As someone just getting back into discus as a masters athlete after a quarter century away from the sport this very concept is one that fascinate me. From the context of Kanter's anecdote about "falling" it strikes me that the "fall" in question is what happens when the athlete sits back harder than the sweep can balance. I don't really think we should hyperfocus on "balanced" when doing slowmoving drills for this particular issue however because what we really should care about is the dynamic balance, we do need some form of "fall" into the circle but I feel that optimally it should be the 2nd or 3rd partner in a triumvirate of symbiotic movements. I'd rank the sweep #1 as that is what allows us to reach "outside" the circle to bring extra momentum in. The "fall" as previously mentioned is an obvious counterbalance to the sweep but the 3rd one that is perhaps more important than the "fall" itself is in my opinion the "step" or "push off" to get our right hip moving towards the sector thus lengthening the sweep and controlling any tendency towards overrotation. If we then add in the dynamic "drop" that Mykolas Alekna does and exaggerate it we can at least play around with the concept of an aggressive "drop" directing our momentum downward thus enhancing the push off and possibly allowing for an even stronger sweep... wether or not anyone can actually tame something like that is another matter :/
@@beulahverdell I'm well aware of that but I was suggesting playing around with the concept of an even more aggressive "drop" from the windup with the theory of "increase 1 component to give room for the others to increase as well". Mykolas is very much in control with his rhytm.
I think this is the same thing Mac Wilkins has been talking about since the 80s with his 9 o’clock drop. It’s something I’ve also been thinking about and trying in my own throws. I believe Wolfgang Schmidt does this best and I think he did it best in the 70s. That’s why I’ve been posting a lot of 70s Wolfgang throws. To be able to move the COG all the way over the left foot, completely the turn the hips to the sector, complete the turn of the left toe, push the left knee way down over the toe, pick up the right leg early and sweep it wide with the instep. Do this all before you begin to move forward into the circle.
I have to wonder if elite throwers doing this are unconsciously finding a way to increase speed at the cost of balance and control. From a physics standpoint, I can see how a fall could lead to an increase in speed. A body falling while also pushing forward gains momentum from two different vectors, the push forward and gravity pulling down. A 125 kg plus body in free fall for even a fraction of a second produces a hell of a lot of downward momentum. Essentially, a the "fall" is giving the body an extra slingshot effect that gains a lot more extra momentum, but at the cost of stability later in the throw.
The sweep was never a thing decades ago for me. I was taught to sprint across the circle as described at the back end of this video. The idea being that you are trying to run ahead of yourself for want of a better phrase. Drills always with a chalk line down the centre of the circle with target foot placings.
You were learning from John Powell. He never had a wide sweep and is considered one of the best throwers for his size, ever. You won't dive into the circle with his sprint technique. If you teach wide sweep to a beginner, they will automatically drop the left shoulder into the middle. Then you have to correct that.
I’m a freshmen in high school and my pr is 121’ 4” but My biggest problem with throwing discus is I lean back when I throw to not go out the front and when I do that it makes my throws bad, do you have any suggestions to fix that or work on it?
Olympic lifts like cleans and snatches, as well as exercises like bench and squat/front squat with less weight for more speed/explosiveness. Broad jumps, box jumps, sprints, and med ball throw exercises also help with speed/explosiveness.
The things that have worked best for my athletes are heavy back squats, single leg squats, cleans and snatches, and honestly just basic plyometrics and sprints. One of the guys I coach is currently like top 15 or so in the state for discus. He's a sprinter who does a ton of cleans and heavy back squats.
Olga Connolly finished 28th out of 28 competitors when she first competed in the discus. One of those ahead of her was the Olympic champion Nina Ponomareva. The Russian explained something, that may very well have been this, to Olga and she began working on and using it. Nina told Olga that if she got this down, she would see her at the next Olympics. Ponomareva was right and Olga Fikotov'a Connolly took the '56 Olympic Gold!
Throw farther with thrower specific training!!💪
👉 www.throwsuniversity.com/online-throws-training
i've realised this but i genuinly thought that's what supposed to happen bc they're proffesionals
As someone just getting back into discus as a masters athlete after a quarter century away from the sport this very concept is one that fascinate me. From the context of Kanter's anecdote about "falling" it strikes me that the "fall" in question is what happens when the athlete sits back harder than the sweep can balance. I don't really think we should hyperfocus on "balanced" when doing slowmoving drills for this particular issue however because what we really should care about is the dynamic balance, we do need some form of "fall" into the circle but I feel that optimally it should be the 2nd or 3rd partner in a triumvirate of symbiotic movements. I'd rank the sweep #1 as that is what allows us to reach "outside" the circle to bring extra momentum in. The "fall" as previously mentioned is an obvious counterbalance to the sweep but the 3rd one that is perhaps more important than the "fall" itself is in my opinion the "step" or "push off" to get our right hip moving towards the sector thus lengthening the sweep and controlling any tendency towards overrotation. If we then add in the dynamic "drop" that Mykolas Alekna does and exaggerate it we can at least play around with the concept of an aggressive "drop" directing our momentum downward thus enhancing the push off and possibly allowing for an even stronger sweep... wether or not anyone can actually tame something like that is another matter :/
He just set the world record.
@@beulahverdell I'm well aware of that but I was suggesting playing around with the concept of an even more aggressive "drop" from the windup with the theory of "increase 1 component to give room for the others to increase as well". Mykolas is very much in control with his rhytm.
Gosh I wouldn’t be at least a decent thrower when I was in highschool if it weren’t for these guys. Thank you🙏🏼
I think this is the same thing Mac Wilkins has been talking about since the 80s with his 9 o’clock drop. It’s something I’ve also been thinking about and trying in my own throws. I believe Wolfgang Schmidt does this best and I think he did it best in the 70s. That’s why I’ve been posting a lot of 70s Wolfgang throws.
To be able to move the COG all the way over the left foot, completely the turn the hips to the sector, complete the turn of the left toe, push the left knee way down over the toe, pick up the right leg early and sweep it wide with the instep. Do this all before you begin to move forward into the circle.
Great video. Exactly what I'm working on with my 16yo daughter. Balanced sweep into the center. 🤘
I have to wonder if elite throwers doing this are unconsciously finding a way to increase speed at the cost of balance and control. From a physics standpoint, I can see how a fall could lead to an increase in speed. A body falling while also pushing forward gains momentum from two different vectors, the push forward and gravity pulling down. A 125 kg plus body in free fall for even a fraction of a second produces a hell of a lot of downward momentum. Essentially, a the "fall" is giving the body an extra slingshot effect that gains a lot more extra momentum, but at the cost of stability later in the throw.
Thanks very helpful, I wish I knew this before I developed improper tech leading to ankle operations...
The sweep was never a thing decades ago for me. I was taught to sprint across the circle as described at the back end of this video. The idea being that you are trying to run ahead of yourself for want of a better phrase.
Drills always with a chalk line down the centre of the circle with target foot placings.
You were learning from John Powell. He never had a wide sweep and is considered one of the best throwers for his size, ever. You won't dive into the circle with his sprint technique. If you teach wide sweep to a beginner, they will automatically drop the left shoulder into the middle. Then you have to correct that.
I’m a freshmen in high school and my pr is 121’ 4” but My biggest problem with throwing discus is I lean back when I throw to not go out the front and when I do that it makes my throws bad, do you have any suggestions to fix that or work on it?
Hi, I am throwing shot and disc for my first year on modified and I am just wondering the best way to get better explosiveness?
Probably just experience man. Working out could help as well.
Olympic lifts like cleans and snatches, as well as exercises like bench and squat/front squat with less weight for more speed/explosiveness. Broad jumps, box jumps, sprints, and med ball throw exercises also help with speed/explosiveness.
The things that have worked best for my athletes are heavy back squats, single leg squats, cleans and snatches, and honestly just basic plyometrics and sprints. One of the guys I coach is currently like top 15 or so in the state for discus. He's a sprinter who does a ton of cleans and heavy back squats.
Olga Connolly finished 28th out of 28 competitors when she first competed in the discus. One of those ahead of her was the Olympic champion Nina Ponomareva. The Russian explained something, that may very well have been this, to Olga and she began working on and using it.
Nina told Olga that if she got this down, she would see her at the next Olympics.
Ponomareva was right and Olga Fikotov'a Connolly took the '56 Olympic Gold!
Go Jacks
Keeping the left elbow inside the left knee is poor form
Actually it's proper form I think you don't throw
Bro what💀
@@CaseWilliams-x7w so crouser and kovacs don’t lead with the left elbow in front of the left knee?
@@trinalin1 Shot put and discus are very different spins. Hope this helps.