A Look at Improbable Cause & The Die Is Cast (Deep Space Nine)
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2024
- Opinionated DS9 Episode Guide looks at this two parter. Someone blows up Garak's shop, so Odo has to investigate who would do such a thing, and then grumbles about Garak so much that Odo seems to be the one with the biggest grudge against him.
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I love when Garak mentions Major Kira as someome who might want to kill him. Odo retorts with "If she wanted you dead, you would be" and Garak and pretty much everyone instantly agrees.
DS9 was great. I'm sure glad it was the last Star Trek they ever made.
'The USS Ben Sisko's Mothafuckin Pimp Hand' never fails to give me a shit-eating grin 😂😂
The rant about destroying the planet's mantle still makes me laugh out loud.
You know Operation: Dickbutt would’ve been a better plan.
It's the only way to be sure.
@@therealdankclankRipley would be proud.
The “boy who cried wolf” bit is some fantastic writing, when I was a kid I caught that scene on tv. This was long before I knew what Trek was but it stuck out. It’s funny, it’s the inverse of the typical “human learns about alien culture” scene, and it tells us a lot about Garak.
And goes perfectly with Odo later teasing him about shooting someone in the back. In our culture we're accustomed to someone feeling at least a shred of shame at doing something like that. Garak's response was "It's the safest way" said in the same voice someone might say "Well duh."
This two parter was pure fire from beginning to end.
The idea of Odo assuming increasingly garish fashions to counter torment Garak is an amusing one, and one I wouldn't mind seeing done in Lower Decks if done more for laughs.
There was an opportunity for Sisko, sitting in his office and reading his iPad, to suddenly see his baseball shake and fall off his desk ala Jurassic Park as the 20 ships de-cloak out of nowhere.
This episode really shows that you have not critiqued Shakespeare until you have done so in the original Cardassian.
This is one of my favourite scenes and a setup in a way . Garak could saw Brutus as a traitor from the start but later attacking the Dominion with Enabran Tain he will not be able to recognize the changeling.
@@tehdii The irony!
or as some believe, you have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon
@@goodwill559 That was, of course, part of the joke.
@@boobah5643 of course 😋 and a very good one too ✌️
One of the best couple-of-episodes of DS9. it exemplifies what makes DS9 the best ST series and part of why DS9 is the only series I own
These long reviews are great. This is such a terrific two-parter, I never knew and never or could have guessed that these two parts were such distinct entities at one point. You make such a great point about the subtle connections and payoffs. The torture scene was the highlight, both actors and their characters shined. I also love Enabran Tain. A rotund old gentleman in a cardigan surrounded by Romulans and he's the coolest cat in the crib. Although (spoilers) Colonel Lobok turned out to be a changeling, his line to Garak about Garak being a practised liar and him being a practised observer felt very apt to what is at the core of the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar. Clandestine organisations like theirs and Section 31 must be capable of both, but would anyone else agree that those are distilled foundations of each individual organisation?
Obvious reason for Sisko only mentioning Odo. Odo is station personnel. Garak is a (presumed) civilian, from a hostile power. The Security Admiral isn't going to compromise everything for a Cardassian. But he *might* for Odo.
Ah, quite true. I agree.
I dunno, Colonel Lovok's stiff delivery reminded me of the way the Female Changeling usually speaks. It's a very specific delivery and immediately recognisable as Changeling.
It is rather fitting that we never find out who Odo's contact was, given that he's visually based on how Deep Throat, the Watergate informant, was portrayed in All The President's Men (who himself was not revealed until he came forward decades later)
I love these two episodes so much. Garak is such an amazing and fascinating character, and this was yet another instance we really got to see the potential for his character, and all the complex dynamics behind who he is. He can be a coldhearted assassin when necessary, but he can also be caring and humane.
^This.
The tale of the boy who cried wolf: a poor risk management aesop.
If you want to get someone into watching Deep Space 9, just show them this two-parter. It has everything that makes DS9 the best Star Trek ever.
Memory Alpha has an entry for the mysterious informant as "Informant_001" and has some speculation as to his identity
I have thought that it was the Gul he hoped was still alive in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" (but whom had been executed back when the Dominion took over and it was actually Weyoun-6).
I watched your videos on Garak, Dukat and Odo. I absolutely loved them, I'm very glad to have found this second channel fantastic work all around
Everything is available via his website. You can Google the channel name if you are not aware of the website.
Right on, tyvm@@noblehelium3794
Damn good episodes - so dark. Poor Odo.
You blew your own shop. Circles within circles.
Plans within plans.
Blew UP your own shop, you forgot to say UP.
Reminds me of the Arrested Development joke:
ua-cam.com/video/hiTJ7YPzUdI/v-deo.html
Garak and Odo, the Super Fascist Friendly Show .
Yesssss. Maybe my favourite 2 parter in all of Trek.
Romulan ships are powered by miniature black holes and the Federation can make a whole planet with the Genesis Device. The Dominion have about the same level of tech, it's probably not that far fetched for them to think there could be a bunker that deep into the planet. Especially considering how paranoid the Obsidian Order and Tal Shiar are.
Part of the problem is that the firepower of ships varies almost randomly. Blowing up a planet is a lot of work, but people have grown to expect it. Simply destroying it to the crust should be possible in this context. The founders like being liquid and united, so it is not likely they would have some equivalent of a safe room.
There would still be founders around but it seems like they don't breed quickly. Maybe they require something from that planet of theirs.
Stories like these are why DS9 is the best Star Trek.
That device that prevents shapeshifters from changing form is impressive. It's too bad there aren't any other situations where they could've used that technology. Like, for the whole rest of the series they never once had an issue that could have been solved if Garak had only passed that technology along to the Federation.
To be fair, it was either built by the Cardassians or the Romulans, neither of which had much reason to share it for most of the series and it's unlikely Garak would've been in a position to nab it before the ship went down.
@@mikegates8993 Garak has always been good at using back channels and under-the-table dealings to get what he wants. If he knows a thing exist, and it's that important to the war effort, he should be able to get the designs so they can replicate more of them. That should've been the first conversation between Sisko, Odo, and Garak once they returned to the station.
Maybe the episode covers this, but how do you build a transformation-lock for Changelings when you don't have any Changelings to test it on? I'm assuming that Odo hasn't been running a side gig as Romulan guinea pig.
It's possible, of course, that the Romulans captured a Changeling infiltrator, but that seems like the sort of thing to _really_ get their attention. And maybe that ultimately explains why they targeted the Romulans and Cardassians first.
@@boobah5643 Yeah that's another thing I had wondered about. When Dr. Mora Pol studied Odo he probably tried to learn as much as he could about changeling biology. That was during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, so naturally they would have taken copies of all his notes. Maybe they shared the info with the technologically advanced Romulans to create the device?
A captured changeling infiltrator is another explanation, or maybe the Romulans went through the wormhole at some point, discovered the changeling home planet, and took one captive from there?
@@mikegates8993 It's clearly Cardassian - Lovok is shocked to learn of it and Tain dismisses it as "it's only a prototype" when Lovok questions why he hadn't heard of this. Which also accounts for why Garak couldn't share the technology, it was just this one.
I have nothing against cliches so long is good. 🙂
I rewatched the episode last week and I love it. ❤️
I didn't realize how villainous Garak seems at times in this episode. Of course, he is my favorite DS9 character and I certainly don't think of him as a villain.
Antihero?
@@jplonsdale7242 Yeah, I agree he is best classified as an antihero.
maybe he just threw in the amount of time needed to destroy the mantle as an example of a time frame, and they had no intent of sticking around that long. or maybe changlings can turn to diamond or something lava proof, we do see one flying in space at one point.
Flying in space? When was that? I havent seen the show in a while
Second Sight would be a wonderful episode to do an analysis of.
Garak was one of the best character's on the show.
Andrew did a Great job
I actually find that the ships being able to so easily destroy a planet to be reasonable. Again, back in Kirk's day they were able to rig up a planet buster in a few minutes. The issue, as noted several times in the franchise, is that you don't give the ground troops weapons that are so strong that if they explode they take out whole companies at once.
I seem to remember one of the Star Fleet Academy Novels(Trek High School type things) actually talked about this in detail during one of them(I think Picard's, but don't quote me it's been 20 years). Basically, their guns are exactly as powerful as they need to be to be useful against other ground troops, no more since anything more they could very easily get themselves killed.
But those ships? We've seen them be able to severely damage planets from orbit before(And also sometimes just fluff stuff, like that time when Voyager fired a photon torpedo at a ship in a city and it...barely seemed to cause the ship to list a bit). Anyway, a full on warship, with the best weapons the two black ops groups could equip them with? I can see them able to seriously destroy a planet with no defenses.
I presumed photon torpedos and similar have settings on them like phasers. The “stun” setting level a building, the higher settings can exceed nuclear warheads in their destructive abilities.
Don't forget General Order 24.
Which we get to see sorta in the Mirror Universe of Discovery.
So yeah.. These 20 ships would blast the planet hard... But can't speak about it's digging ability but!
4:14 😂 David Mitchell!
I bow before your erudition!
Great breakdown.👍
I love all sfdebris videos!
27:40 "I recognize that the Council has made its decision, but, as its a stupid ass decision I have decided to ignore it"
Prigozin didn’t realize that the die was cast when he marched on Moscow.
I stopped watching most of these star trek reviews but still find some entertainment in ds9 from time to time. Might be Rene Auberjonois is just that great an actor.
Where’d that twelves year old watchman clip from
Mitchell and Webb - The Boy Who Cried Wolf
One thing that I don't think gets enough credit is that DS9 dared to dive surprisingly deep into Cardassian culture, in a way that virtually no other alien species gets (besides perhaps Klingons). The writers of episodes like this actually sat down and though "what would be popular literature on a planet of fascists?"
Nice phrase "alea jacta est" by the way, would be have been nice, since there are some other episode names in Latin 🖖🤓
Ok has anyone EVER asked WHY THE FUCK the boy has called wolf ninety-fucking-eight times?
Why am I not surprised there are people who ship the doc with the tailor... smh
On the one hand, I could theoretically see A/M and harnessed miniature black holes, both of which the Romulans have, achieving that kind of destruction, but like you said, there's only 20 ships here, and if the Romulans really are sitting on that kind of firepower, why isn't it shown anywhere else? Where was that kind of firepower blowing Jem Ha'Dar ships to dust in the rest of the war?
Maybe it's less about the firepower and more about precision strikes against the fault lines? I might be reaching, but that's where my mind went.
Trek loves their Inertia-dampening-fields and Structural-integrity-fields so it's possible their weapons are just that destructive against average rock but not so much against an actively powered defense field.
I'd argue that this is one of the only times they realistically describe the power of Star Trek weapons.
Look, it's hard not to be a Bashir/Garak fan when the list of Bashir/Garak fans *includes Siddig and Robinson themselves*
They kinda rubbed off on each other by the end as well.
This two-parter (and the Garak & Enebran Tain two-parter follow-up in a later season) is among the brilliant Garak episodes, and among the best DS9 episodes in general. And the reason why Garak is still one of my favorite Star Trek characters. I was sad when in later seasons of DS9, the writers suddely ended the Garak/Bashir bromance, split them up, had Bashir have another bromance with O'Brian and tried to "heterosexualize" Garak by forcing him into scenes with Gul Ducat's half-Cardassian daughter who was several decades younger than Garak. (Which is why Andrew Robinson always played this relationship as a "fatherly mentor" to her.)
Years later, the script writers revealed in interviews that Paramount execs had put pressure on them to split up that "homoerotic" relationship between Bashir and Garak, when the writers _and_ both actors had deliberately played up that angle, trying to get around Paramount's "no gays!" sentiment which ironically went against the late Roddenberry's wish he could have featured a homoseuxal couple in Star Trek in his lifetime. (TNG back in the 1990s tried a few times with guest characters but still had to play it safe.)
Years later, when Andrew Robinson wrote a DS9 novel _A Stitch In Time_ about Garak on Cardassia, set in the time after the Dominion war and in the past in flashbacks, he wrote in the author's foreword that he had regarded Garak to be bisexual and tried to play him like that from the start, and that he and Alexander Siddig had both wanted for Garak and Bashir to be in a deeper relationship, but ultimately had not been allowed to.
It's better this way.
A romantic subplot most likely would have become plot cancer.
Honestly, I prefer they stayed the course of friend/ally/guy who you shouldn't trust with a gun and behind your back. Adding a romantic element to their relationship would just be too much.
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Garak reminds me of Varys on GoT
The difference is that Garak would end up on the Iron Throne. Whereas Varys doesn't play the game that way.
Another reason why armor (which is made of matter) should supposedly be pointless against such weapons if the shields go down. Considering the energies involved, melting an entire planet's crust with one ship is more than possible, it would just take a few days. A fleet can get it done much quicker, so vaporizing the mantle doesn't seem far-fetched. I don't see what's so surprising if you accept what you've seen the weapons do in other instances. Supposedly, the ships generate power in the terawatt range but as portrayed on multiple occasions, it's much more like the yottawatt range. Phasers have an effective range of 300,000km, enough to burn a hole through a gas giant.
Then in other instances, ablative "armor" evaporates slowly enough to be replaced.
Maybe if their structural materials were constructed with femto-technology, they could withstand what gets thrown at them using unknown meta-properties to avoid becoming quark-gluon plasma but this really, REALLY stretches probability.
I'd have to believe this combined fleet was specially equipped with weapons for planetary bombardment, though the effects we see on screen don't reflect that. Contrast this with Babylon 5 in the episode where the Centauri outfit their ships with "mass drivers" to bombard the Narn homeworld into submission.
Another thought that came to mind was what was said in the TOS pilot "The Cage" where a crewman said the Enterprise's weapons alone could destroy half a continent. So, DS9 era starships are presumably many time more destructive. Still, I agree with Chuck's comments for the most part.
Favorite two-parter next to the Paradise Lost episodes.