Raymond Carver - What We Talk About When We Talk About Love BOOK REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
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Carver Documentary:
• The Life of Raymond Ca...
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Lifes is a snatcher.. yes, Cliff ..indeed.
"... and it's like every story is a silent, loaded gun sitting on the kitchen table ready to go off." I've been a fan of Carver for years and never heard his work described so dead on point. Well done.
You kinda missed an opportunity to reference Carvers poem “My dads wallet” during that plug. ‘We stared at the wallet for a minute. Nobody said anything. All the life had gone out of that wallet”
When I read Raymond Carver I never expected it would be such an eye opening experience. It's really different from other poets and writers I've been reading.
Carver was never going to be a verbose, expansive writer. But on his own he wasn't as minimalistic as this collection implies. The extremely stripped down style here is largely the work of Carver's editor, Gordon Lish. Lish took Carver's stories and made drastic cuts prior to publication. As time went on, Carver grew resentful over the aggressive editing. And Lish's role in Carver's growing fame became somewhat controversial when the reading public learned the full extent of it. There is an edition of Carver's collected stories that includes Carver's versions as well as the Lish versions. Interesting to take a good look at.
100% agree... but I wonder how many editors are responsible for similar across the years. None that I know of quite so famously as Lish but they must be out there... doing their thing.
It's great to read the pre-Lish edited versions in the Library of America edition. I think those versions are a lot better then the Lish versions. Lish seemed like a Manhattanite who was as unhappy and cruel as the working class characters Carver wrote about, which of course is ironic.
I agree.
@@LloydFassett
Good to know the Library of America editions of his work are unexpurgated.
The Bath never left my mind ever since I've read it. Also, not sure if you mention, can't watch the whole thing right now, but Haruki Murakami is a big fan of Carver, hence the "What I talk about when I talk about running"
Murakami translated all of Carver's work in Japenese. They were friends before probably anyone in America knew who Murakami was.
Your message and his rings true to advice my father gave me after a long, hard day at work. He said, "Nick, a life of hard work will guarantee you a broken back, anything else you get is half-luck"
These videos make me happy.
A "silent, loaded gun" is a great description of his writing. When you're immersed in the stories it can easily seem trivial, but if you look at it again it becomes a lot more moving. Great review once again, Mr Cliff!
I've been silently enjoying your work for some time now. Great stuff, gotta say. Content, style, editing. You really make us wanna read everything you review. Keep up the awesome work man! 🙌🏼
As always I LOVE this channel!!!
Yess. Finally, my favorite American writer. A true genius!
Love your channel, from South Africa.
Thanks so much for your continued work. You've definitely got one of the best, and perhaps my favorite, book review channel. About six years ago, I read "Beginners," Carver's updated, longer, personal re-edit of "What We Talk About when We Talk about Love." I loved it, bleak, honest, unflinching, the difficult poetry of common days. All the best to you, brother.
Glad Carver got the BTF treatment! Been reading him on and off for over a decade, since I happened upon a little collection (Cathedral) in a mountain-town bookstore in Virginia. Great work, my man!
Just stumbled across this video, and your channel, looking for a review on Carver. Really enjoyed this video, and found it helpful.
i've never read carver but i really need to . great discussion.
One of my favorites. I saw that Doc a few years ago and really loved it.
I think I found my new favorite channel 💙
I loved this review, you really understood what his writing is about, very interesting, deep analysis and way of describing him. Thanks!! He is one of my favorite authors, definitely. So sorry you didn't like him that much!
I was reading Raymond Carver and then I saw that you posted a video about him, such a coincidence! I'm going to read more stuff from him after I'm done with his poetry ^^
So happy to see you do Raymond Carver! He's one of my favorites. I've read all his collections and Cathederal is my favorite.
Could you explain what you like about it? I just read it a few minutes ago and i'm trying to make up my mind.
@@MayMay-qn2dd I honestly just love realist, down to Earth stories about tired worn down people. It's a human element that's either taken for granted or not used well. When people can paint a human soul as well as Carver, they have my respect.
Amen, Cathedral is immense and beautiful.
Carver was the one who got me into short stories in a big way.
There was a good collection that came out a couple years ago called heads of the colored people by Nafissa Thompson-Spires. Definitely worth a shot, you’d probably dig it judging by your awesome taste.
Thanks for the video! :3
I just bought the rest of the books of his that I hadn't owned. I already owned this, Cathedral, and Would You Please Be Quiet, Please. Glad to see some new recognition for other people to see.
Very glad you reviewed this. Didn't expect it. Also, Carver is probably the first short story writer I fell in love with. Big influence on my early creative writing.
Your channel is awesome
I love Carver so much. Check out the five stories included in the Call If You Need Me collection.
Love this. Carver is a gem and being analyzed by Cliff is the polishing of a rough ass bleak gem
Thanks for the review Cliff. I've been a fan of yours for a while, at least since your Borges review! Just started reading "What we talk about," really enjoying it so far. I wanted to recommend this folk singer, who is considered to be the Raymond Carver of folk. His name is Bill Morrissey, and his lyrics share some similarities with Carver's writing. I would recommend the songs, "Inside," "The Man from out of Town," and "Small Town on the River" to start. Cheers, from Toronto, ON.
I love Carver. He has a beautiful story called The Errand about Chekhov and another one called Blackbird Pie with horses in it which I adore. I met Tess Gallagher in Belfast at a reading a few years back.
I've never clicked on a notification so quickly. The title story (along with the story "Cathedral" from that collection) left me in life affirming tears.
I haven't read him in years, but I used to love Carver. I should read his stuff again. I especially recall loving a story about a bakery...
Have you seen Short Cuts? Robert Altman adapts several Carver stories into a very Altman film.
Stopped my playlist when I got your notification. Always a pleasure you watch your videos.
still one of my favorite reviews
Excellent choice! Carver is king
My mother is from Yakima, and I spent many many years of my youth at my grandmother's house there. I learned more about life when I witnessed her last breath at age 6 than anything in the following 16 years I've lived so far. I was trying to wake her for breakfast, and she hardly muttered a "i love you all, you can do anything" before stiffening and going from the source of my source, the nurturer of my nurturer, to another object. I cried, and a cowboy preacher she knew and loved came from down the street to explain that Lazarus was a special case, and that she was gone for good now.
I've always been curious about Carver. Now knowing that he conveys the mass tangles of widow-infested brush and rusting car parts spangling the backyards of Eastern WA, and the hunger that pulses out of them, and the sorrow that seemed to lift off of my gram-gram's body while she was alive and slowly dying, I know it's the perfect lit to capture my imagination. Shot to the top of my reading list. Thanks again for another excellent video and recc, Cliff. Cheers from Montana!
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Gordon Lish controversy, since a lot of his economical writing is attributed to Carver’s editor. If anything, it raises an interesting question about authorship.
@betterthanfood
it's very important to look at carver with his editor gordon lish in mind - the original version of what we talk about when we talk about love is much more hopeful and romantic before lish's editing. they're like two different stories
Where can I read the original version? Is it published?
@@artemist99 It's published as "Beginners".
@@jh1618 Thanks!
Agree. The work of his editor had a great impact on Carver's writing
The way you describe Yakima is the way I describe Klamath Falls Oregon. Timber industry, fishing/hunting, and it’s a small town. The difference is logging and lumber mills isn’t the main. Form of income in Yakima, it’s agriculture. You know Washington apples? There’s also much more growing in Washington like hops which incidentally Budweiser owns.
Dude, I watched your Q and A video where you talked about growing up in Astoria and working in the indie radio station, and it turns out- 3 of my coworkers also lived in Astoria around the same time! They are all in their mid-to-late 30's and one of them even worked at the radio station reading children's books on air and may have occasionally smoked weed in it as well. They didn't recognize you though =( I'm currently in part 4 of 2666 and loving it! Shouts out from Eugene.
P.S. If you want to see another great take on the American working class dream in the PNW, you should watch the film adaptation of Ken Kesey's "Sometimes A Great Notion" if you haven't already. I haven't read the book but I've heard it's better than Cuckoo's Nest.
There's a great reading of Chef's House on the New Yorker Podcast. I never realised how similar his prose is to Hemingway's until someone pointed it out to me. A lecturer once told me that many of his stories are biblical, but I don't know. Anyway, when reading Carver's stories, I struggled because I knew there was something deeper that I couldn't reach but couldn't ignore. Robert Altman's film Short Cuts brought them to life for me and allowed me to read them without thinking too much about the meaning.
Carver was brilliant. Read all his books. Cold reality is a great way to describe his stories.
Maaannn, i've read this book last year but its translated and i didnt like it and never thought would reread, idk if its under-translated or what. But, this review really put into perspectives and i will buy the original language and just to try to feel the true atmosphere. Nice video
Is that a first edition of Gravity's Rainbow in the background? I'd recognize that cover anywhere!
6:05 sums it all up. ✨🌹✨
Carver is the author that sparked my love for reading. Like some other commenters mention, Cathedral is impossibly good. Funnily enough, even though 'what we talk about...' is carvers most popular collection (and I loved it), I personally find it lacking in something that 'Cathedral' and 'Will You Please be Quiet Please' don't.
For those wondering, the last story in this book has that name, "What we talk about when we talk about love" and it is the story in which the play from Birdman is based. Plus, the first quote that appears onscreen in Birdman ("Did you get what you wanted out of this world?") is a quote from another story from Carver called "A new path to the waterfall"
or my personal favorite, also mentioned in Stuck in Love
Raymond Carver is a writer I need to revisit. I think I was too young when I read What We Talk About When We Talk About Love.
That passage you read about questioning the duration and extent of love….. my god. I need to sit down
Also dude I’m also from Portland. Let me know if you ever want peruse the blue section at Powell’s and grab a quick coffee (even though I’m a random UA-cam commenter lol)
You make me want to review books.
Carver is a fucking master of the two page short story. His influences shine like a bulb. He was a big Chekhov guy, and Chekhov is another one who was incredible at painting an enormously beautiful, emotionally resonant picture with the span of a few pages.
Good stuff. Most definitely better than food.
Dude…the “Whreshintin” quote was all I needed to know you for sure came from the same the shithole a are that I did 😂
Bukowski without the humour or magic, i don't think i could deal with that lol. Buk is at his best when you're busting up laughing and then sitting there quietly vibrating at the poignancy of it. When he's at his best there's nothing like it.
As always thank you for your tremendous work man!
Carver and Dubus (Sr) just have a way with writing about relationships that are unmatched IMO.
Is that Gravity's Rainbow behind you?
Have you ever read Raymon Carver's poem of a Bukowski poem call “You Don’t Know What Love Is”? I love Carver, and I do feel he is more of a painter redactor than a writer, but I love that too. That poem brings what I love about both of them together. If you haven't read it, let me know what you though!
I love that poem! It really captures Bukowski. And it's very funny.
wondering your thoughts on this now that its widely known that Gordon Lish had a heavy heavy hand in its style - reading Lish's other works and that of his students (Amy Hempel, Gary Lutz, Barry Hannah, Dawn Raffel) you can really see his influence across all of their work.
Have you read Insel by Mina Loy? She's one of the greatest surrealist author imo. It's very underappreciated and there's not that many reviews out there on it
I would like to see you review an hear your thoughts on Nos, book of the resurrection by Miguel Serrano.
I read Cathedral Stories by Carver. Haven’t read What We Talk About When We Talk About Love.
Do you like any kazuo ishiguro book?, i recently read never let me go, and i thought that you ll like it
That old GR copy on the shelve seems promising
Well I didn’t plan on buying this book... but now I am haha.
Loved this book. It was my first Carver. I prefer the other Raymond (Chandler), but nevertheless, Carver is a master
Great review, as always. If you’re interested in reading more brazilian books, I recommend the woman who wrote the bible, by Moacyr Scliar. It is about the ugliest of King Solomon' wives, but the only one who can read and write, and how she went from being the daughter of a mere tribe leader to living in a palace and writing her own version of biblical stories. The writing itself is fun and direct, the author really doesn't shy away from saying whatever might come to narrator's mind. I know it has been translated to spanish and french, not sure about english, but if you can find it, it's definitely worth the try.
Just ordered his work...after knowing how his editor stripped this particular book, I would be curious of your opinion on say Cathedral or Be quiet, Please
I think Sundog by Jim Harrison might belong on your shelf.
You need to check out Lucia Berlin
Carver: minimalist, wise, powerful work. After you read the stories, you don't have a nice warm feeling about the world being a better place. At least, regular people don't. Writers, on the other hand, are amazed by his craft, and are inspired to be better writers themselves. 😉
We need to talk about what we talk about when we talk about love.
Will you read and review "Ham on Rye" by Charles Bukowski?
Awsome book. One of the first memoirs I've ever read.
Off topic: how about you teach us how to lift. Pls
Any chance you would review "In Another Country" by David Constantine. I think you would like it.
Is it the same book that made into film "45 years"? Ari Aster (Hereditary director) recommended that.
@@ronace1190 yeah. It's a part of collected short stories.
Great writer
...you got a wife?! wow, i really thought you were one of "us": for ever wandering through the city alone at night...
My favorite is "The Third Thing that Killed My Father Off."
"Love is the infinite placed within reach of poodles." Celine
Internet survey. Questions and answers.
Number 22: Who is your Role model?
ANS: Clifford Lee Sargent.
8:48 Chekhov reference?
I think The Blind Man in Cathedral is very humorous.
GRAVITYS RAINBOW IN THE BACK
Ever read any Zadie Smith or Irvine Welsh, Cliff?
Good shout. Would like to see Cliff do a vid on Acid House by Irvine Welsh.
Taylor Cunningham man I just read The Acid House a couple months back! My favourite collection of short stories. The fucking fly.....
I felt like Carver painted a landscape of people, pain, and survival, in this book.
I'm reading "will you please be quiet please" and it's the worst collection of ministories I've ever read in my entire life. I'll check out cathedral but I don't have much hope it's going to be any good.
Would you ever consider reviewing Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace.
Bruh
He's talked about IJ. I think in his Delillo episode. He's read it and isn't a fan.
People say Carver had a very different voice and that his writing was mildly improved by his editor ;)
Love your channel and your take on literature, mostly. So I apologize in advance that my only comment is a snarky one about your intro with you reading a book in a mask 🤣 really? I hope you're being sarcastic
From what I've read, Carver's editor was largely responsible for the "sparseness" of his prose.
That’s actually real? I thought that was just a part of the birdman script...
The last story in this book has that name, "What we talk about when we talk about love" and it is the story in which the play from Birdman is based. Plus, the first quote that appears onscreen in Birdman ("Did you get what you wanted out of this world?") is a quote from another story from Carver called "A new path to the waterfall"
Please review Denis Johnson Jesus' Son!!!!
Whoa, excellent choice! I'd love to see what he would do with that book.
sound almost like the title of Murakami. who is mocking whom ?
Murakami was influenced by Carver, and translated his complete works into Japanese.
K. E. makes sense. thx
Lol holy shit, did you covice me to buy a wallet? That never happens...
Ah, that area of the country where working class white Americans live in the fog of depression and sadness. Also the same people who caused the "opioid epidemic" because of which I cannot get the doctor to give me pain pills for my actual real physical pain.
Those sponsored wallets,wouldn’t have any money left over to store after buying one.
Birdman
yup
It sounds like that book isn't really "good" in some objective sense, if there is such a term being applicable to books. Some of the dialogue between the characters, like where they are drinking wine and talking about sad facts of life appear to be written in a way that is forcefully wants to allege that normal , maybe trivial, sad facts of life are much sadder than they really are. I don't know how to describe it. It is almost like you read and wonder why should some of these characters are even making a deal about the observations about life they are making.
This wasn't a book review, pal. It was a lot of waffle. Don't give up the day job.
That mask
75 bucks or more for a wallet, I just had a laughing fit at the sheer absurdity
Mask book reading. Gay
Not that engaging or memorable. And apparently he allowed his editor to butcher a lot of his stories. Very over-rated guy.