Inline 6 and V6 engines please especially if you can include the diesel ones as well would be sick 🔥🔥 Also love every tier list video you make love it ❤️🔥
Will do, will probably have to divide them into US, Euro, and JDM though because there are so many more. Thank you I’m glad to hear that, I appreciate the support!
@running2redline These engine teir list videos have got me hooked! Now I can't stop watching all your videos. Lol But anyways it would be amazing to see you rank inline 4 cylinders too. Some the most versatile engines to ever exist in my opinion. I mean what hasn't gotten k swapped?
honestly this is a really great tier list. my only disagreement is that the Columbo should be in S. its longevity, motorsport success, and soulful nature make an all time great engine for me
Agreed. If nothing else, it’s the engine that made Ferrari a legend on the road and on the track, and a worldwide icon. I’ve driven an F140 car - 812 GTS - man, was that sweet! 😊
Yeah…. Until you listen to a Lamparedi and it doesn’t matter how good the Colombo is because the Lamparedi is just pure sex 😂😂😂 Jokes aside though it’s funny how the one that is objectively better is actually the more laidback/more simplistic engine of the two (considering the Lamparedi engine was an F1 engine first and foremost).
From a Physics standpoint, a V12 is the optimal engine, for multiple reasons. The biggest being that they are essentially 2 i6 glued together. The i6 has the unique property of eliminating vibrations down to the 3rd degree. Now with another well balanced i6 cylinder bank, you get additional potential, to eliminate even more fringe vibrations. BMW was famous for this with their 1990's 750i V12, you can find videos of them with a cup of water placed on top of them. 0 Vibrations, absolute perfection.
The V12 is my favorite engine. For decades it has had gated and almost unrealized potential. Most street V12s were just grocery getters, even though logic would dictate that more cylinders = more power. Each year they have consistently gotten more and more powerful and more impressive sounding, like it was a looming threat over the horizon the whole time.
The reason the GM engine made such a relatively small hp figure is found in the other numbers: displacement and torque. A big engine like that can't rev very high - piston speeds get too fast - and they're tuned for torque. Low horsepower with high torque means it makes peak power well-below the 5252 constant in the torque-hp equation. Likely around 2200 rpm, much like a diesel. Speaking of which, GM did build one other road-going V12 - the famous 12V71 Buzzin' Dozen diesel.
It’s just that American engineers aren’t good enough in making decent engine. Till date who uses a 6.2L v8 in gm cars like ct5 and the Escalade. I think it’s an American thing. It’s sporty that way. The dodge viper uses a 7L v10. Bmw in-line six and Mercedes 4 cylinder are doing great and Toyota just smashed the game with there 3 cylinders
@@paganizondasroadster1660 Or that they simply found a way that works using existing V8 designs they already had for the last 60 years with modifications to make just as much horsepower as these V12's or more while still having much better low end torque as well.
Because America is less affected by silly displacement regulations and taxes. When something like a 6.2 LS3 is physically smaller and lighter than almost all NA 4.0 DOHC V8s, while making more power everywhere in the rpm range and getting similar or better fuel economy, who really cares about hp per liter? 🤔 If that doesn't make them decent then I dont know what does @@paganizondasroadster1660
Absolutely fantastic work on this vid! good rankings on the engines too can't really disagree on any of the placing happy to have recommended a list like this! I actually learned a lot on variations I didn't know extended that long or were related
Really pleased to hear that, the support is greatly appreciated. I learned a lot myself making this and agree there are some pretty cool lineages going on here. Thanks for watching.
@running2redline not surprising that jaguars first V12 was the actual only good one, no wonder I found so many of the gorgeous sedans for so cheap And always so many unicorn engines out there to explore
I would be really interested in the 5-cyl. Those are really special engines and had some fantastic historic examples and I think they all could fit in one video
@@running2redline I will sure wait for that. I mean, I owned 3 of those. First an audi, then two volvos. Especially the D5 engine is a beast and every mechanic at volvo I spoke to is in tears seeing those replaced by the v4
Aero engines are another story. Big power yes but you can't really fit them into a car (at least not into any car that isn't built bespoke around the engine and is even remotely usable on the road). Those Rolls Royce V12s weight not far from a ton wet.
@@BigUrielthere’s a guy in the UK back in the 80s who put a Merlin in a car, still exists and runs today, in fact I think it was up for sale last year, it’s a monster!!
I would like to see where would the cosworth 4.0l gma v12 be ranked in this list. I know it’s used on a mclaren f1 derivative and the t33 but i’m curious
What I need to add to my "5 CYLINDER NEXT" comment is that I really enjoy these videos and appreciate the work that went into it👍 I hope you will get more recognition for every new video you make Also take your time for every new tier list video
Thanks that means a lot, greatly appreciate the support! I’ll keep them coming for sure with more car reviews mixed in. Looking forward to continuing the series.
I had a BMW 850 with the M70. Poor exhaust port design and low compression hobbles its power output. Runs on cheap gas though. As you stated, twin everything makes troubleshooting harder, especially now with 30 year old electronics. When they are running right they are a blast to drive with a midrange like no other. Smooth as glass. BMW should have gone with the M8 motor design with DOHC.
I am curious why you don’t use sound clips in the tier lists videos, seems like a very important element when it comes to ICEs and would make the videos a lot more enjoyable. Also, subbed for the quality content.
Mainly copyright issues from using others audio clips. I’ve wanted to do it for awhile but haven’t yet found a workaround. Thanks for the sub, welcome to the channel!
Ah man, you had me the whole video until you put the Colombo & F50 in A-tier 🤦 borderline blasphemy. The F50 engine was the first V12 in existence where a company (was insane enough) said "take that F1 engine, and tame it down till it's somehow legal for road use".. Even if the F50 fell short, ferrari easily made the greatest road going v12 of the era. That engine deserves a tier entirely of its own.
I’ll take one tier off on one engine for sure lol. I agree the F50 probably should’ve been higher for the F1 tech and impact it had on future V12 development. Hope you still enjoyed the video, I appreciate you watching!
Both the Colombo and Lampredi V12 had actually been used in F1 before, and were later adapted for Ferraris Road cars. While the Supercharged 1.5L Colombo F1 engine proved unsuccessful, it was the Lampredi engine which would give Ferrari their first ever F1 race win in 1951 in naturally aspirated 4.5L guise, and would also dominate the 1952 and 1953 F1 seasons scaled down into a 2.0L I4.
When I have my unit to store my collection of weird cars. I want a cl600 just to straight pipe it and rev it up ever now and again. Not even that fussed about driving it.
Excellent video! I'll have to return if you do any on inline 6 cyl engines (Any configuration as I doubt a V6/I6 video would be very long). This is the first video I've found on your channel and I've just seen the V8 list in recommended so I'm definitely subscribing :)
Thanks for the sub, I really appreciate that and welcome you to the channel! Funny enough I’m working on a German I6 video right now which should release next Friday. Wanted to get more in there but will have to split it up because there are so many. Will definitely circle back to V8s too!
I would be interested in a two stroke tier list including the few 2 stroke auto engines and slightly more common 2 stroke motorcycle tier list. I feel like the topic doesn’t get talked about much considering most of us are not old enough to remember any of them when they were new.
I can certainly agree, it’s just all relative when they’re being compared to some of the all time greatest engines. Like most engines good maintenance will make nearly anything reliable. Hope you still enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
Would definitely like to see an I-4 and a V6 Tier list, although we know there's certainly a lot of those to go through; might have to break them up by geographic region of manufacture. Love this and definitely subscribing!!
I know its not as “mainstream” as these brands, but cosworth engines are amazing, and the v12 i was specifically thinking of is the one in the Gordon Murray T.50/T.50s
I’m thinking for the more common engines (V6,I6,I4,etc) to split them into US, Euro, and JDM to make it more digestible. Good to hear you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
I really appreciate the support and suggestion! I would love to add sound but haven’t yet figured out a workaround to do so without copyright infringement.
Another awesome video 👍🍻 The S70 and M70 share the same block. Paul Roush (being the genius he was) evolved the M70 into the S70 and unlocked its full potential. Without the M70 the S70 would not exist. As a result the S70 set the foundation for every BMW engine created after especially the M engines (the S54 I6, S85 V10 and S65 V8). The S54 as a result went on to give birth to the M54 I6 (according to BMW of North America) they say it arguably the greatest engine BMW ever built. Really amazing the way one engine gave birth to such epic ones. Its extremely sad the BMW has since officially retired all V12 production.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the video! That’s some interesting info, I was unaware of Roush’s involvement with the S70 and agree it’s neat how they create their successors. BMW is certainly one for the best at improving upon previous technology and I hope you bring back a V12 somehow in the future
@@running2redline Its in Gordon Murrays book Driving Ambition. He mentions how he initially approached Honda for the engine but they pulled out of the project, stating it was impossible as Murray asked for a detuned F1 engine. Isuzu was ready to answer the call but Murray passee on their offer because he wanted manufacturer with racing lineage. He was friends with Paul at BMW Paul initially modified the M70 and presented it Murray but he said it was way off basis. So he sat down with the BMW engineers and told them to weigh every bolt, only use 1 washer instead if 2 when 1 will do, basically obsess over weight savings. Murray even said they didnt need to put a flywheel on the engine and the engineers looked at him in shock lol. The book has some funny stories in it. Me too, I hope BMW changes their minds and resumes V12s.
It is not true, the 1GZ has a completely different design and shares little to none of the features of the 1JZ, it has different bore and stroke, different rod lengths, different head and cam design, the 1GZ is a decent engine but a good platform to make power it is not.
Ik a lot of people have said "where x, and why no y" and stuff, you can't please everyone, but what is your opinion on the 7.7 Speed 12 engine? I know there wasn't a lot of information about it, as far as productikn numbers and stuff goes.
There are different 6.0 versions. The XJR-s 6.0 has Zytek injection. The later ones I believe Denso injection and ingnition. And even from those two the ones in the XJS gas a distributor system and the ones in the XJ 6.0 x300 had Denso coil packs. I have the last one (XJ) and never had any problems. The XJR-S 6.0 with Zytek do have the same bore stroke but everything elso including the cast and cranck is different. Also the cooling capacity and I believe even the cooling volume around the cilinder in the latter increases per cilinder as we progress from front towards the rear cilinders.
FYI - There were NO good Jaguar V12s. The early ones made a bit more power than the venerable XK 6cyl, but weghted more and had terrible overheating problems, especially in the E-type (the XJ sedans and coupes were better, but still not good). The injected engines were better than the early carbureted ones, but still not good...and had the added hazard of a fuel line coming loose in the high-pressure injection system and burning the car to the ground. And, yes, I DO know: I was a Jaguar dealer! I had a Toyota Century in New Zealand for several years and it was, hands down, the finest luxury car I've ever owned (and I've owned a version or two of ALL of them). Absolutely smooth and silent and nothing EVER broke on it...and the fit/fnish made a Rolls or Mercedes look crude by comparison. I really liked the early Lambos; they made the then-current Ferraris seem pedestrian. 2-cam Ferraris are my all-time favorite engines, and I still have 2 330s, a GTC and a special-bodied 2+2. By the way, your photo accompanying the Lampredi description should really be of a 12cyl not a 4cyl. The Lampredi and Jano engines were strtictly for racing and were for their day quite strong, but had constant ignition troubles and an indifferent reliability compared with the 2-cam Colombo motors. I can't speak about the more recent Ferrari V-12s, as I have no interet in the newer cars. Plus, my last experience with a Ferrari dealer was just a disaster and I'm too old to put up with such bullshit!
Thanks for the extra perspective, this is super insightful and I appreciate you sharing! The lampredi picture was a silly mistake I made at roughly 2am lol. It also sounds like your century ownership was incredible, they surely are reliable and unique. Seems like you had plenty of experience in the world of V12s, great stuff!
Dealer competence was always a problem for Jaguar in the USA. I think Jaguar seriously underestimated just what a low capacity for learning the average American mechanic had. If it wasn't an iron pushrod V8 with a carburettor, the American mechanics were lost.
It's strange how when I was watching this I thought the Jaguar 5.3 HE and the 6.0 both scored a category too high. In reality, you got the respective lineup correct. Even though I own an M73 and refuse to admit its flaws, great video. Looking forward to more content.
I think you did great and I completely agree with your ranking except for the F130B: I really think it deserves the upper class, because not only it has all the great specs and characteristics you mentioned, but it is also the only production V12 derived from an F1 engine, the Tipo 036 used in the Ferrari 641. I believe that this fact makes it even more special, enough to let it be in the S tier. Cheers!
I think the e-type was iconic well before the V12 came along. And the HE V12 was well liked because it meant you could travel successfully between petrol stations.
So I think you should do a global section of the tier list because there’s some crazy v8s to come out of the uk and Australia that I can think of right now. I’m pretty sure there’s cool i4 or v6s there as well
Cool video, just started following. Minor details were wrong regarding m120 engine. The SL70 and SL73 r129's were all based on M120 engine instead of M297. 7055cc pushing 496hp & 720 Nm and 7.3 525hp to my knowledge.
Probably around A-S tier considering it’s similarity to the XJR-9 racing engine, which was a major success seeing as it won Le Mans. Thanks for watching!
I am looking for a v12 that could be swapped into a moped (not joking), prefably something lower displacement, still makes good power, is relatively cheap and with good tuning potential, what would you recommend.
The Toyota century engine no doubt. Good luck fitting it but that sounds like an awesome project. The century V12 will be the cheapest by a long margin and is tuned conservative as is
Understandable, I am just a random dude on the internet though, so if you enjoy it that’s all that really matters! It’s definitely a great platform and opened the door to the legendary McLaren F1 engine, thanks for watching and enjoy your V12 while we still have them.
The thing not mentioned about the Jaguar V12s is that their all the same block design and said block will bore/stroke to ~12L of displacement, it's got a lot of extra metal and may be part of the overheating issues (the extra metal holding heat)
Am surprised the latest 6.0 is the worst after 20 yrs of "improvements" & no stricking 1970's BL "worker" in sight.. Any difference in overheating between XJ-S sports cars which were designed to take the V-12 from day 1 while the 6.0 had to be shoehorned into the new-ish sedan which had inline 6s for most of its life
im a jaguar mechanic (classic and vintage) and everything you said is basically true, its a shame due what the v12 can do once played with. like in thier race cars. but youre talking about production cars, so i get it. also etype v12 is the best sounding v12 for "minimal" money.
I know this video is probably only aimed at automotive engines, but .... but .... The Rolls Royce Merlin/Meteor is arguably the GOAT V12 engine.. Plus some clever modders have put it into cars.
I didn’t even know that was a thing. Saw some Mercedes tank engines when researching but a 27L engine is wild. Thanks for the info, that seems crazy in a car!
Re. the Jaguar V12, you've used the US Market performance figures which were strangled by 70s & 80s technology emissions control stuff. The HE engine produced 295bhp in non-US markets in 1981. It's a myth that they're "ultra complex" - particularly in the company of the other engines here. They're incredibly simple, but suffered from being too cheap and bought/run by people with no money and had no business driving a V12. Overheating outside the US market is rare, and it's really incredibly rare to drop valve seats outside the USA. In the USA you had the problem of extremely limited mechanical/servicing competence in a country that relied upon carburettors and pushrods on the basis that fuel was so cheap it was virtually free, and many simply weren't maintained - with common practises such as just filling the coolant system with water rather than glycol and all the internal corrosion and radiator blockages you got as a result of that. I think if you're going to be kind to Mercedes and say their engines were fine if maintained properly, you shouldn't malign the Jaguar V12 for the negligence of their owners and incompetence of American market mechanics. Additional details include the original carburetted E-Type installation having an underdeveloped cooling circuit, which was extensively redesigned for the XJ-S. The original pre-HE XJ-S engine was fine apart from the Lucas OPUS ignition which wasn't reliable. The Lucas ignition and original fuel injection was all replaced for the original HE engine in 1981, but replaced again in 1988.5 for Magnetti Marelli ignition which did away with the need for vacuum advance. The final 6.0 engine used Ford/Denso ignition and fuel injection and in Europe these are, contrary to your suggestions, considered very trouble-free.
Stuck to road legal production vehicles as it’s hard to compare them with many racing engines that are less regulated. Perhaps a separate video on those would be good. Thanks for watching.
Inline 6 and V6 engines please especially if you can include the diesel ones as well would be sick 🔥🔥 Also love every tier list video you make love it ❤️🔥
Will do, will probably have to divide them into US, Euro, and JDM though because there are so many more. Thank you I’m glad to hear that, I appreciate the support!
@running2redline These engine teir list videos have got me hooked! Now I can't stop watching all your videos. Lol
But anyways it would be amazing to see you rank inline 4 cylinders too. Some the most versatile engines to ever exist in my opinion. I mean what hasn't gotten k swapped?
Happy you’re enjoying them! I4 is on my queue list, looking forward to engines like the K24 and 4G63 for sure.
GM 3800 Series II gonna be an easy S tier
Seperate videos for diesel/petrol otherwise it would be too much for one vid
And seperate v6/i6 imo
honestly this is a really great tier list. my only disagreement is that the Columbo should be in S. its longevity, motorsport success, and soulful nature make an all time great engine for me
In hindsight I’d have to agree, it’s amazing that it ran for that long!
Agreed. If nothing else, it’s the engine that made Ferrari a legend on the road and on the track, and a worldwide icon. I’ve driven an F140 car - 812 GTS - man, was that sweet! 😊
I believe the Colombo deserved the S-tier.
That’s definitely justified, for that time period it was just so far ahead!
@@running2redlineNot to mention that it dominated sports car racing from ~1950 to 1965
Yeah…. Until you listen to a Lamparedi and it doesn’t matter how good the Colombo is because the Lamparedi is just pure sex 😂😂😂 Jokes aside though it’s funny how the one that is objectively better is actually the more laidback/more simplistic engine of the two (considering the Lamparedi engine was an F1 engine first and foremost).
@@griffins750Same reason why the GM V8 LS engines are the go to for a lot of tuners.
Great video! What about the Cosworth V12 in the GMA T50?
Glad you enjoyed! I think that would be an easy S tier, a redline over 12,000rpm is nuts.
From a Physics standpoint, a V12 is the optimal engine, for multiple reasons. The biggest being that they are essentially 2 i6 glued together.
The i6 has the unique property of eliminating vibrations down to the 3rd degree. Now with another well balanced i6 cylinder bank, you get additional potential, to eliminate even more fringe vibrations.
BMW was famous for this with their 1990's 750i V12, you can find videos of them with a cup of water placed on top of them. 0 Vibrations, absolute perfection.
this series is so good you have to do a I4, I6, V6 etc
Stoked to hear you’re enjoying it! Definitely going to continue the series with those engines and more. Thanks for the support.
What about a flat six?
The V12 is my favorite engine. For decades it has had gated and almost unrealized potential. Most street V12s were just grocery getters, even though logic would dictate that more cylinders = more power. Each year they have consistently gotten more and more powerful and more impressive sounding, like it was a looming threat over the horizon the whole time.
Looks like quite an exhaustive analysis, thanks a lot.
Tried to fit in as much info as I possibly could, I appreciate that!
The reason the GM engine made such a relatively small hp figure is found in the other numbers: displacement and torque. A big engine like that can't rev very high - piston speeds get too fast - and they're tuned for torque. Low horsepower with high torque means it makes peak power well-below the 5252 constant in the torque-hp equation. Likely around 2200 rpm, much like a diesel. Speaking of which, GM did build one other road-going V12 - the famous 12V71 Buzzin' Dozen diesel.
It’s just that American engineers aren’t good enough in making decent engine. Till date who uses a 6.2L v8 in gm cars like ct5 and the Escalade.
I think it’s an American thing. It’s sporty that way. The dodge viper uses a 7L v10. Bmw in-line six and Mercedes 4 cylinder are doing great and Toyota just smashed the game with there 3 cylinders
@@paganizondasroadster1660 Or that they simply found a way that works using existing V8 designs they already had for the last 60 years with modifications to make just as much horsepower as these V12's or more while still having much better low end torque as well.
@@paganizondasroadster1660 the viper has never been made with less than 8 liters of displacement
Because America is less affected by silly displacement regulations and taxes. When something like a 6.2 LS3 is physically smaller and lighter than almost all NA 4.0 DOHC V8s, while making more power everywhere in the rpm range and getting similar or better fuel economy, who really cares about hp per liter? 🤔 If that doesn't make them decent then I dont know what does @@paganizondasroadster1660
@@paganizondasroadster1660or we don’t like 4 and 3 cylinder engines that can’t even make it over 100,000 miles
Fun fact about the GMC Thunder V12, it is actually 2 GMC 305ci V6s bolted together making a 702ci V12 hence why it was also called the Twin Six.
same as the n74 being 2 n54s bolted together
Absolutely fantastic work on this vid!
good rankings on the engines too can't really disagree on any of the placing happy to have recommended a list like this!
I actually learned a lot on variations I didn't know extended that long or were related
Really pleased to hear that, the support is greatly appreciated. I learned a lot myself making this and agree there are some pretty cool lineages going on here. Thanks for watching.
@running2redline not surprising that jaguars first V12 was the actual only good one, no wonder I found so many of the gorgeous sedans for so cheap
And always so many unicorn engines out there to explore
There should definitely be a diesel list for both pickups and truck/commercial use
Why only for pickups and trucks? Outside USA - where 85% of the world is - you can find all sorts of diesel engines in ordornary cars.
Maybe my favorite V12 -Cosworth V12 making 654 hp at 11,500 rpm
V10s because every single one is legendary.
ua-cam.com/video/PSYm0Q4Lf9E/v-deo.htmlsi=9Fk4xZuIqvKB8K4r
Enjoy!
I would like to note that BMW put the McLaren F1 engine (S70/2) inside a BMW X5.
Didn’t know that, but now I want one! That sounds wild
I would be really interested in the 5-cyl. Those are really special engines and had some fantastic historic examples and I think they all could fit in one video
ofc subscribed and liked. Can't wait what is to come
Thank you a ton for the support, much appreciated and a 5 cylinder video will have to happen!
@@running2redline I will sure wait for that. I mean, I owned 3 of those. First an audi, then two volvos. Especially the D5 engine is a beast and every mechanic at volvo I spoke to is in tears seeing those replaced by the v4
The 5 banger tier list would be awesome! Audi, Volvo, VW petrols and diesels, Mercedes diesels...
There was also the American LaFrace gas V12 and there's a whole slew of diesel V12s from CAT to DD. Great video though! Love me some V12s!
Glad you enjoyed, they surely are very special engines!
This is such an amazing video. One of the best automotive videos out there. You deserve huge appreciation for this.
Really appreciate that! Looking forward to continuing the series, it’s been fun to make them.
I feel it important to say that Jaguar are the only car manufacturer to mass produce a V12 engine.
I really hope your channel blows up from these vids. They’re great.
I really appreciate that! I’ll keep this series alive as long as people enjoy it, having a great time making them.
Would have really appreciated something on Gordon Murray’s latest Cosworth V12, no flywheel 12k rpms right? Congrats on the video
Yes that engine would’ve been S tier, my bad there.
1) Rolls Royce R - powered multiple world speed record aircraft, cars and boats. 2) Rolls Royce Merlin - the sound of freedom!
The Merlin is wild to me, 27L of madness!
I was about to comment this
Aero engines are another story. Big power yes but you can't really fit them into a car (at least not into any car that isn't built bespoke around the engine and is even remotely usable on the road).
Those Rolls Royce V12s weight not far from a ton wet.
@@BigUrielthere’s a guy in the UK back in the 80s who put a Merlin in a car, still exists and runs today, in fact I think it was up for sale last year, it’s a monster!!
Great job very thorough.
Happy to hear that, trying to get really detailed. Thanks for watching as always and welcome back!
I would ask for a 16-cylinder tier list, but the video would be very short.
make it a youtube shorts video
I would like to see where would the cosworth 4.0l gma v12 be ranked in this list. I know it’s used on a mclaren f1 derivative and the t33 but i’m curious
Most likely high A or S tier. It’s an absolute masterpiece.
What I need to add to my "5 CYLINDER NEXT" comment is that I really enjoy these videos and appreciate the work that went into it👍 I hope you will get more recognition for every new video you make
Also take your time for every new tier list video
Thanks that means a lot, greatly appreciate the support! I’ll keep them coming for sure with more car reviews mixed in. Looking forward to continuing the series.
finally. 🔥
one could possibly mention the w12 , anyway great job!
Glad you enjoyed!
aww darn it! I was hoping to see the Rolls Royce Meteor and the Kharkiv model V-2 on the list, then you said road legal 🤣
Very good video. Puts into historical context all those marvellous engines.
I appreciate that! I’m trying to make them information packed while remaining digestible.
I had a BMW 850 with the M70. Poor exhaust port design and low compression hobbles its power output. Runs on cheap gas though. As you stated, twin everything makes troubleshooting harder, especially now with 30 year old electronics. When they are running right they are a blast to drive with a midrange like no other. Smooth as glass. BMW should have gone with the M8 motor design with DOHC.
This is such a smll but solid page , what great content 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Much appreciated!
TVR actually made a 7.7 liter v12 that is found in the Serbra speed 12
*Cerbera
Enjoyed this. Thanks for your time putting it together.
The support is much appreciated!
Make a 5 cilinder tierlist!
Great idea, I’ve added it to my queue, such unique engines!
Great content. I have an M70 BMW V12 and you're spot on. It was a great place to start! Everyone should experience a 12 cylinder!❤
Glad you enjoyed, and that must be heaps of fun, sounds incredible!
@running2redline I have a 91 E31 manual 850i and they might have to bury me in it when I go! Great content my friend.
V12s are fun and games untill you have to work on them...
@@markszekeres7214real
I am curious why you don’t use sound clips in the tier lists videos, seems like a very important element when it comes to ICEs and would make the videos a lot more enjoyable.
Also, subbed for the quality content.
Mainly copyright issues from using others audio clips. I’ve wanted to do it for awhile but haven’t yet found a workaround. Thanks for the sub, welcome to the channel!
Ah man, you had me the whole video until you put the Colombo & F50 in A-tier 🤦 borderline blasphemy. The F50 engine was the first V12 in existence where a company (was insane enough) said "take that F1 engine, and tame it down till it's somehow legal for road use"..
Even if the F50 fell short, ferrari easily made the greatest road going v12 of the era.
That engine deserves a tier entirely of its own.
I’ll take one tier off on one engine for sure lol. I agree the F50 probably should’ve been higher for the F1 tech and impact it had on future V12 development. Hope you still enjoyed the video, I appreciate you watching!
Both the Colombo and Lampredi V12 had actually been used in F1 before, and were later adapted for Ferraris Road cars. While the Supercharged 1.5L Colombo F1 engine proved unsuccessful, it was the Lampredi engine which would give Ferrari their first ever F1 race win in 1951 in naturally aspirated 4.5L guise, and would also dominate the 1952 and 1953 F1 seasons scaled down into a 2.0L I4.
Dope video. Recommendation: add a sound byte for each engine!🤝🏼
I would love to but unfortunately it would be a copyright infringement to use others sound clips. Glad you enjoyed and I appreciate the suggestion!
the one from the huayra r made by mercedesamg is so godly
You have great taste! That’s my personal favorite sounding engine of all time
I would love to see 6 cylinder video u make great videos with detail delivery
Probably doing V6 next! I appreciate the support
the early lambo v12s made almost 100 hp/l in the 60s. Immediate S tier for all until the countach 5.2, A tier because it was not a massive upgrade
imo colombo and m120 easily in S tier but other than that, we really have almost identical list well done!
Fair enough, I appreciate the support!
M120 is awesome if you don't have to work on it! I know from experience! M137 is horrendous.... if you like burning money buy a S600 👍👍
When I have my unit to store my collection of weird cars.
I want a cl600 just to straight pipe it and rev it up ever now and again. Not even that fussed about driving it.
Excellent video! I'll have to return if you do any on inline 6 cyl engines (Any configuration as I doubt a V6/I6 video would be very long). This is the first video I've found on your channel and I've just seen the V8 list in recommended so I'm definitely subscribing :)
Thanks for the sub, I really appreciate that and welcome you to the channel! Funny enough I’m working on a German I6 video right now which should release next Friday. Wanted to get more in there but will have to split it up because there are so many. Will definitely circle back to V8s too!
Nearly 100hp/liter in 1966 deserves more than B tier IMO
Well you are getting a sub. Great work ❤
I really appreciate that, welcome to the channel!
I would be interested in a two stroke tier list including the few 2 stroke auto engines and slightly more common 2 stroke motorcycle tier list. I feel like the topic doesn’t get talked about much considering most of us are not old enough to remember any of them when they were new.
The Jaguar engines were actually great. I think you over blow the problems. You have to actually do maintenance on them.
I can certainly agree, it’s just all relative when they’re being compared to some of the all time greatest engines. Like most engines good maintenance will make nearly anything reliable. Hope you still enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
S-tier channel
I appreciate that, thanks for watching
Mercedes v12 especially the m120 is the best sounding engine i have ever heard
Super cool that you’ve owned one, such great engines!
What about the Apollo Intensa Emozione/ Prototype De Tomaso P72 engine,V12 N/A 6.3
I only did production vehicles here, but I’d be hard pressed to keep any of those (definitely the P72) out of S tier.
Would definitely like to see an I-4 and a V6 Tier list, although we know there's certainly a lot of those to go through; might have to break them up by geographic region of manufacture. Love this and definitely subscribing!!
That’s my exact plan, looking forward to those. I’m glad you enjoyed and appreciate the sub, welcome to the channel!
I know its not as “mainstream” as these brands, but cosworth engines are amazing, and the v12 i was specifically thinking of is the one in the Gordon Murray T.50/T.50s
S tier for sure, I missed that one. Thanks for watching!
Lamborghini v12 engines especially the aventador and the revuelto do deserve the s tier
4 cyl diesel bout to be his longest video ever. I enjoyed this one
I’m thinking for the more common engines (V6,I6,I4,etc) to split them into US, Euro, and JDM to make it more digestible. Good to hear you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
Would love an I6 tier list! Great vid
Will do, I appreciate the support!
I have been watching/listening to all your videos lately. Should definitley try to add sound clips
I really appreciate the support and suggestion! I would love to add sound but haven’t yet figured out a workaround to do so without copyright infringement.
M120 and M297 🐐
Good work!
M279 is the best v12 ever. Especially tuned. Power monster and more reliable then its m275 brother
Another awesome video 👍🍻 The S70 and M70 share the same block. Paul Roush (being the genius he was) evolved the M70 into the S70 and unlocked its full potential. Without the M70 the S70 would not exist. As a result the S70 set the foundation for every BMW engine created after especially the M engines (the S54 I6, S85 V10 and S65 V8). The S54 as a result went on to give birth to the M54 I6 (according to BMW of North America) they say it arguably the greatest engine BMW ever built. Really amazing the way one engine gave birth to such epic ones. Its extremely sad the BMW has since officially retired all V12 production.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the video! That’s some interesting info, I was unaware of Roush’s involvement with the S70 and agree it’s neat how they create their successors. BMW is certainly one for the best at improving upon previous technology and I hope you bring back a V12 somehow in the future
@@running2redline Its in Gordon Murrays book Driving Ambition. He mentions how he initially approached Honda for the engine but they pulled out of the project, stating it was impossible as Murray asked for a detuned F1 engine. Isuzu was ready to answer the call but Murray passee on their offer because he wanted manufacturer with racing lineage. He was friends with Paul at BMW Paul initially modified the M70 and presented it Murray but he said it was way off basis. So he sat down with the BMW engineers and told them to weigh every bolt, only use 1 washer instead if 2 when 1 will do, basically obsess over weight savings. Murray even said they didnt need to put a flywheel on the engine and the engineers looked at him in shock lol.
The book has some funny stories in it. Me too, I hope BMW changes their minds and resumes V12s.
I’m definitely gonna go buy that book
Aw man, I was hoping you'd mention that the 1GZ was basically 2 1JZ engines mated as one alloy block. Either way, awesome video!
True, probably should’ve included that. I appreciate the support, thanks for watching!
It isnt, this is a myth
It is not true, the 1GZ has a completely different design and shares little to none of the features of the 1JZ, it has different bore and stroke, different rod lengths, different head and cam design, the 1GZ is a decent engine but a good platform to make power it is not.
@@inarius9080where do you get that idea from? they can handle 1200hp and 10000rpm reliably with forged conrods and pistons, both na and boosted
@@inarius9080the gz having nothing to do with the jz is absolutely true, bottom end is somewhat based off the uz afaik but the rest is its own thing
This is great!
Suggestion: T-50's Cozzy V12? Interested in your thoughts on that one and where you'd place it on your chart.
S tier, glad you enjoyed!
Gran trabajo 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. Resumen muy detallado y completo.
Ik a lot of people have said "where x, and why no y" and stuff, you can't please everyone, but what is your opinion on the 7.7 Speed 12 engine? I know there wasn't a lot of information about it, as far as productikn numbers and stuff goes.
I think I would’ve put it in S for how ridiculous the application is. The power to weight ratio it creates is mental!
V12 is pure Love!
But imho the Jag 6.0 should be rated better, its not that bad.
If your going for a high performance engine, take the pre HE heads.
There are different 6.0 versions. The XJR-s 6.0 has Zytek injection. The later ones I believe Denso injection and ingnition. And even from those two the ones in the XJS gas a distributor system and the ones in the XJ 6.0 x300 had Denso coil packs. I have the last one (XJ) and never had any problems. The XJR-S 6.0 with Zytek do have the same bore stroke but everything elso including the cast and cranck is different. Also the cooling capacity and I believe even the cooling volume around the cilinder in the latter increases per cilinder as we progress from front towards the rear cilinders.
Fun fact...There was a road legal Rolls Royce fitted with a Rolls Royce Merlin V12 from a Supermarine Spitfire fighter of WW2.
What about the v12 in the valkyrie
It’s there in the S tier, it’s the RA Cosworth.
FYI - There were NO good Jaguar V12s. The early ones made a bit more power than the venerable XK 6cyl, but weghted more and had terrible overheating problems, especially in the E-type (the XJ sedans and coupes were better, but still not good). The injected engines were better than the early carbureted ones, but still not good...and had the added hazard of a fuel line coming loose in the high-pressure injection system and burning the car to the ground. And, yes, I DO know: I was a Jaguar dealer!
I had a Toyota Century in New Zealand for several years and it was, hands down, the finest luxury car I've ever owned (and I've owned a version or two of ALL of them). Absolutely smooth and silent and nothing EVER broke on it...and the fit/fnish made a Rolls or Mercedes look crude by comparison.
I really liked the early Lambos; they made the then-current Ferraris seem pedestrian.
2-cam Ferraris are my all-time favorite engines, and I still have 2 330s, a GTC and a special-bodied 2+2. By the way, your photo accompanying the Lampredi description should really be of a 12cyl not a 4cyl. The Lampredi and Jano engines were strtictly for racing and were for their day quite strong, but had constant ignition troubles and an indifferent reliability compared with the 2-cam Colombo motors. I can't speak about the more recent Ferrari V-12s, as I have no interet in the newer cars. Plus, my last experience with a Ferrari dealer was just a disaster and I'm too old to put up with such bullshit!
Thanks for the extra perspective, this is super insightful and I appreciate you sharing! The lampredi picture was a silly mistake I made at roughly 2am lol. It also sounds like your century ownership was incredible, they surely are reliable and unique. Seems like you had plenty of experience in the world of V12s, great stuff!
Dealer competence was always a problem for Jaguar in the USA. I think Jaguar seriously underestimated just what a low capacity for learning the average American mechanic had. If it wasn't an iron pushrod V8 with a carburettor, the American mechanics were lost.
It's strange how when I was watching this I thought the Jaguar 5.3 HE and the 6.0 both scored a category too high. In reality, you got the respective lineup correct. Even though I own an M73 and refuse to admit its flaws, great video. Looking forward to more content.
I appreciate the support!
Great video , do more tier lists and your viewers will increase ❤️
Glad you enjoyed, I plan on continuing the series as long as people enjoy it!
Just so you know TDI can also mean Turbo diesel injection, I got this fact from my dad anyways haha great vid man
Interesting info, I’m glad you enjoyed the video!
"... it's own genre of music..." Great line.
I think you did great and I completely agree with your ranking except for the F130B: I really think it deserves the upper class, because not only it has all the great specs and characteristics you mentioned, but it is also the only production V12 derived from an F1 engine, the Tipo 036 used in the Ferrari 641. I believe that this fact makes it even more special, enough to let it be in the S tier. Cheers!
That’s a really good point and I think you’re right on that. Thanks for watching!
Pierce-Arrow? Auburn Lycoming 391-ci V-12?
I think the e-type was iconic well before the V12 came along. And the HE V12 was well liked because it meant you could travel successfully between petrol stations.
S+ tier for valkyrie the F1 engine and the enzo🎯🎯
I’m not a big Audi fan but a v12 tdi
Makes a proud lol of my m57
Where is the GMA T.50 Cosworth?
Missed that, we all know where that belongs though!
Would love to see a v6 tier list🔥🔥
That’s coming next! Likely doing JDM V6, then Euro, then US because there are so many.
@@running2redline i say do v6s 250hp and up
@@AJ_C300losing a variety of j series v6s as well as the 1mz would be a pretty bif loss.
M275 ❤
So I think you should do a global section of the tier list because there’s some crazy v8s to come out of the uk and Australia that I can think of right now. I’m pretty sure there’s cool i4 or v6s there as well
Cool video, just started following. Minor details were wrong regarding m120 engine. The SL70 and SL73 r129's were all based on M120 engine instead of M297. 7055cc pushing 496hp & 720 Nm and 7.3 525hp to my knowledge.
Thank you for the correction and glad you liked the video!
Where would you have put the 7 litre v12 found in the lister storm road car
Probably around A-S tier considering it’s similarity to the XJR-9 racing engine, which was a major success seeing as it won Le Mans. Thanks for watching!
maybe a full teir list of all engines so far against eachother? alot to ask tho
I like that idea a lot, once I finish the series I might circle around and do something like that. Thanks for the suggestion!
The most beautiful 23 minutes of my life, thanks❤
Glad you enjoyed, I appreciate the support!
TDI is turbo diesel intercooled no?
I am looking for a v12 that could be swapped into a moped (not joking), prefably something lower displacement, still makes good power, is relatively cheap and with good tuning potential, what would you recommend.
The Toyota century engine no doubt. Good luck fitting it but that sounds like an awesome project. The century V12 will be the cheapest by a long margin and is tuned conservative as is
@running2redline thanks mate ill have a look about for an engine
As an M70 Owner, seeing it in C Tier hurts 😢
Understandable, I am just a random dude on the internet though, so if you enjoy it that’s all that really matters! It’s definitely a great platform and opened the door to the legendary McLaren F1 engine, thanks for watching and enjoy your V12 while we still have them.
Actually I had a m70 too and I’d was one of the most boring engines I’ve ever had.
D Tier tbh
The Valkyrie’s RA engine makes 1000 hp. Not 1139. The rest of the power comes from an electric motor.
The thing not mentioned about the Jaguar V12s is that their all the same block design and said block will bore/stroke to ~12L of displacement, it's got a lot of extra metal and may be part of the overheating issues (the extra metal holding heat)
Great point, thank you!
Am surprised the latest 6.0 is the worst after 20 yrs of "improvements" & no stricking 1970's BL "worker" in sight..
Any difference in overheating between XJ-S sports cars which were designed to take the V-12 from day 1 while the 6.0 had to be shoehorned into the new-ish sedan which had inline 6s for most of its life
im a jaguar mechanic (classic and vintage) and everything you said is basically true, its a shame due what the v12 can do once played with. like in thier race cars.
but youre talking about production cars, so i get it.
also etype v12 is the best sounding v12 for "minimal" money.
Thanks for your perspective, that must be pretty cool! Their racing V12s were definitely incredible in racing application I agree.
A diesel engine list would be very interesting
Agreed, might have to do it!
The ferrari colombo v12 from the 250gto and 250lm is goated in my opinion, without that engine we wouldn't have the gt40 to beat it
I know this video is probably only aimed at automotive engines, but .... but .... The Rolls Royce Merlin/Meteor is arguably the GOAT V12 engine.. Plus some clever modders have put it into cars.
The V2 is also very good engine aswell
I didn’t even know that was a thing. Saw some Mercedes tank engines when researching but a 27L engine is wild. Thanks for the info, that seems crazy in a car!
Re. the Jaguar V12, you've used the US Market performance figures which were strangled by 70s & 80s technology emissions control stuff. The HE engine produced 295bhp in non-US markets in 1981. It's a myth that they're "ultra complex" - particularly in the company of the other engines here. They're incredibly simple, but suffered from being too cheap and bought/run by people with no money and had no business driving a V12. Overheating outside the US market is rare, and it's really incredibly rare to drop valve seats outside the USA. In the USA you had the problem of extremely limited mechanical/servicing competence in a country that relied upon carburettors and pushrods on the basis that fuel was so cheap it was virtually free, and many simply weren't maintained - with common practises such as just filling the coolant system with water rather than glycol and all the internal corrosion and radiator blockages you got as a result of that. I think if you're going to be kind to Mercedes and say their engines were fine if maintained properly, you shouldn't malign the Jaguar V12 for the negligence of their owners and incompetence of American market mechanics. Additional details include the original carburetted E-Type installation having an underdeveloped cooling circuit, which was extensively redesigned for the XJ-S. The original pre-HE XJ-S engine was fine apart from the Lucas OPUS ignition which wasn't reliable. The Lucas ignition and original fuel injection was all replaced for the original HE engine in 1981, but replaced again in 1988.5 for Magnetti Marelli ignition which did away with the need for vacuum advance. The final 6.0 engine used Ford/Denso ignition and fuel injection and in Europe these are, contrary to your suggestions, considered very trouble-free.
Dude forget Audi W12 engine from the Audi category.
This is just a V12 video. I will likely make one for W engines though!
What about the Gordon Murray T50 V12?
Stuck to road legal production vehicles as it’s hard to compare them with many racing engines that are less regulated. Perhaps a separate video on those would be good. Thanks for watching.
@running2redline Sorry, apologies, I meant the T50, not T1
That I missed, so my bad there. Hope you enjoyed the video still.
@running2redline Loved it mate. Looking forward to more of these!
I hope you will also dabble into the world of bikes and its high revving engines, they’re quite the marvelous things
They certainly break my neck every time I hear one
The Colombo 250 V12 is the definitive Ferrari engine. Racing and road car history. #1