Wahoo KICKR RUN: 25 More New Details!
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2024
- After yesterday’s announcement by Wahoo of the KICKR RUN, there were a boatload of questions I hadn’t covered in my first-run post/video. Some of them were minor spec things (like deck height), while others were larger ticket items.
I’m slowly working back some of the questions into my original post, but I decided to do a quick Q&A style video with most of these questions.I sent off a big list to Wahoo for ones I didn’t have answers to, and then some of of course more for me in terms of feel/etc…
1) Is there a safety plate at the back of the treadmill?
 Yes, you can see it in some of the photos/videos, but I didn’t think to specifically call it out. It runs very tightly against the back of the belt, to prevent anything (child/pet/ball/etc) from being sucked under the back of the treadmill. You can see this in the thumbnail image up above (circled).
2) What happens if you stick a towel over the time-of-flight sensor?
That sensor is used for the RunFree mode, which is the automatic mode that controls the pace merely based on your body position on the belt. It’s the marquee feature of the treadmill. Someone was curious about what would happen if you threw your towel over the console railing there. Wahoo says it’ll detect something is artificially too close, and won’t increase the speed of the treadmill.
3) Will the Wahoo SYSTM App Support Treadmill Running?
Yes. The SYSTM app already had running workouts, but Wahoo says by launch it’ll have full KICKR RUN control within it.
4) Why the 250lbs runner weight limit?
Given many other treadmills in the $2000-$3000 price ballpark have a 300lbs weight limit, a number of folks noted the somewhat low limit. Wahoo says: “The 250 pound runner weight limit is a Wahoo standard test protocol. We plan to explore increasing this specification to a higher weight limit prior to launch, but can not confirm at this time.”
As a quick reminder from my first post/video, Wahoo noted at the time that the treadmill was engineered for more than the 250lbs limit, so hopefully, Wahoo is able to accomplish what they hinted at above.
5) Will it follow gradient in structured workouts?
Wahoo says, ‘as you wish’. Specifically “The user will have the option to disable grade control in Zwift at any time (whether in a structured workout or not). In addition, the user can manually set the grade of the KICKR RUN instead of using the Zwift-controlled gradient.”
6) Do you have to use Zwift with it?
Nope. In fact, Wahoo is already talking with other 3rd party apps. Plus, there’s Wahoo’s own (free) app for control, as well as just using the treadmill without any app. Casual reminder though, Zwift Running is still actually free.
7) Will Zwift now support FTMS control on other treadmills?
While this isn’t a Wahoo question, I fielded it off to Zwift instead. And they did indeed confirm this is coming, saying “Yes, the plan is to be open and enable FTMS support for gradient control on other treadmills. We aren’t ready to commit to a timeline but we’ve been working closely with Wahoo to develop the functionality.”
Note the key word there is ‘gradient control’, which is what a lot of people are asking for. But this does fall short of ‘pace control’, which typically requires validations/certifications from a treadmill manufacturer. Hopefully, Zwift will take up other companies’ offers on that (including TechnoGym).
8) What’s the deck height of the treadmill?
This is an easy one, 30cm when flat. This is notable for people with low ceilings. Remember though to add deck height + your height + a buffer + (and this is important) any incline height.
9) What’s the exact footprint of the treadmill?
While I had included specs like belt length/etc in my initial post, I didn’t include the exact footprint specs. The unit is listed as 1.77m long x 0.94m wide x 1.4m tall., and here’s a nifty diagram showing it all:
10) Why use a belt as opposed to slats?
Here’s their quoted answer: “The slat designs are very noisy and provide a surface that is artificially compliant. We evaluated slat designs and found the excess give absorbed too much energy and did not simulate outdoor running as well as a properly designed deck. As you noticed in your testing session and videos, the KICKR RUN will be one of the quietest treadmills on the market.”
Now, obviously, people prefer different material surfaces. But I’ve long noted how I generally prefer belt treadmills over slat-based ones. Not because of cost, but simply the feeling while running. Again, to each their own. I will agree that this treadmill sounded incredibly quiet compared to the other units I have, but I do need to put them side-by-side in the same environment to validate those perceptions.
….and, I’ve hit the 5,000 character limit on UA-cam, full list is here:
www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/01/w...
#WahooKICKRUN #KICKRUN #Treadmill - Спорт
Thanks for a great discussion and especially discussion of the WARRANTY ISSUES!
Thanks!
This is an exciting prospect and think the sort thing we have been waiting for since Zwift Run started 7 years ago. Back then I did once try the Tacx Magnum which had a similar concept of speeding up by moving forwards and vice versa. That was impressive but trouble is recall that one cost well over 10K and don’t think hardly anybody bought one. I wonder if this will prompt other companies to develop similar more advanced treadmills for home users.
I know is very early days. One question I would love to know the answer is - is whether they are planning a more basic version at a lower price point? A la the Kickr bike trainers. I imagine if they could produce one a thousand or more $’s less, but without say the side to side movement, and lower top speed and max gradient - this could tap a lot more consumers. $5k is a big outlay for private consumers (as opposed to gyms etc). Thanks Ray.
Ive been in your 82% too long. You all say it so much it does not register but thanks to the stats and guilt related too them today I realize I value your info. Sorry it took me so long but honestly you needed to do things like show graphs and guilt me into it so I guess we are even? Well played. 😉
Haha…data for the guilt tripping win! 🤣
I have to admit, this treadmill looks amazing. Come on Lotto ticket (that I didn't buy) don't fail me now. 🤞🏻
Made me chuckle, thanks 😂
This treadmill is a gamechanger. I am really regretting my expensive treadmill purchase last year. I would have waited it out if I knew this was coming out.
Super cool tech covered in a fantastic, honest and intriguing way. THANK YOU! Now I have to start saving...
Huge kudos for being able to get the exclusive on this launch. Appreciate these videos. Cheers.
Please make a “Holy Crap Cool” shirt
Hahaha
My husband and I were ready to buy one until the warranty info. 😢 Thanks for the update!
This treadmill is exactly what the industry of high performance treadmills needs. Nordictrack and Woodway have been a little stuck in their ways for quite a while, like Ray said in this video. So many new features from Wahoo on a model that is competitively priced. I agree they need to really "stick the landing" on this first launch, and improve that warranty. But hopefully it shakes up (wakes up) the treadmill industry overall.
I feel they could have really stuck it to nordic track had they been able to squeeze a bit more incline out of it!
I have been waiting and dreaming of new treadmill tech for 3 years and couldn't wait any longer. Just over a month ago and bought a Nordictrack x22i. I like it a lot. However, this is exactly what I was waiting and hoping for over the last 3 years. I have buyers remorse and wish this would've come about 6 months sooner.
sell it, it's still keeps it's value haha
This looks mighty impressive. I happen to be in the treadmill market in the next 8 months or so, so the timing is ideal. My last was a Landice purchased about 20+ years ago for $2200, so I know a good treadmill is expensive. I think this will foot the bill. Was thinking of a self-powered curved one, but decided not to go that direction. Just have to convince the girlfriend this is the one!
This one is 5000
I’ve been on the cheap treadmills since Zwift Run launched and it’s ok-ish. I have also been searching and trying to validate the expense of a larger more quality treadmills and I just can’t justify the money. I love the concept of the Kickr Run, it’s a complete game changer to the virtual and real world. I’m wondering when they will launch to the rest of the world and what the price will be landed in Aus? I definitely want one!!❤
a question about garmin, do you think a garmin 1040 plus will be released soon
Great follow-up to your original vlog. Really looking forward to future vlogs on the Wahoo tread and the long term issues. Those angle actuators and the light sensor I can see as being problem issues for wear and tear. I wonder how much that light sensor would cost if it went out after the warranty expires....must be $$$$.....thanks for another great vlog.
If they are similar to one used on cars (Lidar) they cost $4-5 to make! (Probably will be sold for $200 as replacement parts though)
You are awesome:) Great follow-up I do still feel like the guard should be filling the whole bottom of the machine, not just the front.
It's really interesting. Now if they can make one that is 3 times longer and 3 times faster and 3 times cheaper so I can ride my bike on it I'll buy one in a heart beat! 😂
As a long time iFit user on a Norictrack treadmill, it will take a lot for me to give up that account (plus I have 3 years before it expires)
If iFit becomes supported with this treadmill, I'm onboard with this purchase! I love the auto speed changing.
I made my own device for my treadmill to to auto adjust speed based on my heart rate. Its great. I hope they add speed adjustments from apps for everyone else, it's awesome
Higher your HR faster it goes until max HR, then walking pace for 2min?
@@Mike0 I have it programmed to only reach a particular max speed I set for when I first get on the treadmill and want my heartrate to go up. Once I get my heartrate up, say to 140bpm or zone 2 for me, then it slows down to my workout max speed and auto adjust the speed to keep my heart rate at 140 +/- 5 for the duration of my workout.
I'll be buying one as soon as they are available in Canada. Just need to get my current treadmill to last until then
Looks like I have time to save up before release in the UK and time to sort the garage out! Goodbye £5k!!
Am I the only one that would really like a Lap button for zwift workouts? Could really see doing 400m, 800m etc. Could use watch lap button to start/end an interval, but why not a zwift lap button?
Can I just load my own gpx file and/or Garmin course into it?
Sadly I will never be able to buy one here in Brazil 😢
A tip for those who live in or near major US cities: Nearly new (but used) Commercial/Gym treadmills are available if you seek them out. I found a business with a warehouse full of them. They said Apartment complexes are frequently bought and sold, and that almost every time they get rid of all the gym equipment and put in brand new stuff for the "re-launch." I got a "like new" True TLC900 (12mph/19.4kph w/big video screen) for $600. Call me a hobby jogger if you will, but 12mph/5min mile/3min km is just right for the top end of my indoor intervals. One downside of buying from these commercial warehouses open to the public is you have to move the equipment yourself (or find your own movers), and these commercial machines are beasts to move, especially up or down stairs.
The main issue with gym treadmills is they (can) have way more mileage than a privately owned one without any additional maintenance and upkeep
@coleg7876 the key is to be able to tell which gym treadmills were changed out due to age/use, and which were changed out despite being "like new."
@@1519Spring true!
Incredible! You just said Vanille icecream people are wrong??? You just blew years of carefully built credibility in one go! ;-)
Hehe, DC rainmaker quote on wahoos website for the treadmill
You can't usually get more than 2.4kW from a standard wall outlet, which is just over 3hp.
Mr. Rainmaker! Do you happen to know, or could you find out if it is safe to run the treadmill motor when the unit is turned off?
For those of us that do backwards walking exercises, I know some treadmills it is safe to use the resistance of the motor without damaging the unit.
Do you have any information in this?
I recently bought a Nordictrack and have been disappointed with the iFit integration and lack of customized/manual runs setup. The actual performance is alright but it leaves a lot to be desired with everything behind a paywall. I know its significantly cheaper than this but I'd rather save for something a lot better.
I'm hoping this treadmill can make other manufacturers be more competitive on future offerings. Hopefully this can inspire Woodway on the tech side of things while keeping the superior performance aspects.
This is so close to the perfect for me... Own an x32i that I got for 3k brand new and as someone who trail runs having that incline is worth far more to me than the extra top speed. Do really like that free run tech though. If Wahoo's next rendition can get close to at least 30% I could could stomach the extra 2k.
Well I’m 260 and run quite a bit outdoors so it would be a non-starter for me. Sucks because I like Wahoo products
Can't see this getting much traction as a consumer unit...weighs and costs a ton ! It's easy enough to go out for a run, as opposed to go riding your bike (weather, traffic, etc...).
"A whole new regulatory ballpark of hell." (i.e., liability issues) 😊
If the $5000 is for the speed, weight limit, and tech then give me a cheaper version that can handle ~90 kg and top speed of ~ 17 km/h. I don’t think most people need higher specs than that.
Will you add treadmills to your product comparison page?
Thanks for the great explainations and answers. I am wondering if the device will support ANT+ so I can connect it to my Garmin watch? Also the support of FE-C would be great.
Yes, it supports ANT+ Broadcasting as a Footpod, so your Garmin will see pace/distance. Right now the Garmin watch doesn't control FTMS on treadmills though, just bike trainers.
I'm part of the 18%
Boom!
Hi Ray! How accurate is the speed of the treadmill? How is it calibrated to match real belt speed? Thanks!
So if it's broadcasting elevation, will we get the elevation reported back into the Garmin Treadmill run activity? And on the Zwift run activity sent to Strava so elevation can finally be measured?
One other question is for Stryd users, how well will these two work together? With all the discussions with belt speed and runner speed, and how can you connect everything to Zwift while keeping using Stryd?
Hmm, will I choose treadmill over a car? Or should I wait for them to release a lower spec 20kmph treadmill?
Do you know if it will rebroadcast HRM for apple TV?
Market is not saturated because there is no single one on the market that is working like it should. They are all like Toyota Corollas of the 90s. This treadmill sounds promising but one concern is the low price. If it was $15000 I'd trust it. Now one needs to see how the deck feels. How much is the weight of the whole thing?
The whole thing is 275lbs.
@@Dcrainmaker gym treadmills weigh more than 400 lbs. It's true that they have horrible software and consoles, slow engines and don't automatically change speeds from for example Polar coaching but they have good running feel even in faster paces because of the weight of the whole unit.
Weight of the runner is not an issue normally. Distance runners don't weigh more than 150 lbs. and joggers/walkers can use any toy out there. Sometimes restrictions are software based. For example some Precor treadmills have a top speed of 12 mph which can be changed remotely. There was one gym where treadmills looked exactly the same but some were fast enough for workouts and some not. You always have to ask the top speed. When i test gyms, i always check how fast the mill goes and what the max time is. Some treadmills have max time of only 60, 99 or 120 minutes and it drives me crazy if i need to stop and restart the machine all the time. Matrix is funny. If you choose distance, the maximum is 42.2 km but if you choose time, it's only 120 minutes.
Off-topic question, any news about elemnt v3?
The warranty is a big deal. Most brands have warranty on labor, parts, frame, etc. My Precor has a lifetime frame, 5 years for the motor/parts, and 1 year on labor. Wahoo needs to do better, especially with all the baked in tech.
Wonder how much this will be?
Cool!! QUESTION - any planned news on Wahoo Bike V3
Quick question Rob
Do you think Garmin is due to release new rally pedals? I’m currently using PowerTap P1. Thinking of upgrading
By the way w will be using them for TrainerRoad with a Tacx neo 2T and outdoor riding
I wish there will be a cheaper vision for slower runners that do not need 2:28 min/km pace. The majority of runners can probably live with 3:15 or even 3:30 min/km max pace.
I have a garage floor that’s not level, it’s straight but pitched at an angle. Does the treadmill need to be placed on a level floor or will it find level itself?
You manually level it using the little buttons on console.
Nice shirt
Pasta for the win!
Is there a way to adjust the run-free mode neutral speed? Meaning, I may want the sweet spot, where the treadmill isn’t speeding up or slowing down based on finding just the right location on the treadmill, to be an 8/minute mile whereas a faster runner may want that to be a 7/min mile?
I think the idea is that there is no set "neutral" speed. If you get on and start running at your body's natural pace, the treadmill will adjust its speed to match. I.e. being centered on the belt doesn't mean a default of 8:00/mile, but rather that you and the belt are both matching pace.
yay me 18%er
no, never ever at the price. (I run on treadmill 4-5 days a week in winter)
2:49 So the KICKR Run can do something the KICKR Bike can't? The KICKR Bike won't represent Zwift elevation while in a workout using ERG mode. Since the treadmill is holding power for you when not in the free run mode, essentially ERG mode for the KICKR Run. Will the KICKR Bike get this feature now?
I don't understand this proposed rate. Indeed, this treadmill seems much more comprehensive to me than the Woodway 4Front or Technogym at $20,000."
i think i would definitely buy one, i'm on the hunt for a treadmill soon and this seems so have all the features i would want, the Deck seems short for me, looking at you on the deck it seems like they could move the arms forward giving you a little bit more room so your foot doesnt get to the edge..
other than that the warranty is definitely the red flag for me, i can trust a comapny by the trust they have on their hardware, if i buy a car with 7 years warranty i know they made it to last and it's a banger, compared to the french cars as example no offense to my country but 2years hmm WHAT ??
Wahoo make it magic and you'll get a fan for sure
Where did you get that T-shirt??
Here ya go: www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Eat-Pasta-Run-Fasta-by-aaronarthur/4326471.GDEN5.XYZ
A ton of* new details (p.s. great review thanks!) 😂
Yeah, ideally. But if I stuck 'of' in there, it breaks a wrap-around of the title in certain formats. :-/
You would really want a 30 amp circuit if you had more than 3 hp, not going to be something people have. More than enough to get to 15 mph, up unless maybe you’re 250 lbs and can run 5 min miles at a 12% grade.
I hate treadmills. A week ago I would have told you I absolutely without a doubt will never buy a treadmill. Now I want a damn treadmill.
😂
Do you see Peleton fully supporting this? I use Zwift but my wife uses Peleton. Being able to have a treadmill that fully supports both would be a huge advantage.
Peloton will never support anything but Peloton.
@@ZachTheExcitedViper That's what I thought as well but in his other video he said Peleton was there as well and mentioned them supporting it. I am curious to what extent "Supporting" it means.
compro la pasta
The ergos look a bit tight. When he is running closer to the front in the previous demo video it looks like his thighs are almost hitting the console area. Seems like if someone has a bit more leg lift with their running style this would a deal breaker or potentially dangerous. When comparing the console position to the Peloton Tread's cross bar (or any traditional treadmill), you can see the Peloton's is in line with the front roller. Alternatively, if someone was taller than DCRain, their legs would also likely hit running at full speed.
Seems like an oversight; thoughts?
Nah, I think that’s honestly just camera angle. I didn’t feel anywhere near it. And certainly further than Peloton Tread (which I have).
Good to hear, thanks!
The optical sensor and variable speed is very cool; however, don’t manual treadmills fit this niche.
Sorta. The problem with manual treadmills is that, at least for me, I find them very unrealistic from a running perspecitve. They work for some people, but a lot of runners don't like the added weight of trying to move that belt/system.
@@Dcrainmaker Curved motorless treadmill owner here (Assault Fitness Air Runner), and I find it to be somewhat realistic (2 years/1,500+ miles logged). But, as you mentioned it is very forgiving on my knees (vs outside). I've had two ACL surgeries, so it helps (I love being outdoors, and run 50/50 indoors/outdoors). There was an initial steep learning curve (about 20-40 hours), but I think the curved design helps in assisting the runner propel the slat system (it;s all about body position and lean). Regarding @denthap313's response, Id agree with you that NO other MOTORIZED treadmill on the market can compare to Wahoo's speed accel/decel performance. I am absolutely impressed with what I am seeing here. Reason why I went curved motorless: My 12-year old Sole F80 had so many problems when it aged. I had to replace the speed sensor and belt motor twice. I went through three lift motors and then after the deck began tearing... I got rid of it. If Wahoo is going to stand behind this new design, I'd agree that a 1-year warranty is insufficient. Very promising though, great review. Following... I'm an 18%' er : P
I can see a person like Lucy Charles Barklay having one (probably sponsored), a gym, a personal trainer studio and a dentist or an executive having one, but thats about it. Additionally, any serious amateur athlete will have a gym subscription, where there are always professional grade treadmills.
slat treadmills do suck! It feels like running on mud from a feedback perspective! I have verified this with HR. Slat treadmills are WACK.
God the FPS on the computer is brutal 😂
Yeah, the person who setup the laptop for the demo is now being appropriately hazed. Ideally, that also includes pledges to buy them a faster machine.
@@Dcrainmaker totally. Like the treadmill features and everything. For $5K like a Landice it should honestly have close to a lifetime parts warranty.
DC i live in sharing room with night shift workers and i want buy stationery bike please tell which one is the quitest ?
No one even asked for storage space at all.....
18%++
Voltages vary worldwide, but a 110v socket in the US can only guaranteed to deliver about 1650 watts. Knowing that a horse power is 746 watts, even 3hp isn't real. I think Wahoo probably used a premium motor and controller on this premium product. However, they are just being dishonest less claiming it puts out 3hp from a standard wall socket. Al least it's not a 6hp shop vac 😂.
read, just read. There is absolutely no evidence for your allegations. A 3.0 horsepower motor, that is what we know so far. There is no claim at all, about the max power output. Not to mention, that of course even under 110V and 30A, that wouldn't be a problem. Not to mention, that in civilized Europe, we have 230V, 16A or 3680W.
Would you like to have a motor installed, that has to work at 100% performance level all the time? This 3.0 HP is a silly marketing statement for silly people. Mission accomplished.
@@michaelk.920 "This 3.0 HP is a silly marketing statement for silly people." Yep we agree. No need to be snide, I read just fine.
just run outside lol
Why do you use units only USA uses? %96 of the world uses metric system.
Hey now. I just had to convert the stated deck height of 30cm to inches. 😂
I literally converted everything on the screen. Also, 96% of the world can’t get this treadmill, because it’s only available in the US for the first year. Finally, I was in the US when I shot the treadmill pieces, thus statute units.
This sounds more like a question for Joe Biden
It shoudn't be difficult to change the units to metric in Zwift.Also maybe more people would subscribe if you use units people familiar with.@@Dcrainmaker
@@DavidFritzIIIThis sounds more like a statement to cause internet arguments for the lulz.
And runners complain about the prices cyclists pay for their hobby. I wonder what their target audience is with such a monster. Don't care about treadmills that are 10k. That's ridiculous for something I can do outside for free.
Ridiculous price
Amazing price for that technology. I'm blown away by how solid it looks and to be able to hit those higher end paces. My brand new $3k treadmill doesn't feel super stable at 10 mph.
No, not really. If you know what a good quality treadmill costs, this is in the ballpark.