Real Guns in Western Movies
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2023
- Using Real Guns in Westerns.
Thanks to historian Dan Silva for his research!
Thanks to Benny James for his bathroom safety on set. / benny.james.5249
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As a Wild West reenactor myself, I can appreciate the extreme measures we go to be safe! No one wants to be hurt for the sake of having a bit of fun!
Right!
@@ArizonaGhostriders … for live shows post production effects can’t be added
I remember the late TV actor Jon-Eric Hexum who while showing off with a blanks loaded pistol pointed the gun at his own head temple and pulled the trigger and died of the wound.
Scariest thing that has happened to me as an actor working at Rawhide, AZ in Scottsdale was having a civilian (intoxicated) with their fully loaded guns, come out into the street wanting to play "cowboy" with us. Security was able to react immediately. Thank the Lord for those guys.
I hope the Sheriff was called as well.
For the readers, in Arizona (and every state as far as I am aware) being intoxicated and in possession of firearms, and playing "cowboy" is a crime.
That sort of behavior is exactly the kind of firearms mishandling that makes fighting for the IIA right difficult.
Yeah, I've heard of that happening. Scary.
Alcohol doesn't mix with gasoline---or with gun powder.
@H Thank the Lord for the Security guys. (Not all that hard to figure out.)🙄🙄
Same rules for mideaviel tournament reenactments.
From a Belgian old west reenactor: nice video. In connection with gun safety there is an old saying with us in the army: every gun must be considered loaded.
Thank You!!
We have that in America as well, it's one of the first things they teach you when handling firearms.
COOPER SAFETY RULES
#1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded. ...
#2. Never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to kill or destroy. ...
#3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. ...
#4. Be certain of your target and what is around and behind it.
At the beginning of our (Circle D Rangers) shows, we give a bit of a safety briefing explaining the use of blanks and the inherent risk involved. One of our guys will shoot a pop can full of water at point blank range which results in a big water explosion and mangled pop can. He then tells the crowd, "If a blank can do this to a pop can, imagine what it would do to your skin." It definitely gets the point across.
Yeah, we do something similar but with no water. Usually mangles the can. Only time it didn't is when we switched to Pyrodex!
@@ArizonaGhostriders yep. Pyrodex will do that to ya.
Good stuff Santee.
Being an actor or actress in those early movies looks like it was pretty scary stuff.
I'd say they had some cojones
It is why they have a no animal harmed declaration. They would wreck horses to be realistic. They were also known to shoot a stuntman's horse without telling him it was going to happen. That was in the really early years.
Those Animal Safety Rules were not adopted until much more modern times so I imagine in many older movies there were some dangerous stunts that possibly caused harm to animals on the sets. I wonder if they kept a Vet close by during action shoots and serious stunts.
@@Aswaguespack Actually it started in 1939 after a stuntman took a horse over a cliff. The movie Jesse James staring Tyrone Powers. The label in the credits showed up much later. The blind folded horse on greased tip ramp and subsequent death in 39 really started it all.
@@57WillysCJ thanks for the info. Cool. I know that the printed “disclaimer” we expect to see in the credits for movies came along in more contemporary times. I’m nearing age 70 so i think it began during my earlier years. Thanks!
Old sets were crazy. I’ve read that the 3 stooges were made on such a low budget that they’d have to pick up the whip cream from the floor when they did pie fights and reuse it. The scary part is everything on the floor (broken glass, rocks, etc) would get picked up with it. It’s why you can see them wincing in the later shorts.
It wasn't whipped cream it was shaving cream, since whip cream doesn't hold up very well, especially around hot studio lights, but reuse likely, since they'd write and film a script contingent on what movie sets were available.
Wow....interesting.
@@doraran2138
THE BEARDED LADY
TRIED A JAR
SHE’S NOW
A FAMOUS
MOVIE STAR
BURMA SHAVE
or
IF YOU THINK
SHE LIKES
YOUR BRISTLES
WALK BARE-FOOTED
THROUGH SOME THISTLES
BURMA SHAVE
or
TO KISS
A MUG
THAT’S LIKE A CACTUS
TAKES MORE NERVE
THEN IT DOES PRACTICE
BURMA SHAVE
Another great video, Santee! I used to work in a western stunt show where you would also double as a “walk around” character. We used .357 Ruger Vaqueros and you would be surprised just how many grown adults would come up behind you and try to grab your gun in your holster trying to be funny because they thought they were “cap guns”… All I’m going to say is thank god for hammer straps.
Yeah, still happens. Now people also say things like, "You aren't going to pull an Alec Baldwin on me, are ya?"
I say, "Not exactly. I KNOW my gun has real bullets."
That usually shuts them up.
There's another trick shot that Rod Redwing was famous for. He would throw a knife at a board, draw his pistol and fire it at the same wall. The knife would then stick into the bullet hole he just shot into the wall.
When Sammy Davis Jr. had a guest appearance on "The Rifleman", he was shown to do this shot, but it was actually Rod Redwing that did it.
Yeah, Rod was crazy good!
As a Civil War reenactor, I've loaded my cap&ball revolvers with blanks by loading flour on top of the powder charge, pressing it down with either the loading lever or the cylinder pin. It stays put in the chamber, even through a battle, and burn off when firing. Nothing comes out if the muzzle but hot gasses.
Good info.
Very interesting stuff Santee! I bought some of the floral foam to make some blanks with and someday I might get around to actually doing it. The "Dust balls" for the paintball guns are pretty interesting. Thanks for the great, informative video!
Today they are much smaller than the 3:10 to Yuma version you see there.
One can never be to safe when it comes to guns - neither in movies or re-enactment. Great video Santee, Keep up the amazing work you do for all of us :) Pew - Pew :)
Thank You!
Santee: Beginning a video on his channel
T-Rex: PHOTO BOMB THE BIG CHEESE, refuses to elaborate, and leaves.
Santee: Oh, he's getting shot at, clearly.
T-Rex: I'm outa here!
He skinned the smokewagon, now he’s seeing what happens
@@Hades8103 yes!
i used to be a civil war reenactor. i remember thousands of reenactors making their own blanks for battle reenactments. what a trip! and real black powder smoke covering the fields!
It's a sight for sure.
I watched a Civil War renacatment for the movie Gettesburg, whereas, a row of cannons were fired in succesion as a Officer on the horse road by waving his sword. One cannon jumped the gun and nearly hit the horse in the ass broadside. That horse took off and carried on at much greater speed!
The shirt I ordered was great! I recommend everyone getting their Arizona Ghostriders merch!
Thank You!
Thank you for the nifty presentation and wearing genuine clothing and not cute Hollyweird stuff. Lafayette Escadrille combat pilot William Wellman was the director bloke who hated the fake bullet hits and had a shooter with a .45 caliber Tommy Gun shoot at J. Cagney after he turned the corner. Very pleased to learn of the aftermath of the incident. I love W. Wellman's movies - they are well written and sensibly presented. As a combat hardguy he didn't tolerate interfering Suits on set. He knocked out one who wouldn't leave the set. A dear friend who was a featured player in films was an Apache (N'de or Tiende) named Gilberto Escandon was ex-Marine sniper seconded to the CIA as an assassin in post-French Vietnam as one of the no longer secret "500" developed PTSD after 162 successful missions into Cambodia, North Vietnam, and China was ablr to tolerate movie shot hit "squibs" during filming. He also supported other native stunt men into the film business. I believe the first film to cast all "Indian" roles with real natives was "Ulzana 's Raid" in which he also acted. One of the natives I believe was a Mexican Azteca. He also explained that despite the movie's ending the actual raid was successful. He helped rear dozens of kids. I affectionately referred to him as Father of Many. He passed from Agent Orange at the VA hospital in Tucson where I still live. There are many other stories film cast members can share. Heartfelt thanks to Santee for opening the door to behind the camera lore. Santee and his compadres are a welcome source of authentic info. Does this Possee have public events? Would be cool to listen to their lore in person.
Thank you for the extra info and kind words. We sometimes do street shows, but it's been a bit due to health issues in our group.
I forget which actor told this story, but he said he was filming a movie in Europe about 50 years ago and the scene called for him and his leading lady to cross a river while being shot at. Imagine his shock when bullets started splashing the water around them. The French director was firing a pistol loaded with live ammo to add realism to the scene. In the 1931movie "Little Caesar" an actor was paid to run ahead of a Thompson submachine gun being fired right behind him with live ammo. Supposedly, "Birth of a Nation" (1915) used real cannon and cannon balls in the battle scenes. On more than one occasion an actor or extra was accidentally killed when live ammo was used in a movie scene because of this cavalier attitude. Ah, the good old days.
Yes, Birth of a Nation was all real ammo. Scary times!
Great episode as always. You really hit the mark. You loaded the information and aimed to be accurate. You reached your target audience with no cheap shots made about past events, just mere mention. Classy all the way. Interesting on how they used live ammo in some of the old movies.
HAHAH! Good puns. Glad the video triggered them.
Haha You're punny! 🤣
Another great video, Santee 👍
Thank You!
In 1984 Jon-Erik Hexum Hexum bored with extensive filming jokingly put a prop revolver to his temple and pulled the trigger. The gun fired, and the wadding from the blank cartridge shattered his skull.
He underwent extensive surgery but died a few days later. He was 26.
We shoot a coke can before live shows so people can see that blanks can be very dangerous.
Hexum's family started a big anti-gun campaign as a result. As is often the case, he died due to his own ignorance or lack of common sense.
@@elultimo102 and lack of health and safety measures. Don't turn this into a anti gun or pro gun thing.
@@ArizonaGhostriders how far away from can you shoot the coke can?
@@dimitriostsiganis ---That was not my purpose. It was the fault of the armorer, who didn't have full charge of all weapons on the set. It may also have been yet another instance of "stupid is, as stupid does."
Good morning Arizona Ghost Riders. I can remember never hearing about any fatal for accidental shooting on any of John Wayne's movies or Clint Eastwood movies involving guns. Guns are not toys guns are you serious tool to be used properly. I myself am a gun collector and enjoy collecting and shooting. Stacy Arizona Ghost Riders.
Thanks!
Another great episode! How about one on the great Colt 1860 Army pistol?
I will!
YIKES, that required a great deal of trust! That was very interesting, as always, Santee. (I love the video clips, dialog(ue), and sounds you insert.) Three cheers for Jimmy Cagney.🎉🎉🎉👏🤠
Thank You!
I thinks it’s cool that they brought a trick shooter on
A bunch of times. Great job to have, right?
@@ArizonaGhostriders do they still do that in your experience, or is it all CGI now
Lots of interesting infos Santee! Thank you! You just forgot to mention the safest way of doing things: just pointing you finger and go "pew-pew!"
Yes!
Guns were not the only problem in the early days of movies. There was a silent movie where the actor had to stand on an ice floe in a fast moving river. They shot the scene but before the actor could get off the ice he was swept away down river. They never did find his body.
WOW!
Not just guns. In the Errol Flynn version of Robin Hood, arrows (minus the arrowheads) were shot at actors playing the bad guys. They had a bamboo plate and padding to stop the arrow and make them stick, but they were actually shot at (there was no whip-panning or CGI trickery here!).
Right!
Wow, great episode. I never knew they used live ammunition in some of the old movies. Great job Santee.
JT
Thank You!
Santee, Very interesting stuff. Thank you very much. You and your family have a beautiful and blessed weekend.
You as well.
I would love a video on Melee Weapons in the old west. I know people couldn't have always used their guns in close quarters!
OK!
Jane Russel sported some real guns in the movie "The Outlaw"...
OK!
And she didn't keep 'em in the ''Holster'' either.
Yep, and they let the scumbag go free of charges even though the FBI stated that there was nothing wrong with the pistol that he said fired all by itself. He still pulled the hammer back and pointed the pistol at the director of photography. And there was still no answer for how live rounds made it onto the set. He is the executive producer for the film, and was responsible for hiring an inexperienced armorer. But, there will never be any other charges since his were dismissed with prejudice. You’ve got to love the justice system nowadays.
Lotta mistakes on that film set. He was just in the mix of them.
@@ArizonaGhostriders yep!
Arizona GHOSTRIDERS & coffee ☕
Yes!
Thanks again Santee & Co. I've never been on a film shooting set , but I was once caught on film during a training episode when US Navy SEAL Team Six ' Red Cell ' assaulted my Navy base in Yokosuka Japan . Red Cell and MP training team players were armed with unloaded weapons . I was an MP live watch stander armed with a 12 gauge pump shotgun and live buckshot rounds . I dismounted my patrol vehicle to watch a training scenario . A SEAL came up to me with an unloaded pistol and shouted Bang Bang ! I told him I was hot and loaded . He asked me to play dead for the camera , so I obliged . The footage was so faked that it was edited out of the final cut .
Too bad it was edited out!
Those early actors really had some brass.
Yup
Thanks for a really important and informative video Santee! A lot of people don't understand just how important an attentive armorer is on any set (or in real life)! Not to mention first aid on the set! Ever hear of anyone needing their eyes flushed out for being too close to the impact of one of those dust balls? I do know that they sting if you get hit with them ( as seen in a blooper reel). Anyway, thanks again!
Funny you should say that! I got dust in my eye from one of those two years ago in a movie shootout.
I didn't know they used live ammo back in the day. Amazing more people weren't hurt.
Yup
Always important to remember that mitigating accidents and risks is why sets should hire professionals with lots of experience, not always the cheapest option but definitely the safest
Correct!
There's a special feature on the Hatfields and McCoys DVD where they talk about the language barrier between the crew and the European extras. While the armorer is giving a safety speech to an extra holding a loaded revolver someone else walks right in front of him and the extra pulls the trigger. The guy walking by flinches and grabs his back but keeps walking.
I'll have to watch that.
Awesome content Santee!! I had no clue that real ammo was used back in the day. Arizona Ghostriders NEVER fails to deliver!!!! See yall on down the trail.🤠
Thank You!
That was a bang up video Santee pew pew amigo!!!
Thank You!
Thanks Santee for keeping the Old West alive 😊
You're welcome
Compliments on this most educational presentation done in an entertaining way.
Thank You!
A great show. I'm from the UK, where, as you know, gun control is very tight (basically restricted to the armed forces, a small section of the police force and, naturally, criminals), and getting tight er all the time. Since I've done a bit aof clay shooting, I do know about gun safety. Your vid is excellent, but, safety is only is good as the people involved. There is a super UA-cam of a gunshop (US) which has a massive sweet jar full of live ammo removed from the guns of customers who entered the shop SWEARING their firearm was unloaded. Thanks as always. Always funny, always informative.
Great points!
I did WW 2 re Enactments and safety was strict. Every event had a safety briefing. I was so paranoid I didn't even own live 8mm mauser ammo for fear of it getting mixed in. Can't be too safe ya know.
Wow!
GOOD VIDEO ON A VERY SORE SUBJECT IN TODAY WORLD. AS SOMEONE WHO CARRY A SCAR FROM A BLANK SINCE 72,I THANK YOU.TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS
Ouch! You're welcome for the vid.
Your videos about the old west and the movie west always entertain and inform. Many thanks. You have rekindled my love of the western saga and the old cowboys from the 30's & 40"s have become my favorites.
Thanks!
Thank you, great Video as always!!! 😍 And soo cool those dust balls!! 😍
Thank You!
Happy earth day Santee
Thank You! You as well
I remember in Lone Survivor they used rubber guns to film a lot of the scenes where they were continually rolling down the mountain.
Yeah! One guy in an episode of High Chaparral told me he held a stick that acted as a rifle because they didn't have enough. He was far enough in the background that nobody would notice, I assume.
Thank you Santee for what you said , you can never be to safe ....GREAT JOB !
Thank you, Darin!
Very interesting to hear. So glad you covered this
Thank You!
Great video! Once in the opera, "Tosca" in the early 1900s the actor/singer playing Mario was shot by a blank firing squad. One of the paper wads cut his femoral artery and he bleed to death on stage as the show went on. The rest of the cast had no idea there was a problem. Also, great to meet you last week!
That's pretty darn tragic! Yes, it was great to meet you, too! Thanks. Hope you all had fun at the Tango!
Winchester’s pro shooter Herb Parsons was shooting a Winchester Model 71, introduced in 1935, in caliber .348 Winchester, which is a real thumper. Quite a trick!!
Apparently not that hard for him!
Good for Cagney. Great explanation for the use of real firearms. Cheers my friend.
Thank You!
I'm just here for the Baldwin comments...
Great video Santee!
HAHA!
Love this video. I have a 1871 ranger 2, a 1877 lightning, and 1865 sw model 1
ENVY!!!
thanks for the great content Santee! , and keeping up to current events. ........
Thank You!
Great to know in this day and age with questions being asked about blanks and live ammo
Yes
I have always been curious of the subject. Great info santee
Thank You!
I saw the making of that scene with Cagney. The Browning was using blanks and the live fire was with a 1927 Thompson smg off camera to the left on a raised platform. The bullets most likely ricoched more away from Cagney than if fired from below the films maching gun in the window.
Yeah...but in a later movie (Taxi!) he almost got plugged, which is why he put his foot down.
THANKS
OK!
Another awesome video!!! ❤
Thank You!
Great episode and info Santee! Brandon Lee and John Erik Hexum come to mind!!
Yes
Excellent Santee! Safety is always the biggest issue when using firearms wether reenacting, movies, or live shooting. Thanks for all the great information! Have a great weekend!
Yep. The old thing "safety first" isn't enough, it's "safety always", safety isn't a checklist item.
Thanks much, Timothy!
When I was reenacting, ALL gun boxes, belts, pockets, etc. were searched before anyone loaded up for a show. If you didn't like it, you didn't play. If any live ammo was found, you were sent back to your car, then re inspected.
@@danrichmond8979 Yep, that's kind of what they do today. At a large event you're inspected by an armorer designated at the entrance to the performance area.
We use a wax bullet in cowboy fast draw with a 209 primer.
Yes.
Thank you pard for another good video. I appreciate you.
You're welcome!
Great info on safety. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome.
Another great video Santee!
Thank You!
Never knew that James Cagney was instrumental in starting the safety with guns. I wouldn't want to be shot at either. Another great episode thanks 🤠🤠
You're welcome.
There was absolutely no excuse for what happened on the movie set in question. The safety protocols were there, but they simply weren't followed because those responsible weren't doing their jobs. I agree that simply using fake prop guns is a poor solution because there are still other things that can injure or kill actors regardless.
I would have made this video regardless of the incident. Many people prior to it were surprised we use real guns in movies.
It was fun meeting you yesterday at Old Tucson. You did a fine job as a tour guide
Thank you very much! Pleasure to meet you.
Way cool episode . Thanks for sharing this. It’s timely stuff for sure.
You're welcome!
I am always pleased to see other models of guns show up. Not everyone in the west used a Colt Single-Action or a Winchester 1873...especially before they were actually introduced...
Yes
Very interesting story Santee thank you so much for sharing.
You're welcome
Bangin' video ya dirty rapscallion. Great info as usual and amazing facts.
You never cease to amaze and satisfy. Thanks Santee.
Much appreciated you bearded paranormal genius.
Very Entertaining video. Nice to see how things are done!
Thank You!
I was just at a hunting and sports shop and they had a few Colt 45s there on display. They look BEAUTIFUL. Super cool video Santee. 👍👍👍
Thank You!
Im a 11 boy from Sweden that loves history mostly wild west and you remind me of my gradpa he the one that made me love history
Thank You!
Thanks as usual. Great interesting Arizona Ghostriders video Santee like the safety part. This is a good point explaining blanks used in skits vs how real bullets used in movie. I always wondered if they placed small explosive to look like bullets did it.
I've not seen the ones that spark up close though. Maybe one day
That hit the mark. Keep them coming 🤠 👍
Thank You!
I'm the head of safety at my job and this makes my butt clench.
Well, just don't use your butt to hold a firearm and you'll be ok!
Great insight. Happy Trails
Thank You!
Great video- not only were those real bullets in "The Public Enemy," when Cagney's character's brother punched him, that was real and Cagney broke a tooth. He carried on with the scene. A miscalculation of distance is what it was.
Interesting stuff in those days.
Thanks Santee, I have wondered about some of these things. Well done. Enjoy your weekend.
Awesome!
Very informative video. It's very true that blanks can be dangerous if not used properly.
Stay safe out there, and take it easy man.
Thank You!
Thank you for another great video
You're welcome
Rexy must have run into Teddy Roosevelt there...
People get scared and start shooting at him. To date, everyone has had lousy aim.
Undoubtedly, we don't use live rounds for our mock train robbery, but we do use real guns. The main reasons are cost, build quality, appearance, reliability, durability, & authentic shooting portrayal. We have non-firing replicas if someone wants to do the robbery with us.
Thanks for the validation and for keeping it all alive, Mitch!
Great episode thanks for the info.
You're welcome
I think more people were more, if not comfortable, at least familiar with guns back in the day, so actors wouldn’t do stupid things like pointing a gun at someone, even if they thought it was unloaded, and people didn’t ask "why do we need real guns!?"
Right
Nice! Question: Have you ever done a video on “Weird guns of the west?
Yes! Funny Firearms
Being a part time actor, a couple of movies I was in used real guns, one was a 303 rifle with a filed off firing pin, still scary standing next to the bloke holding it.
Yeah? Well, you get used to it eventually.
Hay santee, you know the Western heritage award you should get one
Awww, thanks!
@@ArizonaGhostriders you deserve it
@@joshuabarnett3639 Very nice of you to say.
The issue isn't real firearms on set.
It's real ammo that's the issue.
Agreed.
Didn't Cecil B DeMille once say that he wanted to load up the guns of the actors on one of his movies so he wouldn't have to pay for so many extras? Hence the Waco Kid's assertion that he'd killed more people than the famous director.
Maybe!
the horror stories out of early hollywood, no wonder so many actors banned together to demand a bunch of changes like safety standards and better treatment for animals.
Yeah!
Thanks for the video great video
You're welcome
Wow! Very interesting stuff as always. Thanks Santee!
You're welcome
Well done Santee! Thanks for making it clear that the safest way on set is to be aware and think clearly. At least that is the message I got. Sadly the most experience that actors get with firearms is from their own movies and have no real knowledge of how to handle a potentially dangerous tool. . Just like a lot of Americans.
Thanks! Appreciate it.
Your hyberbole with "Just like a lot of Americans" is probably gonna get you into a huge discussion here. LOL!
@@ArizonaGhostriders I aims to please. I am a 70 year old Marine with some life experience who thrives on confrontation! Remember Billy the Kid's words from Young Guns 2? "You Gotta Test Yourself Everyday Gentlemen, once you stop Testing Yourself you get slow and when that happens they Kill Ya" If I don't test myself I will get old. Oh to have lived in the days of The Kid! See ya on down the trail. Now, why does that sound familiar?
@@Snuffy03 Seems I've heard it before. Thanks for your service. My Dad was a Marine (Brigadier Gen.) and served in WWII. I salute you.
@@ArizonaGhostriders Thanks
Excellent video!
Thank You!