Proxxon FF500/BL review follow-up (milled my mill with my lathe)
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- In the previous video, three problems with my Proxxon FF500/BL milling machine remained:
1: The headstock is mediocre, sensitive to wear and already has too much play for my liking.
2: The column leans slightly back and to the right.
3: The sluggish display shows the correct spindle speed after more than 10 seconds.
In this video I show the solutions I came up with for problem 1 and 2. I'm still pondering about a good solution for that lagging display.
Music, Copyright free
Lloyd Rogers, on matters of consequence Act I
Mozart Concerto 17 in G major, part 3
Superb! This channel has to be viewed by any Proxxon user, and probably by Proxxon itself too
Very well thought out fixes and meticulous, nicely done!
I’m so happy you came along with your UA-cam channel! I have a PD400 and a PF400 and all these mods I can copy.
Thank you so much for the great content!
Thank you!
The FP400 has the same aluminium headstock, how is the condition of yours?
@@Michel-Uphoff condition is good. The main problem is the column, which is round. If I want to lower it with the handwheel on the vertical lead screw, the drilling head moves down about 0,5mm when undoing the clamp screw on the back. This is really annoying and makes it difficult to line the end mills up with good precision.
@@josseman So it nods 0,5 mm? And that is due to play I suppose. You could consider something like I did, make a bronze lining and change the clamping mechanism.
@@Michel-Uphoff yes, I am considering that now, but I might just buy a whole new milling machine, because I also don’t like the collets. I’d prefer a Morse taper
I also have quite some play in the saddle (about 3mm!). I thought it might be the half nut, but everything looks fine.
I have also designed and made a 3D printed way wiper with magnet holes to attach a bellows to protect the bed ways. I can send you some as well if you want
An excellent upgrade Michael, and very nicely done!
Very nice results Michel, Congrats!!
Nice work Michel! I would only buy new allenhead lockbolts for the quill adjustment. A Philips head looks awkward on such a machine. Thank you for sharing! Best, Job
Hi Job,
I completely agree with you, I ran out of M8 Allen bolts.
Very good modification, I think I will copy it.
I have no idea what Proxxon was smoking when designing that, the steel shaft on the aluminum housing is going to eat it like crazy, no wonder they suggest to lubricate every time you use it.....
Anyway an alternative approach maight be to use two bushings with a smaller internal diameter and then machine it to the final dimension is the same setup, this way you don't need to care that much about the concentricity of the two bushing housing.
Nice work! That poor head stock construction seems to follow a recurring Proxxon pattern of weak design decisions for central parts. The machine looks well build otherwise though. When the belt pulley on my PD250 lathe started to run hot I had to insert ball bearings. The bronze bushings couldn't handle the side forces.
great tunes you match with your videos )) keep it coming
Fantastic job! Maybe I can do simmilar upgrade on my Sieg SX-1P mill
change the lock handle, I use the swiss one, and when you lock it and the spindle will rotate a little.
Hi, which (brand/make/type) boring head (kotterkop) did you use?
Die heb ik jaren terug aangeschaft in Engeland. Deze hier lijkt er het meeste op: www.chronos.ltd.uk/product/new-soba-metric-40-mm-boring-head-kit-with-2mt-3mt-parrallel-shanks/
Very nice work. Where did you get the bronze bushings?
See this (Dutch) link. If you want more information please let me know:
techniekgids.nl/bronzen-glijlager-gerold/
@@Michel-Uphoff Which one exactly did you use? Would you be able to perform the update for me if I provide you with my mill head? thx
I used two of these: www.techniekwebshop.nl/glijlagerbus-zb455020din-40-250-20-mm.html
No, I'm sorry.
there is just one screw lock the head of the milling machine, and it need be locked at another with nut
Terrible stock quill design - first i did to my ff230 (same quill clamping design) was to saw it fully open. Where did you get those bronze bearing shells, remember part no.?
www.techniekwebshop.nl/glijlagerbus-zb455020din-40-250-20-mm.html
Awesome work, thx a lot. Michel, could you do me a favor? Could you provide me with as much dimensions (thread sizes top and bottom, diameters at bearing seats, overall length) as possible of the spindle you are inserting into the quill at 6:03? I also wanna have the possibility to use ER20 collets on my FF230 and maybe i can use and modify that spindle…
That's a lot of work, because I then will have to take apart the quill to do the measurements. So before I will so, first some overall measurements to see if it is possible at all: The outer diameter of the quill is 45 mm and the length is 110 mm. Will that fit in (the much smaller?) ff230? Keep in mind that the width of your headstock must be some 60 mm for this quill and the bearings to fit and have enough material left at the sides.
@@Michel-Uphoff thanks for that info! Of course it will not fit, and it will not be "plug-and-play". I thought of shortening and turning down the diameter…
@@marcoam2610 if you turn down the diameter, you will lose the teeth of the rack at the back, and the wall thickness would probably be insufficient. What is the diameter of the ff230 quill?
@@Michel-Uphoffmy idea was to take the FF500 spindle and turn that down, not the quill, only the spindle. The FF230 quill diameter is only 34mm…
So you need the exact dimension of the spindle.
Sorry, don't have them for you, will have to disassemble it first.
At a future service job. But I do doubt very much you could pull this off that way. Why don't you design and make a new one? Much cheaper also, the Proxxon spare parts have a hefty price tag!
music is great! Work is great! but i just cant get behind the design of this quill.
Do you have questions? Don't hesitate to ask.
I have a maximat7. I have been looking into Proxxon products for maybe a small cnc mill conversion and ran across your videos. Whats your opinion on this machines stiffness? would this machine be a good candidate for cnc?
@@tgc281 This milling machine is also supplied in a CNC version. That will cost an extra penny or two... (several thousand euro's extra)..
The machine itself is built accurately enough, but it is and remains a small milling machine, with all the limitations in terms of size and rigidity. I have gotten used to not putting too much strain on the machine. Better to use 2 passes than 1 and not too much cutting depth, and use sharp cutters of good quality (preferably carbide). Then it cuts nice and fast and true. Also watch my other videos about this machine.
@@Michel-Uphoff thank you for the reply my friend. I've subscribed to your channel.
Hello
Thank you for sharing your video.
You did realy good job but you lost your Tim because of this why you didn’t make it komplett whith cast iron block or iron?it will be much more strong also easy.
I don't have the equipment to make a completely new headstock from cast iron or steel.
2:20 du hast das Sägeblatt hoffentlich nicht genau im Blick🤓
I have the exact same problem with this piece of junk. Turns out it's from the link between x and y axis. It's machined badly and the way surfaces are tilted. It needs a lot of scraping. I would advise anyone who is interested in buying this mill to avoid it unless you want to spend hours fixing it. Also if you can put some Turcite or similar tape from Igus on the z axis. The z axis ways are not in the same plane and will wear out very fast. The only good thing on this machine is the table. Hope it helps someone.
If the column leans more than the Proxxon specs state, the warranty should cover that. Mine did lean a tiny amount, and it was fixed easily. if the ways of the column are really crooked and weared out, then it seems to me that a tremendous force has been exerted and bent both the ways and the column. This is not a new machine I suppose?
Scraping is not possible in this case. The column is made of aluminum with a hard and wear-resistant oxide top layer. You definitely don't want to scrape through that down to the soft aluminum core.
@@Michel-Uphoff It's a brand new machine. I don't really know how much the column is tilted until i fix the x axis. The guides should be parallel to y axis but they are off by 0.13mm at the back. Basically the whole x axis plane is leaning forward due to bad setup of the "saddle" when it was machined, because all the features are tilted. This in turn causes the table to be tilted. At first I also though the column was leaning and started working on it, then I saw the extremely low contact area of the z slide and knew it will not last very long and the anodizing on the column is type 2 (cosmetic 0.01mm) and not type 3 (0.1mm). I corrected this by carefully grinding the slide surfaces down with a biax about 0.4mm and regularly checking the geometry as to not introduce too much error, then bonded Iglidur V400 to them with epoxy, and scraping it to match the column and be parallel to the spindle. Now it's a different machine. Maybe I'll scrape the column after i fill it with epoxy granite and the anodizing fails. You'll be surprised how long even soft aluminum lasts when proper contact and lubrication is maintained. Now i'll repeat the process on the other two slides to make a decent machine. I just wanted a reliable manual machine but this turned out to be a trojan horse. Hope this info helps someone. And thank you for sharing your work. A pleasure watching your videos.
@@Michel-Uphoff My mistake. The table is leaning on the backside. To avoid any confusion the problem is part 24350-02-14, the carriage. It's height in the front is 37.74 and in the back, towards the column, is 37.61. This means the when you want to face a part it will come off tapered on the y axis direction at roughly 0.1 mm per 100mm. Also, the leadscrew nuts have excessive play, 0,5mm and even if you manage to fit some anti-backlash nuts it will still have about 0.02 mm of play because they use only one no name bearing to support the leadscrew. Cheaping out. The gibs are bowed (concave) by about 0.1 in the middle. Many parts are not debured, including the headstock, witch after 15 drilled holes was very badly gouged, as it happened to you. The hand dials have no grip surface so good luck setting the with slightly oily hands. Basically it's no better quality than chinese mills, and in some aspects worse, but cost double that because "made in Germany". All my measurements were carried out using calibrated Tesa metrology tools and a quality surface plate.
Also, about the column, the flat sides of the z axis slide, should in theory form a perfect plane (form a 180 degree angle)....not on this machine. If you check them they form a 178 degree angle aka. not a flat surface. Even if you were to grind the z slide perfectly flat you would still have contact at the edges which will wear out the column very fast. The only solution is to hand scrape so they mate perfectly. They could have solved this problem by milling the column after the extrusion process but didn't.
@@razvanvladeanu8239 Why didn't you send that mill back after checking? It is clear that there is a lot going on with your machine. 0.1 mm deviation per 10 cm is an impermissible amount. I don't recognize these problems for the most part. All three axes are almost perfectly perpendicular to each other except for that small misalignment in the column, which I corrected. The front of the column is perfectly level here. Incidentally, the front is not important, only the two working surfaces of the ways are relevant, and I have not measured them. Now after 3 years of fairly intensive use, I still see no trace of wear on the ways of the column.
That play in the spindle nuts, it is indeed there, but because I use a DRO, it does not bother me. Well, just like you, I am annoyed by those slippery hand wheels, I'm going to knurl them soon.
Where did you get the information that the oxide layer on the column is only 0.01mm thus cosmetic?