Join the Railroaders Memorial Museum and FMW Solutions to recap the colorful history of K4 1361 The Spirit of Altoona and explore the engineering and restoration challenges in taking on the rebuild of this iconic machine. For the first time, we're making public a portion of the initial locomotive inspection report and a deep dive with our restoration consultants. We hope this will address many of the questions raised about the necessary repair work and the future of the locomotive. Watch our conversation and download a sample of the report here: www.fmwsolutions.com/newsroom/2023/10/17/assessing-a-steam-locomotive-for-restoration
A good amount of restoring a steam locomotive is fixing the repairs from the previous owners made incorrectly in an era they could get away with it. With every set of hands a locomotive is touched by comes a different way of doing things that may or may not line up with 21st century SOP... Thanks for sharing guys. She's in good hands this time, for sure.
The past work on the K4s was discouraging. Several giant steps backwards were taken in the past. With FMW solutions in charge now it seems that the engines future is in good hands. I look forward to seeing the progress on this wonderful old locomotive, and hope to see her run again. Jack
All this discussion is golden to a retired 3rd Class Stationary Engineer who, as a High Pressure Boiler Operator, shoveled his fare share of coal tonnage into two hand fired stationary boilers for a living in the '70's. Particularly interested in the metallurgy of the restoration, the planned stress relieving techniques, and the science behind the handling of new weight distribution issues posed by the use of thicker boiler plate. Gentlemen, I bid you God speed!
I had no idea Pennsy boilers were so lightly engineered. Seems to me a more robust design would have resulted in far lower shop hours and longer times between shoppings. Great video, thanks much!
Boilers were expected to be pulled down, inspected, and repaired every couple years in revenue service. The class 1s all had shops dedicated to heavy stream overhaul.
It's mind boggling how much engineering and planning has to go into this restoration. It seems like these men definitely know what they're doing. Much more than that guy that did the shoemaker job on it back in the 1980's.
All of the individuals involved in this video and the restoration of, Pennsylvania Railroad K4 Number 1361, are doing an outstanding job and I’m looking forward to my next trip to Altoona and Horseshoe Curve. Thank you for posting and sharing this video. An A+++++
Thank you very much for this video! I've been a long-time fan of this engine. The last time I saw her, she was scattered all around the machine shop in Scranton, and it looked like she'd never run again. I'm so glad to hear that there's real hope of her returning to the rails! ❤
Very informative video! I’m very proud to be a donor of 1361. I can’t thank everyone, who’s been involved with the project, enough for their hard work in this project. I’ll be making more donations soon. Looking forward to the next step in the restoration.
I remember riding behind CNR 6167 in Canada when I was a child, (I'm 70 now), but being very curious about what would happen to these "old" Steam locomotives when I grew-up and those that designed, built and operated these would no longer be on the planet. It's SO comforting to know that I was NOT alone. I only wish I could help.
It is too bad that so much of Canadian steam was rundown until the boiler or flue time ran out and then they were scrapped or plinthed, a few going to the US. I saw 6060 when I was a kid in Burlington, Ontario, on her last excursion before she went back to Alberta. That was the first and last time I ever saw mainline steam on home rails. Glad that it is still possible to do so in the US.
I have a family connection to this locomotive my great great grandfather was an engineer for the Pennsylvania railroad and in his time had the opportunity to drive PRR number 1361 I look forward to seeing her when she is fully restored back to operation
All these challenges and experiences will be critical for future steam preservation in American & for brand new steam projects to come like the first, T1 5550.
As an avid railroad fan and ethusiast and current history student, the steam locomotive has an appeal that is unmatched by most anything the human race has developed. The many different American railroads that not represented through the steam preservation era is saddening. The PRR specifically really had the draw from many of their classes of steam engines and the most iconic outside of the T1 is the K4. Seeing that the work on 1361 is continuing is encouraging that there is still a demand for the presence and preservation of the railroad. Recent examples of this include N&W 611, the Big Boy 4014, WMSR (ex. C&O) 1309, CP 2816, PRR 5550 (built from scratch), the rebuild of PM 1225, and now PRR 1361. To the hard working people of FMW, keep up the good work and cant wait to see that engine run in the future!
Great video. I learned a lot about how they are restoring 1361. I hope to be a able to see this wonderful machine in operation one day. I've been to the museum and it worth seeing if you can. Thank you for the update.
This is exactly the kind of info that needs to be brought to the public, right from the horses mouths, without being dumbed down, without insulting the intelligence of the people you need to target for funding. Fans want to know as much as they can about their interests. It helps in the understanding of where, how, and why, time, effort and money needs to be spent to accomplish the goal. The only info I heard in the past regarding delays was that "the crown sheet was too thin". Well, that just sounds like a vague excuse to a novice, not knowing what is involved with that particular problem. Now I understand that these things are big problems that need uncountable efforts by very experienced people to overcome. This is a good example of how transparency is a good approach. Politicians should take note.
The facia at the end has me wondering.... are they going to put the headlight in pre-war position? Or is that not the real smokebox front. I know headlight in front of the dynamo isn't the condition it was left in, but tbh I just think the pre-war K4 look is so much better looking.
Very informative. Thanks! Amazing how much work and how many years goes into rebuilding an old locomotive when big corporations like the PRR were kicking out 5-6 hundred of them over just a few years.
This restoration has been moving at the pace of donations, because the Railroaders Memorial Museum is a federally registered 501(c) 3 non-for-profit organization.
A quick question, (which I'm embarrassed to ask), but why weren't Steam locomotive boilers square instead of round ? 'Seems to me that one would get much more surface to work within the boiler, not to mention external top and sides of the unit. Anybody out there like to "chime" in ?
You have to remember a boiler is a pressure containment vessel and, as such, round cylindrical containers are more efficient, safer, and easier to design for containing pressure than square shapes.
Valid question, but a circle is the strongest shape there is because pressure is equal across the whole shape vs a square where pressure could cause the corners to weaken (from constant expansion, flexing). Much like the 1st commercial airliner, the de Havilland Comet with rectangular windows, cracks and weaknesses in the corners caused a catastrophic failure, which is why airplanes have windows w/rounded edges. The stay bolts, the manufacturing, extreme pressure, etc all contribute to the circle/round shape as the best/only option.
I detected a hesitancy to hindsight-critique the work of the PRR designers of the late 19th Century (the K4s were not the first PRR locos with the Belpaires) as they may have just scaled up what they had done in the then-recent past. Of all the belpaires of all classes Altoona stamped out, I don't see many records of them failing as did the legendary failure of that one C&O Allegheny. They were also common on British locomotives, which in general are considered lighter than the stuff over here, yes? Funny, they built all those J1s with radials, but went right back the the belpaires for the Qs.
To have a similar strength to a round boiler a boiler with square sides would be required to be stayed with cross stays which would increase design and construction costs. The stays would have to pass through the tube banks with an adequate calculated factor of safety and have approved clearances under current design rules and regulations. I believe a square boiler somewhat impractical and costly with no real benefit or practical increase in steam production. Remember a steam locomotive boiler is stayed between the inner and outer firebox sheets (plates). The distance between stays is calculated with standard known formulas.
a reassuring ,informative answer above With regard to long established british practice doncaster (LNER) burning yorkshire coal built round top fireboxes.. swindon GWR burning welsh steam coal high calorific value perfected a conical boiler coupled a swindonised belpaire firebox over three generations of CME's Dean Churchward and his pupil Collett and lastly Hawkeswoth and his post war counties
How about all the running gear gets rebuilt then worry about reuniting the boiler and final adjustments with both before proceeding. Much easier to get to everything without the boiler in the way.
Back during the press conference in May 6th, they said they will also work on the frame and running gear around this fall or sometime before the boiler is placed back on the frame.
The 1361 restoration will get done sooner than you think. The recent loss of 3713’s restoration is a rumor. The partnership with an NRHS chapter ended. 3713’s restoration will continue this coming winter.
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT SIDELINED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE ,,, "" TWISTED FRAME """ WHICH WEARS OUT THE CROSS HEAD BEARINGS , WHICH ALSO THROWS OUT THE AND CAUSES WEARING OUT OF THE PISTON , EQUALIZERS FROM ENGINEER SIDE TO FIREMANS SIDE , WEARS OUT AXLE BEARINGS ????
There's a lot of misinformation floating around on the 1361 and her issues.... I say leave it to the professionals at FMW, they will make sure everything gets done the right way this time, I assure you. These guys have plenty of experience, with 611, the rebuilding of the PRR T1 5550, and lots of others. I trust them wholeheartedly, everyone else needs to have faith in their expertise as well. I know that's hard to do given the circumstances, but that's all there is to it.
THE TWISTED FRAME AND WORN OUT CROSSHEAD BEARING THAT SIDELINED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE OVER 30 YEARS AGO ?????? SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE LIKED MY TRUTHFUL COMMENT
@@RobertSwickard-o1w Nice alternative account robertwickard8355 lol. You’re not going to stop this restoration. More donations are already being made anyway.
i'm gonna be honest but i'll believe it when i see it. 1361 has been 'in better hands' for the past 10 years now with absolutely nothing to show for it. its botched restoration has been a meme since the 90s and nothing has visibly improved since she was a hulk shoved in a corner at steamtown.
Apparently you never knew that this locomotive just got a new firebox (both inside and outside wrappers). The boiler will be back on the frame this year. The skeptics will never stop this restoration from happening because that’s the fuel to the flames to support the project even more. Hope you have fun trackside with your camera ready.
I was just down there; the tender is pretty much done, the firebox is mostly together, and they just sent the cab out for sand blasting. Keep in mind that the major leadership changes weren’t complete until around 5 years ago, and with Covid it was even more recent that it started having an effect
Join the Railroaders Memorial Museum and FMW Solutions to recap the colorful history of K4 1361 The Spirit of Altoona and explore the engineering and restoration challenges in taking on the rebuild of this iconic machine. For the first time, we're making public a portion of the initial locomotive inspection report and a deep dive with our restoration consultants. We hope this will address many of the questions raised about the necessary repair work and the future of the locomotive. Watch our conversation and download a sample of the report here: www.fmwsolutions.com/newsroom/2023/10/17/assessing-a-steam-locomotive-for-restoration
A good amount of restoring a steam locomotive is fixing the repairs from the previous owners made incorrectly in an era they could get away with it.
With every set of hands a locomotive is touched by comes a different way of doing things that may or may not line up with 21st century SOP...
Thanks for sharing guys. She's in good hands this time, for sure.
The past work on the K4s was discouraging. Several giant steps backwards were taken in the past. With FMW solutions in charge now it seems that the engines future is in good hands. I look forward to seeing the progress on this wonderful old locomotive, and hope to see her run again.
Jack
All this discussion is golden to a retired 3rd Class Stationary Engineer who, as a High Pressure Boiler Operator, shoveled his fare share of coal tonnage into two hand fired stationary boilers for a living in the '70's. Particularly interested in the metallurgy of the restoration, the planned stress relieving techniques, and the science behind the handling of new weight distribution issues posed by the use of thicker boiler plate. Gentlemen, I bid you God speed!
Gotta be done!!!!
I had no idea Pennsy boilers were so lightly engineered. Seems to me a more robust design would have resulted in far lower shop hours and longer times between shoppings. Great video, thanks much!
Boilers weren't exactly expendable, but there was an infrastructure to replace them as needed rather than expecting them to run for a century.
Boilers were expected to be pulled down, inspected, and repaired every couple years in revenue service. The class 1s all had shops dedicated to heavy stream overhaul.
It's mind boggling how much engineering and planning has to go into this restoration. It seems like these men definitely know what they're doing. Much more than that guy that did the shoemaker job on it back in the 1980's.
All of the individuals involved in this video and the restoration of, Pennsylvania Railroad K4 Number 1361, are doing an outstanding job and I’m looking forward to my next trip to Altoona and Horseshoe Curve. Thank you for posting and sharing this video. An A+++++
I’m so excited to see 1361 come back! It’s going to be a historic day!
After watching these gentlemen, I have more confidence I'll see 1361 run in my lifetime.
Thank you very much for this video! I've been a long-time fan of this engine. The last time I saw her, she was scattered all around the machine shop in Scranton, and it looked like she'd never run again. I'm so glad to hear that there's real hope of her returning to the rails! ❤
Very informative video! I’m very proud to be a donor of 1361. I can’t thank everyone, who’s been involved with the project, enough for their hard work in this project. I’ll be making more donations soon. Looking forward to the next step in the restoration.
I remember riding behind CNR 6167 in Canada when I was a child, (I'm 70 now), but being very curious about what would happen to these "old" Steam locomotives when I grew-up and those that designed, built and operated these would no longer be on the planet. It's SO comforting to know that I was NOT alone. I only wish I could help.
It is too bad that so much of Canadian steam was rundown until the boiler or flue time ran out and then they were scrapped or plinthed, a few going to the US. I saw 6060 when I was a kid in Burlington, Ontario, on her last excursion before she went back to Alberta. That was the first and last time I ever saw mainline steam on home rails. Glad that it is still possible to do so in the US.
Truly a great conversation. Thank You.
Appreciate the update.
Great work. Great progress. Thanks for this wonderful update.
I have a family connection to this locomotive my great great grandfather was an engineer for the Pennsylvania railroad and in his time had the opportunity to drive PRR number 1361 I look forward to seeing her when she is fully restored back to operation
All these challenges and experiences will be critical for future steam preservation in American & for brand new steam projects to come like the first, T1 5550.
Well said, my friend.
As an avid railroad fan and ethusiast and current history student, the steam locomotive has an appeal that is unmatched by most anything the human race has developed. The many different American railroads that not represented through the steam preservation era is saddening. The PRR specifically really had the draw from many of their classes of steam engines and the most iconic outside of the T1 is the K4. Seeing that the work on 1361 is continuing is encouraging that there is still a demand for the presence and preservation of the railroad. Recent examples of this include N&W 611, the Big Boy 4014, WMSR (ex. C&O) 1309, CP 2816, PRR 5550 (built from scratch), the rebuild of PM 1225, and now PRR 1361. To the hard working people of FMW, keep up the good work and cant wait to see that engine run in the future!
Wonderful video record informing and learning opportunity. Thank you !
Great video.
I learned a lot about how they are restoring 1361. I hope to be a able to see this wonderful machine in operation one day.
I've been to the museum and it worth seeing if you can.
Thank you for the update.
This is exactly the kind of info that needs to be brought to the public, right from the horses mouths, without being dumbed down, without insulting the intelligence of the people you need to target for funding. Fans want to know as much as they can about their interests. It helps in the understanding of where, how, and why, time, effort and money needs to be spent to accomplish the goal. The only info I heard in the past regarding delays was that "the crown sheet was too thin". Well, that just sounds like a vague excuse to a novice, not knowing what is involved with that particular problem. Now I understand that these things are big problems that need uncountable efforts by very experienced people to overcome. This is a good example of how transparency is a good approach. Politicians should take note.
The facia at the end has me wondering.... are they going to put the headlight in pre-war position? Or is that not the real smokebox front. I know headlight in front of the dynamo isn't the condition it was left in, but tbh I just think the pre-war K4 look is so much better looking.
It's not the real boiler front
She's Getting exited to be steamed.
Very informative. Thanks! Amazing how much work and how many years goes into rebuilding an old locomotive when big corporations like the PRR were kicking out 5-6 hundred of them over just a few years.
This restoration has been moving at the pace of donations, because the Railroaders Memorial Museum is a federally registered 501(c) 3 non-for-profit organization.
A quick question, (which I'm embarrassed to ask), but why weren't Steam locomotive boilers square instead of round ? 'Seems to me that one would get much more surface to work within the boiler, not to mention external top and sides of the unit. Anybody out there like to "chime" in ?
You have to remember a boiler is a pressure containment vessel and, as such, round cylindrical containers are more efficient, safer, and easier to design for containing pressure than square shapes.
Valid question, but a circle is the strongest shape there is because pressure is equal across the whole shape vs a square where pressure could cause the corners to weaken (from constant expansion, flexing). Much like the 1st commercial airliner, the de Havilland Comet with rectangular windows, cracks and weaknesses in the corners caused a catastrophic failure, which is why airplanes have windows w/rounded edges. The stay bolts, the manufacturing, extreme pressure, etc all contribute to the circle/round shape as the best/only option.
I detected a hesitancy to hindsight-critique the work of the PRR designers of the late 19th Century (the K4s were not the first PRR locos with the Belpaires) as they may have just scaled up what they had done in the then-recent past. Of all the belpaires of all classes Altoona stamped out, I don't see many records of them failing as did the legendary failure of that one C&O Allegheny. They were also common on British locomotives, which in general are considered lighter than the stuff over here, yes? Funny, they built all those J1s with radials, but went right back the the belpaires for the Qs.
To have a similar strength to a round boiler a boiler with square sides would be required to be stayed with cross stays which would increase design and construction costs.
The stays would have to pass through the tube banks with an adequate calculated factor of safety and have approved clearances under current design rules and regulations.
I believe a square boiler somewhat impractical and costly with no real benefit or practical increase in steam production.
Remember a steam locomotive boiler is stayed between the inner and outer firebox sheets (plates). The distance between stays is calculated with standard known formulas.
a reassuring ,informative answer above With regard to long established british practice doncaster (LNER) burning yorkshire coal built round top fireboxes.. swindon GWR burning welsh steam coal high calorific value perfected a conical boiler coupled a swindonised belpaire firebox over three generations of CME's Dean Churchward and his pupil Collett and lastly Hawkeswoth and his post war counties
I want to see you guys do a video on the FEA and stress analysis work you did with CAD.
Thanks to whomever deleted my restoration post about GTW 5632...but I get
Why not send the specs to Meiningen in Germany and let them build the firebox? I mean they have the experience and tooling.
The firebox is already almost done. Way ahead of you.
That would be an expensive shipment!
What is the progress on 1361 so far?
Currently, the donations made will go towards the boiler work, framework, running gear work, and placing the boiler back onto the frame and more.
@@chooch1764 do you think that 1361 will go to Strasburg to run? If she does, I cannot wait to hear her do the ghost whistle.
@@rudycarlson8245 I’m sure she can!
How about all the running gear gets rebuilt then worry about reuniting the boiler and final adjustments with both before proceeding. Much easier to get to everything without the boiler in the way.
Back during the press conference in May 6th, they said they will also work on the frame and running gear around this fall or sometime before the boiler is placed back on the frame.
workin on a steamlo
comotive 4k
I still wish for a Hudson to be re- created
You can always start a group and form a team to build one yourself.
please don't take 30 years like steamtown and their recent loss of restoring 3713 (where will it end up now?)
The 1361 restoration will get done sooner than you think. The recent loss of 3713’s restoration is a rumor. The partnership with an NRHS chapter ended. 3713’s restoration will continue this coming winter.
@@chooch1764 any update on 3713?
@@cykablyatman6242 Tender restoration should be continuing
What happened to 3713?
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT SIDELINED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE ,,, "" TWISTED FRAME """ WHICH WEARS OUT THE CROSS HEAD BEARINGS , WHICH ALSO THROWS OUT THE AND CAUSES WEARING OUT OF THE PISTON , EQUALIZERS FROM ENGINEER SIDE TO FIREMANS SIDE , WEARS OUT AXLE BEARINGS ????
What twisted frame? Now you’re just making stuff up. Just give up. People are donating to 1361 regardless of what you think.
There's a lot of misinformation floating around on the 1361 and her issues.... I say leave it to the professionals at FMW, they will make sure everything gets done the right way this time, I assure you. These guys have plenty of experience, with 611, the rebuilding of the PRR T1 5550, and lots of others. I trust them wholeheartedly, everyone else needs to have faith in their expertise as well. I know that's hard to do given the circumstances, but that's all there is to it.
@@PowerTrain611 Thank you!
THE TWISTED FRAME AND WORN OUT CROSSHEAD BEARING THAT SIDELINED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE OVER 30 YEARS AGO ??????
SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE LIKED MY TRUTHFUL COMMENT
@@RobertSwickard-o1w Nice alternative account robertwickard8355 lol. You’re not going to stop this restoration. More donations are already being made anyway.
i'm gonna be honest but i'll believe it when i see it. 1361 has been 'in better hands' for the past 10 years now with absolutely nothing to show for it. its botched restoration has been a meme since the 90s and nothing has visibly improved since she was a hulk shoved in a corner at steamtown.
Apparently you never knew that this locomotive just got a new firebox (both inside and outside wrappers). The boiler will be back on the frame this year. The skeptics will never stop this restoration from happening because that’s the fuel to the flames to support the project even more. Hope you have fun trackside with your camera ready.
I was just down there; the tender is pretty much done, the firebox is mostly together, and they just sent the cab out for sand blasting. Keep in mind that the major leadership changes weren’t complete until around 5 years ago, and with Covid it was even more recent that it started having an effect
😂
I don’t see anything funny with this. 😡