Even though it is non canon, the deadline game over for Maruki’s palace is horrifying. Him just deciding that “yeah you don’t know how to think about this so I’ll make you never be able to form a rational thought again” is one of the most horrifying things I have seen especially from a so called “not villain.”
@@Eventualmoss315 are those "sometimes" related to the persona franchise or games in general because i am specifically talking about persona and that sometimes has not been true at all
If you look carefully in the False Reality Ending credits after Credits Image Joker and Akechi are looking at us "You know what you picked, are you happy. Putting us in a Gilded Cage ?"
55:24 Maruki rewriting reality because Joker missed Akechi too much and Akechi's ideal reality be spending time with Joker is definitely very interesting. Pride month may have ended but there's still something fruity going on here.
The Maruki deal ending has a number of elements showcased in the way the thieves describe their lives and in the credits images that definitely make taking the deal feel...not right. Most notably: Recall that at the end of Futaba's palace, when she tries to go to the "real" cognition of her mom, she tells Futaba not to come closer, that she needs to move on from her. That has been Futaba's arc throughout the entire game, a girl who's scared of the world and people, having to find the strength to go on without her mother to guide her through it and learning to build new relationships. In Maruki's reality, Futaba brings back her mom and is shown clinging to her arm as she's starting school. Ann's confidant mentions Shiho's rehab and how that has shown Ann true strength of the heart. It's something that takes a sort of backseat to the modeling stuff a lot of the time, but it's some of the harder hitting stuff in the game. Safe to say, in Maruki's reality Shiho and Ann never went through their abuses, but where does that leave Ann and the dream she wanted to pursue, being someone who can truly inspire people with her confidence and strength? There are other things like that to find in the other thieves, but the one I always think about when considering this ending is the final shot of Sumire, as Kasumi, with a trophy. Note that she's by herself. The other thieves have brought back loved ones in their "ideal" reality, but it is something that the broken Sumire can't even consider. This part breaks my heart to think about: Sumire believes it is better for Sumire to not exist so that Kasumi can succeed. This is why she doesn't bring her sister back, because she believes Sumire should have died instead. Connecting back to Futaba, an area where Maruki's reality falls short is in the impacts and wishes of loved ones who are gone. The real Kasumi we know wanted both sisters to reach the top together. For Sumire to accept the "easy way out" leaves Sumire dead and the real Kasumi's dream forever lost. For Futaba, any mother that would let her go back to her dependency is nothing more than an poor imitation. (Almost done I swear) And the best part of all of this is that it's subtle. None of this is said, but it's there for you to connect. Just like real life, we can't always see all the pieces at once, and only through deep reflection can we see the choices, people, and experiences that make us who we are. Even the best intetioned choices may end up hurting us or others around us. In the end, true strength of the heart is the ability to take the reality we are given and make it one where we can be happy. Maruki arc is peak. I rest my case.
The reason that accepting Maruki's deal feels wrong is because accepting means giving up everybody's free will and becoming his puppet. The game presents things as all nice, but it's really not much different from accepting Yaldaaoth's deal. No free will, and we become no different from a robot or one of the cognitive beings on a palace. The people in Maruki's reality seem happy because he believes that they are happy. He believes that whatever changes he makes to people's lives and personalities make them happy so they act happy. But without the free will to make our own choices, our emotions become meaningless. Fun fact, in the making of P5R, the devs initially considered changing the Valentines day event so that all of the girls would be happy if the player accepted Maruki's deal. I assume they backed off of the idea because it would be too on the nose. But even without the event, the game still hints that Maruki has some pretty messed up ideas on how to change reality. In particular, there is a woman who was abused by her boyfriend that leaves him at some point in the game. In Maruki's ideal world, she is paired back with the guy and their lives changed so he was no longer abusive. Maruki likely believed that this was ideal since the abuser would be happier without her, but it's messed up because he completely threw away her autonomy to choose. On thieves den achievements:They are profile wide, and can be easily gained through save scumming. The two relating to dating all 10 female confidants and friendzoning all 10 female confidants can be obtained in a single playthrough WITHOUT seeing the valentines event where you get beat up. Say you want to date Kawakami in a playthrough. You start off and say you get to rank 8 with Takemi. You save. Go do her Rank 9, choose to date her. max out her at rank 10. When you can move and pause, load up your save from when she was Rank 8. Friendzone her. Continue as usual. You get Ann to Rank 8. Save, then date her, Max her out, load your save, friendzone her. Keep going until you get to the Kawakami. Rank her up to 8, save, then friendzone her, max her out, then load your save and date her. Continue as normal. Keep doing this until you get to Sumire and date her, max her out, then load your Rank 8 save for her, friendzone her at Rank 9, max her out and continue as normal. Other ones can be save scummed as well. To read 40 different books, find any save where you have plenty of free time, and read one or more books (preferrably you want to have read Speed Reading at some point. Be sure to note down which ones you've read as they won't count twice. Most of the TD achievements can be obtained in the first playthrough. Three of them require NG+. Completing it gets an accessory that makes you invisible to shadows on the field. That's obviously not that amazing. The real benefit for me is completing the challenges gets the currency to buy the decorations for the TD. Buying a lot of the images lines the walls with them. You can also buy the dioramas for the center, themes for the TD, music to listen to it anytime you want in the TD, and the little movies for the movie player, some of which is footage from the Persona Live concerts. Also completing the Compendium makes summoning personas from it completely free.
Also some other thoughts. 1. You mentioned enjoying Toradora. I agree, it's a great show. 2. Interesting thing about the Valentines event where Joker gets beaten up. It's actually possible to get that scene while only dating one girl. You see, when your character is dating a girl and he doesn't respond to that girl's text on 2/13, she gets flagged as "ignored" and on 2/15, any girl flagged as "ignored" will show up angry. 3. Also I think I may actually prefer the nonromance 2/14 event over the romance ones. You get to hang out with the bros, get some advice from Sojiro, and even go out to eat together. Sounds like they had a great time. I also think that that event happening that way is a great way keep players from feeling like they are missing something. The game itself doesn't really pressure the player into dating anybody if they don't want to which is nice. 4.The reason why the player can romance the adult characters is 2 fold. Some players are older and they self-insert themselves into the role of Joker. Some go so far as to consider it gross that the player can even date the other teenage characters because P5 is considered a game for adults. The other reason the adult characters can be romanced is because Persona games are power fantasies. In Japan, the game is rated 15+ and in the US it is rated M which is 17+. The target audience is mostly teenagers and young adults. And most teenage boys have had at least one female teacher or adult they were attracted to. Joker as the protagonist is basically a chick magnet. IRL it might not be so easy for him to get the attention of all of the girls around him, but in-game its extremely easy for him despite not really displaying much of a personality. 5. Morality wise, yes it would be wrong, and also highly illegal. Logically a teacher like Kawakami who had just been given her passion for teaching back and a financial freedom would probably not consider dating Joker at all because losing her job would be the least of her worries if they were caught. Not only is there the age gap, but she is in a position of power over him. But I disagree with the comparison to Kamoshida. Kamoshida physically abused students and regularly abused his position over the female students to get them. Kawakami dating Joker is morally wrong and illegal, but it isn't anywhere near what Kamoshida did. Keep in mind, at the start of the game, Many of the volleyball players have bruises from his physical abuse. Even Shiho is bruised pretty badly. It would be one thing if he was in a "consensual" (they wouldn't have the mental and emotional capacity to truly consent) relationship, but it's pretty clear that he's pushing himself onto Ann, and later Shiho (they don't state how far he went but it was likely pretty bad). Whereas Joker through the player's choices confesses to Kawakami and tries to convince her to date him. IRL she would still be a criminal and in the wrong, but even accounting for double standards, I would not put her in the same category as Kamoshida, who could not care less about the girls he preyed on. Furthermore, Kawakami is shown to take her job seriously after this (in both routes) and not try to abuse her status. I don't think the devs were tying to say it was okay though,, just that in this one very specific instance in a fictional story with a power fantasy protagonist that it wasn't the worst thing ever.
I buy the reality of maruki, because not everyone has a chance to make a choice. I think about rumi, and the people who dies, like wakaba, or akechi. In reality, we just have to accept what the fate gives to us, but if it's a better option out there, i go for it.
@@isacjames4195 And you only need to pay attention to the game to see that Maruki does not have the ethical or logical qualities to essentially act as God. It's apparent from the beginning. Here is a man whose profession is counseling people when they need advice.In comes a vulnerable young teenage girl who has just lost her older sister and she feels immensely responsible. She already had issues related to her self-worth before. In her darkest time she essentially says that things would have been better had she been the one to die instead, Maruki, being the wise and caring counselor agrees...wait what? I said this in another video, but Maruki agreeing with Sumire here shows he has a twisted sense of morality. The struggles that Sumire go through in the game are quite relatable to people. And IRL, we try to help them by ensuring they know that we care about them, and that they have value. Maruki essentially did the opposite. He brainwashed her into thinking she was Kasumi. And at first, this does seem to help. But cracks show all throughout the game, and it becomes more and more obvious that being "Kasumi" isn't what Sumire needed, and it won't solve her underlying issues. In fact, she still feels the same deep down, but now the reason why is kept from her and this actually causes her even more distress over time. Then her illusion shatters in front of her. Now, there is someething to be said about how Maruki literally showed her the worst moment of her like, practically like it was in 4k. I can't help but see this action as immoral and mean spirited. Maruki believes that Sumire would be better off "dead" and Kasumi "Alive". And so he is willing to do something that is imo heinous in order to prove that he is right. He re-traumatized a vulnerable young girl in order to manipulate her into wanting to go back to being ignorant of her situation. Then several days later, lets her fight Joker in order to guilt trip Joker into accepting his offer. If Joker doesn't give in, Sumire is forced to accept the reality that her sister, Kasumi is dead and that she is Sumire. And while one might think that she would crash here, she doesn't. In fact through the support of Joker and those around her, she realizes that her Kasumi would have wanted her to keep living and pursue her dreams. Sumire chooses to live for the both of them and as a result of her growth becomes truly happy. And then if Joker accepts Maruki's offer at the end of the game, Maruki undoes all of that growth that Sumire had and makes her go back to being "Kasumi". IMO, Sumire is THE biggest sign that Maruki is not right. In the "perfect" world that Maruki created, he essentially chose to kill Sumire entirely. He can completely change how a person believes or acts, such as how he changes Akechi. And he can bring back the dead. So he could have brought back Kasumi and got rid of Sumire's doubts about her self-worth. Or he could have broght back "Sumire" to act as the new Kasumi, essentially swapping the two sisters. Instead he chose to have Sumire go back to being Kasumi, despite her wish to stay as Sumire at the end. In other words, Maruki, on some level believes that Sumire has no value, even when she herself has learned to value herself. Sumire is the biggest sign that Maruki has a distorted sense of morality. She's also the case that he thought proved he was the right choice, but is actually strong evidence to the contrary. There are other places in the game that show this as well, like the woman that was paired back up with her abusive ex-boyfriend because Maruki believed she would be happier with him. It's pretty screwed up because if you pay attention through the game you see she was suffering being with him and she finally worked up the courage to leave him, only to be thrust back. In Maruki's mind, he sees it as okay because he change the guy to not be abusive anymore, but he still made the choice for her. You mentioned Rumi, but I don't think it is as much of a victory for his view as it looked. Rumi went through a traumatic experience, but she may have still been able to recover, even if that recovery a lot took time. We can see that it is possible through Sumire, Futaba, Haru, Shiho, and Ann (and to a lesser extent most of your party members). Each of these people had something traumatic happen to them or to somebody they cared about and it greatly impacted how they developed. Futaba's mother jumped in front of a car screaming her name when she was a very young girl. She had people around her gaslight her into blaming herself and it is likely without Joker and his friends she may have gone down a route of self-harm or deletion. She also went through abuse and neglect by her uncle. Haru saw her father die on live television in one of the worst ways possible. She then had the responsibility of running an international corporation put on her lap. She was also being pressured (by her own father nonetheless) into an arranged marriage with somebody much older than her. Shiho was most likely r-worded. This is in addition to the clear physical abuse she had endured. It was enough to make her attempt to -1 herself. The event caused immense harm to her body. She had to go through extremely painful physical rehabilitation. But she was pushing through it despite how hard it was. Ann was groomed and sexually harassed by somebody she should have been able to trust, the same person that hurt Shiho. And she had to watch her best friend make an attempt on her own life. This caused Ann to blame herself. She initially put up with Kamoshida's grooming, but could not handle him when he tried to go all the way with her. As a result, Kamoshida took out his anger and lust on Shiho. So Ann believed it was her fault for not enduring Kamoshida's abuse. Obviously it's not. But it makes sense why she would feel that way. She realized though that Kamoshida is the one at fault and learns to show her strength to inspire Shiho to push ahead. The inspiration is mutual. All of Maruki's actions stem from his own trauma and sorrow and IMO, he projects his own sense of weakness onto everybody around him. That's why he is so quick to agree with Sumire when she pretty much expresses -1 thoughts. Because he believes that if he were put through those situations he would completely fall apart, he believes everybody else would too. And all of it stems from the sorrow he felt when the woman he loved had her life traumatically changed. When you change h is heart, he legitimately seems to have overcome his own trauma and is now willing to help people by taking them where THEY want to go, rather than where he wants to take them. The last big issue is that because Maruki's reality is not really any different from Yaldy's. When you take away free will, and choose how somebody feels about something, then nothing really matters. The woman who was put with her abusive lover was forced to be "happy", but would you really be happy being with somebody that was abusive towards you? If she had known what he had really done, would she have wanted to stay with him? In the Yaldy ending, people become happy despite the rampant crime and corruption because Yaldy believed that was what they would want and gave them what they "wanted". Maruki's reality on the surface appears nicer, but underneath it is the same rot. His world has little to no room for true growth. Also reminder that there was originally going to be a harem Valentines event in the game. While some people IRL are okay being in poly-amorous relationships, the majority of people do not.Normally if Joker romances more than one woman, the women find out on Valentines and make it clear they do not want to be in a poly-amorous relationship. A reality where all of the girls are happy to share their lover with one another might make Joker happy, but that's pretty messed up. Maruki could abuse his powers even further, if he made Ann or Shiho perceive Kamoshiida's grooming as positive or normal, it would be gross and immoral for us, but in their reality would be just as neutral as anything else since what is good and what is bad change depending on how their "God" sees it.
@@AlbedoAtoned i get now... that was a deeep analysis. i don't think about how much complex is the history of sumire. maybe i take maruki's side, because the game focus a lot in akechi, and how he don't accept the reality of maruki, for me, the reasons of his are just selfish. (sorry for bad english)
@@isacjames4195 I don't agree with the take that Akechi is being selfish here. Akechi had been used for several years. His father abandoned him and his mother committed suicide, which he was essentially blamed for. He had a hard life and then he gained the power of Persona. Unfortunately, this power ended up leading him to becoming a tool. The same father that abandoned him used him and planned on getting rid of him. And ultimately he was being used by Yaldabaoth in Yaldy's twisted game to determine if humanity deserved free will. The one action he took that was truly his own was to sacrifice himself to save Joker (his one real friend), and the rest of the Phantom Thieves so they could bring his father to justice. He died for a noble even if his actions up until that point were not really forgivable. Maruki then undoes that action, because Joker deep down wanted Akechi to be alive as a friend and rival.Akechi ends up turning himself into the police to help bring his father to justice. Again, this is a noble action that he didn't have to do, but here it is clear that he wants to do the right thing even if it costs him his freedom and public image. Maruki undoes that too. He makes it so the police let him go with no charges, despite the fact that he had committed several murders and worked with the man that tried essentially taking over Japan and the world by using the Metaverse. Akechi knows something is wrong. See at the end of the day, Akechi is yet again somebody else's pawn. Maruki brought Akechi back because he believed that he could use his life as a bargaining chip for Joker. "You know what will happen if you don't accept my reality." Akechi has had enough of being used. He had no recollection of what happened after the gunshot in Shido's Palace. So he always suspected that he had actually died. In the end, hearing that Maruki basically brought him back to life didn't surprise him. Akechi knows that accepting Maruki's reality means giving up free will and becoming a prisoner, just like what happened near the end off the vanilla route where all of the characters are trapped in cells in the Velvet Room. In the end, he fought to keep humanity free from the shackles of Maruki and the Metaverse knowing that he would die. That's pretty selfless imo.
I had a feeling JC would absolutely love Sumire's stuff so I'm glad he watched it, her link is the best in terms of romantic stuff haha, the reaction was top notch
Considering how normalized Kawakami and Joker dating has been in my brain and in the fandom, watching someone freak out about it like this is absolutely hilarious
i commented on the last video on the main channel saying "Strikers is supposed to be a genuine sequel to the vanilla game, gives Haru more screentime" and here it is at 5:10:54 😭
It’s been a hell of a series following you along for over a year, glad to see you wrapping up most of the loose ends and giving closure to an amazing game. The call back to your first persona vid episode was a real cute touch because you definitely had no idea what you were getting into. That being said, it certainly lived up to the “change the world” description huh? Shoutout to everyone that contributed to the spreadsheet and letting you know how much content Persona 5 has. Especially considering there’s even more that you weren’t able to get into. While I know you aren’t going to stream any more P5 content, I do suggest watching the anime OVA’s (You can probably do the anime series as a whole too, it’s just a retelling of the vanilla story. But people are highly critical of it due to its poor animation style). The OVA being an in depth look of Joker and Akechi’s relationship developing as rivals and Akechi confiding in Joker more and more. There also a Valentine’s Day OVA that shows Joker going on individual dates with every girl, then cuts to the harem options where joker hangs with Ryuji and gets jumped by the girls the next day. (There’s also a bonus date shown with a girl you can’t romance in the game but is VERY well received by fans. You can guess who that is). Overall it’s been a fun ride watching you experience one of the best story games there is in my opinion and look forward to what you play next!
Persona games are an experience. Once a game is done, it leaves a massive in hole, yet at the same time it is also fullfilling. Like having closed a chapter of your life.
Yeah I just fucking bawled my eyes out to Ideal and the Real - end version for a solid half hour in the shower. Didn't realize how beautiful a song it was on my playthrough 😢
I'm still trying to find the time to get through this vid. please tell me JC figured out that the reason traffic is so bad at the beginning of the game is because that's when kasumi got hit by a car.
I can't believe JC is really gaslighted with this Ohya overhate since the middle game and now he doesn't want to see the assistance scene. I guess it's fair because he really doesn't get into The Devil Confidant, but it's little bit sad to not check it quick.
Hahahahaha 😂 I accidentally did this in my first playthrough like I've mentioned before. I regret angering Makoto cause I cheated on her and I dated Sumi for Valentine's and White day.
Anyway, it was fun watching the vods JC! maybe the highlights will actually save my time, but I'm already skipping a lot in these vods so... I kinda get most of the content.
Luckily all pre Sae's Palace endings are false memories brought about by the overdose. At least for the other affected character. We all know he actually makes it to Sae's palace now don't we.
Ideal and the Real was composed by Toshiki Konishi as opposed to most of the rest of the soundtrack which is by series lead composer Shoji Meguro. Both of them are amazing composers and guitar players. Konishi composed nearly the entire soundtrack for Tactica.
It’s not about being sweet, if Kamoshida was sweet with Shiho would a romantic relationship be okay? No, because not only there is an age gap but the problem of hierarchy in their daily life, it’s weird either way.
@@chillswany It's pretty weird that Kawakami is a romance, but comparing her to that genuine monster is just nuts. Is what she is doing wrong? Yes absolutely but it's *your* choice to romance her, and *you* have to *convince her* to do it. Where as kamashida is just a straight up *rapist* that has *beaten* countless students, and has *sexualy harassed* most of the girls in school.
@@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302 It’s not about that, I don’t think Kawakami is a bad person I love her character, I just choose to believe the adult romances aren’t canon and are made just for adult players who self insert and don’t want to date teens, but Joker pursing Kawakami doesn’t make it better because she still is an adult and should know better.
@@chillswany oh well then in that case im sorry for coming at you like that. Because I agree it *is* weird and out of character. But it's a non-canon player choice you actually have to go out of your way for so I dont hold it against her character. Also i think UA-cam zapped my first comment, tbf I didn't censore my language when talking about what kamashida did so that's is on me.
BTW, age of consent in Japan is 16, 13 in some low population rural areas that need babies real badly. Actually, age of consent is 16 in most countries.
No, we raised THE LOWEST age of consent of 13 to 16, meaning there isn’t a 13 year old age of consent law anymore, most of the country adheres to the 18 yo age of consent and the parts of the country that did 13 are now 16
@@chillswany 18 is what is considered socially acceptable, but legally it is 16. It is 16 pretty much everywhere except the US. Didn't know they finally officialized the no more 13 thing. I know that was in talks for a while when I was living over there. It's good, but I feel bad for rural communities that are dying. That law never helped then too much, but they aren't receiving any other support either. They really should start offering incentives for folks to move out to the country.
I interpreted what Maruki says about Akechi as I managed to make it so you meet back up and can reforge a better relationship. Not necessarily that Akechi died in Shido's Palace More like, Maruki forced the consequences to be Changed so Akechi would have no choice but to reveal himself. After defeating his Cognitive double he left The Metaverse and decided to hide so if Shido was still able to Prevent his own Change of Heart. Akechi would've been hunted down and murdered by some other guy who has the Power of Persona getting payed by Shido or his Men
@@DennisH.-og2pj Maybe you should play the game first before making incorrect assumptions. The Maruki ending is not a good ending, however it is not a “bad” one either. It just is not the *true* ending. The devs themselves have stated that both endings are acceptable- none is better than the other, or something along those lines. OP even said so in the comment that began this chain. Edit: Just to clarify, I’m not arguing against you. The guy you responded to is clearly wrong, but you corrected them with the wrong information.
Hey btw I wanted to tell you this long time ago before you beat persona 5 and all that but uhh the part with dr maruki is yes not from the main persona 5 part it is yes the Royal part and also it took me over 100 hours to beat the persona 5 part I only learned about the dr maruki part after I looked it up and I been playing persona 5 over and over just to get a world record on longest time playing rn I'm at 500 hours lol btw I'm a big fan of persona I only looked you up after coming across you playing persona I don't have a twitch account only cause it's being annoying with me making one but I'll get it soon enough hi and have a great life you better or I'll make u lol (joking) btw if you ever want anything like knowledge about a game or anime I'll give it to ya lol bye bye now have fun
Even though it is non canon, the deadline game over for Maruki’s palace is horrifying. Him just deciding that “yeah you don’t know how to think about this so I’ll make you never be able to form a rational thought again” is one of the most horrifying things I have seen especially from a so called “not villain.”
maybe this is a dumb question but aren't all bad endings non canon?
@@itisnotVioletatall
yes
@@itisnotVioletatall I mean sometimes the saddest/worst ending is the canon one.
@@Eventualmoss315 how and what are you referring to?
@@Eventualmoss315 are those "sometimes" related to the persona franchise or games in general because i am specifically talking about persona and that sometimes has not been true at all
If you look carefully in the False Reality Ending credits after Credits Image
Joker and Akechi are looking at us
"You know what you picked, are you happy. Putting us in a Gilded Cage ?"
Bro atp jc wont go outside cause the sky is blue to avoid p3 spoilers 😭
55:30 bro had his heart changed
55:24 Maruki rewriting reality because Joker missed Akechi too much and Akechi's ideal reality be spending time with Joker is definitely very interesting. Pride month may have ended but there's still something fruity going on here.
It was still pride month when this was streamed.
real
The Maruki deal ending has a number of elements showcased in the way the thieves describe their lives and in the credits images that definitely make taking the deal feel...not right.
Most notably:
Recall that at the end of Futaba's palace, when she tries to go to the "real" cognition of her mom, she tells Futaba not to come closer, that she needs to move on from her. That has been Futaba's arc throughout the entire game, a girl who's scared of the world and people, having to find the strength to go on without her mother to guide her through it and learning to build new relationships.
In Maruki's reality, Futaba brings back her mom and is shown clinging to her arm as she's starting school.
Ann's confidant mentions Shiho's rehab and how that has shown Ann true strength of the heart. It's something that takes a sort of backseat to the modeling stuff a lot of the time, but it's some of the harder hitting stuff in the game.
Safe to say, in Maruki's reality Shiho and Ann never went through their abuses, but where does that leave Ann and the dream she wanted to pursue, being someone who can truly inspire people with her confidence and strength?
There are other things like that to find in the other thieves, but the one I always think about when considering this ending is the final shot of Sumire, as Kasumi, with a trophy. Note that she's by herself. The other thieves have brought back loved ones in their "ideal" reality, but it is something that the broken Sumire can't even consider. This part breaks my heart to think about: Sumire believes it is better for Sumire to not exist so that Kasumi can succeed. This is why she doesn't bring her sister back, because she believes Sumire should have died instead.
Connecting back to Futaba, an area where Maruki's reality falls short is in the impacts and wishes of loved ones who are gone. The real Kasumi we know wanted both sisters to reach the top together. For Sumire to accept the "easy way out" leaves Sumire dead and the real Kasumi's dream forever lost. For Futaba, any mother that would let her go back to her dependency is nothing more than an poor imitation.
(Almost done I swear) And the best part of all of this is that it's subtle. None of this is said, but it's there for you to connect. Just like real life, we can't always see all the pieces at once, and only through deep reflection can we see the choices, people, and experiences that make us who we are. Even the best intetioned choices may end up hurting us or others around us. In the end, true strength of the heart is the ability to take the reality we are given and make it one where we can be happy.
Maruki arc is peak. I rest my case.
1:54:00 actually playing as Violet is really fitting as a protagonist. She really has the aura
Yeah she totally could have been a FEMC
“I get it. I get it now.” they always do in the end 😌
The reason that accepting Maruki's deal feels wrong is because accepting means giving up everybody's free will and becoming his puppet. The game presents things as all nice, but it's really not much different from accepting Yaldaaoth's deal. No free will, and we become no different from a robot or one of the cognitive beings on a palace. The people in Maruki's reality seem happy because he believes that they are happy. He believes that whatever changes he makes to people's lives and personalities make them happy so they act happy. But without the free will to make our own choices, our emotions become meaningless.
Fun fact, in the making of P5R, the devs initially considered changing the Valentines day event so that all of the girls would be happy if the player accepted Maruki's deal. I assume they backed off of the idea because it would be too on the nose. But even without the event, the game still hints that Maruki has some pretty messed up ideas on how to change reality. In particular, there is a woman who was abused by her boyfriend that leaves him at some point in the game. In Maruki's ideal world, she is paired back with the guy and their lives changed so he was no longer abusive. Maruki likely believed that this was ideal since the abuser would be happier without her, but it's messed up because he completely threw away her autonomy to choose.
On thieves den achievements:They are profile wide, and can be easily gained through save scumming. The two relating to dating all 10 female confidants and friendzoning all 10 female confidants can be obtained in a single playthrough WITHOUT seeing the valentines event where you get beat up. Say you want to date Kawakami in a playthrough. You start off and say you get to rank 8 with Takemi. You save. Go do her Rank 9, choose to date her. max out her at rank 10. When you can move and pause, load up your save from when she was Rank 8. Friendzone her. Continue as usual. You get Ann to Rank 8. Save, then date her, Max her out, load your save, friendzone her. Keep going until you get to the Kawakami. Rank her up to 8, save, then friendzone her, max her out, then load your save and date her. Continue as normal. Keep doing this until you get to Sumire and date her, max her out, then load your Rank 8 save for her, friendzone her at Rank 9, max her out and continue as normal.
Other ones can be save scummed as well. To read 40 different books, find any save where you have plenty of free time, and read one or more books (preferrably you want to have read Speed Reading at some point. Be sure to note down which ones you've read as they won't count twice.
Most of the TD achievements can be obtained in the first playthrough. Three of them require NG+. Completing it gets an accessory that makes you invisible to shadows on the field. That's obviously not that amazing. The real benefit for me is completing the challenges gets the currency to buy the decorations for the TD. Buying a lot of the images lines the walls with them. You can also buy the dioramas for the center, themes for the TD, music to listen to it anytime you want in the TD, and the little movies for the movie player, some of which is footage from the Persona Live concerts. Also completing the Compendium makes summoning personas from it completely free.
Also some other thoughts.
1. You mentioned enjoying Toradora. I agree, it's a great show.
2. Interesting thing about the Valentines event where Joker gets beaten up. It's actually possible to get that scene while only dating one girl. You see, when your character is dating a girl and he doesn't respond to that girl's text on 2/13, she gets flagged as "ignored" and on 2/15, any girl flagged as "ignored" will show up angry.
3. Also I think I may actually prefer the nonromance 2/14 event over the romance ones. You get to hang out with the bros, get some advice from Sojiro, and even go out to eat together. Sounds like they had a great time. I also think that that event happening that way is a great way keep players from feeling like they are missing something. The game itself doesn't really pressure the player into dating anybody if they don't want to which is nice.
4.The reason why the player can romance the adult characters is 2 fold. Some players are older and they self-insert themselves into the role of Joker. Some go so far as to consider it gross that the player can even date the other teenage characters because P5 is considered a game for adults. The other reason the adult characters can be romanced is because Persona games are power fantasies. In Japan, the game is rated 15+ and in the US it is rated M which is 17+. The target audience is mostly teenagers and young adults. And most teenage boys have had at least one female teacher or adult they were attracted to. Joker as the protagonist is basically a chick magnet. IRL it might not be so easy for him to get the attention of all of the girls around him, but in-game its extremely easy for him despite not really displaying much of a personality.
5. Morality wise, yes it would be wrong, and also highly illegal. Logically a teacher like Kawakami who had just been given her passion for teaching back and a financial freedom would probably not consider dating Joker at all because losing her job would be the least of her worries if they were caught. Not only is there the age gap, but she is in a position of power over him. But I disagree with the comparison to Kamoshida. Kamoshida physically abused students and regularly abused his position over the female students to get them. Kawakami dating Joker is morally wrong and illegal, but it isn't anywhere near what Kamoshida did. Keep in mind, at the start of the game, Many of the volleyball players have bruises from his physical abuse. Even Shiho is bruised pretty badly.
It would be one thing if he was in a "consensual" (they wouldn't have the mental and emotional capacity to truly consent) relationship, but it's pretty clear that he's pushing himself onto Ann, and later Shiho (they don't state how far he went but it was likely pretty bad). Whereas Joker through the player's choices confesses to Kawakami and tries to convince her to date him. IRL she would still be a criminal and in the wrong, but even accounting for double standards, I would not put her in the same category as Kamoshida, who could not care less about the girls he preyed on. Furthermore, Kawakami is shown to take her job seriously after this (in both routes) and not try to abuse her status. I don't think the devs were tying to say it was okay though,, just that in this one very specific instance in a fictional story with a power fantasy protagonist that it wasn't the worst thing ever.
I buy the reality of maruki, because not everyone has a chance to make a choice. I think about rumi, and the people who dies, like wakaba, or akechi. In reality, we just have to accept what the fate gives to us, but if it's a better option out there, i go for it.
@@isacjames4195 And you only need to pay attention to the game to see that Maruki does not have the ethical or logical qualities to essentially act as God.
It's apparent from the beginning. Here is a man whose profession is counseling people when they need advice.In comes a vulnerable young teenage girl who has just lost her older sister and she feels immensely responsible. She already had issues related to her self-worth before. In her darkest time she essentially says that things would have been better had she been the one to die instead,
Maruki, being the wise and caring counselor agrees...wait what? I said this in another video, but Maruki agreeing with Sumire here shows he has a twisted sense of morality. The struggles that Sumire go through in the game are quite relatable to people. And IRL, we try to help them by ensuring they know that we care about them, and that they have value. Maruki essentially did the opposite.
He brainwashed her into thinking she was Kasumi. And at first, this does seem to help. But cracks show all throughout the game, and it becomes more and more obvious that being "Kasumi" isn't what Sumire needed, and it won't solve her underlying issues. In fact, she still feels the same deep down, but now the reason why is kept from her and this actually causes her even more distress over time.
Then her illusion shatters in front of her. Now, there is someething to be said about how Maruki literally showed her the worst moment of her like, practically like it was in 4k. I can't help but see this action as immoral and mean spirited. Maruki believes that Sumire would be better off "dead" and Kasumi "Alive". And so he is willing to do something that is imo heinous in order to prove that he is right. He re-traumatized a vulnerable young girl in order to manipulate her into wanting to go back to being ignorant of her situation.
Then several days later, lets her fight Joker in order to guilt trip Joker into accepting his offer. If Joker doesn't give in, Sumire is forced to accept the reality that her sister, Kasumi is dead and that she is Sumire. And while one might think that she would crash here, she doesn't. In fact through the support of Joker and those around her, she realizes that her Kasumi would have wanted her to keep living and pursue her dreams. Sumire chooses to live for the both of them and as a result of her growth becomes truly happy.
And then if Joker accepts Maruki's offer at the end of the game, Maruki undoes all of that growth that Sumire had and makes her go back to being "Kasumi". IMO, Sumire is THE biggest sign that Maruki is not right. In the "perfect" world that Maruki created, he essentially chose to kill Sumire entirely. He can completely change how a person believes or acts, such as how he changes Akechi. And he can bring back the dead. So he could have brought back Kasumi and got rid of Sumire's doubts about her self-worth. Or he could have broght back "Sumire" to act as the new Kasumi, essentially swapping the two sisters.
Instead he chose to have Sumire go back to being Kasumi, despite her wish to stay as Sumire at the end. In other words, Maruki, on some level believes that Sumire has no value, even when she herself has learned to value herself. Sumire is the biggest sign that Maruki has a distorted sense of morality.
She's also the case that he thought proved he was the right choice, but is actually strong evidence to the contrary. There are other places in the game that show this as well, like the woman that was paired back up with her abusive ex-boyfriend because Maruki believed she would be happier with him. It's pretty screwed up because if you pay attention through the game you see she was suffering being with him and she finally worked up the courage to leave him, only to be thrust back. In Maruki's mind, he sees it as okay because he change the guy to not be abusive anymore, but he still made the choice for her.
You mentioned Rumi, but I don't think it is as much of a victory for his view as it looked. Rumi went through a traumatic experience, but she may have still been able to recover, even if that recovery a lot took time. We can see that it is possible through Sumire, Futaba, Haru, Shiho, and Ann (and to a lesser extent most of your party members). Each of these people had something traumatic happen to them or to somebody they cared about and it greatly impacted how they developed.
Futaba's mother jumped in front of a car screaming her name when she was a very young girl. She had people around her gaslight her into blaming herself and it is likely without Joker and his friends she may have gone down a route of self-harm or deletion. She also went through abuse and neglect by her uncle.
Haru saw her father die on live television in one of the worst ways possible. She then had the responsibility of running an international corporation put on her lap. She was also being pressured (by her own father nonetheless) into an arranged marriage with somebody much older than her.
Shiho was most likely r-worded. This is in addition to the clear physical abuse she had endured. It was enough to make her attempt to -1 herself. The event caused immense harm to her body. She had to go through extremely painful physical rehabilitation. But she was pushing through it despite how hard it was.
Ann was groomed and sexually harassed by somebody she should have been able to trust, the same person that hurt Shiho. And she had to watch her best friend make an attempt on her own life. This caused Ann to blame herself. She initially put up with Kamoshida's grooming, but could not handle him when he tried to go all the way with her. As a result, Kamoshida took out his anger and lust on Shiho. So Ann believed it was her fault for not enduring Kamoshida's abuse. Obviously it's not. But it makes sense why she would feel that way. She realized though that Kamoshida is the one at fault and learns to show her strength to inspire Shiho to push ahead. The inspiration is mutual.
All of Maruki's actions stem from his own trauma and sorrow and IMO, he projects his own sense of weakness onto everybody around him. That's why he is so quick to agree with Sumire when she pretty much expresses -1 thoughts. Because he believes that if he were put through those situations he would completely fall apart, he believes everybody else would too. And all of it stems from the sorrow he felt when the woman he loved had her life traumatically changed. When you change h is heart, he legitimately seems to have overcome his own trauma and is now willing to help people by taking them where THEY want to go, rather than where he wants to take them.
The last big issue is that because Maruki's reality is not really any different from Yaldy's. When you take away free will, and choose how somebody feels about something, then nothing really matters. The woman who was put with her abusive lover was forced to be "happy", but would you really be happy being with somebody that was abusive towards you? If she had known what he had really done, would she have wanted to stay with him? In the Yaldy ending, people become happy despite the rampant crime and corruption because Yaldy believed that was what they would want and gave them what they "wanted". Maruki's reality on the surface appears nicer, but underneath it is the same rot. His world has little to no room for true growth.
Also reminder that there was originally going to be a harem Valentines event in the game. While some people IRL are okay being in poly-amorous relationships, the majority of people do not.Normally if Joker romances more than one woman, the women find out on Valentines and make it clear they do not want to be in a poly-amorous relationship.
A reality where all of the girls are happy to share their lover with one another might make Joker happy, but that's pretty messed up. Maruki could abuse his powers even further, if he made Ann or Shiho perceive Kamoshiida's grooming as positive or normal, it would be gross and immoral for us, but in their reality would be just as neutral as anything else since what is good and what is bad change depending on how their "God" sees it.
@@AlbedoAtoned i get now... that was a deeep analysis. i don't think about how much complex is the history of sumire. maybe i take maruki's side, because the game focus a lot in akechi, and how he don't accept the reality of maruki, for me, the reasons of his are just selfish.
(sorry for bad english)
@@isacjames4195 I don't agree with the take that Akechi is being selfish here. Akechi had been used for several years. His father abandoned him and his mother committed suicide, which he was essentially blamed for. He had a hard life and then he gained the power of Persona. Unfortunately, this power ended up leading him to becoming a tool. The same father that abandoned him used him and planned on getting rid of him. And ultimately he was being used by Yaldabaoth in Yaldy's twisted game to determine if humanity deserved free will.
The one action he took that was truly his own was to sacrifice himself to save Joker (his one real friend), and the rest of the Phantom Thieves so they could bring his father to justice. He died for a noble even if his actions up until that point were not really forgivable.
Maruki then undoes that action, because Joker deep down wanted Akechi to be alive as a friend and rival.Akechi ends up turning himself into the police to help bring his father to justice. Again, this is a noble action that he didn't have to do, but here it is clear that he wants to do the right thing even if it costs him his freedom and public image.
Maruki undoes that too. He makes it so the police let him go with no charges, despite the fact that he had committed several murders and worked with the man that tried essentially taking over Japan and the world by using the Metaverse. Akechi knows something is wrong.
See at the end of the day, Akechi is yet again somebody else's pawn. Maruki brought Akechi back because he believed that he could use his life as a bargaining chip for Joker. "You know what will happen if you don't accept my reality."
Akechi has had enough of being used. He had no recollection of what happened after the gunshot in Shido's Palace. So he always suspected that he had actually died. In the end, hearing that Maruki basically brought him back to life didn't surprise him.
Akechi knows that accepting Maruki's reality means giving up free will and becoming a prisoner, just like what happened near the end off the vanilla route where all of the characters are trapped in cells in the Velvet Room.
In the end, he fought to keep humanity free from the shackles of Maruki and the Metaverse knowing that he would die. That's pretty selfless imo.
Did someone show you the og Akechi social link? Because one of his ranks is a peak comedy
I had a feeling JC would absolutely love Sumire's stuff so I'm glad he watched it, her link is the best in terms of romantic stuff haha, the reaction was top notch
Best girl deserves it, honestly.
im a church of makoto guy but sumire is absolutely the canon romance
Considering how normalized Kawakami and Joker dating has been in my brain and in the fandom, watching someone freak out about it like this is absolutely hilarious
Same, I got a good laugh from his reaction. Kawakami and Takemi romance option and V-Day date in the original are some of my favorites
i commented on the last video on the main channel saying "Strikers is supposed to be a genuine sequel to the vanilla game, gives Haru more screentime" and here it is at 5:10:54 😭
We making a part 2 in this one
It’s been a hell of a series following you along for over a year, glad to see you wrapping up most of the loose ends and giving closure to an amazing game. The call back to your first persona vid episode was a real cute touch because you definitely had no idea what you were getting into. That being said, it certainly lived up to the “change the world” description huh?
Shoutout to everyone that contributed to the spreadsheet and letting you know how much content Persona 5 has. Especially considering there’s even more that you weren’t able to get into.
While I know you aren’t going to stream any more P5 content, I do suggest watching the anime OVA’s (You can probably do the anime series as a whole too, it’s just a retelling of the vanilla story. But people are highly critical of it due to its poor animation style). The OVA being an in depth look of Joker and Akechi’s relationship developing as rivals and Akechi confiding in Joker more and more. There also a Valentine’s Day OVA that shows Joker going on individual dates with every girl, then cuts to the harem options where joker hangs with Ryuji and gets jumped by the girls the next day. (There’s also a bonus date shown with a girl you can’t romance in the game but is VERY well received by fans. You can guess who that is).
Overall it’s been a fun ride watching you experience one of the best story games there is in my opinion and look forward to what you play next!
3:58:53 Maruki couldn't accept loosing to a kid.
Persona games are an experience. Once a game is done, it leaves a massive in hole, yet at the same time it is also fullfilling. Like having closed a chapter of your life.
Yeah I just fucking bawled my eyes out to Ideal and the Real - end version for a solid half hour in the shower. Didn't realize how beautiful a song it was on my playthrough 😢
I'm still trying to find the time to get through this vid.
please tell me JC figured out that the reason traffic is so bad at the beginning of the game is because that's when kasumi got hit by a car.
I can't believe JC is really gaslighted with this Ohya overhate since the middle game and now he doesn't want to see the assistance scene. I guess it's fair because he really doesn't get into The Devil Confidant, but it's little bit sad to not check it quick.
Man, i can't believe it's over. I was playing basically at the same time as you so i'm happy to be here from beginning to end!!
There's the pokémon rap (Persona version)
Persona live performance
Persona 5 dancing star night
JC's reaction to Kawamommy 🤣
3:51:34 THE HAREM SCENE LMAOO
3:56:59 AND THEN RYUJI
Hahahahaha 😂 I accidentally did this in my first playthrough like I've mentioned before. I regret angering Makoto cause I cheated on her and I dated Sumi for Valentine's and White day.
@@tantheman0921 damn lmao
"You really are....... A Fool"
Kawakami was my first relationship then ann in my second playthrough
This guy LOVES bobies
Anyway, it was fun watching the vods JC! maybe the highlights will actually save my time, but I'm already skipping a lot in these vods so... I kinda get most of the content.
Luckily all pre Sae's Palace endings are false memories brought about by the overdose. At least for the other affected character. We all know he actually makes it to Sae's palace now don't we.
3:41:15 This is the couple I want to see, my favorite Persona 5 couple. Sumire My P5 waifu and second favorite in the franchise.❤❤❤❤❤
Ideal and the Real was composed by Toshiki Konishi as opposed to most of the rest of the soundtrack which is by series lead composer Shoji Meguro. Both of them are amazing composers and guitar players. Konishi composed nearly the entire soundtrack for Tactica.
I cant believe that people actually compre and sweet and wholesome person like Kawakami to Kamoshida
Bruh get you head fixed
It’s not about being sweet, if Kamoshida was sweet with Shiho would a romantic relationship be okay? No, because not only there is an age gap but the problem of hierarchy in their daily life, it’s weird either way.
@@chillswany It's pretty weird that Kawakami is a romance, but comparing her to that genuine monster is just nuts.
Is what she is doing wrong? Yes absolutely but it's *your* choice to romance her, and *you* have to *convince her* to do it. Where as kamashida is just a straight up *rapist* that has *beaten* countless students, and has *sexualy harassed* most of the girls in school.
@@the_dapper_stormtrooper9302 It’s not about that, I don’t think Kawakami is a bad person I love her character, I just choose to believe the adult romances aren’t canon and are made just for adult players who self insert and don’t want to date teens, but Joker pursing Kawakami doesn’t make it better because she still is an adult and should know better.
@@chillswany oh well then in that case im sorry for coming at you like that. Because I agree it *is* weird and out of character. But it's a non-canon player choice you actually have to go out of your way for so I dont hold it against her character.
Also i think UA-cam zapped my first comment, tbf I didn't censore my language when talking about what kamashida did so that's is on me.
BTW, age of consent in Japan is 16, 13 in some low population rural areas that need babies real badly. Actually, age of consent is 16 in most countries.
No, we raised THE LOWEST age of consent of 13 to 16, meaning there isn’t a 13 year old age of consent law anymore, most of the country adheres to the 18 yo age of consent and the parts of the country that did 13 are now 16
@@chillswany 18 is what is considered socially acceptable, but legally it is 16. It is 16 pretty much everywhere except the US. Didn't know they finally officialized the no more 13 thing. I know that was in talks for a while when I was living over there. It's good, but I feel bad for rural communities that are dying. That law never helped then too much, but they aren't receiving any other support either. They really should start offering incentives for folks to move out to the country.
American here. As a whole the age of consent is 18 but depending on where u live it can be as low as 16.
I love the fake ending so much , it is so beautiful i dont care it is right or wrong 😢
The deadline ending is basically Apathy ending
59:54
I have this as my desktop wallpaper sometimes
JC reaction to Kawakami dawggg 😭
I don't think he's gone into the thieves den previously right?
@@MBYui what?
3:52:00 Mona: there is one more guy needs to confess
4:09:40
Lmao chat went crazy on some lines on screen, chill out
3:10:01 Joker too funny bro 😂
3:17:08 WHAT LMAOOO
I agree the kawakami romance is weird....... (still love it tho) but i would NEVER compare it to Kamoshida 😂 at least its consensual
Apparently age of consent in Japan was raised from 13 to 16 only last year. Not good.
You will play smt v vengence some time?
I interpreted what Maruki says about Akechi as
I managed to make it so you meet back up and can reforge a better relationship.
Not necessarily that Akechi died in Shido's Palace
More like, Maruki forced the consequences to be Changed so Akechi would have no choice but to reveal himself.
After defeating his Cognitive double he left The Metaverse and decided to hide so if Shido was still able to Prevent his own Change of Heart.
Akechi would've been hunted down and murdered by some other guy who has the Power of Persona getting payed by Shido or his Men
2:33:39 FACTS!
alright, p3 reload next
I have red his past streams did he say if he was and when he was gonna play P3R?
Said he would, aiming for before the end of 2024 if I recall right.
End of 2024 or start of 2025 cuz he wants to play P5S
And no Makoto definitely didn't get raped in any scenario. She made it to Sae's Palace. The drugs are making Joker confused with false memories.
The devs don't consider maruki's ending a bad ending. Both this and the rebellion ending are equally acceptable according to them
And non-canon because of Strikers
@@PsychSoldier756 They'll release a Maruki timeline dating sim any second now. A persona game without the personas where you can romance ryuji
/j
I personally call Death of the Author on this one. It’s obviously a bad thing, and the game obviously presents it as being a bad ending.
@AraumC It is obviously a good thing and people who think it isn't are kidding themselves.
@@DennisH.-og2pj
Maybe you should play the game first before making incorrect assumptions.
The Maruki ending is not a good ending, however it is not a “bad” one either. It just is not the *true* ending.
The devs themselves have stated that both endings are acceptable- none is better than the other, or something along those lines. OP even said so in the comment that began this chain.
Edit: Just to clarify, I’m not arguing against you. The guy you responded to is clearly wrong, but you corrected them with the wrong information.
4:20:28 I wish I could... Voice acting ain't easy to get into... pray for me...
Kawakami best girl.
3:52:54 💀
I mean the game is rated Mature so yeah some romance options are put in there. Doesn't make them right but it's rated Mature for a reason.
Doesn’t really make sense, it’s not about being mature, it’s about being weird
we all know it's rated M for Mara
still weird af
Hey btw I wanted to tell you this long time ago before you beat persona 5 and all that but uhh the part with dr maruki is yes not from the main persona 5 part it is yes the Royal part and also it took me over 100 hours to beat the persona 5 part I only learned about the dr maruki part after I looked it up and I been playing persona 5 over and over just to get a world record on longest time playing rn I'm at 500 hours lol btw I'm a big fan of persona I only looked you up after coming across you playing persona I don't have a twitch account only cause it's being annoying with me making one but I'll get it soon enough hi and have a great life you better or I'll make u lol (joking) btw if you ever want anything like knowledge about a game or anime I'll give it to ya lol bye bye now have fun
Was this live a minute ago?
nah they’re just vods
@@heeho6942 what are vods?
@@jediotter1079 uploads of the streams so that people can go back and watch later
@@JoeB_91 okay thanks for telling me
For the last video I didn't get annoyed too much by chat and mods, only by the sumire canon thing, which wrong, trash character, makoto best, fact.
4:02:39
First