In a way, his leaving the church actually increases the validity of his testimony. If he had lied about seeing the angel and the gold plates, he would have had no reason to continue that lie after leaving the church. But instead he testified until the day he died that what he had witnessed was true, despite having nothing to gain from it. Clearly he was telling the truth.
There is that one unpardonable sin. Living the Gospel, was hard then, it’s hard now. He wasn’t willing to lie to God. He knew what he saw, I respect the man for that. Regardless of his reasons for leaving the Church, he was truthful to the end.
I Believe that he fulfilled his life’s mission by staying true to his testimony of the Book of Mormon and will be blessed for it. The Lord ultimately picked him as a witness knowing what would happen.
In researching my fathers side of my family, the non LDS side, I discovered some old photographs of the Means family taken by photographer Jacob Hicks. The same photographer who took the photos of David Whitmer featured here. This family who never joined the church probably knew many early members of the church in the Liberty Missouri area.
To be very fair to David Whitmer he worked with Joseph Smith Jr to organise to Church of Christ. David had a mind of his own when it came to religion and he didn't just let Joseph Smith Jr dictate theology unchecked. To David Whitmer and many others in the church to challenge Joseph was not an act of treason it was an act of loyalty to Christ. To say the least Joseph Smith Jr had a bit of a control issue and over time Joseph pushed out those who might challenge him. When we look at the Latter Day moment through the LDS perspective it is hard to understand people like David Whitmer but if you examine it from the perspective of the 1820's and 30's historical perspective Davids behaviors make a lot of sense. The Book fo Mormon witness for him was not a literal vision it was a private experience held with the other witnesses so that was a private experience. The church which he helped build was also something he cared very much about. Joseph Smith Jr as a unchecked prophet was never something he believed in probably because he worked closely with Joseph Smith Jr and knew him well.
I would also add it may have had something to do with the book that David Whitmer wrote a book where he tried to convince others that Joseph was never suppose to be the Prophet and that the Prophet was not the highest position in the church.
@@paleodust Maybe the presenter didn’t know about the address. (If that’s truly from Whitmer) Whether the address is real or not, it doesn’t matter to me, David had his own reasons. It is between him and God.
I always wondered why David Whitmore left the church because his entire family were very supportive and involved in the beginning. I know that Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris left the church but returned. Whitmore never returned. At least he never wavered from the veracity of the Book of Mormon.
Same reason we all do. We are human. Same reason even though you have a strong testimony you still sin. The hardest person to forgive in this life is yourself.
You have to understand the unusual position that the early church members were in. The church was still small back then, only a few thousand members, and no one knew if the young church would survive or for how long. Joseph Smith was under constant attack from mobs, the press, corrupt law enforcement, and even other members. Rumors about Joseph and other church leaders ran wild, leading many to apostatize from the church. And to some, the constant persecution of the saints made them wonder if God had abandoned them. It's easy to imagine how David Whitmer may have become bitter and decided that while the Book of Mormon was true, perhaps the church itself was not. It's not very logical when you think about it, but people rarely act logically when they are emotional.
It really makes no difference. He left the church dening that he had to be apart of it. Im excommunicated and i dont deny the Book of mormon either. But what Good is that testamony before a God who commands my repentance and obedience. He was neither.
He "voluntarily withdrew," because his life was threated if he didn't do so. See also "Salt Sermon" and "Danites." David's "sin" was expressing disagreement with Joseph Smith, Jr. and taking seriously his own calling, the authority he had been granted in the church, and proper church governance as laid out in the revelations. David's disagreements with Joseph included the institution of the office of High Priest, which Sidney Rigdon had encouraged, but which went against David's understanding of the New Testament, specifically the Epistle to the Hebrews. Also, he objected to the publication of Joseph Smith's revelations in the Book of Commandments/Doctrine and Covenants on the basis that they were not intended to be scripture for the whole church. He also objected to the church's name being changed from the original "Church of Christ." He also objected to polygamy. And finally, he objected to the supremacy of Joseph's authority in the church and the idea that a member in good standing could not express disagreement. David believed God had told him in His own voice to separate from the Latter Day Saints. "And now you know why."
I believe it was said in the Doctrine and Covenants that Joseph Smith said that all of the leading brethern turned against him at some point or another except Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball. And I'm pretty sure most of Joseph Smith's family stayed faithful towards him. Hyrum, Samuel, etc
In reality, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball were the ones who led the secret combination that took the lives of Joseph, Hyrum, and likely Samuel and Don Carlos.
@@thelatterdayteacher Well, I have to agree with paleodust because there have been a lot of people from several branches of the restored gospel who have been doing research that others choose not to do because it goes against the church narrative and not many want to upset the apple cart. The Book of Mormon says that in these last days much knowledge will come forth and it is.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 It would be helpful to know what " several branches of the restored gospel" could mean that feel they have the right to create or spread such slanderous falsehoods and what claims of pretended authority they pretend to. It sounds somewhat cultish or maybe just more anti-mormon fake justifications of the same lies, from the same bloodthirsty groups that used slanderous reasoning to murder the early saints of the church.
@@thelatterdayteacher In the beginning there was a prophet named Joseph Smith who translated gold plates. This prophet was murdered. A few years later a large group of the church left for Utah but many other groups formed and went other directions and some stayed in the area. Some of the groups embraced the crime of polygamy while others did not. You asked what branches of the restored gospel who pretended to have the "authority". They have the same authority as Brigham's group as they were blessed and ordained also. Not only the people in Brigham's group were blessed and ordained. I think we mostly don't know about those people because we were only taught that Brigham's group was the restored and only true church. Why would it be that only his group had these blessings and authority? It isn't just these people who have learned so much through research but members of the Brighamite church have really dug in and are finding a great deal of information that we members have never known. I don't know how much of it is true but I can sure see how it could have happened that way.
In a way, his leaving the church actually increases the validity of his testimony. If he had lied about seeing the angel and the gold plates, he would have had no reason to continue that lie after leaving the church. But instead he testified until the day he died that what he had witnessed was true, despite having nothing to gain from it. Clearly he was telling the truth.
There is that one unpardonable sin. Living the Gospel, was hard then, it’s hard now. He wasn’t willing to lie to God. He knew what he saw, I respect the man for that. Regardless of his reasons for leaving the Church, he was truthful to the end.
I Believe that he fulfilled his life’s mission by staying true to his testimony of the Book of Mormon and will be blessed for it. The Lord ultimately picked him as a witness knowing what would happen.
In researching my fathers side of my family, the non LDS side, I discovered some old photographs of the Means family taken by photographer Jacob Hicks. The same photographer who took the photos of David Whitmer featured here. This family who never joined the church probably knew many early members of the church in the Liberty Missouri area.
Thanks for this great information. Learning a lot every day from BOM Central. Keep it up
Another fantastic video! Thank you!
I so enjoy learning about the early saints of the church. These videos give more understanding. Thank you CFM I am learning so much ❤
I'm glad to have this additional information. Good to know!
To be very fair to David Whitmer he worked with Joseph Smith Jr to organise to Church of Christ. David had a mind of his own when it came to religion and he didn't just let Joseph Smith Jr dictate theology unchecked. To David Whitmer and many others in the church to challenge Joseph was not an act of treason it was an act of loyalty to Christ. To say the least Joseph Smith Jr had a bit of a control issue and over time Joseph pushed out those who might challenge him. When we look at the Latter Day moment through the LDS perspective it is hard to understand people like David Whitmer but if you examine it from the perspective of the 1820's and 30's historical perspective Davids behaviors make a lot of sense. The Book fo Mormon witness for him was not a literal vision it was a private experience held with the other witnesses so that was a private experience. The church which he helped build was also something he cared very much about. Joseph Smith Jr as a unchecked prophet was never something he believed in probably because he worked closely with Joseph Smith Jr and knew him well.
I would also add it may have had something to do with the book that David Whitmer wrote a book where he tried to convince others that Joseph was never suppose to be the Prophet and that the Prophet was not the highest position in the church.
He also wrote “An Address to all Believers in Christ.” He gives more reasons why he separated.
Right. It's sad that this presenter feels the need to lie about him, claiming that he gave no reasons. 🤥
@@paleodust Gotta protect the image of the church at all cost. Right?
@@paleodust Maybe the presenter didn’t know about the address. (If that’s truly from Whitmer)
Whether the address is real or not, it doesn’t matter to me, David had his own reasons. It is between him and God.
I always wondered why David Whitmore left the church because his entire family were very supportive and involved in the beginning. I know that Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris left the church but returned. Whitmore never returned. At least he never wavered from the veracity of the Book of Mormon.
Well now it's even more perplexing why he behaved as he did!!!
Same reason we all do. We are human. Same reason even though you have a strong testimony you still sin. The hardest person to forgive in this life is yourself.
You have to understand the unusual position that the early church members were in. The church was still small back then, only a few thousand members, and no one knew if the young church would survive or for how long. Joseph Smith was under constant attack from mobs, the press, corrupt law enforcement, and even other members. Rumors about Joseph and other church leaders ran wild, leading many to apostatize from the church. And to some, the constant persecution of the saints made them wonder if God had abandoned them. It's easy to imagine how David Whitmer may have become bitter and decided that while the Book of Mormon was true, perhaps the church itself was not. It's not very logical when you think about it, but people rarely act logically when they are emotional.
I think ill be making a quick trip to Richmond!
It really makes no difference. He left the church dening that he had to be apart of it. Im excommunicated and i dont deny the Book of mormon either. But what Good is that testamony before a God who commands my repentance and obedience. He was neither.
He "voluntarily withdrew," because his life was threated if he didn't do so. See also "Salt Sermon" and "Danites." David's "sin" was expressing disagreement with Joseph Smith, Jr. and taking seriously his own calling, the authority he had been granted in the church, and proper church governance as laid out in the revelations. David's disagreements with Joseph included the institution of the office of High Priest, which Sidney Rigdon had encouraged, but which went against David's understanding of the New Testament, specifically the Epistle to the Hebrews. Also, he objected to the publication of Joseph Smith's revelations in the Book of Commandments/Doctrine and Covenants on the basis that they were not intended to be scripture for the whole church. He also objected to the church's name being changed from the original "Church of Christ." He also objected to polygamy. And finally, he objected to the supremacy of Joseph's authority in the church and the idea that a member in good standing could not express disagreement. David believed God had told him in His own voice to separate from the Latter Day Saints. "And now you know why."
Thank you for an even more nuanced and accurate summary.
It is one of those things that we can ask Whitmer when we see him again. There is more to it for sure.
Why do you feel the need to lie about him? "An Address to All Believers in Christ" quite clearly gives his reasons!
I believe it was said in the Doctrine and Covenants that Joseph Smith said that all of the leading brethern turned against him at some point or another except Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball. And I'm pretty sure most of Joseph Smith's family stayed faithful towards him. Hyrum, Samuel, etc
In reality, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball were the ones who led the secret combination that took the lives of Joseph, Hyrum, and likely Samuel and Don Carlos.
@@paleodust That's a very slanderous thing to say; you have no credible information from credible sources to support you
@@thelatterdayteacher Well, I have to agree with paleodust because there have been a lot of people from several branches of the restored gospel who have been doing research that others choose not to do because it goes against the church narrative and not many want to upset the apple cart. The Book of Mormon says that in these last days much knowledge will come forth and it is.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 It would be helpful to know what " several branches of the restored gospel" could mean that feel they have the right to create or spread such slanderous falsehoods and what claims of pretended authority they pretend to. It sounds somewhat cultish or maybe just more anti-mormon fake justifications of the same lies, from the same bloodthirsty groups that used slanderous reasoning to murder the early saints of the church.
@@thelatterdayteacher In the beginning there was a prophet named Joseph Smith who translated gold plates. This prophet was murdered. A few years later a large group of the church left for Utah but many other groups formed and went other directions and some stayed in the area. Some of the groups embraced the crime of polygamy while others did not.
You asked what branches of the restored gospel who pretended to have the "authority". They have the same authority as Brigham's group as they were blessed and ordained also. Not only the people in Brigham's group were blessed and ordained. I think we mostly don't know about those people because we were only taught that Brigham's group was the restored and only true church. Why would it be that only his group had these blessings and authority?
It isn't just these people who have learned so much through research but members of the Brighamite church have really dug in and are finding a great deal of information that we members have never known. I don't know how much of it is true but I can sure see how it could have happened that way.
Should have added to the tombstone: The record of the Jaredites, (Pre-Hebrew/Isrealite/Jewish records) are true as well.
They should of put Lucy Harris in charge.
She died in 1836 (two years before this event). She was also experiencing severe hearing loss in the latter years of her life.