The new Acuity mods, arcanes, and status rework really breathed a lot of life into Warframe's older weapons. It really is a game where you can make anything work, even the beloved Stug.
@@andrewbishop3236 Nope but that’s what I love about it ngl, it’s like rooting for the underdog. You can do it, Stug! You can clear base Steelpath!!! (And unironically, it can level cap albeit much slower than every other gun)
Warframe deals with power creep by not actually dealing with power creep. Warframe's goal isnt to give you a competitive and relatively balanced experience, it wants you to feel powerful and player power certainly has skyrocketed over the years. DE did attempt to add things to the game to try and be a threat to players such as Nullifiers, Eximus Units, and Overguard which actively strip the player of tools but are no more than road bumps now. Regardless of how its monetized the content design goal of both games are very different.
Yeah warframe at this point is just a point and click horde shooter most of the time while destiny is more of a fps that tries to be closer to Halo. It does feel kinda bad in WF tho when ur running through a mission and everyone is just nuking enemies before u even see them. It gets to the point sometimes I don't even see bodies cus they despawn too fast
@@Sqeaky6969 I will say that it is mildly disappointing when you’re the new player on a team mission and you don’t get to kill so any enemies because everyone else already killed them, but frankly, that’s not much of an issue to me personally. You are meant to be an overpowered super ninja who can dominate the masses, so seeing high-level players absolutely dominate the enemy while I’m in the backdrop is just fine with me. It just shows me how powerful I could become too if I continue leveling and getting stronger. I’m just a few days into playing the game, and I’ve had the most fun I’ve ever had playing a game IN YEARS. It certainly feels like a better, more accessible experience than Destiny 2 is currently, and not just a point and click shooter. You’re not just shooting, you’re runnning, rolling, bullet jumping, wall jumping, hacking, parkouring, and going the speed of light. Why would I care about fighting most enemies? I’m not on their time, they’re on mine.
@@datwitchyswordfan that's fine and I get ur perspective as a new player, there's just specific things u sometimes have to do, without getting into spoilers, for either certain frames or weapons. Like there's weapons called incarnons where to "activate" them u either need to do damage of a certain type or get headshots for example and it's hard to do that when another player just pressed 4 and wiped the whole map. I've been playing for about 800 hours across pc and console and after awhile I want a challenge something to break the monotony of running through a map from point A to point B. I want an actual challenge and warframe doesn't offer that at all, I love the game it's a great game to pass the time and fulfill that power fantasy but just like one punch man, if you've ever seen it, it gets boring sometimes being overpowered and never actually being challenged since u tear through enemies like paper mache. Thats why a lot of people take long, sometimes years long breaks
For what ive seen, wf lets you use any frame and make them good or “viable” for endgame. The problem is that a lot of frames are pointless to use cause some are just arguably better. Also, endgame gets boring quickly cause its just farming ( materials, frames) and thts it. No pvp, no raids and no dungeons. So you’re left doing the same thing constantly.
I def like the incarnons, but i would’ve like it more if they made the incarnons their own seperate thing and actually reworking old weapons instead. Still cool though 😁
@@NyRaXT_ I mean. I think there's a certain issue that... Many of the weapons that get the Incarnon treatment are weapons that can't necessarily be significantly re-tuned without screwing up other aspects of balance. Weapons like the Boar, Braton, Burston, Boltor, Strun, Latron, Paris, Bronco, Cestra, Kunai, Lato, & Lex are all weapons which require MR 4 or less to use, with a few even only having MR 2 or MR 0 requirements (Technically this is ignoring that most of these have a Prime variant with a higher prerequisite, but still). So, their early-game nature somewhat restricts just how much you acn improve them before they overshine later items. But, locking an Incarnon Adapter behind the Steel Path Circuit means that you can expand the design space for these improvements significantly.
@msjiminho84Literally part of why Warframe is good. It lets you have fun. Even hard bosses in the game can be extremely fun in comparison to most Bungie content.
Power creep isn't really the philosophy because old gear doesn't stop being useful just because you're further in the game. Yeah, your burston might be useless when you're starting Steel Path, but it'll come back into fashion once you get an incarnon. And don't get me started on the frames. Volt, Mag, and Excalibur remain useful from the start until the end of the game, and you don't really need to stop using them because they get weak. You'd only not use them if the content directly benefits another group of frames.
The difficulty in warframe is NOT usually completing the mission objective. It's configuring equipment and optimizing time spent in missions. The exceptions are the duviri circuit and deep achimedea. These modes lock rewards behind using random equipment you might not be used to, and will often need to learn in order to succeed.
The best way to describe Destiny 2 powercreep is like getting a new phone. In Destiny you use to get a new gun and it’s going to be the best one of its class for a few seasons. Eventually a far stronger one gets introduced and you’ll replace it. The problem with modern D2 is that we now get stronger versions pretty much every season and the upgrades aren’t that significant compared to older versions. Why would I grind for the 2024 phone (Hammerhead) when my 2020 phone (Commemoration) is only slightly worse and the 2025 phone (probably a reissued Corrective Measure) will be better than both of them?
Yeah, it's getting stale. This season alone changed meta in heavy slot TWICE. First with season introduction then with dungeon introduction. I am honestly done chasing.
I feel the exact same. Having to grind over and over for the same thing that'll be irrelevant with each season made me sick of the game. Another thing that annoyed me is the almost unified voice from the community about "the new best hand cannon!!!!!!1!1!!!1!" And the videos are all the same: new thing drops, we gotta hype it up, it's just a slightly better thing than the previous video covered.
Worst point I’ve ever seen. Hammerhead and commemoration is pretty much the same thing: void, rpm, most perks. But corrective measure is solar and rapid fire. If you’re going to compare and contrast, use weapons that are in the same archetype.
Since mods and formas are the primary method of increasing your overall power, it creates this “collection list,” mindset when it comes to acquiring new weapons and frames which not only adds a level of autonomy to the gear chase, but also indirectly incentivizes diversification of your arsenal.
Exactly..been playing since 2014. I hate grinding in games. I'm MR18 even with 2K+ hours solely bc I play what I like to use, and don't rlly grind weapons for the MR.
lets be honest, destiny bashing aside, having some competition on the "sci-fi online looter shooter" area would be nice, pity that bungie doesn't even know how to make a game these days
There are definitely some aspects of Warframe that have been power crept slightly; for example, I've seen a lot more discussion around Exalted Weapons abilities being underpowered compared to other abilities and weapons, especially in the endgame. The major difference, however, is that DE will occationally go back and change up some older things, give it a new lick of paint, or a full on rework if necessary, and bring it up to the power level that the game is operating on. We can see this happened recently with the Nyx Warframe. She was fairly niche before 1999, but she got a light rework to her kit and now she's practically one of the best Warframes in the game, all because of a handful of small changes that updated her to the modern age of Warframe. A lot of games dont do this, and I think it's a shame. Warframe has a lot of systems as well, such as the riven mod system, that give them easier knobs for tuning and balancing, without having to go in and change individual weapon stats and affect absolutely everyone.
As of now, ever since they started with Hydroid (or was it Grendel?), DE has been on a streak of warframes’ reworks that pretty much makes them go “from zero to hero”, whether it may be a few small tweaks or a full rework, and *this* makes the whole community very much happy
@ i’d argue as far back as the Saryn rework. Which was followed by the Wukong rework that made him the menace to society he is today. Believe it or not there was a time where Wukong was the laughing stock of Warframe. He was basically useless.
@@Enderlinkpawnuoh i remember. and it's funny how so many people were opposed to the rework before and shortly after it happened all because they can't stay afk anymore and never die. i wonder how those ppl are doing now
The thing I love about Warframe is the fact that I still own dual heat swords with a riven on them and they are absolute monsters, yeah the weapons I used like 7 years ago
@matoiiveyy2005it's simply the mark of a good beginner weapon that you're never forced to abandon it for something new if it happens to be exactly what you like.
I love Warframe, but on Destiny I'm still using Riskrunner, or Tractor Cannon, or Synthoceps, etc. This kind of comparison (and the video that spawns it) pretty much only exists as ammo for a "war" that doesn't have a reason to exist other than content creators needing content to pump out and insecure players needing to constantly proclaim the game they chose to play is better than the one they didn't. Both games are great if you are into them, and they also happen to be fairly different. Warframe is way closer to Diablo than it is to Destiny, mechanically. In reality in both games you can make most weapons and loadouts work, though usually for different reasons. I've spent a fair amount of time in both and plan to continue doing so for as long as they stay fun for me.
The thing with the weapons in both games is that in Destiny, if a weapon has shit perks but good stats, the weapon will still be shit. A weapon's viability in PvE is based on it's perks, and stats are there for fun, whereas in PvP it's almost the opposite, where a gun with good perks will still feel like shit if it has bad recoil or handling or any bad stat that affects the feel of the gun. In Warframe, as mentioned in the video, has a modding system that basically lets you turn your dinky ass pistol into a warcrime. Also, Bungie constantly nerfs things that get too powerful, and actively makes you feel powerless in harder difficulty content, like Grandmaster Nightfalls, where the more optimal plan is to stand back and team shoot things with a scout in the back due to everything one shotting you if you make a mistake. You literally fought gods and won, and have turned them into a weapon, but a slightly harder difficulty slider takes away most of your agency as a shot to the foot can be extremely punishing. In Warframe, enemies can do rediculous amounts of damage, but you can still survive despite a whole firing squad mowing you down if you have the right mod setup. Destiny has you cower behind a wall in harder difficulties, but Warframe kinda just lets you go wild
Here is the funny thing. The Stug, arguably warframes worst weapon, can actually be made into a great weapon with the right mods and arcane that have been added in recent updates throughout the year. MCGamerCZ made a video showing just this and it's wild. Especially when we saw just how bad the Stug is in Triburos' Stug only challenge
If a gun is good, it’ll have perks that boost its performance. I know you’ve never played pvp before because there’s armor mods that boost performance, while also having the lucky 5/5 that can make it good. (Zen moment, high ground, elemental capacitor, etc.) while armor has (dexterity, targeting, Icarus grip, etc.) and if you think “well, what if I want other armor mods,) trust me, nobody uses any other armor mods for pvp besides the one I mentioned because half don’t work.
Then ask yourself the question would you rather mow everything down without being Challenged at all or Face difficult content that demands more survivability playing as a team?
The hell are you on? GMs are usually quite fun because of the risk associated with getting up close. Luke genuinely the best build that is currently out for gms is triple consecration titans because of the sheer damage that it throws out onto enemies. And those are just the abilities, I'm not even mentioning things like your weapons or heaven forbid someone puts on speakers sight and makes everyone basically immortal while also giving everybody more super energy through orbs of power. Like genuinely this comment makes me realize how stuck in Beyond light you sound if you think that plink plonking with your scout rifle is the meta. And this is coming from someone who found GMs brutally difficult just a year ago. So I'm far from a high level veteran.
Bungie- “ this ability is too strong and killing enemies to fast with a high usage. Let’s bring it down to other lesser used abilities” DE- “ this ability is hitting massive numbers, let’s bring other lesser used abilities into line with this one”
DE sometimes decides to fix some issues with really badly designed warframes, yes, but imma be real with you like 2/3rds of my warframes would be better off subsuming on OP abilities instead of their unique kits
You make some solid points but I wouldn't phrase it as power creep but as monetization. Destiny is branded as Free to Play when anyone who's played Destiny will know it's anything but. Destiny is Free to Try but if you want to play you will be spending a SHIT TON of money on overpriced DLC. Warframe however actually is Free to Play, you don't have to spend a dime on Warframe if you don't want to. Digital Extremes regularly gives free rewards, packs, cosmetics, and discounts on their store items, in fact just yesterday I received a download pack that gave me free weapons, skins, and Platinum which is Warframes premium currency. Warframe prides itself on being genuinely Free to Play whereas Destiny seems hell bent on squeezing every penny out of the players as can be extracted. On top of this you get a truly amazing game with Warframe with some of the best storytelling, lore, quests, and expansions I've seen as well as some of the most fun movement, combat, progression, and overall gameplay I've seen in any game.
I hang with this chick who is big on trading. She’s never once bought platinum and is sitting at around 10k from trading. I’d be lying to say i’m not jealous. She can make offers and get people scrambling to buy from her. Meanwhile I make an offer that benefits the buyer and won’t see a nibble for months.
@@hiddendesire3076 It's wild how much freedom trading gives you. There's always easily accessible gear that someone will want to pay for, or someone else will always have gotten a relic drop that you haven't been able to, so there's never a situation where you'll be completely locked out of trying something. Meanwhile in Destiny, running VoG over and over again only to never get Vex Mythoclast can make you feel like the game is actively keeping something fun from you. I really wish Destiny had trading.
@@hiddendesire3076 Yea, buddy of mine did the same and hes sitting at over 30k plat. Im extremely jelly but I cant be bothered to sit in trade chat to strike deals
@@Rule907thats cause getting that much is a rare thing, most people are scrounging for scraps in terms of plat, thats kinda what the devs bank off is the fact they get the free publicity of technically being free to play while most people arent able to benefit from it
the thing about warframe powercreep is that, it has an easy solution, "we all lift together", basically because of the mod system, EVERYTHING is viable, both when it comes to weapons as well as frames. of course, some frames and weapons will have an easier time doing some stuff than others, but there's no real "bad" when it comes to warframe(unless we talking about the stugg of course). even the most lacking frames can still do level cap which basically means, the strongest level enemies. and level cap is one of those things people do for fun and its 100% a self imposed challenge that doesnt really offer any real reward for it beyond bragging rights.
What I personally find really cool is that DE are somehow _still_ finding new design space to explore with the mod system, even after all these years. Stuff like the Cannonade and Acuity mods in particular are really fascinating for me, because stat-locking effectively serves as a way to soft-force build variety, which gives the player meaningful choices when putting together a build based on their playstyle. Want to take advantage of those potent weak-point buffs from the Acuity mods? You have to give up multishot to do so, meaning your status chance and non-weakpoint damage is going to be hampered, so you'd better hope you're good at landing headshots. Another advantage of the system is that there are so many niche use cases and unique weapon traits that it's generally worth making the effort to obtain every mod even if it's not useful to you at the moment, because you never know what kind of interesting synergies might arise in the future. Like, I never thought I'd ever use Thunderbolt (Bow mod that gives arrows a chance to explode with a weak but sizable AOE) in a build, but then the Evensong (a Bow which automatically applies a large amount of puncture status effects to any enemy it damages, reducing their damage output to 0) came out and suddenly I had a use for it.
I feel as though Warframe's powercreep come with the effect of comfortability. You can be overpowered all you want, but if you don't feel good doing to, there's little point. For example, I main Yareli and I find her comfortable to use despite having Gauss prime. My Gauss prime can survive better than Yareli sure, but I prefer surfing around in missions with a K-Drive and melting everything with an ocucor.
I love how "Universally Viable" everything is in Warframe. Whether you prefer Yareli with an Ocucor, Garuda with a shotgun, or Lavos with a flamethrower, you can mix and match any frame and weapons you want and be more or less able to succeed in any content as long as you play well and mod your gear well. You don't need to tryhard or search endlessly for a META setup unless you WANT to, as long as you've got the basics down you can succeed.
I feel like that's the most pertinent factor that isn't really brought up: Warframe is just designed in a way to make very diverse builds possible. The problem with Warframe in my opinion is that this build diversity ends up pushing towards the same general metastrategy. Mass AoE burst damage-- the ability to just wipe entire rooms-- makes warframes focused on support and survivability less effective by comparison. The game still has a problem with making mechanics like nullifiers and overguard completely invalidate CC-focused frames-- because the best type of crowd control is just killing the enemy. Warframe handles its power creep much better than the p2w gorefest of modern Destiny, but warframe also has some really glaring problems
I believe that the most important aspect that makes it much easier to deal with power creep in Warframe is that NO EQUIPMENT is actually random (no random stats so no need to worry for the perfect roll), letting you access builds from the community with the same mods and pull off the same numbers as they do. The only thing that is random would be Riven mods, which are weapon-specific and have randomness that is determined by the overall use rate of the weapon itself, so if you use a less utilized weapon, the stats of the riven will roll better numbers in your favor!
eh DE doesnt worry about it being overpowered weapon, DE only concern and nerf overused weapons (Kuva Zarr, Kuva Bramma), frame (Wukong), helminth ability (Eclipse, Nourish)
@@varnix1006 Yeah, most of the changes they've made haven't been making you less powerful, but making sure you're actually playing the game. Explosive weapons and Wukong specifically got nerfed so if you want your clone to keep nuking hallways you had to actually run around and pick up ammo, lowering the maximum ammo explosive weapons could have so you couldn't sit comfortably for more than a few seconds. Reworks for Ember and Hydroid are also good examples. They don't care if you're powerful, they just want to know you're playing the game and having fun being powerful.
DE gives us new toys to mod and new mods to toy with, leading to combinations and synergies that go whole hog as soon as they're discovered and are rarely nerfed. If DE has to remove or rework something, it's usually to make it MORE accessible or player-friendly, not to nerf or remove it. Look at Parkour 2.0 as the evolution from Coptering, for example.
@@varnix1006 This. DE has always been against AFK farms. Back in the day there were a lot of "loot caves", spots where you could farm the entire map from a single spot without having to move and those always got nerfed pretty quickly. Mesas peacemaker used to not disable energy regen wich was also nerfed because people used her as just a turret to shoot the entire map from a single spot. etc. etc.
Warframe's method to its balancing is that if everything is broken, then nothing is. It's at the point where if you have the right mods, arcanes, companions, and frame abilities, then even the weakest weapon or Warframe can be usable for missions.
not only that, but alot of players look at "weak and underused" stuff and take it as a challenge to make it work. to see how they can combo stuff into it to make it do insanity and beyond. i literaly just saw a video of someone making a loki build that can go level cap with ease. and it did it by making use of decoy AND switch(and of course invis). that goes to show how versitile the system warframe has. a frame many players will say is underpowered, can still easily pull it off, if you decide to play around with it.
Power creep does exist in warframe but it was overshadowed 80 percent of the time. Even at steel path you rock an mk1 braton and still melt enemies with the right mods, warframe, secondary, or if you want to, an archon shard.
Warframe: “Your favorite Warframe isn’t strong enough anymore? Here let’s rework its kit or give it a unique easily freely obtained and leveled up modification that brings it right on up to modern level” Destiny: “What your favorite weapon is no longer the best? Here have a few more nerfs to your things that might buff it enough to be kinda usable”
Also Warframe: "Oh people use Sevagoth to one shot Babau and win the race in Steel Path Faceoff without wasting 3 mins to kill one? Lets nerf Sevagoth instead of balancing Babau eHP issue, and another nerf to Wukong because of how efficient he is to speedrun void fissure."
@@Xul-Xataat least DE will give a small nerf and be done with it, Bungie will nerf a thing, see people complaining about it being underperforming and nerf the thing that's doing better than it. This isn't a joke, they just announced they're nerfing base radiance because people were complaining about well of radiance having the same damage buff as song of flame after it got nerfed.
@Breadlootgoblin litteraly no one was complaining about well having the same damage buff as radiance and if they were it was most likely casuals most hardcore players haven't even mentioned well after it's nerf in final shape
Valuable words someone said to me when I first started, and nearly a decade later they're still the best advice I can pass along: "Damage is nice, but you don't need to focus only on it. Tech - utility - that's what really makes a difference."
Getting rid of Light Level in Destiny 2 forces the game to operate with another system for outgoing damage/damage taken by both the player and the enemies. It would force a more complex mod system similar to warframe's, rework of damage reduction and depending on the code, every thing that has Light Level attached to it. Destiny would heal instantly by doing that, but it would require a lot of time to implement. That system would be glorious for D3
Don't forget Warframe also has the Riven system which is designed exactly to make unpopular and less used weapons better. The least popular weapons has the best modding potential and it's being updated every few months.
The title of this video should be: "The difference between Bungie's and DE's business models" because that's really what's being compared here To add: In Destiny 2, the base light level of individual items is automatically increased (even for F2P players) to the current expansion's base level. Free to play players can reach max light level, even if they do not own the current expansion. Granted it takes a LONG time, its possible
Yep. DLC used to be $40 usd but now you have to buy dungeons separately and they bundle the 1st season pass with the DLC for "simplicity" aka they're forcing players who dont care for the subpar seasonal stories to buy them if they want to play the mainline expansion.
And I bought that shi bc tbh? Even though I don't touch D2 at all these days and haven't for months, the time I had with it since Beyond Light I enjoyed it's endgame far more than Warframes. Man. If Warframe brings back raids I'll be fully re-converted. I actually went to D2 from Warframe and have been playing the latter since 2014. They rlly just need focused, mechanically challenging endgame content that unifies the current smattering of content islands instead of adding to them. It's go so hard.
@@dylanr.cerezo4325 Warframe isn't destiny. Like Pablo said (lead game designer at DE) having raids in WF doesn't work. 4 op godlike dudes is already hard to challenge, impossible to do it with 8 of them. Raids are not coming back. "And I bought that shi bc tbh?" I mean you do you but when a product offer the same amount of content than other games, sometimes less so because it's removed for no reason -> for 4x the prices. I'd say it's not worth it. those are my 2 cents on the subject but the more I get older, the more I value what the product offers me for its price.
The first comment that actually describes Destiny 2's problem. The guy in the video uses D1 as his base, which is still accurate, but it doesn't apply to the "mass exodus" that D2 is currently experiencing.
9:50 Also worth noting that building & switching out weapons in Warframe is a lot easier. - A new OP mod shows up that is an objective upgrade to a mod you use now? Just drop a Forma onto the gun you're already using and upgrade it, or in some cases you might not even need to do that much (For Example, Galvanized Chamber/Barrel/Hell being basically an objectively better version of the Split Chamber/Barrel Diffusion/ Hell's Chamber mods for multishot, but also use the exact same mod polarity as the originals, so you can grind the endo for them & just freely swap them out. Or something like Semi-Rifle Cannonade where it's technically an upgrade to the base Serration, but then some argue over which is more useful because of the Locked Fire Rate mechanic. - A new OP Weapon shows up that fills the same niche as a weapon you already use? Well, basically nothing is stopping you from just taking the same build you put onto the first weapon and slapping them all onto the new gun (Aside from needing to get the Orokin Catalyst & Formas to set it up). - New guns are generally a fair bit easier to get than their Destiny equivalents in the first place. Like 1999 introduced the Reconifex which CAN be acquired via spending hours in survival missions rolling for the part blueprints, but you can also just buy them from Amir for standing, build it in your foundry, and take it out to use.
I would argue that what tells Warframe's powercreep apart from other games is how modular it is. You don't need to throw away your gear, you just need to buff it up with new mechanics that are introduced to handle higher level enemies. However, it is true that people could face those enemies before the new systems (by making use of incredible broken builds). So the new systems just bring a new layer of costumization and accessibility to higher performance builds. Even modding is gated by your hard work cause to gain access to more broken mods, it is required for you to do stuff like have played every mission in the star map.
Hell, even the limit of the levels of your mods rised by using and maximg gear, NO MATTER HOW OLD IT IS. In 2025 you can get a weapon that was from the start of the game and mastering it will have some worth at least.
“makes older pieces irrelevant” *shows ricegum* You have earned my subscription, i like how you tell jokes without actually saying them, like calling the players that spend a lot of money whales by showing a clip of a whale, very nice touch
One of the biggest things I noticed with Warframe's powercreep is that, a LOT of weapons end up perfectly usable even after being phased out of the meta, and even then with enough investment and build testing you can make them worth using, I've been using the Dera Vandal in SP content where it definitely wasn't intended to keep up with that before Incarnon forms
Warframe is one of those games where min-maxing and theorycrafting are fun, but as long as you know the basics of the modding system you can make just about anything work for the bulk of content available.
@Foxxie0kun One of the big things I noticed is that a lot of the "Powercreep" that gets implemented is new ways to make your gear good, Acuity dropped with a handgun that uses it, and no snipers, making its best users on Primary relegated to legacy gear, similar with the Elementalist mods
Bro, i honestly didnt want to comment on this video but like wdym powercreep in destiny 2 is due to LIGHT LEVEL? Its actually due to infusion that this argument falls flat, for better or worse. 1. You dont need the newest dlc to reach level cap (it just makes it faster from 5 weeks f2p to 2 weeks with everything paid, btw seasons/episodes are 3/4 MONTHS). 2. There is nothing in the game that requires you to RUSH the leveling system as everything hard (like GMs and Master) is after 5 weeks. 3. You dont need to be max level during the contest (the hardest content in the game according to D2 players) you simply need to complete the story (i know it might be SUPER difficult especially for someone who is going to do the hardest content in the game) 4. You dont need dlc to get upgrade modules, i have no clue which destiny you played that this was true (its literally a vender in the tower that sells it for glimmer through bounties, VERY DIFICULT CONTENT DECTECTED xD) According to you, which i dont agree personally, power level is what causes power creep is simply false. What does cause power creep is perks and subclass verbs. Simply put ALL of the arguments you made for power creep in destiny 2 in this video were blatantly false or extremely overexaggerated ex: infusion being SUPER HARD THAT YOU NEED THE DLC which is both overexaggerated and false. While i agree that D2 has power creep through new exotics and subclasses which are actually behind dlc (unlike upgrade modules xD). As such i can only assume you didnt play d2 at a level that power creep would be an issue and just decided to join the gang of D2 hate for some reason. The reason i personally don't care, i just wanted another possible take and solutions for D2 power creep, but instead i got a vid that just said a bunch of false info about the game to ?promote warframe?
Not only was our gear becoming obsolete with every dlc, but if you didn't hurry to farm the newest raid to increasing your LL, no one would want to take you into their raid squad.
Name one gear that magically becomes obsolete after a dlc. I still use my midnight coup AFTER the final shape and it slays. Deepstone crypt? I use the mg, hc, and sniper. Also if you don’t know how to do a raid, you’re going to be kicked.
I think Digital Extremes is also just a better company than Bungie. Their monetization is not predatory or required, And they actually interact with their player base on a regular basis. Just tonight they had their weekly Prime Time stream and end of month will be the Dev Stream. And their streams are real and live and not carefully curated corporate talking points. Primetime can get downright unhinged and it should never be any other way(think of it like Wayne's World). Now have they made monetization mistakes at times? Yes, They are not perfect. But they did own up to it and make changes.
DE really shows that what makes for a good company isn't being perfect, but rather being totally willing to listen to customers, improve problems, and happily admit to and fix mistakes. I could not care less that every now and then something stupid happens, because I trust that they didn't do it to be malicious, and that if the community all dislike it, they will change it.
5:00 - 5:30 is not true. you can get higher power level gear by playing any activities, then when you hit the soft cap, certain weekly activities (of which there are quite a few free options)
Warframe handles powercreep better because the affects are felt more in the floor than the ceiling. If the best weapons already oneshot most enemies, applying some new damage buff isn't really going to feel any more powerful. Whereas on bottom of the barrel weapons, that boost in damage significantly increases their viability in higher level content. We saw this massively with the armor/health rework, where the meta largely remained the same, but many B/C tier weapons began performing at steelpath level with minimal investment
The main problem I have with destiny and its power creep is that, whenever an new DLC comes out I would usually do everything I needed to do to get to the point that I needed, but then I’d hit a brick wall and can’t progress further, reason being for me to get stronger I’d have to do high end nightfalls and raids, both of which I can’t do because I don’t have friends that play and no random person is gonna want to play with an inexperienced person in a raid, or high difficulty nightfall, so the two biggest activities, I can’t participate in, that’s why when I started playing warframe in 2020 I never looked back at destiny, because everything in warframe I could do, either solo or in a random squad, and also because the game actually made me feel like all my time I spent levelling up my mods and getting prime weapons were actually worth it and could see the damage difference compared to destiny where I never saw a huge difference in damage
@ didn’t you read my comment, I said can’t do endgame content because I don’t have friends who play the game and no random person is gonna want to have a inexperienced person doing raids or high difficulty nightfalls
@lewisriding3137 Well that's just a skill issue. Hell even in beyond light as a new light I was able to just throw myself out there and ask for help in raids with a shitty mic. And I beat those raids with those five other teamates. Were they hard? Yes, but each clear I got with another group of randoms made the raid easier until I was blowing right past them through understanding the mechanics, teaching those who don't know and then coordinating other people when they struggled. Also, use the LFG system. It was introduced last year and it's fantastic. Literally just put up a post for what you want to do and you'll eventually get some people to help you so long as you communicate that you're less experienced. It's not that hard.
I just started warframe and I already learned how to spam melee and dashes at the same time while moving and learned that it can help me move at super speeds while hitting and destroying every enemy in my path, making me an anime swordsman lmao
Warframe Power Creep: Oh you think your strong, farm for another 1000 hours to get this new mod/arcane that makes you even stronger against these new enemies we made purposely strong, have fun! Destiny Power Creep: Oh that one weapon and exotic combo is a bit too strong, here is an entire sandbox change making everything you own weaker, and every play style you like worse. Now grind for 1000 hours to try and get this new gun which isn't any better than what you own, oh btw the loot tables are bugged so fuck you waste your time.
Power creep in Warframe is almost circumstantial because of mods and how certain weapons can sygergize with specific Warframes and play styles. There old weapons that make comebacks due to new mods or updates, and often times you can make similar builds that are still very effective.
5:48 no offense but you’re not entirely qualified to make this vid. Light level is not tied directly to dlc anymore. Light level is kinda minor compared to other forms of power creep because instead new guns are essentially mini exotics compared to old guns. There are major reasons why your overall argument is still pretty much correct but if you haven’t played d2 in a while it has changed a lot for better and worse.
The mod system really is the best, I don't think I would try to use half the weapons I got at a higher level if I had to dedicate a bunch of time to each individual weapon rather than a catalyst and some forma. Not to mention the new mods that lock stats create really interesting ways to build
The first point you made deems the whole video pointless since you don't understand what's causing the power creep in Destiny 2. The new power level is not the cause since you can increase the power level of old items. The actual cause is better perks on newer items, which is not something very common tbh. Most of the time better perks are going to show up on items acquired from raids and dungeons, which is the hardest content the game has to offer. So "good rewards for good challenges" is not a bad thing at all. I'm still using weapons dropped two years ago in a raid. Bungie also do perk refreshes for old raid weapons so they can match the power of new items. Saying Warframe handles power creep better than Destiny 2 is just wrong. Warframe's content update has no hard content most of the time so there's not much power creep. But the other side of the same coin is that there's not much player power progression. So they have to constantly pump out horizontal content with similar difficulty to keep the players entertained. Once you reach a point where you have most of the items, new items might not be as interesting to you anymore since you have guns like Torid already. Stagnant meta is also very bad for the game.
warframe's progression system is the best I've ever experienced in terms of making even the first weapons you get viable at end game. Ive never seen this before, and you don't have to grind for a ton of time on some sub optimal weapon, you can bring your leveled mods to any gun you have space for them. It's such a good system. and I love the fact that you can piecemeal make a build and pcik and choose the bonuses you want on everything. It's a more in depth system than I've ever experienced including complicated games like ARK where there are basically correct answers for everything
In Destiny 2, you pay 60 dollars per year to do 7% of a Bosses health bar per hit. In Warframe, you pay in hours played to be able to 1 shot every single boss all at once. Case closed.
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Destiny 2. 1.) Weapons don't become obsolete season after season, especially when those jumps are only 10 levels. People still use weapons from years ago because they're still good weapons, the power level has literally nothing to do with it. 2.) Upgrade modules are a lot more useful for power leveling than you're letting on. Just find an item with a higher power level that you don't want, and infuse it to the weapon you do, and then bam, power level is good. 3.) You don't need to buy the latest DLC to increase your power level, every player's power level cap increases with each season/expansion. 4.) FIreteam power is a thing now, meaning if your power level is super low for an activity, if one member of your fireteam has a higher power level, your power level increases 5 levels below it. 5.) Power level has literally nothing to do with regulating power creept because that's not what it's supposed to do, so your premise for your entire video is just wrong. 6.) It's called power level, not light level. I don't know how you managed to make this video while being so wrong, but I hope you conduct better research into these topics before you make videos on them.
The light level of a piece of equipment is completely irrelevant. You can make any piece of gear any lightlevel by simply stealing the light level of one and destroying it. Thats trivial because ALL drops you get in the new season drop at your current average light level. For comparison, that would be like sacrificing a mk1-braton to make anything from the previous season max level, if the mk1 had no crafting requirements or time investment, just 15,000 credits. If you did play Destiny, you had to have been 10 not to figure that out.
Most of his points against destiny aren't even accurate and I see him and comments saying you need to do the new raid to raise your power level or nobody will play with you lol The last time I remember that being a thing was like early Destiny 1, now if Warframe players want to talk about a decade ago, Warframe was barely a game back then.
@ After a whole rant saying "It doesnt matter what the actual qualities or perks of the weapon are, your FORCED to play with whatever the highest light level gear you have, or play sub-optimally". Then you act like sacrificing a piece of gear is a big deal when you can stand outside an enemy spawn location for 5 minutes and farm half a dozen duplicates at that new light level. xD I dont even play Destiny anymore but this video comes across as a massive bash by someone who played on their older brothers playstation when they were a little kid and never touched it again.
@@Maschine_Elf also power level only matters if you play everything solo to a degree. In destiny you can never grind but if your fire team member is higher power than you it brings your power up so that you can play hard activities with them.
Power creep in warframe isn’t as bad because it’s not locked behind a paywall AND certain things they add as power creeping can benefit the older frames the bond mods for the companions is an example the arcane that gives you max hp pero kill or Ability strength per max hp literally made nidus and inaros even better How about helminth? you can be like me, someone who likes loki but dislike the decoy ability, well then use helminth and give loki Nekro’s fear so now you are an invisible warframe armor stripping everything in sight Archon shards also made older frames work, power creep *does exist* but it doesn’t outright kill older frames or weapons especially with incarnon, prime or prisms variants
the thing about powercreep is, because of all the systems in the game, all it does now, is enhance older/weaker stuff. and we already have the ability to take pretty much any weapon and frame and do level cap with them, which means, no matter what they add from now on, its still not gonna be too op to ever be considered powercreep anymore...
Watching your stream lately and watching this now, you're a chill guy and I'm happy I found your channel. Eventually I'll stop missing your squad invites lol
It's very wise, what WF did. What is 'power'? The ability to realize results. What are results? Well, that can be changed. And so, what decides the most optimal 'power' route to it can change too, without taking away from what it can still be elsewhere. "Yes, you're very strong. Strength can take many forms." If the only metric a game boils down to is damage, yes, too much of it can break it. That's a simple game. If the results the objective asks for aren't always tied directly to *only* damage, it stops being the sole deciding metric, and thus its scope of impact isn't all-dominating. It stops *needing* to always be tightly reigned in. You can do 50 times integer overflow damage to that one or two mobs... of 40... but how will that actually impact the mission objective? You can bring your hyperjuiced mobmulcher 3000, sure, or your 7-step raindance ritual one-shot setup, but is it going to do appreciably more for progress in an Alchemy mission that's done by *picking up correct items and throwing them at an objective*, than someone else? Not really. So it's not a problem. Excessive power, overkill, just overflows into a bottomless hole of irrelevance. You can still derive dopamine from seeing such numbers, but there's no need for a nerf since it's not oppressing anyone else's ability to enjoy the game.
So I think you’re right that warframe probably handles its power creep better than D2 but you’re absolutely wrong about Light Level and Destiny 2’s power creep, light level doesn’t make gear irrelevant because you can just infuse your old gear up to your current power level by getting a stronger piece and cramming it into your older gear. No, what really gets power crept are weapon rolls/weapon archetypes. Some of the craziest weapons of the past don’t hold a candle to some of the most recent weapons dropped THIS SEASON and even then some of the new weapons are sometimes only incrementally better than a different god weapon that was dropped in the expansion.
What I like about Warframe is that Powercreep occurs (if it occurs) piece by piece. Your whole arsenal is your build: the Warframe, gun, secondary, melee and the mods equipped in all 4 of those. New mod? Get it and upgrade your favourite piece. New Warframe or weapon? Get it and put your old mods, less than a week of grind including waiting for items to craft. New game mode? Does my old build work? Is it AoE focused or Single target focus? Rarely is there something that renders old things useless, it always feels like "new thing just dropped to make your favourite thing 5% stronger" and your monkey brain starts to think about big pp numbers
Warframe deals with power creep by ignoring it until it goes away Once you have a mod, youve got that mod *forever* The mods stats will never change, never degrade, youll never just lose it, you will always be able to put that much more power into *any* weapon you get in the future
Although I completely think Warframe outclasses Destiny 2, I do gotta say that your video brings up a lot of invalid points about Destiny 2. Your entire explanation of power creep in Destiny 2 is just wrong. While I know you said you played more Destiny 1 than 2, 2 is the more relevant game and is up to date. Destiny 2 doesn’t get its primary power creep issues from light level. They’ve been increasing lenience on light level for a long time to the point where it’s essentially gone anyway by the fact that almost all sunset weapons have been either reprised or there’s just direct upgrades nowadays. They create power creep by constantly creating direct upgrades with literally no downsides compared to past weapons that are uninteresting and don’t create variation, which is why their power creep is so bad. It’s also gotten to a point where the difference between 2 weapons is so insignificant that getting a new weapon that’s the exact same as a previous with their god rolls but has an extra 2 range and 4 reload speed makes playing the game feel like a complete chore to be optimized. While the concept of your video is right, the content is completely wrong.
I was looking for this comment because it felt like he was critiquing mmos in general with how he was discussing the light level system and not how destiny actually is in its current state.
I played destiny 2 since launch when i was 14 the only possible way i could afford each dlc every year was to gameshare and alternate buying each one with my friend. shit was expensive, fortunately im going clean now and ive been free from that addiction since its final dlc
what makes me keep coming back to warframe is I still can use my favorite weapons and make it viable, warframe ENCOURAGES you to experiment with mods and weapons instead of just getting new weapons JUST to be effective and efficient.
A very long time ago, Warframe was incredibly anti-powercreep, where they had a patch that applied LoS to all abilities in retaliation to the community cheesing content. (I remember this patch was rolled back within a few days?) Though since then - with Pablo’s tenure and surveys asking if the community would be open to power creep - Warframe has embraced it and developed content to warrant said power creep. ie, Overguard, Eximi rework, Eximi spawns, more threatening units for new factions, higher level content, and hard mode in the form of Archimedea and whatever mode they are making for 1999. (The calander buffs are insane even on SP, and makes absolutely no sense unless there is a mode that requires 1999 world buffs.) Compared to before where they resorted to nerfing players directly by knee-capping their frames and weapons, we now see content designed to discourage problematic gameplay and power creep. As developers, DE has handled their game design incredibly well and grown significantly in the past decade…while Bungie, responded with “hold my beer” and belly flopped into an empty pool.
I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about Riven mods in this chat. Warframe has a system where the more commonly used a weapon is, the weaker the Riven. Conversely, the less-used a weapon is, the stronger the Riven effects will be. Thus, if you have a favourite weapon that fell out of fashion due to powercreep, a Riven mod will adjust to help keep that weapon relevant! It's exceedingly rare for a Riven on an old weapon to push said weapon ahead of current meta choices. However, the point is that Warframe takes steps to ensure weapons and gear you invest long hours into farming, building, and min-maxing never lose their relevance in the overall game. Rivens are one step towards that end.
1:41 LLMs are actually extremely good at explaining terms I've noticed. I have used it on occasion to explain the nuances of a term when I'm studying, and its answer is usually very good, especially since you can ask it the meaning of a term in context which is not possible with a normal definition. They miss on occasion and you do have to prod it a bit, but they are sometimes even better than actual people at it. Makes sense though since looking for patterns in language and stringing words together correctly is literally what its designed to do
got back into warframe after a 5 year break and was easily able to get going again! i tried D2 last year and was so lost and so much content was missing or locked so i gave up :/ missed the D2 boat
This powercreep problem that Destiny had is not unlike what we've seen in MMORPG's. As a former WoW player, I experienced it first hand. We would spend hours multiple days a week, doing the absolute toughest raids, getting fed only a tiny amount of great loot over a long period of time until at the end of the cycle you were decked in ridiculous gear and the game became trivial, while the raids were far easier due to experience and items. Then a new expansion came out, you start leveling in the new zone and soon enough, your hard earned epic items that you've worked so hard for, get replaced by random stuff you picked up by doing the base quests and you have to start the whole cycle all over again. I guess this system works, as many at least enjoyed doing this for some time, but it is not a fun way and certainly not an ideal way to handle this problem of needing new stuff to play for. The way Warframe handles this, is much more elegant. You need a ton of time to get the larger things going, like designing and grinding for an endgame build, or finishing all the quests, or building a large dojo. But there are always mini-taks and mini-goals that you can focus on all along the way to the larger goals, like trying to get a single weapon, warframe or mod. In warframe, they make most of the money by selling cosmetics, item slots and saving people time. They have an amazing playerbase that actively wants to support them, due to the consumer friendly way the MMO is set up. From what I hear from Destiny, who expects their customers to pay before they even get anything in return, this is not remotely comparable. In a way, I'm happy people are jumping ship and coming over to one of my absolute favorite games. But I'm a little sad that it is a rare bastion in a sea of snakes. Many companies do not build good relationships with their playerbase. Given the success and longevity of Warframe, I think other gaming companies should learn from DE and try to adopt many of their stronger features.
Something else Warframe does to counter power creep is the Riven system. The less used a weapon is by the general community, the greater the power it can get from a Riven, and the only reason a weapon would be less used is due to viability. So the less viable a weapon is, the more powerful its Riven will be.
New DLC/expansions making old equipment less valuable is how most MMO's have worked for 20+ years. In WoW, I would replace my most of my endgame gear from TBC with greens and blues I received in the first few levels of questing through Wrath of the Lich King. This is not exclusive to Destiny, and it's also not necessarily a bad thing, so long as players still feel like they are receiving appropriate value for the money and time they spent on the game.
What killed my interest in Destiny was way back in Taken King, when all of my equipment's effectiveness was cut in half. In particular, I was upset that the Thorn (which had taken me years to get because of a multiplayer requirement with an advancement count that went down every time I was killed in the Crucible) was suddenly rendered worthless. All of the time and effort that I had put into the thing was rendered pointless. Once I finished the story of the update, I stopped playing altogether.
@@dustinwashburn1283while yes they did lock the weapon out of being powered up in taken king they didnt lock it out of being used. Not to mention your time spent to get thorn does not add up as the game had only been out a year at that point and if it took years your thorn would have been the one from rise of iron which could be used in all content.
@@gremlinschanges Lol. You're right. It certainly felt like years though. I was still in the Navy when the game came out, and the time I was in felt like it was forever. Add to that the fact that it was the third expansion released, I could have sworn it was several years later. That's some egg on my face. Regardless, it did take most of my time and effort to get Thorn, only for it to be rendered effectively worthless in game. Which is a point that still stands, though I do feel slightly better about my ability in Crucible now (if worried that my ability to remember timeframes properly).
Meanwhile, anciwnt weapon named Amprex: - "Powercreep? Yeah, I send enough power through the creep to EXPLODE THEM." But to be fair, for every Amprex there is Exalted Blade.
I keep hoping beyond all hope we get a Tenet Amprex or Amprex Vandal or something. Maybe DE is afraid of what that would do, like how we don't have Prisma/Kuva Twin Grakatas or Kuva Ignis.
@@Foxxie0kun I mean, it would be cool to have that. But at the same time, Amprex is already a force of nature. It gets stronger with every new mod, every new buff from either new arcanes or new warframes. It's easy to turn it into a Steel Path destoryer. Just try to understand how it works. It's a beam weapon, it has high Crit Chance. It has good Status Chance for a beam weapon. It chains on enemies on the same level that you shoot them, so you can hit multiple headshots if you hit the first target in the head. Those factors alone should be enough to tell you how to build it.
The recent updates have also shown a real trend towards mods meant to help less viable archetypes of weapons became more useful again. In particular, Jade Shadow's series of semi _ cannonade mods and the weakpoint/stealth goodness from 1999 helps to lift up old weapons and playstyles without giving so much of a leap to the new stuff as to render old stuff useless.
how destiny handles power creep: we need to be careful, anything that becomes a bit strong must be carefully controlled How warfrane handles power creep: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN PLEASE FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS, BECAUSE WE ARE ON THE POWER CREEP BULLET TRAIN AND WE REMOVED THE BREAKS FOR AERODYNAMICS
I think another thing that benefits Warframe is that the dedicated players? the ones most likely to buy plat? who've put thousands of hours into the game? they're playing fashion frame. like, who needs powerful weapons? Ember's heirloom skin has all the weaponry players need (an ass so large it's got its own gravitational pull). DE understands their audience. I'm a little worried about how well they understand their audience, tbh.
Once you realize Bungie only cares about your money, doesn’t value the community voice and doesn’t respect your time, you’ll never play again. Once you realize Warframe respects your time, values your feedback and doesn’t need your money, you’ll never look at any live service game the same. Warframe will actually make you enjoy playing games again and change your perspective on everything.
WF problem is that the only way for them to introduce "difficulty" is disabling your abilities so you don't oneshot everyything with broken builds. So you have your fun build to clear trash that doesn't do any damage anyway, then you get to the boss and suddenly can't use 75% of your kit so your best bet is just using some cookie cutter build and strat.
There's two things I miss from Destiny 2, the way it felt playing with some of those guns (still salty that Hammerhead got yeeted) and the fact players could collide and push each other around. Warframe has enough going for it though that I feel no need to go back to Destiny 2.
so I'm not trying to defend Destiny 2 and their power creep, but you're going at the wrong point. Light level is honestly irrelevant in current destiny 2. You can still get to max power even if you don't own the DLC, hell you can hop in a fireteam with people that are max level and be put five levels below them right now. The true issue with powercreep in destiny 2 is that previous weapons becoming pretty much irrelevant because of the perks they drop with. Until there was a loot refresh there was no reason to do last wish or GOS besides you wanting to do it.
I think that rivens, one of the worst things for the market in general, was actually one of the better things for power creep and im glad they haven’t gone down that route multiple times of making a saturated market for things consistently. Archon shards and helminth really made frame builds unique to the person based on how they play. Sure there is a meta but you don’t need meta to do good damage and have fun. Then we get to arcanes to truly make the things shine, I cannot tell you how fun a primary crux on an Ax-52 with an overpowered wisp mote is! 120% ammo efficiency mowing down hordes of enemies is just immensely fun, and the best part is it’s intended. Is it the strongest weapon? Not by far, but it’s hilarious and makes it good in its own way for me.
one thing I always love when comparing both game devs and playerbase is that -Destiny players are Forced to pay for the sake of keeping up with content or they literally are stuck behind the paywall as paying members get the brand new gear and power increase -Warframe players PAY because they want the devs to keep bringing out content for everyone, the only thing that's purely paywalled is the skins made by non DE artists which is fine since DE still puts out platinum (tradable currency) quite often
9:44 the best examples of this would Incarcon forms. One of the guns you get at the start the Boltor has an incarnon form that pumps up its strength up even further if by so chance you ever want to take it out for another spin in the endgame
The difference in mentalities is so nice and refreshing, warframe: you could pay if you wanted to. Destiny: you will pay to continue. Haven't touched destiny since witch queen, glad it's failing and more people are starting to recognize it
Warframe has no problem with power creep simply because they leave you the ability to fight level cap enemies but they give you no quests that have enemies anywhere near the level cap. An example of this is the fact that the level of enemies in the newest update start around level 60 and go up to level 70 in standard missions (though you can get enemies of higher levels in endless missions if you stay in the mission long enough) but the level cap for enemies is level 9999. Even when you do steal path missions (basically Warframe's hard mode version) of these missions the weapons and gear we have access to are still able to take on that content with the right builds and with the right skills. I will not try to claim that all weapons in Warframe can do this content but there is a wide variety of weapons that can do it and you can earn these weapons in game without having to spend a cent of real money (in fact some of the best weapons can not be bought and must be obtained through gameplay) so it is easy enough to obtain a weapon you like that is capable of doing the content you are doing.
as a veteran of both games with over hundred days of playtime across both, i was originally gonna write a long comment explaining why despite being right in more places than not, your explanation of powercreep was poor but after seeing that you're a small and possibly relatively new creator, i won't. i will however say that warframe does indeed have powercreep; theres a reason why soma prime was meta gun i ran into in half my lobbies when i started and it currently has a use rate min the low single digits; the reason players dont notice it is because you're being balanced with steelpath and archon hunts in mind which are level 200; in comparison, normal game difficulty is about a third of that. its easier to see powercreep in weapon utility, new warframe abilities with similar functions as older ones and the fact that my sentinel fully primes enemies with an ability that ends its cooldown when i kill the enemy it made a one shot
So as somebody who used to be into Destiny, light levels never felt like the problem. Light was a vertical progression to access new content, while scaling you down so no content should lose relevance. Problem felt more like the new legendary perks and new exotics had abilities that just had better DPS. This made all the content boring to do multiplayer, since everyone is going to use the optimal stuff to finish the strike faster. From what I could tell, Warframe has a similar issue cause that's its appeal. If you love melting things thanks to your build and bullet jumping past everything to speedrun, play Warframe. If you want a bit more challenge and enjoyment from PvE multiplayer... Honestly, never found a MMO or MMO-lite for people like me.
Reading all of these comments on WF’s power creep I couldnt agree more. Let’s just say there comes a point in every tenno’s journey that they will have achieved everything and optimized every build that the most fun parts of the game become helping baby tennos, decorating/fashion frame, or mindlessly blowing up the map while watching a movie lol
The new Acuity mods, arcanes, and status rework really breathed a lot of life into Warframe's older weapons. It really is a game where you can make anything work, even the beloved Stug.
Ok now you are just reaching... Nothing can fix stug
@@zerlichr426 As if Stug ever needs fixing. He's perfect the way he is
Is there a incarnon for stug?
@@zerlichr426 Secondary Enervate, Spectral Serration, Arcane Crepuscular, etc… WE MAKING IT OUT THE ARSENAL WITH THIS ONE 🔥🗣️🙏
@@andrewbishop3236 Nope but that’s what I love about it ngl, it’s like rooting for the underdog. You can do it, Stug! You can clear base Steelpath!!! (And unironically, it can level cap albeit much slower than every other gun)
Warframe deals with power creep by not actually dealing with power creep. Warframe's goal isnt to give you a competitive and relatively balanced experience, it wants you to feel powerful and player power certainly has skyrocketed over the years.
DE did attempt to add things to the game to try and be a threat to players such as Nullifiers, Eximus Units, and Overguard which actively strip the player of tools but are no more than road bumps now.
Regardless of how its monetized the content design goal of both games are very different.
Yeah warframe at this point is just a point and click horde shooter most of the time while destiny is more of a fps that tries to be closer to Halo. It does feel kinda bad in WF tho when ur running through a mission and everyone is just nuking enemies before u even see them. It gets to the point sometimes I don't even see bodies cus they despawn too fast
@@Sqeaky6969 I will say that it is mildly disappointing when you’re the new player on a team mission and you don’t get to kill so any enemies because everyone else already killed them, but frankly, that’s not much of an issue to me personally. You are meant to be an overpowered super ninja who can dominate the masses, so seeing high-level players absolutely dominate the enemy while I’m in the backdrop is just fine with me. It just shows me how powerful I could become too if I continue leveling and getting stronger.
I’m just a few days into playing the game, and I’ve had the most fun I’ve ever had playing a game IN YEARS. It certainly feels like a better, more accessible experience than Destiny 2 is currently, and not just a point and click shooter. You’re not just shooting, you’re runnning, rolling, bullet jumping, wall jumping, hacking, parkouring, and going the speed of light. Why would I care about fighting most enemies? I’m not on their time, they’re on mine.
@@datwitchyswordfan that's fine and I get ur perspective as a new player, there's just specific things u sometimes have to do, without getting into spoilers, for either certain frames or weapons. Like there's weapons called incarnons where to "activate" them u either need to do damage of a certain type or get headshots for example and it's hard to do that when another player just pressed 4 and wiped the whole map. I've been playing for about 800 hours across pc and console and after awhile I want a challenge something to break the monotony of running through a map from point A to point B. I want an actual challenge and warframe doesn't offer that at all, I love the game it's a great game to pass the time and fulfill that power fantasy but just like one punch man, if you've ever seen it, it gets boring sometimes being overpowered and never actually being challenged since u tear through enemies like paper mache. Thats why a lot of people take long, sometimes years long breaks
It make warframe such an ungodly boring game compared to other looter shooters, hopefully the devs'll actually nerf shit eventually
For what ive seen, wf lets you use any frame and make them good or “viable” for endgame. The problem is that a lot of frames are pointless to use cause some are just arguably better. Also, endgame gets boring quickly cause its just farming ( materials, frames) and thts it. No pvp, no raids and no dungeons. So you’re left doing the same thing constantly.
TBH, one of the coolest thing WF did in regards to power creep, was to add the Incarnon adapters.
I turned old shit weapons into godlike weapons.
Yep you liked a weapon but its not the, blatant meta? Wait until there's a prime version, or a lich version, or even until it gets a incarnon.
Meanwhile, you could eat GOOD if you liked it and had a riven on hand lol (my Strun Wraith)
I def like the incarnons, but i would’ve like it more if they made the incarnons their own seperate thing and actually reworking old weapons instead. Still cool though 😁
@@NyRaXT_arent there just natural incarnon weapons like the laetum?
@@NyRaXT_ I mean. I think there's a certain issue that... Many of the weapons that get the Incarnon treatment are weapons that can't necessarily be significantly re-tuned without screwing up other aspects of balance.
Weapons like the Boar, Braton, Burston, Boltor, Strun, Latron, Paris, Bronco, Cestra, Kunai, Lato, & Lex are all weapons which require MR 4 or less to use, with a few even only having MR 2 or MR 0 requirements (Technically this is ignoring that most of these have a Prime variant with a higher prerequisite, but still). So, their early-game nature somewhat restricts just how much you acn improve them before they overshine later items.
But, locking an Incarnon Adapter behind the Steel Path Circuit means that you can expand the design space for these improvements significantly.
Power creep isn't a problem it's the whole design philosophy of warframe
Power creep is getting so bad but then i remember this is just pure power fantasy lol
@beeleuazevedo8142 always remember that warframe is a sandbox and should be played like one
Literally. Reading the lore and becoming the walking juggernaut you're described as is part of the fun.
@msjiminho84Literally part of why Warframe is good. It lets you have fun. Even hard bosses in the game can be extremely fun in comparison to most Bungie content.
Power creep isn't really the philosophy because old gear doesn't stop being useful just because you're further in the game. Yeah, your burston might be useless when you're starting Steel Path, but it'll come back into fashion once you get an incarnon.
And don't get me started on the frames. Volt, Mag, and Excalibur remain useful from the start until the end of the game, and you don't really need to stop using them because they get weak. You'd only not use them if the content directly benefits another group of frames.
The difficulty in warframe is NOT usually completing the mission objective. It's configuring equipment and optimizing time spent in missions.
The exceptions are the duviri circuit and deep achimedea. These modes lock rewards behind using random equipment you might not be used to, and will often need to learn in order to succeed.
The difficulty is managing to find an enemy to kill as other players just nuke the mission.
The best way to describe Destiny 2 powercreep is like getting a new phone. In Destiny you use to get a new gun and it’s going to be the best one of its class for a few seasons. Eventually a far stronger one gets introduced and you’ll replace it. The problem with modern D2 is that we now get stronger versions pretty much every season and the upgrades aren’t that significant compared to older versions.
Why would I grind for the 2024 phone (Hammerhead) when my 2020 phone (Commemoration) is only slightly worse and the 2025 phone (probably a reissued Corrective Measure) will be better than both of them?
Yeah, it's getting stale. This season alone changed meta in heavy slot TWICE. First with season introduction then with dungeon introduction. I am honestly done chasing.
I feel the exact same. Having to grind over and over for the same thing that'll be irrelevant with each season made me sick of the game. Another thing that annoyed me is the almost unified voice from the community about "the new best hand cannon!!!!!!1!1!!!1!" And the videos are all the same: new thing drops, we gotta hype it up, it's just a slightly better thing than the previous video covered.
Worst point I’ve ever seen. Hammerhead and commemoration is pretty much the same thing: void, rpm, most perks. But corrective measure is solar and rapid fire. If you’re going to compare and contrast, use weapons that are in the same archetype.
Same thing could be said with wf, why i grind to get a specific wArframe/weapon if one is just better overall?
@@Moonlight40471
- Mastery rank
- Subsume
That alone is good enough
Honestly warframes power progression is mostly horizontal while destiny's is entirely vertical. Thats the big issue
Yes, acquiring new warframes, weapons and mods is the way to play it. Diversify your collection to keep mowing your enemies.
Since mods and formas are the primary method of increasing your overall power, it creates this “collection list,” mindset when it comes to acquiring new weapons and frames which not only adds a level of autonomy to the gear chase, but also indirectly incentivizes diversification of your arsenal.
@J-manli it's literally a sticker book arms race
Exactly..been playing since 2014. I hate grinding in games. I'm MR18 even with 2K+ hours solely bc I play what I like to use, and don't rlly grind weapons for the MR.
@@themessiah..
The craziest sticker book ever.
lets be honest, destiny bashing aside, having some competition on the "sci-fi online looter shooter" area would be nice, pity that bungie doesn't even know how to make a game these days
Bungie is dead. The last few people left of Bungie are going to be subsumed by Sony soon enough.
Most of the studios don't know how to make games these days 🤔
@@Sal-fg3rs Idk if you using the word 'Subsume' was an intentional Warframe pun or not 😂
It kinda sucks that the only real "competition" Warframe has on that front is a Warframe clone made by Nexon called The First Descendant.
Bungie stopped knowing how to make a game the moment halo 3 finished. Everything after that was just 👎
There are definitely some aspects of Warframe that have been power crept slightly; for example, I've seen a lot more discussion around Exalted Weapons abilities being underpowered compared to other abilities and weapons, especially in the endgame. The major difference, however, is that DE will occationally go back and change up some older things, give it a new lick of paint, or a full on rework if necessary, and bring it up to the power level that the game is operating on. We can see this happened recently with the Nyx Warframe. She was fairly niche before 1999, but she got a light rework to her kit and now she's practically one of the best Warframes in the game, all because of a handful of small changes that updated her to the modern age of Warframe. A lot of games dont do this, and I think it's a shame.
Warframe has a lot of systems as well, such as the riven mod system, that give them easier knobs for tuning and balancing, without having to go in and change individual weapon stats and affect absolutely everyone.
let's not forget that sometimes DE releases some broken mods that can turn around some bad weapons into monsters that can clean rooms with no effort.
As of now, ever since they started with Hydroid (or was it Grendel?), DE has been on a streak of warframes’ reworks that pretty much makes them go “from zero to hero”, whether it may be a few small tweaks or a full rework, and *this* makes the whole community very much happy
@ i’d argue as far back as the Saryn rework. Which was followed by the Wukong rework that made him the menace to society he is today.
Believe it or not there was a time where Wukong was the laughing stock of Warframe. He was basically useless.
@@Enderlinkpawnuoh i remember. and it's funny how so many people were opposed to the rework before and shortly after it happened all because they can't stay afk anymore and never die. i wonder how those ppl are doing now
Me patiently waiting for them to address Chromas ruinous effigy and its horrible energy consumption to effectiveness ratio…
The thing I love about Warframe is the fact that I still own dual heat swords with a riven on them and they are absolute monsters, yeah the weapons I used like 7 years ago
Afflictions legit goes hard on them, works through SP
Dex Nikana along with Pressure Point, Volcanic Edge, and Rendering Strike. Only melee setup I'll ever need 😊.
I'm still using my first Skana from like 2014 or 2015 whenever I started to play, like build that right, it's a red critical monster
skana is actually scary good for a starter weapon, love skana
Skana incarnon is quite fun to play
the only reason i sold my skana is because i got the prisma version. and i used it often.
@matoiiveyy2005it's simply the mark of a good beginner weapon that you're never forced to abandon it for something new if it happens to be exactly what you like.
I love Warframe, but on Destiny I'm still using Riskrunner, or Tractor Cannon, or Synthoceps, etc. This kind of comparison (and the video that spawns it) pretty much only exists as ammo for a "war" that doesn't have a reason to exist other than content creators needing content to pump out and insecure players needing to constantly proclaim the game they chose to play is better than the one they didn't.
Both games are great if you are into them, and they also happen to be fairly different. Warframe is way closer to Diablo than it is to Destiny, mechanically. In reality in both games you can make most weapons and loadouts work, though usually for different reasons.
I've spent a fair amount of time in both and plan to continue doing so for as long as they stay fun for me.
The thing with the weapons in both games is that in Destiny, if a weapon has shit perks but good stats, the weapon will still be shit. A weapon's viability in PvE is based on it's perks, and stats are there for fun, whereas in PvP it's almost the opposite, where a gun with good perks will still feel like shit if it has bad recoil or handling or any bad stat that affects the feel of the gun. In Warframe, as mentioned in the video, has a modding system that basically lets you turn your dinky ass pistol into a warcrime. Also, Bungie constantly nerfs things that get too powerful, and actively makes you feel powerless in harder difficulty content, like Grandmaster Nightfalls, where the more optimal plan is to stand back and team shoot things with a scout in the back due to everything one shotting you if you make a mistake. You literally fought gods and won, and have turned them into a weapon, but a slightly harder difficulty slider takes away most of your agency as a shot to the foot can be extremely punishing. In Warframe, enemies can do rediculous amounts of damage, but you can still survive despite a whole firing squad mowing you down if you have the right mod setup. Destiny has you cower behind a wall in harder difficulties, but Warframe kinda just lets you go wild
Bungie nerf things that is obviously powerful, while DE nerf things that is publicly overused.
Here is the funny thing. The Stug, arguably warframes worst weapon, can actually be made into a great weapon with the right mods and arcane that have been added in recent updates throughout the year. MCGamerCZ made a video showing just this and it's wild. Especially when we saw just how bad the Stug is in Triburos' Stug only challenge
If a gun is good, it’ll have perks that boost its performance. I know you’ve never played pvp before because there’s armor mods that boost performance, while also having the lucky 5/5 that can make it good. (Zen moment, high ground, elemental capacitor, etc.) while armor has (dexterity, targeting, Icarus grip, etc.) and if you think “well, what if I want other armor mods,) trust me, nobody uses any other armor mods for pvp besides the one I mentioned because half don’t work.
Then ask yourself the question would you rather mow everything down without being Challenged at all or Face difficult content that demands more survivability playing as a team?
The hell are you on?
GMs are usually quite fun because of the risk associated with getting up close. Luke genuinely the best build that is currently out for gms is triple consecration titans because of the sheer damage that it throws out onto enemies. And those are just the abilities, I'm not even mentioning things like your weapons or heaven forbid someone puts on speakers sight and makes everyone basically immortal while also giving everybody more super energy through orbs of power.
Like genuinely this comment makes me realize how stuck in Beyond light you sound if you think that plink plonking with your scout rifle is the meta.
And this is coming from someone who found GMs brutally difficult just a year ago. So I'm far from a high level veteran.
Bungie- “ this ability is too strong and killing enemies to fast with a high usage. Let’s bring it down to other lesser used abilities”
DE- “ this ability is hitting massive numbers, let’s bring other lesser used abilities into line with this one”
DE sometimes decides to fix some issues with really badly designed warframes, yes, but imma be real with you like 2/3rds of my warframes would be better off subsuming on OP abilities instead of their unique kits
You make some solid points but I wouldn't phrase it as power creep but as monetization.
Destiny is branded as Free to Play when anyone who's played Destiny will know it's anything but. Destiny is Free to Try but if you want to play you will be spending a SHIT TON of money on overpriced DLC.
Warframe however actually is Free to Play, you don't have to spend a dime on Warframe if you don't want to. Digital Extremes regularly gives free rewards, packs, cosmetics, and discounts on their store items, in fact just yesterday I received a download pack that gave me free weapons, skins, and Platinum which is Warframes premium currency.
Warframe prides itself on being genuinely Free to Play whereas Destiny seems hell bent on squeezing every penny out of the players as can be extracted. On top of this you get a truly amazing game with Warframe with some of the best storytelling, lore, quests, and expansions I've seen as well as some of the most fun movement, combat, progression, and overall gameplay I've seen in any game.
I hang with this chick who is big on trading. She’s never once bought platinum and is sitting at around 10k from trading. I’d be lying to say i’m not jealous. She can make offers and get people scrambling to buy from her. Meanwhile I make an offer that benefits the buyer and won’t see a nibble for months.
@@hiddendesire3076 It's wild how much freedom trading gives you. There's always easily accessible gear that someone will want to pay for, or someone else will always have gotten a relic drop that you haven't been able to, so there's never a situation where you'll be completely locked out of trying something. Meanwhile in Destiny, running VoG over and over again only to never get Vex Mythoclast can make you feel like the game is actively keeping something fun from you. I really wish Destiny had trading.
If u got ps plus theres a new pack out rn.
@@hiddendesire3076 Yea, buddy of mine did the same and hes sitting at over 30k plat. Im extremely jelly but I cant be bothered to sit in trade chat to strike deals
@@Rule907thats cause getting that much is a rare thing, most people are scrounging for scraps in terms of plat, thats kinda what the devs bank off is the fact they get the free publicity of technically being free to play while most people arent able to benefit from it
the thing about warframe powercreep is that, it has an easy solution, "we all lift together", basically because of the mod system, EVERYTHING is viable, both when it comes to weapons as well as frames.
of course, some frames and weapons will have an easier time doing some stuff than others, but there's no real "bad" when it comes to warframe(unless we talking about the stugg of course).
even the most lacking frames can still do level cap which basically means, the strongest level enemies. and level cap is one of those things people do for fun and its 100% a self imposed challenge that doesnt really offer any real reward for it beyond bragging rights.
even the stug is """"""""""strong"""""""""""""" now because of the ennervate arcane
XD
i saw someone beat the apex tank with the stugg
What I personally find really cool is that DE are somehow _still_ finding new design space to explore with the mod system, even after all these years. Stuff like the Cannonade and Acuity mods in particular are really fascinating for me, because stat-locking effectively serves as a way to soft-force build variety, which gives the player meaningful choices when putting together a build based on their playstyle.
Want to take advantage of those potent weak-point buffs from the Acuity mods? You have to give up multishot to do so, meaning your status chance and non-weakpoint damage is going to be hampered, so you'd better hope you're good at landing headshots.
Another advantage of the system is that there are so many niche use cases and unique weapon traits that it's generally worth making the effort to obtain every mod even if it's not useful to you at the moment, because you never know what kind of interesting synergies might arise in the future. Like, I never thought I'd ever use Thunderbolt (Bow mod that gives arrows a chance to explode with a weak but sizable AOE) in a build, but then the Evensong (a Bow which automatically applies a large amount of puncture status effects to any enemy it damages, reducing their damage output to 0) came out and suddenly I had a use for it.
I feel as though Warframe's powercreep come with the effect of comfortability.
You can be overpowered all you want, but if you don't feel good doing to, there's little point. For example, I main Yareli and I find her comfortable to use despite having Gauss prime. My Gauss prime can survive better than Yareli sure, but I prefer surfing around in missions with a K-Drive and melting everything with an ocucor.
I love how "Universally Viable" everything is in Warframe. Whether you prefer Yareli with an Ocucor, Garuda with a shotgun, or Lavos with a flamethrower, you can mix and match any frame and weapons you want and be more or less able to succeed in any content as long as you play well and mod your gear well. You don't need to tryhard or search endlessly for a META setup unless you WANT to, as long as you've got the basics down you can succeed.
I feel like that's the most pertinent factor that isn't really brought up: Warframe is just designed in a way to make very diverse builds possible.
The problem with Warframe in my opinion is that this build diversity ends up pushing towards the same general metastrategy. Mass AoE burst damage-- the ability to just wipe entire rooms-- makes warframes focused on support and survivability less effective by comparison. The game still has a problem with making mechanics like nullifiers and overguard completely invalidate CC-focused frames-- because the best type of crowd control is just killing the enemy.
Warframe handles its power creep much better than the p2w gorefest of modern Destiny, but warframe also has some really glaring problems
I believe that the most important aspect that makes it much easier to deal with power creep in Warframe is that NO EQUIPMENT is actually random (no random stats so no need to worry for the perfect roll), letting you access builds from the community with the same mods and pull off the same numbers as they do.
The only thing that is random would be Riven mods, which are weapon-specific and have randomness that is determined by the overall use rate of the weapon itself, so if you use a less utilized weapon, the stats of the riven will roll better numbers in your favor!
We don't worry about power creep over on warframe. The devs worry about our power creep. XD
eh DE doesnt worry about it being overpowered weapon, DE only concern and nerf overused weapons (Kuva Zarr, Kuva Bramma), frame (Wukong), helminth ability (Eclipse, Nourish)
@@Xul-Xata more like they nerfed AFK meta. Jade Light Eximus is the literal anti AFK measure.
@@varnix1006 Yeah, most of the changes they've made haven't been making you less powerful, but making sure you're actually playing the game. Explosive weapons and Wukong specifically got nerfed so if you want your clone to keep nuking hallways you had to actually run around and pick up ammo, lowering the maximum ammo explosive weapons could have so you couldn't sit comfortably for more than a few seconds. Reworks for Ember and Hydroid are also good examples. They don't care if you're powerful, they just want to know you're playing the game and having fun being powerful.
DE gives us new toys to mod and new mods to toy with, leading to combinations and synergies that go whole hog as soon as they're discovered and are rarely nerfed.
If DE has to remove or rework something, it's usually to make it MORE accessible or player-friendly, not to nerf or remove it. Look at Parkour 2.0 as the evolution from Coptering, for example.
@@varnix1006 This. DE has always been against AFK farms. Back in the day there were a lot of "loot caves", spots where you could farm the entire map from a single spot without having to move and those always got nerfed pretty quickly. Mesas peacemaker used to not disable energy regen wich was also nerfed because people used her as just a turret to shoot the entire map from a single spot. etc. etc.
Warframe's method to its balancing is that if everything is broken, then nothing is. It's at the point where if you have the right mods, arcanes, companions, and frame abilities, then even the weakest weapon or Warframe can be usable for missions.
Literally you can use anything in warframe if you have the right mods and arcanes. If you build it right you can pretty much solo any content.
not only that, but alot of players look at "weak and underused" stuff and take it as a challenge to make it work. to see how they can combo stuff into it to make it do insanity and beyond.
i literaly just saw a video of someone making a loki build that can go level cap with ease. and it did it by making use of decoy AND switch(and of course invis). that goes to show how versitile the system warframe has.
a frame many players will say is underpowered, can still easily pull it off, if you decide to play around with it.
Clearing the star chart with nothing but a stug is tedious, but entirely possible.
@@marcosdhelenoomg I am doing this with Penta as well XD
So far pretty good, pretty I could make it into a carpet bomber if I tried
I’ve seen a dude use an entire common loadout and slay Destiny endgame content. It’s not a weapon issue, it’s a skill issue.
Power creep does exist in warframe but it was overshadowed 80 percent of the time. Even at steel path you rock an mk1 braton and still melt enemies with the right mods, warframe, secondary, or if you want to, an archon shard.
Warframe: “Your favorite Warframe isn’t strong enough anymore? Here let’s rework its kit or give it a unique easily freely obtained and leveled up modification that brings it right on up to modern level”
Destiny: “What your favorite weapon is no longer the best? Here have a few more nerfs to your things that might buff it enough to be kinda usable”
Also Warframe: "Oh people use Sevagoth to one shot Babau and win the race in Steel Path Faceoff without wasting 3 mins to kill one? Lets nerf Sevagoth instead of balancing Babau eHP issue, and another nerf to Wukong because of how efficient he is to speedrun void fissure."
@@Xul-Xataat least DE will give a small nerf and be done with it, Bungie will nerf a thing, see people complaining about it being underperforming and nerf the thing that's doing better than it.
This isn't a joke, they just announced they're nerfing base radiance because people were complaining about well of radiance having the same damage buff as song of flame after it got nerfed.
@@Xul-Xata Hey, it still works except now you have to remove the oveguard, so it's still good, just takes a little effort
@Breadlootgoblin litteraly no one was complaining about well having the same damage buff as radiance and if they were it was most likely casuals most hardcore players haven't even mentioned well after it's nerf in final shape
@DawnAfternoon it's to put wells damage buff above the rest yk seeing how that's it's point. It's also a 5% nerf it litteraly ain't that deep
Valuable words someone said to me when I first started, and nearly a decade later they're still the best advice I can pass along: "Damage is nice, but you don't need to focus only on it. Tech - utility - that's what really makes a difference."
Getting rid of Light Level in Destiny 2 forces the game to operate with another system for outgoing damage/damage taken by both the player and the enemies. It would force a more complex mod system similar to warframe's, rework of damage reduction and depending on the code, every thing that has Light Level attached to it.
Destiny would heal instantly by doing that, but it would require a lot of time to implement. That system would be glorious for D3
Don't forget Warframe also has the Riven system which is designed exactly to make unpopular and less used weapons better. The least popular weapons has the best modding potential and it's being updated every few months.
The title of this video should be: "The difference between Bungie's and DE's business models" because that's really what's being compared here
To add: In Destiny 2, the base light level of individual items is automatically increased (even for F2P players) to the current expansion's base level. Free to play players can reach max light level, even if they do not own the current expansion. Granted it takes a LONG time, its possible
I wish d2 dlc was $30. Light fall dropped at $70 just for the dlc and $100 dlc+ season pass. Final shape also dropped with very similar numbers.
My god that sounds ridiculous 😮
And ppl bought those... Jesus.
Yep. DLC used to be $40 usd but now you have to buy dungeons separately and they bundle the 1st season pass with the DLC for "simplicity" aka they're forcing players who dont care for the subpar seasonal stories to buy them if they want to play the mainline expansion.
And I bought that shi bc tbh? Even though I don't touch D2 at all these days and haven't for months, the time I had with it since Beyond Light I enjoyed it's endgame far more than Warframes.
Man. If Warframe brings back raids I'll be fully re-converted. I actually went to D2 from Warframe and have been playing the latter since 2014. They rlly just need focused, mechanically challenging endgame content that unifies the current smattering of content islands instead of adding to them. It's go so hard.
@@dylanr.cerezo4325 Warframe isn't destiny. Like Pablo said (lead game designer at DE) having raids in WF doesn't work. 4 op godlike dudes is already hard to challenge, impossible to do it with 8 of them. Raids are not coming back.
"And I bought that shi bc tbh?" I mean you do you but when a product offer the same amount of content than other games, sometimes less so because it's removed for no reason -> for 4x the prices. I'd say it's not worth it. those are my 2 cents on the subject but the more I get older, the more I value what the product offers me for its price.
The real problem with Destiny’s power creep is the perks they keep adding on new weapons the power level and infusing is more of an annoyance
The first comment that actually describes Destiny 2's problem. The guy in the video uses D1 as his base, which is still accurate, but it doesn't apply to the "mass exodus" that D2 is currently experiencing.
New perks on new weapons is a bad thing?
@ no the perks are power creeping
9:50
Also worth noting that building & switching out weapons in Warframe is a lot easier.
- A new OP mod shows up that is an objective upgrade to a mod you use now? Just drop a Forma onto the gun you're already using and upgrade it, or in some cases you might not even need to do that much (For Example, Galvanized Chamber/Barrel/Hell being basically an objectively better version of the Split Chamber/Barrel Diffusion/ Hell's Chamber mods for multishot, but also use the exact same mod polarity as the originals, so you can grind the endo for them & just freely swap them out. Or something like Semi-Rifle Cannonade where it's technically an upgrade to the base Serration, but then some argue over which is more useful because of the Locked Fire Rate mechanic.
- A new OP Weapon shows up that fills the same niche as a weapon you already use? Well, basically nothing is stopping you from just taking the same build you put onto the first weapon and slapping them all onto the new gun (Aside from needing to get the Orokin Catalyst & Formas to set it up).
- New guns are generally a fair bit easier to get than their Destiny equivalents in the first place. Like 1999 introduced the Reconifex which CAN be acquired via spending hours in survival missions rolling for the part blueprints, but you can also just buy them from Amir for standing, build it in your foundry, and take it out to use.
I would argue that what tells Warframe's powercreep apart from other games is how modular it is. You don't need to throw away your gear, you just need to buff it up with new mechanics that are introduced to handle higher level enemies. However, it is true that people could face those enemies before the new systems (by making use of incredible broken builds). So the new systems just bring a new layer of costumization and accessibility to higher performance builds. Even modding is gated by your hard work cause to gain access to more broken mods, it is required for you to do stuff like have played every mission in the star map.
Hell, even the limit of the levels of your mods rised by using and maximg gear, NO MATTER HOW OLD IT IS. In 2025 you can get a weapon that was from the start of the game and mastering it will have some worth at least.
The problem is that Destiny is soo bland, anything slightly powerful stands out way too much.
“makes older pieces irrelevant”
*shows ricegum*
You have earned my subscription, i like how you tell jokes without actually saying them, like calling the players that spend a lot of money whales by showing a clip of a whale, very nice touch
One of the biggest things I noticed with Warframe's powercreep is that, a LOT of weapons end up perfectly usable even after being phased out of the meta, and even then with enough investment and build testing you can make them worth using, I've been using the Dera Vandal in SP content where it definitely wasn't intended to keep up with that before Incarnon forms
Warframe is one of those games where min-maxing and theorycrafting are fun, but as long as you know the basics of the modding system you can make just about anything work for the bulk of content available.
@Foxxie0kun One of the big things I noticed is that a lot of the "Powercreep" that gets implemented is new ways to make your gear good, Acuity dropped with a handgun that uses it, and no snipers, making its best users on Primary relegated to legacy gear, similar with the Elementalist mods
_stares in World of Warcraft Player_ Yes, the younger generations follow in our footsteps...
Bro, i honestly didnt want to comment on this video but like wdym powercreep in destiny 2 is due to LIGHT LEVEL?
Its actually due to infusion that this argument falls flat, for better or worse.
1. You dont need the newest dlc to reach level cap (it just makes it faster from 5 weeks f2p to 2 weeks with everything paid, btw seasons/episodes are 3/4 MONTHS).
2. There is nothing in the game that requires you to RUSH the leveling system as everything hard (like GMs and Master) is after 5 weeks.
3. You dont need to be max level during the contest (the hardest content in the game according to D2 players) you simply need to complete the story (i know it might be SUPER difficult especially for someone who is going to do the hardest content in the game)
4. You dont need dlc to get upgrade modules, i have no clue which destiny you played that this was true (its literally a vender in the tower that sells it for glimmer through bounties, VERY DIFICULT CONTENT DECTECTED xD)
According to you, which i dont agree personally, power level is what causes power creep is simply false. What does cause power creep is perks and subclass verbs.
Simply put ALL of the arguments you made for power creep in destiny 2 in this video were blatantly false or extremely overexaggerated ex: infusion being SUPER HARD THAT YOU NEED THE DLC which is both overexaggerated and false.
While i agree that D2 has power creep through new exotics and subclasses which are actually behind dlc (unlike upgrade modules xD).
As such i can only assume you didnt play d2 at a level that power creep would be an issue and just decided to join the gang of D2 hate for some reason. The reason i personally don't care, i just wanted another possible take and solutions for D2 power creep, but instead i got a vid that just said a bunch of false info about the game to ?promote warframe?
Not only was our gear becoming obsolete with every dlc, but if you didn't hurry to farm the newest raid to increasing your LL, no one would want to take you into their raid squad.
Name one gear that magically becomes obsolete after a dlc. I still use my midnight coup AFTER the final shape and it slays. Deepstone crypt? I use the mg, hc, and sniper. Also if you don’t know how to do a raid, you’re going to be kicked.
I think Digital Extremes is also just a better company than Bungie. Their monetization is not predatory or required, And they actually interact with their player base on a regular basis. Just tonight they had their weekly Prime Time stream and end of month will be the Dev Stream. And their streams are real and live and not carefully curated corporate talking points. Primetime can get downright unhinged and it should never be any other way(think of it like Wayne's World). Now have they made monetization mistakes at times? Yes, They are not perfect. But they did own up to it and make changes.
DE really shows that what makes for a good company isn't being perfect, but rather being totally willing to listen to customers, improve problems, and happily admit to and fix mistakes. I could not care less that every now and then something stupid happens, because I trust that they didn't do it to be malicious, and that if the community all dislike it, they will change it.
5:00 - 5:30 is not true. you can get higher power level gear by playing any activities, then when you hit the soft cap, certain weekly activities (of which there are quite a few free options)
Yeah I feel like this guy has no clue what he's talking about lmao
Warframe handles powercreep better because the affects are felt more in the floor than the ceiling.
If the best weapons already oneshot most enemies, applying some new damage buff isn't really going to feel any more powerful. Whereas on bottom of the barrel weapons, that boost in damage significantly increases their viability in higher level content.
We saw this massively with the armor/health rework, where the meta largely remained the same, but many B/C tier weapons began performing at steelpath level with minimal investment
The main problem I have with destiny and its power creep is that, whenever an new DLC comes out I would usually do everything I needed to do to get to the point that I needed, but then I’d hit a brick wall and can’t progress further, reason being for me to get stronger I’d have to do high end nightfalls and raids, both of which I can’t do because I don’t have friends that play and no random person is gonna want to play with an inexperienced person in a raid, or high difficulty nightfall, so the two biggest activities, I can’t participate in, that’s why when I started playing warframe in 2020 I never looked back at destiny, because everything in warframe I could do, either solo or in a random squad, and also because the game actually made me feel like all my time I spent levelling up my mods and getting prime weapons were actually worth it and could see the damage difference compared to destiny where I never saw a huge difference in damage
That’s because there’s different level caps. Soft, hard, pinnacle. Maybe try doing endgame content…
@ didn’t you read my comment, I said can’t do endgame content because I don’t have friends who play the game and no random person is gonna want to have a inexperienced person doing raids or high difficulty nightfalls
@lewisriding3137 Well that's just a skill issue. Hell even in beyond light as a new light I was able to just throw myself out there and ask for help in raids with a shitty mic.
And I beat those raids with those five other teamates. Were they hard? Yes, but each clear I got with another group of randoms made the raid easier until I was blowing right past them through understanding the mechanics, teaching those who don't know and then coordinating other people when they struggled.
Also, use the LFG system. It was introduced last year and it's fantastic. Literally just put up a post for what you want to do and you'll eventually get some people to help you so long as you communicate that you're less experienced. It's not that hard.
I just started warframe and I already learned how to spam melee and dashes at the same time while moving and learned that it can help me move at super speeds while hitting and destroying every enemy in my path, making me an anime swordsman lmao
Warframe Power Creep: Oh you think your strong, farm for another 1000 hours to get this new mod/arcane that makes you even stronger against these new enemies we made purposely strong, have fun!
Destiny Power Creep: Oh that one weapon and exotic combo is a bit too strong, here is an entire sandbox change making everything you own weaker, and every play style you like worse. Now grind for 1000 hours to try and get this new gun which isn't any better than what you own, oh btw the loot tables are bugged so fuck you waste your time.
Power creep in Warframe is almost circumstantial because of mods and how certain weapons can sygergize with specific Warframes and play styles.
There old weapons that make comebacks due to new mods or updates, and often times you can make similar builds that are still very effective.
5:48 no offense but you’re not entirely qualified to make this vid. Light level is not tied directly to dlc anymore. Light level is kinda minor compared to other forms of power creep because instead new guns are essentially mini exotics compared to old guns. There are major reasons why your overall argument is still pretty much correct but if you haven’t played d2 in a while it has changed a lot for better and worse.
The mod system really is the best, I don't think I would try to use half the weapons I got at a higher level if I had to dedicate a bunch of time to each individual weapon rather than a catalyst and some forma. Not to mention the new mods that lock stats create really interesting ways to build
warframe raised my games standards and ruined micro transaction hellscape slop like diablo 4 for me forever, and couldn’t be happier about it
In Warframe, I actually have a literal "from the tutorial" gun that i use in modern content.
The first point you made deems the whole video pointless since you don't understand what's causing the power creep in Destiny 2. The new power level is not the cause since you can increase the power level of old items.
The actual cause is better perks on newer items, which is not something very common tbh. Most of the time better perks are going to show up on items acquired from raids and dungeons, which is the hardest content the game has to offer. So "good rewards for good challenges" is not a bad thing at all. I'm still using weapons dropped two years ago in a raid.
Bungie also do perk refreshes for old raid weapons so they can match the power of new items.
Saying Warframe handles power creep better than Destiny 2 is just wrong. Warframe's content update has no hard content most of the time so there's not much power creep. But the other side of the same coin is that there's not much player power progression. So they have to constantly pump out horizontal content with similar difficulty to keep the players entertained. Once you reach a point where you have most of the items, new items might not be as interesting to you anymore since you have guns like Torid already. Stagnant meta is also very bad for the game.
Warframe: If everything is broken, nothing is
Thats an... incredible line :3
Ok ima see myself out
warframe's progression system is the best I've ever experienced in terms of making even the first weapons you get viable at end game. Ive never seen this before, and you don't have to grind for a ton of time on some sub optimal weapon, you can bring your leveled mods to any gun you have space for them. It's such a good system. and I love the fact that you can piecemeal make a build and pcik and choose the bonuses you want on everything. It's a more in depth system than I've ever experienced including complicated games like ARK where there are basically correct answers for everything
In Destiny 2, you pay 60 dollars per year to do 7% of a Bosses health bar per hit.
In Warframe, you pay in hours played to be able to 1 shot every single boss all at once.
Case closed.
So you like easy games then?
@Jaffamuncher21 Yes. It helps me have a better relationship with the people I live with.
@@Jaffamuncher21 difficultly is when bullet sponge, the more bullet spongy the more difficult it is, and if its really difficult, its endgame.
The thing that i like most about warframe is that if you see something that can be exploited 9/10 times the game isn't afraid to let you exploit it
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Destiny 2.
1.) Weapons don't become obsolete season after season, especially when those jumps are only 10 levels. People still use weapons from years ago because they're still good weapons, the power level has literally nothing to do with it.
2.) Upgrade modules are a lot more useful for power leveling than you're letting on. Just find an item with a higher power level that you don't want, and infuse it to the weapon you do, and then bam, power level is good.
3.) You don't need to buy the latest DLC to increase your power level, every player's power level cap increases with each season/expansion.
4.) FIreteam power is a thing now, meaning if your power level is super low for an activity, if one member of your fireteam has a higher power level, your power level increases 5 levels below it.
5.) Power level has literally nothing to do with regulating power creept because that's not what it's supposed to do, so your premise for your entire video is just wrong.
6.) It's called power level, not light level.
I don't know how you managed to make this video while being so wrong, but I hope you conduct better research into these topics before you make videos on them.
The light level of a piece of equipment is completely irrelevant. You can make any piece of gear any lightlevel by simply stealing the light level of one and destroying it. Thats trivial because ALL drops you get in the new season drop at your current average light level. For comparison, that would be like sacrificing a mk1-braton to make anything from the previous season max level, if the mk1 had no crafting requirements or time investment, just 15,000 credits. If you did play Destiny, you had to have been 10 not to figure that out.
I literally mentioned how you can sacrifice items in the video 😔 🙂
Most of his points against destiny aren't even accurate and I see him and comments saying you need to do the new raid to raise your power level or nobody will play with you lol The last time I remember that being a thing was like early Destiny 1, now if Warframe players want to talk about a decade ago, Warframe was barely a game back then.
@ After a whole rant saying "It doesnt matter what the actual qualities or perks of the weapon are, your FORCED to play with whatever the highest light level gear you have, or play sub-optimally". Then you act like sacrificing a piece of gear is a big deal when you can stand outside an enemy spawn location for 5 minutes and farm half a dozen duplicates at that new light level. xD I dont even play Destiny anymore but this video comes across as a massive bash by someone who played on their older brothers playstation when they were a little kid and never touched it again.
@@Maschine_Elf also power level only matters if you play everything solo to a degree. In destiny you can never grind but if your fire team member is higher power than you it brings your power up so that you can play hard activities with them.
The first 5 mins shows that this guy has never played Destiny or is an og that doesn’t like the game anymore
Warframe is Power Creep 2: Creep Harder
Power creep in warframe isn’t as bad because it’s not locked behind a paywall AND certain things they add as power creeping can benefit the older frames
the bond mods for the companions is an example
the arcane that gives you max hp pero kill or Ability strength per max hp literally made nidus and inaros even better
How about helminth? you can be like me, someone who likes loki but dislike the decoy ability, well then use helminth and give loki Nekro’s fear so now you are an invisible warframe armor stripping everything in sight
Archon shards also made older frames work, power creep *does exist* but it doesn’t outright kill older frames or weapons especially with incarnon, prime or prisms variants
the thing about powercreep is, because of all the systems in the game, all it does now, is enhance older/weaker stuff. and we already have the ability to take pretty much any weapon and frame and do level cap with them, which means, no matter what they add from now on, its still not gonna be too op to ever be considered powercreep anymore...
I didn't know fear can armor strip, shows ya how much I play Nekros for anything other than his despoil augment
Watching your stream lately and watching this now, you're a chill guy and I'm happy I found your channel.
Eventually I'll stop missing your squad invites lol
It's very wise, what WF did. What is 'power'? The ability to realize results. What are results? Well, that can be changed. And so, what decides the most optimal 'power' route to it can change too, without taking away from what it can still be elsewhere. "Yes, you're very strong. Strength can take many forms."
If the only metric a game boils down to is damage, yes, too much of it can break it. That's a simple game.
If the results the objective asks for aren't always tied directly to *only* damage, it stops being the sole deciding metric, and thus its scope of impact isn't all-dominating. It stops *needing* to always be tightly reigned in. You can do 50 times integer overflow damage to that one or two mobs... of 40... but how will that actually impact the mission objective? You can bring your hyperjuiced mobmulcher 3000, sure, or your 7-step raindance ritual one-shot setup, but is it going to do appreciably more for progress in an Alchemy mission that's done by *picking up correct items and throwing them at an objective*, than someone else? Not really. So it's not a problem. Excessive power, overkill, just overflows into a bottomless hole of irrelevance. You can still derive dopamine from seeing such numbers, but there's no need for a nerf since it's not oppressing anyone else's ability to enjoy the game.
So I think you’re right that warframe probably handles its power creep better than D2 but you’re absolutely wrong about Light Level and Destiny 2’s power creep, light level doesn’t make gear irrelevant because you can just infuse your old gear up to your current power level by getting a stronger piece and cramming it into your older gear. No, what really gets power crept are weapon rolls/weapon archetypes. Some of the craziest weapons of the past don’t hold a candle to some of the most recent weapons dropped THIS SEASON and even then some of the new weapons are sometimes only incrementally better than a different god weapon that was dropped in the expansion.
What I like about Warframe is that Powercreep occurs (if it occurs) piece by piece. Your whole arsenal is your build: the Warframe, gun, secondary, melee and the mods equipped in all 4 of those. New mod? Get it and upgrade your favourite piece. New Warframe or weapon? Get it and put your old mods, less than a week of grind including waiting for items to craft. New game mode? Does my old build work? Is it AoE focused or Single target focus?
Rarely is there something that renders old things useless, it always feels like "new thing just dropped to make your favourite thing 5% stronger" and your monkey brain starts to think about big pp numbers
Warframe deals with power creep by ignoring it until it goes away
Once you have a mod, youve got that mod *forever*
The mods stats will never change, never degrade, youll never just lose it, you will always be able to put that much more power into *any* weapon you get in the future
Guardians become strong, Tenno are made strong. Sounds simple enough
Although I completely think Warframe outclasses Destiny 2, I do gotta say that your video brings up a lot of invalid points about Destiny 2. Your entire explanation of power creep in Destiny 2 is just wrong. While I know you said you played more Destiny 1 than 2, 2 is the more relevant game and is up to date. Destiny 2 doesn’t get its primary power creep issues from light level. They’ve been increasing lenience on light level for a long time to the point where it’s essentially gone anyway by the fact that almost all sunset weapons have been either reprised or there’s just direct upgrades nowadays. They create power creep by constantly creating direct upgrades with literally no downsides compared to past weapons that are uninteresting and don’t create variation, which is why their power creep is so bad. It’s also gotten to a point where the difference between 2 weapons is so insignificant that getting a new weapon that’s the exact same as a previous with their god rolls but has an extra 2 range and 4 reload speed makes playing the game feel like a complete chore to be optimized. While the concept of your video is right, the content is completely wrong.
I was looking for this comment because it felt like he was critiquing mmos in general with how he was discussing the light level system and not how destiny actually is in its current state.
The difference is that warframe players dont complain about it and the devs lean into it instead of trying (and failing) to fix it
I played destiny 2 since launch when i was 14 the only possible way i could afford each dlc every year was to gameshare and alternate buying each one with my friend. shit was expensive, fortunately im going clean now and ive been free from that addiction since its final dlc
Ironically the friend I Gameshared with I met on warframe and we still play it to this day
what makes me keep coming back to warframe is I still can use my favorite weapons and make it viable, warframe ENCOURAGES you to experiment with mods and weapons instead of just getting new weapons JUST to be effective and efficient.
A very long time ago, Warframe was incredibly anti-powercreep, where they had a patch that applied LoS to all abilities in retaliation to the community cheesing content. (I remember this patch was rolled back within a few days?)
Though since then - with Pablo’s tenure and surveys asking if the community would be open to power creep - Warframe has embraced it and developed content to warrant said power creep. ie, Overguard, Eximi rework, Eximi spawns, more threatening units for new factions, higher level content, and hard mode in the form of Archimedea and whatever mode they are making for 1999. (The calander buffs are insane even on SP, and makes absolutely no sense unless there is a mode that requires 1999 world buffs.)
Compared to before where they resorted to nerfing players directly by knee-capping their frames and weapons, we now see content designed to discourage problematic gameplay and power creep. As developers, DE has handled their game design incredibly well and grown significantly in the past decade…while Bungie, responded with “hold my beer” and belly flopped into an empty pool.
I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about Riven mods in this chat.
Warframe has a system where the more commonly used a weapon is, the weaker the Riven. Conversely, the less-used a weapon is, the stronger the Riven effects will be. Thus, if you have a favourite weapon that fell out of fashion due to powercreep, a Riven mod will adjust to help keep that weapon relevant! It's exceedingly rare for a Riven on an old weapon to push said weapon ahead of current meta choices. However, the point is that Warframe takes steps to ensure weapons and gear you invest long hours into farming, building, and min-maxing never lose their relevance in the overall game. Rivens are one step towards that end.
1:41 LLMs are actually extremely good at explaining terms I've noticed. I have used it on occasion to explain the nuances of a term when I'm studying, and its answer is usually very good, especially since you can ask it the meaning of a term in context which is not possible with a normal definition. They miss on occasion and you do have to prod it a bit, but they are sometimes even better than actual people at it.
Makes sense though since looking for patterns in language and stringing words together correctly is literally what its designed to do
got back into warframe after a 5 year break and was easily able to get going again! i tried D2 last year and was so lost and so much content was missing or locked so i gave up :/ missed the D2 boat
This powercreep problem that Destiny had is not unlike what we've seen in MMORPG's. As a former WoW player, I experienced it first hand. We would spend hours multiple days a week, doing the absolute toughest raids, getting fed only a tiny amount of great loot over a long period of time until at the end of the cycle you were decked in ridiculous gear and the game became trivial, while the raids were far easier due to experience and items.
Then a new expansion came out, you start leveling in the new zone and soon enough, your hard earned epic items that you've worked so hard for, get replaced by random stuff you picked up by doing the base quests and you have to start the whole cycle all over again.
I guess this system works, as many at least enjoyed doing this for some time, but it is not a fun way and certainly not an ideal way to handle this problem of needing new stuff to play for. The way Warframe handles this, is much more elegant. You need a ton of time to get the larger things going, like designing and grinding for an endgame build, or finishing all the quests, or building a large dojo. But there are always mini-taks and mini-goals that you can focus on all along the way to the larger goals, like trying to get a single weapon, warframe or mod.
In warframe, they make most of the money by selling cosmetics, item slots and saving people time. They have an amazing playerbase that actively wants to support them, due to the consumer friendly way the MMO is set up. From what I hear from Destiny, who expects their customers to pay before they even get anything in return, this is not remotely comparable.
In a way, I'm happy people are jumping ship and coming over to one of my absolute favorite games. But I'm a little sad that it is a rare bastion in a sea of snakes. Many companies do not build good relationships with their playerbase. Given the success and longevity of Warframe, I think other gaming companies should learn from DE and try to adopt many of their stronger features.
Something else Warframe does to counter power creep is the Riven system. The less used a weapon is by the general community, the greater the power it can get from a Riven, and the only reason a weapon would be less used is due to viability. So the less viable a weapon is, the more powerful its Riven will be.
TLDW: Warframe goes "fuck it we ball"
New DLC/expansions making old equipment less valuable is how most MMO's have worked for 20+ years. In WoW, I would replace my most of my endgame gear from TBC with greens and blues I received in the first few levels of questing through Wrath of the Lich King. This is not exclusive to Destiny, and it's also not necessarily a bad thing, so long as players still feel like they are receiving appropriate value for the money and time they spent on the game.
What killed my interest in Destiny was way back in Taken King, when all of my equipment's effectiveness was cut in half. In particular, I was upset that the Thorn (which had taken me years to get because of a multiplayer requirement with an advancement count that went down every time I was killed in the Crucible) was suddenly rendered worthless. All of the time and effort that I had put into the thing was rendered pointless. Once I finished the story of the update, I stopped playing altogether.
@@dustinwashburn1283while yes they did lock the weapon out of being powered up in taken king they didnt lock it out of being used. Not to mention your time spent to get thorn does not add up as the game had only been out a year at that point and if it took years your thorn would have been the one from rise of iron which could be used in all content.
@@gremlinschanges Lol. You're right. It certainly felt like years though. I was still in the Navy when the game came out, and the time I was in felt like it was forever. Add to that the fact that it was the third expansion released, I could have sworn it was several years later. That's some egg on my face.
Regardless, it did take most of my time and effort to get Thorn, only for it to be rendered effectively worthless in game. Which is a point that still stands, though I do feel slightly better about my ability in Crucible now (if worried that my ability to remember timeframes properly).
Meanwhile, anciwnt weapon named Amprex:
- "Powercreep? Yeah, I send enough power through the creep to EXPLODE THEM."
But to be fair, for every Amprex there is Exalted Blade.
I keep hoping beyond all hope we get a Tenet Amprex or Amprex Vandal or something. Maybe DE is afraid of what that would do, like how we don't have Prisma/Kuva Twin Grakatas or Kuva Ignis.
@@Foxxie0kun I mean, it would be cool to have that. But at the same time, Amprex is already a force of nature. It gets stronger with every new mod, every new buff from either new arcanes or new warframes.
It's easy to turn it into a Steel Path destoryer. Just try to understand how it works. It's a beam weapon, it has high Crit Chance. It has good Status Chance for a beam weapon. It chains on enemies on the same level that you shoot them, so you can hit multiple headshots if you hit the first target in the head. Those factors alone should be enough to tell you how to build it.
The recent updates have also shown a real trend towards mods meant to help less viable archetypes of weapons became more useful again. In particular, Jade Shadow's series of semi _ cannonade mods and the weakpoint/stealth goodness from 1999 helps to lift up old weapons and playstyles without giving so much of a leap to the new stuff as to render old stuff useless.
Not really…. Weapons from 2 years ago are DRASTICALLY outperformed by newer weapons.
how destiny handles power creep: we need to be careful, anything that becomes a bit strong must be carefully controlled
How warfrane handles power creep: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN PLEASE FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS, BECAUSE WE ARE ON THE POWER CREEP BULLET TRAIN AND WE REMOVED THE BREAKS FOR AERODYNAMICS
I think another thing that benefits Warframe is that the dedicated players? the ones most likely to buy plat? who've put thousands of hours into the game? they're playing fashion frame. like, who needs powerful weapons? Ember's heirloom skin has all the weaponry players need (an ass so large it's got its own gravitational pull). DE understands their audience. I'm a little worried about how well they understand their audience, tbh.
Once you realize Bungie only cares about your money, doesn’t value the community voice and doesn’t respect your time, you’ll never play again. Once you realize Warframe respects your time, values your feedback and doesn’t need your money, you’ll never look at any live service game the same. Warframe will actually make you enjoy playing games again and change your perspective on everything.
WF problem is that the only way for them to introduce "difficulty" is disabling your abilities so you don't oneshot everyything with broken builds. So you have your fun build to clear trash that doesn't do any damage anyway, then you get to the boss and suddenly can't use 75% of your kit so your best bet is just using some cookie cutter build and strat.
7:44 “Now let’s go dick-ride Warframe” after having just shat over ALL of Destiny is amazing
Warframe fights power creep with power creep but in a way that remains fun and doesn't ruin the game
Warframe was like this
Melee spin to win
Nerfed
Aoe weapons
Nerfed
Incarnons added
Influence added
We went in a god damn circle
I will not make a long text about that, so i keep it short:
Warframe is waaaay better than Destiny overall and it will never change.
There's two things I miss from Destiny 2, the way it felt playing with some of those guns (still salty that Hammerhead got yeeted) and the fact players could collide and push each other around. Warframe has enough going for it though that I feel no need to go back to Destiny 2.
so I'm not trying to defend Destiny 2 and their power creep, but you're going at the wrong point. Light level is honestly irrelevant in current destiny 2. You can still get to max power even if you don't own the DLC, hell you can hop in a fireteam with people that are max level and be put five levels below them right now. The true issue with powercreep in destiny 2 is that previous weapons becoming pretty much irrelevant because of the perks they drop with. Until there was a loot refresh there was no reason to do last wish or GOS besides you wanting to do it.
I think that rivens, one of the worst things for the market in general, was actually one of the better things for power creep and im glad they haven’t gone down that route multiple times of making a saturated market for things consistently. Archon shards and helminth really made frame builds unique to the person based on how they play. Sure there is a meta but you don’t need meta to do good damage and have fun. Then we get to arcanes to truly make the things shine, I cannot tell you how fun a primary crux on an Ax-52 with an overpowered wisp mote is! 120% ammo efficiency mowing down hordes of enemies is just immensely fun, and the best part is it’s intended. Is it the strongest weapon? Not by far, but it’s hilarious and makes it good in its own way for me.
one thing I always love when comparing both game devs and playerbase is that
-Destiny players are Forced to pay for the sake of keeping up with content or they literally are stuck behind the paywall as paying members get the brand new gear and power increase
-Warframe players PAY because they want the devs to keep bringing out content for everyone, the only thing that's purely paywalled is the skins made by non DE artists which is fine since DE still puts out platinum (tradable currency) quite often
9:44 the best examples of this would Incarcon forms. One of the guns you get at the start the Boltor has an incarnon form that pumps up its strength up even further if by so chance you ever want to take it out for another spin in the endgame
The best part about mods powercreeping mods is that it makes my favourite warframe/gear better
The difference in mentalities is so nice and refreshing, warframe: you could pay if you wanted to. Destiny: you will pay to continue. Haven't touched destiny since witch queen, glad it's failing and more people are starting to recognize it
Power creep is a feature for Warframe. You keep getting stronger, faster, and more advanced
Warframe has no problem with power creep simply because they leave you the ability to fight level cap enemies but they give you no quests that have enemies anywhere near the level cap. An example of this is the fact that the level of enemies in the newest update start around level 60 and go up to level 70 in standard missions (though you can get enemies of higher levels in endless missions if you stay in the mission long enough) but the level cap for enemies is level 9999. Even when you do steal path missions (basically Warframe's hard mode version) of these missions the weapons and gear we have access to are still able to take on that content with the right builds and with the right skills. I will not try to claim that all weapons in Warframe can do this content but there is a wide variety of weapons that can do it and you can earn these weapons in game without having to spend a cent of real money (in fact some of the best weapons can not be bought and must be obtained through gameplay) so it is easy enough to obtain a weapon you like that is capable of doing the content you are doing.
as a veteran of both games with over hundred days of playtime across both, i was originally gonna write a long comment explaining why despite being right in more places than not, your explanation of powercreep was poor but after seeing that you're a small and possibly relatively new creator, i won't. i will however say that warframe does indeed have powercreep; theres a reason why soma prime was meta gun i ran into in half my lobbies when i started and it currently has a use rate min the low single digits; the reason players dont notice it is because you're being balanced with steelpath and archon hunts in mind which are level 200; in comparison, normal game difficulty is about a third of that. its easier to see powercreep in weapon utility, new warframe abilities with similar functions as older ones and the fact that my sentinel fully primes enemies with an ability that ends its cooldown when i kill the enemy it made a one shot
So as somebody who used to be into Destiny, light levels never felt like the problem. Light was a vertical progression to access new content, while scaling you down so no content should lose relevance. Problem felt more like the new legendary perks and new exotics had abilities that just had better DPS. This made all the content boring to do multiplayer, since everyone is going to use the optimal stuff to finish the strike faster.
From what I could tell, Warframe has a similar issue cause that's its appeal. If you love melting things thanks to your build and bullet jumping past everything to speedrun, play Warframe. If you want a bit more challenge and enjoyment from PvE multiplayer... Honestly, never found a MMO or MMO-lite for people like me.
Reading all of these comments on WF’s power creep I couldnt agree more. Let’s just say there comes a point in every tenno’s journey that they will have achieved everything and optimized every build that the most fun parts of the game become helping baby tennos, decorating/fashion frame, or mindlessly blowing up the map while watching a movie lol
i've spent more than 200$ on warframe, don't regret a single penny, because not a single penny was NECESSARY .