official i agree with you, I just disagree with the notion that meg went into competition with gws back then. Megs couldn't survive on gws small mammal diet. The same way rats did not outcompete trex, trex simply ran out of food, rats did not
@@trvth1s It's unlikely megalodon outcompeted Livyatan. Livyatan evolved after megalodon, and went extinct between 8.9-5 million years ago, which while predating the extinction of megalodon, likely had little to do with megalodon and more likely from climate change and competition with ancestors of modern Orcas. And most size estimates for Megalodon are highly exaggerated. A length of 35 ft was the likely average, with larger sizes likely being quite rare (though not impossible, given individuals can be above or below average). Livyatan probably averaged larger in size, given that fish have a maximum possible size due to the limitations of aquatic respiration.
It still kinda bugs me that the reason it's called Livyatan and not Leviathan is because some dumbass thought it would be a great idea to use "Leviathan" as part of the scientific name of some elephant. But that's just me.
@mcchickenz It actually is but it is exactly the same as Leviathan, just different spelling, simply because "leviathan" was taken - for the most inappropriate animal.
Thank you so very much! This is one of my favorite extinct critters. I grew up in a family who's business was excavation of canals and rock quarries, we dug up countless fossils of marine and terrestrial species including early whales and dolphins. We love your show Doc. Keep them coming.
@@waksukka I've known about this channel and trey the explainer but I've recently found a plethora of good paleo videos; ironically or incidentally, you decide, from ark survival tutorials xD
Humans have been able to survive, diversify, and dominate the planet...coming from the harshest environment(The African Savannah), and dealing with some of the deadliest predators/herbivores the planet has EVER seen. Many of these mega-mammalian predators that we had to deal with, were driven to extinction by us. And we're talking about primitive humans and human ancestors, that went on to dominate the planet. And these animals may be fascinating to us, because they're extinct, and we've never seen them alive. But to ancient humans and human ancestors, these types of animals would be 'normal', and just part of the everyday ecosystem.
I remember when this animal was first discovered. First thing everyone started rattling off was "Who would win this or Megalodon?!" and all I could think is "This is why you got bullied in highschool"
Orcas are maybe the replacement of the mid sized raptorial sperm whales from the past but not the Livyatan, no single orca can possibly attack the baleen giant whales while the Livyatan was definitely doing that regularly, similar size, sonar and those jaws...
Out of curiosity, do you plan on covering any larger carnivorous species from the Paleozoic era. It seems like out of the three geological era, it seems like the Paleozoic gets the least amount of coverage.
Great vid as always Dr Polaris! As my previous comment stated, this is one of my favorite subjects with their amazing diet and evosystem that made their home and it's always so fascinating hearing more about them and having them see the spotlight.
Since manatees feed on marine grasses it can be argued that they have not entirely severed their ties to land. The grasses have migrated to underwater land.
@@dondragmer2412 Repatriation would be a more suitable choice regarding the manatees food source. All evolved life on land came from the sea after all.
It's always peculiar how, when discussing what the largest active predator on the planet was, Physeter macrocephalus is almost always neglected. But the modern day sperm whale is a serious contender for the title. It could be the largest predator this planet has ever seen, depending of course on how one defines predator. While many large, now extinct, carnivorous marine predators seem to reach sizes of around 13 to 17 meters, a couple of species go beyond that, and we get those truly giant 'macro' predators that go up to 18 or 20 meters. It already occurred in the Triassic, with some species of Shastasaurus reaching a mind-blowing 21 meters. Mosasaurus hoffmannii could potentially be grouped in this 18+ meter size range. Basilosaurus cetoidus, with its almost absurdly elongated body reached 20 meters, but its weight wouldn't have been that impressive. Megalodon's size is often exaggerated in pop-culture, but I think it belongs in the size range of 13 to 17 meters; not quite up there with the really big boys. You then get to Livyatan, and it's not entirely clear how big it was; 18 meters perhaps, but who knows how large individual animals could have grown. What IS known, however, is that male sperm whales can reach 20 meters in length. Although 18 meters seems to be a more average size for large males, the largest accepted size measured is 20,7 meters. One individual was said to have been 24 meters, according to a report from the 1930s. The infamous and devilish Mocha Dick was said to have been even larger than that. If this is true, if male sperm whales did reach up to or even surpassed the 24 meters, then I honestly can't think of any other predator, extinct or extant, that could match that; effectively making the sperm whale the largest predatory animal the world has ever seen, for as far as we know.
Well there´s another competitor for the title: Shonisaurus sikannienses from the late Triassic with a confirmed length of 21 m, and we don´t even know if there were even larger ones. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shonisaurus Also Shastasaurus (from the Middle to Upper Triassic, too) could reach an enormous size up to 21 m. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shastasaurus
I'd definitely put it on a list of 'Most Impressive Predators'. I mean, the sheer depths it hunts in and the amount of pressure it must be under when hunting is phenomenal. My spazzy brain keeps trying to assign it a power level and I'm just not up to the task.
In NZ, the north canterbury coast is basically equivalent to South America's atacama desert, with disjointed whale and marine mammal fossils literally everywhere. The bones are so common that scientists are still working out just how old they are, and it's exceptionally easy for collectors of all ages to find everything from the smallest phallangal bones to huge vertebral sections, ribsn and even skulls. Highly reccomend Mamlambo Fossils' videos if you guys wanna see more on cetacean fossils!!
@David Single She listens to scientific experts, and the whales covered in this video have been dead for MILLIONS OF YEARS. Sorry there is NO link between modern politics and these species.
@David Single this video is about species that have been dead for between 40 and 20 MILLION years. I don't care about your conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with fossils, palaeontology, or geology.
The rise of orcas as apex predators took place only AFTER this thing and megalodon had been extinct for a few million years. Orcas in the Pliocene were much smaller and specialized for eating small fish and squid.
@@thegentleman4873 Sharks hunt dolphins a lot. Great whites, makos and tigers have been filmed hunting dolphins. Plus, megalodon was a hunter of a whales, dolphins and other marine mammals. Livyatan was obviously more intelligent, but it could still be at risk of an attack if it wasn't cautious.
@@thegentleman4873 Sharks DO hunt dolphins, and dolphins do much worse against sharks than you assume (they need a significant size advantage to come out on top). And even the intelligence gap isn’t all that big; sharks are much more intelligent than people give them credit for and are not instinct-driven as often assumed. And the idea mammals are more intelligent than other animals simply by being mammals has been debunked-turns out we were underestimating everything else.
It was probably an African Brown Hyena. A museum in France claims to have the thing stuffed and mounted but lost in storage. Too lazy to go look for it? I don't know. Apparently so. There is some circumstantial evidence that the animal was lost from a private zoo or circus. There is also some evidence some lunatic was actually harboring it during it's homicides. The man who shot it was suspected of being the person who was keeping it. There's a lot of dangerous nuts in the world. Who knows.
And on another note, how dangerous would these Miocene raptorial whales be to hypothetical time traveling humans? Sorry for it being a tad of a goofy question, but it’s one that I’ve been curious about.
@@dr.polaris6423 I don't know, it seems to me that species somehow pass down information over the generations. So that orcas appear to be relatively harmless to people, but perhaps that's because our two species have co-existed for some time now. It's like how wolf attacks are extremely rare in North America, and wolves typically flee from humans, but this wasn't always the case. It's why we have all of these stories about the big bad wolf; because they probably attacked people way more often in the past. Bears, same thing. Bear attacks are quite rare, but in certain places in the U.S., attacks have become more common, because hunting/shooting bears was made illegal in those places. It's like these carnivores know to avoid people, because people are dangerous, and so it's almost as if it's in their dna now to avoid us. Orcas have been known to interact with people, sometimes joining human hunts for whales, and so they learned that people can benefit them in some way, and that we can be dangerous. If you were to drop someone in a prehistoric ocean, right next to some ancient raptorial whale who has had zero contact or experience with humans, I'm not that convinced that it wouldn't try to eat the person. And people always say that there are no confirmed orca related kills in the wild, but that's misleading, because how in the world would we know that sailors or fishermen weren't acttacked and consumed by orcas in the past? We don't know, nor can we know. The thing about being killed at sea is that the victim isn't around anymore to report the incident.
I think that the less intelligent whales are, the more dangerous they could be. A basilosaurus didn't have the advanced intelligence for social culture the way modern whales did, so it probably behaved more like a mosasaur than a modern whale. These extinct sperm whales if anything would be very curious if they came across humans. Where that curiosity would end is anybody's guess.
@@robwalsh9843 Yeah, I remember reading in a book that Basilosaurus would have been more dangerous to humans then modern whales, for the reasons you mentioned.
@@dr.polaris6423 The reason orcas do not eat people has much more to do with the fact orcas are dietary specialists at a population level, with different populations having different cultural traditions based on what and how they hunt. Raptorial sperm whales probably had no such restrictions as to their diet, since most extant cetaceans do not.
Whale become larger due to these mega predators gone extinct. Back then, small, nimble, becoming adult faster, are better for survival amongs whale. Note that the niche left by this mega predator are still empty, so give it few millions years, earth gonna see another megalodon roaming the deep.
Okay, when was the colossal squid species identified? I never heard of it until recently, and I remember when they had never seen a picture of the then largest squid, the giant squid.
In 1820, the whaling ship Essex was rammed and sunk by a white bull sperm whale measuring about 80 feet in length. This incident became the basis of Herman Melville's novel 'Moby Dick' which became a movie. Another movie is 'In the heart of the sea'.
You say that cetaceans are the only group to sever ties to land but aren't Sirenids like Dugongs and Manatees also independent? Also just curious why the name changed from Leviathan to Livyatan. Was that genus name already taken or something seems odd to change it since Leviathan is already written in latin in older editions of the Bible.
Yeah, Leviathan was already used by Koch, 1841 (Emend. Koch, 1843), but it became synonymous with Mammut, and is no longer in use. But because Koch used it, the cetacean's name had to be changed to Livyatan. Damn shame, but it is what it is.
@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Indeed. And I bet it annoys a lot of people, even from the scientific community. I mean, why even use it for a Mastodon? Maybe "behemoth" was already assigned to a molusc or something lol.
@@XaeeD Mollusc. I suppose he had his reasons. But after all the leviathan mentioned in the Bible doesn't seem to describe a whale. It's described as a serpent, even a multi-headed one. So a whale doesn't seem any closer in resemblance to the Biblical leviathan than a mastodon.
Its strange that they would die out, maybe their diet had become too restrictive in range. Acrophyseter looks like much larger forms of river dolphins. While the Rhaphicetus valenciae looks like it went a convergent evolutionary route of the ichthyosaurs basal forms - making me wonder if they took over their food niche for a while. Why would these smaller Physeteroidea die out, Dwarf and Pigmy sperm whales survive??? Any speculative ideas as to why they would die out? Maybe you can do a seperate programs to discuss the speculative causes of extinction for some of the families, genera or species, that you have gone over. Thank you for sharing this wonderful program, Dr. Polaris! 👍😊
Livyatan and megalodon... Were they territorial? Was there inter-species feuding? Or would they have tried to avoid each other because each was such a threat to the other? I sure would like to have seen it - from a ship, a really really big ship...
Basically if God,himself as a massive 70 ton monsterous physeteriod,that could even defeat the mighty SharkZilla,during the Miocene Era. Overall this was a very good video about this *AWESOME* prehistoric physeteroid,we know as a killer sprem whale,and cause it's a Polar Bear with a monoclus,and how can you say no to that.
Are we sure about the beaked ones? Since melons don’t fossilize, how can we be sure that the soft tissue didn’t extend to the full length of the maxilla and possibly beyond as in modern sperm whales?
I speculate that while Megalodon and Livyatan avoided conflict, they probably fed on each others juveniles. Given that Great Whites feed on Humpback Whale calves sometimes, there might be some truth to this...
i find the whale skeletons to be a little bit eerie, especially with the bony "fingers" in their fins it's nothing unusual but when the vid shows pics of whale skeletons they kind of look humanoid in nature...
Oh hey I helped advise that one piece of the two megalodon’s with a livyatan This is based on how megalodon’s relatives are highly social sharks like sand tigers, basking sharks, porbeagles, and great whites
I could just imagine what it would have been like trying to go fishing back in those days if someone ever went back in time and was able to do it lol it would be so scary who would know what you would catch
I am way more scared of wales than sharks, and this is the reason, they’ve dominated the oceans for millions of years and to some extent, some species were far more superior than sharks, Megalodon had a lot of competition and rivalries
Anybody privy to a full odontoceti phylogeny? I'm trying to find the relationships between melon headed whales and false killer whale and pilot whales and pygmy orcas and orcas and Risso etc.... Or have tbe lazy molecular biologists not worked it out yet?
Imagine an animal so oppressive that even the modern ocean bullies, The Killer Whale, couldn't thrive at the same time this animal did. That's insane.
You don't need to imagine it, an orca is no match for a living Bull Sperm Whale either.
Yeah megalodon is pretty cool lol
@@EVOLUTIONINCARNATE isn't the difference between Livyatan and Megalodon's relationship between Orcas that the whale stopped the Orcas from dominating the oceans while Megalodon went extinct shortly after Orcas appeared in the fossil record?
@@flygawnebardoflight no actually, orca’s appearance in the fossil record happens after megalodon goes extinct
And these early orcas were eating fish, not like todays marine mammal eating orcas
Livyatan went extinct first of the 3 and then megalodon went extinct after that. Then orcas come around
Oppressive is a wrong word for that
I never realized that there were so many species of predatory whales around back in the Miocene. Imagine if some were still around today! Deep sea fishing would be a very risky venture with those monsters hunting the depths.
Yeah whale diversity dropped quite significantly after the Miocene as the oceans cooled.
The only giant whale I think would likely attack people from time to time is basilosaurus due to it's traditional carnivore niche and especially the fact that it was very primitive, if this one was anywhere near as smart as modern sperm whales it likely would avoid humans but might still attack ships like a real life Moby dick. Cetaceans are so smart, usually that they know humans aren't food immediately.
Porphyrios is an example of a huge whale that attacked sailers incessantly over the span of 50 years before eventually beaching itself, it's a bit like the real life Moby Dick, so i guess that's sorta like what you're talking about! It made no distinctions with who it attacked, sinking many ships, and sailers would have to take detours to avoid encountering it. I recommend googling about him if you're interested!
My absolute favorite physeteriod. Mad respect for giving my boy megalodon a run for its money. The oceans back then must have been an amazing and terrifying place.
Levyiatan went extinct millions of years before megaladon, they could not compete. Nothing gave megs a run for their money, the only thing that could was climate change
@@trvth1s They were evenly matched as competitors; Livyatan just proved to be less adaptable to change hence it going extinct a bit earlier.
@Hans Katzgeld you're wrong.
First; mosasaurs went extinct during the Mesozoic, while megs lived tens of millions of years apart in the cenozoic 🤦♂️🤭
Secondly; orcas were the size of pigmy killer whalesband gws the size of mako sharks during the time of megaladon. Blaming them for megs extinction is a ridiculous and disproven theory. Hiw can a shark that weighs a few hundred lbs as an adult outcompete a 30-60 ton oceanic apex predator? See how ridiculous this sounds? During megs extinction almost all baleen whales and half of all phytoplankton went extinct. Unless you want to also blame gws for THAT, then your theory is a fallacy.
Thirdly, the "gian orca" is leviyatan, and it went extinct millions of years ago because megaladon outcompeted them.
@AuntieK Official i agree with you, I just disagree with the notion that meg went into competition with gws back then. Megs couldn't survive on gws small mammal diet. The same way rats did not outcompete trex, trex simply ran out of food, rats did not
@@trvth1s It's unlikely megalodon outcompeted Livyatan. Livyatan evolved after megalodon, and went extinct between 8.9-5 million years ago, which while predating the extinction of megalodon, likely had little to do with megalodon and more likely from climate change and competition with ancestors of modern Orcas.
And most size estimates for Megalodon are highly exaggerated. A length of 35 ft was the likely average, with larger sizes likely being quite rare (though not impossible, given individuals can be above or below average). Livyatan probably averaged larger in size, given that fish have a maximum possible size due to the limitations of aquatic respiration.
Megalodon : finally a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary
Let's call it Tai Meg!
In terms of survival as a species the shark actually won, since it lasted another million years or two after this cetacean went extinct.
yes
fun fact megalodon and livyatan coexisted together in the pisco formation in peru
@@Robot-xn8fu Along with a bunch of other, smaller predators. That place puts the Western Interior Seaway to shame in terms of predator diversity.
It still kinda bugs me that the reason it's called Livyatan and not Leviathan is because some dumbass thought it would be a great idea to use "Leviathan" as part of the scientific name of some elephant. But that's just me.
I agree with you!
@mcchickenz It actually is but it is exactly the same as Leviathan, just different spelling, simply because "leviathan" was taken - for the most inappropriate animal.
@mcchickenz ...............ok internet tough guy.
Isn't leviathan used in loads of different creatures like in the bible and games so why would it matter
@@acnologi1115 Sweetheart, don't be ignorant.
Thank you so very much!
This is one of my favorite extinct critters.
I grew up in a family who's business was excavation of canals and rock quarries, we dug up countless fossils of marine and terrestrial species including early whales and dolphins.
We love your show Doc. Keep them coming.
That’s cool I bet you have a nice collection.
Whose. "who's" is the abbreviation for "who is."
It staggers me, the world we almost inherited. How different would human history have been...?
Would we even have been able to evolve lol?
Yeah lol, what human history?
@@waksukka I've known about this channel and trey the explainer but I've recently found a plethora of good paleo videos; ironically or incidentally, you decide, from ark survival tutorials xD
Humans have been able to survive, diversify, and dominate the planet...coming from the harshest environment(The African Savannah), and dealing with some of the deadliest predators/herbivores the planet has EVER seen. Many of these mega-mammalian predators that we had to deal with, were driven to extinction by us. And we're talking about primitive humans and human ancestors, that went on to dominate the planet.
And these animals may be fascinating to us, because they're extinct, and we've never seen them alive. But to ancient humans and human ancestors, these types of animals would be 'normal', and just part of the everyday ecosystem.
@@Ispeakthetruthify idk man. And the savannah was way less harsh than the colder climates humans spread too. Well see what happens lmao.
I remember when this animal was first discovered. First thing everyone started rattling off was "Who would win this or Megalodon?!" and all I could think is "This is why you got bullied in highschool"
For April 1st. you should do a piece on Dr. Zoidberg as an actual specimen...
Dr Zoidberg is a penniless lobster doctor, and no part of him should be a comedian lol
The last time I was this early to a video, you could still see Livyatan without needing it illustrated.
I'm glad you didn't swim with them.
The last time I was this late your father was still getting his milk.
Aaaahaaa!
Orcas are maybe the replacement of the mid sized raptorial sperm whales from the past but not the Livyatan, no single orca can possibly attack the baleen giant whales while the Livyatan was definitely doing that regularly, similar size, sonar and those jaws...
Out of curiosity, do you plan on covering any larger carnivorous species from the Paleozoic era. It seems like out of the three geological era, it seems like the Paleozoic gets the least amount of coverage.
That's an interesting idea. I may start covering the Paleozoic in the future.
@@dr.polaris6423 Yeah, man..love me some Paleozoic..those Silurian seas and Devonian oceans...
Mammal-like reptiles definitely need more love.
Dimetrodon was one of my favorite "dinosaurs" growing up.
Great vid as always Dr Polaris! As my previous comment stated, this is one of my favorite subjects with their amazing diet and evosystem that made their home and it's always so fascinating hearing more about them and having them see the spotlight.
"Cetaceans were the only group of mammals to entirely sever their ties to the land". Manatees: "We"re floating right here!"
Since manatees feed on marine grasses it can be argued that they have not entirely severed their ties to land. The grasses have migrated to underwater land.
@@dondragmer2412 Repatriation would be a more suitable choice regarding the manatees food source. All evolved life on land came from the sea after all.
*"Cetaceans were the only group of mammals to entirely sever their links to the land..."*
So, what are sirenians: chopped liver?
They weren't around yet
"Am I a jokey for you?
Emphasis on the “WERE”
With the way they look, yes.
@@fluffysheap They were around and fully aquatic by this point.
It's always peculiar how, when discussing what the largest active predator on the planet was, Physeter macrocephalus is almost always neglected. But the modern day sperm whale is a serious contender for the title. It could be the largest predator this planet has ever seen, depending of course on how one defines predator. While many large, now extinct, carnivorous marine predators seem to reach sizes of around 13 to 17 meters, a couple of species go beyond that, and we get those truly giant 'macro' predators that go up to 18 or 20 meters. It already occurred in the Triassic, with some species of Shastasaurus reaching a mind-blowing 21 meters. Mosasaurus hoffmannii could potentially be grouped in this 18+ meter size range. Basilosaurus cetoidus, with its almost absurdly elongated body reached 20 meters, but its weight wouldn't have been that impressive. Megalodon's size is often exaggerated in pop-culture, but I think it belongs in the size range of 13 to 17 meters; not quite up there with the really big boys. You then get to Livyatan, and it's not entirely clear how big it was; 18 meters perhaps, but who knows how large individual animals could have grown. What IS known, however, is that male sperm whales can reach 20 meters in length. Although 18 meters seems to be a more average size for large males, the largest accepted size measured is 20,7 meters. One individual was said to have been 24 meters, according to a report from the 1930s. The infamous and devilish Mocha Dick was said to have been even larger than that. If this is true, if male sperm whales did reach up to or even surpassed the 24 meters, then I honestly can't think of any other predator, extinct or extant, that could match that; effectively making the sperm whale the largest predatory animal the world has ever seen, for as far as we know.
Well there´s another competitor for the title: Shonisaurus sikannienses from the late Triassic with a confirmed length of 21 m, and we don´t even know if there were even larger ones. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shonisaurus Also Shastasaurus (from the Middle to Upper Triassic, too) could reach an enormous size up to 21 m. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shastasaurus
I regard blue whales as the largest predator to have ever existed. After all, krill, its tiny shrimp-like and main food source, are animals.
I'd definitely put it on a list of 'Most Impressive Predators'.
I mean, the sheer depths it hunts in and the amount of pressure it must be under when hunting is phenomenal. My spazzy brain keeps trying to assign it a power level and I'm just not up to the task.
@@dontmindme1681 it's like half megalodon and half sperm whale
Currently otodus megalodon size estimates have it reaching up to 20m
Livyatan is probably my favorite Cenozoic carnivore.
I thought Megalodon had been moved into a clade with Otodus now, rather than being grouped under Carcharocles?
Still under debate. Not all scientists concurr.
@@dondragmer2412 they're officially named- Otodus megalodon now.
@@shafqatishan437 Thank you. The ever changing word of taxonomy can often be hard to keep up with.
In NZ, the north canterbury coast is basically equivalent to South America's atacama desert, with disjointed whale and marine mammal fossils literally everywhere. The bones are so common that scientists are still working out just how old they are, and it's exceptionally easy for collectors of all ages to find everything from the smallest phallangal bones to huge vertebral sections, ribsn and even skulls. Highly reccomend Mamlambo Fossils' videos if you guys wanna see more on cetacean fossils!!
@David Single She listens to scientific experts, and the whales covered in this video have been dead for MILLIONS OF YEARS. Sorry there is NO link between modern politics and these species.
@David Single this video is about species that have been dead for between 40 and 20 MILLION years. I don't care about your conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with fossils, palaeontology, or geology.
@David Single I don't care man. your comments have nothing to do with mine, nor the video. We're talking fossils and real science here. E noho ai koe.
One criticism though
Zygophyseter wouldve looked more like a physeteroid like koigia than a delphinid
Otherwise great video!
Last time I called a Dolphin a Delphinoid I got flippered in the face.
@@MarkVrem f
Also megalodon is now on Otodus genus, they missed it here.
Great video, ceteceans are so fascinating.
Can you do an episode about orcas and their rise to the top of the food chain?!
The rise of orcas as apex predators took place only AFTER this thing and megalodon had been extinct for a few million years. Orcas in the Pliocene were much smaller and specialized for eating small fish and squid.
Random fact: I was reading articles about livyatan about 8 hours ago.
Ahhh... the Meg’s mammalian rival
This whale had teeth far bigger and Was probably more intelligent being a mammal. Sharks don’t hunt dolphins today Because they jab them
@@thegentleman4873 Sharks hunt dolphins a lot. Great whites, makos and tigers have been filmed hunting dolphins. Plus, megalodon was a hunter of a whales, dolphins and other marine mammals. Livyatan was obviously more intelligent, but it could still be at risk of an attack if it wasn't cautious.
@@thegentleman4873
Sharks DO hunt dolphins, and dolphins do much worse against sharks than you assume (they need a significant size advantage to come out on top).
And even the intelligence gap isn’t all that big; sharks are much more intelligent than people give them credit for and are not instinct-driven as often assumed. And the idea mammals are more intelligent than other animals simply by being mammals has been debunked-turns out we were underestimating everything else.
@@bkjeong4302 Yes I know intelligence is well represented in Octopus and Ravens too
@@thegentleman4873 Actually...sharks are the number 1 predator of dolphins.
Hello, Doctor. Would you do a vid on The Wild Beast of Givudan, the alleged Maneating Wolf of France?
It was probably an African Brown Hyena. A museum in France claims to have the thing stuffed and mounted but lost in storage. Too lazy to go look for it? I don't know. Apparently so.
There is some circumstantial evidence that the animal was lost from a private zoo or circus. There is also some evidence some lunatic was actually harboring it during it's homicides. The man who shot it was suspected of being the person who was keeping it.
There's a lot of dangerous nuts in the world. Who knows.
@@bretthess6376 Amazing legend. Btw, I saw the movie based on this story, Brotherhood of the Wolf back when it came out and it was great.
And on another note, how dangerous would these Miocene raptorial whales be to hypothetical time traveling humans? Sorry for it being a tad of a goofy question, but it’s one that I’ve been curious about.
Probably as dangerous as Orcas are to humans today.
@@dr.polaris6423 I don't know, it seems to me that species somehow pass down information over the generations. So that orcas appear to be relatively harmless to people, but perhaps that's because our two species have co-existed for some time now. It's like how wolf attacks are extremely rare in North America, and wolves typically flee from humans, but this wasn't always the case. It's why we have all of these stories about the big bad wolf; because they probably attacked people way more often in the past. Bears, same thing. Bear attacks are quite rare, but in certain places in the U.S., attacks have become more common, because hunting/shooting bears was made illegal in those places. It's like these carnivores know to avoid people, because people are dangerous, and so it's almost as if it's in their dna now to avoid us. Orcas have been known to interact with people, sometimes joining human hunts for whales, and so they learned that people can benefit them in some way, and that we can be dangerous. If you were to drop someone in a prehistoric ocean, right next to some ancient raptorial whale who has had zero contact or experience with humans, I'm not that convinced that it wouldn't try to eat the person. And people always say that there are no confirmed orca related kills in the wild, but that's misleading, because how in the world would we know that sailors or fishermen weren't acttacked and consumed by orcas in the past? We don't know, nor can we know. The thing about being killed at sea is that the victim isn't around anymore to report the incident.
I think that the less intelligent whales are, the more dangerous they could be. A basilosaurus didn't have the advanced intelligence for social culture the way modern whales did, so it probably behaved more like a mosasaur than a modern whale. These extinct sperm whales if anything would be very curious if they came across humans. Where that curiosity would end is anybody's guess.
@@robwalsh9843 Yeah, I remember reading in a book that Basilosaurus would have been more dangerous to humans then modern whales, for the reasons you mentioned.
@@dr.polaris6423
The reason orcas do not eat people has much more to do with the fact orcas are dietary specialists at a population level, with different populations having different cultural traditions based on what and how they hunt.
Raptorial sperm whales probably had no such restrictions as to their diet, since most extant cetaceans do not.
Whale become larger due to these mega predators gone extinct. Back then, small, nimble, becoming adult faster, are better for survival amongs whale.
Note that the niche left by this mega predator are still empty, so give it few millions years, earth gonna see another megalodon roaming the deep.
Okay, when was the colossal squid species identified? I never heard of it until recently, and I remember when they had never seen a picture of the then largest squid, the giant squid.
I would love a video on Sparassodonta (Thylacosmlius and its kin).
Thank you for converting metrics to something that I understand.
firesong83 I agree 100%.
Ok caveman.
Never heard of dwarf sperm whales. Thank you.
In 1820, the whaling ship Essex was rammed and sunk by a white bull sperm whale measuring about 80 feet in length. This incident became the basis of Herman Melville's novel 'Moby Dick' which became a movie.
Another movie is 'In the heart of the sea'.
You say that cetaceans are the only group to sever ties to land but aren't Sirenids like Dugongs and Manatees also independent?
Also just curious why the name changed from Leviathan to Livyatan. Was that genus name already taken or something seems odd to change it since Leviathan is already written in latin in older editions of the Bible.
Yeah, Leviathan was already used by Koch, 1841 (Emend. Koch, 1843), but it became synonymous with Mammut, and is no longer in use. But because Koch used it, the cetacean's name had to be changed to Livyatan. Damn shame, but it is what it is.
@@XaeeD seems odd since that name is not technically in valid use
@@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster Indeed. And I bet it annoys a lot of people, even from the scientific community. I mean, why even use it for a Mastodon? Maybe "behemoth" was already assigned to a molusc or something lol.
@@XaeeD Not a shame. Livyatan is just as good for me.
@@XaeeD Mollusc. I suppose he had his reasons. But after all the leviathan mentioned in the Bible doesn't seem to describe a whale. It's described as a serpent, even a multi-headed one. So a whale doesn't seem any closer in resemblance to the Biblical leviathan than a mastodon.
Great video! One thing though, megalodon's genus name is now thought to be Otodus, not Carcharocles :)
I believe it's still under debate.
@@dondragmer2412 Otodus is the most accurate currently, Carcharocles may be invaild, we just dont know.
Thank you for the presentation.
Great video
Its strange that they would die out, maybe their diet had become too restrictive in range. Acrophyseter looks like much larger forms of river dolphins. While the Rhaphicetus valenciae looks like it went a convergent evolutionary route of the ichthyosaurs basal forms - making me wonder if they took over their food niche for a while. Why would these smaller Physeteroidea die out, Dwarf and Pigmy sperm whales survive??? Any speculative ideas as to why they would die out? Maybe you can do a seperate programs to discuss the speculative causes of extinction for some of the families, genera or species, that you have gone over. Thank you for sharing this wonderful program, Dr. Polaris! 👍😊
The best criptozological channel!
You know looks like real monstro the whale from Pinocchio
Of all prehistoric animals, Livyatans name is my favorite. Both names are references to things I love.
Excellent presentation.
This informative and very entertaining site on UA-cam is A plus! StocktonRob
Absolutely fascinating chapter of our planet!! Thanks for your research and presentation.
Great stuff as usual Doc. Keep up the great work!
Very good! I bet you can do rhino evolution videos.
This is how I get back at my thalassophobia
Livyatan and megalodon... Were they territorial? Was there inter-species feuding? Or would they have tried to avoid each other because each was such a threat to the other? I sure would like to have seen it - from a ship, a really really big ship...
It's very interesting to imagine how these two apex predators may have interacted. I don't think we have any evidence of this at the present though.
Ty for sharing this info.
A creature so large it always hungers
I love the painting at 7:40 I want to buy it. Who is the artist?
Errrrrmmm, aren't modern Sperm Whales killers too...
More in the sense of active macropredator, like modern killer whales.
Dora (don), the explorer (of the food chain).
My head cannon is that Polaris from mythology is not only real but also started a UA-cam channel
Basically if God,himself as a massive 70 ton monsterous physeteriod,that could even defeat the mighty SharkZilla,during the Miocene Era.
Overall this was a very good video about this *AWESOME* prehistoric physeteroid,we know as a killer sprem whale,and cause it's a Polar Bear with a monoclus,and how can you say no to that.
Haha thanks, glad you enjoyed the video!
Ofc,your cool
Are you going to do the tyrannosaurs?
Ive seen I believe whales 🐋 or dolphins 🐬 flapping their tails in the water I don’t know 🤷 what they’re doing? Nice 😊 video
Are we sure about the beaked ones? Since melons don’t fossilize, how can we be sure that the soft tissue didn’t extend to the full length of the maxilla and possibly beyond as in modern sperm whales?
Toothed whales have a "scoop" on the top of their skull corresponding to the extent of the melon.
@@bkjeong4302
Thanks
Fascinating!
Are deep sea angler fish possibly prehistoric decent ?
Livyatan is whale bro and whale are not fishvso they not related bro
Can you do the cryogenian peroid
Honest question: Why are orcas not considered toothed whales? What did they evolve from?
Orcas ARE toothed whales. They are dolphins, which are toothed whales.
Orcas are toothed whales, just not a part of Physeteroidea.
Whats the music at the start?
I speculate that while Megalodon and Livyatan avoided conflict, they probably fed on each others juveniles. Given that Great Whites feed on Humpback Whale calves sometimes, there might be some truth to this...
That and smaller ones of each kind probably went after the smaller one
Livyatan : you seem like a good fellow...I hate to kill you
Megalodon : you seem like a good fellow...I hate to die
Nice vid
My guess is the modern sperm whales found a stable food supply zone and that is why they survived climate change.
You rush through a huge timeline at the beginning of the video and most people have no idea what any of the terms you use refer too.
@Desert Rambler It's a constructive criticism, get over yourself.
I don't believe the sea cows go ashore so you misspoke.
what music is this?
Hi 🙋🏼♂️ prehistory fans
make a video on the cryptid dinosaur stoa
i find the whale skeletons to be a little bit eerie, especially with the bony "fingers" in their fins
it's nothing unusual but when the vid shows pics of whale skeletons they kind of look humanoid in nature...
The Porphyrios (the inspiration for Moby Dick) was probably inspired by Livyatan
Oxford Dictionary: LEVIATHAN- 1. "a sea monster. 2. "an imaginary or real aquatic animal of enormous size. 3. "anything monstrously large ".
Oh hey I helped advise that one piece of the two megalodon’s with a livyatan
This is based on how megalodon’s relatives are highly social sharks like sand tigers, basking sharks, porbeagles, and great whites
Forget Megalodon...this dude looks freaky O.o
I wonder if, had it survived up until 2mya, the Livyatan could’ve survived the ice age into our modern times.
Megalodon’s enemy was the Livyatan. Livyatan was a prehistoric killer sperm whale.
perhaps the largest and most terrifying predator in history.
Dont forget about megalodon
Plus they often have scars from doing battle with Calossal Squid and Giant Squid
Such an effective design. It's a wonder how it could fail.
whale supremacy
You forgot about manatees and dugongs 😅😅
Yeah I did :)
I could just imagine what it would have been like trying to go fishing back in those days if someone ever went back in time and was able to do it lol it would be so scary who would know what you would catch
How do spermwhales kill their prey after they caught it? Can they bite them into pieces with teeth only in the lower jaw? Do they swallow them alive?
they suck them
This creature, indeed a leviathan, pardon the pun, was not a relative of the sperm whale but instead the orca or killer whale!!!!
0:42 look @ the teeth on that bad mamma jamma
I am way more scared of wales than sharks, and this is the reason, they’ve dominated the oceans for millions of years and to some extent, some species were far more superior than sharks, Megalodon had a lot of competition and rivalries
"Orcas are not known to attack humans in the wild. That's because orcas are too smart to leave witnesses."
Dr . Polaris
Would you except a position at the SCP Foundation if offered .
My favorite raptorial sperm whale is Brygmophyseter
Biggest brain ever to exist baby
I wonder if it would have behaved the way modern whales do toward humans. Whales today barely care at all.
The topic actually starts at 7:36.
The kogia almost look more like sharks than dolphins.
Anybody privy to a full odontoceti phylogeny? I'm trying to find the relationships between melon headed whales and false killer whale and pilot whales and pygmy orcas and orcas and Risso etc....
Or have tbe lazy molecular biologists not worked it out yet?
Sperm whales are already terrifying.
Let's hope years later that the killer whales never evolve to get bigger and meaner.
The eagle isn't relative from hawk...so all the cladogram we know of the fosil...is uncertain
cool science fiction on the mega sperm whale.
Monstro was real!?!?!😱😱😱😱😱
Yep, pretty much!