i feel like there should just be a toggle between normal and advanced, not an hours grind. i personally wouldn't want to grind out playtime with limited features for a MAKER game just to get to the meat of the game. i've had mario maker 2 since December 2019, and i still only have 650-700 hours.
instead, maybe you could unlock it after playing a certain number of levels, making a certain number of levels, or by beating something like story mode.
Buddy, if unlocking stuff is gonna be tied to the hours played I'm just gonna leave my Switch on. It's just gonna be an annoying roadblock for me who works 10 hours a day. I literally only have 100 hours in mario maker 2 since launch just because I have other things going on in my life. Plus basically hiding features behind playtime from kids when the game is made FOR kids just feels extremely wrong to me. Well made video and all, but I disagree harshly.
Agreed, and even then, I don't want to wait multiple weeks just to use the advanced mode. I would much rather have levels be classified by difficulty, much like in Geometry Dash, and have to beat any level of a certain difficulty.
@saltendo2177 I think just not locking up the advanced mode is the best solution. Little Timmy levels might become worse, but we just gotta accept the fact that 3 year olds also like making things
Worst idea I’ve ever heard in any video, we should not have to wait a set number of hours playing a game just to unlock the rest of the features, that was one of the biggest flaws in Super Mario Maker One 💀
The hour system would be really terrible. Locking features behind time played would upset so many people, very few people have time like that, the majority should not have features locked from them. All this would encourage is exploiting the system by leaving the game running to unlock the "hidden features". There are so many better ways to approach this issue, Nintendo themselves already uses a system to address the casual creator VS avid creator issue. They address it by keeping all of the course parts barebones, which makes things simple for casual creators, but making course parts interact with each other, which makes things customizable for avid creators. More interaction between parts expands possibilities exponentially. However, with that said, there are DEFINITELY some features requested to be added by avid creators (even some in this video, like invisible scroll stop) that wouldn't be able to be added with that design philosophy.
Like, that's almost 21 days. Of playing non-stop. I say 100 hours is better, that would be just 4 days of playing non-stop. And it would also be better for marketing.
I think the lack of updates was the game's biggest issue. There's plenty that you can do in the game already. Not having custom auto scroll in subareas is one of those nitpicks that don't really hurt the game. People have been asking for more parts and game styles more than anything.
It needing playtime to unlock as well is one of the worst ideas I've heard of. It would just encourage the diehard fans to leave their switch on afk to unlock these features.
@@liammccartney6754 Yeah agreed, I used to play Mario Maker 2 and have around 40 levels (few of them published but still) and have like 150 hours. That's wack if you had to have 500 hours just to have unlimited check points
@@alysdexia Bro shut up, you are in so many comments on this video thinking you are correcting them but you are doing it wrongly, and in your reply’s besides this one, you just put a bunch of random symbols that you think people will understand exactly how and what you are falsely correcting, and then you also claim with such confidence that there is no SMM1 like what are you, 7? Do you think Mario maker 1 doesn’t exist because you don’t have it? You haven’t seen it? Why would Mario maker 2 have a 2 if it was the first game? You absolute bafoon!
Understandable. Have a nice day Lmao Im kidding but in all seriousness though I can see the issues it would bring up. If they wanted to keep things simple they could just make it a toggle or feature you unlock after a campaign or tutorial.
Overrated Mario fangame, I am not gonna lie. I don't understand the hype at all. There are way better options and underrated fangames out there that everyone should check out.
Gatekeeping a feature like that is a bad game design overall. Imagine not being able to properly play the game just because you don't pick it that frequently (sounds kinda familiar). Obviously this is not a FOMO feature since it will always be there, but I think that they should do the same as they did for obtaining the hammer power up in SM3D, complete the campaign.
I feel like the coursemaker should be more like the geometry dash one since geometry dash didnt update for 7 years and it still had interisting AF levels being made
My biggest issue with Mario Maker 2 was the Super Mario 3D World game style. It removes so many things from the other four styles, and makes me not want to build a level in the 3D World style. The item exclusions are so baffling, like, why can’t you stack enemies in that style despite the fact that Goomba Stacks exist in 3D World?! Why is only Meowser able to be selected, but not normal Bowser?! Why can’t the day/night cycle be there? 3D World had some night time levels for crying out loud! I’m not saying the Angry Sun should be there, but the night time theme should at least be there! The item exclusions got so bad that I ended up scrapping a cool idea I had for a 3D World level, but I had to scrap it because it didn’t have the Dotted Line Blocks (this was before the version 3.0 update), and by the time they were finally added to the 3D World style, the level was already deleted because I thought they’d never add the Dotted Line Blocks to that style. Anyways my point is, I really hope the 3D World game style gets fixed in Mario Maker 3. I don’t mind it having some exclusive power ups, but it shouldn’t remove important course elements like One Way Doors, Night Theme, or Tracks
At this point just make super mario coding or something i feel this is taking a step too far for a game about placing stuff and see what you manage to make
I believe mario maker 2 doesn't feel fun because it feels dead. There's just no more updates. It would be really great if Nintendo could just keep updating the dang game instead of discontinuing it and making another sequel years later. All they gotta do is just keep slowly adding more items to the game and maybe some bigger features here and there, and we wouldn't even need mario maker 3.
Absolutely agree, bar a few things. Infinite sub worlds, space, limitations, etc. is gonna take up a lot of space. Smash Bros is an example of this with its stage builder. And if the online multiplayer mode wasnt bad enough already!
I get working for this advanced maker would make a whole a lot of sense, and this is just going to encourage people to keep playing. That is good, but one issue is that it would include bad types of players such as the little timmies. Not only that, but types of numbers like 250 and 500 is just way too much work for a casual player. I will say that it is not impossible, as they would make it if they are dedicated players, but even then, it does not fix the issue for garbage levels and would just upset the playerbase for having to work so much. A harder and tolerable condition would better. I do agree the game still has its limitations and there should be more options, but at the same time, you have to consider what options should be necessarily available, and what kinds of limitations should there be. Stuff like infinite checkpoints does sound nice, but one thing is if someone really needs way too many checkpoints. You definitely should have a limitation on checkpoints and limitations on other things, which was something that I do not think I heard in the video.
I agree a little that Mario Maker having all these themes would make Mario Maker feel much more fun. In fact, with infinite level possibilities, the only thing that makes certain levels look interesting is the gimmicks. The same music, the same themes, it gets stale. As for what I'd say make the game worse (and yes, I'm gonna sound petty). 1. the editor features, you could group this in the babify'd category but there's nothing like a fill tool, no line drawing, features like copying getting WORSE than the first game. Everything like blocks, enemies (which must be placed down one at a time) MUST be placed in the exact same way, no other way to place it. A game where it's more fun to make levels is Super Mario Bros X, which has a lot more features in the editor, you can place water, lava, easily set timers, and while there is a lot of themes, it's these small things that make editing much more fun. Hell, in that game you could straight up code physics for things like blocks, while Nintendo doesn't need to go that far, they at least can make the editor a bit more fun to use. 2. the level uploading, (which you kinda pointed out and Ceave Gaming pointed out in his Level Headed video). I know people will say I'm being petty, but it's a bigger issue to me, it's not really encouraging making a level, uploading it and barely anyone playing it. As the creator, I know all the secrets, all the sections hell I even clear checked it from the beginning, I want someone else to play it and leave a comment on it. It sounds like I'm hating on my own levels when I'm not, I'm saying that I want others to play it. 3. The Switch Online, the Switch 2 is confirmed to have Switch Online which I see ruining the game and no, I'm not being over dramatic with this. A thing that made the original Wii U game much better is the fact that I can upload levels from the get-go, the game (iirc it's like $44) is the only thing I pay for. On Switch however, I have to pay $80 for the game, and then $30 every year for Nintendo Switch Online, the bill adds up fast and can be a turn off.
I will never forgive Nintendo for giving us undo dog but not redo dog 🐶. They could really learn a thing or two from fan made games. When it comes to levels being uploaded I think its a matter of the easier your level, the more likely it'll get played which is unfortunate because a lot of really good levels will require some trial and error and many wont have the patience for that so the level doesnt get pushed out. Its why the popular tab is filled with refreshing and hold right speedrun levels
Personally I think if it was similar to a game like geometry dash, it could be very robust and interesting. In that game, there are endless options and no limitations. If its more of the same, I think it would die within 2 years
Nintendo MUST see this, I’ve had this issue when playing SMM2 and usually just end up playing some random levels instead. If a SMM3 comes out, this would definitely be an issue to fix! Great video 👍
I enjoyed this video. I agree with your main point of more customizability being better than brand-new parts, however, locking an edit mode, the feature of the brand-new SMM game, behind play hours would be absurd. About the "Advanced Edit," it's good, although there is an advantage of limiting creators. It allows players to more easily predict and understand a course they are playing, as it has rules and limitations; such are very important for Super Expert and Multiplayer Versus players. The limiting editor may be annoying, but it forces creators to overcome limitations in a creative way, and I love that.
It felt like in SMM2 they were afraid of people experimenting and having fun! It felt so much more restrictive than SMM1, despite having so many more items, and I think you perfectly explained why
I think the real biggest problem with some of the new MM2 items is that they lack interactions with other items (looking at you 3d world), which means their use is super limited. I don't think just adding more options to everything really fixes this issue, instead what I'd like to see is a bigger focus on items like on/off blocks or seesaws that have a load of different ways to be used. This would also allow then to appeal to both advanced and basic players: for example, to a basic player, a seesaw can just be used as a more difficult platform, but to an advanced player it can be used to measure weight, launch other objects, put other objects at very specific Y levels etc.
I dont think objects lack interactions but most of those interactions are unintentional by the devs. Uno Mas levels are a prime example of the many unintentional ways things in this game work together but because they're unintentional, they get taken down. So not only did they not give us intentional ways of objects interacting with each other but the ways we have found have been taken down. Your point is also one thats valid. Mine and yours actually play into each other if that makes sense
i think that they can just have an option for which level maker to use so that new players can still use the advanced maker, but not be overwhelmed by it if they dont want to.
This video makes many wonderful points, but there are two flaws that I noticed in your section about the solution 1: If you have enough hours in Mario Maker 2 and then automatically pass the level cap in Mario Maker 3 due to those hours, that doesn't confirm you know the ins and outs of the Mario Maker 3 course creator, just the Mario Maker 2 course creator. This can be solved simply, though, just significantly lower the cap to get into advanced maker mode depending on your hours in Maker 2 with, lets say 2 hours being the lowest it will go. 2: The much bigger issue is that we're still limited to Nintendo's creativity. One thing I want to do is to create a mushroom forest where Mario platforms in. Baren orange rocks where grass can't grow, small 1-UP and Super Mushrooms sprouting from the ground, the hyphae traveling deep within. Massive mushrooms loom over the forest, casting the wasteland in shadow. Whoops! Daddy Nintendo said 'Nuh-uh' so I've just got to make a desert. It is more efficient for me to learn how to code games myself than to wait for Nintendo to get creative. I guess a solution would be to have a suggestion box feature. Every month or couple of months, Nintendo can poll the playerbase for the new feature they would like to see and impliment it into Mario Maker 3. The only issue is that this would keep players in the "honeymoon" phase for a very long time, and would make critiquing the game much harder.
Instead of hours, we should use Maker Points instead. That would encourage players to use the standard mode and get creative with it (and upload it) Then, they can be rewarded for their creativity with even more things to use
I had played a bit of MM1, then even thought i played LOTS OF FANGAMES of Mario Maker... It felt limiting. Until in 2024 i stumbled with lunar magic, at first i thought it was a bit more complex than the usual one with the LITERAL limitations of the SNES, then i experimented and i saw that there was no limit, YES, i had to research for a lot of tutorials of some things, but i think it was worth it. Even thought i could make the usual grassy field, there was also the options to do mountains of desert, being in space, a forest in the sky, thinder over a swamp, but also add hammer bros, make yoshi playable by changing sprites, changing the physics of goombas, add new powerups, a custom overworld, and a whole lot more. I have been doing a bit of levels and eventually i will finish the game, however, i probably will take my time so at least it's not hot garbage, and rather, at worst, just boring, which is bad, but not terrible... if you're young, i do not recommend doing it in Lunar magic, but if you know coding, especially for snes, then it is ok, i don't know a lot of code, and it is still fun. (If you do not want to worry about anything, forget about it because from experience, it is a whole world of problems like bugs, sprite limits, bad code, crash, etc.) Just an opinion, i honestly don't recommend it unless you crave so much for new things. Edit: I said 2023, it was 2024.
I hate how much stuff is stuck in level theme (either game style Or background). I want to have water/lava/poison in every theme. Or have the exclusive enemies in other themes. Plus, separating the main 4 and 3d world styles was so stupid because the 3d world style had so little content. I also hate that every castle has to end with the axe, I wish we could say the level is complete with a boss. I also wish we could have longer levels and decide what items can be globally loaded. I hope MM3 is more customizable because I agree with the point you made about the lack of customizability.
I like the idea of an advanced maker mode. I think it would be better to never have it locked, but sort of hide it and slowly reveal it: Maybe you could find an option to enable it in less obvious area, like Yamamura's Dojo. But also, maybe the game could give you popups revealing it once you reach certain milestones, like playtime, or maker points, or courses played. This way it's still available from the start if the player is dedicated (less likely for younger audiences to find) while younger players can find it once they have more experience, while older players eventually find it too. The advanced mode should allow you more control over themes, camera, and physics. I also think they could make more interesting clear conditions like no running or no pressing right. Imo the problem with locking it behind playtime is that it can be somewhat cheesed, and lots of people would quit due to not wanting to play for that long.
SMM3 will need to take notes from the SMM:WE fangame (that yes, even though the fangame is janky it has many ideas that SMM2 doesn’t) and I’m not talking about just a couple extra items. I’m talking about customization, elementals and add-ons are a great feature that only SMM:WE have
Normally I should have 1995 hours of games but... 6 months ago my console no longer wanted to charge so I sent it for after-sales service. and since they reset my console for repair, some of my game hours were reset to 0... I still have my saves thanks to the clouds but now it's only showing 5H on the game while I have at least 80 level on my account. When I saw that the hours of some games were reset, it pissed me off.
i personally stopped playing the game because the actual course maker was too cumbersome as compared to the first game. the lack of a stylus made creating feel tedious and uncomfortable!
To serve as devils advocate: More options would spell alienation. I can see people getting overwhelmed by the number of options and needing to have to learn all these options. More options could work, but it would need to be introduced to the player at an ideal pace so they aren't overwhelmed. Could be through drip feeding new unlocks to the player. Nintendo would have no choice but to gimp the editor experience because nintendo wants levels to maintain a certain level of quality that can't become "broken", like restricting tracks overlapping checkpoints, multiple sub maps, etc. Even if hot garbage exists, it's at least not broken hot garbage. A big issue that comes with advanced mode is that the validation steps to sibmit a level could be much more complicated. Suddently there's more niche bugs that players could find and exploit to validate their level for submission. Its possible to handle it, but its a greater workload on nintendo that could be unsustainable. I think I could see the advanced mode working if players can only play advanced levels if they have unlocked the mode themselves. For returning players to unlock the mode earlier, it just needs to be a cheat code. Ideally keep it simple.
I absolutely disagree with hard locking content behind play time, ESPECIALLY if it’s just advanced features in Mario Maker. The playtime I get is directly correlated with how much enjoyment I can get out of it in the immediate time I want to access things. If I keep seeing people online talking about all the cool new features they have access to when they’re at 500 hours while I’m sitting at 50 because my content was limited and lost my interest quickly, I’m not even going to play or for long enough to access anything new. A better option would just be to make it an Advanced Mode toggle that is unlocked after completing a campaign that teaches the basic mode, then unlock another campaign that explains the advanced features. It’s directly correlated to completion of learning objectives, NOT how much time I wasted to do so. If I can finish the whole campaign in 30 minutes then I expect to have access to more complex features right away, because I’m obviously knowledgeable enough to deal with the more complex stuff. It should also easily be possible to switch in and out of advanced editing mode with a single button once you’ve activated it for the first time, so kids can still just use the simpler system. I also think you need to take a moment to consider the average amount of time somebody actually had available in a day. People are supposed to get 8 hours of sleep, and if you’re working full time at 40 hours a week on weekdays only, that’s 8 more hours each weekday. Adding commute time and getting ready for the day, as well as making food when you’re home, most people are looking at less than 6 hours left over. That would take 83 days, or a total of over 2 and a half months if we assume they don’t play on weekends, and if they play ONLY on weekends for 16 hours straight, you’re still going to be looking at 15-16 weeks before you’ve hit enough. Even combining the 6 hours a weekday WITH 16 hours every weekend, you’re STILL looking at 8 weeks before you’ve hit enough time played to access features that experienced people should be able to get access to as soon as they want to.
What I think Mario Maker 3 needs is for the game styles to work like how they do in their original appearance. For example, in the original Super Mario World, you could spin jump on pretty much everything. Can't do that in Mario Maker. And there's still a lot of things missing as well, which I don't really understand. The game styles are almost all the same and lots of stuff is missing.
Geometry dash is also geared to a younger audience and the geometry dash level editor is kinda crazy. Hundreds of thousands of objects, technical items etc. most importantly, nothing is locked to the player and i can promise you that no one has ever complained that its too complicated for kids. Locking things behind playtime in smm3 would be very unnecessary and the majority of people who will play maker 3 are ones that probably also played maker 2. and babying those players actually makes the problem youre trying to fix worse.
Thats a good point. I didnt even take into consideration GD but it does have a large player base despite how technical it can get. What I didnt mention is that they could always just make it a toggle from the start which would be the way to make everyone happy
The only part I REALLY disagree with is the 500 hours thing. That's almost _21_ days STRAIGHT just to unlock a feature that you should've had access to from the start. An idea similar to this was literally one of people's biggest complaints about Mario Maker 1.
I think the Advanced Course Maker should be available immediately, since having both options would fix the babied down issue. Have a simplified version of the creator that little kids could use or that inexperienced builders could use, and have an advanced mode for players who want to have more freedom without having their hands held; both options would increase the playtime of this game by a lot.
I think the unlocking the advanced mode is flawed. 1. People are just gonna farm it and leave their switch on. At that point if you can just do that, what's the point of the feature? 2. 500 hours is A LOT, I used to play SMM2 alot and only have less than 200 hours. People like me aren't the best at making levels (I usually make them for myself/family & friends) but I would like to use those features, I think everyone would love infinite checkpoints. 3. People are probably gonna be burnt out before they even get the advanced mode. Like you said yourself you wouldn't want to play another 500 hours of a barebones mode and so i think people have the same mindset are either gonna (A) get burnt out and drop the game before 500 hours (B) repeat of my first point. I don't think having stuff unlocked behind playtime itself is bad. Like your Zelda example I think it's fine to have a item in a sandbox adventure game to show your hours but I think having a mode in your Level Creation game is a very bad idea as probably most of your level makers are gonna be locked out of the feature. Overall still a good a video.
I think they could just make more hidden stuff, interactions and customization like the Weird Mario in Maker 1 or being inside the wall that was used to make the crossy road minigame and less limitations in general. i don't think the 500 hours idea is even necessairy
I've said this before, and I'll say it again... Just. Play. Levelhead. It has everything mario maker doesn't, and it's only a few dollars on steam. AND the game itself has a lot of personality.
I just wish we could make levels longer. I'll start making a level, and then I'll run out of space to evolve the challenge. Also, more sub worlds would be nice.
We desperately need theme customization as well. It could create incredibly good looking levels if you could choose the colors of the blocks, the music, and the background separately. We wouldn't be stuck with un-inspired looking levels. We would have inspired game play and looks together instead.
Amazing video! I do have a few opinions about it though. Although the problem you mentioned is very real, the solution might be one of the worst ideas I've heard. First of all, there are so many casual players who might just want to try a new building style but don't want to spend 500 hours playing. Like there's no way you need to play for that long to get more than one sub-area. However, the real issue with this solution is that the way that most people will unlock advanced mode is by leaving their switch on while being AFK, which obviously sucks. What I would do is either have advanced mode unlocked from the beginning, or you would need to do something such as completing the story mode. Another thing I would do is add something like triggers from geometry dash where you could do stuff such as moving blocks without tracks. This is what let GD survive almost 7 years without an update, and it should hopefully work in MM3 too. The game also needs to find a way to reward good levels because I think other than the lack of updates, what killed MM2 is the slop levels (generic speedruns and refreshing levels). Take one look at the popular tab and the top ten are probably all these types of levels. Maybe they could add level contests but they would be hard to judge as millions of people are likely to buy the new Mario Maker and Little Timmy is gonna submit "Boswer Hapy Sity Wurld". If you read all of that, thanks
Yes having it being unlocked through a campaign or from the beginning would 100% be the way to make most of the community happy. Guess I should have said "what a solution could be" cause theres definitely a lot of other ways to handle it. I just hope Nintendo can actually realize what the issue is to begin with
locking an advanced maker mode behind hours played doesn't sound great, people cant spend that much time in a game in less than a year, that would make really experienced players with little to no free time have no chance at using that mode although i do remember in mario maker 1 you had to put a certain amount of parts or wait a certain tiny bit amount of time to have new features unlocked which i think was a niche idea but in the end it's not perfect what would be perfect is to reintroduce the way you unlock parts in mm2, by playing in story mode get this, there would be 2 different story mode, one where you unlock the basic stuff, a relatively easy gamemode, and one where the levels are way harder but are made using unique features unlockable after beating these levels unlocking unique parts and other customization options could also be done by simply having a certain number of maker points, I know this sounds a bit cheesy since most creators that gets lots of maker points are those who make the already seen and boring kaizo, speedrun and refreshing levels and people who make actually good level don't have many likes, but honestly how else do you expect to get advanced maker? on paper an advanced maker mode sounds amazing, but the way to unlock it is difficult to think of, if nintendo ever creates mario maker 3 with an advanced maker mode, they will most likely find a way to introduce an unlock method for it
while the hour idea sounds fine on paper, i feel like it'd be better to just simply have two course maker modes from the get-go. standard, which is the barebones creator we have now, and advanced which includes all those complex features like you said. this way, people who are not used to (or just lazy) making levels they can stick to the standardized version, but if people want to take a step further or become more advanced they can use the advanced mode to really experiment with their creativity. i don't think little timmies getting their hands on this huge utopia on customization is a big deal anyway, since they're bound to happen no matter what. and hell, they probably wouldn't even have the patience to experiment with all the advanced features either, so they might not even be that worse from the normal slopfests. said slopfests might not even be seen that much since there'd be a big influx in unique and creative levels being made with the developmental freedom. yeah yeah, every other comment said something along the lines, but i just like to hear the sound of my own voice because i'm a filthy narcissist. (PLAY SMBX2!)
I would just be happy if they gave SMM3 what SMM had: some _flare_ and character. Like interacting with the title screen, or shaking things to get different things, or *the mystery mushroom SMM2 I still don't forgive you for removing the best feature-*
Nintendo just isn't a fan of options, so I don't personally see this happening. On the other hand, this would give the creator of Super Mario Bros X to sue Nintendo, imagine that; Nintendo getting sued by their own fans for once.
My Nintendo Switch says I have 9999 hours in SMM2, but my last major update elements stills have the "!" label because I haven't used them yet on my own levels
Locking stuff behind playtime is a HORRIBLE idea and all it would be is inflate the playtime numbers for everybody with literally no other benefit other than forcing people to wait to unlock theoretically interesting features. Have it unlocked from the start, or, better idea, just have the game be constantly updated at a more frequent rate with new stuff.
A bit of an unrealistic wish, but i feel like they could add a game style maker, and it woudl last for at least two years after it was added. Everything they would need is even in Mario Paint, Wario Ware DIY, and Game Builder Garage unless you want to work with 3D models
The Problem Is That It Is Hard To Make An Update Were Everyone Is Happy. For Example Let's Take Minecraft 6:25 Hardcore Players Are Complaining About The Recovery Compass Is Yousless In Hardcore
I really like this take about having more option, the 250 hours thing is a weird idea imo, when if you play a new smm game you want to get to the new cool not in 250 hours grind, ofc you have an fix for this but well older player may try the new game and some people which didn't grind that much could want to test the new stuff, and 250 hours is a lot not everyone is a creator there is casual players.
Yes, the only category of players that wouldnt benefit from this would be older players who havent played MM2 which I haven't thought of something for that lol. But as long as Nintendo finds away to fix this "lack of options" issue, I'll take it
I understand it needs to be hard but I don't think you understand how obsurd that requirement is without me just leaving my switch on for a month even if they took my mm2 hours into consideration
the only reason i stopped playing smm2 is because of THE STUPID COURSE LIMIT ARFEOFEOWFIJEWOIF JUST LET ME MAKE AS MANY COURSES AS I WANT I DONT WANNA DELETE COURSES JUST TO MAKE NEW ONES FEHWGOIEHGFOEIFJOEF
I dont see the problem with hot garbagw being made in advanced mode. Does needing to use a star to go through 200 instead of 100 enemies really make a difference? Does having to navigate through a maze of 20 pipes instead of 10 make a difference? Bad levels are always gonna exist, so focussing on enabling absolutely amazing levels to made makes a lot of sense. Removing those amazing levels for the first months of the game would cause for an atrocious launch. Which is one of the worst things that can happen to a game sales-wise.
Idk I honestly don't care how many kids make hot garbage, I'd rather that than waiting (and I'm pretty sure if Nintendo did do this idea, they would not go so far as the data linking thing so we'd all be starting over anyway). I hated the time-based unlocks in Super Mario Maker 1. I cheesed them by changing the Wii U's time, but still it was tedious and I feel like I should have had access to everything from the start. The hot garbage makes for great content anyway. The better solution for people who want to avoid that is just giving us a filter that prioritizes levels with more likes than boos.
As someone who didnt know about MM1 until I played MM2 (dont ask me how thats possible l 💀) I didn't realize that they had time based unlocks in that game. I honestly thought it was something they hadnt done before but since they have and the reception was seemingly negative I would have thought of a different solution.
I think the issues are really apparent in Super Worlds. Like if I could design my own toad house minigames like the ones in NSMB Wii that would be really cool. Also an option to just ditch the tile system, draw your own background and put the map lines over it would be nice. They really need to bring back something like the Mario Paint mouse accessory for the next Mario Maker. I’d play the hell out of Mario Maker if I didn’t have to build with a controller if I want to play on my TV. Or just make the game compatible with any old computer mouse. Almost everyone has one now.
The Answer to your 2nd question @1:14 is, "Make levels that are fun for you to play." I say this as someone whos never played any of the Mario makers games but has watched a ton of MM1 and 2 content. If your treating the MM game like its a business model and your in it to finically profit on the free labor that other people put in the game well lets just say thats a good reason why nintendo is watching. They not here to listen to your ideas cause they know, THEY KNOW YOUR HEART IS IN THE WRONG PLACE (not medically but metaphorically), and it is this reason why there is limitation to the framework at which what you can do in Mario Maker. Understand they making this game for our collective enjoyment... This isnt rocket science, but there is a dynamic here that is very unique to Mario games that many other games wish they have and its the longevity of the Mario game... Mario comes from very simple 16bit beginnings and has age very well through the decades which means there is a trove of people out there with so much talent and skill for the game that the MM series is a great place to show case the collective talent that is out there. This here is what you need to focus on. This is where Creators come in, cause it take a very talented creator to create a very creative level designs, and it these creative level designs are a reflection of the creators own skill. This is why many people fail at being a good creator cause the level they have in mind are not reflective of their skill level. Personally, I like to play Mario games the way the Japanese play them and that's by speed running it, I always like watching a good 20s time attack challenge, but i also like watching troll levels too. Ive seen so many MM stages that it impresses me to the point that I want to recreate this stuff in Minecraft.... Now not everyone is creator at heart, what make good creators are good players and in contrast what makes good players are good creators. While it is cool to see people play and beat super expert levels that utilize some cool tech, but I do find it annoying that some super expert level have that dumb pixel perfect spike gimmick and to me that is not any indication of a super expert level, I just call them hardcore gimmick level and that should be its own category too. Finally, i just want to end it on this note. Its not a question if Mario Maker 3 will succeed, the real question is How will it be better then its predecessor MM2. This is the dilemma here, every game comes with its own set of problems and this hold especially true for the sandbox creative ones. If MM3 is radically different then MM2 and they didn't build it off of that foundation it will be seen as a massive mistake, and the best example I have here is the Pokémon games cause majority of pokefans out all agree that the transition to gen 5(2D) to gen6 (3D) was a big mistake...
I like a lot of this but honestly the playtime gimmick sounds... eh. I mean, I assume that at least in the case of Mario Maker, unlike a singleplayer game, there'd be a hidden code you can input somewhere to get instant access to the more complex level editor, but in the context of other games it just seems weird, plus the easiest way to get stuff like that is just to leave the game open while you sleep. As a Bloons TD player trust me while there's a good way to do a grind, it should NOT be done in a big online game like this (Battles 2 feels like it's back on the rise tbh but still) 13:00 good music choice 14:11 i guess that too so yeah overall i think you make a good point but im not big on the playtime thing as it is described here
Thats fair as long as Nintendo finds a way to fix this issue (assuming they know about it) Im fine with however they choose to go about it. It doesnt have to be the locked behind play time though I still think they could do some interesting stuff with rewards for playing x amount of time
Beginner mode and Advanced mode Beginner mode is the standard Mario Maker Advanced mode is Mario Maker but its more like scratch, being able to create music, coustom movments for players and enemies, etc.
mm3 should learn from the gd editor edit: plz dont make it so u need tons of hours to play the supercool editor, like imagine u go play mm3 knowing about the new better editor but u have to play 500 hours of the game to finally get what u paid for, dont turn the game into what a mobile game'd do Would be better to put it behind a tutorial or smth
I never thought about the main problem being the simplicity. Like yeah it was obvious the younger audience would be the reason but I didn't realize just how bad it was And I REALLY like the Idea of the Advanced Maker mode, since it keeps kids able to do simpler stuff But I'm not sure if I agree with rewards being linked to hours. That just sounds like an unnecessary grind for everyone involved. Sure, the data linking softens the blow, but this kind of stuff isn't really something that people tend to like to begin with, so I'm not sure about that Maybe locking it behind the story mode could work better! Or have some requirement that's a little more interesting than just "Play the game for a long while" Good video either way! Was definitely very interesting to watch :)
At this point we should have a new LBP (Little Big Planet) because those games gave you so much to work with, seriously I remember someone literally remade the Game of Life and Deadspace. seriously I want LBP to come back to see some incredible levels from the players. (Also because we haven't gotten a mainline game in a decade now and all the servers for LBP3 PS4 are shut down)
Let me know what you all think of my idea. Also how would fix this problem of Mario Maker being too babied down?
i feel like there should just be a toggle between normal and advanced, not an hours grind. i personally wouldn't want to grind out playtime with limited features for a MAKER game just to get to the meat of the game. i've had mario maker 2 since December 2019, and i still only have 650-700 hours.
instead, maybe you could unlock it after playing a certain number of levels, making a certain number of levels, or by beating something like story mode.
Bro this idea would fix the Mario maker concept and system ngl
idk i haven't played it for like half a year or something like that idk lol
i feel like SMM3 should be more like a LBP type game, with the ability to customize your character, custom NPCS, and logic-inspired features.
Buddy, if unlocking stuff is gonna be tied to the hours played I'm just gonna leave my Switch on. It's just gonna be an annoying roadblock for me who works 10 hours a day. I literally only have 100 hours in mario maker 2 since launch just because I have other things going on in my life. Plus basically hiding features behind playtime from kids when the game is made FOR kids just feels extremely wrong to me. Well made video and all, but I disagree harshly.
Agreed, and even then, I don't want to wait multiple weeks just to use the advanced mode.
I would much rather have levels be classified by difficulty, much like in Geometry Dash, and have to beat any level of a certain difficulty.
@saltendo2177 I think just not locking up the advanced mode is the best solution. Little Timmy levels might become worse, but we just gotta accept the fact that 3 year olds also like making things
Worst idea I’ve ever heard in any video, we should not have to wait a set number of hours playing a game just to unlock the rest of the features, that was one of the biggest flaws in Super Mario Maker One 💀
The hour system would be really terrible. Locking features behind time played would upset so many people, very few people have time like that, the majority should not have features locked from them. All this would encourage is exploiting the system by leaving the game running to unlock the "hidden features".
There are so many better ways to approach this issue, Nintendo themselves already uses a system to address the casual creator VS avid creator issue. They address it by keeping all of the course parts barebones, which makes things simple for casual creators, but making course parts interact with each other, which makes things customizable for avid creators. More interaction between parts expands possibilities exponentially.
However, with that said, there are DEFINITELY some features requested to be added by avid creators (even some in this video, like invisible scroll stop) that wouldn't be able to be added with that design philosophy.
would → should; themselves !→ uses: 2 != 1; VS → vs.; DEFINITELY → _definitely_
@@alysdexia maaan
bro doesn't know how long 500 hours is
that's like 21 days
Like, that's almost 21 days. Of playing non-stop. I say 100 hours is better, that would be just 4 days of playing non-stop. And it would also be better for marketing.
Yea...thinking back on it Id say 200-250 is much more feasible to most players
@@jhsonbi5914 what is wrong with you?
@@eiadithecoder620 21 days while i saw the video 21 hours ago
I think the lack of updates was the game's biggest issue. There's plenty that you can do in the game already. Not having custom auto scroll in subareas is one of those nitpicks that don't really hurt the game. People have been asking for more parts and game styles more than anything.
True no custom autoscroll in the sub world is a rather small problem but a 100 small problems make 1 big
problem is my point
They need to add waluigi to make it successful
Yeah mario maker needs him more than smash does
Preach King! 🗣️🔥
Waluigi never appear in mario mainline or never own video game but regular character only in mario spin off.
Yeah no
@@William_Oswald1 maker is a spin off
i love advanced maker mode as an idea but i HATE the idea of having to unlock it. it should be available from the start
It needing playtime to unlock as well is one of the worst ideas I've heard of. It would just encourage the diehard fans to leave their switch on afk to unlock these features.
@@liammccartney6754 Yeah agreed, I used to play Mario Maker 2 and have around 40 levels (few of them published but still) and have like 150 hours. That's wack if you had to have 500 hours just to have unlimited check points
i → I; HATE → _hate;_ should → ouht
@@alysdexia
Hey, can you stop "correcting" people?
Typing "HATE" instead of "hate" adds feeling. It means they really really hate it.
@@josecorzo5517 serial capitals are for acronýms. I wrote _hate,_ not hate. Also there was only one person so no they.
Maybe 3 maker tiers would work. Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced. Or just do what they did in SMM1 where you unlock more as you play.
like they change the ui or add new options based on the tier?
There’s no SMM1. would → should
@@alysdexia Bro shut up, you are in so many comments on this video thinking you are correcting them but you are doing it wrongly, and in your reply’s besides this one, you just put a bunch of random symbols that you think people will understand exactly how and what you are falsely correcting, and then you also claim with such confidence that there is no SMM1 like what are you, 7? Do you think Mario maker 1 doesn’t exist because you don’t have it? You haven’t seen it? Why would Mario maker 2 have a 2 if it was the first game? You absolute bafoon!
Locking content behind playtime is stupid. Period.
Understandable. Have a nice day
Lmao Im kidding but in all seriousness though I can see the issues it would bring up. If they wanted to keep things simple they could just make it a toggle or feature you unlock after a campaign or tutorial.
The closest we have to Super Mario Maker 3 is Mario Multiverses, but good luck getting access to it without having to hire a computer exorcist.
Overrated Mario fangame, I am not gonna lie. I don't understand the hype at all. There are way better options and underrated fangames out there that everyone should check out.
@zelhimself i would like to know what these other fangames are
@@TerraKnight27 SMBX, Unimaker, SM4J... The list goes on. You can even check out Super Mario Construct, which is built-in as a website.
@zelhimselfI would also like to know what these fangames are.
Gatekeeping a feature like that is a bad game design overall. Imagine not being able to properly play the game just because you don't pick it that frequently (sounds kinda familiar). Obviously this is not a FOMO feature since it will always be there, but I think that they should do the same as they did for obtaining the hammer power up in SM3D, complete the campaign.
Yea, Im not opposed to a just a simpler solution like completing a campaign or tutorial or just having it be a toggle from the get go
I feel like the coursemaker should be more like the geometry dash one since geometry dash didnt update for 7 years and it still had interisting AF levels being made
My biggest issue with Mario Maker 2 was the Super Mario 3D World game style. It removes so many things from the other four styles, and makes me not want to build a level in the 3D World style. The item exclusions are so baffling, like, why can’t you stack enemies in that style despite the fact that Goomba Stacks exist in 3D World?! Why is only Meowser able to be selected, but not normal Bowser?! Why can’t the day/night cycle be there? 3D World had some night time levels for crying out loud! I’m not saying the Angry Sun should be there, but the night time theme should at least be there!
The item exclusions got so bad that I ended up scrapping a cool idea I had for a 3D World level, but I had to scrap it because it didn’t have the Dotted Line Blocks (this was before the version 3.0 update), and by the time they were finally added to the 3D World style, the level was already deleted because I thought they’d never add the Dotted Line Blocks to that style.
Anyways my point is, I really hope the 3D World game style gets fixed in Mario Maker 3. I don’t mind it having some exclusive power ups, but it shouldn’t remove important course elements like One Way Doors, Night Theme, or Tracks
I think it’d be cool if SMM3 was more of a coding type thing, like GBG but with a Mario coat of paint.
I dont know if they'd go that far unless it was strictly meant for older audiences but it would be cool
That would suck.
At this point just make super mario coding or something i feel this is taking a step too far for a game about placing stuff and see what you manage to make
I believe mario maker 2 doesn't feel fun because it feels dead. There's just no more updates. It would be really great if Nintendo could just keep updating the dang game instead of discontinuing it and making another sequel years later. All they gotta do is just keep slowly adding more items to the game and maybe some bigger features here and there, and we wouldn't even need mario maker 3.
0:38 your game of libraries? Huh?
Absolutely agree, bar a few things. Infinite sub worlds, space, limitations, etc. is gonna take up a lot of space. Smash Bros is an example of this with its stage builder. And if the online multiplayer mode wasnt bad enough already!
1:31 Why does this part look like a "I will fix you're Life in 2 Milliseconds" type of Video
You should try Geometry Dash, it has level editor, and it has barely any limits, you can literally make a 3D engine inside of the GD editor.
I played GD years ago actually but theres just something about making Mario levels thats so satisfying...the Mario bias is really kicking in
8:50 is when he starts talking about the solution.
I get working for this advanced maker would make a whole a lot of sense, and this is just going to encourage people to keep playing. That is good, but one issue is that it would include bad types of players such as the little timmies. Not only that, but types of numbers like 250 and 500 is just way too much work for a casual player. I will say that it is not impossible, as they would make it if they are dedicated players, but even then, it does not fix the issue for garbage levels and would just upset the playerbase for having to work so much. A harder and tolerable condition would better.
I do agree the game still has its limitations and there should be more options, but at the same time, you have to consider what options should be necessarily available, and what kinds of limitations should there be. Stuff like infinite checkpoints does sound nice, but one thing is if someone really needs way too many checkpoints. You definitely should have a limitation on checkpoints and limitations on other things, which was something that I do not think I heard in the video.
I agree a little that Mario Maker having all these themes would make Mario Maker feel much more fun. In fact, with infinite level possibilities, the only thing that makes certain levels look interesting is the gimmicks. The same music, the same themes, it gets stale. As for what I'd say make the game worse (and yes, I'm gonna sound petty).
1. the editor features, you could group this in the babify'd category but there's nothing like a fill tool, no line drawing, features like copying getting WORSE than the first game. Everything like blocks, enemies (which must be placed down one at a time) MUST be placed in the exact same way, no other way to place it.
A game where it's more fun to make levels is Super Mario Bros X, which has a lot more features in the editor, you can place water, lava, easily set timers, and while there is a lot of themes, it's these small things that make editing much more fun. Hell, in that game you could straight up code physics for things like blocks, while Nintendo doesn't need to go that far, they at least can make the editor a bit more fun to use.
2. the level uploading, (which you kinda pointed out and Ceave Gaming pointed out in his Level Headed video). I know people will say I'm being petty, but it's a bigger issue to me, it's not really encouraging making a level, uploading it and barely anyone playing it. As the creator, I know all the secrets, all the sections hell I even clear checked it from the beginning, I want someone else to play it and leave a comment on it. It sounds like I'm hating on my own levels when I'm not, I'm saying that I want others to play it.
3. The Switch Online, the Switch 2 is confirmed to have Switch Online which I see ruining the game and no, I'm not being over dramatic with this. A thing that made the original Wii U game much better is the fact that I can upload levels from the get-go, the game (iirc it's like $44) is the only thing I pay for. On Switch however, I have to pay $80 for the game, and then $30 every year for Nintendo Switch Online, the bill adds up fast and can be a turn off.
I will never forgive Nintendo for giving us undo dog but not redo dog 🐶. They could really learn a thing or two from fan made games.
When it comes to levels being uploaded I think its a matter of the easier your level, the more likely it'll get played which is unfortunate because a lot of really good levels will require some trial and error and many wont have the patience for that so the level doesnt get pushed out. Its why the popular tab is filled with refreshing and hold right speedrun levels
Unfortunately, I have around 2,500 or more mario maker hours across all of my accounts! Oops 😬
Imagine flexing your Mario Maker hours
wait...
Personally I think if it was similar to a game like geometry dash, it could be very robust and interesting. In that game, there are endless options and no limitations. If its more of the same, I think it would die within 2 years
Nintendo MUST see this, I’ve had this issue when playing SMM2 and usually just end up playing some random levels instead. If a SMM3 comes out, this would definitely be an issue to fix! Great video 👍
I enjoyed this video.
I agree with your main point of more customizability being better than brand-new parts, however, locking an edit mode, the feature of the brand-new SMM game, behind play hours would be absurd. About the "Advanced Edit," it's good, although there is an advantage of limiting creators. It allows players to more easily predict and understand a course they are playing, as it has rules and limitations; such are very important for Super Expert and Multiplayer Versus players. The limiting editor may be annoying, but it forces creators to overcome limitations in a creative way, and I love that.
That is 100% true. Uno Mas levels are the biggest example of that but then Nintendo will decide to take them down which is ridiculous
It felt like in SMM2 they were afraid of people experimenting and having fun! It felt so much more restrictive than SMM1, despite having so many more items, and I think you perfectly explained why
I think the real biggest problem with some of the new MM2 items is that they lack interactions with other items (looking at you 3d world), which means their use is super limited. I don't think just adding more options to everything really fixes this issue, instead what I'd like to see is a bigger focus on items like on/off blocks or seesaws that have a load of different ways to be used.
This would also allow then to appeal to both advanced and basic players: for example, to a basic player, a seesaw can just be used as a more difficult platform, but to an advanced player it can be used to measure weight, launch other objects, put other objects at very specific Y levels etc.
I dont think objects lack interactions but most of those interactions are unintentional by the devs. Uno Mas levels are a prime example of the many unintentional ways things in this game work together but because they're unintentional, they get taken down. So not only did they not give us intentional ways of objects interacting with each other but the ways we have found have been taken down. Your point is also one thats valid. Mine and yours actually play into each other if that makes sense
I swear if the online in 3 has an unfair, brutal ranking system just like 2 does...
i think that they can just have an option for which level maker to use so that new players can still use the advanced maker, but not be overwhelmed by it if they dont want to.
This video makes many wonderful points, but there are two flaws that I noticed in your section about the solution
1: If you have enough hours in Mario Maker 2 and then automatically pass the level cap in Mario Maker 3 due to those hours, that doesn't confirm you know the ins and outs of the Mario Maker 3 course creator, just the Mario Maker 2 course creator. This can be solved simply, though, just significantly lower the cap to get into advanced maker mode depending on your hours in Maker 2 with, lets say 2 hours being the lowest it will go.
2: The much bigger issue is that we're still limited to Nintendo's creativity. One thing I want to do is to create a mushroom forest where Mario platforms in. Baren orange rocks where grass can't grow, small 1-UP and Super Mushrooms sprouting from the ground, the hyphae traveling deep within. Massive mushrooms loom over the forest, casting the wasteland in shadow. Whoops! Daddy Nintendo said 'Nuh-uh' so I've just got to make a desert. It is more efficient for me to learn how to code games myself than to wait for Nintendo to get creative. I guess a solution would be to have a suggestion box feature. Every month or couple of months, Nintendo can poll the playerbase for the new feature they would like to see and impliment it into Mario Maker 3. The only issue is that this would keep players in the "honeymoon" phase for a very long time, and would make critiquing the game much harder.
Instead of hours, we should use Maker Points instead. That would encourage players to use the standard mode and get creative with it (and upload it)
Then, they can be rewarded for their creativity with even more things to use
I had played a bit of MM1, then even thought i played LOTS OF FANGAMES of Mario Maker... It felt limiting. Until in 2024 i stumbled with lunar magic, at first i thought it was a bit more complex than the usual one with the LITERAL limitations of the SNES, then i experimented and i saw that there was no limit, YES, i had to research for a lot of tutorials of some things, but i think it was worth it. Even thought i could make the usual grassy field, there was also the options to do mountains of desert, being in space, a forest in the sky, thinder over a swamp, but also add hammer bros, make yoshi playable by changing sprites, changing the physics of goombas, add new powerups, a custom overworld, and a whole lot more. I have been doing a bit of levels and eventually i will finish the game, however, i probably will take my time so at least it's not hot garbage, and rather, at worst, just boring, which is bad, but not terrible... if you're young, i do not recommend doing it in Lunar magic, but if you know coding, especially for snes, then it is ok, i don't know a lot of code, and it is still fun. (If you do not want to worry about anything, forget about it because from experience, it is a whole world of problems like bugs, sprite limits, bad code, crash, etc.)
Just an opinion, i honestly don't recommend it unless you crave so much for new things.
Edit: I said 2023, it was 2024.
I hate how much stuff is stuck in level theme (either game style
Or background). I want to have water/lava/poison in every theme. Or have the exclusive enemies in other themes. Plus, separating the main 4 and 3d world styles was so stupid because the 3d world style had so little content. I also hate that every castle has to end with the axe, I wish we could say the level is complete with a boss. I also wish we could have longer levels and decide what items can be globally loaded. I hope MM3 is more customizable because I agree with the point you made about the lack of customizability.
Probably that might cure my maker's block!
I like the idea of an advanced maker mode. I think it would be better to never have it locked, but sort of hide it and slowly reveal it:
Maybe you could find an option to enable it in less obvious area, like Yamamura's Dojo. But also, maybe the game could give you popups revealing it once you reach certain milestones, like playtime, or maker points, or courses played.
This way it's still available from the start if the player is dedicated (less likely for younger audiences to find) while younger players can find it once they have more experience, while older players eventually find it too.
The advanced mode should allow you more control over themes, camera, and physics. I also think they could make more interesting clear conditions like no running or no pressing right.
Imo the problem with locking it behind playtime is that it can be somewhat cheesed, and lots of people would quit due to not wanting to play for that long.
Thats another way to go about it that could also work
SMM3 will need to take notes from the SMM:WE fangame (that yes, even though the fangame is janky it has many ideas that SMM2 doesn’t) and I’m not talking about just a couple extra items. I’m talking about customization, elementals and add-ons are a great feature that only SMM:WE have
This is gonna sound stupid but the biggest problem for me is not being able to spin jump with items in Mario world style
Normally I should have 1995 hours of games but... 6 months ago my console no longer wanted to charge so I sent it for after-sales service. and since they reset my console for repair, some of my game hours were reset to 0... I still have my saves thanks to the clouds but now it's only showing 5H on the game while I have at least 80 level on my account.
When I saw that the hours of some games were reset, it pissed me off.
Mari0 AE is actually just mm3, it's so extremely customizable
Have an option that lets you do a simpler version with less stuff or a more advanced version but is harder to understand
i personally stopped playing the game because the actual course maker was too cumbersome as compared to the first game. the lack of a stylus made creating feel tedious and uncomfortable!
They need to not cut support a year in
Maybe you dont find that much enjoyment in playing mario Maker 2 anymore because you've played it for almost 2000 hours.
Oh no, I still really love playing the game. It's probably my favorite one which is why I want to see MM3 be successful and not end up the way 2 did
To serve as devils advocate:
More options would spell alienation. I can see people getting overwhelmed by the number of options and needing to have to learn all these options.
More options could work, but it would need to be introduced to the player at an ideal pace so they aren't overwhelmed. Could be through drip feeding new unlocks to the player.
Nintendo would have no choice but to gimp the editor experience because nintendo wants levels to maintain a certain level of quality that can't become "broken", like restricting tracks overlapping checkpoints, multiple sub maps, etc.
Even if hot garbage exists, it's at least not broken hot garbage.
A big issue that comes with advanced mode is that the validation steps to sibmit a level could be much more complicated. Suddently there's more niche bugs that players could find and exploit to validate their level for submission. Its possible to handle it, but its a greater workload on nintendo that could be unsustainable.
I think I could see the advanced mode working if players can only play advanced levels if they have unlocked the mode themselves.
For returning players to unlock the mode earlier, it just needs to be a cheat code. Ideally keep it simple.
500 is way to high tbh, maybe 100 hours
Yea thinking back on it Id say 200-250 personally. I was wayyy over my head with 500
I absolutely disagree with hard locking content behind play time, ESPECIALLY if it’s just advanced features in Mario Maker. The playtime I get is directly correlated with how much enjoyment I can get out of it in the immediate time I want to access things. If I keep seeing people online talking about all the cool new features they have access to when they’re at 500 hours while I’m sitting at 50 because my content was limited and lost my interest quickly, I’m not even going to play or for long enough to access anything new.
A better option would just be to make it an Advanced Mode toggle that is unlocked after completing a campaign that teaches the basic mode, then unlock another campaign that explains the advanced features. It’s directly correlated to completion of learning objectives, NOT how much time I wasted to do so. If I can finish the whole campaign in 30 minutes then I expect to have access to more complex features right away, because I’m obviously knowledgeable enough to deal with the more complex stuff.
It should also easily be possible to switch in and out of advanced editing mode with a single button once you’ve activated it for the first time, so kids can still just use the simpler system.
I also think you need to take a moment to consider the average amount of time somebody actually had available in a day. People are supposed to get 8 hours of sleep, and if you’re working full time at 40 hours a week on weekdays only, that’s 8 more hours each weekday. Adding commute time and getting ready for the day, as well as making food when you’re home, most people are looking at less than 6 hours left over. That would take 83 days, or a total of over 2 and a half months if we assume they don’t play on weekends, and if they play ONLY on weekends for 16 hours straight, you’re still going to be looking at 15-16 weeks before you’ve hit enough. Even combining the 6 hours a weekday WITH 16 hours every weekend, you’re STILL looking at 8 weeks before you’ve hit enough time played to access features that experienced people should be able to get access to as soon as they want to.
9:00
Ewwww, I can smell you all the way over here! /silly
😅
What I think Mario Maker 3 needs is for the game styles to work like how they do in their original appearance.
For example, in the original Super Mario World, you could spin jump on pretty much everything. Can't do that in Mario Maker. And there's still a lot of things missing as well, which I don't really understand. The game styles are almost all the same and lots of stuff is missing.
Geometry dash is also geared to a younger audience and the geometry dash level editor is kinda crazy. Hundreds of thousands of objects, technical items etc. most importantly, nothing is locked to the player and i can promise you that no one has ever complained that its too complicated for kids. Locking things behind playtime in smm3 would be very unnecessary and the majority of people who will play maker 3 are ones that probably also played maker 2. and babying those players actually makes the problem youre trying to fix worse.
Thats a good point. I didnt even take into consideration GD but it does have a large player base despite how technical it can get.
What I didnt mention is that they could always just make it a toggle from the start which would be the way to make everyone happy
"wait a long time to unlock stuff" nintendo learned to not do that after mario maker 1
This video reminds me of how creative the Geometry Dash editor is and how it’s not like this at all.
This is the reason people play more of those fanmade mario maker games than the normal mario maker because they always are VERY ADVANCED
The only part I REALLY disagree with is the 500 hours thing. That's almost _21_ days STRAIGHT just to unlock a feature that you should've had access to from the start. An idea similar to this was literally one of people's biggest complaints about Mario Maker 1.
I think the Advanced Course Maker should be available immediately, since having both options would fix the babied down issue. Have a simplified version of the creator that little kids could use or that inexperienced builders could use, and have an advanced mode for players who want to have more freedom without having their hands held; both options would increase the playtime of this game by a lot.
I think the unlocking the advanced mode is flawed.
1. People are just gonna farm it and leave their switch on. At that point if you can just do that, what's the point of the feature?
2. 500 hours is A LOT, I used to play SMM2 alot and only have less than 200 hours. People like me aren't the best at making levels (I usually make them for myself/family & friends) but I would like to use those features, I think everyone would love infinite checkpoints.
3. People are probably gonna be burnt out before they even get the advanced mode. Like you said yourself you wouldn't want to play another 500 hours of a barebones mode and so i think people have the same mindset are either gonna (A) get burnt out and drop the game before 500 hours (B) repeat of my first point.
I don't think having stuff unlocked behind playtime itself is bad. Like your Zelda example I think it's fine to have a item in a sandbox adventure game to show your hours but I think having a mode in your Level Creation game is a very bad idea as probably most of your level makers are gonna be locked out of the feature. Overall still a good a video.
I think they could just make more hidden stuff, interactions and customization like the Weird Mario in Maker 1 or being inside the wall that was used to make the crossy road minigame and less limitations in general. i don't think the 500 hours idea is even necessairy
I've said this before, and I'll say it again...
Just. Play. Levelhead.
It has everything mario maker doesn't, and it's only a few dollars on steam. AND the game itself has a lot of personality.
Congratulations, you played this game for 1000 hours instead of going outside
Was basically me 😤
boy is SMBX2 the platform for you
True
I just wish we could make levels longer. I'll start making a level, and then I'll run out of space to evolve the challenge.
Also, more sub worlds would be nice.
We desperately need theme customization as well. It could create incredibly good looking levels if you could choose the colors of the blocks, the music, and the background separately. We wouldn't be stuck with un-inspired looking levels. We would have inspired game play and looks together instead.
Amazing video! I do have a few opinions about it though.
Although the problem you mentioned is very real, the solution might be one of the worst ideas I've heard. First of all, there are so many casual players who might just want to try a new building style but don't want to spend 500 hours playing. Like there's no way you need to play for that long to get more than one sub-area. However, the real issue with this solution is that the way that most people will unlock advanced mode is by leaving their switch on while being AFK, which obviously sucks. What I would do is either have advanced mode unlocked from the beginning, or you would need to do something such as completing the story mode. Another thing I would do is add something like triggers from geometry dash where you could do stuff such as moving blocks without tracks. This is what let GD survive almost 7 years without an update, and it should hopefully work in MM3 too. The game also needs to find a way to reward good levels because I think other than the lack of updates, what killed MM2 is the slop levels (generic speedruns and refreshing levels). Take one look at the popular tab and the top ten are probably all these types of levels. Maybe they could add level contests but they would be hard to judge as millions of people are likely to buy the new Mario Maker and Little Timmy is gonna submit "Boswer Hapy Sity Wurld".
If you read all of that, thanks
Yes having it being unlocked through a campaign or from the beginning would 100% be the way to make most of the community happy. Guess I should have said "what a solution could be" cause theres definitely a lot of other ways to handle it. I just hope Nintendo can actually realize what the issue is to begin with
locking an advanced maker mode behind hours played doesn't sound great, people cant spend that much time in a game in less than a year, that would make really experienced players with little to no free time have no chance at using that mode
although i do remember in mario maker 1 you had to put a certain amount of parts or wait a certain tiny bit amount of time to have new features unlocked which i think was a niche idea but in the end it's not perfect
what would be perfect is to reintroduce the way you unlock parts in mm2, by playing in story mode
get this, there would be 2 different story mode, one where you unlock the basic stuff, a relatively easy gamemode, and one where the levels are way harder but are made using unique features unlockable after beating these levels
unlocking unique parts and other customization options could also be done by simply having a certain number of maker points, I know this sounds a bit cheesy since most creators that gets lots of maker points are those who make the already seen and boring kaizo, speedrun and refreshing levels and people who make actually good level don't have many likes, but honestly how else do you expect to get advanced maker?
on paper an advanced maker mode sounds amazing, but the way to unlock it is difficult to think of, if nintendo ever creates mario maker 3 with an advanced maker mode, they will most likely find a way to introduce an unlock method for it
Once again proving that "Creativity thrives on limitations" doesn't always apply. Sometimes, limitations only hinder creativity.
500 hours? That’s an eternity. I could master an entirely new language instead
while the hour idea sounds fine on paper, i feel like it'd be better to just simply have two course maker modes from the get-go. standard, which is the barebones creator we have now, and advanced which includes all those complex features like you said. this way, people who are not used to (or just lazy) making levels they can stick to the standardized version, but if people want to take a step further or become more advanced they can use the advanced mode to really experiment with their creativity. i don't think little timmies getting their hands on this huge utopia on customization is a big deal anyway, since they're bound to happen no matter what. and hell, they probably wouldn't even have the patience to experiment with all the advanced features either, so they might not even be that worse from the normal slopfests. said slopfests might not even be seen that much since there'd be a big influx in unique and creative levels being made with the developmental freedom. yeah yeah, every other comment said something along the lines, but i just like to hear the sound of my own voice because i'm a filthy narcissist. (PLAY SMBX2!)
Yea, I mean that would realistically be the way to handle it that would upset the least amount of players. Just having the 2 modes available at once
9:06
“9,999.” I think endless really made my switch find an end.
500 hours is stupid. Lock it behind story mode or maker points
I would just be happy if they gave SMM3 what SMM had: some _flare_ and character. Like interacting with the title screen, or shaking things to get different things, or *the mystery mushroom SMM2 I still don't forgive you for removing the best feature-*
6:46 It's SPIKE! : )
Ironic that you say locking the advanced mode behind 500 hours will bring in more advanced players when it will do the very opposite
Nintendo just isn't a fan of options, so I don't personally see this happening. On the other hand, this would give the creator of Super Mario Bros X to sue Nintendo, imagine that; Nintendo getting sued by their own fans for once.
They'd be right up there with Mojang lmao
My Nintendo Switch says I have 9999 hours in SMM2, but my last major update elements stills have the "!" label because I haven't used them yet on my own levels
There just isn’t enough depth in its tools. The game heavily punishes experimentation.
Locking stuff behind playtime is a HORRIBLE idea and all it would be is inflate the playtime numbers for everybody with literally no other benefit other than forcing people to wait to unlock theoretically interesting features. Have it unlocked from the start, or, better idea, just have the game be constantly updated at a more frequent rate with new stuff.
A bit of an unrealistic wish, but i feel like they could add a game style maker, and it woudl last for at least two years after it was added. Everything they would need is even in Mario Paint, Wario Ware DIY, and Game Builder Garage unless you want to work with 3D models
The Problem Is That It Is Hard To Make An Update Were Everyone Is Happy. For Example Let's Take Minecraft 6:25 Hardcore Players Are Complaining About The Recovery Compass Is Yousless In Hardcore
Yeah I’m never gonna get to 500 hours in Mario maker
😭
I feel like a better way to handle it would be having the advanced mode be just the default maker mode
I really like this take about having more option, the 250 hours thing is a weird idea imo, when if you play a new smm game you want to get to the new cool not in 250 hours grind, ofc you have an fix for this but well older player may try the new game and some people which didn't grind that much could want to test the new stuff, and 250 hours is a lot not everyone is a creator there is casual players.
Yes, the only category of players that wouldnt benefit from this would be older players who havent played MM2 which I haven't thought of something for that lol. But as long as Nintendo finds away to fix this "lack of options" issue, I'll take it
500 hours requirement? I only have 150 on 2 and that's high for me
I understand it needs to be hard but I don't think you understand how obsurd that requirement is without me just leaving my switch on for a month even if they took my mm2 hours into consideration
the only reason i stopped playing smm2 is because of THE STUPID COURSE LIMIT ARFEOFEOWFIJEWOIF JUST LET ME MAKE AS MANY COURSES AS I WANT I DONT WANNA DELETE COURSES JUST TO MAKE NEW ONES FEHWGOIEHGFOEIFJOEF
They introduced super worlds and really thought 100 course limit was enough for that 😭
@@jhsonbi5914 yeah, ONE FULL SUPER WORLD TAKES UP ALMOST HALF OF YOUR SPACE 😭😭😭
Bold of you to assume I have a Switch and Mario Maker 2
Well I had both of those things, until I realised I only play Mario Maker 1
I dont see the problem with hot garbagw being made in advanced mode. Does needing to use a star to go through 200 instead of 100 enemies really make a difference? Does having to navigate through a maze of 20 pipes instead of 10 make a difference? Bad levels are always gonna exist, so focussing on enabling absolutely amazing levels to made makes a lot of sense. Removing those amazing levels for the first months of the game would cause for an atrocious launch. Which is one of the worst things that can happen to a game sales-wise.
The real way to keep the game fresh is making it 3D
It should ad:
Sumo bros
Amazing flying hammer brother
Charging chuck
Blue Bowser
Being free
Being free 💀
Idk I honestly don't care how many kids make hot garbage, I'd rather that than waiting (and I'm pretty sure if Nintendo did do this idea, they would not go so far as the data linking thing so we'd all be starting over anyway).
I hated the time-based unlocks in Super Mario Maker 1. I cheesed them by changing the Wii U's time, but still it was tedious and I feel like I should have had access to everything from the start.
The hot garbage makes for great content anyway. The better solution for people who want to avoid that is just giving us a filter that prioritizes levels with more likes than boos.
As someone who didnt know about MM1 until I played MM2 (dont ask me how thats possible l 💀) I didn't realize that they had time based unlocks in that game. I honestly thought it was something they hadnt done before but since they have and the reception was seemingly negative I would have thought of a different solution.
what makes you think you're getting a 3rd mario maker anyway
Well its not a 0% chance so Ill take those odds
I think the issues are really apparent in Super Worlds. Like if I could design my own toad house minigames like the ones in NSMB Wii that would be really cool. Also an option to just ditch the tile system, draw your own background and put the map lines over it would be nice. They really need to bring back something like the Mario Paint mouse accessory for the next Mario Maker. I’d play the hell out of Mario Maker if I didn’t have to build with a controller if I want to play on my TV. Or just make the game compatible with any old computer mouse. Almost everyone has one now.
The Answer to your 2nd question @1:14 is, "Make levels that are fun for you to play." I say this as someone whos never played any of the Mario makers games but has watched a ton of MM1 and 2 content. If your treating the MM game like its a business model and your in it to finically profit on the free labor that other people put in the game well lets just say thats a good reason why nintendo is watching. They not here to listen to your ideas cause they know, THEY KNOW YOUR HEART IS IN THE WRONG PLACE (not medically but metaphorically), and it is this reason why there is limitation to the framework at which what you can do in Mario Maker. Understand they making this game for our collective enjoyment...
This isnt rocket science, but there is a dynamic here that is very unique to Mario games that many other games wish they have and its the longevity of the Mario game... Mario comes from very simple 16bit beginnings and has age very well through the decades which means there is a trove of people out there with so much talent and skill for the game that the MM series is a great place to show case the collective talent that is out there. This here is what you need to focus on.
This is where Creators come in, cause it take a very talented creator to create a very creative level designs, and it these creative level designs are a reflection of the creators own skill. This is why many people fail at being a good creator cause the level they have in mind are not reflective of their skill level. Personally, I like to play Mario games the way the Japanese play them and that's by speed running it, I always like watching a good 20s time attack challenge, but i also like watching troll levels too. Ive seen so many MM stages that it impresses me to the point that I want to recreate this stuff in Minecraft....
Now not everyone is creator at heart, what make good creators are good players and in contrast what makes good players are good creators. While it is cool to see people play and beat super expert levels that utilize some cool tech, but I do find it annoying that some super expert level have that dumb pixel perfect spike gimmick and to me that is not any indication of a super expert level, I just call them hardcore gimmick level and that should be its own category too.
Finally, i just want to end it on this note. Its not a question if Mario Maker 3 will succeed, the real question is How will it be better then its predecessor MM2. This is the dilemma here, every game comes with its own set of problems and this hold especially true for the sandbox creative ones. If MM3 is radically different then MM2 and they didn't build it off of that foundation it will be seen as a massive mistake, and the best example I have here is the Pokémon games cause majority of pokefans out all agree that the transition to gen 5(2D) to gen6 (3D) was a big mistake...
I like a lot of this but honestly the playtime gimmick sounds... eh. I mean, I assume that at least in the case of Mario Maker, unlike a singleplayer game, there'd be a hidden code you can input somewhere to get instant access to the more complex level editor, but in the context of other games it just seems weird, plus the easiest way to get stuff like that is just to leave the game open while you sleep. As a Bloons TD player trust me while there's a good way to do a grind, it should NOT be done in a big online game like this (Battles 2 feels like it's back on the rise tbh but still)
13:00 good music choice
14:11 i guess that too
so yeah overall i think you make a good point but im not big on the playtime thing as it is described here
Thats fair as long as Nintendo finds a way to fix this issue (assuming they know about it) Im fine with however they choose to go about it. It doesnt have to be the locked behind play time though I still think they could do some interesting stuff with rewards for playing x amount of time
I think there should just be an advanced mode that you can tick on or off in the settings, kinda like the advanced settings in flipnote studio
Beginner mode and Advanced mode
Beginner mode is the standard Mario Maker
Advanced mode is Mario Maker but its more like scratch, being able to create music, coustom movments for players and enemies, etc.
mm3 should learn from the gd editor
edit: plz dont make it so u need tons of hours to play the supercool editor, like imagine u go play mm3 knowing about the new better editor but u have to play 500 hours of the game to finally get what u paid for, dont turn the game into what a mobile game'd do
Would be better to put it behind a tutorial or smth
There is already a mario maker 3
DS
preach!
I never thought about the main problem being the simplicity. Like yeah it was obvious the younger audience would be the reason but I didn't realize just how bad it was
And I REALLY like the Idea of the Advanced Maker mode, since it keeps kids able to do simpler stuff
But I'm not sure if I agree with rewards being linked to hours. That just sounds like an unnecessary grind for everyone involved. Sure, the data linking softens the blow, but this kind of stuff isn't really something that people tend to like to begin with, so I'm not sure about that
Maybe locking it behind the story mode could work better! Or have some requirement that's a little more interesting than just "Play the game for a long while"
Good video either way! Was definitely very interesting to watch :)
i have about 720 hours in mario maker
Also they should add sm64 style that would be so cool just hope it isn’t in 2d
At this point we should have a new LBP (Little Big Planet) because those games gave you so much to work with, seriously I remember someone literally remade the Game of Life and Deadspace. seriously I want LBP to come back to see some incredible levels from the players.
(Also because we haven't gotten a mainline game in a decade now and all the servers for LBP3 PS4 are shut down)
6:33 i think a better example wouldve been geometry dash, cos its more similar to mario maker 2 but it went without updates for 10 years
Its 6 years but yea i definitely agree
8:23 bro thinks mario is for kids
Nah its for ducks 🦆