Thanks mate. Yeah, I’m not looking to set any records - just get the job done safely and without damaging anything. “comfortable maximum” is my speed 👊
Man, every time you say that its been a family business and you went into it, doesn't happen as much over here. And that you're so excited, just makes me happy
I never saw the value in it as a young adult, but as I got older I realised how incredibly fortunate having a family business really is. I’m just deeply grateful to be part of it all. 60 years and still going strong. Thanks for the kind words my friend. Appreciate it
Your information is spot on, even for us guys with antique manual lathes. I've found that running under the limit a bit saves tooling and parts. Which equals money in the bank persay. Great video and great advice.
Thanks for the feedback mate! Appreciate it. Yeah, I find that keeping it to a comfortable maximum stops tool breakage and makes jobs quicker in the long run too.
We're same at producing one offs or repairs in our business (Hydraulic Reman) not trying set records or amazing speeds and feeds just safe reliable parts. I'm new to CNC LATHES and I'm trying to run machines as intended, where as in the past on manual equipment everything thing I did was by eye test and listening to your cut and adjust accordingly. My lathe also has a big heavy chuck and I tend not to always go by manufacturers recommended SFM and FPM, IPR. BUT DEFINITELY enjoy the challenge of making it all work. Thanks for your humility and honest content. I'm using a few of your techniques on the heavy side of machining also.
Thanks for sharing your experience - that's exactly what these videos are all about. I try to share what I’ve learned, and also find ways to get better from some of the wonderful people who give genuinely great suggestions in the comments.
Great content. One word of advice, any time you have a mag base indicator with an arm mounted to a chuck and you rotate from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock the setup will sag due to gravity so it will always find a false center. Better to use either a very short setup with very little weight or a good quality coax.
That’s excellent advice. I’m in the process of improving the setup with a more rigid indicator base. Someone else also suggested it. Really appreciate the comment brother. Very helpful
Yep, easy way to check this is to clamp the mag base to a parallel and point the needle on the parallel and then just turn it around and check the dial. Gives a good estimate of how much it shows incorrect with that indicator, base and arm.
@@halheavyduty What we use is an indicator with a round stem and pivot joint. The entire thing is less than 2" long and has little weight to it. Take a slug of aluminum and drill a hole in the face of it near the diameter of the drill you are dialing in on. Then drill and tap for a set screw perpendicular to it so you can lock the stem in place. Chuck on the aluminum piece and use that to dial in the drill. The only drawback in you have to use a mirror. Try to find a pivot joint that doesn't use the cheap ball and locking collar, they seem to be made from very soft steel. My service tech has a nice one with a pin in the joint and locking screw.
Well spotted Brian. I was wondering if someone would pick m that up! I usually wouldn’t do it like that to be completely honest. Just hard to record a video and run the machine at the same time. Usually I’d keep the rotation going and stop the feed. Thanks for commenting, and for tuning in 👊
We use these a lot in our cnc milling machines. They are great because you can drill on angled surfaces without having to mill a flat starting surface. They so make some noise though.
Dont they just! Noisy… but for us… essential. I’ve found running them slower than manufacturers guidelines tends to reduce noise. At least on 4140 steel. What material do you machine mostly?
👍 good content, helps ppl understand modern machining, all I had when I used to make subs was a 3inch HSS spade drill mounted in a shop made bar and then held in the tool post as you explained. Set the rpm and feed then sent it, the subs were 3 feet long and were drilled straight through in on go.
Nice work man! Yeah we just retired our spare drill. The CNC hates it. They can’t handle the Z axis load it produces. Man.. that’s some BIG subs. What were they for??
@@halheavyduty Hi Matt, I spent 10yrs doing oil field machining, from 13 3/8 casing to drill pipe. A 3ft sub was a standard length to meet API standards for BSR (bending strength ratio) so that you don't create any week spots in the drill string. I used to work the Hulks bigger brothers😀, the largest had a 16inch hollow spindle, followed by a 14inch.
Awesome stuff! Man I love oilfield / the drilling industry in general. We are looking at getting a 420 spindle (16”) megabore for the super heavy duty stuff. The CNCs we have are struggling with the sizes now.
thanks for sharing the details of your operations, I'm in the process of learning how to run an older (mid 90's) Nakamura turret lathe with a 12" hydraulic chuck and soft jaws.
Thanks brother. Yeah, I grew up watching him wind big HSS drills in by hand. If Hal were still alive I think he’d be fascinated by the new tech… but still use his old favs. Thanks for tuning in 👊👍
I run Sumitomo WDX U-drills, those things are a beast! I used to run a 50mm into 4140 at 1200RPM 0.14mm/rev 80mm deep all day long! But we were running them in Mazak lathes. 💪
Great video thanks. I use U drills on a manual lathe for up to 30mm Diam. They work well on most materials and are much quicker than HSS for a larger size hole.
I just got done (last week) making my own insert drill. And if my conversion is right it’s a 95.25mm insert drill that I’ve been using in the vertical mill at my work. It takes 4 of the square peripheral seco inserts, a KSEM .75 center insert, and 2 komet chip breaker trigon inserts. And has a monsterous 476.25mm length of cut without any added extensions. So far the deepest I’ve drilled with it was 381mm that then got opened up to 4in in diameter. I found the drills sweet spot for breaking a nice chip is 650SFM and around .012/rev to .018/rev depending on how soft the material is. I got the idea to build the drill from your videos
Mate that’s AWESOME! Bloody love it. If you get time, send me a photo at halengineeringaustralia@gmail.com I’d love to see what you built! Well done brother 👊
I'll leave a follow. Let's see what your next topics are. For adjusting the tool height I'd recommend using a rigid, short arm for the dial indicator (C shaped with a stud to clamp on with the chuck and a clamp for the dial indicator in the other side - overall length maybe 100mm) as the "common" magnet holders like yours sometimes tend to sag when you turn them from the top to the low position. In my case this was about 0.05mm. Not a big deal with U drills, but for smaller boring bars or solid carbide drills it might become an issue.
That’s solid advice, and much appreciated. I know the ones you’re referring to… we don’t have any, but it might be time to grab one. Thanks again brother. Great comment
Will do. Honestly the reason we moved them into the CNC was due to the mess. They drill fine if you follow the steps in this video, but coolant goes EVERYWHERE. It’s a bloody mess 🤣 But you totally can do it.
Great content! A tip for the filming, if the camera is inside the enclosure rig an air line and nozzle to blow air on the lens. This will do a lot to keep it clear
I worked at an engineering company maching a lot of 316 stainless. The guy running one of the large swift manual lathes needed to put a large hole in a part, so he borrowed a 90mm u drill from the cnc lathe operator. He was told that if he wrecked it that it would be on him! I saw the result of incorrect running of the u drill which now had a 90 degree bend in it! The cnc guy said he needed to tell the workshop manager what he had done as it was the only 90mm drill and the cnc guy needed it for a particular part!
@@halheavyduty they also make some lorge turning machines, I ran a 2.5 meter chuck lathe and a 6 meter Vertical lathe they made during my apprenticeship.
85%, Comfortable maximum, I like that. I had a guy always want to push stuff, 4x the carbide usage, blown up collets, scrap parts, ejected parts. I like boring dependable data.
Excellent vid. We have found that running them slightly off center around X0.01" (X0.25mm) helps really improve the squealing. We run kennametal 1" (25.4mm) ones in 304 and the MRR and tool life is incredible.
@@halheavyduty Glad you're having great results with the drill. You will get maximum tool life by turning on the coolant before the drill starts cutting. Late coolant flow can cause micro-cracks in the insert cutting edge and reduce tool-life. Also avoid stopping the chuck with the drill still in the cut as that can also cause chipping on the insert's cutting edge. Anyway great video! Cheers!
We run all types of indexable drills in mild steel, 4150 pht and stainless. The one that has the least amount of tool pressure and squeal is the Kyocera Magic drill. Have you used those before?
The old square insert on the outside had issues with undercutting the size by about 0.1mm , so one company I worked for had us shimming the insert out with thin brass sheet to get it to +0.05mm
Clever. Personally I hate it he drills with the external square inserts. I’ve found they squeal the worst. The dual trigon style are my preferred for our style of work
Not a stupid question at all. It’s a common issue. We actually run a pink cutting fluid called “holemaker” that has excellent anti rust properties. Not commonly used in CNCs to my knowledge. While there might be better performing fluids out there, it does the job for us.
As long as the oil to water ratio is right we have never had any problems with rust. There is an optical gauge you use to check the ratio. We use a synthetic oil that is clear and a mixer that screws into a 44 gallon drum that you can adjust so the ratio is right. The manufacturer gives you the recommended ratio but we normally aim for a slightly higher oil ratio to allow for heavy cutting. Maybe every 5-8th top up you can use straight water as it evaporates but you have to check to make sure the ratio is still right otherwise it may rust the machine.
@@halheavyduty I dont run coolant. I just brush cutting oil on the work piece as I dont want my lathe to go rusty. Sum have used neat thin oil as coolant to stop rust. Im not sure which way to go yet. cheers matey
U Drills are definitely the way to go for roughing out a hole. Maybe 2 other things I could add when using a U Drill ?? Always, use Plenty of Coolant. ( maybe Not possible on a standard Manual Lathe ?? ) You need to get the chips away from the cutting edge as soon as possible. And ?? Don't use a U Drill to open up an existing hole, Unless you're only using the leading edge Insert as a Boring Bar. ( which is another use for a U Drill. But, it can be a Expensive Carbide Insert to use as a Boring Bar ??? )
Great points. Totally agree. Especially re coolant. They need LOTS of it to run properly. I’ve found that re boring using them - only effective with the shorter ones. At least with 4140 steel that is. We stick to boring bars simply because they give a better finish, but you can definitely use the Udrills if needed.
I like the concept of using a U drill as boring bar. In a CNC lathe there's a limited number of tool positions. I did see an ad for a U-drill type tool saying it has three applications if I remember correctly. Have to look it up, I think it was Hoffmann. In the CAM software at least I'd have to define the tool at least twice, one as a drill and one as a boring bar. So far I have found that our (Hypermill) software does not react kindly to 'used-differently-than-intended' tool applications. One other drawback might be uneven wear.
@@bigbattenberg There are some advantages to using a U Drill as a Boring Bar. But like everything in life. Every positive has a negative. Uneven wear is definitely one of them. Especially on the outer Insert where most of wear takes place. I'm surprised a high end CAM software like Hypermill doesn't allow you to set up a tool how you want 🤔 But, then again. Knowing how frustrating some CAM software can be, it doesn't really surprise me 😒 What machine are you running Hypermill on ?
@@weldmachine For milling, SHW UniSpeed and Powerspeed, three Mazaks and a Hermle. I have just started applying Hypermill to the turning department where we have two Okumas, a Geminis and a Weiler. I am in the Hypermill learning curve and I'm sure there a ways to define the U-drill as a boring bar. In fact I have seen them already defined as both a drill and an end mill, this is something my colleague did so I'm not sure why this is. One thing I want to do at least is program the U-drill off-center in turning to get the actual result of the operation in the software. Also It would prevent having to manually input the X offset at the machine.
@@bigbattenberg I had a feeling you might say Mazak,s when you mentioned Hypermill. Defining the tool in a different configuration will let you do more in the software. CAM software can get a little difficult if you're too honest with it. It just looks different in Graphics. But you can still see what the tool is doing. Sometimes the software can be designed to be Too foolproof and it gets a little temperamental when you're on a learning curve 👍
You might want to mount a clear view screen infront of your camera to keep the lens free of coolant. Its basically just a spinning piece of plastic. I would add a layer of laminate so that when chips hit it they only damage the tear off laminate.
I definitely need to come up with a solution, that’s for sure. I like that idea. I’ve seen the clear view screens on a DMG MORI monster size machine and it worked brilliantly. Appreciate the suggestion Chris. Thank you.
What was the spindle & feed load during the drilling with the cutting data you used on that machine in this video? I was hoping to see the screen whilst you were drilling.
Just this week I have been modeling the actual profile of a U-drill head for the CAM software. Product has a blind hole and the end face needs to be flat. So far all our U-drills have been defined as flat while in fact they are not, which means more material is left than the software shows. For a next operation facing the bottom with a boring bar this gives problems, the software does not allow 'safety air cutting'. With the dia 25 mm Sandvik used the profile depth is around .65 mm so it's not trivial.
@@halheavyduty It's not really complicated as such but the devil is in the details as usual! You see, the tool tip is the highest point of the inboard insert cutting the circular groove as you can see in this video. So while with a flat bottom tool defined the software thinks a flat surface is cut at the tool tip position, in actual fact a substantial amount of material is left.
Good to know. Our shop made “Kraken” 110mm drill runs Kyocera inserts and it’s pretty damn tough. Haven’t checked out Mitsubishi yet. Will have to do that. Thanks mate
Hay great vid Got any data on 316 i am finding my way atm with spade drills 24 dia …made the mistake of pre drilling and it bleu up tips untill i rigged up thu tool cooling and went straight in 800 rpm @ 50mm/min
Fortunately I don’t have to machine it often. Honestly I find it horrible haha. That, and mild steel are my least favourite to machine. Wish I could be of more help, but my honest advice would be to simply “test and learn” Talk to people Test it out Learn what works best for you Thanks for commenting brother 👊
It usually means you’re not drilling at the correct diameter, or center bight might be a little off. Try running it immediately after dialling it into zero and see what happens. I’ve had this happen too
Great question. They’re designed to be run specifically without pilot holes. As long as they’re dialled in, there’s no need. A major advantage of them. Some of the longer ones, like the HTS I’ll be doing In a future video have pilot bits inbuilt though - to stop them wandering
On my turret lathe I can't use the drill in this position. I mean, the outer insert is on X+ side. So when drilling, it will bend toward X-, and when retracting the drill in rapid, it will spring back and scratch the hole all the way. So when reaching the bottom of the hole, before G0 Z5, I like to do G1 X-0.25 this way the insert doesn't scratch the hole in rapid travel. Leaves a better finish and keeps the insert from cracking. On other turrets you can clamp the tool in both directions, but some are locked to one, and it's usually holding the drill upside down leading to this problem
@@halheavyduty really everything, mostly mill-turn with a C axis, small production from 1 to 200 parts, sometimes urgent parts, from 1mm to 2000mm diameter. Almost always 0.01mm tolerance on key features. Every material, from polymers to inconel, hardened steel, aluminium with PCD inserts. Regular old steel most of the time
That sounds really cool man. I’m looking at getting a DMG MORI NLX for the inbuilt mill turret so we can do bulk runs of stuff faster. One thing I love about this profession is how insanely varied it is.
@@halheavyduty it's so varied that nobody can ever have the full knowledge of it, or reach the top of their field. Every year some new technologies are released in tooling, clamping, materials, machine capabilities. When you think you discovered the best way of doing your work you see someone online doing it even better, sometimes in unexpected places like, let's say, Pakistan 😳 we don't have DMG Mori machines but I always heard excellent things about it. We do have a Doosan Puma lathe with a 12 station mill turn turret and we're very happy with it, but had we known what we know now, we would have selected the Y axis because we are too limited with the C axis, even if it can do a lot of milling already. As a lathe, it is smooth, powerful and rigid, but the milling side lacks power and rigidity because the C axis model comes with the lower quality milling turret. But talking about brands, the Okuma seems to be the ultimate mill turn machine experience
I totally agree with the y axis issue bro. If we get a mill turn in the future, it absolutely needs this feature or it’s just too limited. I’ve heard great things about Okuma. Seems the three leaders are Okuma, Masak & DMG. Japanese certainly have a way with precision machines…
I've just blown up one of these with an interrupted cut (i has drilled out the corners of a square hole before running the u drill down the middle). Any tips on using them for interrupted cuts?
I’ve never had any luck with interrupted cuts and Udrills. Totally honest answer. If I HAD to… I’d slow the speed down to less that what the manufacturer recommends, and start on the lowest feed.
I’ve never had any luck with interrupted cuts and Udrills. Totally honest answer. If I HAD to… I’d slow the speed down to less that what the manufacturer recommends, and start on the lowest feed.
These feeds and speeds might be appropriate here, but are painfully slow and timely for a modern machine. This is the speeds I'd run on a machine from the late 80s/90s. Something newer and regular size I can run a 1.75 inch 4xd drill at 2000rpm/ .007" F/rev. in 4140 PHT. You can't just go and do that, you need a machine and tools and inserts made for it. Seco tools do that without a sweat on a doosan lathe. These feeds/speeds are what the old guys are running everything at, I'm their supervisor, they just dont want to do it and i dont force them to. I also get shit done 2-3 times faster.
I really appreciate this comment. You’re spot on the painfully slow nature. Since this video, that 50mm Udrills is now running closer to 900-1000 RPM and cutting pretty well. I’d like to run them harder, but we are limited by the machines. I’m going to be more clear about that in future videos. As most do what we do in our workshop is heavy duty repairs, when it comes to manufacture we don’t have the RPM. Even our smallest lathe is a 1300 RPM max on the chuck. Hopefully one day soon we’ll either get a DMG or Doosan specifically for larger production runs. Thanks for sharing your speeds and feeds too. Much appreciated - and glad to hear you don’t force people to run too hard out of their comfort zone. Sometimes it’s just our example that end up encouraging people to step up a bit. Thanks again mate. Great comment from someone who clearly knows their stuff 👊💯
I haven’t purchased any Akko drills of any sort yet, but one of my tool reps stocks them. Have you used any of their Udrills or drilling stuff in general? I like Akko generally as they tend to be very reasonably priced.
Living in the 85% max is the place to be. Run everything at 110% and yeah you’ll get stuff done faster but that one time the tool gives up the ghost you lose all that time/money saving.
It’s possible I think, although this type of Udrill isn’t designed for it (to my knowledge). There are other types that you can use as a boring bar. Maybe this one will too. We just use it for drilling though. Make a hole big enough for Kong the boring bar to get in and take out heavy cuts 🦍 Where are you located mate?
Next drilling video will be much less on setup, and way more on testing varying speeds and feeds. Wanted to do this one first so I can refer back to it for setup tips. Thanks for the comment though. Noted 👊👍
It's good to see someone on UA-cam using realistic speeds and feeds, you can use all the formula in the world,there is no substitute for experience
Thanks mate. Yeah, I’m not looking to set any records - just get the job done safely and without damaging anything.
“comfortable maximum” is my speed 👊
Man, every time you say that its been a family business and you went into it, doesn't happen as much over here.
And that you're so excited, just makes me happy
I never saw the value in it as a young adult, but as I got older I realised how incredibly fortunate having a family business really is.
I’m just deeply grateful to be part of it all. 60 years and still going strong.
Thanks for the kind words my friend. Appreciate it
Your information is spot on, even for us guys with antique manual lathes. I've found that running under the limit a bit saves tooling and parts. Which equals money in the bank persay. Great video and great advice.
Thanks for the feedback mate! Appreciate it. Yeah, I find that keeping it to a comfortable maximum stops tool breakage and makes jobs quicker in the long run too.
Honestly man...
This was like easiest subcribe of this year for below 10k followers.
Examplery information and presentation.
Thanks so much for the kind feedback! Really appreciate it. Still trying to figure it all out but having a great time so far.
We're same at producing one offs or repairs in our business (Hydraulic Reman) not trying set records or amazing speeds and feeds just safe reliable parts. I'm new to CNC LATHES and I'm trying to run machines as intended, where as in the past on manual equipment everything thing I did was by eye test and listening to your cut and adjust accordingly. My lathe also has a big heavy chuck and I tend not to always go by manufacturers recommended SFM and FPM, IPR. BUT DEFINITELY enjoy the challenge of making it all work.
Thanks for your humility and honest content. I'm using a few of your techniques on the heavy side of machining also.
Thanks for sharing your experience - that's exactly what these videos are all about.
I try to share what I’ve learned, and also find ways to get better from some of the wonderful people who give genuinely great suggestions in the comments.
Great content. One word of advice, any time you have a mag base indicator with an arm mounted to a chuck and you rotate from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock the setup will sag due to gravity so it will always find a false center. Better to use either a very short setup with very little weight or a good quality coax.
That’s excellent advice. I’m in the process of improving the setup with a more rigid indicator base.
Someone else also suggested it. Really appreciate the comment brother.
Very helpful
Yep, easy way to check this is to clamp the mag base to a parallel and point the needle on the parallel and then just turn it around and check the dial. Gives a good estimate of how much it shows incorrect with that indicator, base and arm.
@@halheavyduty What we use is an indicator with a round stem and pivot joint. The entire thing is less than 2" long and has little weight to it. Take a slug of aluminum and drill a hole in the face of it near the diameter of the drill you are dialing in on. Then drill and tap for a set screw perpendicular to it so you can lock the stem in place. Chuck on the aluminum piece and use that to dial in the drill. The only drawback in you have to use a mirror. Try to find a pivot joint that doesn't use the cheap ball and locking collar, they seem to be made from very soft steel. My service tech has a nice one with a pin in the joint and locking screw.
I like it. Thank you for sharing!
A most worthwhile video - with a great description. Surprised you stopped the rotation at 11:17 with the drill still in contact.
Well spotted Brian.
I was wondering if someone would pick m that up! I usually wouldn’t do it like that to be completely honest.
Just hard to record a video and run the machine at the same time. Usually I’d keep the rotation going and stop the feed.
Thanks for commenting, and for tuning in 👊
We use these a lot in our cnc milling machines. They are great because you can drill on angled surfaces without having to mill a flat starting surface. They so make some noise though.
Dont they just! Noisy… but for us… essential. I’ve found running them slower than manufacturers guidelines tends to reduce noise.
At least on 4140 steel.
What material do you machine mostly?
Very good information in your video buddy 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks 👍
👍 good content, helps ppl understand modern machining, all I had when I used to make subs was a 3inch HSS spade drill mounted in a shop made bar and then held in the tool post as you explained. Set the rpm and feed then sent it, the subs were 3 feet long and were drilled straight through in on go.
Nice work man! Yeah we just retired our spare drill. The CNC hates it. They can’t handle the Z axis load it produces.
Man.. that’s some BIG subs. What were they for??
@@halheavyduty Hi Matt, I spent 10yrs doing oil field machining, from 13 3/8 casing to drill pipe. A 3ft sub was a standard length to meet API standards for BSR (bending strength ratio) so that you don't create any week spots in the drill string. I used to work the Hulks bigger brothers😀, the largest had a 16inch hollow spindle, followed by a 14inch.
Awesome stuff! Man I love oilfield / the drilling industry in general.
We are looking at getting a 420 spindle (16”) megabore for the super heavy duty stuff. The CNCs we have are struggling with the sizes now.
Awesome Matt, thats incredibly informative and entertaining mate 🎉
Cheers brother. Appreciate the kind feedback.
thanks for sharing the details of your operations, I'm in the process of learning how to run an older (mid 90's) Nakamura turret lathe with a 12" hydraulic chuck and soft jaws.
Nice! Most welcome. Hope some of it was useful. Great stuff that you’re learning how to use a new machine.
Keeps you on your toes 💯
what a nice way to drill. i still drill like your grandfather on my little chinese lathe. never knew Udrills even existed. neat stuff.
Thanks brother. Yeah, I grew up watching him wind big HSS drills in by hand.
If Hal were still alive I think he’d be fascinated by the new tech… but still use his old favs.
Thanks for tuning in 👊👍
I run Sumitomo WDX U-drills, those things are a beast!
I used to run a 50mm into 4140 at 1200RPM 0.14mm/rev 80mm deep all day long! But we were running them in Mazak lathes. 💪
That awesome! I love how there are some many tooling options out there.
Mazak lathes are the gold standard for sure. That and DMG.
Great video thanks. I use U drills on a manual lathe for up to 30mm Diam. They work well on most materials and are much quicker than HSS for a larger size hole.
So true. It’s a massive time saver.
I just got done (last week) making my own insert drill. And if my conversion is right it’s a 95.25mm insert drill that I’ve been using in the vertical mill at my work. It takes 4 of the square peripheral seco inserts, a KSEM .75 center insert, and 2 komet chip breaker trigon inserts. And has a monsterous 476.25mm length of cut without any added extensions. So far the deepest I’ve drilled with it was 381mm that then got opened up to 4in in diameter. I found the drills sweet spot for breaking a nice chip is 650SFM and around .012/rev to .018/rev depending on how soft the material is. I got the idea to build the drill from your videos
Mate that’s AWESOME! Bloody love it. If you get time, send me a photo at halengineeringaustralia@gmail.com
I’d love to see what you built! Well done brother 👊
Good one Matt, been looking forward to the HDS drill since the short. Keep up the good work. Cheers
I’m planning on doing it next week. Fingers crossed the big lathe is free. It’s been flat out with big jobs all week!
I'll leave a follow. Let's see what your next topics are.
For adjusting the tool height I'd recommend using a rigid, short arm for the dial indicator (C shaped with a stud to clamp on with the chuck and a clamp for the dial indicator in the other side - overall length maybe 100mm) as the "common" magnet holders like yours sometimes tend to sag when you turn them from the top to the low position. In my case this was about 0.05mm. Not a big deal with U drills, but for smaller boring bars or solid carbide drills it might become an issue.
That’s solid advice, and much appreciated. I know the ones you’re referring to… we don’t have any, but it might be time to grab one.
Thanks again brother. Great comment
Very well explained - thanks for sharing!!
Most welcome, and thanks for tuning in 💯
We ran the 2 insert style U drill, some up to 3 1/2” diameter.
Nice! That’s a solid Udrill 💯
Great review of the Udrill. If you ever most some tips for using on the manual lathe as well that would be great
Will do. Honestly the reason we moved them into the CNC was due to the mess.
They drill fine if you follow the steps in this video, but coolant goes EVERYWHERE.
It’s a bloody mess 🤣
But you totally can do it.
Great content!
A tip for the filming, if the camera is inside the enclosure rig an air line and nozzle to blow air on the lens. This will do a lot to keep it clear
That’s a great idea. I really appreciate that. Have been wondering what to do.
Will give it a go for sure
Want to see more content about different types of U-drills and other types of drills, maybe some comparisions.. Look forward for it, thanks!)
Definitely doing that in the future. I really want to show how the different styles run under identical conditions
I worked at an engineering company maching a lot of 316 stainless. The guy running one of the large swift manual lathes needed to put a large hole in a part, so he borrowed a 90mm u drill from the cnc lathe operator. He was told that if he wrecked it that it would be on him! I saw the result of incorrect running of the u drill which now had a 90 degree bend in it! The cnc guy said he needed to tell the workshop manager what he had done as it was the only 90mm drill and the cnc guy needed it for a particular part!
Faaaark. I bet there was noise 🤣
We use Korloy KingDrill 90-95mm (adjustable) on 262mm spindle Skoda boring mill.
That would be a WEAPON.
Love it!
God I love Skoda borers, those things have alot of sauce
I’m going to do some homework on Skoda borers. Super curious. Thanks mate
@@halheavyduty they also make some lorge turning machines, I ran a 2.5 meter chuck lathe and a 6 meter Vertical lathe they made during my apprenticeship.
85%, Comfortable maximum, I like that. I had a guy always want to push stuff, 4x the carbide usage, blown up collets, scrap parts, ejected parts. I like boring dependable data.
💯
Success in this game is a marathon, not a sprint (in my opinion)
Thanks for tuning in mate 👊
Thank you I'm a millimeter machine guy and I'd like to know the speeds and feeds 12mm u-drill or 13mm
Excellent vid. We have found that running them slightly off center around X0.01" (X0.25mm) helps really improve the squealing. We run kennametal 1" (25.4mm) ones in 304 and the MRR and tool life is incredible.
Interesting. I’ll give that a go.
Yeah, it’s amazing how long the carbide lasts when you run them right!
@halheavyduty yeah I learned it from some old timer. I think the idea is it loads the outboard cutter a little more.
Awesome tip. Thanks mate!
@@halheavyduty Glad you're having great results with the drill. You will get maximum tool life by turning on the coolant before the drill starts cutting. Late coolant flow can cause micro-cracks in the insert cutting edge and reduce tool-life. Also avoid stopping the chuck with the drill still in the cut as that can also cause chipping on the insert's cutting edge. Anyway great video! Cheers!
💯👊
I use Korloy KingDrill in 303,304 stainless. Just eats it all day long. When using on 6061 we rough bore with after drilling with the outer insert.
Nice! I’ll have to check the king drill range out. I’ve heard good things.
Really interesting. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
We run all types of indexable drills in mild steel, 4150 pht and stainless. The one that has the least amount of tool pressure and squeal is the Kyocera Magic drill. Have you used those before?
I’ve never used of it, but will DEFINITELY check it out.
Thank you very much mate 💯
@@halheavyduty They have a few different styles, the DRZ with the 55 deg style inserts are my favorite.
I haven’t used it yet, but you’re not the first to suggest it on this video.
Definitely going to check it out.
Thank you!
Excellent video!
Thank you 🙏
Good lord, those are nothing short of magic.
We’re pretty happy with how they perform. Big improvement on how we used to do it!
Thanks for tuning in mate 👊
UDrills with the WNMG tips are the best from my experience! No chatter and you can push them hard :)
Totally agree!
The old square insert on the outside had issues with undercutting the size by about 0.1mm , so one company I worked for had us shimming the insert out with thin brass sheet to get it to +0.05mm
Clever.
Personally I hate it he drills with the external square inserts. I’ve found they squeal the worst.
The dual trigon style are my preferred for our style of work
Those drills are fabulous. Can I ask a stupid question. How do you stop your machines going rusty with all the coolant ?? Cheers
Not a stupid question at all.
It’s a common issue. We actually run a pink cutting fluid called “holemaker” that has excellent anti rust properties.
Not commonly used in CNCs to my knowledge. While there might be better performing fluids out there, it does the job for us.
As long as the oil to water ratio is right we have never had any problems with rust. There is an optical gauge you use to check the ratio. We use a synthetic oil that is clear and a mixer that screws into a 44 gallon drum that you can adjust so the ratio is right. The manufacturer gives you the recommended ratio but we normally aim for a slightly higher oil ratio to allow for heavy cutting. Maybe every 5-8th top up you can use straight water as it evaporates but you have to check to make sure the ratio is still right otherwise it may rust the machine.
Good to know. We do check out periodically with a refractometer, but honestly I just go by eye half the time.
What coolant are you using?
@@halheavyduty I dont run coolant. I just brush cutting oil on the work piece as I dont want my lathe to go rusty. Sum have used neat thin oil as coolant to stop rust. Im not sure which way to go yet. cheers matey
That coolant looks exactly like genuine Toyota premix pink coolant
Interesting! We use Holemaker. Can’t remember the brand, but it seems to work pretty well.
U Drills are definitely the way to go for roughing out a hole.
Maybe 2 other things I could add when using a U Drill ??
Always, use Plenty of Coolant. ( maybe Not possible on a standard Manual Lathe ?? )
You need to get the chips away from the cutting edge as soon as possible.
And ??
Don't use a U Drill to open up an existing hole, Unless you're only using the leading edge Insert as a Boring Bar.
( which is another use for a U Drill. But, it can be a Expensive Carbide Insert to use as a Boring Bar ??? )
Great points. Totally agree.
Especially re coolant. They need LOTS of it to run properly.
I’ve found that re boring using them - only effective with the shorter ones. At least with 4140 steel that is.
We stick to boring bars simply because they give a better finish, but you can definitely use the Udrills if needed.
I like the concept of using a U drill as boring bar. In a CNC lathe there's a limited number of tool positions. I did see an ad for a U-drill type tool saying it has three applications if I remember correctly. Have to look it up, I think it was Hoffmann. In the CAM software at least I'd have to define the tool at least twice, one as a drill and one as a boring bar. So far I have found that our (Hypermill) software does not react kindly to 'used-differently-than-intended' tool applications. One other drawback might be uneven wear.
@@bigbattenberg There are some advantages to using a U Drill as a Boring Bar.
But like everything in life.
Every positive has a negative.
Uneven wear is definitely one of them.
Especially on the outer Insert where most of wear takes place.
I'm surprised a high end CAM software like Hypermill doesn't allow you to set up a tool how you want 🤔
But, then again.
Knowing how frustrating some CAM software can be, it doesn't really surprise me 😒
What machine are you running Hypermill on ?
@@weldmachine For milling, SHW UniSpeed and Powerspeed, three Mazaks and a Hermle. I have just started applying Hypermill to the turning department where we have two Okumas, a Geminis and a Weiler.
I am in the Hypermill learning curve and I'm sure there a ways to define the U-drill as a boring bar. In fact I have seen them already defined as both a drill and an end mill, this is something my colleague did so I'm not sure why this is. One thing I want to do at least is program the U-drill off-center in turning to get the actual result of the operation in the software. Also It would prevent having to manually input the X offset at the machine.
@@bigbattenberg I had a feeling you might say Mazak,s when you mentioned Hypermill.
Defining the tool in a different configuration will let you do more in the software.
CAM software can get a little difficult if you're too honest with it.
It just looks different in Graphics.
But you can still see what the tool is doing.
Sometimes the software can be designed to be Too foolproof and it gets a little temperamental when you're on a learning curve 👍
You might want to mount a clear view screen infront of your camera to keep the lens free of coolant. Its basically just a spinning piece of plastic. I would add a layer of laminate so that when chips hit it they only damage the tear off laminate.
I definitely need to come up with a solution, that’s for sure.
I like that idea. I’ve seen the clear view screens on a DMG MORI monster size machine and it worked brilliantly.
Appreciate the suggestion Chris.
Thank you.
What was the spindle & feed load during the drilling with the cutting data you used on that machine in this video? I was hoping to see the screen whilst you were drilling.
From memory it was less than 50% on both. I’ll make sure I post all the data on the next run - and put the screen up too.
Just this week I have been modeling the actual profile of a U-drill head for the CAM software. Product has a blind hole and the end face needs to be flat. So far all our U-drills have been defined as flat while in fact they are not, which means more material is left than the software shows. For a next operation facing the bottom with a boring bar this gives problems, the software does not allow 'safety air cutting'. With the dia 25 mm Sandvik used the profile depth is around .65 mm so it's not trivial.
Interesting. Sounds like a complicated job 💯👊
@@halheavyduty It's not really complicated as such but the devil is in the details as usual! You see, the tool tip is the highest point of the inboard insert cutting the circular groove as you can see in this video. So while with a flat bottom tool defined the software thinks a flat surface is cut at the tool tip position, in actual fact a substantial amount of material is left.
💯
Great video. Just subscribed
Cheers Thor. Appreciate the great feedback mate
I love my 3.5inch flat bottom drill massive chips no squeal so much material gone so quick
Nice one. It’s great when you get a tool that just runs right hey
Very knowledgeable and clear
Cheers Greg. Appreciate the feedback mate. Thanks for tuning in 👊
Good video.
Thank you for sharing what you have learned and the application process. 👍👍
I just subscribed to your channel.
Have a good weekend.
Thanks for the feedback, and for subscribing. Appreciate it brother 👊
Korloy, Kyocera and Mitsubishi have the best drills on the market right now
Good to know. Our shop made “Kraken” 110mm drill runs Kyocera inserts and it’s pretty damn tough.
Haven’t checked out Mitsubishi yet. Will have to do that.
Thanks mate
Hay great vid
Got any data on 316 i am finding my way atm with spade drills 24 dia …made the mistake of pre drilling and it bleu up tips untill i rigged up thu tool cooling and went straight in
800 rpm @ 50mm/min
Fortunately I don’t have to machine it often. Honestly I find it horrible haha.
That, and mild steel are my least favourite to machine.
Wish I could be of more help, but my honest advice would be to simply “test and learn”
Talk to people
Test it out
Learn what works best for you
Thanks for commenting brother 👊
I like how you tell your story
Thanks brother
Looking forward to more mate
Plenty more to come
I keep getting a small little long nub in the center of my hole. Does this mean my drill is too high?
It usually means you’re not drilling at the correct diameter, or center bight might be a little off.
Try running it immediately after dialling it into zero and see what happens.
I’ve had this happen too
CNC ignoramus ….very impressed with the U-Drills.
Would a pilot hole defeat design function…..or induce more run-out ?
Great question.
They’re designed to be run specifically without pilot holes. As long as they’re dialled in, there’s no need.
A major advantage of them.
Some of the longer ones, like the HTS I’ll be doing In a future video have pilot bits inbuilt though - to stop them wandering
On my turret lathe I can't use the drill in this position. I mean, the outer insert is on X+ side. So when drilling, it will bend toward X-, and when retracting the drill in rapid, it will spring back and scratch the hole all the way. So when reaching the bottom of the hole, before G0 Z5, I like to do G1 X-0.25 this way the insert doesn't scratch the hole in rapid travel. Leaves a better finish and keeps the insert from cracking. On other turrets you can clamp the tool in both directions, but some are locked to one, and it's usually holding the drill upside down leading to this problem
Good to know! That makes sense. What kind of work do you do??
@@halheavyduty really everything, mostly mill-turn with a C axis, small production from 1 to 200 parts, sometimes urgent parts, from 1mm to 2000mm diameter. Almost always 0.01mm tolerance on key features. Every material, from polymers to inconel, hardened steel, aluminium with PCD inserts. Regular old steel most of the time
That sounds really cool man. I’m looking at getting a DMG MORI NLX for the inbuilt mill turret so we can do bulk runs of stuff faster.
One thing I love about this profession is how insanely varied it is.
@@halheavyduty it's so varied that nobody can ever have the full knowledge of it, or reach the top of their field. Every year some new technologies are released in tooling, clamping, materials, machine capabilities. When you think you discovered the best way of doing your work you see someone online doing it even better, sometimes in unexpected places like, let's say, Pakistan 😳 we don't have DMG Mori machines but I always heard excellent things about it. We do have a Doosan Puma lathe with a 12 station mill turn turret and we're very happy with it, but had we known what we know now, we would have selected the Y axis because we are too limited with the C axis, even if it can do a lot of milling already. As a lathe, it is smooth, powerful and rigid, but the milling side lacks power and rigidity because the C axis model comes with the lower quality milling turret. But talking about brands, the Okuma seems to be the ultimate mill turn machine experience
I totally agree with the y axis issue bro. If we get a mill turn in the future, it absolutely needs this feature or it’s just too limited.
I’ve heard great things about Okuma. Seems the three leaders are Okuma, Masak & DMG.
Japanese certainly have a way with precision machines…
Bloody good video. I like 85% 8 days a week as well 😉
💯
Thanks for tuning in Ryan 👊
I've just blown up one of these with an interrupted cut (i has drilled out the corners of a square hole before running the u drill down the middle). Any tips on using them for interrupted cuts?
I’ve never had any luck with interrupted cuts and Udrills.
Totally honest answer.
If I HAD to… I’d slow the speed down to less that what the manufacturer recommends, and start on the lowest feed.
I’ve never had any luck with interrupted cuts and Udrills.
Totally honest answer.
If I HAD to… I’d slow the speed down to less that what the manufacturer recommends, and start on the lowest feed.
Nice explanation
Cheers Barry. Thanks for tuning in brother 👊
Wow u can spin indicators upside down in australia?
Hahaha. Pretty much everything is upside down here.
@@halheavyduty Our water goes anti clockwise down the plug hole too!!!!
I just broke a 5mm tap on my second last hole after being on the mill for 5 hours.
It’s the worst hey.
Fark. It always seems to happen riiiiight a the end of an otherwise perfect job too.
@@halheavyduty luckily I drilled it out
👊
I use a 114mm made by Walter in our horizontal
Nice!
These feeds and speeds might be appropriate here, but are painfully slow and timely for a modern machine. This is the speeds I'd run on a machine from the late 80s/90s. Something newer and regular size I can run a 1.75 inch 4xd drill at 2000rpm/ .007" F/rev. in 4140 PHT. You can't just go and do that, you need a machine and tools and inserts made for it. Seco tools do that without a sweat on a doosan lathe.
These feeds/speeds are what the old guys are running everything at, I'm their supervisor, they just dont want to do it and i dont force them to. I also get shit done 2-3 times faster.
I really appreciate this comment.
You’re spot on the painfully slow nature. Since this video, that 50mm Udrills is now running closer to 900-1000 RPM and cutting pretty well.
I’d like to run them harder, but we are limited by the machines. I’m going to be more clear about that in future videos.
As most do what we do in our workshop is heavy duty repairs, when it comes to manufacture we don’t have the RPM. Even our smallest lathe is a 1300 RPM max on the chuck.
Hopefully one day soon we’ll either get a DMG or Doosan specifically for larger production runs.
Thanks for sharing your speeds and feeds too. Much appreciated - and glad to hear you don’t force people to run too hard out of their comfort zone.
Sometimes it’s just our example that end up encouraging people to step up a bit.
Thanks again mate. Great comment from someone who clearly knows their stuff 👊💯
noiicee
👊
That was cool
👊
this is way about my brains possibilities. just started with ab 210 x 400 mm 125 mm chuck mini china lathe...
Excellent. You’ve gotta start somewhere. Hal (grandad) started with a small pulley drive lathe that barely worked 😉
Akko drill 2x performance😊
I haven’t purchased any Akko drills of any sort yet, but one of my tool reps stocks them.
Have you used any of their Udrills or drilling stuff in general?
I like Akko generally as they tend to be very reasonably priced.
Living in the 85% max is the place to be. Run everything at 110% and yeah you’ll get stuff done faster but that one time the tool gives up the ghost you lose all that time/money saving.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. 💯
Parece que pode aumentar o diâmetro usando essa mesma ferramenta.
It’s possible I think, although this type of Udrill isn’t designed for it (to my knowledge).
There are other types that you can use as a boring bar. Maybe this one will too. We just use it for drilling though.
Make a hole big enough for Kong the boring bar to get in and take out heavy cuts 🦍
Where are you located mate?
but what is the reason why the industry called them a Udrill? Is it something so basic as them saying You (U) are drilling it?
I genuinely don’t know why they’re called a UDrill - the technical name is an indexable drill.
Got me baffled too
❤
👊👌
My boss would not buy a drill big enough to get a good boring bar in. DUH
😂👊
Oh shut up and drill. 11 minutes in and finally get to see some drilling. Geez!
Next drilling video will be much less on setup, and way more on testing varying speeds and feeds.
Wanted to do this one first so I can refer back to it for setup tips.
Thanks for the comment though. Noted 👊👍