Sonic Forces Null Space - Unused Section Analysis
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2017
- Null Space is a short section of a stage in Sonic Forces. But, was there more to it?
Thanks to codenamegamma for her cheat table (what made this video possible) and inspiring me to make this video! (She discovered the voice lines.)
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Null Space's concept art shows Infinite there, maybe it's possible that it was originally meant to be a boss fight stage? It does match up with all of the other Modern Sonic Infinite fights, where you run along an endless track and avoid the Phantom Ruby cubes
That seems really fitting actually, but I think it's safe to assume that boss fight was carried into another part of the game. (Specifically, the 3rd encounter with Infinite.)
Yeah, I figured that as well. The Metropolis boss fight is pretty much set up exactly the same as Null Space, with it just being a long and endless straight track, so they probably just moved it there for whatever reason
Super sonic boss?
Luria perhaps we can mod Sonic Forces into a storyline of what it should have been
Could it be possible that Infinite didn't die. He went to null space to restore his powers
_Honestly, what I think would've been cool is if they had a classic stage right before Sonic exits null space... Seeing as to me it would create a situation where everyone is now faced with the fact Sonic may be gone and all that's left is Classic to rely on to... Honestly, could've helped the story and make Classic Sonic less.... Forced? __-My bad for the pun.-_
_Also, how are the uh... Adventure Models going?_
I totally agree, as much as I love the game, I wish the story didn't rush by so fast, Classic Sonic didn't really belong but if they had made Classic Sonic out to be their last hope just like they did with the rookie, I think a lot of fans would be more forgiving.
Also, to be honest, the only reason they're not out yet is because I'm the master of procrastination, but I've got a long weekend, so I'll hopefully find time to release them.
_100% agreed. Literally, so many things that could've made this game alot better. I mean, as it is. It's nicely average but... Y'know I feel Sonic Games should try to aim above and beyond. I honestly believe a small delay would have helped this game greatly. But seeing as they wanted to stick with being before Mario's date cause they knew it was gonna knock everything out of the water if they don't be before him, Sonic Team opted to release earlier. Least that's what I can guess._
_Also, wow. Well uh, I'm glad to hear you have a long weekend so hopefully those can get out, I keep watching the trailer and I still love those models, not just because it's adventure dreamcast aesthetic, but also because the small things like how you went through the effort of putting the height for the characters and quotes. It's probably one of my favorite mods because of the A+ Quality and it hasn't even been released yet.. Keep up the good work. :)_
Indιgσ 'IѦא' that's actually the best way they could've done that! Nice thinking man!
Classic Sonic should've just been absent period
Guess that explains the line “Phew, I missed this place!”
oMnO/ Flameman16 Yeah. Who the hell would just be gone for 13 seconds and say this miss this area
Sarcasm probably
I knew there had to be more to Null Space. The background music being way longer than the amount of time were actually there was my first hint, but this is more.
I wish they had stuck with Null Space being a full stage. Imagine going through previous dual stages, but with the Null Space colors
To be honest, part of me thinks it would be strange of Null Space were a full stage, because Null means invalid, or nothing, so it would be strange if there was, well, something in Null Space right? But then again, we saw obstacles here, so who knows.
spoiler alert for anyone who didn't finish sonic mania
you know the non super sonic final boss where the eggman send us to different mini bosses (I think) that consept might work in null space , hell , i think that if they did it with stages where suddenly null space would look like some of the stages bofore it. this might work
Thats kind of what I imagined, a stage full of fragmented machinary, bits of earth from other stages, anywhere that Eggman would've test fired that weapon as your means of traversal back to the portal!
@@luria2498 Sorry to be reviving an old conversation, but I also had the same question... And then it hit me:
Sonic and OC were sucked into Null Space via a pseudo black hole. Why not make the gravitational force of the black hole a bit stronger, allowing it to attract objects, like platforms, rings and springs? It would've made sense, the only thing that had to change would be that Eggman and Tails would have to be farther away to avoid being pulled in.
Y'know, when Sonic says "We really shouldn't have ended up here, let's go back." It kinda sounds like he ended up in Rock Bottom and is waiting for the bus to come back. Cool video by the way.
The moment you step into this stage you can just FEEL that there was supposed to be more
Especially how when you get out, Knuckles talks to you and he sounds like you were gone for quite a bit.
"This isn't where me were meant to end up."
Quite literally, it appears.
You are very good at this Luria! 😃
Already five months. wowie! I’ve made a very special video right here ua-cam.com/video/TuOOICqk-9g/v-deo.html
Honestly I think they should have had a massive level in Null Space with hard jumps, it could have Sonic saying something like "For a place that's supposed to have nothing in it, there's a lot of stuff here" this part goes on for about a minute, then you fall down to the quick step section and finally finish the rest of the level, Sonic should have said when he reaches the double boost section "I think we can escape, let's team up partner!"
We need a mod which makes Nullspace a full stage!
Kazumi Ash I would love to see that
I feel as though they really SHOULD have kept Null Space longer- Or perhaps made it a 'trio' stage like the final boss.
Imagine switching back and forth between Null Space and the City, Classic Sonic rushing about trying to damage control as everyone panics, while Sonic and Rookie charge through Null Space's broken, twisted reality.
Imagine Null Space being ever so slightly manipulated by the Phantom Ruby in Rookie's possession, bringing out memories of home that form into bits of level.
Sonic Forces, at its core, is a good game that can easily make you smile. The thing is, the longer you play, the more frustrations you find. Weird level design choices, usually ones that send you flying into a death pit, plague the later levels, and there are enforced platforming segments which just aren't fun. As you do the extra content and grab the red rings you start to feel like it was almost deliberately made to be frustrating. Which is sad, because it has all the building blocks ready to make the next Colors or Generations. Smooth out the level pathing, expand upon the bosses' unique patterns and push them to 11, do away with the horrible segments like the water slide and the last stage of Episode Shadow... and, heck, give us a couple more unique throwback bosses, like some runins with Chaos or a proper fight with Shadow - the Phantom Ruby gives an excuse to have literally any kind of boss you can imagine. Forces could relatively easily be modified or patched into being a shining example of how Sonic games should be. Maybe someday some noble fans will do just that. I can only dream.
In the meantime, I'm personally keeping my avatar around as a roleplay character. I got really attached to her while doing the main campaign. Aside from Episode Shadow, the game's writing was pretty great.
Cinos the Dense potato The one that comes to mind is a point in the first Modern Sonic city level where you get a boost pickup just before a part where the pathway twists and turns in a way that boosting will send you flying off the edge.
Cinos the Dense potato There were others but I don't remember them right now. It's been a while since I played.
Okay. No.
The writing was not 'good'. You and I both know it wasn't. We started with Eggman's takeover being explained in a 1 sentence textbox. The fuck.
All I see is cap.
@@mattstat716 the execution was bad, not the writing at its core
...huh. Interesting. Kind of wish they just kept in the unused portion.
Why? Its Just a straight line
Psyplo yea buts better than just spamming x and letting the game play itself
It’s kinda amazing how adding just that quick step section makes it feel at least a bit real and not a rushed 20 second deal.
This is really cool. I always thought this should have been a full stage at the end of the game with a boss fight against Infinite. The effect of cubes appearing in front of them is really brilliant.
I swear, if someone just hacked this game making custom levels and whatnot, it could be so much better.
Some Kind of Democrat Level mods that worked in generations can literally be ported straight over, this means more than you think because it means modders have experience creating levels in the same format so we should see real interesting stuff...
Huh, both this and mania had null space areas that were originally levels (egg reverie)...
I can't wait for the inevitable "extended" edition of this game from modders, with longer levels, actual boss fights with Chaos, Shadow, and Metal Sonic, and of course a real Null Space level.
What would have made null space real cool is this
It does that sidestepping part first
Then it does the dash panel part
Then it does double boost
It would have made null space at least 10 seconds longer
I'm pretty sure the dash pad is what happens off screen during the stage intro, or once was: to give the effect that you and Sonic come flying in.
The real question is... *Why was this cut from the final game?* Personally, I would've loved that the Null Space section was a bit longer.
they only had 1 year to develop this game, the other 3 were spent working on the Avatar and concepts and the new Graphics Engine
@@TokyoDrift4564 years of developing and 3 of those years were wasted on the graphics engine and the concept art?
@@TokyoDrift456they should delayed the game to 2018
Now the real question is.... Are you still able to hear that unused voice clip in other languages???
SuperSmashBrawler128 good question!....i have no idea
i think the japanese version has unused voice clips for these
What was the unused voice clip
@@_sliver the "Being sent me here taught me something" Line
The other language versions can be heard on TCRF: tcrf.net/Sonic_Forces_(Windows)#Null_Space
The music itself shows just how sad this stage is. What could have been a great idea ended up just being a straight line. Heck, even the arena for the Sonic vs Shadow 2nd fight from SA2 would have been an upgrade!
We need a stage mod that either A. Changes the stage so we have the quick step section, or B. make a brand new null space section
Null Space was the only thing that was interesting to me in this game and it only lasted 16 seconds. Shame
Alixx a deep metaphor for this game.
I always liked this sort of stuff... Remember how fun it was to find unused audio in the program files of Windows 95/98 games?
Dimitriy Dzyuba It's more fun doing it in successful games to see what you could find that lead to development and decisions to certain levels. Like Mario Odyessy or Sonic Mania
Well, this does explain a lot. I thought them breaking out immediately was such an ass pull.
I also would have liked a longer Nullspace stage, but this stage is still awesome.
Interesting Indeed
Honestly tho, what were ppl expecting from a stage called Null Space? I mean, Eggman did bluntly say that it's nothingness, so...? All what we're missing out on is a quickstep section, which is sad (no pun intended (cuz BGM sounds sad)), but even if it was here, i bet ppl would still be mad cuz "ITS JUST A FREGIN STRAIGHT LINE!"
Null Space would've been a great area. I actually like the concept.
Why would they cut a unused sonic line like that
What makes you think they cut it out? According to the developers they had plenty of time to make the whole game, four years or so. Was there some kinda development hell going on that led to things getting axed? Were there budget issues? Was it just pure laziness on the designers' part?
Look at the game closely enough, and its pretty obvious they cut an obscene amount of corners with Forces. Literally the exact opposite of the development process that made Sonic Mania.
It was basically just 1 year. The other 3 were for developing Hegehog Engine 2.
Quite sad.
Steve The Raptor. The Hedgehog Engine 2 isn't even as impressive as the first version either, so really the whole development cycle was a waste of time.
Yeah, the whole game was a waste of potential. Just like how it happened to RoL.
And surprisingly enough that wasn't a problem to the Mania team.
Can't get over the fact that a bunch of old school Sonic fans managed to make a better game than Sonic Team itself lol
Steve The Raptor. Well, those fans actually have passion and creativity, along with knowledge about what a sonic game should be.
Thanks for sharing this, after someone telling me there was unused dialogue for Null Space and the fact that there are 3 different OST tracks dedicated to it I figured that there must’ve been *at least* a *little* bit more planed for Null Space.
What was the point of removing it? That's weird
so, ah you gonna credit me? besides the fact i was the one who first discovered it, it seems to me like you also used my cheat table and my work to make the video. that's the one of the only things i ask when people use my cheat table for stuff is they at the very least link my channel and credit the work i put in making the tool. other then that it was a great video.
Ah, sorry for not thinking to credit you, that's honestly just arrogance and I apologize.
I'll link your channel in the description, hope that works for you.
Thank you for the cheat table by the way, I had a lot of fun messing around with it.
Thanks, appreciate it. have a new version coming out soon with wispons modifications and other neat stuff.
Sounds good, lookin' forward to it!
Luria You both deserve respect for handling this so maturely and respectfully. It's always nice to see a community working together.
Great work Luria! Who knows, maybe when/if SF stage editors appear someone out there can get those lines/gameplay segments re-integrated.
The problem with level editing for Sonic Generations is that nobody explained how the tools worked really, and / or they were always broken and needed to be fixed before use.
If we ever get proper level editing tools for Sonic Forces and they're actually usable, I'd be happy to do it myself. :P
Luria Same here! I'd love to try it at least :P
Man! Thank you. This is so interesting video!
Nice work seeking out the secrets of this stage
Well Done👍
Amazing work !
Woah, amazing analysis!
1:29 You will find Sonic's unused line. Thank you.
if they will have placed a complete version of that quickstep section plus the part we know today the stage could be more interesting
Sonic Forces you to finish Null Space
I am disappoint. Why you leave that out SEGA?
(Me when I first went into null space) OH YES A SPACE STAGE OMG IM SO EXCITED WHATS GONNA HAPPEN
(Double Boost) NOPE
(Me) REALLY I WAS THERE FOR FREAKIN 30 SECONDS!?
But I do really wish they made it a full stage
not even 30...like half of that time xD
Interesting. I’ve seen it before but I like how you explained it
the null space was probably created for a full level, so there's the dash panel, the ring, the skip sequence and the wisp. after a while 'go ahead you note precisely that the camera moves because it is precisely the spawn point. but my question is this ... why have they kept the ring sequence, the wisp and the dash panel if the game forces you to double-boost?
as short as this section is, I love the BGM!
It's So Strange The Unused Lines Can Be Trigger When You Break The Game
A prison that goes on forever. And by forever, I mean 16 seconds.
10 step method to incorporating null space slightly more while making their trapping less hollow
1. Have sonic & the OC run through null space to find there’s no escape
2. The side characters realise sonic is gone & Hope is lost once more
3. Credits roll/1st ending, (similar to the storybook games)
4. Side characters determine the chaos emeralds are the only hope to rescuing the pair
5. 7 side quest missions to locate the emeralds open up, alternating between tails, shadow, knuckles & silver (characters all returning sonic players are used to using)
6. Shadow & knuckles (the two with the most knowledge of the emeralds) use chaos control to bring the main characters back
7. Cut back to null space; after multiple failed attempts to escape, sonic is on the edge of giving up, the OC reaches out in a ‘never say die’ manner & sonic takes his hand, adding a speech about their friendship
8. A portal opens from the chaos emeralds, & the two double boost through it, continuing the level & game as it were until the final battle
9. It’s as you were all the way to the final battle, where both sonics and the OC go super to beat infinite & get the full ending
10. Profit
This glitch actually used the unused Sonic quote "A prison that goes on forever, huh? But at least it taught me something, nothing beats realizing that your not alone!" Is a great life lesson for some people with friends that will be there until the end!!
AHA!!!!!!! Sonic said, "We really shouldn't be here, let's go back!" That refers to the fact that there is something *back* there!! And now we know what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m gonna raise a point I haven’t seen before. There’s a camera shift and a dash panel that launches you into the Double Boost segment. Sonic’s dialogue also says “this isn’t where we were meant to end up.” I think that the original intention was that the Quick Step section would occur(maybe another section too), then Sonic and the Avatar would launch on the Dash Panel trying to escape. They seem to travel through a portal, but are only teleported to the depths of Null Space, hence the “ This isn’t where we were meant to end up”. Sonic then tries a Double Boost to escape, which successfully brings him out into Metropolis.
Edit: I also realised that during the entirety of Metropolis the second time through(all two stages of it) there is no boss, even though it’s the beginning of the game’s climax. I think that the other section before the teleport I mentioned was going to be some kind of boss fight(probably against Infinite). The boss would have ended with Infinite using the Phantom Ruby to teleport them further into Null Space when they try to leave. They escape Null Space afterwards by Double Boosting to take out Infinite and break the illusion, allowing them to get back to Metropolis. The reason Sonic is intent on tracking down Eggman in Metropolis is to pursue Infinite after escaping Null Space.
it would have been cool if it was left in.you know why? because the story spawns sonic on a point where he can already see the exit! god dammit,infinite.....
Awesome
I mean it’s reasonable since the stage is called null space showing it’s actually important
Wow,thanks.
Proof game is rushed
and someone have doubts on it?
They've stated several times that this had like 4 years of development. I mean they had to be doing something while Big Red Button was working on Sonic Boom.
@@gamesergeanthd are you believing what other fans say about that?
Geez, so THAT is how long they were REALLY in there. Why did they cut it out? That could’ve been awesome!
It was most likely an infinite boss fight. My theory I'd that they actually wanted to do a whole story point where Sonic actually goes close to the speed of sound and without the rookie in his way he's able to. He defeats Infinite going so fast that he grabs him and just rips the ruby out, taking it for himself. Only to then have a cutscence where he truly would go all out for split second, making the cutscence very short because it's modern Sonic, he done surpassed "the speed of sound" a long while ago.
This would of course, make the level a Sonic only level. Which would make sense given you can beat with just sonic anyway, with the custom hero elements feeling kinda forced and out of place. This also could maybe suggest given the insane collision the city has in this level outside of Null space. That we would of been able to take different routes to the end of the level where Eggman who would except Infinite to show up; would be waiting. Only to be met by Sonic, who took the ruby.
I'm guessing the tower level would have been one huge mission where Eggman uses his robot with the real Ruby and to distort reality using what I imagine are chaos drives from Shadow the Hedgehog 05.
Maybe they would of had to get the chaos emeralds after trying to fight Eggman together and failing because modern Sonic again has to hold back as to not get everyone else hurt, like always. And then Super Sonic which would explain the Super Sonic dlc only having a modern version initially until a update a little later. Almost as if it was already in the files and they just modified it so it couldn't fly.
Almost feels like Super Sonic bring the new way of all bosses in Frontiers and the future is the team's way of making up for all the stuff they got rushed into scrapping from forces.
But even Frontiers got robbed just a little with the whole big Kronos, with 3 versions getting scrubbed (the other 2 were on the pc version oddly). With the second and last versions having Tails around suggesting it's the version after Chaos and I theorize we would of had to endings. The one we got or we could listen to Tails who would tell Sonic to find the chaos emeralds and ignore the voice. Only for an extra tower to rise in the unused tutorial area section that we have to trick boost into normally and the pyramid to rise as well. I imagine this also ties into the Sonic forgetting things which would have been because he was ☠️ and was basically through will alone trying to keep his brain going in order to fight THE END and keep his body. This adds to the full corruption things as it would make more sense as to why he got stuck because he STOPPED THE END from taking his body away and erasing him. So it trapped him. However the emeralds would probably help and we'd have our 5th island be in his mind scape with Sonic himself trying reconnect a path to his body most likely Sadge would have helped earlier at the pyramid and would have helped Sonic get back to his body confronting deep issues he buries or doesn't talk about. Like Emerl, and the fact Chip literally gave him his life-force in order to revive him. "You must live." "I'll always be with you on the earth you tread." In JP said "apart of you" which spells it out.
Then this 5th island which I imagine is that quote on quote Cyberspace level that's missing all it's data is. Would have a boss against a purple-red Sonic which upon defeating Sonic would wake up and together with Sage we would run to FG Giganto arena, which would actually be Supremes arena meanwhile the others with Eggman try and fix the robot on Chaos island to help us with the fight that will happen in space.
So basically this stage would've been the same except like 5-10 seconds longer.
Is there some kind of trick to explore the unused section of the level so I don't get forced back to Metropolis? If you're wondering what version I'm talking about, I'm talking about the one I have, the Nintendo Switch version.
StarDog Smasher Without some sort of advanced home brew with the proper cheat table, I don't think it's possible right now.
Null Space = Subspace? Maybe that's how Sonic ended up in Brawl.
Wow you even got c.n.g to comment on this. Nice job!
How are the sonic adventure player models coming?
If only...
Unused Forces level = dash pad that skips over a dull quick-step section. God! Even this game's unused content is boring!
It’s a shame I only got a switch and got this so I can’t do the full stage if this rip so they basically skipped this whole stage but there’s dialogue there it’s like sega wants people to mod it or hack it to do the full stage
Huh. Doesn't seem like like much more than 20 extra seconds of Null Space, but it seems harmless at worst.
I feel like there could have been a better way for you to have gotten out, my way would probably be the prototype opens the portal out of there but you have to collect energy within the null space in order to do so. Sure it is also just another phantom ruby prototype solves thing but it heck of a lot better than this.
I wonder how null space would be with shadow in it. Kinda would give that vibe of his past with the background music too. But I would've liked the concept using modern sonic here as a full stage. Has a depressing tone
Shame really, if they kept that in, it would've been a fantastic addition, and would've made the level a decent bit longer. Which is something the game's levels sorely needed.
Interesting...
How i do this ?
holy shit
wow
There’s a prerelease screenshot showing Infinite in Null Space. There *had* to have been more to this stage. Why include it at all if it’s there for 10 seconds?
Is it possible to do this on the Switch?
a prison that goes on forever huh?
well, it's NULL space, i think that desicion make sense
los pequeños delfines tambien usan casco True, but then again, we see blocs everywhere in the distance. There's also a floor and red cube obstacles, it's just a matter of layout really. It's called Null Space, but there are still things in it. Kind of a debatable thing tbh.
fuckin' sega always does things like this
hmm, interesting...
When sonic dies in null space he goes dah XD
Null Space actually should’ve took place in another dimension or something, if it were then this game would had 8 locations instead of 7.
They would get alot more hate on sonic forces if it was a full stage
No way!!!!
How do u do this on the Switch?
I don't think it's possible, unless there's some really advanced homebrew that allows for this kind of data editing.
Null space DLC?
Please sega......no ok
What about a Seaside Hill DLC?
Caleb Montes
....
AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHGGGGG
NO! We are NOT going back to the beach! If we are visiting heroes, we are going to EGG FLEET, you HEAR ME SEGA
EGG
FLEET
...do I really need to put a disclaimer here? Okay, fine...
‘‘Twas in jest
Well they did bring up Seaside Hill in the game, so its possible were gonna get a DLC of it.
nah just lets take a super sonic dlc for 4 dollars
most likely not happening seems like Sega is done with Forces. after all this game was nothing more than a golorified test of their new engine disgusting how they sold their damn test. it introduced Infinite i guess which is something since he will most likely come back but still.
Too bad they didn't make it into a full stage.
I personally think Null Space is the best looking part of the game.
Such wasted potential for this stage.
Dup?
Hi
Is this original level or not
Kind of.
Honestly I lose on null space
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING
What you did was SO MUCH BETTER. :-D
Shame on you, Sega. SHAME ON YOU. >:-(
MysteriousGirl 92 um, you do know it's just a scrapped part right? This guy didn't make the part before the double boost.
+Ddraven Ayala I know. I just wish it was in the game. That part of the level lasted for 4 seconds.
uh
This not my meme?
Huh?
Luria double boost, the meme
What about it?
Null space was so anti climatic.
It really, really was. It should've been a really difficult platforming level requiring Sonic and the Avatar to work to eachothers' strengths; would've made their escape a LOT more impactful.
Why design that whole area, just to show it for about 15 seconds?
@@luria2498 I’m not even kidding I thought that it was going to be where the final boss was going to take place
@@torterratortellini6641 Same. Have you seen the concept art for the game? There's an image of Infinite floating in Null Space. They could've re-purposed the weird infinite-looking chaos-illusions from the Metropolitan City Avatar stage, and created this crazy tentacled-being for the final fight with Infinite, but instead we got a reused Metal Sonic fight
@@luria2498 I’m one of the few people who doesn’t hate sonic forces and even I’m disappointed by the infinite fight.
@@torterratortellini6641 I actually like Sonic Forces. It's clearly rushed and could have been executed much better, but I definitely don't hate it.
I let my younger sibling play it, and they loved it. I think it's important to remember that Sonic has a varied demographic, and the avatar highlights their focus on a younger audience for this title, even if the story was a bit more "mature".