Re: Reno - I read an interview with Tig where she talked about season 4. They did want Reno to have a larger role, but Tig's got young kids and someone (her wife I think) is still recovering from cancer, so she wanted to limit her potential Covid exposure.
If you actually listened, after he critiqued the scenes with her in it, he did said something about how he can only assume there is a behind the scenes reason for that and mentioned about it being awkward. So I'm not sure what the name calling is about there.
After I watch every episode, the first thing I do is come right here to watch Ups and Downs! Well done! Love these videos! Makes the shows more enjoyable. Thank you!
You not only can stomach modern Trek but are enthusiastically passionate about it? Let me guess, so far left that Marx looks conservative in comparison.
@@Vulpas I've watched Star Trek since I was a kid. And I don't have to justify myself to some keyboard warrior. I can enjoy it. If you don't, then don't watch it. Simple. Go troll someplace else.
I just want to say thank-you Sean Ferrick and the entire Trekculture crew. Enjoying the Ups & Downs of each episode has become a part of the Star Trek: Discovery experience for me. I am looking forward to enjoying next season with you all!
I think that losing the spore drive wasn't so much about the show saying "oh it'll take forever to get home now" I think it was more showing that the crew was willing to take the entirely and completely possible chance that they could be stranded literally half a galaxy away from home after blowing it up. In doing so they put all others above their own wants, needs, and safety.
@@parsapourkaveh7492 well, really that happens in every command decision. Think about the poor shmucks in engineering who had no idea Captain Kirk was willing to self destruct the ship in “Let that be your last battlefield”. They would have been, “hey, could you give me a hand adjusting this plasma injector” and “Kablooey!” without any warning.
At the point where the drive needed to be destroyed to exit the orb there was still the possibility to recover books/experimental spore drive but that went out the window when his ship was destroyed. Kinda killed that stranded feeling temporarily.
I call this season like the opposite of TOS episode "The Devil in The Dark". In that episode, they were mining for Pergeum in Janus IV and in the process were destroying the Horta's eggs without knowing it. Now species 10C was mining for boromite without knowing they were killing people in destroying the planets.
I think you're right. She may very well have been green-screened on the bridge! "Tig Notaro was asked to reprise her recurring guest role of Jett Reno in the season for two different filming blocks. She chose NOT to travel to Toronto for filming in November 2020 due to the pandemic, but hoped that conditions would be safer in May 2021 to allow her to travel for the second block; Notaro confirmed in May 2021 that she was in Toronto to film ALL of her scenes for the season over TWO WEEKS."--Wikipedia
After 4 seasons - I think my favourite character is Admiral Vance - I'd love to see him helm a series! David Cronenberg is welcome to join him - fantastic performance!
Reno was greenscreened in, the entire season - Tig Notaro is immunocompromised from cancer treatment and they didn't want to risk exposing her to COVID.
@@chasethevioletsun9996 I was watching while writing (they were at Books ship), and it didn't look greenscreened, i read about it and you're right - the scenes on Books ship were real, the other all greenscreened
This is like the most Reno we've seen this season, and I'm just relieved she survived the finale, since she started out 2 episodes ago getting kidnapped by destroy-the-universe Tarka. For that matter, I'm glad that TIlly and Vance survived too, it would have been just like them to go out . The near miss with Kayla being a possible sacrifice was also a heart flip moment too. Also Stamets and Culber finally got their vacation, the whole family was stayed alive, and I'm just so happy they're ok for once, I didn't even care about the rest of the episode. Also Stacey Abrams deserves to be the president, NOW!
When they mentioned a several decade long warp back to the Federation I did think they might do a VOY situation for season 5 and I didn't hate that idea but I was glad they didn't go in that direction.
They really need to use her more. So annoying how underused she is. Even in this last episode she does something awesome, and then she goes away. I don't get it.
Was watching The Office clips on YT, and saw a quick bit with Tig Notaro playing a mother who brought her daughter in to apologize to Michael for beating him up in the parking lot earlier. Just neat to notice an actor doing other work.
One last thing for Cetacean Observations, when discussing the 10-C as being a whole the Borg were mentioned which if I'm not mistaken is the first time the Borg are mentioned in Discovery.
Not that I wanted book to stay dead, but him being saves by the 10C after all felt I was cheated out of a great moment of subverting tropes. It was so refreshing that the beam-out-at-the-last-second-while-ship-is-exploding thing for once failed to work. I hoped they'd stick with that, after they already did the "na, we good, even got seconds to spare" thing previously at the barrier, not waiting for the clock to be absolute lim(0) to just make it.
Reno is my fav. It is unfortunate Tig hasn't been able to do as much as she'd probably want to with Discovery. She is a survivor of cancer, which is what her comedy routines were originally based on. She may have a lowered immune system due to previous chemo, so she is considered high risk for COVID. She did so many of her scenes one on one or edited in. But even with her limitations, I loved seeing her in every scene she was in. The small parts still added a lot.
I only just started watching Disco a couple weeks ago, and just finished S4 last night. I wasn't 100% sold on it at first, but now I can say with certainty that it's an absolutely brilliant show. 😌
When Tarka and Book were talking about Kalarysis (?) and how all the people he would encounter there were people who had died and who therefore could not be real, and yet how desperate Tarka was to get there, well...it all reminded me of ST Generations and Soran trying to get back to the Nexus. Do you agree?
You should come on next years Star Trek Cruise!! I was there and it was so cool that you mentioned it! I was at Kenneth Mitchell’s rave and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life!!
Seán ye bollox i struggled with my emotions with this episode 13 as i do now again watching this 1 year on from my Dad passing, your description on Book is spot on and the episode was an emotional rollercoster, from one irishman to another keep up the good work ye fecker.
Tig Notaro shot all of her scenes for the season in two weeks which explains how little she was in it. She wasn’t comfortable travelling in the early pandemic so that was all they could get her for at the end of shooting.
Big thumbs up from me for Culber going back to Puerto Rico for vacation and having some mavi. Would loved to see what Puerto Rico looks like in the future
President Terina was a really great character this season. She manages to distill a perfect balance between the logical Vulcan outlook alongside an acceptance and embracing of emotions - the perfect representative of Vulcans and Romulans reunited.
To all the people who said Discovery isn't real star trek. I think this season/episode is the definition star trek. They Sought out new life/civilizations for peaceful understanding and cooperation.
This has been my favourite Discovery season so far. Sure, there are some of the usual plotholes and story issues near the end of the season that we've come to expect from Discovery, but I thought the way they portrayed the emotional state and interpersonal relationships between the characters was very well done, as well as the moments of focus on mental health. Also, I really liked the acting in this season, especially from Soneque Martin-Green. She's just fenomenal.
I must disagree. For me the heavy focus on interpersonal relationship dialogue was too clunky, over emphasised and misplaced. Don't get me wrong, I'm mentally ill myself and I appreciate discussion of the topics - and irl people should talk out their emotions far more than is the norm - BUT it feels really inappropriate here. For a start there is screen time, having characters discuss their feelings at length, after we just watched a scene in which the actors depicted those feelings perfectly well for the audience, does eat up the time available for plot development. Secondly, it breaks the plot. Several times this season we have ticking clocks started; 'we have 5 minutes to macgyver the mcguffin or we all die!' Followed by 'First I need to tell you about my feelings and how what you said was important for me and made me realise a new point of view, and I'd like to 5hank you and validate your own experiences...' It was bad enough in the red angel Arc when there is a massive space battle to buy time for Michael to get through a wormhole or time portal or whatever, and she stiops to have a five minute heart to heart with Spock.... while people are dying in the background... But this season it seemed to be several times an episode that urgency was dismissed to discuss emotional character development. Put elsewhere in the story or told in less clunky fashion, and I'd be as enthusiastic as yourself but too often I was following the time stamp on the play bar to see how much time was left to do the task at hand.
On the 2nd up, you gave it to the USS Mitchell, named for an actor who played various characters on prior series and episodes. I think you should have given another up to the USS Yelchin, named after Anton Yelchin, Kelvin time-line's Chechov, who tragically was killed right after Star Trek Beyond. You mentioned it in Cetacean Observations, but personally I think it would have honored his memory more as an up.
@@aaronring4704 For me ups are moments when I unexpectedly get a smile on my face, the USS Mitchell did it, but the USS Yelchin did it too, especially since it was so close to Anton's birthday. Anton was born on 11 March 1989.
Regarding the Book death fake-out, I actually felt right from the start that was going to happen. It just didn't feel right that an important character like him was going to die like that. I also didn't really feel that Tilly and Vance would be killed off. If nothing else, I would've been very peeved off if she had, as a lot of shows just bring characters back so they can kill them off. Although, I did worry about them sitting and drinking on the edge of that upper level while the whole station's getting REALLY knocked about every few seconds. I thought either one of them was going to plummet to their deaths! I'd like to submit a couple of additional Ups for the episode. Firstly, Jeff Russo made some REALLY good music for this episode which I felt stood-out a lot. There's a powerful, uplifting choral piece that plays during the montage near the end, of everyone being reunited, Saru's with T'Rina, Earth's safe etc. Also, the VFX was gorgeous, especially with that shot of Starfleet HQ and the whole of Starfleet over Earth at the end.
I guess its not Trek if they don't kill a major character and bring them back in the following scene. Makes me miss the Culber gap. That was a true gut punch. 🖖
I think that all the communication scenes were kind of a waste because in the end, the breakthrough came after T'rina contacted them telepathically. I know that it came at cost to her physically, but the risk was worth it because of the urgency of the situation. It seems like they should've just brought a bunch of telepaths to try to contact them. If T'Rina could've contacted them the whole time in 5 minutes even if it was unlikely to work, they should've tried it first, and learned 10-C's language later. As for Book and Ndoye, they should both be imprisoned for life. We saw a large asteroid break through the planetary shields of Earth and cause massive damage. Millions of people were probably killed either in the shockwave if it was on land or by tsunami if it was at sea. If the two of them hadn't interrupted communications, those people would not have died. Not to mention that the only reason Earth and Nivar are currently at risk and there is this counting clock in the first place is because Book assisted Tarka to stop the first DMA. If the series needed a counting clock Discovery and its crew could've discovered that the DMA was not natural after they had destroyed the first one or they could've destroyed it accidentally when trying to study it because Tarka wanted the device and did something risky. Then, the rest of the season could've been them trying to fix their mistake collectively working together as Tarka realises how much damage he is causing. It could've been a redemption story for all of Discovery. I really did not enjoy this season as a whole. Most of it seemed wasted by things that were only there to cause drama when the threat of a solar system eating anomaly is generating enough drama and urgency anyway.
As described in other comments, there were major health concerns that the production team had to deal with both for Tig and in Toronto/Ontario at that time. To limit her Covid exposure, she was only up here for about a week.
The whole loss of the spore drive I knew wasn't going to be an issue. Either because Book's ship had one too or the Ten-C giving them a way. However, part of me was hoping it would setup the next season as a trek to get home much like Voyager.... lasting maybe only half a season.
Commenting as we go here. Up to @ 13:00 totally on board with all the ups & downs. As for the 'Book is DEAD! Oh great! He's back!' I understand your down now...now that I'm reasonably sober...but when I watched it I was DEEP into St. Patrick's mode and I cried, then cheered. But yes, you are correct. That was just milking the viewer for an emotional response...and due to my Texas Vodka fueled viewing I fell for it...Tilly and Vance? 👍👍 for me this week. Cetacean Observations this week: spot on. As for season 4 of Discovery, overall I was very entertained. Thank you so much for doing these Ups & Downs, Sean!
As for Reno's under-use throughout this season(s) - and I say this with love for the character's charm, and respect to Tig Notaro, truly - is that she is not an actor (she's a stand-up comic) and so tends to get the witty one-liners but not more than that. I think she has attested to this in interviews.
Yeah most tv shows now wait 5 to 15 minutes before going to opening credits… keeps the audience from channel surfing and finding something else to watch that grabs their attention. If they stay for the opener then they are less likely to go elsewhere with their 30 second attention span.
I really liked this season. I've liked them all. Great job recapping and giving us a look at any missed easter eggs. I love the fact that even when you guys don't like something about Star Trek you can express that displeasure without being a jerk to anyone who does like it. Keep up the great work.
Tarka's disregard of lifes actually reminds me of how an early episode of stargate, as well as Doctor who handled alternate universes. The inhabitants of the protagonist's native universe are people, they're being protected, but no one (inkl the audience) gives a sht about the inhabitants of the alternate universe, like they're just copies of the prime universe, like they're not even real. Tarka didn't care about the people of earth and ni'var because in his mind, they aren't people, only the people in his target universe are people. It's a classic alternate universe episode, just from the other side of the wormhole /portal /whatever allows transdimensional travel. Did anyone else see it this way?
Yeah. I thought it was an interesting flip of the trope. It also made his character seem like an interesting metaphor for religious fanaticism, willing to kill for a potential other perfect life. All in all, I really enjoyed it as a character trait for Tarka
Season 1 Discovery would probably have taken Tarka's plan and presented it as the good option. Or at least the threat of it. It's encouraging to see how far this show has come from the grim-dark&edgy atmosphere of that first year.
The 10C reveal almost felt like the Leviathan in ME3 reveal. But I do 100% agree on Tarka. They could have, should have done so much more with him but didn't so his death was like...ok gone, moving on. I didn't believe they would have killed off Book, his ability to empathically communicate was too convenient of an ability to not use with the 10C. I loved Tilly and Vance drinking whisky believing its their end, I just love it. Well we got 2hrs, let's walk about life regrets!
Personally I never got into tarka at all. I didn’t hate him or feel sorry for him. I just found him very urgh! But actually on whole as always I am pretty forgiving with these things and generally enjoyed the season. 💚
I am very much of the opinion that sometimes, you just have to commit to killing a main character. And that having TWO fake out deaths in the same episode is bad form. I've overall liked this season, but they should have killed Book or the General, or both. I'm not sad that we potentially get more Book going forward, but it takes away from the emotional weight of the episode with how they set it up, and it takes away the feeling of stakes for characters going forward.
I loved the scene with the 10c - but book coming back was a bit obvious and I think it would be better if they just let him beam on board frankly! But still loved the communication with 10c and was quite emotional. And tilly ahh so lovely to see her. So hoping she will be back more. Not sure why hardly in this season, disappointed about that x
I am so glad I found this. I don't follow US news that much but I do know who Stacey Abrams is from a podcast I listened to last year. OMG You blew me away when you said she played the president. How fun is that?! What a great little bonus to end off the season. Thank you!! 😃
When Tarka came to the end of his plot-line, I couldn't help thinking: If the energy of his explosive end actually sent him to Kaylise--I hope whomever he met there promptly beat the holy living ego out of him.
I thought this season was a great season with some lows but with many more strong high points/scenes. They more than compensated for those that were weak. Keep on with the "Ups and Down"!!! These videos are are all "Ups' in my book!
I would have bought the 'decades return home' bit if it was played like 'Voyager'. It could have been a next-season arc but alas, they didn't go that way.
Tarka was such a promising character. I loved the episode with him and Oros. But then everything went downhill and he became "meh" again. It's too bad because the actor was really good.
What I found a bit bad was that T'Rina "suddenly" can communicate with the 10C telepathically - like... we could have really used that last week already...! And how far they have come from texting "3
That's not at all what happened. T'Rina read the 10-C's mind, she did not communicate anything. She also injured herself pretty badly while reading their mind.
@@LePedant hmm… that might be correct. However, why didn‘t she do it before? That was my main point. She „suddenly“ realizes „hey wait a sec - I can read their minds“.
@@2squared Because T'Rina didn't know if she could or not. She said "if" she can connect, she "may" be able to communicate. Then Saru followed up with how dangerous it is to connect with an unknown species. She chose to try then because they only had 4 hours, it was a last resort. A last resort that clearly hurt her.
Forget the telepathy bit, what about going from "I don't think we can explain a concept such as individuality" to an hour later, give multiple Oscar speeches about feelings and shit and having the conversation flow as smooth as silk.
Commander Jett Reno played by Tig Notaro. This person should get the award for most badass names ever. Keep in mind Tig played a Commander Lazer in The Fungies and Yeast Week MC in the show Tuca & Bertie.
For the whole season, the fact that Book and Tarka acted like the 10-C could not just rebuild the power source boggles my mind - for them to think destroying it would save the day, do you not realize that they could just build it again - and be angry that you destroyed it?
Did anyone else get the vibe like perhaps there was some doubt while writing this season as to the show being renewed for a fifth and they wanted to wrap things up real nice and neat just in case?
There was a split second where the spore drive blew up I thought this is the set up for season 5, getting back home voyager style but with all these extra politician people and relationships going on, but glad I was wrong
I guess Tig Notaro was green screened in all the time. She doesn't really seens to interact with anyone, like she was not really there on the set. She also filmed that Netflix movie all by herself and a green/blue screen in the back (Army of the Dead, I believe)
i think you missed a BIG down with the volkan telepathic communication seen "ohh i can all of a sudden communicate telepathically with them" why did she not do that before all of the light show and pheromone stuff
Good evening Sean, I did like this episode. It was a as good AS I EXPECTED and YES the alien reveal was good As for Book I didn't care if he lived or died. I did enjoy Tilly and Admiral Vance scenes, LOVE the Saru and T'Rina scenes. I would like to see the Discovery go more on missions to find NEW worlds and continue to reconnect Federation worlds NEXT season and HAVE an adversary LIKE the Tholians or Specie 8472 OR A NEW BAD
I don't understand emptying the Bridge of the primary officers during what is still a tense situation, that out of everything took me out of it. I actually was looking forward to at least one season of them getting back to the Federation and actually exploring.
I would add that 10-C appearance is much like how Spock stated how the Kelvans an other outer-galatic race would look like. Giant size with hundreds of tentacles.
Honestly I really disliked Ndoye. I guess she was honorable in a way, but she was such an unthinking military type, the antithesis of everything we're supposed to value in this universe. I also really felt like the bit with Book was just too much of a fake-out. I like that Burnham doesn't lose everything again, she deserves it, but it was a cheap trick. I almost thought though that we'd have season 5 as a mini-Voyager arc though. I'd have totally been down for that! And with Abrams, I hope the people who are upset keep watching Star Trek and come to take on more of Trek's values and someday understand how what she is fighting for is that hopeful future. There's good reason to be cynical about most politicians, even those on my own side, but she is absolutely not one of them and this made me so happy.
I always have a problem with aliens like 10C who are represented a big globs of body forms with lots of stringy octopus style tentacles who are supposedly able to recreate complex machinery spheres (with simulated interiors that match the Discovery bridge) which would likely require the aliens to have hands and fingers and thumbs similar to humans to be able to build such craft or devices like humans would. Star Trek and many other shows before this one have been guilty of showing up such creatives as highly advanced who lack physical appendages capable to build such things. Unless they build the devices strictly with tele-kinesis or mind powers. Science fiction should have some plausible creatives who could build such things. Perhaps not many people ponder this when watching but I do. Seems humorous when thinking about it.
I am more disturbed by them not being able to stop books ship and also how they unable to sustain hyperfield with boronite being so powerful if they are so advanced. I wish they retcon it and actually next season we find out they needed boronite in order to sustain galactic barrier
No one has mentioned this, but the scene with the 10-C learning to communicate reminds me of the (really good) movie Arrival, which also deals with a language that is not linear.
I think it would have been interesting and better for the General to survive ramming, like being pushed by some sort of safety system onto Book's ship. Seeing her is the thing that brings Tarka out of the death spiral he's in. He sets things to send them back to Discovery, but the signal is lost, but picked up by the 10-C. Rather than the death fake out, the 10-C clumsily let Discovery know they have their two people, and the meeting takes place. The 10-C then get to see the full scope of what they did: Book, the General and Tarka risked everything they did to save innocents at risk at the DMA, but the first two saw that communication and peace was more important than just blowing up the DMA, and were willing to lay down their lives to preserve the chance for peace. They resume communications, maybe they fix the general, which is a humbling experience and shows they aren't so different after all, since they all understand loss.
Anyone else have a problem with the communication with the 10-C and them learning the language? In one scene we have a character say that there message was too complicated and that they didn't know how to say all that. THEN, all of a sudden, they're communicating whole paragraphs of complex dialogue. Which is it? Can you fully translate the language or not? Also, with ALL of the Federation and ALL of Starfleet there at Earth, Tilly is the ONLY instructor and those are the ONLY Starfleet cadets???
1.) Jett Reno can be green screened into every episode just to deliver a wiseass quip and I will give it an up every time! 2.) 2 dead-not dead characters in one episode is at least 1 not dead character too many. 3.) Really hoping her role as President of Earth doesn't preclude Stacey Abrams from being the next Governor of Georgia!! 4.) The network didn't do Disco any favors by overlapping the last 3 episodes with Picard. Watching them back-to-back really showed the difference in story quality.
I truly wish they would go to 1 long story arcs instead of season long arcs. I think we would get better themes and narratives if they didn't have to keep 1 idea going through for the whole season
Pluto tv is showing Discovery in UK. Watched the last episode today. It will be showing it on a special channel just for the series for a few weeks, if you have not seen it.
Re: Reno - I read an interview with Tig where she talked about season 4. They did want Reno to have a larger role, but Tig's got young kids and someone (her wife I think) is still recovering from cancer, so she wanted to limit her potential Covid exposure.
And yet the phooking Ferret gives her a down. Misanthropic bastard!
If you actually listened, after he critiqued the scenes with her in it, he did said something about how he can only assume there is a behind the scenes reason for that and mentioned about it being awkward. So I'm not sure what the name calling is about there.
It's too bad, because I don't think this show has enough strong female characters
@@PageCreations name calling? I'm confused.
@@Knightfall182 which is pretty annoying considering how many female characters it has
After I watch every episode, the first thing I do is come right here to watch Ups and Downs! Well done! Love these videos! Makes the shows more enjoyable. Thank you!
You not only can stomach modern Trek but are enthusiastically passionate about it?
Let me guess, so far left that Marx looks conservative in comparison.
@@Vulpas Um.. what does politics have to do with me enjoying Star Trek? Seek help.
@@Blue_Cooper Because anyone who enjoys modern Star Trek needs to seek help. And you know I'm right lmao
@@Vulpas I've watched Star Trek since I was a kid. And I don't have to justify myself to some keyboard warrior. I can enjoy it. If you don't, then don't watch it. Simple. Go troll someplace else.
@@Blue_Cooper How many genders are there?
I just want to say thank-you Sean Ferrick and the entire Trekculture crew. Enjoying the Ups & Downs of each episode has become a part of the Star Trek: Discovery experience for me. I am looking forward to enjoying next season with you all!
“All love ends in grief”. Damn that line got me
The USS Mitchell reference was a welcome surprise but for me the mention of USS Yelchin like the USS Nog brought a tear to my eye
I think that losing the spore drive wasn't so much about the show saying "oh it'll take forever to get home now"
I think it was more showing that the crew was willing to take the entirely and completely possible chance that they could be stranded literally half a galaxy away from home after blowing it up.
In doing so they put all others above their own wants, needs, and safety.
I mean yeah but also no? because they didn't really come to that decision collectively, their captain said so and they were like OK
@@parsapourkaveh7492 That is how a military unit works, yes.
True but they've also done this before when they went to the future in the first place.
@@parsapourkaveh7492 well, really that happens in every command decision. Think about the poor shmucks in engineering who had no idea Captain Kirk was willing to self destruct the ship in “Let that be your last battlefield”. They would have been, “hey, could you give me a hand adjusting this plasma injector” and “Kablooey!” without any warning.
At the point where the drive needed to be destroyed to exit the orb there was still the possibility to recover books/experimental spore drive but that went out the window when his ship was destroyed.
Kinda killed that stranded feeling temporarily.
I call this season like the opposite of TOS episode "The Devil in The Dark". In that episode, they were mining for Pergeum in Janus IV and in the process were destroying the Horta's eggs without knowing it. Now species 10C was mining for boromite without knowing they were killing people in destroying the planets.
I think you're right. She may very well have been green-screened on the bridge!
"Tig Notaro was asked to reprise her recurring guest role of Jett Reno in the season for two different filming blocks. She chose NOT to travel to Toronto for filming in November 2020 due to the pandemic, but hoped that conditions would be safer in May 2021 to allow her to travel for the second block; Notaro confirmed in May 2021 that she was in Toronto to film ALL of her scenes for the season over TWO WEEKS."--Wikipedia
After 4 seasons - I think my favourite character is Admiral Vance - I'd love to see him helm a series! David Cronenberg is welcome to join him - fantastic performance!
If they do the Starfleet Academy series and set it in the Discovery era, hopefully Admiral Vance will stick around.
"Dadmiral"
The Admiral was a great character
Very refreshing to see a Star Trek Admiral that isn't evil and ready to turn n Starfleet!
Reno was greenscreened in, the entire season - Tig Notaro is immunocompromised from cancer treatment and they didn't want to risk exposing her to COVID.
My mom had cancer. She gets a god-damned pass.
@@colonelquack Mine too, and agree.
She wasnt on greenscreen all the time
@@noizW I mean, that is what she said in an interview. I guess it's possible you know something she doesn't.
@@chasethevioletsun9996 I was watching while writing (they were at Books ship), and it didn't look greenscreened, i read about it and you're right - the scenes on Books ship were real, the other all greenscreened
This is like the most Reno we've seen this season, and I'm just relieved she survived the finale, since she started out 2 episodes ago getting kidnapped by destroy-the-universe Tarka. For that matter, I'm glad that TIlly and Vance survived too, it would have been just like them to go out . The near miss with Kayla being a possible sacrifice was also a heart flip moment too. Also Stamets and Culber finally got their vacation, the whole family was stayed alive, and I'm just so happy they're ok for once, I didn't even care about the rest of the episode.
Also Stacey Abrams deserves to be the president, NOW!
Seru and Serena (SP?) Just the sweetest ending.
When they mentioned a several decade long warp back to the Federation I did think they might do a VOY situation for season 5 and I didn't hate that idea but I was glad they didn't go in that direction.
Reno is criminally and obviously underused since she joined the crew. what a cool character!
They really need to use her more. So annoying how underused she is. Even in this last episode she does something awesome, and then she goes away. I don't get it.
Alas, Tig Notaro has limited availability because she likes doing her stand up.
I do agree she is great 👍
She isn’t in this season too much as tig is sick with cancer I believe so couldn’t film too much
Was watching The Office clips on YT, and saw a quick bit with Tig Notaro playing a mother who brought her daughter in to apologize to Michael for beating him up in the parking lot earlier. Just neat to notice an actor doing other work.
One last thing for Cetacean Observations, when discussing the 10-C as being a whole the Borg were mentioned which if I'm not mistaken is the first time the Borg are mentioned in Discovery.
If Borg were decimated around 2400 and never made a recovery, it seems odd that they would be remembered that easy the 32nd century.
@@TheBntimmins It's not that odd if you were paying attention in history class.
Not that I wanted book to stay dead, but him being saves by the 10C after all felt I was cheated out of a great moment of subverting tropes. It was so refreshing that the beam-out-at-the-last-second-while-ship-is-exploding thing for once failed to work. I hoped they'd stick with that, after they already did the "na, we good, even got seconds to spare" thing previously at the barrier, not waiting for the clock to be absolute lim(0) to just make it.
Reno is my fav. It is unfortunate Tig hasn't been able to do as much as she'd probably want to with Discovery. She is a survivor of cancer, which is what her comedy routines were originally based on. She may have a lowered immune system due to previous chemo, so she is considered high risk for COVID. She did so many of her scenes one on one or edited in. But even with her limitations, I loved seeing her in every scene she was in. The small parts still added a lot.
I only just started watching Disco a couple weeks ago, and just finished S4 last night. I wasn't 100% sold on it at first, but now I can say with certainty that it's an absolutely brilliant show. 😌
When Tarka and Book were talking about Kalarysis (?) and how all the people he would encounter there were people who had died and who therefore could not be real, and yet how desperate Tarka was to get there, well...it all reminded me of ST Generations and Soran trying to get back to the Nexus. Do you agree?
A great moment was when Book spoke to the 10C, after they said they'd move their mining device, and he's like, "that's not good enough".
I loved that.
You should come on next years Star Trek Cruise!! I was there and it was so cool that you mentioned it! I was at Kenneth Mitchell’s rave and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life!!
I thought with the spore drive down, season 5 will be Star Trek Discovery…. Voyager!!
Seán ye bollox i struggled with my emotions with this episode 13 as i do now again watching this 1 year on from my Dad passing, your description on Book is spot on and the episode was an emotional rollercoster, from one irishman to another keep up the good work ye fecker.
As to the USS Mitchell, I didn't know that about the actor Mitchell. I just assumed it was named after Gary Mitchell.
200 years ago they harnessed Strange Energies and used them to clean dirty buildings across the galaxy.
Same, actually
I thought it was General William Mitchell.
Why not both?
My BIG DOWN was simple. There was the prototype MK2 Spore Drive on Book's ship. Why didn't Book or Baddie send that back too?
Tig Notaro shot all of her scenes for the season in two weeks which explains how little she was in it. She wasn’t comfortable travelling in the early pandemic so that was all they could get her for at the end of shooting.
Big thumbs up from me for Culber going back to Puerto Rico for vacation and having some mavi. Would loved to see what Puerto Rico looks like in the future
siempre sera la isla del encanto I agree that was dope to be represented like that
President Terina was a really great character this season. She manages to distill a perfect balance between the logical Vulcan outlook alongside an acceptance and embracing of emotions - the perfect representative of Vulcans and Romulans reunited.
To all the people who said Discovery isn't real star trek. I think this season/episode is the definition star trek. They Sought out new life/civilizations for peaceful understanding and cooperation.
Idk they're getting a little after school special-esque
I agree - but they sure took their time getting there - Picard had settled 5 trade disputes before breakfast
sorry.... four.
Yes I completely agree. IT IS STAR TREK and and my IMDB review says that!
@@JohnnyWednesday 😅
This has been my favourite Discovery season so far. Sure, there are some of the usual plotholes and story issues near the end of the season that we've come to expect from Discovery, but I thought the way they portrayed the emotional state and interpersonal relationships between the characters was very well done, as well as the moments of focus on mental health. Also, I really liked the acting in this season, especially from Soneque Martin-Green. She's just fenomenal.
I must disagree. For me the heavy focus on interpersonal relationship dialogue was too clunky, over emphasised and misplaced. Don't get me wrong, I'm mentally ill myself and I appreciate discussion of the topics - and irl people should talk out their emotions far more than is the norm - BUT it feels really inappropriate here. For a start there is screen time, having characters discuss their feelings at length, after we just watched a scene in which the actors depicted those feelings perfectly well for the audience, does eat up the time available for plot development. Secondly, it breaks the plot. Several times this season we have ticking clocks started;
'we have 5 minutes to macgyver the mcguffin or we all die!'
Followed by
'First I need to tell you about my feelings and how what you said was important for me and made me realise a new point of view, and I'd like to 5hank you and validate your own experiences...'
It was bad enough in the red angel Arc when there is a massive space battle to buy time for Michael to get through a wormhole or time portal or whatever, and she stiops to have a five minute heart to heart with Spock.... while people are dying in the background...
But this season it seemed to be several times an episode that urgency was dismissed to discuss emotional character development.
Put elsewhere in the story or told in less clunky fashion, and I'd be as enthusiastic as yourself but too often I was following the time stamp on the play bar to see how much time was left to do the task at hand.
On the 2nd up, you gave it to the USS Mitchell, named for an actor who played various characters on prior series and episodes. I think you should have given another up to the USS Yelchin, named after Anton Yelchin, Kelvin time-line's Chechov, who tragically was killed right after Star Trek Beyond. You mentioned it in Cetacean Observations, but personally I think it would have honored his memory more as an up.
I believe he did that in a previous video earlier in the season (or last season?) when the ship was first introduced.
You wrote this before the end huh?
@@KalEL224 You wrote this before reading the end huh?
@@aaronring4704 For me ups are moments when I unexpectedly get a smile on my face, the USS Mitchell did it, but the USS Yelchin did it too, especially since it was so close to Anton's birthday. Anton was born on 11 March 1989.
@@jpspitzersf joke doesn’t work with my comment sunshine
I was reminded of Cassidy Yates, who faced incarceration and was as affirmed by Sisko as she was taken away as was Book by Burnham.
Regarding the Book death fake-out, I actually felt right from the start that was going to happen. It just didn't feel right that an important character like him was going to die like that. I also didn't really feel that Tilly and Vance would be killed off. If nothing else, I would've been very peeved off if she had, as a lot of shows just bring characters back so they can kill them off. Although, I did worry about them sitting and drinking on the edge of that upper level while the whole station's getting REALLY knocked about every few seconds. I thought either one of them was going to plummet to their deaths! I'd like to submit a couple of additional Ups for the episode. Firstly, Jeff Russo made some REALLY good music for this episode which I felt stood-out a lot. There's a powerful, uplifting choral piece that plays during the montage near the end, of everyone being reunited, Saru's with T'Rina, Earth's safe etc. Also, the VFX was gorgeous, especially with that shot of Starfleet HQ and the whole of Starfleet over Earth at the end.
am I the only one who thinks that the 10C are a modern take on the "encounter at farpoint creature" ?
I loved this season
The message behind the series (communication) is Star Trek at its core and that is the most important
I guess its not Trek if they don't kill a major character and bring them back in the following scene. Makes me miss the Culber gap. That was a true gut punch. 🖖
I think that all the communication scenes were kind of a waste because in the end, the breakthrough came after T'rina contacted them telepathically. I know that it came at cost to her physically, but the risk was worth it because of the urgency of the situation. It seems like they should've just brought a bunch of telepaths to try to contact them. If T'Rina could've contacted them the whole time in 5 minutes even if it was unlikely to work, they should've tried it first, and learned 10-C's language later.
As for Book and Ndoye, they should both be imprisoned for life. We saw a large asteroid break through the planetary shields of Earth and cause massive damage. Millions of people were probably killed either in the shockwave if it was on land or by tsunami if it was at sea. If the two of them hadn't interrupted communications, those people would not have died. Not to mention that the only reason Earth and Nivar are currently at risk and there is this counting clock in the first place is because Book assisted Tarka to stop the first DMA.
If the series needed a counting clock Discovery and its crew could've discovered that the DMA was not natural after they had destroyed the first one or they could've destroyed it accidentally when trying to study it because Tarka wanted the device and did something risky. Then, the rest of the season could've been them trying to fix their mistake collectively working together as Tarka realises how much damage he is causing. It could've been a redemption story for all of Discovery.
I really did not enjoy this season as a whole. Most of it seemed wasted by things that were only there to cause drama when the threat of a solar system eating anomaly is generating enough drama and urgency anyway.
USS Yelchin made me smile
Your instinct was correct. Tig Notaro filmed her scenes for the entire season in a 3-day period.
As described in other comments, there were major health concerns that the production team had to deal with both for Tig and in Toronto/Ontario at that time. To limit her Covid exposure, she was only up here for about a week.
The whole loss of the spore drive I knew wasn't going to be an issue. Either because Book's ship had one too or the Ten-C giving them a way. However, part of me was hoping it would setup the next season as a trek to get home much like Voyager.... lasting maybe only half a season.
Sean, thank you for the wonderful reviews.I loved the ending of the show and I love how you ended this particular version of your show .
A big easter egg for me? Starfleet HQ over earth really reminded me of Earth Spacedock! Is this Starfleet HQ returning home after all this time?
Commenting as we go here. Up to @ 13:00 totally on board with all the ups & downs. As for the 'Book is DEAD! Oh great! He's back!' I understand your down now...now that I'm reasonably sober...but when I watched it I was DEEP into St. Patrick's mode and I cried, then cheered. But yes, you are correct. That was just milking the viewer for an emotional response...and due to my Texas Vodka fueled viewing I fell for it...Tilly and Vance? 👍👍 for me this week. Cetacean Observations this week: spot on. As for season 4 of Discovery, overall I was very entertained. Thank you so much for doing these Ups & Downs, Sean!
As for Reno's under-use throughout this season(s) - and I say this with love for the character's charm, and respect to Tig Notaro, truly - is that she is not an actor (she's a stand-up comic) and so tends to get the witty one-liners but not more than that. I think she has attested to this in interviews.
up for USS Nog and USS Yelvich
Yeah most tv shows now wait 5 to 15 minutes before going to opening credits… keeps the audience from channel surfing and finding something else to watch that grabs their attention. If they stay for the opener then they are less likely to go elsewhere with their 30 second attention span.
So Tilly is back?
I dunno- but she’s in the thumbnail and because Pluto TV doesn’t have catch up I have to wait to watch it live….
Thanks for that.
I really liked this season. I've liked them all. Great job recapping and giving us a look at any missed easter eggs.
I love the fact that even when you guys don't like something about Star Trek you can express that displeasure without being a jerk to anyone who does like it. Keep up the great work.
Tarka's disregard of lifes actually reminds me of how an early episode of stargate, as well as Doctor who handled alternate universes. The inhabitants of the protagonist's native universe are people, they're being protected, but no one (inkl the audience) gives a sht about the inhabitants of the alternate universe, like they're just copies of the prime universe, like they're not even real. Tarka didn't care about the people of earth and ni'var because in his mind, they aren't people, only the people in his target universe are people. It's a classic alternate universe episode, just from the other side of the wormhole /portal /whatever allows transdimensional travel.
Did anyone else see it this way?
Yeah. I thought it was an interesting flip of the trope. It also made his character seem like an interesting metaphor for religious fanaticism, willing to kill for a potential other perfect life. All in all, I really enjoyed it as a character trait for Tarka
Who was the episode dedicated to?
Season 1 Discovery would probably have taken Tarka's plan and presented it as the good option. Or at least the threat of it. It's encouraging to see how far this show has come from the grim-dark&edgy atmosphere of that first year.
Many thanks for all the insights this season Sean. Looking forward to more in Season 5.
The 10C reveal almost felt like the Leviathan in ME3 reveal. But I do 100% agree on Tarka. They could have, should have done so much more with him but didn't so his death was like...ok gone, moving on.
I didn't believe they would have killed off Book, his ability to empathically communicate was too convenient of an ability to not use with the 10C.
I loved Tilly and Vance drinking whisky believing its their end, I just love it. Well we got 2hrs, let's walk about life regrets!
Finally finished! Amazing Season! Looking forward to Season 5, and this time, I will hang week by week!
Presto-changeo button...I'm still not used to the detached nacelles.
Personally I never got into tarka at all. I didn’t hate him or feel sorry for him. I just found him very urgh! But actually on whole as always I am pretty forgiving with these things and generally enjoyed the season. 💚
I am very much of the opinion that sometimes, you just have to commit to killing a main character.
And that having TWO fake out deaths in the same episode is bad form.
I've overall liked this season, but they should have killed Book or the General, or both.
I'm not sad that we potentially get more Book going forward, but it takes away from the emotional weight of the episode with how they set it up, and it takes away the feeling of stakes for characters going forward.
Couldn't agree more...
I loved the scene with the 10c - but book coming back was a bit obvious and I think it would be better if they just let him beam on board frankly! But still loved the communication with 10c and was quite emotional. And tilly ahh so lovely to see her. So hoping she will be back more. Not sure why hardly in this season, disappointed about that x
I am so glad I found this. I don't follow US news that much but I do know who Stacey Abrams is from a podcast I listened to last year. OMG You blew me away when you said she played the president. How fun is that?! What a great little bonus to end off the season. Thank you!! 😃
Been a subscriber for some time now. Just wanted to say I really dig your channel. Thank you and keep it up! 🖖🏽
When Tarka came to the end of his plot-line, I couldn't help thinking:
If the energy of his explosive end actually sent him to Kaylise--I hope whomever he met there promptly beat the holy living ego out of him.
I thought this season was a great season with some lows but with many more strong high points/scenes. They more than compensated for those that were weak.
Keep on with the "Ups and Down"!!!
These videos are are all "Ups' in my book!
I believe you are about to replace Trekyards as my first stop for Trek reviews.
Thank you Sean for sharing your thoughts and your UP an Downs
I would have bought the 'decades return home' bit if it was played like 'Voyager'. It could have been a next-season arc but alas, they didn't go that way.
I thought this was a really good series finale. No cliff hangers; every storyline wrapped up nicely. No further seasons necessary.
Tarka was such a promising character. I loved the episode with him and Oros. But then everything went downhill and he became "meh" again. It's too bad because the actor was really good.
Just like Lorca, Leeland and the toxic white guy from last year... he had to die 😄
The actor was fabulous on the Expanse.
Yeah - I was very disappointed that his arc ended up being basically the same as Malcolm McDowell's character from Generations.
How many death fake-outs were there in this episode?
Huh. I hear "Mitchell", and I think Gary Mitchell.
PS, I was on that cruise. Rave was too late at night for me, but I do know the rumors.
Same 😂
just finished bingewatching the entire season on Paramount Plus, I think it works better that way if they're going to do one continuous story
What I found a bit bad was that T'Rina "suddenly" can communicate with the 10C telepathically - like... we could have really used that last week already...! And how far they have come from texting "3
That's not at all what happened. T'Rina read the 10-C's mind, she did not communicate anything. She also injured herself pretty badly while reading their mind.
@@LePedant hmm… that might be correct. However, why didn‘t she do it before? That was my main point. She „suddenly“ realizes „hey wait a sec - I can read their minds“.
@@2squared Because T'Rina didn't know if she could or not. She said "if" she can connect, she "may" be able to communicate. Then Saru followed up with how dangerous it is to connect with an unknown species. She chose to try then because they only had 4 hours, it was a last resort. A last resort that clearly hurt her.
Forget the telepathy bit, what about going from "I don't think we can explain a concept such as individuality" to an hour later, give multiple Oscar speeches about feelings and shit and having the conversation flow as smooth as silk.
Commander Jett Reno played by Tig Notaro. This person should get the award for most badass names ever. Keep in mind Tig played a Commander Lazer in The Fungies and Yeast Week MC in the show Tuca & Bertie.
For the whole season, the fact that Book and Tarka acted like the 10-C could not just rebuild the power source boggles my mind - for them to think destroying it would save the day, do you not realize that they could just build it again - and be angry that you destroyed it?
the opening with federation hq warping in was cool as fuck, how can that not get an up. otherwise great vid
Did anyone else get the vibe like perhaps there was some doubt while writing this season as to the show being renewed for a fifth and they wanted to wrap things up real nice and neat just in case?
Yes, I was thinking this would be the perfect end for the series if so.
Thanks for your coverage
There was a split second where the spore drive blew up I thought this is the set up for season 5, getting back home voyager style but with all these extra politician people and relationships going on, but glad I was wrong
I guess Tig Notaro was green screened in all the time. She doesn't really seens to interact with anyone, like she was not really there on the set. She also filmed that Netflix movie all by herself and a green/blue screen in the back (Army of the Dead, I believe)
Great video thank you!
i think you missed a BIG down with the volkan telepathic communication seen "ohh i can all of a sudden communicate telepathically with them" why did she not do that before all of the light show and pheromone stuff
Good evening Sean, I did like this episode. It was a as good AS I EXPECTED and YES the alien reveal was good As for Book I didn't care if he lived or died. I did enjoy Tilly and Admiral Vance scenes, LOVE the Saru and T'Rina scenes. I would like to see the Discovery go more on missions to find NEW worlds and continue to reconnect Federation worlds NEXT season and HAVE an adversary LIKE the Tholians or Specie 8472 OR A NEW BAD
I don't understand emptying the Bridge of the primary officers during what is still a tense situation, that out of everything took me out of it. I actually was looking forward to at least one season of them getting back to the Federation and actually exploring.
I would add that 10-C appearance is much like how Spock stated how the Kelvans an other outer-galatic race would look like. Giant size with hundreds of tentacles.
Honestly I really disliked Ndoye. I guess she was honorable in a way, but she was such an unthinking military type, the antithesis of everything we're supposed to value in this universe. I also really felt like the bit with Book was just too much of a fake-out. I like that Burnham doesn't lose everything again, she deserves it, but it was a cheap trick. I almost thought though that we'd have season 5 as a mini-Voyager arc though. I'd have totally been down for that!
And with Abrams, I hope the people who are upset keep watching Star Trek and come to take on more of Trek's values and someday understand how what she is fighting for is that hopeful future. There's good reason to be cynical about most politicians, even those on my own side, but she is absolutely not one of them and this made me so happy.
I always have a problem with aliens like 10C who are represented a big globs of body forms with lots of stringy octopus style tentacles who are supposedly able to recreate complex machinery spheres (with simulated interiors that match the Discovery bridge) which would likely require the aliens to have hands and fingers and thumbs similar to humans to be able to build such craft or devices like humans would. Star Trek and many other shows before this one have been guilty of showing up such creatives as highly advanced who lack physical appendages capable to build such things. Unless they build the devices strictly with tele-kinesis or mind powers. Science fiction should have some plausible creatives who could build such things. Perhaps not many people ponder this when watching but I do. Seems humorous when thinking about it.
I am more disturbed by them not being able to stop books ship and also how they unable to sustain hyperfield with boronite being so powerful if they are so advanced. I wish they retcon it and actually next season we find out they needed boronite in order to sustain galactic barrier
No one has mentioned this, but the scene with the 10-C learning to communicate reminds me of the (really good) movie Arrival, which also deals with a language that is not linear.
Hello from the Caribbean, your channel is the go to..., awesome reviews!!!
I think it would have been interesting and better for the General to survive ramming, like being pushed by some sort of safety system onto Book's ship. Seeing her is the thing that brings Tarka out of the death spiral he's in. He sets things to send them back to Discovery, but the signal is lost, but picked up by the 10-C.
Rather than the death fake out, the 10-C clumsily let Discovery know they have their two people, and the meeting takes place. The 10-C then get to see the full scope of what they did: Book, the General and Tarka risked everything they did to save innocents at risk at the DMA, but the first two saw that communication and peace was more important than just blowing up the DMA, and were willing to lay down their lives to preserve the chance for peace. They resume communications, maybe they fix the general, which is a humbling experience and shows they aren't so different after all, since they all understand loss.
4 seasons of a show with the abbreviation “Disco” and STILL no dance off to save the universe!
My stepdad's brother with ALS died last week...
Anyone else have a problem with the communication with the 10-C and them learning the language? In one scene we have a character say that there message was too complicated and that they didn't know how to say all that. THEN, all of a sudden, they're communicating whole paragraphs of complex dialogue. Which is it? Can you fully translate the language or not? Also, with ALL of the Federation and ALL of Starfleet there at Earth, Tilly is the ONLY instructor and those are the ONLY Starfleet cadets???
1.) Jett Reno can be green screened into every episode just to deliver a wiseass quip and I will give it an up every time!
2.) 2 dead-not dead characters in one episode is at least 1 not dead character too many.
3.) Really hoping her role as President of Earth doesn't preclude Stacey Abrams from being the next Governor of Georgia!!
4.) The network didn't do Disco any favors by overlapping the last 3 episodes with Picard. Watching them back-to-back really showed the difference in story quality.
Tig Notaro, is easily becoming my favorite actor!!!
I truly wish they would go to 1 long story arcs instead of season long arcs. I think we would get better themes and narratives if they didn't have to keep 1 idea going through for the whole season
Pluto tv is showing Discovery in UK. Watched the last episode today. It will be showing it on a special channel just for the series for a few weeks, if you have not seen it.
I really liked the dress uniform at the end here, reminded me of the old maroon jumpers
One more thing to add to Cetacean Ops: Starfleet HQ uses Voyager's red alert klaxon. Thought that was a nice touch!
I loved seeing hugh finally going on a vacation with paul.
FYI Stacy Abrams also was involved in de-fund the police while spending $1.2 million on privet security, not a good look
For a moment I thought the next season might be about Discovery doing it Voyayer style with Tilly taking Lieutenant Barckley's place.