I think you nailed it. Wwe really ever since Brock left aside from John cena wwe has gone painstaking out of their way to make the brand the star and not wwe
It’s not just a wrestling thing megastars don’t really exist in any medium anymore. The closest thing would be someone like Taylor swift but even she’s not at the level people used to get to. Everyone has internet and tons of different forms of entertainment at their finger tips, so it’s not the same as years ago when everyone watched the same few things
Taylor Swift is about the closest you have, yes. Part of it is that people are really scared anymore of someone becoming "bigger than the business" -- regardless of the business.
Nothing can really dominate pop culture the way things did in decades past. Everything has become niched out and something could be really popular or known in one section and completely unknown in another. The MCU and Game of Thrones are likely the last new(ish) things that will dominate or have a strong pop culture foothold because they came up right as the internet and social media really exploded to allow every type of fandom and niche to have their own space. Think about something like Ted Lasso or Succession. I hear how great both shows were, but next to no one in my circle is really into them and I am not in a rush to check them out. Or the 50 Cent shows with Power and BMF, or something like P-Valley. All have big audiences and following, but none quite break through to have a mainstream foothold like The Sopranos or Law and Order. John Cena and Brock are likely the last wrestlers that will ever get true mainstream appeal, with Roman being the closet that the business will get to that level. Add in WWE really going full NFL where they want the brand, not individuals, to be the star and a star the level of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Macho Man probably can exist in this environment.
Glad you included the curated nature of pop culture of yesteryear. Most younger people have no understanding of how different it was back in the tail end of the last century.
OK and how about other promotions? None of them really created megastars on the same level WWE did with Hogan and Austin. Or all these promotions secretly owned by Vince?
2004-2006 was a wake up call for Vince. During this time Austin, rock, brock, angle, and Jeff hardy left. That is when the wwe became the star. It is a lesson the nfl learned early and the nba found out after Jordan retired.
It's funny with Logan Paul and his draw. Back when he started wrestling for them I heard two kids who aren't really wrestling fans talk about it, which was neat, but then when it came to Rey Mysterio wrestling his son well that got talked about a bit more, even my amateur wrestling coach asking me about it.
Spot on with your assessment. Also, to piggyback off the affects the internet has had splintering viewers, I think in most instances the over-saturation of certain people can lead to viewer fatigue as well. In a society that has a more cynical and jaded view on literally everything, that plays a big part as well. Just my thoughts on it.
And all through the history of pro wrestling there's always been one megastar who literally defined a Pop Culture Generation in the 50's Gorgeous George was considered one of televisions FIRST so-called "TV stars" and later you had Bruno Sammartino ,and you can ask any italian-american from that era ,who probably fell out of Love with Wrestling after the 60's ,they'll ALWAYS talk about "Bruno at the Garden" cause he was a part of their youth.(he was almost Bruce Springsteen Mythic).but it started to fade during the 60's and 70's then it came roaring back in the 80's with Hulk Hogan(and his Rock n Wrestling/Hulkamainia) and Nature Boy Ric Flair becoming this Cult Hero Figure in the South. then of course we had the Monday Night wars with acts like the NWO/DX/ECW/Goldberg that reflected 1990's teen attitudes in their version of Pro wrestling. but in this era? ANYONE can be "Famous" because if the Internet and 500 cable channels. and side note: any schmuck can create a podcast on their phone app(i have a podcast)and gain a bunch of fans or have something go Viral. Roman Reigns will never define a Pop Cutlure Generation like a Hogan,Piper,Austin,Rock, did in the 80's and 90's and Kenny Omega/The Bucks/AEW etc will always be Wrestling Stars..no more, no less
Great video Dave, so who falls into the "not just wrestling famous but megastars" list besides hogan,Andre, the Rock , Austin and ( i guess) Cena? Does time lessen the impact? (Bruno was big in his time but most people woudnt know him now, as is happening to Andre as more and more people are born who have never seen him)
I say the list is just Austin, Hogan and the Rock. And yes time can definitely diminish things. As I feel like Austin is not as well known as he used to be, but in the Attitude Era he was more famous as the Rock. It's weird
Great Video. Yeah I definitely see Films now mostly for the plot and sometimes for who has Written & Directed. More Film fans every are becoming more interested in what’s behind the camera such as myself as most of the time those people are more interesting than actors
Fantastic video Dave! For what it’s worth, I think the last era of superstars that really happened to transcend that “wrestling famous” only label is probably mid-late 2000’s. I’m talking John Cena, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, maybe even RVD & CM Punk. And while I think Daniel Bryan is more popular amongst casuals than others are willing to admit, I don’t know that I put him in that category just yet
One thing that hasn't been mentioned ufc it uses the wwe business model and is a legitimate sport imo it has the same buzz as 90s wrestling and still has big stars like conor McGregor for example
YES, a new Dave Knows video. Love this informative channel man. I'll comment before I watch this and after. Before I watch I'll say it's because usually bad booking and owners these days usually are bad at creating larger than life mega stars. Okay, now I'll watch. Speaking of Mistah Jay, did you hear that Arleen Sorkin, the voice actress that did the voice of Harley Quinn, just died this month at 67? That makes sense, WWE as a brand, I see that. Algorithm and more choices, more good points.
So in other words, its not really Pro Wrestling fault for not having megastars. Other factors outside Pro Wrestling play a role too. Since Pro Wrestling is just a niche nowadays like everything else.
That's not what I said at all. I blatantly gave reasons why it is wrestling's fault as well. Yet something else the internet loves doing, oversimplifying and refusing to accept that there are multiple reasons for why something happens
great video, it all depends on charisma, looks. Brock can be world famous but he ain't John Cena famous. That tribal chief guy can be famous but not bigger than he is right now
There isn't really anyone currently that can actually break out of being just wrestling famous into the worldwide level. Not everyone can be a Rock/Hogan/Austin level star.
There is one and only megastar with everybody saying LA KNIGHT yeaaahh all jokes aside i see LA knight everywhere nowadays and he has the best selling merch
Maybe someday WWE will have such a charismatic and good performer in the ring and on the mic again that they would become a mega star again. But that could be decades from now. Had WWE pushed CM Punk in his prime maybe he could’ve been one, but we will never know for sure. And no modern wrestler I think would have that level of pull even if they were pushed.
WWE became a monolith and systematically ended all avenues for true "stardom". Each "generation" of star/main eventer had less and less exposure and freedom to get themselves over. Just compare Cena and even Brock to The Rock and Stone Cold. It took Cena forever to make a name for himself in Hollywood, his WWE "fame" didn't transfer. Brock had to leave the sport for another before being recognized etc. Early Roman is the ultimate culmination of the WWE's perfected artificial "star". Not over with the crowd, unknown outside of wrestling (even today) so not chance of him leaving. Not charismatic and can read off whatever cringe PC PG script he is handed. Of course this safety ended up backfiring and they hand to walk it back a bit.
Why would you compare the episode where Daniel Bryan announced his return as a surprise to Edge's announced return? It literally means nothing about DB's star power since it wasn't announced And how can you confirm thatvwas Daniel Bryan's addition to the WrestleMania 37 main event that sold more tickets?
DBs announcement was a surprise but it was advertised that he would be making an announcement. And also it was specifically reported that Bryan was added because sales were below expectation but rebounded after Bryan was added
I feel like only the "They made Edge vs Roman a triple threat" point was solid when comparing Edge to Bryan. The fact that Bryan's announcement wasn't advertised means you can't cleanly credit Bryan for the rating the same way you could Edge. But as to your main point, I think it's pretty solid and have no notes
the real star power is when something wrong happening with the company, remember how many people watch Raw just to see what vince would say after his allegations.
A part of it is cause the wrestling business had changed over the years. Mostly everyone should know wrestling is staged and there's some that look at wrestling as, "oh that's that fake crap." or they just don't care for it like they used to back the late 90's when wrestling was at it's high. Even some wrestlers knows this so they do whatever they want that would get them at least their 15 minutes of fame but it won't draw attention for the long run.
@@DaveKnowsWrestling yes but it was less obvious. Stars like the Rock and Steve Austin made you suspend your disbelief even further than anyone could today
Look Im a big Attitude Era fan but if you're telling me that 'Stomping a Mudhole' and the Peoples Elbow and Stunning your boss after he testified that wrestling was indeed predetermined before the actual senate is less obvious then I dont know what to tell ya
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I'm not saying all that looked real to me but how they carried themselves made them look like a believable badass and definitely made the things they did entertaining.
I love how everyone in the WWE now is a superstar and if one of them dies they are legends. No offense but legends is thrown around way to much Terry Funk is a legend someone like Edge sorry not so much.
AGREED! WWE uses everything as a marketing term and it just waters down the meaning. Thats why we have people who think Roman Reigns is a megastar when most of the people on earth couldn't identify him if they were next to him on the elevator
Partially. But also that smarks piss on anyone they try to make the megastar. Look at the hate towards Cena and Reigns. If these fans were as vocal in the 80's, WWE would not exist.
No. He is not. It seems one of the hardest thing for wrestling fans is to try to understand how nonfans think. But if you explore outside the bubble you'll learn a lot
Yeah, it's exactly what you said. They made WWE, the actual company, the star. Because they are so comfortable in their current views and revenue they don't feel the need to put the spotlight on someone to draw numbers. Arguably, Roman Reigns is probably the last person they tried to make a megastar, but they failed and he's only hugely popular in the wrestling sphere. Otherwise, if they really wanted to draw in numbers, they'd push guys like LA Knight to the moon. Promote the hell out of him on every social media, book every talk show, and maybe a cameo in a movie or TV Show. But they'd rather stick to what they WANT since they don't have a NEED to do so.
For every Maga star there was an equal in ring star. For every Rock or Hogan there was Ric Flair and Bret Hart. Theres a reason why you can go from Hogan to the Rock because they are once in a generation star. Roman is not known outside of wrestling. If you stood Flava Flave next to Roman more people would know Flava Flave
Too much competition for eyeballs. Wrestling has become a niche entertainment and its biggest stars rarely register outside that niche.
Exactly everything is a niche nowadays.
I think you nailed it. Wwe really ever since Brock left aside from John cena wwe has gone painstaking out of their way to make the brand the star and not wwe
It’s not just a wrestling thing megastars don’t really exist in any medium anymore. The closest thing would be someone like Taylor swift but even she’s not at the level people used to get to. Everyone has internet and tons of different forms of entertainment at their finger tips, so it’s not the same as years ago when everyone watched the same few things
There was never really any big wrestling stars. Rock and Hogan and the only 2 I can recall and Ive been watching since 82
Taylor Swift is about the closest you have, yes.
Part of it is that people are really scared anymore of someone becoming "bigger than the business" -- regardless of the business.
Nothing can really dominate pop culture the way things did in decades past. Everything has become niched out and something could be really popular or known in one section and completely unknown in another. The MCU and Game of Thrones are likely the last new(ish) things that will dominate or have a strong pop culture foothold because they came up right as the internet and social media really exploded to allow every type of fandom and niche to have their own space. Think about something like Ted Lasso or Succession. I hear how great both shows were, but next to no one in my circle is really into them and I am not in a rush to check them out. Or the 50 Cent shows with Power and BMF, or something like P-Valley. All have big audiences and following, but none quite break through to have a mainstream foothold like The Sopranos or Law and Order.
John Cena and Brock are likely the last wrestlers that will ever get true mainstream appeal, with Roman being the closet that the business will get to that level. Add in WWE really going full NFL where they want the brand, not individuals, to be the star and a star the level of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Macho Man probably can exist in this environment.
Glad you included the curated nature of pop culture of yesteryear. Most younger people have no understanding of how different it was back in the tail end of the last century.
They certainly do not, yet they're all hipsters clambering on to older stuff
Vince McMahon has done everything in his power to make it that way. No superstar/wrestler is bigger than the promotion itself.
OK and how about other promotions? None of them really created megastars on the same level WWE did with Hogan and Austin. Or all these promotions secretly owned by Vince?
@@MadCaril what major promotion existed between 2001-2019?
@@CMDHistoriaWhat major promotions existed from 2001-2023? And no, AEW doesn’t count. They’re still a niche audience as well.
@@zlinedavid I made the same point, and I agree with you on AEW.
2004-2006 was a wake up call for Vince. During this time Austin, rock, brock, angle, and Jeff hardy left. That is when the wwe became the star. It is a lesson the nfl learned early and the nba found out after Jordan retired.
It's funny with Logan Paul and his draw. Back when he started wrestling for them I heard two kids who aren't really wrestling fans talk about it, which was neat, but then when it came to Rey Mysterio wrestling his son well that got talked about a bit more, even my amateur wrestling coach asking me about it.
Spot on with your assessment. Also, to piggyback off the affects the internet has had splintering viewers, I think in most instances the over-saturation of certain people can lead to viewer fatigue as well. In a society that has a more cynical and jaded view on literally everything, that plays a big part as well. Just my thoughts on it.
I agree, I feel it with commercials, I see the same ads over and over again and it makes me hate the product. Overexposure is real
Wrestling is niche again like before the initial Hulkamania run so people outside the wrestling bubble just don't pay attention anymore.
And all through the history of pro wrestling there's always been one megastar who literally defined a Pop Culture Generation in the 50's Gorgeous George was considered one of televisions FIRST so-called "TV stars" and later you had Bruno Sammartino ,and you can ask any italian-american from that era ,who probably fell out of Love with Wrestling after the 60's ,they'll ALWAYS talk about "Bruno at the Garden" cause he was a part of their youth.(he was almost Bruce Springsteen Mythic).but it started to fade during the 60's and 70's then it came roaring back in the 80's with Hulk Hogan(and his Rock n Wrestling/Hulkamainia) and Nature Boy Ric Flair becoming this Cult Hero Figure in the South.
then of course we had the Monday Night wars with acts like the NWO/DX/ECW/Goldberg that reflected 1990's teen attitudes in their version of Pro wrestling. but in this era? ANYONE can be "Famous" because if the Internet and 500 cable channels. and side note: any schmuck can create a podcast on their phone app(i have a podcast)and gain a bunch of fans or have something go Viral. Roman Reigns will never define a Pop Cutlure Generation like a Hogan,Piper,Austin,Rock, did in the 80's and 90's and Kenny Omega/The Bucks/AEW etc will always be Wrestling Stars..no more, no less
Great video Dave, so who falls into the "not just wrestling famous but megastars" list besides hogan,Andre, the Rock , Austin and ( i guess) Cena? Does time lessen the impact? (Bruno was big in his time but most people woudnt know him now, as is happening to Andre as more and more people are born who have never seen him)
I say the list is just Austin, Hogan and the Rock. And yes time can definitely diminish things. As I feel like Austin is not as well known as he used to be, but in the Attitude Era he was more famous as the Rock. It's weird
Great video. I also like the point that even Hollywood doesn’t have megastars
Great Video. Yeah I definitely see Films now mostly for the plot and sometimes for who has Written & Directed. More Film fans every are becoming more interested in what’s behind the camera such as myself as most of the time those people are more interesting than actors
Fantastic video Dave! For what it’s worth, I think the last era of superstars that really happened to transcend that “wrestling famous” only label is probably mid-late 2000’s. I’m talking John Cena, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, maybe even RVD & CM Punk. And while I think Daniel Bryan is more popular amongst casuals than others are willing to admit, I don’t know that I put him in that category just yet
the current generation of wrestlers take more pride in workrate than developing a character. That doesn't appeal to the casual fans.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned ufc it uses the wwe business model and is a legitimate sport imo it has the same buzz as 90s wrestling and still has big stars like conor McGregor for example
Ayyyy what a treat to open up the day with !
Wrestling isn't really mainstream anymore, so it's not going to be easy to make mainstream stars from it. Unless they're also famous for other things.
Is it that wrestling isnt mainstream and thats why there are no megastars... or are there no megastars to make wrestling mainstream?
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I think more falls on the latter. No megastars to make it mainstream.
I would say Shawn Michaels is the poster boy for being wrestling famous
YES, a new Dave Knows video. Love this informative channel man. I'll comment before I watch this and after. Before I watch I'll say it's because usually bad booking and owners these days usually are bad at creating larger than life mega stars. Okay, now I'll watch. Speaking of Mistah Jay, did you hear that Arleen Sorkin, the voice actress that did the voice of Harley Quinn, just died this month at 67?
That makes sense, WWE as a brand, I see that. Algorithm and more choices, more good points.
So in other words, its not really Pro Wrestling fault for not having megastars. Other factors outside Pro Wrestling play a role too. Since Pro Wrestling is just a niche nowadays like everything else.
That's not what I said at all. I blatantly gave reasons why it is wrestling's fault as well. Yet something else the internet loves doing, oversimplifying and refusing to accept that there are multiple reasons for why something happens
great video, it all depends on charisma, looks. Brock can be world famous but he ain't John Cena famous. That tribal chief guy can be famous but not bigger than he is right now
brock and reigns combined in their peaks are not on cenas 2003-2008 level
I'd argue D-Bry was an actual star as arenas and stadiums full of fans watching other sporting events were doing the Yes chant as well.
That is a good point but WWE thought that the chant was over more than he was. And that most people doing it didnt know him. But good point
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Fair.
There isn't really anyone currently that can actually break out of being just wrestling famous into the worldwide level. Not everyone can be a Rock/Hogan/Austin level star.
It'd be really interesting to see the Q Scores for wrestling.
0:01 me too
There is one and only megastar with everybody saying LA KNIGHT yeaaahh all jokes aside i see LA knight everywhere nowadays and he has the best selling merch
hes a wrestling draw ,but not an actual megastar.......he has potential though wwe doesnt want megastars anymore
It's about time all you dummies woke up to Eli Drake!
He's 40 the odds of him hitting big are unlikely
He is not a megastar.
Maybe someday WWE will have such a charismatic and good performer in the ring and on the mic again that they would become a mega star again. But that could be decades from now. Had WWE pushed CM Punk in his prime maybe he could’ve been one, but we will never know for sure. And no modern wrestler I think would have that level of pull even if they were pushed.
It’s not just being famous. Being a wrestler is just different.
Also bad bunny competes in terms of celebs and numbers. But also it’s bad bunny
WWE became a monolith and systematically ended all avenues for true "stardom". Each "generation" of star/main eventer had less and less exposure and freedom to get themselves over. Just compare Cena and even Brock to The Rock and Stone Cold. It took Cena forever to make a name for himself in Hollywood, his WWE "fame" didn't transfer. Brock had to leave the sport for another before being recognized etc.
Early Roman is the ultimate culmination of the WWE's perfected artificial "star". Not over with the crowd, unknown outside of wrestling (even today) so not chance of him leaving. Not charismatic and can read off whatever cringe PC PG script he is handed. Of course this safety ended up backfiring and they hand to walk it back a bit.
Why would you compare the episode where Daniel Bryan announced his return as a surprise to Edge's announced return? It literally means nothing about DB's star power since it wasn't announced
And how can you confirm thatvwas Daniel Bryan's addition to the WrestleMania 37 main event that sold more tickets?
DBs announcement was a surprise but it was advertised that he would be making an announcement. And also it was specifically reported that Bryan was added because sales were below expectation but rebounded after Bryan was added
With everybody sayin'...
I feel like only the "They made Edge vs Roman a triple threat" point was solid when comparing Edge to Bryan. The fact that Bryan's announcement wasn't advertised means you can't cleanly credit Bryan for the rating the same way you could Edge.
But as to your main point, I think it's pretty solid and have no notes
That's fair but if you recall they advertised DB as making a major announcement to cap the show. So I will give it to him in that regard
the real star power is when something wrong happening with the company, remember how many people watch Raw just to see what vince would say after his allegations.
A part of it is cause the wrestling business had changed over the years. Mostly everyone should know wrestling is staged and there's some that look at wrestling as, "oh that's that fake crap." or they just don't care for it like they used to back the late 90's when wrestling was at it's high. Even some wrestlers knows this so they do whatever they want that would get them at least their 15 minutes of fame but it won't draw attention for the long run.
Everyone knew in the 90s that it was staged. So that isnt why
@@DaveKnowsWrestling yes but it was less obvious. Stars like the Rock and Steve Austin made you suspend your disbelief even further than anyone could today
Look Im a big Attitude Era fan but if you're telling me that 'Stomping a Mudhole' and the Peoples Elbow and Stunning your boss after he testified that wrestling was indeed predetermined before the actual senate is less obvious then I dont know what to tell ya
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I'm not saying all that looked real to me but how they carried themselves made them look like a believable badass and definitely made the things they did entertaining.
WWE made it clear that they weren't going to let anyone else become "bigger than the company" again.
I love how everyone in the WWE now is a superstar and if one of them dies they are legends. No offense but legends is thrown around way to much Terry Funk is a legend someone like Edge sorry not so much.
AGREED! WWE uses everything as a marketing term and it just waters down the meaning. Thats why we have people who think Roman Reigns is a megastar when most of the people on earth couldn't identify him if they were next to him on the elevator
Partially. But also that smarks piss on anyone they try to make the megastar. Look at the hate towards Cena and Reigns.
If these fans were as vocal in the 80's, WWE would not exist.
There's no such thing as a partial megastar. You're either world famous or you're not
Does Roman Reigns count as a megastar?
No. He is not. It seems one of the hardest thing for wrestling fans is to try to understand how nonfans think. But if you explore outside the bubble you'll learn a lot
Yeah, it's exactly what you said. They made WWE, the actual company, the star. Because they are so comfortable in their current views and revenue they don't feel the need to put the spotlight on someone to draw numbers. Arguably, Roman Reigns is probably the last person they tried to make a megastar, but they failed and he's only hugely popular in the wrestling sphere.
Otherwise, if they really wanted to draw in numbers, they'd push guys like LA Knight to the moon. Promote the hell out of him on every social media, book every talk show, and maybe a cameo in a movie or TV Show. But they'd rather stick to what they WANT since they don't have a NEED to do so.
heck not just wrestling the movie star is dead. Stardom has become a thing of the past as brand's overall ' has overtaken the individual as a whole
For every Maga star there was an equal in ring star. For every Rock or Hogan there was Ric Flair and Bret Hart. Theres a reason why you can go from Hogan to the Rock because they are once in a generation star. Roman is not known outside of wrestling. If you stood Flava Flave next to Roman more people would know Flava Flave
Though not a household name like scsa rock or even cena i think roman is currently the only legit megastar in wrestling
Then he wouldnt be a megastar now would he
@@DaveKnowsWrestling ehh. Imo he is. Atleast close to it
He's definitely not a mega star.
Well that was my exact point. Thanks for proving it