Batoning is not Needed with Knowledge of Woodlore
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- In this video I make a fire to boil water for the purpose of demonstrating how understanding the ecology of the woods makes batoning unnecessary, even after heavy rains.
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Music: "back in the wood" by audionautix.com - Навчання та стиль
This takes me back! As a 12 year old kid in Northern Ontario, I would tramp the trails along power lines. I’d take a cheese sandwich and a billy can to make tea. I’d be gone all day and my parents never worried! Making fires is my favorite part of camping.
Me too :)
I think that feeling goes right back to when we started hanging about early dogs. It's hard to beat a hot cup of tea/coffee outdoors, even if it's just down the allotments of a cold, wet, wintery day. That, and somewhere dry to sit, and you're well sorted.
My buddy and I went camping every chance we got, there was always a creek or waterfall we wanted to camp by, and although we often forgot important tools, we always got by. I still pack the same belt knife I bought in high school, and I still pack the same match safe I was given on my 10th birthday.
Never owned a tent, pack, or any store bought equipment as a kid. Usually had a pack of matches, string and maybe a soup can. Owned an old metal flashlight that rarely got used because couldn't afford batteries. Made alot of shelters and made alot of fires. That was the 70s and 80s in the Appalachian mountains of WV. Now, of course, I have nice gear and lots of it but still enjoy "roughin it" with minimal and old gear. Knowledge is waaay easier to carry.
@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329My German Shepard is an excellent camp buddy and we do 4 season camping. Live in the country and camp out back alot. North midwest can get pretty chilly (lol) but she never complains. When it's time for bed, she goes right to the tent instead of the house. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Betoning may not be needed, but it is one alternative (in my opinion) to get tinder, kindling and fuel from the same piece of wood to start a fire and in certain occasions, this can be convenient, specially if everything around is really wet and if it is raining a lot.
Batoning might save your life in Washington state where it rains almost every day in the season. I get that you should use what's there already but to say it's not needed?!
Excellent point. The "all I need is . . " attitude will get you dead, if you carry it too far. Multiple options are always safer.
@@oldgettingolderhopefully6997 exactly. He taught some good stuff but the stuff he taught doesn't apply to all situations. There are different types of wood in different places too. i.e you may not be able to use the bark from the trees at hand nearby. Time may be time sensitive
Greetings from the great deserts of the SW USA! Loved this video. Around here, almost everything is small, dry and ready to burn. I'm always amazed to see the bushcraft guys in forests reducing huge pieces of wood to toothpicks with a knife and baton. They probably walked through, around, and over very suitable fuel sources for average campfire in their quest for the perfect large log. At last...a voice of reason crying from the wilderness! Thanks for showing this...
You got it *right* . I instruct search and rescue members in NM , Utah , Colorado . The term "bushcraft" is a term we avoid.
@@QuantumMechanic_88Thanks...always good to get agreeable comment from people like yourself, those with good experience levels and recognizable credentials...
YOu don’t understand … batoning is THE go-to rationalisation for buying oversized knives you’ll rarely use. Take that away from people and how will anyone EVER persuade their wives about the absolute necessity of such late night, online purchases?
Excellent point :)
😂😂😂😂 so true.
When I was a kid we called it woodcraft or wildwood wisdom, if we bothered to call these skills anythingat all, not "bushcraft"
I did just fine with an old timer folding skinning knife and matches
@@danielmart7940
In the early 1979’s I attended a summer camp in the Adirondacks Mountains (NY) that was called Adirondack Woodcraft Camp. It was founded in 1925. The original owner was still running it when I was there and, the camp is still in operation today (4th owner). In the 4 years I was there, I was never taught to “baton”. I was taught the anatomy of a tree lol
Absolutely 💯 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Agree 100%, but with a few caveats...
Batoning:
It's not a wilderness skill. It's a survival skill. It's something you learn and put in your quiver of skills. Unfortunately, bushcrafters think of it as a method to make fire (not a back-up plan). I'd say it's a good way to test any knife because if one can whittle feather sticks after batoning i through some log, that's a good knife.
Big Knives:
A big knife is probably the last tool a woodsman would need to use out in the field because if he's smart enough to carry a big knife, he probably already has an axe or hatchet, a smaller knife (fixed blade, pocket folder, whatever) and he'd probably be packing a good folding saw as well. Honestly, when I hit the woods, I use my axe the most of all and very rarely my saw (but it's 8oz of insurance) and the knife rarely comes in use.
HOWEVER...I NEVER go out into the woods without my sheath (big) knife. I could lose everything else (pocket knife, saw, axe, etc...) and still walk out of the woods fed, dry and comfortable with it because it's a One Tool Option that can do everything one needs from carving a spoon to processing fish or game to building a shelter to building a fire. There's always a ferro rod permanently attached to it so no matter what, I'd have fire & shelter covering the #1cause of deaths in the field; exposure.
As a matter of fact, if all I had was a ferro rod, I could make do with just that too (and I have) as there are always rocks around to strike it with in the Northeastern woodlands. But...there's no reason "not" to carry something that's stuck to you like an appendage. Anything in your pockets can get lost. A whole pack can tumble down a mountain. But something tethered to your belt is nearly impossible to lose and practically foolproof.
Woodlore:
The #1 field experience any real woodsman would have covers a lot. Down here in Appalachian Mountains of New York, we trip over natural tinder and even under a heavy rainfall, I know where to look to find dry materials 100% of the time. I can pop out a fire from start to self-sustainment in 5 minutes with just a knife and a ferro rod. Heck, if I had to, I could bust it out with just the ferro rod because really, Mother Nature provides just about everything we need already there for the picking (tinder, kindling, fuel).
Having said all that, that's why I stick to woodcraft and avoid buschraft like the plague that it is. Woodcraft is what blew the New World open for the first Europeans to settle America...the Spaniards. After them came the Portuguese and the French and the Danes and so on, but the Native Peoples of North America were the first woodsmen and had already mastered the wilderness before the first frozen starving pilgrim landed on Plymouth Rock
Thanks for the common sense video. Just subbed. Good stuff.
Ernest Thompson, first a Canuck, then he became an American, one of the fathers of North American woodcraft I believe put it well here:
“Woodcraft is the first of all the sciences. Woodcraft has made man out of brutish material, and Woodcraft may save him from decay.”
Hi, to be fair to the name, there are parts of the world where they don't refer to forests or woods, but to the "Bush" - Australia and South Africa come to mind. So, "bushcraft" was just another term for woodcraft. Also, some of the exponents of "bushcraft" in Australia had learned from the native population how to live in the Bush and passed that knowledge on to the Australian military. While much woodlore arose from equipped people setting off into wilderness, the military context - e.g.; WW2 - saw military personnel facing survival situations, downed pilots or shipwrecked sailors, etc. Les Hiddens was known as the Bush Tucker Man (Bush Tucker is food found in the Bush) and was a serving soldier who was, I believe, accomplished at "woodlore" and how to apply those skills to living off the land. It is just a pity that bushcraft has become associated with a particular kind of apocalyptic mindset.
While my disability now virtually prohibits me from camping, I used to enjoy camping as a boy - with the "wolf cubs/cub scouts" and would much prefer to do so with a full set of equipment and with other people than try to survive with just a ferro rod. Nevertheless, I take an interest in things like alternative methods of fire starting because they are interesting and provide a practical and even an intellectual challenge. As I only ever get to light barbeques, these days, I am probably never going to need to use anything other than a match or a lighter; but being able to do so with a ferro rod and knife or a magnifying glass or a battery and steel wool or a fire pump, etc., etc., is just fun. Approached in the correct way, it can also be educational. I haven't knapped flints or used a magnifying glass to ignite a fire since I was a boy, but being introduced to both in Cubs ignited a curiosity about a whole host of things.
Thanks man
I would say Bushcraft is dealing with the entire environment you're in while woodcraft is just working with wood.
@@agentjohnson3973 “A camper should know for himself how to outfit, how to select and make a camp, how to wield an axe and make proper fires, how to cook, wash, mend, how to travel without losing his course, or what to do when he has lost it; how to trail, hunt, shoot, fish, dress game, manage boat or canoe, and how to extemporize such makeshifts as may be needed in wilderness faring.
And he should know these things as he does the way to his mouth.
Then is he truly a woodsman, sure to do promptly the right thing at the right time, whatever befalls.”
― Horace Kephart, Woodcraft
@@charleshayes2528 Bushcraft are wilderness skills for regions of the Indian Sea (South Africa, Australia, New Zealand).
The word was coined in the late 19th century literally to describe the life skills of African bushmen. It's never had anything to do with woodcraft.
In fact, the person who imported the word to North America in the early 1970's was careful to point out the differences between the two in his book (Richard Graves).
Woodcraft has always meant the wilderness skills of the mountainous woodland forests (not the bush which is mostly brush, flat and arid) which include hunting, canoeing, camping, mountaineering, trapping, etc.,,, going back to the early 13th century in England.
I respect your point of the video and somewhat agree ..but I was on a kayak camping trip once where water levels were 8ft above normal and it poured 7 days non stop.
There may have been dry things if you looked long enough, but I battoned instead and it saved sooo much time so that I could make feather sticks and get food going.
Time and place perhaps? I may also lack the knowledge necessary to be proficient in hasty tinder retrieval. 😅
There may have been nothing and batoning was the only way - or you may have simply needed to search a little more. I never said it doesn't work :)
What wood did you baton?
Did you have a saw?
What equipment did you have when you started the fire?
Where was the equipment?
Just a little tip when using a ferro rod. Try keeping your knife stationary and pull the rod back. It give you a greater concentration of sparks and it will cause less disruption of your tinder pile. As for batoning? You're correct, it's generally not needed but I often do it anyway.😉
I started using a high quality meat cleaver for my shovel,wood processing,hot coal shovel and hatchet. I removed the polymer handle covering and bought 3 bolts and wingnuts so I can just create a handle outdoors if I really need one. It's sharp,light, easily fits in my pack because it's thin and honestly,Its the most useful thing I've done. I do live somewhere where it rains alot and I have to split my larger branches so they burn better. I do carry a small folding saw but I do leave alot of large wood whole about 2 meters long and just let the end burn on 3 of them. After a few years of this,it seems to work well🤷
Totally agree, I live in the NWest of England and it rains non-stop but the same principles apply here . As you say understand your different woods.👍🏻
Well said!
Thank you for putting out a real world video. I am a knife junky. Have been since I was 2 years old. I love big heavy batoning knives. And all the others. I can speak from personal experience that when it comes to surving in the bush and need fire you actually don;t even need a knife. Many years ago I went hunting for the very first time. I woke up at around 1 am in my leanto well in to hypothermia. Not making any rational decisions. Then I had a brief moment and pulled my sh$t together. I did exactly what he sa dto do. It ha dbeen raining for 4 days. No chopping no nothing. Just knowing where to gather the right materials based on what is going on at the time. Bushcraft and survival is not about what gear you have instead it's about how you deconstruct the situation that is in front of you at the time. Cool knive s are really cool. But they're not what's going to carry you through in a real world situation. Your knowledge is.
All due respect!! It’s not the same in most every scenario. I was in multiple places where this situation was not available. In a city area as a homeless man in the winter. You have to find wood literally and drag it back to an area where you will not be scene starting a fire. I also was in the woods one time and noticed that the roots of a tree caught fire. Yes!!! A fire can go underground from a surface fire in the snow. Sometimes after being in one spot for a month of burning a fire all day. You find yourself walking further and further to get resources. Processing wood for wood stoves is a chore but; you have less soot. Great video.
I was thinking about that. North American tribes didn’t go around battoning wood and neither did the tribes in Africa. When we were kids, we made fires without chopping or sawing wood. We just put larger limbs in the fire we made out of small stuff and as the larger pieces burned, we just pushy them into the fire. All that sawing and chopping takes energy.
Excellent video! I've never needed to split wood to get dry tinder and kindling. It is easy to see that you are a true woodsman and are comfortable in that environment.
Thank you very much!
Agreed. You don't need to baton and make feather sticks to start a fire. Knowing your woodlands and a bit of scavenging is all you really need; especially if you have an abundance of punky old deadwood nearby and softwoods to work with. However for a long standing fire where you want real heat versus just flame, hardwood is the best; but not as easy to harvest in a handy format without a bit of good old bashing on the old knife blade. Here in eastern Ontario. we have plenty of birch, old dead spruce, pine so I hardly ever have to baton and make feather sticks to get a flame going. Processing wood is a pain in the rear end, and the only time I put in that kind of energy is if I'm base camping for multiple days.
Always remember though, when harvesting birch bark, only pull the curlies and never cut into the bark and peel a large sheet off. You harm the tree that way. Nature and the trees will always offer up what you need in most circumstances.
Along the same line as battoning is sawing wood down to 18 inch lengths etc. It expands massive amounts of energy. When we used to camp we'd find dead standing, cut or saw it off at ground level and then chop or saw it in small enough lengths that you could drag back to camp. We'd then rather feed the ends onto the fire as they burned, or burn larger logs in two, and work them down that way.
exactly
Like you said, important to know your woods. In the south east hummidity plays a much bigger role. In the north where the air is typically dryer, as soon as you warm damp kindling it dries and ignites. I used to winter camp all over upper peninsula Michigan and built fires daily almost exactly the way you showed. However the wetter the air is, the harder it is to get anything to burn. I learned this once I moved to the south east. The techniques you showed would only work on certain ideal days in Georgia and Florida, for instance.
Same here in Louisiana. I consider myself a master at fire lays and can tell you that even after raining several days before, it can be darn difficult to get a sustainable fire. However, with some light batoning I can get one going in a heartbeat. True, there are ways to get to dry wood by leveraging partly cut through limbs between two trees and breaking the limb...causing it to split. But why....so you can say you did it without batoning. I can get a friction fire going pretty quick too, without a Bic or striker of any kind...but why would I except in dire survival situations.
Ray Mears showed batoning once and the internet experts went over the top with it. But it’s not the only thing Ray Mears has said that have been taken completely out of context.
Mors Kochanski used to propose a test of hammering your knife into a tree and standing on it, to test it for strength. Again people take this way out of context. One of the first online Bushcraft videos was a guy hammering a Jarvenpaa stick tang puuko into a tree and bouncing his weight on it. The knife survived but was in a bad condition. Those Jarvenpaa Puukos can be bought in 3”, 4”, and 5” versions and are fantastic knives. More Kochanski was more than happy with the Mora 540 series knives.
When people baton they do it on logs that have been sawn. If you can carry a saw you can carry an axe.
1. Axe
2. Pocket pouch (pen knife, ferro, Bic etc.)
3. Bush pot
Buy a mora and with the money you’ve saved buy a good axe.
Love Mors. Read his book. If you watch his "Knives I've Used Throughout my Life" there are very few that would stand up to the standing on the knife test. I think part of the confusion was that his idea of a survival knife had to be strong enough to cut and pry your way out of a crashed airplane. Take away that contingency - and the knife does not need to be as tough. He mentions the Germ bokker knife (a folding knife) as the knife he used for most of his career as a survival instructor. This tells me that anything beyond light batoning was not part of the training.
You sir are much smarter than 99% of todays "survivalists"! Greetings from southern B.C., I subscribed and gave you a thumbs up.
Thanks man
I feel like a lot of bushcrafters like to show off with big unnecessary fires, sawing down big trees. However, my experiences are similar to yours in that there's almost always dead branches of moderate size available that can be easily broken up by hand. You only need a small stick fire to cook any kind of meal, and getting warmth from fire is more of a matter of proximity than size. People love showing off knives and axes and saws, but they're heavy to carry long distances. If you have a site on a trail you camp in often, it's nice to be light on the local resources making small fires with dead wood that don't make much impact on the forest.
I am originally from South Africa, home of scouting, never heard of batonning, till started watching YT vids. One had a pen knife, if car camping, then a hatchet. If dry tinder is such a big issue carry, a few wax cotton balls. No big knife needed. Knives have a harder Rockwell than axe or machete for a reason, it is a cutting tool.
I never heard of batoning until youtube bishcraft vids and I was raised in the woods in Tennessee and Southwest Virginia
Thanks for the cool advice. I'm from Nova Scotia also but live out west now. I can't wait to get back out into the woods and trails. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I've been wild camping in all seasons in Ontario and Alberta for 45 years. I haven't had to baton wood for a fire in all that time . I have used it for wood crafting though .
I’m with you 100 %. Way too many guys want to “big deal” every move they make, give you the reason why, you start rubbing your ears because they’re starting to get tired and they stopped listening. I love your style Mr. OTC, those greenhorns could learn a lot from you, but they’re too busy being “smarter”. Love your videos and thanks.
Spot on. Great video, the basic premise of it. Most of these UA-cam videos seem to appeal to "buy cool stuff" which has been implanted in our heads.
Do one on how to start a big overnight fire without an ax or saw. Just smack reasonably big dry branches against the closest rock and they bust up so nice. With those ragged ends that help them catch fire nicely. Big ol' heap of that can be collected fast. And how about cutting bigger logs with.....the fire!
Hoping to do that this weekend if the weather cooperates. (can do in rain but filming is a challenge in rain).
@@outdoorsonthecheapIf you can do that in the rain, that would be ultimate. How about rig a quick garbage bag shield for the camera?
Somebody here in the UA-cam mix doggy poop bags are always in his kit perhaps that's a good on-the-cheap resource?
Great Video Sir. Batoning In the Woods is Huge Over Rated. You don't even need An Ax or Hatchet. I get By with a Sturdy Knife and Folding Saw. Once my fire is Established I'll drag up standing or leaning Dead Saplings and lay the Whole thing on the Fire . There is a Hundred and one other things I'd rather be doing in camp than Batoning Sticks and Chopping 2 foot sections of Firewood.
Again, Great Video. It shouldn't be Tiring work to boil Water 👍
I've watched your other videos, I think I'll Subscribe
Thanks
Yeah, I've found it much easier to let the fire cut down the large branches. Its a huge amount of energy to cut logs for firewood with a hatchet or small camp saw.
@@redrustyhill2 Having camped in moderately open "Coombes" in the West Country in the UK, there are times when it isn't easy to make a fire right away from the trees without being right in the nearby stream. The trees aren't exactly tight packed, but there is never more than a few feet between them, except for small open areas near bends in the frequent streams.
In that context, we tried to keep the fires small and contained. Shorter logs were certainly more manageable than leaving the fire to cut down long branches. Although the weather was damp on both of the main occasions I camped there, the year before had been one of the driest on record and we were very cautious. Even then, we did have one meal where the fire was shooting up almost into the tree tops. As mentioned elsewhere, I was able to use a Kukri to chop through branches and small tree trunks (dead and fallen) quicker than I could have sawn them. Didn't do any batoning, though. Just used small branches and twigs as kindling with some paper firelighters (not ideal, but they can ignite a coal fire if made and used properly!)
Bush/forest/hunting beliefs go in trends. My dad never used anything bigger than a folding knife in the days before locking blades (1930s), my grandfather used an about 4-5” fixed blade. Till I joined the military I was happy with my folding “trapper” style knife. Military issued me a massive knife and I got used to it so still use the same knife. But we didn’t use it to chop or baton that’s not what we used the large blade for. It was people like Mors Kochanski than Ray Mears that started the baton and the love of the Scandinavian style knife. My adult child uses a larger locking folding knife for everything. When I was gone my dad kept on teaching him the use of a small knife. I am the odd one out now.
You are correct. My first camping trip was with the Boy Scouts in the late 50s, and over the years I collected books on survival and camped with friends well into my adult life and I never heard of batoning until UA-cam started showing it. I never needed to baton to make campfires. I think people enjoy batoning like whittling on a stick which is fine for them but when I’m camping I do not want to spend the time beating my knife on a piece of wood to get pieces as small as the ones I can easily find just walking around the woods.
Len McDougall, in the "Edgemaster's Handbook" claims he "invented" batoning solely to show the quality of a knife he had been asked to test. The test showed that the knife was still sharp after being "abused" by the batoning. He says he never intended batoning to be seen as an essential fire-making skill. I don't know much about Mr Kochanski, but I have never seen Ray Mears baton anything on any of his tv programmes. I do own a very old Kukri/Khukuri which is certainly older than me, which shows evidence of hammering on the spine (a few random marks, not marks from the manufacture of the blade) where the blade has been used to split or break something. BTW - Kukri can vary in size, design and purpose and a Nepali or Gurkha might carry one as both knife and hand axe quite apart from any use as a weapon.
I've traveled and camped extensively in every environment in the US except the deep south, and I can concur. There is no need to baton firewood in any wild forest anywhere, under any weather conditions. 👍👍
The one stick fire is great for training or teaching and is a cool trick. The reality is what you did, walk around, not gathering from one spot, There is fire starting materials, smalls, mediums, and bigs all round. I have collected everything I need for a fire from one branch that had fallen.That doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Good video. Happy trails
Thanks man
"It rained all day yesterday..." Nice. I'm from Southeast Alaska... I never rains all day yesterday. It rains all month last month and it's still raining now and it'll be raining next month. Even in this environment, you can get a fire going without batoning. That being said, though, in this country being able to split wood makes having a fire much much easier. We simply don't have the luxury of being able to easily gather a large amount of kindling, tinder, and large wood that isn't soaked nearly to the core.
Finally someone made a video on how to really make a fire. No need for extra crap to carry like cotton balls soaked in whatever. Especially no need to baton wood. Thank you for making this video so people can learn to properly make a fire. You should make a video on what to have in your backpack when venturing into the woods. The things one truly needs not what if.
Great idea man will do
@MrKingsley I totally agree with you on that. I keep waterproof matches that burn for like seven minutes for just such an emergency because you never know. Sorry I did not clarify better. I meant for my main way to start a fire. I hope I did not offend you or anyone else. I'll try to be more concise in the future. Keep doing what you enjoy.
Good that you pointed out the important fact. Even the military survival manual emphasizes the will to live and then knowledge over tools.
In many circumstances I agree that batoning is not needed, however, If everything is wet.. batoning is a blessing! Also if you are in a pure deciduous forest, you won't have those crispy dead branches from the coniferous trees to use as tinder or kindling.
So stone age people were unable to start fires in those forests?
@@outdoorsonthecheap It's a bald assumption of yours to think they couldnt split wood.
The point is that they didn't need a knife to do it. Not a bald assumption - they did not have steel knives@@jkvoot
@@outdoorsonthecheap It was never a question about them having steel tools, of course they didn't. It's a matter of them splitting the wood to get dry material from the inside. Splitting wood can be done without steel tools simply by hammering sharpened wooden or antler wedges into the log. It is more time consuming, but by all means possible. It has indeed been found evidence of this type of splitting wood all the way back to the Mesolithic era.
In my 58 years of comping there are still 2 things I have yet to do. Baton wood for a fire and run to the store to buy fat wood. Todays "experts" crack me up sometimes.
Yes, the fatwood craze is also funny I agree
I think the point here is that it's important to know how to survive with MINIMAL gear. There's lots of techniques, but WE must understand the basics. You can break branches with your feet, break larger sticks between two closely standing trees etc. WE need to understand tree identification and their properties. We need to know which rocks can be used to make tools. We need to understand the various fire making techniques etc., etc. Once we understand the basics, then using a knife just makes things easier.
The inexperienced will rely on technology for survival. The late Mors Kochanski stated that the more you know, the less you carry. Keep in mind that man survived long before steel was invented.
That's how I've always started camp fires as well, the romance of feather sticks and splitting wood with your knife might be needed sometimes, if you have to split wood to find something dry.
As a boy, I discovered feathering by accident, just by trying to sharpen some fairly poor wood into a point for some "toy" or other. The hardest wood came off in smaller pieces, but with the poorer wood (and poor technique) the knife would bite in and produce those curls. None of this wood had been split, as that would have defeated the purpose. So, if I had to produce feather sticks I could probably still do it without needing to baton anything. The only time I have split wood has been to produce kindling or to make very large logs smaller - both for a domestic fire.
A bic lighter uses a ferro rod for ignition. The "flint" is ferrocerium. lol Great video. Thanks for taking the time to make it. There's lots of videos of people stomping through the woods, looking neither right or left, trying to tell me how to survive, but you are showing the way I learned.
I usually build a pit fire, or build up sides and back for wind protection more. Gives me more control of the draft even on a quiet day.
I make small fires, so the small dead stuff toward the bottom of the trees is a good size. And collecting fire making materials while I'm hiking works well. An extra bag tucked under or tied to my belt (dump bag) works well for carrying what I collect. A musette works too.
I have a couple of clipper wheels and about 100 flints in the carry, small but invaluable. 🤘
I was trained by a man who was born in 1885. Where I camp is a hardwood forest. What you did I can do also, but not when it has been raining for a week and still is, I need
a fire and there are no evergreens, birch or heavy resin trees. Then, some of those other skills like batoning and feathersticks can be helpful.
It's funny - not matter how much rain I get - and how many times I light a fire despite the rain, there's always someone who says that if there was a little more rain it would be impossible. Make one wonder how stone-age people ever survived.
@outdoorsonthecheap not so. If you read carefully, I said, " ...helpful."
Good job! Thanks for sharing.
I get what you mean but I thought the same some time ago but traveled to different locations and forests I’d say splitting down wood with a knife to get a fire going is absolutely legitimate. The context is always what’s dictating the rules
I should subscribe, this was a great video to watch while im drinking my own tea 👍 And the number of scientists and archeologists that commented on it gives me hope that all of your content is as good! 😉👌
Thanks man
Greetings from British Columbia! This is a straightforward no nonsense video. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of developing a knowledge base of woodland ecology, tree identification and tree sourced materials relevant to fire lighting. I am not saying an outdoorsman might not find himself in an environment where 'batoning' is not a helpful method, but I have never had to baton. I come originally from the UK and understand some variables that might be found in a woodland scenario., but the more knowledge that an individual has of the specific woodland ecology the better, and the less thay may need to resort to the practice of batoning. Thanks again for sharing your experience and skills in the Eastern provinces of Canada.
Thanks WS - all great points!
Yes, you can build a fire out of small branches and bark, but you don't always find enough larger dead wood to build a good overnight fire and it does appear that you cut that branch you used to hold your bottle off with a knife or a saw. Depends on what for trees are in the woods you're in.
I have to agree!
I've been building camp fires my whole life. (I am now 68)--and only discovered the concept of batoning and feather sticks on UA-cam two years ago!
And axes are really cool--but unnecessary.
Even a saw is not necessary for a cooking fire--but is very nice to have for a bigger heating fire.
I teach kids to use a humble pencil sharpener to access the dry wood inside of twigs. I wanted them to edc something that they could bring to school. I'm guilty of big expensive blades, but I can't bring them everywhere.
AMEN! I completely agree.
I was a cub and a Boy Scout in elementary school and camped out from then on through college before the internet and never heard of batoning until UA-cam. I never had to baton or make feather sticks to start a fire. Where I live there are many trees and you can easily find dead wood as small as a toothpick and larger than a baseball bat. If I couldn’t break it with my hands I put it up against a tree and broke it with my foot, or put it between two trees and levered it to break. If I was wet I could scrape the wet bark and surface with my knife and the dry wood underneath would burn. When the fire got hot enough it would dry the surface of wet wood and burn well. I understand batoning is something people enjoy and that if fine if they like to do it, but it is not necessary to make a campfire and it slows down the fire making process. .
You got it man
Thanks for sharing 😊
Every forest is different. You're not going to obtain large dry wood without cutting and splitting in many forests. Go to a forest that has only conifers. Better yet, go to the high desert. There's no large dyr wood because there's no large trees. I prefer machetes. They do a good job anywhere and they're cheaper than knives. A machete is definitely not a waste of money. And keep in mind, it's not just about fire. There's shelter and tool making, food preparation and self defense. Batoning skills are important but are not everything.
This is one of the best fire making videos on UA-cam!
Wow, thanks!
Thank you for sharing.
I like how you explain the gathering method and how to start a fire in a wet forest I've been doing bushcraft survival for 42 years and when I go into my forest the first thing I do is start gathering tender as I'm hiking birtch bark pinecones fatwood and I never go in the woods without my tender bag .ps I like your bottle holder will try my next time out .
Thanks man
Glad you find tender and have your tender bag and enough birtch bark
Man this is so true but the algorithm won't allow it, people need to make their ad revenue and sell their giant knives 😂 but there's one forest where you will never pull this off - the northern rainforest in the late winter. I also live in NS, hey buddy! But I've also lived in an off grid RV near Powell River. Not to mention the most rain in Canada, the trees are hundreds of feet tall there, the twigs are a hundred feet off the ground so you bet you have to fell, split and baton down big logs to get your fire going (and there's no birch so you really have to baton a lot). But that's not even the worst part - the worst thing is the air humidity. Most people don't realize they're not only burning wood, they're burning the air too, so wet air makes it so much harder. The sun comes out after the rain and man you can feel the air on your tongue it's so wet.
The first time i heard of batoning was in a outdoor magazine where the writer interviewed a survival skills instructor some thing else id not heard much of back then it was provably late eighties i think up to that point i never heard of it and have been in a outdoor family with generations of experience ,to whete some kept theyre self augmented a great deal from what the woods and waters provided ,in the early seve M ties i liked a good sized butcher knife for a lot of what they call bushcrafty stuff ,if you learn to hold them you can do some fine carving ,and pf course it makes boning out large biggame a lot easier for me than just a regular sheath knife alone , all in all i think youve got it and one of the best down to earth channels out there imo !
Thanks man
I can understand your reasoning for this video and get your point. However....😊
Don't forget you're in a pinewood forest, where there are things such as fatwood. I have been to a beech woodland where there weren't even silver birch trees.
Fatwood is not easy to find - it's not something you just stumble across. Dry Beech leaves, by contrast, are easy to find, and make an excellent tinder.
@@outdoorsonthecheap
Thank you for your response
@@outdoorsonthecheapHow are dry leaves easy to find when its been raining a week straight?
Also, why do some guys get so upset over battoning?
Most things I do in the "bushcraft" category is because I enjoy doing it...these things I dont consider a burden...
Hi, your film is very interesting. The other day, I was reading Len McDougall's "Edgemaster's Handbook" where he claims that batoning didn't exist before the late 1990s and he also goes on to claim that he "invented" it as a means of demonstrating the strength of a knife he was testing and not as a bushcraft technique. Certainly, I never encountered it in the 1960s, when I was a Wolf Cub/Cub Scout in the UK. Campfires were made with tinder and kindling and small logs, but I never saw anyone split a log and definitely never using a knife to baton one.
On the other hand, I have split logs for a fire at home, esp. when there was no real tinder or kindling. I had to make my own kindling by making the logs narrower. Often, I split the logs with a hand axe and when it got jammed, slammed the other end of the log into the ground (or another log) until the entire log fell apart. On some occasions I only had a large Khukuri/Kukri and if that got stuck, it was just as easy to hit the blade as it was to try and work it free. So, batoning seems like a technique that would evolve independently, depending upon circumstance.
I also used to own a very old Kukri that had marks on the spine that indicated that it must have been used to split something which was tough enough to require hammering through the item. Of course, the marks don't prove that it was wood that was being batoned; it might have been anything. A friend suggested that it could have been bricks - but they are usually brittle and wouldn't require any hammering on the blade at all, indeed, the spine could easily have been used as a hammer in its own right.
As a general point, woodlore and knowing your own area makes perfect sense, but many survival situations assume that the person is lost at some distance away from home; in which case, purely local knowledge would have limited value, although acquired skills would obviously be transferable.
Interesting point you made here.
I make weekly videos of cooking / camping in the bush, all year round. I almost never baton, or split wood with a tool. If it's really pouring, I'll search for dry tinder (there is always dryish tinder to be found!) Or won't make a fire at all. I needed to baton once or twice this year though.
Yes - the more time you spend in the woods the less of a necessity you realize it is.
@outdoorsonthecheap I agree. And instead of batonning, I could have split open the wood with my bare hands. Or, by prying it between trees.
That was a fun little outing to follow along on. Bet most of that snow is not white today!
71 years old and a woodsman all my life and never had to baton wood, the woodsman in my day would kick your butt if you used there knife to baton wood.
You are now my favourite channel. Love your outlook. Subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
Agree!!! Only time batoning should be or needs to be is if its pouring and everything is saturated! Then break into wood, but,,,, i also believe if your going to practice batoning for fire making it should also be done in the rain , if not most time like your doing is all you need!!!!!’
Most 95% of fires I make are from picking up small/thin dry stuff.
I love my tools but really we’re just all wanting to look like survivalists rather than using our heads.
I absolutely loved this!!! I was like DAMN! Stop giving out my secrets!! 😂😂. New subscriber here my dear fellow fire whisperer!
Thanks!
Hi from Newfoundland Canada great video
Thanks man
Salut! Merci pour cette vidéo très intéressante sur l'allumage d'un feu de camp. Je voulais juste dire que j'ai trouvé fascinant de voir que la technique que vous utilisez est très similaire à celle que j'ai utilisée toute ma vie, sans jamais avoir recours à un couteau pour le batonnage. C'est vraiment génial de voir différentes approches pour parvenir au même résultat. Merci encore pour le partage de vos connaissances!
Merci. Oui, c’est tout ce que les gens ont appris de leurs parents et de leurs aînés il y a des années. Maintenant, ils l'apprennent auprès des vendeurs sur UA-cam, donc tout le monde est obsédé par la matraque.
@@outdoorsonthecheap C'est une observation intéressante! Comme le souligne Jean Baudrillard dans son livre "Simulacres et Simulation", les pratiques et les connaissances qui étaient autrefois transmises de génération en génération sont maintenant souvent véhiculées par les médias et les plateformes en ligne, comme UA-cam. Cela crée une nouvelle forme d'imitation et d'obsession où la matraque de l'information semble prévaloir sur l'expérience directe et l'apprentissage traditionnel.
Je crois que c’est la 1ère référence à Baudrillard sur ma chaîne !
Great insights
My knife doesn’t identify as a hatchet 🪓 😂
Good one :)
Damn! Wish I had thought of that! 😄
👍 Very good video with sound real world advice. Thank you for sharing.
My pleasure!
I understand your perspective. In all honesty, I would prefer to be in a survival situation equipped with an axe and a sturdy knife.
Good day. A fine video, no frantic batoning or feathersticking, no worries about will my knife hold up or will it go home in two pieces, just a gentle wander picking dry debris to make a small tea time fire. Thanks for sharing.
Grwat video. I grew up in Ireland where as kids wed go out into the forest, light a fire and hang out
We never had to "baton" wood, as an adult I'm always amused at seeing these "experts" batoning and making feather sticks
Its not that hard lol
I think batoning is only in an emergency where you absolutely needed a way of splitting wood and only carry one tool which you shouldn't.
for whatever reason you needed to in and emergency that would be otherwise you should be (carrying a hatchet) with a knife, hatchet to split wood because that's what it was intended for. Yes some knifes can thats great but its alot more work then just a simple hatchet. great video!
thanks for the info
No problem!
Taking dead dry trees and lookinh for a cluster or twin trees you can easily break them into firewood size then burn them in half even a small wood saw from a Swiss Army Knife cuts lots of fat wood spruce starts fires well pine cones small sticks !
Great video! However...hardwood forests in spring and fall can be a pain to find some dry tinder, especially if its been raining for a couple days. Thats why I carry a hatchet/axe, save your knife.
The Saw on most Victornox Knives works very well.
Yes, I agree with your point and other people’s comments, but, I like batoning and find it a fun activity. Just saying.
You are an expert firelighter :)
Totally agree great vid!
Love your videos! Keep up with the good work!I'd love to see a video showing us how to make those knives sheath you make!
Thanks! Will do!
I'm 65 and built Hundreds of camp fire's with no knife or Hatcet .
I've been saying this for years but batoning is a simple task that people can do and they think it makes them a big bad "outdoors" expert. I'm 69 and I don't ever think I've batoned anything other than with an axe or froe, and that was just making implements or utensils of some kind. Batoning is what those who don't know do.
Good job bro ♥️
Wonderful. Despite the negative comments I agree with what you’re saying look around and you will find useful materials. For most part I never even use my knife and even when I do I always find my little mora 511 to be more than enough. It’s light sharp and as long as you do not abuse it it’s very strong. It’s my favourite of all my knives. If it just a brew a few twigs is all you really need. Great and simple 🙏🏴😀
I previously commented how much I like this video. A few more observations on the "necessity" of batoning. Think you touched on this one, how would ancient people have batonned with stone and obsidian knives? They clearly first mastered fire which enabled the production of metals...they did not first master metals so they could baton wood to produce fire. And if wood were as difficult to set ablaze as many "experts" on YT say, how would forest fires be such a common occurrence? Surely, perfect conditions as dictated by the bushcraft masters do not often randomly occur in nature. Thanks again...👍
I have another video being edited that makes a similar argument - and it's a great point - if it's so important - how did stone age people get by :)
Not much birch bark in the Southern piney woods. We do have fat wood, but that works much better if you split it.
Agreed. My first camping trip last year I tried using a camping axe. Nope. Not doing that. Too much work. Plus I don't want too baton anything. Then a few camping trips later remembered doing a upside down fire. Using similar materials like you.
The Canadian survival belt knife is small. My first road/camping trip back in the early '80s started in Canada, through the USA and down to the bottom of Mexico and back. I never heard of batoning, feather sticks or ferro rods. One place I went to in the USA was called the Rainbow Gathering. About 2,000 or more people gather in a national forest to have a massive camp out. Everybody in the area did different chores and my chore was wood gathering in the forest. Everything was on the ground that we needed nothing to split. I learned quite a lot about camping from that experience but the biggest thing that I learned was to check the clothing attire in a camping spot before you plan on going there because when I got there I found out it was a nudist colony. Oh yeah, Oh Canada, eh.
Over 50 years ago my father taught us to build fires in a wet forest. Never saw him baton a piece of wood.
Another great video! Out of curiosity, are there any uses for a larger knife outside of batoning that are actually useful in the woods?
They are useful for doing axe-like things; but of course, less good at those things compared to an axe. And of course there's the people that think they need a weapon at all times, so I guess a big knife makes a better weapon. Check out this video where Italk about that : ua-cam.com/video/cPXBBdl9N5Y/v-deo.html
To be real, I don't *have* to go into the woods at all. (Few humans do these days) I do it for enjoyment. I also *love* knives. Always have. For me, a "big knife" is far from a waste. I collect, use, and make knives. They bring me joy. Using them for things like battoning is fun.
...And very useful, regardless of what naysayers think. One more skill to know, one more option to have handy.
The batoning/feathersticking thing is one of the downsides of YT. (Along with telling people they need stupidly expensive kit)People think its some sort of skill yardstick because it's been done so many times. Usually you'd just work out for yourself what works in your environment and common sense says find the dryer stuff or stuff that burns regardless if it's a little damp.
Totally agree with your ideas and statements. I wonder how the human race survived and prospered before we had the YT bushcraft experts pointing out everything we need to do, or not do when enjoying a day (or a few days) in the wild.
What kind of cup are you using that nests with the small water bottle?
I just saw it in a dollar store one day - bought three of them
I just dont get it with all these modern bushcrafters, batoning is mandatory for every fire they make.......The only time Ive used batoning is when its soaking wet and it has rained for couple of days and you need something dry to get the fire started.
Yes, but that's the point. That is exactly the reason they suggest having a decent survival/long knife that - so that if things are saturated you can split open wood.
Splitting wood is as old as the hills. Having a decent knife to baton wood is definitely a piece of security.
@@ColinNew-pf5ixthats why you have a small hatchet or axe ;)
@@bittidude
Yes, but the point being .... CHOICE. Some people may choose not to carry a hatchet or axe for a survival day pack, on a day hike for example.
I can't see what the big deal is. To some people it's just a preference and favourable method to get a fire going. Having a decent size knife with say a 7" blade is going to make life easier when things are saturated in a hardwood forest. Not all forests have birch trees and pine resin.
It's just a piece of mind, preference and choice. No big deal. Nobody is suggesting one cannot get a fire started without a survival knife; just favourable.
But thanks for your comment all the same.
I cant argue with anything you've said here, nice solid basics around a less destructive way to use the materials around you.
Gotta say though it has been hacking down with rain for four days here in the UK, our speciality, sometimes a wee bit of batoning (in the absence of an axe) is needed to literally dig out that dry core material. Nice vid though bro, keep it up.
so how did stone-age Britons get their fires going?
Funny as kids in the UK we could get fires going no problem, never needed to "baton" wood. Never even heard of it till very recently online
@@outdoorsonthecheap They likely rubbed dry sticks together to create a friction fire and fed it with dry wood from their shelter.
Imagine batoning a perfectly cut to length piece of firewood 😂 here in the PNW it's easy to find dead standing or already fallen semi hardwood. Just push it over and break the pieces with a rock or other chuck of wood. It rains most of the year here and I've always been able to make a fire with just the trash from my rig and a lighter.
He’s right 3 1/2 to 4 inch blade is all this necessary no matter what but Anie would it’s not necessary like he says I have never needed to pecan wood in the bush😢
This gives me confidence, I am going to go camping in the mountains in the snow by myself for the first time soon.
Made a bunch of campfires, never needed to baton with a knife. Maybe I'm missing a vital point... or not.