Was that the reason though? Ian mentioned some problems with the high pressure rounds, but it never actually got to that point and said it died due to a lawsuit.
@@alichi101 The original design, or the one modified to meet military spec? They never fixed the takedown issue from the original which was probably a requirement.
Pump action grenade launchers have a strick requirement regarding the length of grenade, which means newer longer grenades are not suitable for these weapons.
They're actually pretty common in the law enforcement market, here is one made by Penn Arms: www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
Would not fit. The law rocket however. Its base tube is the perfect size for a tennis ball. Had one once but my crack head cousin stole it. He never served, I did. God bless America.
"ok Marines, you get to pick one nice thing for yourself" Marine Corps: we demand STOVL in our next gen fighter that will ruin development even though the common chassis will have non interchangeable variants anyway.
I knew a Ranger that wanted to carry a 2" 12ga, because one blast will take out everyone in a room. If you let soldiers choose their own kit, they'll all be carrying Desert Eagles and Calicos.
@@gregsmall5939 Sadly, I think the number of people willing to pay $1500-plus to be able to fire three flares in rapid succession is vanishingly small.
@@gregsmall5939 P D's might be interested in them for riot duty. I'm not sure what the size the gas cartridges today are. But if they are still 37mm that would be one way to differentiate them from military weapons. At least in a legal situation. Truthfully the old Bloop Tube reminded me of the older tear gas launchers. It's just my opinion but the pump action looks like it would be far more user friendly in terms just carrying the damn thing. That revolving cylinder on the one that was adopted might work. But it's big. And yes they should have stuck to the Hi-Lo 40mm. At least in terms of chambering. I could see the idea behind being able to shoot flares if needed though. If they wanted to fiddle with the design (some things they did make sense) why not look at adapting say the Remington 1100 autoloader action. But only if it allowed a faster follow up shot without an increase in complexity. For sights a simple Red Dot optic that rotates on its mount for elevation. One question. Do they make 40mm Flash Bangs. If the US deploys troops into a combat situation I want them to win. If it takes killing the opposition fine. After all they had a choice and made it. But there are times when I could see it might be useful to take the opposition alive if possible. Intelligence for one thing. Another is why make a martyr out of somebody if killing them just helps create 2 or 3 new enemies.
@@mpetersen6 PDs already have access to 40mm pump-action launchers, if they want them: www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
Honestly, as soon as they had to redesign the whole thing for high pressure grenades it kind of defeated the purpose. Using the same grenades as the M203 makes the China Lake easy to resupply, especially in the field, since other soldiers can carry extra grenades for use in either their m203s or for the China Lake guy. It's a shame that the legal wrangling caused the whole project to fall apart in the end.
well, it was supposed to fire both high pressure and regular ones. It's just that, who would want to fire high pressure grenades? Anyone wants to lose a shoulder?
Bypass Vent the system to a muscle break **muzzle brake* that pushes the gun forward. That way you usw high power rounds, lose some max range and keep your shoulder. Yes ist a different design, but it's way easier in the ammunition department.
Yes, he should at least put the missing parts on it like the pistol grip and the stock. I mean they are common and available. The poor weapon looks totally naked.
The low loads have almost zero recoil. Try using high pressure it would explode into many bits, creating a hand held claymoore mine. Probably not a good idea...
Really too bad that they never produced them, and due to over-engineering too which is just dumb. I’d love to see the gun with a stock and grip though.
Microzombie just goofing around in AFG I tried mounting a 320, on a 249 and 240. It only fit on one of them. (I think the 240) but even then it wouldn’t lock onto the rail.
I know I mentioned it on Facebook page, but for those didn’t see it. At NO time we were planning to use HP rounds in an aluminum barrel. There was a conversation about HP rounds in the future and I even had a SS barrel on my desk, but just a conversation. Everything else is surprisingly accurate. For those that think I received information from someone else. I was the one reverse engineered and redesign this weapon system.
It’s a common trope in government agencies for everyone to stick their hand in the pot with their own two cents. It leads to severe scope creep because the government agencies are just a customer and the manufacturer has it in their best interest to just do everything that’s asked of them, no matter how pointless the feature is.
@@KinreeveNaku Did the Marine Corps actually *ask* for the ability to chamber high-pressure rounds? The video makes it seem like that was something Airtronic decided to do on their own.
@@Mr_T_Badger Yeah but its not as awesome as you might think. Gun is too light to handle a massive shotgun shot so its actually just scaled down ammo. But it sure is cool to think them putting some massive shotgun shells in them even tho thats not reality.
It actually was kind of broke, in that the original design wasn't optimized for mass production, had a known issue in the trigger guard/takedown lever, and needed to be updated for modern use.
Love this gun , I worked for airtronic and was involved in this project, you did get a couple of things wrong about why we lengthened the feed system , but all in all a pretty good summery of the weapon.
Hi, there's some not directly related but pretty cool grenade launcher from Poland, called Pallad M. It never goes beyond the prototype, but it's box-magazine fed semi-auto launcher, with delayed blow-back system I believe. Made by Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow, in Poland.
From the makers of "Mission Creep (TM)" try new and improved "Feature Creep (TM)!" Individual results may vary. May lead to presence patrols and/or being sent to find IEDs with your feet.
That story reminds me of the scene from "the Pentagon Wars" about the Bradley fighting vehicle development. "What if it had a big-ass cannon... oh! And amphibious!"
To be fair, the previous two USAr MICV programmes (MICV-65 and AIFV) had had cannon, the Germans were procuring the Marder, with cannon, to replace the HS.30, with cannon, the UK was developing the Warrior, with cannon, the French were developing the AMX-10P, with cannon, and the BMP had a much bigger cannon than anyone ever wanted to stick on the Bradley (and linking back into today's topic, the 73mm on the BMP is another High-Low Pressure system),
@@davidgillon2762 True, and, ultimately the Bradley was a pretty good platform by the time it was refined. Just a far cry from the "armored bus" concept. And, it was a development by mission-creep, not by intent. The movie was over the top, but Cary Elwes and Kelsey Grammer were hilarious.
@@IanCaine4728 It wasn't, though. It was intended, like the MICV and AIFV, to be an infantry fighting vehicle with a turreted autocannon, which was intended to allow the infantry to fight while mounted or dismounted, and to stay and contribute firepower to the infantry, rather than drop them off and leave (like an APC). There was no significant "mission creep" in the Bradley development; the closest there was was the reduction of size of the infantry squad (which was mandated by practical limits to the size of the vehicle), and it's adoption as a scout vehicle... which, fundamentally, was just replacing another tracked vehicle with the same intended armament, so that they didn't have to maintain a logistical base to support two vehicles that had near-identical capabilities.
@@bronco5334 Interesting. That's counter to everything I've ever read about the Bradley, I wonder if the book "the Pentagon Wars" skewed the record and just became the popular zeitgeist. Do you know of a good book or something that covers it's development? It's been awhile, but I know I read somewhere it was a replacement for the M59.
@@IanCaine4728 Oh, the book absolutely DID skew the record and misrepresent reality. The Chair Force chud that wrote the thing was a political hack, part of a group of morons that were convinced that weird minimalist designs were TeH bESteSt! Seriously, they wanted fighters with no radars or guns, they wanted 50 million M113 variants with various WW2-style weapons layouts, (and no modernization of infantry carriers beyond that), and they thought the 1950s-tech M48 tank with open, unprotected ammo stored all around the turret was more "survivable" than the M1 Abrams. No shit, they thought that strapping a 90mm gun onto an M113 in a casemate mount was TeH WeY oF THe FyUCheR!!! (and not just the less armored rendition of a 1930s era StuG that it, in fact, was) Why the hell anyone thought an airdale with absolutely no training or experience in mechanized ground warfare had ANYTHING of value to say about a tracked vehicle's merits is beyond me. Frankly, they were morons, who were seeking fame and notoriety by obstructing good projects.
To use it without the grip you put your thumb inside the screw hole, then press the trigger and pray to whoever you won't have to stitch it back. Alternatively rest it on your chest and bend a couple ribs
Check the Russian GM-94, it´s basically the realistic version of this, it has a pistol grip and a underbarrel wire stock. There is a cool 90s Ad of it on YT.
@@spiderjerusalem8284 More importantly, there's a booklet on it by two frequent guests of this channel: armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Russian-GM-94-Grenade-Launcher.pdf
an underbarrel China Lake attachment for an M60 with a heavy barrel sounds like the perfect combo to completely eradicate the Geneva convention, because asking if it's got too much power means it doesn't have enough power.
Fewer shots = Less weight when fully loaded Slimmer profile = MUCH easier to carry Familiar shotgun-like design = Less training needed No cylinder gap = No pressure leakage = Projectiles fly faster and farther (Slightly, but truly) How the hell did this thing NOT become standard-issue? I get that the times changed, then changed a second time, but did all of the military just FORGET that china lake existed or something? Done properly, this would have been a decent alternative to the MGL. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this would have beaten the MGL, had Airtronic not have gotten ahead of themselves with the engineering and the legal stuff.
Engineer: “This system has practical limitations, but, within its parameters, will serve its purpose exceptionally well.” Pentagon: No! We want it to be and do everything! $10 billion later, the project is abandoned.
@@Dragonstorm1557GAMING Just photoshop the launcher with a beautiful black melonite finish and AR-15 furniture (or with an SB3 brace to spite the ATF/DOJ Despots>: )
The mark II Version Sub assembly "B" Model with the clamp on option was renowned for helping the Grinch to "Steal Christmas" and that is why it is a so often seeked weapon around this time of year.
John Stryker Myer has mentioned that one of his team members carried an experimental pump action grenade launcher on one of their MACV-SOG missions..... I've been wondering if it was a China Lake. Thanks for these videos Ian!
My unit tested the M32 in Ramadi in 2006. We loved them because you could dump 6 rounds of 40 mike mike in about 3 seconds. I even had an M79 on my post that I would use as an improvised mortar. Much fun with 40 mike mike was had.
Just from how frequently i listen to the videos the folks at Forgotten Weapons produce, I have to admit Ian's voice is easily within the top ten voices I would to have as a standard for audio-books. There said my piece, have a good day.
This whole story is a good example of why Ian is so admired in this community. He's got shameless passion for his interests. The two dopes who fought over this beautiful feat of engineering would rather cut their baby in half then gift it to the world
I like the idea that Ian has been sitting with a China Lake in his lap all these years to pull up and show whenever he references it while talking about another weapon.
Feature creep sure seems to kill a lot of military projects. With some of these 'requirement' lists I keep expecting to hear 'and a puppy'.
Was that the reason though? Ian mentioned some problems with the high pressure rounds, but it never actually got to that point and said it died due to a lawsuit.
@@ebreshea1337 Without featurecreep it was pretty much ready to be produced
Look up the 1998 movie " The Pentagon Wars "
@@alichi101 The original design, or the one modified to meet military spec? They never fixed the takedown issue from the original which was probably a requirement.
@@bobroberts2371 funnily, in the original book (Reformer Challenge the Old Guard), the role wasn't as black and white. Look it up if you're interested
**casually pulls granade launcher from under the table**
three times in one video too.
I read this at the exact moment he first did it
The equivalent of Paul Harrell's range jacket?
excuse me, sir, but he took it out of his pocket
@@bobroberts2371 this fits so well I'm kinda impressed I hadn't already thought of it
I think the world needs more, not less, pump action grenade launchers.
Pump action grenade launchers have a strick requirement regarding the length of grenade, which means newer longer grenades are not suitable for these weapons.
@Viktor' 'Hyrst much easier to target republicans in their homes, "an enemy without manueverabilityis without victory" -Son of zoo probably
This comment thread went from 0 to 100 real quick
russian GM-94 smiles at you)
They're actually pretty common in the law enforcement market, here is one made by Penn Arms:
www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
Best collections of rare firearms ecclectica:
1: Cody Center for the West
2: RIA
3: Ian's crotch
That sound you can hear is Jonathan Ferguson crying.
“He pulled an M2 browning out of his pants?! How did- where was he- what?”
He's like Wile E .Coyote.
@@jic1 *sob* I'm not crying. You're crying.
I bet his undies has ACME embroidered across the backside in golden script.
The universe couldn't let something as cool as the China Lake fade into history.
but then promptly did
@@staringgasmask people are still using them in the middle east 🤘
@@w0rloko To be fair I think they're using anything they can find out there.
but the courts can and did.
@Alexi Malenkov You're right. A lot of weapons are forgotten, and the China Lake isn't one of them.
"I want those! Give me china lakes!"
Don't we all, eh?
One? Shoot- I want to be able to give these out for Christmas.
CHYYYYYNA
Just imagine loading slugs into these bad boys.
The perfect Christmas gift.
@keith moore yes a BIG bullet
That thing is a worthy representative of a "Metal Slug" Shotgun
In game they shoots full auto and multicaliber.
S H O T G U N !
I was just playing Metal Slug on my Wii last night, and you are 100% right. 👍😂
@@Joshua_N-A So essentially an autocannon
1 1/4 gauge?
Paint it blue and yellow, suddenly it shoots tennis balls for your dog.
@@onkelpappkov2666 just make it like a massive spring action airsoft gun
@TheRabbit _123 slibgshot rubber you say? Where is joerg sprave when you need him!
@@onkelpappkov2666 Nerf already makes them lol I own one
Would not fit. The law rocket however. Its base tube is the perfect size for a tennis ball. Had one once but my crack head cousin stole it. He never served, I did. God bless America.
I got that refference
This whole story comes back to the ancient wisdom of never letting the Corps do their own procurement.
Don't even let them procure the basics, such as glue, crayons and dip.
Navy should do the buying and Marine do the firing.
Mmmm HK416 anyone?
"ok Marines, you get to pick one nice thing for yourself"
Marine Corps: we demand STOVL in our next gen fighter that will ruin development even though the common chassis will have non interchangeable variants anyway.
I knew a Ranger that wanted to carry a 2" 12ga, because one blast will take out everyone in a room.
If you let soldiers choose their own kit, they'll all be carrying Desert Eagles and Calicos.
Cough, cough, Brownells Retro China Lake 40mm Grenade Launcher, Cough.
Slow down skippy. Let's get a 37mm version first!😉
@@gregsmall5939 Sadly, I think the number of people willing to pay $1500-plus to be able to fire three flares in rapid succession is vanishingly small.
@@gregsmall5939
P D's might be interested in them for riot duty. I'm not sure what the size the gas cartridges today are. But if they are still 37mm that would be one way to differentiate them from military weapons. At least in a legal situation. Truthfully the old Bloop Tube reminded me of the older tear gas launchers.
It's just my opinion but the pump action looks like it would be far more user friendly in terms just carrying the damn thing. That revolving cylinder on the one that was adopted might work. But it's big. And yes they should have stuck to the Hi-Lo 40mm. At least in terms of chambering. I could see the idea behind being able to shoot flares if needed though. If they wanted to fiddle with the design (some things they did make sense) why not look at adapting say the Remington 1100 autoloader action. But only if it allowed a faster follow up shot without an increase in complexity. For sights a simple Red Dot optic that rotates on its mount for elevation.
One question. Do they make 40mm Flash Bangs. If the US deploys troops into a combat situation I want them to win. If it takes killing the opposition fine. After all they had a choice and made it. But there are times when I could see it might be useful to take the opposition alive if possible. Intelligence for one thing. Another is why make a martyr out of somebody if killing them just helps create 2 or 3 new enemies.
@@mpetersen6 PDs already have access to 40mm pump-action launchers, if they want them:
www.combinedsystems.com/product/p640-3cer-cerakoted-pump-multi-launcher-6-cyl-collapsing-stock-w-combo-rail/
@@jic1 speak for yourself! We also need rapid smoke deployment
On the first day of Christmas, Ian gave to me...
*Two China lake grenade launchers in a pear tree!*
FIVE GARAND PINGS!
@@melbertdecamos7300 8 BELT BUCKLE GUNS.
@@kovacsnovak6745 9 "AH GERMANS!"
@@Skele7ronfuckyoutubeitsmyname 10 Borchardts banging
@@dave.of.the.forrest 11 enfeilds
Honestly, as soon as they had to redesign the whole thing for high pressure grenades it kind of defeated the purpose. Using the same grenades as the M203 makes the China Lake easy to resupply, especially in the field, since other soldiers can carry extra grenades for use in either their m203s or for the China Lake guy.
It's a shame that the legal wrangling caused the whole project to fall apart in the end.
well, it was supposed to fire both high pressure and regular ones.
It's just that, who would want to fire high pressure grenades? Anyone wants to lose a shoulder?
Bypass Vent the system to a muscle break **muzzle brake* that pushes the gun forward. That way you usw high power rounds, lose some max range and keep your shoulder.
Yes ist a different design, but it's way easier in the ammunition department.
@@DeUser1337 "Muscle break"? You mean "muzzle brake"?
@@oktayyildirim2911 yes I wanted to write that.
Yes, he should at least put the missing parts on it like the pistol grip and the stock. I mean they are common and available. The poor weapon looks totally naked.
This thing without any stock: _Now I am become dislocation, destroyer of wrists_
Yeah probably if you shot the high pressure 40mm out of it
The low loads have almost zero recoil. Try using high pressure it would explode into many bits, creating a hand held claymoore mine. Probably not a good idea...
@@stevejones1488 You just need to attach a shield and you have a terrifying melee/cqb weapon.
@@DeadNoob451 still have to deal with that recoil...
I wonder if this is california compliant
The space beneath any table Ian sits behind becomes a hammer-space from whence Ian can pull any firearm ever made
US Military: “We want to modernize the China Lake”
Airtronic: C H R O M E
“Everything’s chrome in the future”
Spongebob episode when Squidward use the time machine.
If it don't work, chrome it up!
haha
SHINY AND CHROME
“if it ain’t broke you haven’t tinkered enough”
Really the only thing that broke it was the high pressure rounds
This story made me cry. I wish that one day we will live in a perfect world where every kid owns a 40mm pump action grenade launcher.
would that stand up in court
Me: id like to make a grenade launcher
government:why?
Me:cuz there awesome
*They're
Drtbag39 couldn’t just go along with the joke?
@@cahilla54 Why do folks always get their panties in a twist when a mistake is corrected, especially when it's not even their own mistake?
Apply for a sporting exemption, you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.
"Sure. Pay us large amounts of money and fill out a room full of paperwork please." Destructive device permits do exist.
"Because it was awesome." No further reason needed!
That's so cool - I'm amazed by how many one off prototypes with unique stories you can dig up, Ian. Keep up the great work!
You would think that'd be a series on its own.
Really too bad that they never produced them, and due to over-engineering too which is just dumb. I’d love to see the gun with a stock and grip though.
Over-engineering and greed.
they should have started low pressure and put the high pressure off for the future.
"Over engineered "
So... every german gun 😂
More featurecreep than overengineering. Not as if they managed to make what they planned.
I wouldn’t call it over engineering, it’s more just scope creep
"You know that China Lake? This. This is what I want. I want this. Give me these. "
For a moment I thought they cut the stock off and tried to make this an underslung launcher for rifles.
@@peterclarke7240 M240.
Microzombie just goofing around in AFG I tried mounting a 320, on a 249 and 240.
It only fit on one of them. (I think the 240) but even then it wouldn’t lock onto the rail.
The marines were involved so that was probably suggested at some point
For what, an M107?
@@peterclarke7240 The M134? I'm sure you can attach it to a minigun if you try hard enough.
I know I mentioned it on Facebook page, but for those didn’t see it. At NO time we were planning to use HP rounds in an aluminum barrel. There was a conversation about HP rounds in the future and I even had a SS barrel on my desk, but just a conversation. Everything else is surprisingly accurate. For those that think I received information from someone else. I was the one reverse engineered and redesign this weapon system.
Should have left good enough alone, the stock and pistol grip is a stroke of genius, as is the rails, but everything else seems a little overboard
@keith moore yeah, that's a given, I meant on top of fixing the problems
It’s a common trope in government agencies for everyone to stick their hand in the pot with their own two cents. It leads to severe scope creep because the government agencies are just a customer and the manufacturer has it in their best interest to just do everything that’s asked of them, no matter how pointless the feature is.
@@KinreeveNaku Did the Marine Corps actually *ask* for the ability to chamber high-pressure rounds? The video makes it seem like that was something Airtronic decided to do on their own.
@@KinreeveNaku The M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle comes to mind.
Some people mostly designers are what they call perfectionists. They dont know when to stop the improvements.
"This is a grenade launcher"
*Shows a Warhammer 40k bolter*
With the high pressure round... almost
Without the high pressure round, it's just a little somethin' for the local arbites to disperse crowds with.
Always thought those guns looked straight outta 40k
I was joking the other day that it looked like the Ogryn shotgun.
bolters are 75 cal
Ian your enthusiasm for particularly cool guns like this show and it makes me incredibly happy to see. Please keep doing this for as long as you can!
Can’t wait for when he gets his hands on a KS-23
My brain kept reading "Atomic china lake"
Im like WTF mini fatman launcher?
That kind of exists already, check out the M-29 Davy Crockett nuclear recoiless rifle. ^_^
but the old one looks way cooler in my opinion, just like a giant shotgun, with a classic wooden grip
And I am told that apparently 40mm buckshot loads exist, which if you loaded them into a China Lake would make me a happy little lunatic.
@@Mr_T_Badger Yeah but its not as awesome as you might think. Gun is too light to handle a massive shotgun shot so its actually just scaled down ammo. But it sure is cool to think them putting some massive shotgun shells in them even tho thats not reality.
I’d like to see this with the AR furniture
@@thishonestgrifter - Agreed. That would look great.
@@Jebu911 so I’m told, which is kind of a pity. Rule of Cool however would make it all kinds of interesting if it worked.
Airtronics: "It ain't broke, let's fix it!"
🤦♂️
When people ask me what "stepping on your own dick means," I'm just going to link them this video.
It actually was kind of broke, in that the original design wasn't optimized for mass production, had a known issue in the trigger guard/takedown lever, and needed to be updated for modern use.
@@jic1 True, beyond the takedown issue, it most certainly would have needed some redesign for efficient mass production. You're right about that.
@NerfBeard ' not broken.... yet....
They somehow managed to make the same mistake as the Chinese, 40 years later: deleting the rear grip from the RPG-7.
Love this gun , I worked for airtronic and was involved in this project, you did get a couple of things wrong about why we lengthened the feed system , but all in all a pretty good summery of the weapon.
@@catacombshadows it wasn't to accept the high pressure round, it was so it could fire some of the longer L.T.L. rounds .
I love the sound when the weapon is handled, sounds so bad ass.
Hi, there's some not directly related but pretty cool grenade launcher from Poland, called Pallad M. It never goes beyond the prototype, but it's box-magazine fed semi-auto launcher, with delayed blow-back system I believe. Made by Zaklady Mechaniczne Tarnow, in Poland.
"Yeah, but why?"
What part of "Because it's awesome" seems to be eluding you?
Best Vocational School project ever, I dont know who their instructor was but I nominate him for "Teacher Of The Year."
Feature creep if I ever heard it.
From the makers of "Mission Creep (TM)" try new and improved "Feature Creep (TM)!"
Individual results may vary. May lead to presence patrols and/or being sent to find IEDs with your feet.
IanCaine4728 “if individual results *don’t* vary, money back guaranteed”
I really want to see this with an M4 stock and pistol grip installed… Bad
Just imagine imagine a hilariously oversize mossberg 590a1 receiver barrel/pump/magazine tube on a standard size ar15 stock and pistol grip assembly
To be honest, I would actually use the original China Lake.
Who wouldn’t?
I'll dual wield both please
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 bro same
@@DAEDRICDUKE1 they’re- they’re pump action...
@@toffee5266 not stopping him from dual wielding
The thumbnail makes it look like the stapler size self-defense weapon out of South America.
Aye.
I only clicked on this because it read "China lake".
Q: "Why do we need a modernized China Lake?"
A: 1:00
"Why can't I have a phased plasma pules rifle in 40 watt range,?" PS no-matter what they do, nothing is going to beat the M79!
It never occurred to me that he could have another gun on his lap during ever video.
It's his emotional support China Lake.
Okay folks, cool it. All this talk of "big guns in Ian's lap" is starting to sound a little homoerotic. Children might be watching so....
That story reminds me of the scene from "the Pentagon Wars" about the Bradley fighting vehicle development. "What if it had a big-ass cannon... oh! And amphibious!"
To be fair, the previous two USAr MICV programmes (MICV-65 and AIFV) had had cannon, the Germans were procuring the Marder, with cannon, to replace the HS.30, with cannon, the UK was developing the Warrior, with cannon, the French were developing the AMX-10P, with cannon, and the BMP had a much bigger cannon than anyone ever wanted to stick on the Bradley (and linking back into today's topic, the 73mm on the BMP is another High-Low Pressure system),
@@davidgillon2762 True, and, ultimately the Bradley was a pretty good platform by the time it was refined. Just a far cry from the "armored bus" concept. And, it was a development by mission-creep, not by intent. The movie was over the top, but Cary Elwes and Kelsey Grammer were hilarious.
@@IanCaine4728 It wasn't, though. It was intended, like the MICV and AIFV, to be an infantry fighting vehicle with a turreted autocannon, which was intended to allow the infantry to fight while mounted or dismounted, and to stay and contribute firepower to the infantry, rather than drop them off and leave (like an APC). There was no significant "mission creep" in the Bradley development; the closest there was was the reduction of size of the infantry squad (which was mandated by practical limits to the size of the vehicle), and it's adoption as a scout vehicle... which, fundamentally, was just replacing another tracked vehicle with the same intended armament, so that they didn't have to maintain a logistical base to support two vehicles that had near-identical capabilities.
@@bronco5334 Interesting. That's counter to everything I've ever read about the Bradley, I wonder if the book "the Pentagon Wars" skewed the record and just became the popular zeitgeist. Do you know of a good book or something that covers it's development? It's been awhile, but I know I read somewhere it was a replacement for the M59.
@@IanCaine4728 Oh, the book absolutely DID skew the record and misrepresent reality. The Chair Force chud that wrote the thing was a political hack, part of a group of morons that were convinced that weird minimalist designs were TeH bESteSt!
Seriously, they wanted fighters with no radars or guns, they wanted 50 million M113 variants with various WW2-style weapons layouts, (and no modernization of infantry carriers beyond that), and they thought the 1950s-tech M48 tank with open, unprotected ammo stored all around the turret was more "survivable" than the M1 Abrams. No shit, they thought that strapping a 90mm gun onto an M113 in a casemate mount was TeH WeY oF THe FyUCheR!!! (and not just the less armored rendition of a 1930s era StuG that it, in fact, was)
Why the hell anyone thought an airdale with absolutely no training or experience in mechanized ground warfare had ANYTHING of value to say about a tracked vehicle's merits is beyond me.
Frankly, they were morons, who were seeking fame and notoriety by obstructing good projects.
The fact that its a pump action grenade launcher with no grip makes it so chaoticly evil. By the time you see chrome, thats when you run away
would fit right into doom
To use it without the grip you put your thumb inside the screw hole, then press the trigger and pray to whoever you won't have to stitch it back.
Alternatively rest it on your chest and bend a couple ribs
Check the Russian GM-94, it´s basically the realistic version of this, it has a pistol grip and a underbarrel wire stock.
There is a cool 90s Ad of it on YT.
@@spiderjerusalem8284 More importantly, there's a booklet on it by two frequent guests of this channel: armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Russian-GM-94-Grenade-Launcher.pdf
an underbarrel China Lake attachment for an M60 with a heavy barrel sounds like the perfect combo to completely eradicate the Geneva convention, because asking if it's got too much power means it doesn't have enough power.
Airtronic: you shall ride eternal. shiny and chrome.
8:19 bless you, whoever sneezed
You may be cool, but you'll never be "Ian casually pulling a grenade launcher off his lap" cool
Fewer shots = Less weight when fully loaded
Slimmer profile = MUCH easier to carry
Familiar shotgun-like design = Less training needed
No cylinder gap = No pressure leakage = Projectiles fly faster and farther (Slightly, but truly)
How the hell did this thing NOT become standard-issue? I get that the times changed, then changed a second time, but did all of the military just FORGET that china lake existed or something? Done properly, this would have been a decent alternative to the MGL. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that this would have beaten the MGL, had Airtronic not have gotten ahead of themselves with the engineering and the legal stuff.
3 minutes and 21 comments already ?
Damn Gun Jesus draws a crowd
Everyone's welcome under this roof. Amen
Gary Pack Karen took your r now your name is gay
@@haselnussbraunschwarz1212 What ????????????????????
@@haselnussbraunschwarz1212 No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ian is at his level of success, when he can make reference to his previous videos three times during the course of the video.
I am sure someone could convince the Elbonians that one of these things firing high pressure grenades is the way to go.
and that they don't need a grenade machine gun when they can just buy this
And no stock for paratrooper carry
"Scope Creep" -- the enemy of "good enough, build it now".
Last time i was this early Ho Chi Minh city was still called Saigon
It still is
@@JohnSmith-hd2tl by sore losers yeah
@@joy_gantic if you find pride in war then please participate yourself.
@@joy_gantic cope harder commie
@@vietlong114 cope? Agent Orange lost the war lol you still calling it Saigon after the US losing hard despite all of its advantages is the cope
Imagine the kid who asks for an airsoft and his parents buy him an airtronic by accident lol
Engineer: “This system has practical limitations, but, within its parameters, will serve its purpose exceptionally well.”
Pentagon: No! We want it to be and do everything!
$10 billion later, the project is abandoned.
Not the case here. Airtronic fucked it up.
@@Norkans5 it really is such a bummer. I would love for a game like call of duty or battlefield to make it just so I can see the finished product
@@Dragonstorm1557GAMING Just photoshop the launcher with a beautiful black melonite finish and AR-15 furniture (or with an SB3 brace to spite the ATF/DOJ Despots>: )
Modular! Networked! Synergy!
I love that Ian was sitting there with a grenade launcher in his lap basically just to lift it up for emphasis.
0:26 makes me smile every time
We came so close to a slamfiring China lake
Imagine the confidence boost when holding one of those in battle
04:45 - Ah, feature creep. The death knell of so many awesome things...
Honestly, I like the aesthetic of the original China Lake. The wooden furniture just looks sexier than polymer furniture in my eyes.
Yeah, I'm partial to the M79 myself, but I'd take polymer over wood in the field. Weight.
@@Dirtbag-Hyena agreed, always prefer wood for looks, but if its something you're planning on lugging around synthetic is so much nicer.
@@Dirtbag-Hyena Understandable viewpoint.
7:35 Elk Grove. Neat. Looks like they have a building in Elgin still.
"The prototype was hand built by a master machinist. But you're not gonna do 50 like that."
Yeah man i will take one each in 600 & 700 nitro express please. A million dollars? Yeah i might cancel that please
The mark II Version Sub assembly "B" Model with the clamp on option was renowned for helping the Grinch to "Steal Christmas" and that is why it is a so often seeked weapon around this time of year.
"Ooooooo shineeeyyyy" - US Marines upon seeing this
But can we melee with it?
John Stryker Myer has mentioned that one of his team members carried an experimental pump action grenade launcher on one of their MACV-SOG missions..... I've been wondering if it was a China Lake.
Thanks for these videos Ian!
I just watched the China Lake video literally yesterday. I must have ESP or some shit.
This is one for the action heroes.
My best guess is that Airtronic deliberately overengineered it enough to be able to kick the original guys out of the picture.
“It’s a totally different design!” - airtronics, probably
Really enjoying the 40mm series, Ian!
Modernized Vietnam War Grenade Launcher
I find it interesting you can still see the blue layout fluid on the top of the receiver. Very much a machine shop prototype.
"China Lake launcher was probably the coolest weapon used by SEALs in Vietnam."
-Cries in Stoner 63
Pew pew vs boom boom
My unit tested the M32 in Ramadi in 2006. We loved them because you could dump 6 rounds of 40 mike mike in about 3 seconds. I even had an M79 on my post that I would use as an improvised mortar. Much fun with 40 mike mike was had.
Somewhere in an alternate timeline the military brought China lakes into Afghanistan and I'm sad that's not our timeline
Just from how frequently i listen to the videos the folks at Forgotten Weapons produce, I have to admit Ian's voice is easily within the top ten voices I would to have as a standard for audio-books. There said my piece, have a good day.
The prototype looks cool af
There’s also a part of me that wishes I can buy a grenade launcher at my local gun shop
Every time I see a “China Lake” I think of it’s counterpart in Fallout New Vegas, along with the PGM Hecate 2.
Isn’t it called the "Grenade Rifle" in New Vegas?
@@charlesdemers1197 nah, it's just the "grenade launcher." The "grenade rifle" is based off the m79.
you mean holorifle, the energy weapon shotgun
@@Unit93JV also that, fuck Elijah though
@@Unit93JV ew, energy weapons.
Excellent presentation as usual!
Does this one slame fire? Cuz that would be an improvement.
If only
Real improvement would have been to copy a semi auto shot gun
This thing looks so 90's, it probably has blast processing instead.
@@maxterchefe Well, it was a semi-auto design that was adopted in the end.
@@jic1 yeah grenade revolver is cool but not grenade shotgun cool, personally preferance I guess
"...Basically to show it off, cause it's awesome." I love this channel.
They also make a light weight RPG that uses a carbon fiber launch tube.
Both China Lake and this look straight out of Warhammer 40k, something an Ogryn would carry
Typical Marine Corps recruiting targets strongly resemble Ogryn.
Behold, The GRENADE OBREZ
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine They indeed do! They have modified them as pistols and under barrel launchers.
Click-Click Big-Boom
This is straight out of star wars,should've been called as "Gunga Lake"
Nothing quite like a pump action thumper.
This whole story is a good example of why Ian is so admired in this community. He's got shameless passion for his interests.
The two dopes who fought over this beautiful feat of engineering would rather cut their baby in half then gift it to the world
Isnt this Men In Black Inventory??
And you need to be requiring 5 years of experience and higher pay grade to carry this weapon.
@@Joshua_N-A standard sidearm issue with this weapon is a cricket.
Uh.. Ian... This so damn coooool! I would love to see more prototypes.
Ah I'm glad to see ean is Reviewing the Starwar guns like he said Good job Ean ;)
Ian! How dare ye spell our Lord's name wrong!
I like the idea that Ian has been sitting with a China Lake in his lap all these years to pull up and show whenever he references it while talking about another weapon.
**Doom marine breathing heavily noises**
T-800: *40mm pump action*
*loads round*
You can't do that....
T-800: *WRONG*
Combat Shotgun Explosive Shot attachment
Qlz-87 would be a more destructive fit
Words can’t express how much I want that thing!
*Need a shirt with one saying "because its awesome"*
I love how he just casually pulls out a china lake
Random retro gun :
American : I GOTTA PUT RAIL AND AR-15 STOCK ON THIS
YEAH?!? SO WHAT?!?! ;)
The four best words ever said, "because it was awesome".
Gun Jesus 2020